The Smiley Smile Message Board

Part 1: A Beautiful Day


Bubs:   I suppose we should start at the beginning

This Beautiful Day begins.

Bubs:   For some reason, I have an a cappella mix of this

Judd:   Wait, what. Oh wait, yeah. I think someone from SS made that and put it on Soundcloud one time

Bubs:   okay, okay, okay, okay--had to pause it before it moved on. Right. So, this is an excellent beginner. Wouldn't you agree?

Judd:   Excellent? I'm not terribly partial to it but it's nice enough. I think that final chord sounds forced

Bubs:   Oh, really? What about it don't you like?

Judd:   I guess I'm not that taken with the melody

Bubs:   all right, well, I like the idea here

Judd:   I remember you having a go at that opening line

Bubs:   well, yeah, it's stupid. But I think having Brian up in front doing something that's supposed to be a bit downcast… maybe this would have been a better closer.

Judd:   maybe

Bubs:   the arrangement is tasteful

Judd:   it starts the album very promisingly

Bubs:   I like the strings and the horn

Judd:   I like the horn, too

Bubs:   I picture rain drops on windows

Judd:   maybe I don't like it that much just because it promises a much better album

Bubs:   and there's all those full, natural sounding harmonies, and the little flute fanfare after the final chord--or maybe it's not a flute

Judd:   I like that weird sound during the fadeout-yeah. did you notice the bad edit on Brian's vocal at 1:01? I didn't notice it until someone pointed it out but once you hear it you can't unhear it

Bubs:   let me put on the headphones

Judd:    okey dokes

Bubs:   hm, forgot to plug them in. here we go again

Judd:   tch tch

Bubs:   I don't notice anything

Judd:   there's a sudden jump to a higher note

Bubs:   I guess I wasn't really thinking of that as an edit. Could be, I s'pose

Judd:   eh. So yeah, it’s ok. I don't like that final chord so much because they put all their weight on it, like "WHOOAA WEREN'T EXPECTING THAT WERE YOU." Now then, RUNAWAY DANCER




(Let me know if this is you're having trouble reading this format and/or how you'd like it to be different.)

 :lol
No probs reading that format.

You'd make a great webcast duo!

More please.

How much wine you guys drink? ;)

Part 2: Christmastime Denim


Runaway Dancer begins.

Judd:    god, that sax just blares out of nowhere

Bubs:   That is probably the most unintentionally hilarious transition I've ever heard

Judd:   I read on some review that the synths on this song sound exactly like Wonderful Christmastime, and the more I think about it, it's uncanny

Bubs:    “My feelings on this album can be summed up adequately by one exact moment on this album, and that is the transition from "This Beautiful Day" to "Runaway Dancer". One moment, I'm experiencing bliss, assured that Brian can still make beautiful music. The next, I'm hit by a train with "COMMERCIAL INTERESTS" scrawled on the front of it in neon paint.” How I’ve described it before.

Judd:   ah yes. it's a really sh*t EDM song, but to be honest I don't really mind it

Bubs:   let's be real: who's looking for a dance track from a 70 year old man?

Judd:   aye. the problem I have with most of this album is that most of the songs are just insincerely faking sincerity, but at least this one is sincerely insincere. It's just a fucking
stupid pop song

Bubs:   this has got to be the biggest wtf moment on any album I've ever listened to. The way it's structured is like two slaps in the face: it starts with that sax and some snapping, like you wandered into a bad jazz club dressed entirely in denim, and then synths start to fizzle and it all breaks loose.

Judd:   and your grandpa cranks it. I quite like the outro

Bubs: “like you wandered into a bad jazz club dressed entirely in denim” did this make sense

Judd:    I've never read a more apt description of the song. It's hard to sum up thoughts on this thing. I don't really know how I feel about it, except that for reasons I can't quite comprehend I don't hate it. I also know that it is absolutely not good. Do you have any final thoughts on Runaway Dancer

Bubs:   I want to know who's responsible

Judd:    wasn't it written in the late 90s? I suspect Joe and Brian around the time of Imagination

Bubs:    maybe the blame lies more with the guest vocalist, Sebu, and his Capital Cities song style

Judd:   I don't think he's that bad. at least, I don't think he's the entire reason this track is the twisted concoction that it is

Bubs:    I'm thinking that maybe he helped steer the song into this direction. anyway...

Judd:   who knows. to me this sounds pretty much pre-1990

Very cool. I tend to agree on the first two tracks. :)

Oh yes. Looking forward to more, guys. It's the tonic this board needs right now...

It reminds me of "The Conversation" in the NY Times, wherein Gail Collins (liberal) and Arthur Brooks (conservative) have a genial chat about politics, etc. from their respective points of view.

Part 3: The Escape Clause


Whatever Happened begins.

Bubs:    very inoffensive beginning; and middle; and the end, too

Judd:    and everything. the problem with the ballads on this album is that they do absolutely nothing to move me

Bubs:    ooh, the steely edge of pitch correction in that chorus

Judd:   at least this one is a great deal more sufferable than The Last Song. this one's not awful-- just incredibly safe.

Bubs:    no, I mean, the big harmonies are sorta cool

Judd:    it just sounds so sterile; it doesn't come to life. They add a little bit just when you think it's gonna end. I like that bit.

Bubs:   someone goes for it on the cymbals

Judd:    indeed

Bubs:    the arrangement is cool in places: I like hearing the occasional low piano notes. Isn't that bass line a rip off from something 65 or 66? the little descending one

Judd:    not sure. probably--it's got that echoey effect on it. I don't like how it's just old tricks put into bland new songs. my biggest problem with this one in particular is how it seems to be kind of a rehash of Southern California and From There to Back Again

Bubs:   I'm gonna pull up the lyrics for this one. “As the time goes by/And I wonder why/When I know the day is through.” I legitimately do not think those lines make sense. he's wondering why he knows when  the day is through...?

Judd:    what's the next part

Bubs:   “The summer wine/My favorite time/The night that I met you.” nothing

Judd:    nope

Bubs:    there's no reference; it’s just phrases put together. they seem like they go together, but they don't

Judd:    oh well. the chorus is the big emotional punch

Bubs:    "When I wake up in the morning/If I see that you're not there/If you're away I'll be OK/I know that you still care."this is basically a verse that cancels itself out. We're getting ready for the devastation: SHE'S GONE; HOW’S HE GONNA REACT. oh he's fine; okay; moving on, then

Judd:    How would you sum up that one?

Bubs:    music for a vacation spot commercial

Judd:    that's the next one

Bubs:    there are multiple vacation spots

Judd:    touché.  I'll just say that out of all the newer BB and BB-related songs, the ones about old age tend to be the best. it felt weirdly intimate and genuine on Midnight's Another Day and the last three songs on TWGMTR. but for some reason on this one it just doesn't. it feels like they've just made a formula out of it

Exhibit D: Turks in Space


On the Island begins.

Judd:   there doesn't seem to be any pitch correction on Zooey; that's nice

Bubs:   I'm still upset there's no Zooey and Brian "Let's Put Our Hearts Together"

Judd:   ikr

Bubs:   there's something seductive about her vocals on this song

Judd:   too bad she's singing lyrics for a cruise liner ad

Bubs:   why would you need a bucket of sand IF YOU'RE ON A FUCKING BEACH. I saw the music video: that whole island is just sand

Judd:   nono, they get it FROM the beach. music video is pretty good actually. I'm sure this would be nicer with better lyrics, but I just think about Busy Doin' Nothing. That's such a lovely song and this is just bland

Bubs:   wait a second--Zooey sings "no food."what?

Judd:   they live off seasalt

Bubs:   wha-... bu-... they’re gonna die

Judd:   oh come on Bubs; isn't your idea of paradise dehydration and famine

Bubs:   this is a song about people who booked a vacation, their boat crashed, and now they're trapped on an island. there's no food, there's nothing to do, and they're beginning to hallucinate tables and television

Judd:   oh yeah, wow. that never really clicked with me. this song is genius

Bubs:   A lot of this is making sense now

Judd:   I can certainly enjoy it a lot more now. good job, On the Island

Bubs:   well, I guess that's it for this song then

Judd:   I like that it just ends bleakly on "there's really no place to go;” they're never getting out

Bubs:   See? It really starts to make sense

Judd:   wow. best song on the album.

This Beautiful Day

Will:  I never pause the song.  Usually play it several times in a row before going into my track mix.  13 tracks, I'll show you some time. 

Will:  Yeah, I've got that a cappella clip too - it's still on his SoundCloud.  Have you heard his new track in the Smiler's That Make Music section?

Will:  Hey, are we gonna do the extra songs?  That would be cool.

Will:  bad edit?  I've heard it a hundred times.  Next time I will listen for it.  Or you could just play it again.

Will:  I'm ready for the rain drops.

Will:  Never follow with "Runaway Dancer"

Will:  Go to the one with the hunting horn.

You bet.

Part 3.5: The End


Half Moon Bay begins.

Judd:   this one's quite nice, isn't it. for some reason the woodblocks irritate me on Whatever Happened but they're quite nice here. quite nice

Bubs:   this song is nicely done. might have been better to stick it after "This Beautiful Day"

Judd:   it gets a bit smooth elevator jazz around the middle, but whatever. wait no, the woodblocks are irritating here too

Bubs:   I'm just noticing there's a lot of exotica touches on this album

Judd:   it's tailor-made for a cruise liner of old people

Bubs:   the beginning is really interesting

Judd:   that's one of the loveliest bits of the album. doesn't sound far off the Gershwin album, this one. yes, I don't really have any qualms with this one other than the woodblocks, which I only dislike because some negative review pointed them out and I can't avoid them now because I'm a twat. what are your thoughts

Bubs:   I'm just doing some listening to it - I'm pretty sure I just heard the sound of running water, like a faucet. that's weird

Judd:   rly? that'd be cool

Bubs:   I'll tell you exactly when

Judd:   why isn't there more of that sort of thing on this album

Bubs:   starts right at 2:22, right channel

Judd:   weird, I don't hear it. oh well

Bubs:   I think it probably goes on too long

Judd:   maybe

Bubs:   you can get the entire idea of the song by about 2 minutes in

Judd:   that's not nearly enough time for the Kenny G sax solo

Bubs:   I think this is definitely one of the better songs on the album

Judd:   absolutely

Bubs:   yeah, I was gonna say some of the moments in the solo are a bit cheesy, and nothing interesting happens with the strings

Judd:   no

Bubs:   they just play basically what you think they would

Judd:   at least it's all easy on the ears in a good way. it's calming

Bubs:   I can see mixing up a mojito and then slipping this song on, and just getting lost for a few minutes. but we have to move on at some point

Judd:   oh yes. OUR SPECIAL LOVE

Bubs:   yeah :(

More please :) Totally digging this...

OMG, favorite thread in years.

Great thread, really helps the album experience. ;D

I find that this back and forth actually sucks all the joy out of the album for me-- the two of you, between you, are able to nitpick every single weak moment. Now I won't be able to unhear the damn wood blocks!  :lol

That said, I'm enjoying reading this thread immensely.

Part 4: Knee Deep


Our Special Love begins.

Judd:   so this is pretty much the worst song on the album. intro is nice enough I guess

Bubs:   I'd just like to point out that I started the 90s boy band thing that everyone says now

Judd:   a true innovation

Bubs:   FLY AWAY. f***

Judd:   chriiist the melody is just bland as f*** and I don't like Peter Hollens' singing

Bubs:   I don't like his voice

Judd:   but it's the goshdarn beatboxing. I kinda like when he goes a bit lower in the middle there. why did it have to be Peter Hollens

Bubs:   how did they know he existed

Judd:   this isn't quite as insufferable as I remember it being, but the beatboxing and pitch correction kills it

Bubs:   The "fly away" bit is just so heinous

Judd:   the lyrics are awful but I just don't pay attention to any of them on this album really

Bubs:   it's just… boy band dreck

Judd:   ugh. on we go.

Bubs:   I just don't feel like I've thrown enough hate at OSL. I need to drown it

Judd:   oh, pardon me

Bubs:   I need it to float away in the stream of my vitriol

Judd:   *fly. it's almost 6am and I've been up since 2pm. I don't have the energy to hate it

Bubs:   to wind up somewhere in the Missouri river and pour out to sea, the bloated carcass of cheap thrills, never to be seen again

Judd:   have you got it out of your system

Bubs:   I never will.

Judd:   pft.

This might be the greatest thread ever.  ;D

Judd and I are grateful for your kind words, everyone. We didn't think anyone would even bother to read this far. :P

I'm loving it so far. :lol

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-U8CvTl9h98I/UVMdszHxqqI/AAAAAAAAFxE/qAo_sX-f9QY/s1600/3pe469.jpg)

Part 5: Participation Trophy


The Right Time begins.

Judd:   I like that organ lick that starts it off

Bubs:   bit "On the Island"-y, ain't it

Judd:   On the Island meets Lay Down Burden, except it's a bit better than the both of them

Bubs:   okay, not terrible yet… there it is

Judd:   this is the first song where the drums are too loud. I remember that being something I dislike about this album. they're just bangin in the chorus

Bubs:   pretty sure this song has "Sloop John B" references in the guitar somewhere. or maybe that's "Sail Away"

Judd:   I think that's Sail Away, yeah

Bubs:   it gets awfully close in this song

Judd:   true

Bubs:   what is that guitar part. that doesn't make sense with this song

Judd:   David Marks innit

Bubs:   it doesn't have the right tone

Judd:   I might be desensitized from all the hours of listening to this album. this one is definitely sufferable though. at least, it compares favourably to Sail Away

Bubs:   "so many times we get fooled again.” the way he sings that is bizarre. about 0:50, listen to the way he pronounces "fooled"

Judd:   yeah. sounds a bit like Panda Bear. i've been listening to a lot of panda bear. ahem, anyway

Bubs:   he's thinking forever, which is crazy

Judd:   I can forgive most of the crappy lyrics. not the most noted lyricists, the Beach Boys

Bubs:   I love love love the "for thinking it over" in the chorus. it's like we're moving backwards. at first, he's like "this is the right time for getting together forever,” and now he's like "why don't we split a bagel and talk about it"

Judd:   I'm hearing Brian more on "for thinking it over.” he must be sick of Al's sh*t

Bubs:   well, it's the same person narrative-wise, y'know

Judd:   ah yes. this is one of the "meh" songs on the album for me

Bubs:   these lyrics are all just meaningless. "Whatever happened to me and you/ And everything we've been going through/ So many pieces but never in a very straight line.” like, the second line doesn't work. whatever happened to the things we were going through? why do you sound nostalgic for troubled times? the third line tries so hard though, and, damn it, it's almost there.

Judd:   maybe it's about losing memory

Bubs:   "So many times we get fooled again/ With everything that's been happening/ Like changing places with someone/ In the back of the line/ But not this time.” who's fooling you? why are the things that are happening fooling you? what's this about going to the back of a line? what?

Judd:   he's fooled by his own memory y'see

Bubs:   you keep mentioning the things that are happening, but you suggest they're over in the first verse

Judd:   he thinks he's pushing past but he's just pushing past the same guy at the back of the line.

Bubs:   and then the whole song throws itself against a wall when he says "For getting to know her.” I THOUGHT YOU ALREADY KNEW HER. IT'S IMPLIED IN THE VERY FIRST LINE. THE FIRST ONE. HOW COULD YOU FORGET

Judd:   "getting to know her" is a daily routine because he keeps forgetting who she is. I like that it at least tries to SOUND eloquent. er, are we done with this one

Bubs:   I guess

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT READING THIS THREAD!

Part 6: Gain Strikes Again


Guess You Had to Be There begins.

Bubs:   I'm expecting a metal song or something when those drums come in

Judd:   I remember you posting on SS something like "this song is great" when it came out

Bubs:   i know. just listen to that beginning. all the little intertwining melodies, all the details, it's great

Judd:   yeah. I like the harmonies that come in on "we were sharing a new day"

Bubs:   there's some sort of tuned percussion hiding in there somewhere

Judd:   good chorus actually. maybe I didn't give this one enough credit. although that guitar on the second verse is weird

Bubs:   I do like some of the lyrics on this one, most likely due to Musgraves

Judd:   yeah, I suspect so. although the music itself doesn't exactly evoke prime to late 70s Brian

Bubs:   a lot of this song is good, a lot of the parts of songs. "people passed out on my floor.” nice job, Musgraves

Judd:   the "ooh ooh"s are really nice

Bubs:   but there's also something else about it that doesn't work. maybe the way it all comes to a screeching halt when Musgraves sings her bits

Judd:   oh yeah, that's just weird. it still sounds really clinical and soft like the rest of the album

Bubs:   it just sorta sounds like they didn't finish

Judd:   I'd like it better if it just kept building up momentum, because the first chorus especially actually sounds really joyous.  it starts really kicking into gear then it just stops a bit

Bubs:   and then more of that off-tone guitar

Judd:   yeah. even so, I like this more than I used to now

Bubs:   some of this song is good. it is. they're close with this one

Judd:   I guess I never paid much attention because it feels more like Musgraves' song than Brian's, but on its own it's good

Bubs:   if you're gonna play on a country song, please use the twang. not the gain. the twang.

Judd:   ah yes

Bubs:   I'm not sure if the last line is referring to it just being annoying or a hangover, but I hope it's the latter because I like that

Judd:   me too. so, best song on the album so far. what's next, are we doing the bonus tracks

Bubs:   yeah. oh, this one. this one is weeeeeeeeird

Judd:   not gonna lie, I love this one. but then again I've probably already said that

Bubs:   I think so that song of course being DON'T WORRY.

Judd:   woo

This is a fantastic thread.  Thank you for your reviews.

Part 7: The Polaris Brothers


Don't Worry begins.

Bubs:   disco, baby

Judd:   and as I've also already said, the horn synths on the chorus sound absolutely fucking atrocious

Bubs:   oh my god you can hear them in the intro

Judd:   they're so bad

Bubs:   they truly are

Judd:   this is the one that sounds unfinished to me. if they'd just hired some session musicians this would have been a fucking showstopper. ughhh I love the outro

Bubs:   "Don't worry.." has almost the same melody as the same part in "Don't Worry Baby" right?

Judd:   it doesn't spring to mind, honestly. to me this sounds pretty much as un-Brian as most of the other songs on the album. which is to say, rather

Bubs:   I think he reused that 3 note melody on this one, but maybe it fits naturally on those words

Judd:   aye. quite catchy, this. it's basically a less misguided Runaway Dancer

Bubs:   yeah, I was thinking of the RD similarity

Judd:   two Brian Wilson dance tracks. so yes, I really like that one. probably my personal favourite on this album

Bubs:   hm… I don't know what to say about this. like I said earlier, it's weird. I'd love to hear Brian talk about what this is

Judd:   yeah, dunno who he wrote it with. er, do we continue

Bubs:   apparently it's with Joe Thomas

Judd:   ah. might be another late 90s one

Bubs:   what were they going for? all right, you love it. I'm unconvinced, but let's move on

Judd:   I think it's just an earnest attempt at a 70s style disco song. unlike Runaway Dancer. who knows what the f*** they were trying to do with that.

Part 8: No, they did


Somewhere Quiet begins.

Bubs:   I started this one up and was like, "hey, this ain't bad.” but there's a reason for that

Judd:   yes

Bubs:   it's 50 years old

Judd:   this is the most pointless thing on the album. lyrics to Summer Means New Love? alright, what are you gonna do with it? NOTHING

Bubs:   have you read the lyrics to this? cuz that's the only thing they've done for this. so, they better not f*** that part up, right?

Judd:   let's take a looksy: “Late at night my head walks around you/ Your answers knock at my door”. that's... okay?

Bubs:   yeah, that one punches you right in the nose

Judd:   “Lost inside a deep sea of faces/ Surrounded by eyes still alone”

Bubs:   I almost like the first line, but the second line loses it

Judd:   “I found myself lost in your wonder/ Happy to be the proof”

Bubs:   PROOF OF WHAT

Judd:   actually looking over these lyrics they're quite nice

Bubs:   are you serious? “You're the answer that doesn't ask questions/ Because you're simply the truth”

Judd:   well, I mean

Bubs:   NO

Judd:   as with The Right Time at least they're TRYING to sound like they mean something, and The Right Time was much worse. that said, I still don't know why they chose Summer Means New Love

Bubs:   Once again, though, the last lines of this song just ruin it. He tries to figure out who the other person is, but then they say "I haven't figured it out, and that's why I love you". so, wait a second here, you're not concerned they could be "playing the part"? and the reason you love the person is because you can't figure them out?

Judd:   she's mysteeeerious. mysterious is sexy

Bubs:   but that's the opposite of what this song goes for the whole time. well, the coherent parts anyway--not when he's professing his love of being the truth

Judd:   oh i don't know, i should be asleep

Bubs:   NEXT SONG

This is akin to Roger Ebert and Gene Siskel youtube video reviews. I like it even if disagree with some songs, f.ex. Guess you had to be there is the dullfest. And what for this cursing? Imo reviews must be written in normal language.

While I respect your opinion and your ability to hold it, I disagree. I can't see the benefit in intentionally limiting my vocabulary. Swearing is a quick, effective means of communication, and I'm sure many would consider it to be a part of "normal language." Applying such rigid rules to writing only serves to remove creativity and freedom from the process.

Part 9: Two for Fun


I'm Feeling Sad begins.

Judd:   this is one of the highlights even though it's super fucking compressed AND THE DRUMS ARE STILL LOUD AS BALLS

Bubs:   musta been Ricky in the control booth

Judd:   ooh, good point. I'm not sure I like hearing the fingers go up and down the guitar strings... I have become prejudiced after hearing it in innumerable white guy with acoustic guitar songs. still, decent song. nice and short too

Bubs:   love the beginning. I'm not sure how well the two parts to this song work together

Judd:   I think it flows nicely enough. I like the accordion

Bubs:   it's a good song

Judd:   this is clearly one of the best songs on the album, dunno why they just dumped it on the deluxe version

Bubs:   some unfortunate lyrics

Judd:   probably

Bubs:   but some not unfortunate lyrics

Judd:   yay

Bubs:   I like when Brian does his "this is my life" songs, they always turn out well. dunno why

Judd:   eh. NEXT SONG. TELL ME WHY


Tell Me Why begins.

Bubs:   there are so many songs with this title

Judd:   I can only recall the Beatles one. I like the opening lines. "kinda good but mostly bad"

Bubs:   there's a super weird effect on Brian's voice

Judd:   I think that just comes from the pitch correction

Bubs:   like, listen to the way he pronounces "mostly"

Judd:   yeah, some weird gravelly thing going on. but that's on pretty much all his vocals here

Bubs:   I don't remember hearing it on other songs. some of the words come out strangely on this one

Judd:   god. the drums.

Bubs:   this is mostly in the vein of "Whatever Happened"

Judd:   yeah, but not as good.  kind of a non-chorus on this one. "tell me whyyyyyyyy"

Bubs:   I like the backing vocals on Al's chorus

Judd:   they're alright. it just… doesn't come to life. the ballads are just so artificial

Bubs:   there's no personality to them

Judd:   and there's no subtlety to the production. they don't really try anything, they just do the horns and strings, slap on some harmonies, then crank up the drums to avoid any listeners getting bored. and the melodies are really half-assed.

Bubs:   I think some of the lyrics here are okay, and I enjoy the horn parts. we can go to the next one

Judd:   right. one of the worst offenders, if memory serves - SAIL AWAY

Part 10: Newman Wept


Sail Away begins.

Judd:   for the record, the Sail Away on Orange Crate Art is so many million miles better

Bubs:   what's playing the intro there?

Judd:   not sure. sounds compressed as f*** though

Bubs:   it's walking along the line between synth and real instrument, defiantly sticking its tongue out at me

Judd:   godddddddddd

Bubs:   you can also hear someone hit a tambourine or similar instrument

Judd:   I'm beginning to think all these songs would be a lot better if they just TURNED DOWN THE FUCKING DRUMS, it's the sound of being smacked in the face

Bubs:   now, Judd, when you think of Blondie, what's the first thing that pops to mind?

Judd:   ooooh because it's also about sailing

Bubs:   what you think of when you think of Blondie is sailing. so, we'll just take that idea, right, and we'll take away the good song part, and it'll be fine

Judd:   it sounds a bit more like Sloop John B to me, which I realise is blasphemous to write, but whatever

Bubs:   he was the rockin' guy, now he's singing another commercial for Aruba

Judd:   ughh. I really don't like this one. another one with kind of a non-chorus

Bubs:   I have to imagine someone was like, "Hey, Blondie, you remember when you sang that song ‘Sail On, Sailor,’ right? We're gonna put you on a song called 'Sail Away' and fans will eat that sh*t up."

Judd:   it's just such an empty song

Bubs:   KEY CHANGE MOTHERFUCKER, BOOM

Judd:   ughhh

Bubs:   JUST DROPPED IT ON YA, HOW YA FEELIN NOW

Judd:   this is seriously, just… sometimes I really hate this album, it's so emotionally cold. I've felt a few times over these past few hours, like, who are we kidding

Bubs:   oh no don't give up dreaming brian. he almost gave up dreaming

Judd:    it's such dreck

Bubs:   This is so clearly a song for a cruise line. I can see people partying on the deck: they're holding multi-colored drinks, dancing and smiling, playing in the water. And an old couple are sitting on beach chairs together: we can see the ocean out in the distance in the space between the chairs, and they clink glasses

Judd:   and then it pans out to an overhead shot of the ferry

Bubs:   and then some visual effects happen, the music gets lower, the logo comes up, and someone says "Sail away with us."

Judd:   and then you hear the last bit of the song.

Bubs:   yeah

Judd:   just thinking about this album is so strenuous. it doesn't quite get to you that this is an album with Brian Wilson's name on it… it's all the problems with Brian's solo career in one song

Bubs:   this album should be called Anonymusic. I meant to type Anonymous Music from Conveyor Belt but that mistake seemed clever

Judd:   maybe it's a result of Brian being told he's a genius every day. sry, I tend to get very cynical thinking about this album

Bubs:   we've got 3 songs left on this bad boy

Judd:   it just pisses me off. he's the guy who f***ed with the formula, now he's making this turgid, worthless, safe bullcrap that no-one will think is good in a few decades' time. I WISH I COULD BLAME JOE THOMAS

Bubs:   it was not well received

Judd:   I see Sail Away singled out a lot by people

Bubs:   as the good one?

Judd:   yeah

I like don't visit the "General On Topic Discussions," and then I miss out on great threads like this.

That last post with Blondie is killing me. rofl. I probably agree with most of these (I skimmed some, sorry). I'll always enjoy "This Beautiful Day," "Whatever Happened," and "One Kind of Love"

So much truth in this… yet hilarious! Keep it up, please!

Hmm, dunno anymore - think these Hipsters have jumped the shark on this one.

Bring back Will & Will.

( :lol just jokin' - about the shark jump stuff, not about the Will & Will thing - bring back Will & Will!)

Shark? Will & Will? Is it cos I is English?

Yes, Mester Fawlty!

These reviews are great! They definitely capture a lot of my frustrations with the album in a funnier way than I could get them across. Excellent job!

How painfully true...

Part 11: And the award for worst timing goes to...


One Kind of Love begins.

Judd:   ooh, well

Bubs:   like that melody. pretty sure I've described it as "tumbling," and I still think that’s accurate

Judd:   this has a lovely melody. this could have been a stone cold classic if it didn't sound like God Only Knows wrestling with an 80s power ballad. The drums. THE DRUMS.

Bubs:   or didn't say "I could see cloud 9 CUZ I WAS SAILING OVER IT"... that line is just too much

Judd:   still, this is a definite highlight for me. I'm glad they chose it for Love & Mercy over something like The Last Song

Bubs:   it's nice that he wrote it for Melinda

Judd:   ain't it just. eugh, I don't like that quiet bit near the end when it's just him and the piano. I don't know why but it sounds really icky

Bubs:   he sorta sounds out of breath

Judd:   his singing's good though

Bubs:   I love how you can hear the violins at the end

Judd:   yeah

Bubs:   you can actually hear them being played

Judd:   oh, so you can. cute. in closing, just like the other highlights on the album this gets f***ed over by the production, but you gotta take what you can get

Bubs:   there's something angelic and pure about the piano and horn opening

Judd:   kinda recalls God Only Knows

Bubs:   yeah, a bit

Judd:   damn...  close to a home run, this one. would have fit nicely on Lucky Old Sun. I think it's a Bennett co-write, so maybe that's why

Bubs:   it is. shows, doesn't it

Judd:   he's a good collaborator. from the evidence he seems to be able to get a lot of good out of Brian

Bubs:   perhaps Scott and Joe just have different intentions

Judd:   I just want Joe out of it if it really is him behind the sound of this. The production on Lucky Old Sun was a bit lacking in subtlety but it wasn't nearly as awful as on here

Bubs:   that is a sugary-sweet album

Judd:   I would be just fine with another album of Wilson/Bennett co-writes

Bubs:   unfortunately it seems to be cover songs instead

Judd:   eh, we've only been fans for a few years. it would appear he's been advertising the rock n roll album for at least a decade

Bubs:   but it seems real now. I dunno. next song?

Judd:   they'll probably squeeze in one original. let's do it, SATURDAY NIGHT

Bubs:   penultimate track

I'm lurking over in the corner right now.   :smokin  Waiting for Judd`n' Bubs to get to my #2 - the one with the hunting horn.  It's coming up soon.

Been taking my comedy routine on the road.  Doing private parties down South.  Just got back home yesterday, do have something lined up in the Catskills.
I'll get my assistant to shoot you and John off an invite and backstage passes.

thanks for the mention,

The East Coast Echo
(voice of reason in a dark forest)

This series of threads is unmitigated bullshit.

That is exactly what these two guys are doing, bullshitting. You guys have opinions on everything else under the sun, in here, but these two guys can't have their say?

I think it's an (extremely rare nowadays) case of writing about music that's both irreverent, entertaining, AND insightful - even if you or I may not agree with the opinions.  Your mileage may vary of course, but I've enjoyed reading it.

I love NPP and disagree with the opinions but these guys are pure satirists! 8)

You have to remember Adam, that in here, you cannot say anything negative about Brian or his music. You can only do that stuff to Mike. ;)

not again......

Thanks for reading. :wave

Part 12: More Unmitigated Bullshit


Saturday Night begins.

Judd:   when I first heard this I was all like, oh yeah, this is the hit single

Bubs:   similar opening to "Guess You Had to Be There”... except worse

Judd:   Nate's got a nice voice. can't even tell if they're pitch correcting him

Bubs:   that's the peak of singing right there

Judd:   he did a few interviews were he said Brian was really cutthroat with him while he was doing vocals, in a good way. it's like, that SOUNDS like a solid hooky chorus

Bubs:   I think Kacey said something along the same lines of Brian being stern

Judd:   ah right, nice to know really. anyway, I don't know what it is about this song. I might have heard it too many times, but it doesn't quite come to life for me, even though I've always told myself that's a solid chorus

Bubs:   the middle 8 is cool, that's my favorite part of the song

Judd:   yeah, it's aight. another gratuitous key change. I weirdly don't really have anything to say about this song

Bubs:   he was pretty amazing when I watched him do "Hold On, Dear Brother" in Vegas

Judd:   oh yeah. did he do Darlin' too?

Bubs:   don't remember

Judd:   bah. so yeah, not an offensive track

Bubs:   I don't have much to say about it

Judd:   lightweight

Bubs:   it's just a pop song

Judd:   yep. maybe I'll listen to it again in a few decades' time and smile

Bubs:   the banjo is an interesting touch

Judd:   true

Bubs:   do you normally associate banjos with Hollywood Boulevard

Judd:   you kiddin me, they're inseparable (cough) THE LAST SONG

Bubs:   is the last song

Judd:   which is the last song ha ha

Bubs:   beat you to it

Judd:   erguerg

Part 13: Not Part 12


The Last Song begins.

Bubs:   all right, get your hankies

Judd:   I fucking hate this

Bubs:   this one's gonna bring the tears

Judd:   there's something about those high piano lines. when the drums kick in it's doomed, and those la la las are stupid. STUPID. I loved the "don't worry"s but this is supposed to make me sad. that drum is so fucking tepid

Bubs:   the "la"'s are supposed to evoke so much emotion but the song really hasn't worked up to that moment yet, it's shown its hand too soon. it's like a movie killing the main person's mom in the first three minutes

Judd:   now it feels like a Seaworld nighttime show

Bubs:   the way they sing "la" is bizarre, too. it sounds more like someone taunting someone else

Judd:   taunting US. this whole song is just so unbearably stale

Bubs:   I want to be moved, but I'm not

Judd:   I don't even care

Bubs:   it just feels all calculated to pull at the heart strings

Judd:   calculated is a good way of describing it

Bubs:   it's like a computer using a formula to write a song

Judd:   it just plods along

Bubs:   “we'll put lone, high piano notes, and then it's gonna have some sad singing, and then it's gonna do a la la la, and then more sad, and then more la la, and then we'll mention loved ones”

Judd:   it's just the drums I really hate. what is that tempo, are they trying to do some weird marching band thing? godddddd it sounds like fucking Winds of Change off MIU

Bubs:   now that's a terrible song

Judd:   I'm convinced this is as bad. anyway, it sounds more like that than Surf's Up, in case that's what they were going for. this album pisses me off. it doesn't remind me of why I love Brian and his music so much

Bubs:   exactly. I think part of the reason it's so frustrating is because it's the fabled Brian Wilson

Judd:   he's not trying anything new because he's covering old ground except coating it in glitz in what feels like a desperate attempt at chart success… it feels so cynical and calculated

Bubs:   a man who managed to translate real emotion and life experiences into his music, and here there's nothing

Closing thoughts.

Judd:   I can't stand how loud a lot of it is. the impression I get is that they're worried listeners will be bored if everything isn't CRANKED.

Bubs:   at least it gave us "In the Back of My Mind"

Judd:   oh, that's true, that's a great thing

Bubs:   why in God's name would they give us ItBoMM and L&M with this album? it makes this album look so poor

Judd:   to be honest, the version of L&M they include is a bit cheesy in a similar sort of way to NPP, but the ITBOMM demo, absolutely

Bubs:    the frankness of the lyrics to L&M are a great example of Brian doing his thing

Judd:   oh yeah. I think the closest this album gets to that might be Tell Me Why, lyrically. I like the opening lines

Bubs:   "a lot of people out there hurtin' and it really scares me." I BELIEVE HIM WHEN HE SAYS THAT

Judd:   me toooo :'(

Bubs:   I don't believe NPP.

Judd:   no. I really hope NPP isn't his last album. I don't think time will be kind to it, even if it is his last album. Blah. RATINGS OUT OF… what was it, 5? LET'S DO TEN. I say a 3/10

Bubs:   let's see here… there's 16 songs, 5 of them are a mixture of okay/good. that's a little less than a third… so, 3/10 it is

Judd:   ah. Best song? Worst song?

Bubs:   Best song...

Judd:   I'll just go with Don't Worry: the only song on the album to wriggle its way into my heart

Bubs:   uuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh… "This Beautiful Day," I guess

Judd:   oof, worst song… I am offended by both Sail Away and The Last Song

Bubs:   how do you only pick one

Judd:   shrug

Bubs:   "Our Special Love" and "Runaway Dancer" are currently having a knife fight

Judd:   Our Special Love is terrible but at least it's not trying to be anything more than stupid bubblegum. Sail Away and Last Song are worse for me because they're both so cold and insincere. I think I'll say Last Song

Bubs:   I'll say "Our Special Love"

Judd:   okey dokes

Bubs:   cuz you might at least be able to dance to RD

Judd:   if no-one's watching

Bubs:    I always dance like no one's watching

The End

This was very entertaining.  I hope you guys will consider reviewing other albums.

You guys need to write a book.  ;D

This is basically how my friends and I discussed this record, as well as many, many other records...

Ooh, do Going Public next!

radio

Uber wacky and zany with a splash of hunger games subtle anti thesaurus chic. Understated yet over the top, like a swift slap across the face with half eaten jam donut.
 

I never thought I'd use the words No Pier Pressure and great in the same sentence but Judd and Bubs made a great thread here. Very entertaining.

The most entertaining thread in quite some time, we want more!

What was so cool about this was that someone's real feel for the album was able to be expressed without an immediate fierce response from certain folks who are extremely protective of all things Brian.....you guys obviously love Brian enough to care deeply about what comes down the pike. Keep up the yuks, so refreshing....

Well spoketh!

I almost choked on my breakfast from laughter when I read that the La-la-la's in The Last Song sound like they're taunting us. :lol

Great job! I'd love to see a few more discussions like this, maybe you could do SALUTE NASCAR next. ;D

An entertaining read for me also and I would surely be interested in a similar conversation about 'Radio'.

Some of the opinions I sympathise with, some I disagree with.  I guess I can't argue with the thoughts of Last Song, though I wouldn't articulate my thoughts in the same way!  However, I'm not big on Don't Worry, and can't get enough of Whatever Happened...I like Blondie's singing on Sail Away regardless of the surrounding circumstances.

A world where people are comfortable with the opinions of others is a better world.

This thread is better than NPP itself.  ;D

In my own self-important opinion, this is the way all musical criticism should be done from now on, instead some someone banging on as if their own self-important opinion was some sort of knowledge being handed down.

Irrelevant to the Beach Boys, but if you guys reviewed something like The Life of Pablo I'd die reading that.

With the exception of Hank Brairstem's self-important banging-ons, I should add, which seem more knowledgey because he types them on an actual typewriter whilst smoking a pipe.

Thanks for all the kinds, everyone. Judd and I were happy to read all of them. We haven't entirely decided if we'll do more for the board or not, but we'll keep your requests in mind.

Bubs & Judd are so cool. They like Animal Collective and they think Grizzly Bear is like totally The Beach Boys of the 21st century. They drink PBR and they volunteer for Bernie Sanders. And they woulda voted for him, but they don't vote, cuz like.....f*** that. Voting's dumb. But maybe if they do decide to vote they'll vote for Trump, cuz like, it's totes ironic brah. Trump's a total douchebag but then again so are Bubs and Judd and it's not cool to like anything that doesn't have some kind of affect to it.

By the way, I just LOVE the way you guys would pick the lyrics apart. Perhaps you should try it on Kanye or the new Radiohead album, cuz I'm sure those are just fuckin' literally masterpieces.

I'm left a little speechless by this batshit crazy characterization of Judd and myself simply because we don't like NPP. It's quite impressive you've managed to get every assumption about me wrong. In reality, it seems like you have a lot of anger towards a certain group of people, and you're lumping us in with them in a pathetic attempt to rationalize our criticisms.

Whatever gets you through the day, man.

Gee "Bubs," I seem to have a distinct memory of your liking your copy of NPP when you first got it.  What happened?  What influence made it so "uncool?"  It's interesting to note who your fans are here.

Yes, I did like it more when I first got it. And thank you for sending it to me. Really.



Well, time passed, and I don't like it so much anymore. The shiny novelty has worn off, and I'm less enthused.



I never called it "uncool," but changing musical taste, I guess? The perspective that time allows? Opinions change.



Now, Debbie, you can't honestly think this is some big, secret scheme. This mentality is so prevalent here, and you all sound like a bunch of paranoid weirdos.

I said nothing about a scheme, did I?  Just interesting.  And your spin isn't very convincing, like this entire thread.

You got me, Debbie.

I'm clone #4873218792. We work in service of Mike Love.
Down with Brian Wilson!

Clone #4873218792, report to the workshop for reprogramming; diverse, evolving opinions are unacceptable. Mike has spoken.

I was wondering what took you so long to post in here. I know, we must tow the line with Brian. We must tow the line with Brian... Are you just a Brian Wilson groupie? Do actually like any of the other Beach Boys? Are you even a fan of the band? Any time I see you it is only about Brian. Remember, this is a BEACH BOYS board. Brian has his own site for his over glorification fans.

The same can be said about a certain poster (NOT referring to you, mind you) who posts nothing but derogatory things about Brian and is pro-Mike.

I happen to be pro-Brian too, for the record.

The new Radiohead is actually good, musically and lyrically.

For the record, I'm pro-Beach Boys. I read in here that some folks don't like Carl's solo stuff, a few don't like or get Dennis' POB album. We all have our likes and dislikes. I like some songs from all of Brian's solo albums, but excepting BWPS, I don't like any of his solo albums as an overall work.

Is it just me or is this place getting sort of McCarthyesque?

Just you.

Admittedly, this probably should have been in the reviews section, but I gotta hand it to ol' Bubs. Dude made a fellow NPP detractor laugh. Best laugh I've had on this humorless dump in a long time. You're a good man, Bubs. Keep up the good work. I'd love to see you dismantle GIOMH with your vicious wit, bruh!

*runaway dancer plays in the TRBB's room*

Bubs and Judd, How about "Looking Back With Love"?  

That song is an atrocity against man and beast alike. I didn't feel the Love. It made me pine for the innocence again. Don't get me wrong. I like Sebu; he's a NICE PERSON. I just didn't resonate with what they were doing at that time.

Do you want the board to cave in on itself? :lol

It's a couple of youth sharing some opinions and having a few laughs - nothing more than that, no spin required either way.

If one's review is not glowing, one is doomed to perpetual damnation among the masses of loons brandishing their semen-stained copies of Goodbye Surfing, Hello God and pointing and screaming "FUM HIM THE MOURDOROUS BASTARD!"

I was thinking there would be some more intelligent discussion overall in this one, maybe some deeper insight with the music itself and the musical elements coming from different perspectives and different sets of ears. But instead of keeping the level of discourse consistently high (or intelligent), it did feel too often like watching Beavis and Butthead as they took the piss out of old Quiet Riot or Scorpions videos. It's too bad.

One issue:


That was very well said at the time it was posted - a middle-ground, fair summation of the release. Not overly positive, but pretty much right in the middle. So I'm wondering now what happened to go from that mindset to offering what some might read as a tag-team "bashing" which wasn't deserved a year ago. Is it more deserving of a beat-down in May 2016 than it had been previously, and for what reasons?

Opinions change. This is nothing new. I once wrote a glowing summation of BWPS on here and now I bash the presentation (I would have preferred it more as a live album than as the K-Tel-esque studio recording it ended up as) considerably more than I did then.

Actually I really like it. It is much, much better than The King of Limbs. And I meant to write literary masterpiece, not literally. And that obviously changed the meaning. But the point still stood. I think the over dissecting of the lyrics was a bit ridiculous.

I think that was the point; it was supposed to be ridiculous. The Beavis & Butt-head comparison is apt.

Whose line are you towing by generalizing Brian Wilson's fans who post to his own site as "over glorification fans", not to mention the other shots you (and Real BB) took at Brian's site/board in the past few days? So much for "we're all Beach Boys fans, we love all the band members, it's all about the music" if taking shots at a website community you don't seem to like at all (not to mention indirectly slamming the fans who do post there with these comments) takes precedence over...talking about the music.

All right, let's not continue this argument here in my thread, please. If you want to argue about each other with each other, go make your own thread. If you want to share your opinion of the review and/or of the album or if you want to call me a hipster douche bag because I don't like No Pier Pressure as much as you do, feel free. This is a music thread, so let's stick to that.

You forgot *mic drop*, you hipster douchebag. :lol

I shared my opinion of the review, asked a question about it too and am curious to hear the answer. My review of the album was already posted last year and is still available here for anyone to read. Should I bump it, or paste it here to continue the discussion?

I also didn't use this on-topic music thread to take a shot at another message board and the people who are active members who post there. Might want to address that point with those who did more promptly than was done here.

Well, I can't answer your question, as I am not Judd. But if you want to share some new insights or thoughts about the album, or if you disagree with something specifically expressed in the review, then by all means, go ahead. I would rather people didn't just repost old reviews, but shared some more recent opinions.

As for your second point, I don't care what happened previously or how long it took; I just want to end it now here and now in my thread. It's weird that you would expect me to do your job for you, but I'll try to be more prompt next time. Debbie accusing me of lying and being some sort of secret Mike agent is what caused this tangent in the first place.

Your first post was better before you edited it.

Thanks.

(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/64710517.jpg)

NPP has some very solid moments, but I'll admit that they are not nearly as plentiful as I'd wished they'd be. I agree that the album hasn't aged super well in the time it's been out; once the new album novelty wore off, the production choices by Joe Thomas just stick out like a sore thumb. They are, by and large, not cool choices. In fact, I probably prefer some of Imagination's production choices by comparison (and I'm no huge fan of that album). I want very, very much to like NPP more than I actually do, and I want to support Brian's work that is dear to his heart in the greatest way possible... but in the end, I can't help but to feel like NPP is trying way, way too hard to be commercial, and in the process it lost something.

I'm still glad we have it, and I am grateful for the moments of blissful beauty that it undeniably still, in parts, provides.

That said, I just re-listened to That Lucky Old Sun yesterday, from start to finish. Hadn't heard it all the way through in at least a year or more. MAN, what a record. The production alone is just so, so much more pure, crisp, and authentic by comparison. And the tunes are way rad. Scott and his talents will certainly be missed in a big way. Big.

After an album as great sounding as TLOS, followed by the also amazing-sounding Gershwin record, I just don't get why the decision was made to go back with the too-slick-sounding Joe Thomas. I mean, I get the idea of wanting to have a "commercial" sounding record, and I get that Joe was perhaps the only way C50 and TWGMTR would have happened... but honestly the sound of Brian's solo career was at its absolute purest apex with TLOS, and there's really no comparison whatsoever in terms of repeated listenability and enjoyment, IMO.

I think that if NPP had been recorded in the TLOS production style, and with much less emphasis on the guest stars (perhaps handing a vocal or two off to Brian's bandmates instead), and dropping a few tracks, that NPP would have had a better chance at actually gaining more traction, and would have been much better awards bait (I don't say that insultingly, mind you - I want Brian's albums to win awards too), for the sole reason that it just would have kicked real ass for real, authentic reasons, as opposed to trying too hard to be commercial, and being often really awkward in the process. Or if the actual TLOS album came out in 2015 instead of 2008, concurrent with the time of L&M, I wonder how it would have fared awards and sales-wise compared to the response it got at the time of its actual release.

I also ponder if C50 hadn't actually happened... would Brian still have gone back to working with Joe Thomas for multiple albums, or if he'd have stuck more with the organic TLOS sound for the records that would have been TWGMTR and NPP (in whatever form they'd have taken)?

I thought the guest appearances became grating after a while. In retrospect, a rather sh*t album of Brian's was sold based on a lot of guest appearances...we should have seen this coming. I stand by the 1.5 I gave No Pier Pressure on here a while back. The Al/David/Blondie collaborations are the best tracks on the album; the rest is predominantly total bloody garbage. I never expected Brian to have another album as bad as Gettin' in Over My Head in him. I was wrong.

Do you think your feeling would change somewhat if the guest starts were sidelined, and if Brian and his bandmates sang most (or all) of the same songs?

Nope. The songs in general weren't really that good to begin with. I don't even know if Carl coming back from the afterlife would have made them any better.

I really didn't want to dislike/borderline hate the record, since it had some legitimately great material (What Ever Happened, The Right Time, One Kind of Love) and some really good stuff (Sail Away, The Last Song). If Runaway Dancer wasn't on the record it probably would have received a 2 - marginally better than Gettin' in Over My Head, leagues worse than the self-titled and the Gershwin record.

Cripes. This grief Bubs and Judd are getting for having opinions that evolve over time is (again) why I never bothered to post much about my own opinions of NPP at the time of its release. It really is a very mixed album - something like four extended, overlapping mini albums in one. Individually, some of the tracks are outstanding; others are excruciating compared to Brian's overall output. Runaway Dancer and Don't Worry are skipped every time. Guess You Had To Be There, and This Beautiful Day, are each outstanding in their own ways by have nothing else in common, something that makes for a disjointed album (unlike, say, TLOS, BWPS or, even, Pet Sounds and Surfer Girl).

At the first listen I was much more sold on the album as a whole - it's very varied and even adventurous in places - but in the following weeks my opinions fermented and over the last year have only solidified along the lines described above.

I think it's a real shame that those prepared to post opinions - in an honest, humorous way - get jumped on for not towing a line, for having perhaps even adopted a different view in the ensuing year. Especially when the talk should be of the music, as the thread started out, and not personal jibes along the lines of "clone" and digging up old posts as if we should all have to stick rigidly to  opinions cited more than a year ago.

Judd and Josh are two young, intelligent and witty guys. I can say this because I have known them for the past 3 years. Here they have clearly created a review format that people find interesting and entertaining. Their review of NPP is so honest and amusing people ask for more album reviews. I would call that a huge success, for it is.

I am glad J/J do not feel any pier pressure from other board members and just do their thing.

NICE! :lol

I do think the all the guest stars are a big problem with this record. The numerous voices and their inevitable influence on the songs make the album as a whole less cohesive. Not to mention the fact that almost half of the lead vocals on Brian's solo album are taken up by people that are not Brian. He has to be a bit of an outlier in that regard, right? You don't pick up a Bowie, Dylan, McCartney, Nilsson, etc. album and expect to hear several different people taking the lead.

Also, I haven't actually heard too much of Brian's solo output myself. I've listened to BW88 a couple times (and it's decent--"MELT AWAY" IS THE BEST THING EVER), and TLOS once or twice, but that's pretty much the extent of it. So, when it comes to my thoughts on No Pier Pressure, they're not informed by the experience of listening to most of Brian's other solo outings.

A lot of people on here would start an argument in an empty room. I enjoyed reading it. Small criticism would be that you maybe influenced each others thinking but hard to avoid that I guess.

Agree that the various influences of various personalities on style can be distracting though GYHTBT and SNOHB are arguably two of the strongest, likeable tracks on NPP. I don't, however, have an issue with the multifarious lead vocals on the album; Brian worked that way for almost the first half of his career after all! ;)

I've hardly listened to this album since the first month of it coming out. I shall listen to it today and review it (if I'm inspired to) in the review subforum. Thanks for the enjoyable review.

Bubs, what?  You haven't heard too much of Brian's solo output?  I'd get busy.  Start with the one he did with Van Dyke, Orange Crate Art.  He sings all of the leads on Van Dyke's album.

That's good to know. Your experience with Brian's solo output which is now up to 28 years' worth of solo releases and over a dozen albums including albums of originals and covers plus live releases is limited to a few spins of TLOS, a few more than that for BW 88, and a copy of NPP that sounds like someone gave to you as a gift.

I remembered this comment from a few pages ago:



It would seem this thread's rolling commentary on NPP might have come from places other than a love of Brian and caring deeply for what comes down the pike if at least one reviewer admits to not listening to or even knowing Brian's discography other than a few spins of two BW solo albums. I'd also ask at that point if the disappointment in this latest album comes from that lack of knowledge of what Brian's solo music actually is or what it sounded like when he wasn't cutting records with and for the Beach Boys.

I'd recommend going back and finding where the comment about "towing the line" was first written and who wrote it, and consider the context particularly to whom the comments were being directed. Then it might seem even more absurd than me for one asking the reviewers for reasons why specific opinions have seemingly changed to this extent. As a fan myself, and knowing as we all learned as children that opinions can and do change, I'm curious *why* in this case, or what made them change so drastically.

Again, consider reading through these pages where it's clear to see which comments were made outside the area of talking "about the music" or even about the NPP commentary itself and who was making those posts. Unless taking shots at the Brian Wilson forum and challenging a board member's status as a Beach Boys fan is talking about the music and I just missed that item on the daily memo...

They wouldn't even have to have ever heard of Brian to give their informed opinion of his album. 

That's what blogging is for in the digital age. It's also come to a perhaps more technocratic model where Twitter limits how much someone can write and filters by design whose "tweets" are followed in mass quantities based on perceived celebrity status or one's ability to be witty or insightful in a dozen words while ignoring the art of analysis and in many cases, basic grammar and the proper use of language.

I've been very clear on my own opinions of reviewers and critics. As of 2016 I have no time for them, as a general rule with few exceptions. And a lot of it has to do with how many are content to sign their name as a de facto authority on the topic they're reviewing enough to hand down those opinions as if from a place of higher knowledge or expertise when in fact they are sometimes ignorant of the basic facts or background of what they're reviewing. Maybe some consider reviewing a new album or film as equal to the "Mystery Diner" in a local paper trying out a new steak n' ale franchise in town and raving over the onion rings while saying "the salad was disappointing", but I think there has to be more to it, more responsibility perhaps to actually know more than the average reader about the work of art and artist being reviewed, especially if it is critical.

But maybe I'm spoiled too by having read my fair share of rock journalism and rock criticism from a bygone era. We can all list the obvious names, Christgau, Bangs, Paul Williams, etc. It's often bashed and rightfully so, but picking up a copy of Rolling Stone's original record reviews from their first few years, there is some terrific rock journalism mixed in with the ridiculous, including a few that were very insightful takes on Beach Boys albums from Friends to Sunflower.

In those cases, those writers and journalists were more often than not actually writing with more than a working knowledge of what they were reviewing and analyzing, not just the actual album or song but what surrounded it as well.

At the same time in history, in any number of dorms, lofts, garage hangouts, bedrooms, basements, etc...there were a few buddies passing around a bottle of muscatel, shaking out a bag of seeds and stems to hopefully get enough to pack a bowl made from tinfoil, drop the needle on the latest album they had bought, and start rapping about it. Which I'm sure in some cases was as insightful and as brilliant if not moreso than any number of "published" reviews. But in most cases, it was a bunch of guys and gals sitting around getting zonked and talking. Worthy of publication and distribution to readers, or just a few pals having a rap session?

Many elements and sides to this. If it's up to me, I'll listen and judge for myself, because I think the blogging and podcasting and tweeting and all else has watered down the art of rock journalism so it's almost on par with reviewing a Happy Meal at McDonalds...with few exceptions. Anyone can blog if they set up an account, there are millions to choose from. I worry that the actual quality of the writing and analysis plays much less of a role in reaching an audience and saying something meaningful and knowledgeable than other variables.

The first music criticism I remember was Jon Landau in Eye magazine. I think I remember it anyway. I was a big fan until he got carried away with Springsteen and I realized it is just an opinion regardless of how much justification he threw at it.  Still not a Springsteen fan and my '70s opinion has been born out by history as Bruce was never heard from again after that.

Brace yourself for this, Craig, but this is one area where in which I agree with an awful lot of what you're saying here! :lol

Having earned a substantial portion of my income in the last decade from reviewing outdoor (read "hiking", my specialist field to this day) equipment, it was galling to see the amount of credibility the public at large and the industry in particular placed in blog reviews, some of which were written by genuine enthusiasts with experience to offer, but others were written by new kids inspired not by sharing any knowledge (because they had none to offer) but by the lure of free kit from companies wanting online exposure and the kudos of seeing the number of page "visits" rack up. Some gear companies became more interested in online exposure than genuine critiques of their products in respected journals.

As a professional journalist (qualified, almost decade on newspapers, 15 years on magazines and seven years freelancing…) it was dispiriting to see all that experience, and that of so many colleagues and peers, being devalued overnight by a bunch of Johnny-come-latelys who barged in and pulled the rug from under us – and they did that with some ease, as they didn't have to waste time doing tedious things like training, research, gaining experience, going through a process of sub-editing, layout and design, etc etc etc.

A blogger could have a five-star review online with an hour of receiving a product, before a pro had even had chance to give it the usual minimum two weeks (sometimes more, sometimes less) testing in the field. A blogger might review a single "waterproof Gore-Tex" jacket within hours, even in the midst of a drought and even though it was lined with Sympatex; I'd stare out of the door praying for a fortnight of rain so I could do a comparative report of, say, 12 different jackets. The research often took even longer than the product testing. I'm generalising but I think you'll get the drift.

I liked to think that my own reviews were, at times, entertaining as well as insightful – fun even – while the blogger might regard his task as primarily entertainment, with a splash of ego boost thrown in, and a dash of ass-licking to ensure the flow of free gear didn't suddenly dry up.  I'm ranting, and I'm not as bitter as I sound, but the drift in that direction is insidious and invidious, and infuriating if I sit and think about it for long enough…

My only area of difference is that of the difference between an authoritative review (ie, in a published magazine), or one claiming some integrity (perhaps, for example, at the BBC's website) and on a message board such as this. Message board reviews, to me, don't carry the same obligation for in-depth research and knowledge, beyond, perhaps, a love of the subject matter and a working knowledge of (in the case this thread has become about) a subject the poster loves. Message boards seem more of a here-today-gone-tomorrow medium (okay, some of the threads and posts on this board are academic in the extreme, which is a bonus), a place for knocking ideas to-and-fro, throwing things up for debate, a place where even a lack of spell-checking might be forgiven (by some!). A printed review, on the other hand, or one on a subscription/curated/archived site, ought to be – well – more authoritative, a source of reference for the future even.

I'm not making myself very clear, I fear, but yes I bemoan the lack of authority in widely circulated and respected review media but don't begrudge opinions on social media (including message boards), so along as they're not trying to sell themselves as something other than what they are.

I'm still not making myself very clear, I fear, but hope I'm getting the essence across!

Apologies also for any derailment…

repeat rant…

I really liked NPP, but I do think the cattle call of guest artists do detract from the album a tad, and as a result, it's not really a cohesive listening experience like TLOS or even TGWMTR were. 

There's a lot of great BW material on the record, but then, there's some EDM thing and a country/pop thing that interupt the flow of the album. 

I still really enjoy most of the album, but I doubt I'll listen to it from start to finish as much as Imagination, Gershwin, or TLOS. 

These kind of threads are one of the many reasons this place is not worth visiting. It's such a shame really that a fan forum like Smiley Smile is mostly filled with bashing and negativity. Just look up the recent posts section and most of the threads (if already aren't, will turn) into throwing sh*t into some direction. Everybody has their own opinions for sure, but I just wonder how is it possible for people call themselves Beach Boys - or Brian Wilson fans when it seems all they can say is negative sh*t?

Anyway, I just keep on wondering why Runaway Dancer splits peoples opinions so radically? I love it. It was my most played song in 2015. And I still listen it almost weekly. It's awesome as hell and would be even better if the synths were more louder and tempo a bit faster.

I like No Pier Pressure a lot. It's a great listen from start to finish. Filled with amazing summertime and feel good music. The production ain't the best and there is some weaker moments, but overall they don't distract me or sabotage my listening experience. I do agree with this review at least in something though, and that's I'm Feeling Sad. It's a great tune, maybe even the best on the whole album.

John Manning, complete support for your rant, both in terms of the degradation of research, expertise and professionalism (and I'll add reason) and in that a message board is just a message board. I'll also add that Bubs is a great writer.
And that it's "toe" the line, not "tow" the line.

I can explain my dislike for Runaway Dancer pretty easily.  I hate dance music.  

I hated the disco version of Here Comes the Night.

I hated the dabbling in rap on Summer of Love.

And I hate the EDM of Runaway Dancer.

Brian Wilson is one of the great composers of the rock era and always had a good solid band behind him, be it The Beach Boys, The Wrecking Crew, or his current band of Wondermints+.  To include an artificial EDM track on a Brian Wilson album just feels wrong to me.  

And despite my dislike for EDM, I tried hard to like the track.  I really did because I'm a fan of the album as a whole.  But when I hear those dance beats kick in, I just cringe.  

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I know a lot of posters on this board like hip hop, electronic, EDM, etc.  But, not for me.  And I can't believe that was one of four tracks on NPP that made the setlist last summer when there are literally a dozen tracks that would've been a better choice.  

The voice of reason (yet again). And boy do we need it right now.

My favorite on that album is Sail Away which sounds very different from the Orange Crate Art track.  I can imagine Carl doing the lead, or Dennis doing shared sections with Al. Blondie does a great job on lead.  

Can't help my context; it sounds like great BB material.  Wish it was on TWGMTR.   ;)

Happy Friday people!  :beer

I understand that. But in the same way I must say that I do like disco, I love electronic and I love even some good EDM. And Runaway Dancer stands out as a really classy electronic dance music song. It's completely in its own league. It has a cool 80s vibe but it doesn't sound dated. Anyway, what bugs me overall (not just here, but anywhere) is bashing out a song just because someone doesn't like the genre it represents. I personally don't like metal, but I can still appreciate it even if I don't listen to it because it's just not for me.

There's good EDM to be found if you're willing to look; Runaway Dancer sounds more like imitation than innovation.

Just because Brian writes music doesn't mean that it is all good, either from a song writing standpoint or from a production stand point. We know where you stand with NPP and that is terrific. Shoot, I wish I could praise the hell out of every album he has released. I always want to, but as whole albums, none of them move me enough to do so. It is something I would like to have discussion about, not someone tell me I am wrong, because this is Brian Wilson and everything he writes or produces is golden, and that I am wrong for expressing that displeasure.

Brian's board is mainly for Brian, and if one is inclined to only want to read Brian-centric posts, then they should go there if the talk here is not to their liking. I didn't agree with Bubs & Judd's assessment of every song, but it was entertaining to read their banter either pro or con about each song. It was actually nice for change to have chuckle while reading posts in here. The dramatics that go on in here sometimes become overwhelming at times and unpleasurable. We should all be here to have fun and share our feelings and insights about the band.

If I can't stand the genre, wouldn't logic dictate that I would dislike a song that conforms to that genre?  

I can understand you're liking Runaway Dancer if you're a fan of beat based music, and that's all well and good.  

I can appreciate country for what it is.  And even some older pop and R&B if their not my taste.  But rap, electronic, EDM, dance, techno, etc etc.  I'll respect someone's opinion who enjoys it, but I'm sorry, I just can't appreciate it in any real way.  

I've not heard any, and quite frankly, I'm not willing to seek out any.  I don't have as much time to devote to music as I used to, and I'd prefer to spend that time either listening to the music I already love or seeking out new or even older bands I overlooked in the rock world. 

The fact that the album still evokes a lot of talk wether it's critizism or praise, tells to me that people are interested in it. Any artist would like to release a piece that splits peoples opinions in half. That's a very good sign. I know, it's just a year old album, but I bet it's going to evoke even more conversations in the near future. 

I think I like 'Runaway Dancer' because it reminds me a lot of Love You...an album where Brian played many instruments on his own - including the synth - without a solid band behind him. 'Runaway Dancer' is a song drenched in synth, yet it still has fantastic harmonies and beautiful moments (specifically that bridge). It is Brian going completely against the flow of what people expect of him - which is something I think perhaps Brian does intentionally from time to time (Smiley Smile, Love You, etc).

And definitely to each their own, not saying you have to like it. But Brian doing an EDM song shouldn't feel 'wrong' to you at all...Brian has done nearly every genre in the book at this point. If anything, it's wonderful to see him trying new and different things.

@Bubbly Waves; definitely check out the Gershwin album sometime. If you search through the archives of this site, you'll run across a lot of great commentary on the making of the album. I also posted a song-by-song write up/bio for the album on Brian's forum: http://brianwilson.websitetoolbox.com/post/brian-wilson-reimagines-gershwin-apprecation-thread-7894626?trail=15 (http://brianwilson.websitetoolbox.com/post/brian-wilson-reimagines-gershwin-apprecation-thread-7894626?trail=15)

I think 'Nothing But Love' is in the top 5 of Brian's solo material, and the story behind it makes it that much better.

NPP might very well be Brian's solo Love You with split opinions across the board.

Most likely.

And please don't take my criticism for Runaway Dancer (and to a lesser extent Guess You Had to Be There) to mean I don't like the album. 

It's still my 2nd favorite BW solo album.  Without those two tracks, it would be an easy #1. 

I kinda think of those two tracks the same way I do about tracks like Bull Session with Big Daddy and Denny's Drums. 

Well, we are all Beach Boys fans, so anything released is going to peak my interest. I have everything officially released by the band and as solo artists. I have it in duplicate, triplicate, etc. I could never be accused of not supporting the band. I've spent many Dineros buying and re-buying the music. I want every album released to be another Pet Sounds or Sunflower, but in the last 50 years that has not happened for me. Maybe for you, but not for me. I liked most of NPP when I first heard it, but in the last 6 months I have barely listened to it. Now ask me how many times I played Pet Sounds, Love You, Wild Honey, Sunflower or Today? Hell, I play them almost weekly. Of Brian's solo albums the only one that gets played on a regular basis by me is the Gershwin album. I love his renditions of the Porgy & Bess material. It fits his voice, he sings with passion and it moves me because he does so. You know though, at this point, I am happy that he is still writing and performing and that even though I don't like everything, I do like some things. I am grateful that he still wants to give us music and I will always support him for that whether I like everything or not.

In a career than spans over half a century, I think it's impossible for anybody to like everything.   

Pink Floyd is my favorite band of all time, and there's a couple of clunkers in their catalog, and their total output pales in comparison to The Beach Boys / Brian Wilson. 

I think the real reason Joe Thomas was brought back into the fold is this: he had (still has) a lot of unreleased Brian Wilson songs/ideas/snippets in his possession from their work together in the late '90s. Seems like there was a big burst of creativity from Brian in those '90s sessions with Joe and that maybe Brian and Melinda think that it's a well worth going back to. And in my opinion, if a healthy chunk of both That's Why God Made The Radio and No Pier Pressure do originate from those sessions then good on them. There's a lot of great stuff on both of those albums. If it is true that maybe Brian has had some trouble writing since TLOS then it's super helpful that Joe has all this stuff, and I'm sure having these bits and pieces spur Brian to make something out of them.

I consider this all a good thing. But then again, I'm weird and I consider both TWGMTR and NPP to be great albums while I find TLOS to be solid, but not particularly exciting.

I think that is a highly probable theory. There is some good stuff to be had on both albums, that is certain.  Nevertheless, to my ears, it was a definite step down in terms of production. I just wish they would've use that same logic and brought back Andy Paley! Talk about a well of good material that is just sitting and writing, without being finished and released.

Even in describing "Runaway Dancer" as EDM, there is a disconnect between what opinions are about the genre and what the genre actually is, and who or what is considered EDM. I do not like the term EDM at all, because some use it to label everyone from Giorgio Moroder to Deadmau5, and it's not accurate. I'd wager most on this board wouldn't know a good 80% of artists who are actually performing and releasing music as EDM artists. It's not a genre that encapsulates anything with a dance beat and synth textures, yet it gets used as an incorrect label as often as "disco" had been at one time.

Capital Cities - of which Sebu is one half of the creative force behind the duo - is considered "indie pop" if you had to put them into a genre to be labeled. They worked writing and producing jingles in the advertising biz before putting together the album which had their biggest hit "Safe And Sound", and that was a massive hit on contemporary pop and alternative radio. It crossed those demographics to the point where it was heard on alternative stations, top 40 stations, and is now even heard on the various stations with the words "KISS" or "STAR" as their call signs. And, no surprise due to that appeal for marketers, the song made the band another good paycheck through advertising when it got picked up after its initial chart run to be used in national TV and multimedia ad campaigns.

Point is - They were not considered EDM if we're talking formats and demographics.

Unless Skrillex, Deadmau5, Diplo, and any number of current and former less well-known EDM artists are as widely played across formats as Capital Cities, it shows EDM is still, for those who know the genre and the artists, a pretty specific sound and genre even though some try to shoehorn anything with a 4-on-the-floor beat and synths into being called EDM.

Is that saying that Sebu himself does not work in EDM or with EDM artists and festivals? Of course not. He DJ's various festivals and events with other EDM artists and DJ's whose names are familiar to followers of that genre but generally unknown to those who do not follow the scenes. But Capital Cities as they're most well known with their hits is not EDM.

"Runaway Dancer" is not EDM. People who write and perform EDM would say it's not EDM.

If anything it was right in line with what Sebu had success with when Safe And Sound became a monster hit. There was a lot of returning back to 80's synth-pop sounds and production quirks, and those sounds were all over indie pop, top 40 pop and dance, and other mainstream genres, even alternative formats were full of warbly over-chorused guitar tones and analog synths that were straight from the sonic palettes of old Oberheims and Junos and even 808's that were all over early 80's top 40 radio.

It was a sound that was both new to the current target demographic, and familiar enough to be nostalgic for the generation that grew up on it, which is why quite a few of these songs like Capital Cities' "Safe And Sound" crossed over. The sounds were familiar to some, and new enough to attract others. And the song was catchy as hell, full of multiple sonic and musical hooks, and had a good beat so you could dance to it (nod to Bandstand's Rate-A-Record...)

So Sebu brought THAT to the table with Brian's song. And like his sounds on Capital Cities tracks, it evokes a certain style of music that appeals to multiple listeners, while some simply don't like those sounds. It captured some of the sonic aura especially in the instrumental breaks and with the percolating synth-driven rhythmic sequences that wouldn't be out of place if you found a Miami Vice episode from 1985 on TV during one of Crockett's "driving fast through empty Miami streets at night" musical interludes.

In other words Sebu brought to the table exactly what he was able to bring to the table. Take an existing song, which was pretty much written and structured a certain way, and tweak it while adding some sonic hooks and textures to put his stamp on the overall production. I think it works.

And if anyone still considers this EDM, and can't get into the song because they "don't like EDM", consider doing this:

Go to YouTube. Search for these three names, three of the more familiar artists in the EDM genre, and play one of their performances as found on YouTube: Steve Aoki, Deadmau5, and Diplo. Do those artists or the recommendations of other artists that come up on YouTube sound like Runaway Dancer?

Or could it be the attempts to label something and anything as a certain genre in order to fit for the marketing campaigns, or in some cases, to put something into a category to have an excuse for not liking it beyond the simple opinion of not liking it?

As in "I don't like disco".

Craig, this is bullshit. Please stop trying to discredit my opinion because you don't agree with it. Do I have to read the entire bibliography of Dostoevsky before I can pass judgement on Crime & Punishment? Do I have to watch the entirety of Polanski's films before I can decide whether or not I think Rosemary's Baby is good? It's music, not a foreign language. What it actually sounds like you're saying is the rest of Brian's output is bad, and my expectations would be tempered for this album if I had exposed myself to them. Whatever. Don't presume to know what my feelings for Brian are, lest you hop on Debbie's paranoid weirdo train. I've been a part of this website for 3 years now because I love what he's created, but just like every other human being, he isn't without faults. Additionally, as one extra bonus rebuttal, No Pier Pressure is the only non-compilation, Beach-Boys-related item to "come down the pike" while I've been an active fan.

My apologies for not doing this originally. Save the search time, just point and click to hear EDM as of 2015 when Runaway Dancer was released, followed by Runaway Dancer itself. For sake of comparison.

Steve Aoki live performance, May 2015:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk_95UxFwxQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk_95UxFwxQ)

Skrillex live performance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2VmcuOEqEg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2VmcuOEqEg)

Diplo live performance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjXdgowYmVU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjXdgowYmVU)


Compare those to Runaway Dancer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp6oQmSvGC4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp6oQmSvGC4)


I only offer those because labeling and trying to categorize something that it's not to the point where some won't be into it based on what label it's given can cause music people may like to fall by the wayside.

Or if you simply don't like it, you don't like it. Simple as that.

Really, there has been no drastic change in opinion for me. See this review (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22642.msg534104.html#msg534104) I posted four months after the album came out. My opinions have continued to form and solidify the longer I've been familiar with the album. Yes, it seems to be in a negative direction, but that's just what happened. Psychologically-speaking, strong opinions become even more extreme when they're challenged.

That might not be too far off. Although, I'm heavily pro-Love You. Wonderful album.



I own the album, and I will get to it. I know it's supposed to be great. All this other music just keeps getting in the way. :P
Soon, I promise.

I guess you can still be of the opinion something sucks even if you don't know the genre.

The difference is a review (or reviewers) has or should be expected to have the responsibility to the readers to come from a place of knowledge or experience when offering the review. A review is opinion, yes, but if a reviewer is going to publish and take it to a different level than simply offering opinions as any random person will do when experiencing something and offering a reaction to it, they should at least be more knowledgeable and aware of the area they're reviewing than a random person reacting to something. Two examples:

The classical and jazz music worlds can be a little stuffy, a little pretentious in the wrong hands, of course. But would a publication or anyone for that matter hire and send a writer/reviewer whose expertise is punk rock and alternative music who has little or no knowledge of jazz or classical music to review a jazz concert featuring the compositions of Charles Mingus or critique a classical concert featuring the works of Stravinsky when that writer is unfamiliar with the bodies of work from those composers and has no frame of reference other than a gut-level reaction upon hearing it? Would those publications or even that writer then expect their readers to weigh the writings and critiques of someone totally unfamiliar with those genres of music and the history of the music as anywhere close to the words of someone who instead has a working knowledge of who and what they're writing about?

It separates the responsibility if not the burden of both the reviewer and the outlet that publishes the review as journalism and critical or analytical music writing from anyone's ability to start a blog or post on any online outlet and post opinions 'til the cows come home. But which are presented as informed opinions and analysis versus gut-level reactions?

The issues John Manning raised regarding commercial reviews and market-specific publications publishing reviews applies as well to something as specific as the world of guitar gear and equipment.

The trend has been for years to emulate classic gear that has since become valued out of the range of most players who are not successful beyond the norm or else the weekend warriors who work and do business on the golf course during the week and like to unwind on weekends over cigar and whiskey get-togethers while strumming Skynrd tunes on a '59 Les Paul through a '65 blackface Fender Twin that their regular jobs could afford to finance.

So companies make products like affordable plug-ins for various devices like iPhones, iPads, and any number of DAW recording setups that are supposed to offer the sound of a '65 Fender Twin.

If I read a review of such a product emulating a '65 Fender Twin, I would expect that the reviewer took the time and effort to have either plugged into an actual vintage '65 Twin for a true A/B comparison, or at least have had previous experience either owning or playing through a real '65 Twin at some point in order to form the opinion on which the review is based.

If they did not, then both praising this emulation of a '65 Twin by saying "I plugged into this plug-in and it nailed the sound of a '65 Twin!" or "this plug-in falls short of sounding like a real '65 Twin" is simply dishonest and not coming from a place of knowledge. It's just someone's gut-level reaction and should not be elevated to being presented as a knowledgeable review.

And my own gut-level feeling is that some of the reviewers who might be writing about the latest plug-ins to emulate a '65 Twin could be put into a room and given a blind test, where a real '65 blackface Twin, a 70's master-volume silverface Twin, an 80's red-knob Twin, and a Line 6 Pod set to the Twin preset would not be distinguishable. Yet, players who know their field of work and are legitimately knowledgeable about vintage amps could probably pick them out quite easily because they know the differences in sound and response between each.

So, a review has to come from a place of knowledge and hands-on experience, and there is or should still be a place in the market for that versus anyone who wants to start a blog account to post opinion after opinion coming from far less an authoritative or knowledgeable position.

Exactly right. And that's why my multiple years of listening to Brian Wilson's music makes me a knowledgeable and experienced reviewer.

I was answering Cam's post and also getting back to what John Manning shared about his own professional experience writing and publishing product reviews, but to answer this: By your own admission you've played two out of the dozen or so solo albums that Brian has released since 1988, and even those only a few times. If your frame of reference and base of working knowledge on Brian's solo discography is formed by what you heard from Brian on 40 or 50 year old Beach Boys albums that Brian made versus what he has done in his solo career, how is that presenting experience as influencing what you're setting out to review? If listeners are buying a solo Brian record with the expectation they'll be hearing "Summer Days..." or "Today" or any others versus what Brian has done as a solo artist, they're coming from an almost unrealistic point of expectation. There are plenty of copycat bands and artists if people want to hear the 1965 "Brian sound" in 2016, but Brian is 50 years older and his solo material is simply not along those lines, rather it's what he chooses to write and how he chooses his music to sound in the present day. It would be the same if someone who has only played two previous McCartney albums a few times reviews a newer solo McCartney album using his Beatles catalog as a reference point and expects to hear another "Hey Jude" or "We Can Work It Out", or someone buying then reviewing a newer Clapton solo release expects him to play and sound like he did on Fresh Cream, having only listened to 461 Ocean Boulevard or Layla from his solo catalog.

I like about three or four tracks off this, but I don't think the good songs even approach the quality of the last four tracks from TWGMTR. It's a bit... bland, not unlike Imagination, though I think that has two or three really good NEW songs (though the production values are worse than NPP). To be honest, apart from BW88 (once you get past that awful late 80s production sound), none of Brian's albums do a great deal for me, though this is nowhere near the overpolished turd that is GIOMH (which, lest we forget, did have about three or four good songs on it, swamped by awful arrangements). It's not that I'm one of those railing against autotune - if the song's good, I could care less, bearing in mind the guy's age and the state of his voice - nor I'm looking for the Lovester's ghastly fun in the sun nostalgic sh*t, I'd just like to hear something that's musically interesting - half as interesting as From There To Back Again or the tune of What I Really Want For Christmas (tune, not lyrics) would be a start. I don't even hear that on most of TLOS; ambitious as the project is, I think there are a few great songs on there, but I'll pass on the rest. I also don't like the Brian as franchise thing - Gershwin, Disney, Christmas with maybe Rock and Roll to come. Then again, I don't like the Dylan as franchise thing either. Of course, neither owe us a thing, but as fans, we live in hope.

I reckon that out of Brian's solo albums (and Orange Crate Art), apart from 88, I could make a double album (a side and half in CD terms) of good stuff - so, um, about 20 tracks:

1.   This Song Wants To Sleep With You Tonight
2.   Cry
3.   Lay Down Burden
4.   Happy Days
5.   Orange Crate Art
6.   Wings of a Dove
7.   California Feeling
8.   What I Really Want For Christmas
9.   How Could We Still Be Dancing
10. Gettin' In Over My Head
11. City Blues
12. Don't Let Her Know She's An Angel
13. That Lucky Old Sun/Morning Beat
14. Live Let Live (I prefer the one that wasn't on TLOS)
15. Midnight's Another Day/Lucky Old Sun
16. This Beautiful Day
17. Tell Me Why
18. Sail Away
19. I'm Feeling Sad
20. Half Moon Bay

Would I really want the Christmas song or Half Moon Bay? Dunno. Nothing on here's as good as From There To Back Again, though.

I guess this isn't our grandfathers' review.

I wonder.. would you have gone through all this trouble if my review was positive? I mean, I know the answer, but still.

Guitarfool,

OK, so maybe Runaway Dancer isn't EDM.  Maybe it's synth pop.  Maybe it's dance.  Maybe it's techno. 

Maybe I should be more broad and just say the song doesn't appeal to me because I don't like dance music. Anything with an electronic beat. 

I also think it's a bit of a square peg on an otherwise very high quality album. 

Either way, whatever the heck Runaway Dancer is, I don't like it. 

Thank you for taking the time to educate. Although it  seems to me that the actual use of  terms like  EDM, Disco, Slick, synthetic horns etc, when relating to the albums production  style are actually meant as not so subtle slurs aimed at The label, Melinda, Joe Thomas, Sebu, the other guest artists ,etc. Im only a part time visitor to this site,  but the impression that I get is that there is a  prevailing theory  shared by some  that Brian would have never actually thought of  ever doing  any of these things himself, left to his own device.  Only when working with Andy Paley and Scott Bennett can we be assured that Brian's actual brush strokes make it to the canvas. Even  when there seem to be obvious examples of  Brian's trademark  production  style on NPP,  such as a great moving pick bass line with tons of echo on it, the reviewer ( or again supposedly the reviewers) infer that it was probably one of the aforementioned interlopers trying to rip off one of Brian's old techniques. Techniques from the good old days before Brian was dragged to the studio and tied down while various handlers auto tune his vocals and force him to work with cruel and nefarious pretend singers like Zooey  Deschanel. Singers who Brian could not possibly have ever heard of before let alone actually like.  Zooey   has  done some pretty amazing cover versions  of Brian's songs. But  according to the this theory, Brian couldn't possibly have been flattered by that, or think she has a cute voice. Or watched her very popular show on TV, or seen any of her movies with his kids. Her collaboration  and the others had to be a bad idea conjured up by some label suit.  While I am at it, I also find the criticism of the lyrics on NPP another not so subtle attempt to dis credit or slur the album.  Specifically the albums collaborators. It's  as if there was meant to be  some hidden lyrical genius the rest of us are missing on TLOS .   "Goin Home  Im Goin Home Back to the place where I belong Found piece of mind one piece at a time."  Or  on the Paley sessions  " Some guy walked by hit me in the side Elbow is the thing that keeps me satisfied" .  Brian if you are reading this, I applaud your continued enthusiasm, your quirky lyrics, and the fact that at 75 you are not still wearing the same production sweater that you wore in 1965. You use different collaborators for different reasons and i enjoy listening to  all of your efforts without prejudice!

I hope you post more often! Well said.

I'm not sure how, apparently incorrectly, referring to my least favorite track on NPP is some kind of slur against Brian, Melinda, Joe Thomas, etc.   I've been very complimentary of the album as a whole, bar two songs.  

I just figured I'd answer when a poster asked why Runaway Dancer is so divisive.  

I've have no issues with Brian or Melinda Wilson.  In fact, I've met them both and found both to be very cordial.  I have no issues with Joe Thomas as I really like Imagination, TWGMTR, and NPP.  I've I had a critique of him, it would be his production of live material.  

A criticism of an album, or any aspect of the album (ie. a song, lyrics, a lead vocal, guitar lick, etc) does not always equal a criticism of the artist.  Anybody on here who had anything critical to say about NPP, including myself, bought the album, listened to it, and care about because we're fans of Brian Wilson.  

Like I said earlier, you can still be a fan, and not cherish every single note of music from an artist.  

That is perfectly valid. We either like or don't like something, from food to music to whatever else. But what bothered me for a year, and which led to posting what I did, especially the clips of actual EDM artists performing EDM at EDM festivals, was the way too many reviewers and commentators were calling the track EDM when it is really not, and then reading the equivalent of "I don't like EDM so I don't like the song." It's a false equivalency because the track is not EDM, unless the definition of EDM could be stretched and manipulated to include everything from "Let's Go Crazy" by Prince, to "Setting Sun" by the Chemical Brothers and Noel Gallagher, up to whatever Skrillex and Diplo do at those EDM events, maybe even to include "Summer Of Love" because that is a synth-heavy, beat driven electronic/digital track with a dance groove.

It's all about accuracy in labeling and categorizing things, especially if certain labels might dissuade people from even checking out the song itself, whatever that song might be.

Are Rolling Stones fans still down on "Miss You" because they're rock and roll purists and Miss You is disco, with trademark disco drum groove and bass lines? Not to mention the "Stayin Alive" disco bpm tempo, more or less? I love the track - the jazz harmonica solo at the end is alone worth the price of admission. I'd say the same with Dead purists and "Shakedown Street" - Disco Dead or not, that tune is one hell of a groove and has neat chord changes, plenty of cool major 7ths and the like.

I'm glad I never bought into the purists dismissing those tracks I really enjoy playing and hearing simply because the purists wrote them off as disco.

I actually like songs like Miss You, Run Like Hell, and I Was Made for Loving You, even though I hate disco.  To me, even with the disco beat, those songs still sound like The Stones, Floyd, and Kiss. 

Maybe the fact that I dislike Runaway Dancer, and the fact that I dislike EDM are two separate things.  In fact, if Runaway Dancer were pure EDM, I could absolutely detest it.  But I tried like hell to like it.  And I'll confess the live version's not too bad. 

Seconded.

I love Miss You. And Parallel Lines.

Speaking of Floyd, it would also have to include "Another Brick In The Wall pt 2", that has several musical elements that were trademarks of disco, from the 4-on-the-floor drum groove and bass, to especially Gilmour's out of phase Strat rhythm parts on the prechorus "hey teacher..." section. That guitar rhythm and tone is something Nile Rodgers could have played, and which he did play on everything from Chic to Donna Summer to David Bowie dance hits that made to top of the pop and dance charts.

I know this too because I remember hearing it on the Philly radio station in the single edit form, "back in the day". It was Floyd being played in the same set of music as the Village People and Donna Summer, because it was - horrors - something of a dance/disco hit as well. In the last 35 years or so, it has become a staple of classic rock. But when that single was new, it was being played on top 40 and dance radio, at least in Philly. A few years later a similar Philly radio station was regularly playing an extended dance remix of Springsteen's "Dancing In The Dark", emphasizing how Mighty Max was basically playing a disco beat on the kick drum and it had a danceable tempo.

Yeah ABITW2 is another example.  Elements of disco, but still sounds like Floyd. 

Another is Queen who incorporated dance into Another One Bites the Dust.  However, I think Queen went a little too dance for my taste of a few tracks off their Hot Space album. 

Of course, Another One Bites The Dust which is a watered down version of Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards grooves on Chic's Good Times, right down to Brian May doing Nile's funky rhythm comping during the verses. Yet, it still sounded like Queen, even though technically, it's watered down Chic and disco at its core. The fact it is disco doesn't affect my enjoyment of it, and hasn't for decades, it's a great track with that terrific wordless vocal solo from Freddie after the breakdown section. It was a song that was made for disco/pop markets and for dance clubs, yet it's Queen. I don't know if any diehard Queen fans at the time wouldn't listen to it because it was disco, or if any of that still exists today among the fanbase.

If I also remember correctly, until he got his own entrance music, the WWF wrestler "The Junkyard Dog" used Another One as his theme song when he came into the ring for a bout. I was one of those 80's fans watching matches at the Spectrum on PRISM when we first got cable, and i admit I bought and still own The Wrestling Album with everyone from Junkyard Dog to Nikolai Volkoff singing.

You're right, Another One Bites the Dust still sounds like Queen.  Take a song like Staying Power though.  If Freddie Mercury weren't singing, you'd have no idea who it is. 

Granted, Runaway Dancer does have some nice vocal harmonies, but when I hear it, I just don't think Brian Wilson.  But, in general, I'm not as fan a fan of some of Brian's "outside the box" moments as others here.  But, that's just me. 

Or maybe people don't like the song and have no agenda like you so arrogantly and wrongly hallucinate.

Calling one song EDM is a slur against MELINDA. :lol That is some pure, grade-A insanity. The only thing your list reveals is that you think those are negative. If we jump back to our review, we can see the song is classified as a "sh*t" EDM song (and not by me), which obviously means that "EDM" itself does not imply such a descriptor. This same thing is exhibited through the rest of the review. I swear, the reading comprehension of some of yous...



Maybe, but not by me. I'm perfectly willing to accept this is what Brian wants. I still wouldn't think it was good. As stated clearly in the article, we have issues with the production of Brian's album with Scott Bennett. Therefore, we do not only have production criticisms for albums associated with Joe Thomas. I called TLOS "sugary sweet," and Judd called it "lacking in subtlety." Would you like us to have been more negative in our assessments?



Wow, no; that was never inferred. And are you asking if there really is two of us here, and not just the work of one maniacal poster? There are two reviewers. Plural. S.



What in God's name are you talking about? The only person we brought up is Peter Hollens. He's just some guy on YouTube that does a cappella originals and covers of traditional songs. Were you familiar with him before this album? I sure wasn't. Of course, that doesn't mean Brian wasn't, but he's certainly not a big-name guest star. As for Zooey, I know nothing about their relationship. As has been explained here on this board, they already knew each other.



Seriously, what? You do realize that we're reviewing No Pier Pressure, right? And not That Lucky Old Sun? Are you familiar with the red herring fallacy? I'm becoming confused by people's displeasure with the analysis of the lyrics. They're a part of the music, right? Guys? I praised the lyrics from Kacey Musgraves... or is that me secretly, uh, slurring her? WHAT IS THIS ARGUMENT

Allow me a moment of going off topic and apart from Runaway Dancer to share something I hope will be enjoyable for some who might not be into "EDM" or dance/techno/electronica in general.

This is not EDM, in fact it was more from the rave scenes in the UK from the 90's, label it however is fitting. The Chemical Brothers, 1997 with a video directed by Spike Jonze.

This is in my opinion one of the finest music videos ever made, and a near perfect combination of the visual and the art of video directing and editing with music. It shows that Spike Jonze was/is much more than the guy playing the old lady in Jackass, and in my opinion he owned the area of music video as an art form. He took elements of his earlier influences with skateboard videos and street directing with fast edits, slo-mo, and quick cuts and found perfect combinations in the music that was coming out in the mid 90's, specifically the Chemical Brothers, Beastie Boys, Fatboy Slim, etc.

This video for Elektrobank is a masterpiece, in my opinion. Sofia Coppola plays the gymnast, and you need to take note of every scene and cut, especially to the audience members, to see just how many layers this video was working on as a storytelling device. The audience doesn't say a word, yet you can piece together the gymnast's story just by simple 3-5 second visual cuts. The action scenes of her performance are taken from the way the early skateboard and BMX videos would use extreme panning, tight cuts between viewpoints, and slow-mo/sped up effects to compliment the music. There is a brilliant editing sequence and vari-speed effect at the climax of the video, where the song itself does a similar transition into an explosion of sound.

So this is electronica and dance, from a time period where the art of the music video in the hands of talents like Spike Jonze were in perfect timing with the kind of music that was starting to get into the mainstream. Call it rave, call it EDM...when you watch the way this video melds with the music, you don't need to be E'd up and chewing on a florescent pacifier somewhere in the UK in 1998 to appreciate it, nor does this have to be presented by a celebrity DJ at the nearest EDM festival to crowds waiting for the bass to drop.

Just give it a chance with an open mind, and I hope the sheer beauty and artistry I see in this music video will at least open the possibility to explore more electronica or dance music, from whatever era. But this stuff in the 90's...they were tapped into the great wellspring of creativity, innovation, and pure art that comes along once or so every generation when it all lines up the right way.

My opinion, sorry in advance for off topic...here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0dxByaPWhM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0dxByaPWhM)

I don't mind if you elaborate on/post links to EDM songs or talk about music in general. That's perfectly fine and fits within the confines of this thread. Perhaps I should clarify that neither Judd nor I have any problems with electronic dance music. I didn't think I would need to, but there ya go.

This thread is comedy gold. And full of cult tendencies.

Same question. Cos I did try to distinguish between a pro review that claims authority, and all that jazz, and a message board review that's informative, honest and entertaining in the ethereal sense of message board posts and written purely from the standpoint of love for the artist. And we have to bear in mind that any album from any artist should stand up to being reviewed in isolation, on it's own merits, in the context of anyone's musical taste and experience. An LP/album isn't like a "Gore-Tex" jacket that has to shape up against others, it's a standalone work of art after all.

(http://davelandweb.com/entrance/images/2000/2010/DSC_6196.jpg)

A "reviewer" from PopMatters actually tore this album to shreds and claimed that Brian had never heard of Zooey Deschanel prior to this album...which is proven untrue by doing a quick Google search (Brian had been interviewed by her years before NPP). That "reviewer" used a plethora of other bogus information in that "review"...I really hate seeing that crap, because unknowing fans will actually believe that nonsense and then spout it later. Which is partially why I think many people (including myself) are so defensive about this album...too many assumptions based on bad information have been made.

That being said, I'm sure Brian was given a list of possible collaborators to choose from for NPP....and given the quality of the songs we got it's clear he was thrilled to work with them. If this idea about interlopers making Brian's records had any sort of validity I think we would've seen a paint-by-Brian/Jeff Beck collab album released. But it seems that Brian wasn't thrilled with the collab and thus no album was made.

Anyone who takes the time to research this album will find that yes, Brian Wilson's name is on the album for a reason. Interviews with the collaborators show that Brian was meticulous about the vocals (Musgraves talked about how she had to do so many takes of the vocal before Brian was satisfied, she talked about the conversation(s?) they had regarding the lyrics, Nate Ruess talked about Brian coming up with the "wah wah wah" vocal on the spot in the studio when they were at the mic). There are plenty of other anecdotes floating around regarding the tracks.

Lazy reviewers and commentators often don't let a silly thing like the facts get in the way of their "opinions".

In the case of Zooey Deschanel, not only is there that interview Brian did with Zooey, but her dad Caleb was the cameraman for Brian in 1966 when they filmed the Good Vibrations promo clip, and Zooey also babysat Brian's kids.

So that's just one glaring example of a reviewer talking sh*t about things he or she has no clue about, and which ultimately has nothing to do with the task of reviewing a new album or song.

Though, didn't Brian claim not to know her before that first interview? If I recall correctly, Brian did not seem to know who she was when she started the interview. He did warm to her and it was a nice interview.

How is this related to the Judd/Josh review?

The conversations on the first few pages of this particular thread show a "love for the artist"? Show those pages to people totally unaware of anything related to this and ask if they can feel the love being shown through all the expletives and negativity.

Seriously John? If this was a sign of love, I'd hate to see the results if such a "review" were done for an artist that was hated. And if this is informative, I must have missed those sections because I didn't see info being offered that was anything new or useful to further analyze or interpret this album as the discussion unfolded.

It isn't unless you want it to be. I was replying to the comments in the post I quoted and the previous examples of incompetent and uninformed reviews cited in that post. Reviewers like the guy from Pop Matters who actually came on this board and demonstrated again his basic lack of knowledge about the subject matter he was tasked with reviewing.

You seem to be ignoring all of his actual points in favor of debating with a total of five, randomly-selected words from his post.

Damn Craig, the whole thing was done for fun. Lighten the f-up. I wish you'd act like this when all devolving threads concerning Mike, pop up. They weren't ripping Brian personally, it was just an irreverent review of the music. Like we are told in other threads; Don't like it? Don't read it.

Not everybody will get or can handle this review, that is noted, now back to B & D's review.

Seriously, B & D, how about "Looking Back With Love"? 

If you don't have it, it used to be available on Youtube I think. C'mon. You know you want to.....(making tickling gestures).....it would be fuh-uhn......(hopping from foot to foot)...for us, anyway.

It's fun to rip apart an album publicly? So this was a parody, a put on instead of what they really feel? I'd like to know.

Fer chrissakes.... THIS TRUTHFULLY REPRESENTS HOW WE FEEL ABOUT THE ALBUM. WE ARE OF SOUND, MIND, AND BODY, AND THIS REVIEW WAS NOT CREATED UNDER DURESS.

Yep, I'm not feeling the love shining through as I'm told I should be feeling when reading the "review".

Rip apart? It is an opinion, stated in a fun and stylish way.  We don't have to agree with them.

So it was done for fun, it was supposed to be read as irreverence, but it's a truthful representation of how you feel? Might want to clarify that with Dr Beach Boy, if the review was actually intended to be your true feelings rather than irreverence done for fun.

Believe it or not, both are possible at the same time.

Please be a good moderator and stop acting this way. Please.

.

Yep, chock full of fun and style, on par with a pair of steel-toed workboots and safety goggles.

OK. You're entitled to your opinion. I disagree with this and your insinuations about B & D.

Is THAT what this was about? Now it's more clear.

What on earth does being a good or bad moderator have to do with engaging in this conversation and discussion? I'm asking questions and offering replies, is that "misbehaving"? Maybe we'll have to rewrite those rules yet again...back to the ol' drawing board.

If you solicit opinions and reactions, at least be prepared to accept what comes in no matter who is replying. That's what an open forum does, it's a place for discussion.

Cam, what insinuations have I made about either one of them? Please give me an example and I'll address it. I originally asked "Dudd" a question about his change of mind since 2015, and he still hasn't replied, and the rest is just a rolling commentary and continuing discussion.

What insinuations have there been coming from me?

Well, their comments informed my listening experience but given that they were throwaway comments on a message board only adds weight to my perception of their value.

As for the "love" element, ever read Congrieve's Way of the World? He premise is that the main character loves the object of his passions for [/]her faults, not despite them, and I get a sense of that for other posters in this thread too.

Now, I also tried to distinguish between the professional reviews and those that are out there for the love. Where is that line drawn? I dunno. I've had too much of this Dalwhinnie tonight and my line is blurred. Far as I'm aware these guys spoke about NPP from their hearts (aka "stated their current opinions") for no recompense. For the sheer pleasure of speaking openly. No obligations. And I admire that, really appreciate them putting their opinions and themselves out there,; gotta leave it here cos the phone's nearly dea

d.

When it gets recharged and workable again, consider too the old adage "don't piss on my leg and try to tell me it's raining."  :)

Are you not making insinuations against their intentions?

Yeah, sure, man. This thread is all about you. Glad you figured it out finally.



The fact you have to ask that question in light of you behavior just shows how you have no understanding of your role.

I'm off to go get the Hickeyscript up and running.

I read a comment that tried to tell me the criticism on the first pages of this thread was coming from a place of love, and I replied that not only didn't I feel that love shining through, but I'd challenge anyone to let a person totally removed from any of these topics or issues read through the reviews and ask if they thought it was coming from a place of love. Or words to that effect.

If there are any takers, I'd like to see the results.

As far as making insinuations, point me to a comment where you think I did that Cam, and I'll address it.

Actually I wasn't referring to anything that you had said. I was simply complimenting Guitar fool for trying to get the train back on the tracks by defining EDM. But now that it seems i may have touched a nerve. Let me point out the following  text from Wikipedia about  No Pier Pressure......." No Pier Pressure is the 11th studio album by Brian Wilson. released April 7 2015 on Capitol Records. Peaking at 28 on The US Billboard 200"    SO FAR ACCURATE...... Next is what I do not understand...."The album received mixed reviews which largely  criticized its adult contemporary arrangement , ( by whom outside this message board?)  production and auto tune directions which were allegedly at the behest of co producer Joe Thomas...."  ( also by whom outside this message board? )  Ive talked to a hundred people in Nashville about this record. Ive never heard any of those comments. And while Nashville doesn't define the world, Im sure that it is a pretty good representation of the musical cross section of america. So words from this board DO have quite an impact on Brian's legacy. This is Wikipedia!  When you say that these and  comments like this does not equal to  criticism of the artist , I would say , you  are incorrect. Im not at all sure who writes the bi lines in Wikipedia, but that certainly seems to me like criticism of the artist. It had to be influenced by the numerous claims on this board......The endless inferences that people are secretly auto tuning vocals came from THIS Message board!   Many of us  outsiders have read direct  quotes from the guest artists like Kacey  M that Brian stacked her vocals Numerous times. These quotes are in real magazines who tend to avoid sensationalist claims in fear of actually getting sued. Yet we don't seem to believe them!  Im not sure  how Brian's publicity team corrects this, but I would sure try....... . As for the mixed reviews, Wiki seems to select three reviews including this Pop Matters guy. Isn't it a little sad that when the world outside this message board reads about NPP, they read mostly slurs and accusations based on conjecture? Much of the Wiki page and much of the early days on this message board were driven by this auto tune b s. We gloss  past the fact that the album actually debuted at #28! Im guessing  pretty good for a guy in his 70's, the rest of the description is polluted by inferences from three reviewers who obviously have an anti guest collaborator  or co producer agenda. So I applaud folks like Guitar Fool for defining and pointing the arrow in the right direction, because I am sure that if the members of this post shut down some of those conspiracy theories, they would have never reached WIKI.  BTW  who  actually does write the Wiki page accounts? And Im all for  opinions  such as ......I don't like the way Brian's vocals are sounding these days, or I would have liked to see xyz as a collaborator, instead of Zooey instead of ........ it must be someone else's idea to put Sebu on the record because Brian would never choose to allow his songs to be produced that way if he had a choice!

Look, if one has an opinion about the music, no matter what it is, they should be prepared for any kind of feedback. Especially if they write something like:


This is a Beach Boys message board, and the most prominent member of that band is Brian Wilson. So I'm kinda perplexed that people are shocked that there would be negative feedback on a multi-post review of Brian Wilson's album that calls some of the music "turgid, worthless, safe bullcrap"...especially since Bubs made it clear that the opinions expressed were how they truly feel about the album. I am totally cool if people have differing opinions, and I have to say, at least Judd and Bubs descriptively laid out their case (unlike many "reviewers" who flocked to this site to give their one sentence "this album sucks" posts). But it should come to no surprise that people are offended by the opinions posted at the beginning of this thread.

No understanding of my role? I know my role: I'm an old, washed up Vaudeville hoofer on his last set of legs and almost plum out of jokes. But I love working the crowds.

Role as a mod you mean? Oh, that one again. What does that have to do with engaging in this conversation and discussion?

You answered your question in your reply imo.

I saw your reply buried in there somewhere, Cam.

I'm seeing several pages of two guys ripping an album apart, then Dr Beach Boy tells me to lighten up, it's fun and irreverent, to which one of the reviewers said it's their true feelings about the album. To which I still ask and reply, which is it then? Dr Beach Boy must have misspoke or had an incorrect feel for their intentions - Because any number of readers could point out a few selected lines from the "review" and not see the love shining through, nor see the fun in writing or reading...but if it was irreverence by design, the writers say it is not, it is an accurate expression of how they feel.

So who is insinuating what, exactly, Cam?

I just saw the insinuation in the review that the writers say the sincerity of selected lyrics was faked, so either they know something only the songwriters know about real versus phony sincerity at play as the song was written, or they're insinuating to the point of claiming "fake" sincerity in the lyrics.

Lot of mixed messages to sort through.

If you would like to read the reviews for this album, you can find two different aggregates here (http://www.metacritic.com/music/no-pier-pressure/brian-wilson) and here (http://anydecentmusic.com/review/7119/Brian-Wilson-No-Pier-Pressure.aspx). Be forewarned: the majority of reviews are scary and wrong, in that they are mostly middling and negative. Grab the pitchforks and torches, boys, we're gonna teach them a lesson.

Yep, botched that reply but fixed it.

I don't agree with your opinions above and I'm disagreeing with your insinuation about B & D's intentions as previously described, I guess we will just disagree about this too.

Why go that far, someone already created a "Many Negative Reviews Of No Pier Pressure" topic on this very board so everyone can have point-and-click access! There may even be some excerpts from student newspapers from Sweden or Australia in that collection, for those interested in undergrad collegiate music writers' take on things.

Cam - please spell it out for me, I'm not seeing it.

What was my insinuation about B&D's intentions? Please give me an example, or quote what i said so I know what you're referring to.

Craig, would you have gone through all this trouble to discredit me as a reviewer for my inexperience if this review was positive?

Done it, you'll see it.

Part 1 Revised: Shiny Happy People Holding Hands


Bubs:   I suppose we should start at the fucking great beginning that literally shoots rays of sunlight through my windows and into my brain and makes me happy and that’s the only time in my life I’ve felt true happiness

This Beautiful Day begins.

Bubs:   For some reason, I have a fuckin amazing a cappella mix of this a cappella mix of this

Judd:   Wait, what. Oh wait, yeah. I think Jesus handed it down to his disciple Mark, and he put it on SoundCloud.

Bubs:    This is an excellent beginner. Wouldn't you agree?

Judd:    Excellent! I'm partial to it; it's nice. I think that final chord sounds fabulous.

Bubs:   Really! Tell me what you like about it?

Judd:   I'm taken with the melody

Bubs:   I love the idea here

Judd:    I remember you fuckin loving that opening line; it starts the album very promisingly

Bubs:   I love the strings and the horn so much, I rub them against my skin before I go to sleep; they’re probably played by virginal cherubs

Judd:    I like the horn, too. I want to wrap it in my arms, so we can mutually keep each other warm during a harsh winter storm.

Bubs:   I picture rain drops on windows. Big fuckin sparkly rain drops. They could probably nourish this whole entire world.

Judd:    I like it because it’s like a glimpse into Brian’s goshdarn genius brain filled with music and sh*t and it’s like “boom bang pow! HERE’S SOME MUSIC FOR YOUR SOUL, YOU BITCH”

Bubs:   and those full, natural sounding harmonies! It’s like an acient, foreign tome came to life and yelled in an echo chamber! and the flute fanfare after the final chord--or maybe it's not a flute and it’s actually God whistling

Judd:    did you notice the genius edit on Brian's vocal at 1:01? I didn't notice it until someone pointed it out but once you hear it you can't unhear it and how amazing it is

Bubs:   let me put on the headphones so I can let the music enter my body in a more direct way; i need to feel it inside me judd

Judd:    okey dokes

Bubs:    wow, yes, absolutely phenomenal work on their part

Judd:   there's a genius jump to a higher note

Bubs:    I guess I wasn't really thinking of that as an edit, more like Brian’s FUCKING OUTTA THIS WORLD ABILITY TO SING

Judd:    yeah, listening to this is like being blown by Marilyn Monroe while floating on a cloud. CLOUD 10 CUZ WE’RE FLYING OVER CLOUD 9! YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

Bubs: I’d give birth to this song’s baby, and then I would raise it by myself, and I would still pay this song alimony because that’s how good it is

I read just like everyone else each of the commentaries on each track. I didn't know what was coming next. There could have been one track forthcoming in the discussion that got wild praise - which is why I didn't say a word until it was all through and other readers had their say. I was definitely not the first nor was i the only one to have something to say after opinions on the article were actively sought by the author. I'm still waiting for and hoping Dudd addresses my question, no joke or setup - it's my own curiosity wondering what caused such a change in opinion from a 2015 post. But if he doesn't want to engage a conversation, that's cool too.

It was through other posters' comments that I assume were posted in agreement with either the comments or the thread itself that brought out other points, among them the EDM labeling of Runaway Dancer and subsequent discussions, and your own admission that you were not as familiar with Brian's solo albums as I had expected you were based on the way some of the comments were written. After reading that, again a self-admission totally unprompted by any challenging or badgering from anyone, I thought some of the comments coming from someone who might not be as familiar with Brian's solo material as the tone and content of the commentary would suggest might come off being perceived - in retrospect - differently than what I and maybe others assumed was coming from a certain familiarity with what Brian's solo efforts sounded like versus what he is universally known for via the classic Beach Boys productions.

I would say just on a personal note, if you are not as familiar with Brian's other solo albums, if you do not own copies, if you have them but haven't listened to them, whatever the case...whether or not doing a review that ends up being positive or negative would be the result, I'd suggest in the spirit of sharing good music with other listeners to the point of maybe finding that one song or even that one moment new to your ears that reaches in and grabs you emotionally or otherwise, those really cool musical moments that you have to stop and rewind to hear repeatedly...I'd recommend taking the time to set aside an hour a day to listen to something like the Gershwin album, revist TLOS, maybe even pull out the Christmas album in May, go back to Disney or GIOMH, whatever works...and listen first instead of putting all this time into posting a review/discussion that has as many people seeing it as negativity as are praising it as irreverence and good fun for the board to read.

Just my opinion, not worth any more than the face value of the words on the page. But I'd seriously consider spending some quality listening time on those solo Brian albums you don't know as well, and maybe some small part of what you hear in that music will put a smile on your face and set up a good mood for the rest of that day, which you can then share with people here just the same as what you posted on these first 4-5 pages. If negativity is your thing, it doesn't matter what I think, because that's your choice and yours alone on what you put out here for people to read.

Part 2 Revised: Praise the Sun, for It Is the Face of Brian Wilson


Runaway Dancer begins.

Judd:    praise god, that sax is better than sex

Bubs:   That is probably the most unintentionally genius transition I've ever heard; I've listened to all of his albums so I can say that competently and reliably

Judd:   I read on some review that the synths on this song sound exactly like Wonderful Christmastime, and the more I think about it, Wonderful Christmastime must be like listening to a volcano erupt underwater because it's been compared to this Mona Lisa of song

Bubs:    “My feelings on this album can be summed up adequately by one exact shiny moment on this album, and that is the transition from "This Beautiful Day" to "Runaway Dancer". One moment, I'm experiencing bliss, assured that Brian can still make beautiful music. The next, I'm hit by a train of gold with "BRAIN MASSAGE" written on the front of it in the blood of a virgin.” How I’ve described it before.

Judd:   ah yes. it's a really mind-and-body inhabiting Ecstatic Diamond Music song

Bubs:   let's be real: this sort of salvation is what everyone's looking for from Brian. TAKE ME TO HEAVEN, BRIAN

Judd:   THIS IS SO SINCERE AND WONDERFUL.

Bubs:   this has got to be the biggest good experience on anything I've evered. The way it's structured is like two kisses on the face: it starts with that sex sax and some exquisite snapping, like you wandered into a fucking great jazz club dressed entirely in diamond-studded denim, and then synths start to fizzle like bacon in a hot pan and it all breaks loose.

Judd:   and the fist of God comes down, punches through whatever roof is in the way, and cranks the song. The outro once resuscitated me after I gasped too hard and inhaled a chair when I was listneing to this album. It's hard to sum up thoughts on this because there's so many and there's only so much room in my tiny, unqualified brain

Bubs:   I want to know who to send my first child to as a reward for creating this: the modern day equivalent of a Lost Sea Scroll

Judd:    wasn't it written in the late 90s? I suspect Jesus and Brian around the time of Imagination

Bubs:    we're not giving enough credit to Sebu, man of legendary band Capital Cities, who recently cured AIDS while also performing a concert

Judd:   Yes, he doesn't get enough attention for his saintly activities. I know he's a priest, but I'd let him have sex with me

Bubs:    I'm thinking his pale hand of righteousness steered the song in this direciton. anyway...

Judd:   who knows. to me this sounds pretty much pure-Jesus

 :lol

That's not a misplaced consonant, is it?

Incredible!  :lol

This new review is even funnier than the first!!  :lol :lol :lol :lol

Two people can have an irreverent conversation and still be speaking the truth. It is just the fashion in which they are doing it. Also, why are you like this with Brian, yet you let stuff go about Mike? I never see you get in the faces of OSD or Smile Brian? Do you only care when something is said about Brian? Do none of the other Beach Boys matter to you? Is this a carryover from being a mod on Brian's board? If so, do you get confused which board you are moderating? You are so one-sided in here that it makes me think that it may indeed be the case. This thread was doing fine until you arrived in here, now you completely destroyed it. It was actually nice in here while you gone.

This thread began as one of the better threads in recent memory, with two posters sharing some opinions with humor and insight. Nowhere to be found were whines about who was or wasn't banned, which faction reigned supreme, whether people not posting under their own names were cowards, whether the Sandbox was some Gehenna ... just a good little thread.

I think sweetdudejim was out of line with his post. Debbie, too. And then it all really went to sh*t. What the f*** are your problems? It was a funny little review of an album, not some kind of unjust prison sentence.

For a while it seemed like there could be solace in the general music and sandbox forums, but maybe not. Maybe you're all just doomed to swim in your own vomit and sh*t. Have fun.

I think people shouldn't be endlessly defensive in trying to defend criticism of someone from this band - even if the defensiveness comes from a noble and well-intended place in the poster's heart.

IMO this is true in this thread about the NPP reviews, as well as for people who go out of their way to defend Mike doing/saying stupid stuff. Some of Brian's material is just not top shelf stuff, some of The Mulleted One's production choices may stink, and it helps people reconcile and vent a bit with some ribbing. I laughed, and I love Brian's music very deeply, and I wasn't "offended".

Similarly, other people on this board really need to take a chill pill when posters point out some action by Mike is lame or stinks, because sometimes it simply IS the case.

Overly defensive behavior doesn't work. It's very much like the Streisand effect. Hammer away on the review, which is just an opinion, and keep it up over and over again, and then you get the "happy" "A+++" review as a result. I totally get some back-and-forth disagreement and conversation about it... but let's all just agree that the defensiveness can sometimes go too far, with unintended results.

Exactly! And no one even called it a "Steaming pile....", either. ;)

Part 3 Revised: War Is Peace


Whatever Happened begins.

Bubs:    very genius beginning; and middle; and the end, too

Judd:    and everything. the great thing about the ballads on this album is that they gently place their hands on my hips, rest their cheek against mine, and gracefully sway back and forth like they’re teaching me to ballroom dance, while all the snooty, rich girls look on in envy

Bubs:    ooh, the wonderful edge of pitch correction in that chorus. I love pitch correction. I detest inaccuracy and humanity.

Judd:    it just sounds so full of life; it’s like my ear is a womb and this music is impregnating me. They add a little bit just when you think it's gonna end and you’re crying because you’re sad it’s gonna end. I like that bit because it’s one of the few times my father decided to say he’s proud of me for listening to it

Bubs:   someone with muscular, serpentine arms goes for it on the cymbals. I heard they exploded when the take was over, and the fragment flew out and killed Chris Dorner, which is how it really went down

Judd:    That’s why my coffee told me.
 
Bubs:    Isn't that bass line from something 65 or 66? The awesome power of this album probably created a wormhole through which 1965 Brian was sucked, and he said hey brian you should add this bass line and they danced and sang and drank wine, and he returned and wept and canceled Smile because it wasn’t as good

Judd:    God, I love how it's just old tricks put into boisterously bangin’ new songs. my biggest love with this one in particular is how it seems like Brian ripped the essence from Southern California and From There to Back Again and pushed them together into one smaller and smaller ball until it exploded and shot out this song like a violent birth

Bubs:   I'm gonna pull up the lyrics for this one. “As the time goes by/And I wonder why/When I know the day is through.” I legitimately think James Joyce wrote those lines. Like, James Joyce and Virginia Woolf probably

Judd:    oh my god feed me with more lyrics

Bubs:   “The summer wine/My favorite time/The night that I met you.” are you thoroughly nourished

Judd:    nope

Bubs:    it’s phrases put together; once you untangle the images and cyclical meanings, the album case flips open, and a blinding, healing light emanates from the CD

Judd:    the chorus punched me in my amygdala until I was reduced to a hyperventilating, squirming ball of primordial emotions

Bubs:    Assume the position, my child, for there is more. "When I wake up in the morning/If I see that you're not there/If you're away I'll be OK/I know that you still care." this is basically a verse that cancels itself out genius. It reflects all the facets of a tumultuous relationship.

Judd:    How would you sum up that one?

Bubs:    music for a vacation spot commercial--if you were vacationing in Valhalla

Judd:    that's the next one

Bubs:    they are all reminiscent of eternal afterlife, bathed in the warm glow of eternal good

Judd:    touché.  the songs about old age tend to be the best. it felt weirdly intimate and genuine on Midnight's Another Day and the last three songs on TWGMTR. but for some reason on this one it transcends mere time and otherness. Through expressing his old age in such a way, Brian has achieve immortality.

I like NPP much more than do B&J, but I'm not so emotionally invested in my opinions that I can't appreciate a well-articulated contrary position, which B&J's review provided.

Pet Sounds might be my favorite record. Yet I would be interested in a highly detailed, song-by-song analysis by someone who was disappointed in the lp.

But that is just me and my own (sometimes) dispassionate nature. There should also be room in this whole world for more passionate, guitarfool-ish responses. And who wouldn't appreciate having a friend like Debbie?

B&J's review was fair ( though wrong-headed in my view), and not a cheap shot. But, some of the passionate disagreement it inspired was also fair.

Our Heavenly Father Brian™ approves of this review.

I really like this post.  :)

I wasn't gone, I just wasn't posting. Kept up with my daily reading of the board every day, some days more than others.

It's interesting that I'm the one who completely destroyed it, yet in this same thread you - for one - rather than talking about the music since we're reminded constantly that it's all about the music, chose instead to post remarks aimed at people who post to Brian's site and the site itself, and put this bizarre challenge of whether or not someone is a real Beach Boys fan to not just me, but more ridiculously aimed directly at another poster who has spent more real-life time in the presence of the actual, real-life Beach Boys both living and those sadly deceased than others would most likely ever dream of spending in three lifetimes. You ask "are you really a Beach Boys fan?" as a direct challenge to someone who worked in the Beach Boys offices and was at one time responsible for the fan mail that would come in for the Beach Boys...and I'm the one who is confused?  :lol

Someone who actually was there with the band...getting challenged by you on a message board as to whether or not they're a fan of said band...is beyond absurd.

Have fun wallowing in your delusion and trying to keep those fires stoked and burning, while fishing for those reactions. If you keep trying to pin stuff on me or anyone else you don't like, someday you might get lucky and one of your theories and claims might float closer to the truth, but it's fun watching you throw pitch after pitch over the catcher's head and go crashing into the backstop. Ball four.

That's how I feel as well.  And yeah, I don't let other people's opinions affect how I feel about the album. The only real quibble I have is with 'blaming' Joe Thomas for the production choices, when most of  it was the work of a certain guy with the initials BDW. If you like or don't like the production, it's being directed at the wrong dude! Opinions don't bother me...factual errors do.

I happen to love NPP very much , but if somebody else doesn't like it, so be it. No skin off my dick.  I happen to despise Imagination with a purple passion (an opinion shared by the same guy who produced NPP) but won't trip on those who feel otherwise.

For the record - In the most recent set of exchanges, I was asked a very direct question by one of the reviewers here, and what I gave in return was an in-depth and honest answer, along with a heartfelt recommendation since my opinion was asked. I have yet to receive a reply or even an acknowledgement in a similar spirit, maybe one is forthcoming, or maybe posting another round of these 2-way conversations and spending however much time it takes in that pursuit is truly more of a priority than "the music", or else it's more satisfying to share and post that instead of finding something to be happy or excited about through listening to new or unheard music and telling others about it. "Share A Smile" and all of that, too often it falls by the wayside.

What I wrote and said was exactly what I felt about finding and sharing music that makes people happy, and if it's someone's choice to post another series of parodies and irreverence instead, what can ya' do but try.

You are delusional. I have been a fan and followed this band since 1964, so don't go spouting your crap at me. Address what I asked you. Why do you defend only Brian and not Mike or the rest of the guys when threads get out of hand. You are quick to whitewash your moderating duties. I request that you resign your commission and give it to somebody who is more fair-handed than yourself. You are no moderator, you create more chaos than you do fence mending.

Here we go again, abandon the thread people, it's only to get worse from here.  :deadhorse

Welcome to Smiley Smile: Civil War, in theaters now!

Dear readers, I am forced to end this review and the listening of the album prematurely, though the music and its uncorrupted passages will forever exist in the space behind my eyes. When Zooey’s fiercely erotic vocals entered the song, my colleague fell into a state of silent reverie, and his face contorted into an unearthly smile of downy tranquility. After Brian's chant of “on the island”, a burning chill shot down my spine. The rain and wind began to beat against the window pane, and I shuddered a horrible shudder. Zooey returned with her lyrics about rent, the chair Bubs sat in began to vibrate vigorously, and a lizard-brained yell tore its way from between my teeth. The electronics began to fizzle, sparks flung outward from the outlets in the wall, and the lightbulbs above us exploded. But I knew in my heart of hearts it was a moment of righteous ecstasy. The whistling cut through the torrent like a knife, and a hole was punched through the roof. Rain and the brightest light I have ever witnessed poured through the new cavity at our heads, and Bubs began to hover above his chair. His last spoken message from this reality to the next one was to "take it slow,” and he shot through the hole in the ceiling, as if he were lifted up towards his salvation by the heavenly light to bask in God’s sanctitude.

As for me, I remain--vaguely. Following the holy transcendence of my friend, I, the only witness, have felt all the vigor leave from me. Where I once had fair, smooth skin, the canvas of my body is now dominated with meddlesome splurges of blotches and wrinkles. However, with these wrinkles has come a new world-weary wisdom. I am now old, and this is not the familiar world I once inhabited. My friends and all the familiar locations and spaces I have visited in life have shifted, and perhaps it’s time I do as well.

Such is the power of No Pier Pressure.