What's VDP's problem?

[Autotune]

My 2 cents. Please no anger these are just my observations or views. I respect others opinions that don't concur with mine.
Van Dyke always struck me as pretentious and bitter. Even in the 1971 Rolling Stone article he is nasty to Brian. Hey I love Smile and Sail On Sailor but Come To The Sunshine aside nothing else Van Dyke has done entertains me. I just don't like those kind of "too cool for school" people.  Mike isn't an angel, nor has he always done or said the right thing, but he has brought me far more entertainment (pre 1976) than Van Dyke and that's ultimately how I judge artists. I don't really care if someone is a jerk or not. The grooves matter nothing else.

I don't think Van Dyke has ever struck me as bitter. A bit pretentious, sure. That's his schtick; same as Mike's fun in the sun attitude.

I've never seen him as "too cool for school," either. What a curious thing to say. Do you think that the mere possession of a big vocabulary and musical ability means that someone is putting themselves above you? That seems pretty rockist and anti-intellectual to me. I mean, he has labored in the trenches for decades, churning out film scores and arrangements, without a lot to show for it. I don't think that's "too cool" at all -- it's someone who loves their chosen field so much that they have sacrificed for it.

I'm glad that you feel entertained by Mike. He has often been entertaining. But Van Dyke is the only lyricist who has worked with Brian who remotely equaled the music, and Surf's Up, Wonderful, Cabinessence and Heroes and Villains are perhaps the highest peaks of Brian and his band's output. Van Dyke's lyrics and conceptual framework are essential to the best music Brian ever made.

Those are good songs/recordings, but just that you like them doesn't mean they're the best. To each their own. Each and everyone of Brian's other collaborators' work is essential to the best songs they took part in.

[b00ts]

Anybody still mad about something that happened 50 years ago has by definition wasted their life away. 

Mike misunderstood VDP.  We get it.

So the end result, to Van Dyke Parks, is that Mike is somebody to be discareded and ignored for 50 years.  If anybody ever sees ANY good in Mike (like, for instance, enough to stand on stage and sing songs they wrote with him) then he doesn't understand it.


What a jerk Van Dyke Parks is.  Mike Love never hated anybody for 50 years.

VDP was a kitty 50 years ago for letting a grown man hurt his feelings, and he's a kitty today for still being mad about it. 

Wow Ron, making truisms that you can't possibly back up - this is so unlike you. "By definition," VDP has wasted his life away because, as you infer, he has "hated" Mike for 50 years. So what is the definition for wasting one's life away? Is it defined in Webster's? Or just Ron's fevered imagination?

Mike Love never hated anybody for 50 years? Are you privileged enough to have inside access to Mike's brain? I love Mike Love, but brother, when you post like this, you do him no favors.

The more I read from you, the more I think you are just trolling. If this is the case, bravo, I've been snared. If not, stating things in the way that you often do is unproductive and speaks to an insecurity about your own ideas. It may work sometimes on impressionable people, but most of us want to have a reasonable dialogue and are turned off by truisms and tautologies. You are becoming another version of oldsurferdude, without his saving grace: the funny persona.

"I'm Ron, and this is how things are. No more discussion." Do you talk this way to people in real life? Does it severely limit your circle of friends? Perhaps you should get a job as a political pundit. Seriously - is this schtick, or is this really the way you communicate? I'd imagine if you are indeed a troll, you are a skilled, intelligent troll who sometimes makes good and insightful points, only to ruin them with utter beligerence and hard-headedness. Frankly, it makes you look bad.

AGD can also be harsh, but for some reason he has never rubbed me the wrong way. Perhaps it is the fact that he is secure in his own ideas and his own charms - even in the rare instance that he is unyielding yet turns out to be wrong, I like the guy.

I suppose bothering to respond to this nonsense is, by the definition of Ron's Beligerent Dictionary, wasting my life away. Ugh. If you are really not a troll, try to step outside yourself and read your posts as if you were not the person writing them. You might be surprised at what you find.

[SMiLE Brian]

 
[/quote

You are becoming another version of oldsurferdude, without his saving grace: the funny persona.

I love Oldsurferdude's Myke and Bruth bashing because  it is funny and something different when everybody gives Mike more respect these days.

[b00ts]

You are becoming another version of oldsurferdude, without his saving grace: the funny persona.

I love Oldsurferdude's Myke and Bruth bashing because  it is funny and something different when everybody gives Mike more respect these days.
[/quote]
Agreed. It is an entertaining schtik and it has its place. The BS from this other guy needs to go, though; it is making this board into a toxic environment.

[18thofMay]

da don't Ron, Ron.

[SMiLE Brian]

You are becoming another version of oldsurferdude, without his saving grace: the funny persona.

I love Oldsurferdude's Myke and Bruth bashing because  it is funny and something different when everybody gives Mike more respect these days.

Agreed. It is an entertaining schtik and it has its place. The BS from this other guy needs to go, though; it is making this board into a toxic environment.

The quote system has our quotes mixed up. EDIT: fixed it.

[Autotune]

You are becoming another version of oldsurferdude, without his saving grace: the funny persona.

I love Oldsurferdude's Myke and Bruth bashing because  it is funny and something different when everybody gives Mike more respect these days.

Keep in mind that it took OSD many years to be perceived as funny. He has been posting the same tirade for over a decade now. In fact, I think that his perseverance rendered him endearing, more than funny.

Nothing funny about VDP's 40-year-old tirade, though.

[jardine (no relation]

Ok, let me get this straight: first vdp has "lady parts" and now he's being a "kitty"? Wow. I'm speechless. No, wait, I'm not. You are a jerk and your attitude towards women is AWFUL and shameful and stupid and archaic and childish and hateful.

 NOW I'm speechless.

[MBE]

My 2 cents. Please no anger these are just my observations or views. I respect others opinions that don't concur with mine.
Van Dyke always struck me as pretentious and bitter. Even in the 1971 Rolling Stone article he is nasty to Brian. Hey I love Smile and Sail On Sailor but Come To The Sunshine aside nothing else Van Dyke has done entertains me. I just don't like those kind of "too cool for school" people.  Mike isn't an angel, nor has he always done or said the right thing, but he has brought me far more entertainment (pre 1976) than Van Dyke and that's ultimately how I judge artists. I don't really care if someone is a jerk or not. The grooves matter nothing else.

I don't think Van Dyke has ever struck me as bitter. A bit pretentious, sure. That's his schtick; same as Mike's fun in the sun attitude.

I've never seen him as "too cool for school," either. What a curious thing to say. Do you think that the mere possession of a big vocabulary and musical ability means that someone is putting themselves above you? That seems pretty rockist and anti-intellectual to me. I mean, he has labored in the trenches for decades, churning out film scores and arrangements, without a lot to show for it. I don't think that's "too cool" at all -- it's someone who loves their chosen field so much that they have sacrificed for it.

I'm glad that you feel entertained by Mike. He has often been entertaining. But Van Dyke is the only lyricist who has worked with Brian who remotely equaled the music, and Surf's Up, Wonderful, Cabinessence and Heroes and Villains are perhaps the highest peaks of Brian and his band's output. Van Dyke's lyrics and conceptual framework are essential to the best music Brian ever made.

Mike's interest and growth through TM is sincere and if those are his views spiritually why attack that? The good in Brian's relationship with The Beach Boys far outweighs the bad at least if we are talking pre Landy. Even now I think all the surviving Beach Boys do love Brian and he them. They are a family and I for one can relate to their success and (thankfully not currently) their dysfunction.  I am a Beach Boys fan far more than I am of any individual in the band. I think they are special group who really went well together. I'm glad it wasn't just Mike or just Brian or even just Dennis (by far the best on his own) THE BEACH BOYS as a group were the best. If the Grammy's is anything to go by they are going to end it right.

Just because you like a group doesn't make them all equally talented, good or essential. And just because they have shared history doesn't mean that it's automatically right -- artistically or personally -- to collaborate again. The work will show us one way or another. Although Brian's repeated citation of the money to be made can't be reassuring, can it?

Well him using my name because I stated the truth about Brian ending Smile in an interview was pretty bizarre wasn't it? I gave and give Van Dyke a lot of credit for his words for the 1966 sessions, but pointed out gently that him leaving didn't exactly help Brian finish the record. Again all I can say is that his reaction to my mild critique shows the fact that he doesn't like anyone sticking up for the group.  I just think "too cool for school" described him because he always came off as though he had a superior attitude. He's just not my kind of person. Mike isn't totally either but he explained his side with class in the Smile box and had he not we would be calling him a coward. I never got to interview Mike or Van Dyke but like I do with everyone else in my book I would have let them each say their piece and then done the research to try to bring balance. I don't have an axe to grind until he posted this but I'm bigger than that and I've said the same things about Van Dyke here in my seven years of posting.

BTW I think Brian and Dennis were the most talented but I like how they all blended together and enjoy the best work from each of them.. They didn't all have an equal part to add but if you take out the contributions of anyone in the group and I feel you would have a lesser body of work. They and they alone have that magic blend when they mix their talents properly. If they do it right it will be great, if they don't well at least they did one last thing together.

Rockist and anti-intellectual? I hate rock snobbery as much as intellectual. I have no problems with bright people I just don't like being made to feel like he thinks he's better than me. If he wants to deny my career, or make light of it with the quotes than let him have his fun but it is smarmy.

[Wirestone]

All I can say is that for years Van Dyke had a publicly available e-mail address (he printed it in the OCA booklet) and would correspond with just about anyone who wrote to him.

Doesn't seem that elitist or condescending to me.

But yeah, if you take a swipe at someone, why is it amazing that they take a swipe back? Is Van Dyke less than human because he collaborated with Brian Wilson?

[MBE]

Didn't take a swipe, I just spoke my opinion. Him being out there for access doesn't mean he isn't a bit snobby. Please don't take any of this personally, I would be far more happy if he understood that I am not negating his work, I just don't agree with his take on things. Brian himself told me in 1999 that the post Smile years were great as far as how he and the band worked together. If it went down like Parks would have you think, Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, Sunflower, and Break Away all would not exist. 20/20, Surf's Up, So Tough, and Holland also all have key moments from Brian. It just wasn't this war between the group at that time and frankly I don't understand why Van Dyke would or should care what they do now. Smile was a hit two times, his 1966 and 1972 work with Brian is loved by many, me included. However I feel the story isn't Brian and the five assholes and nothing he can say will make me change my mind.

[Wirestone]

You spoke your opinion directly to him. Oh, sorry: "pointed out gently that him leaving didn't exactly help Brian finish the record." I mean, forget about how he actually did help Brian finish it in 2003. Or how he has always been willing to co-write and support Brian in the decades since.

That counts as a swipe, I'm afraid. And if you hope to be an author, you're playing on a public stage. Get used to it.

[MBE]

You spoke your opinion directly to him. Oh, sorry: "pointed out gently that him leaving didn't exactly help Brian finish the record." I mean, forget about how he actually did help Brian finish it in 2003. Or how he has always been willing to co-write and support Brian in the decades since.

That counts as a swipe, I'm afraid. And if you hope to be an author, you're playing on a public stage. Get used to it.

This is what Van Dyke is upset about. I did a three part interview http://www.examiner.com/pop-culture-in-national/i-can-hear-music-author-mike-eder-reveals-his-dream-project-on-the-beach-boys-1
and I guess he took issue with it. Part two is the part I would think he had a problem with, but I was again just stating what I thought personally on an issue I have studied since 1988. I did mention that he wrote some new stuff for Smile, but I admitted I liked his old lyrics better. That isn't a swipe.

I am an author and have been for over twenty years. I am used to it as I had trial by fire by David Leaf back when I was starting. I knew by not following the Leaf line of thought I was going to have some garbage thrown at me. I don't mind that. I was just asked a question in an interview and answered it. I did just email Van Dyke to explain my position because I felt it was only right, but he shouldn't drag me into statements that I find to be unbecoming. Just because he is Van Dyke doesn't mean he is any different from you or I. I treat him the same as anyone else. If I don't like something anyone has done in The Beach Boys world I say it. If I do I say that too. I'm just being honest. I don't know the man, but everything he has said in public in the last dozen or so years on the Beach Boys doesn't make him look good in my eyes. Thus I formed the opinion that he is bitter about it. I would of course give him an open fourm in my book to state his mind and give me his side. I just don't happen to like what I have read in other places. Aren't I allowed? Anyhow read the interview and then tell me what you think. Again no harm no foul personally.

[southbay]

Wish i could believe that, but anyone else just thinking in their gut: Man this new album is going to be awful.

I wish they'd just drop it. Enough attempts were made to tarnish their rep in the '80's - it'd be so much better if they just STOPPED! Let the bands incredible back catalogue speak for itself. Release more of the (superb) unreleased material from their prime if they really wanna release something.

Yeah it's nice to see 'em getting together in the Do It Again video, but that's the only nice thing about it. I'd just rather they got together in private and finally just left the legacy alone.

No, SIP can't be the last BBs album.

You mean the one VDP played on?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

You spoke your opinion directly to him. Oh, sorry: "pointed out gently that him leaving didn't exactly help Brian finish the record."

That's not an opinion...that's the truth. How in the hell was Brian going to finish Smile minus his collaborator? Of course, what many of us overlook is that Parks didn't leave  because of Mike Love...he left on account of Brian's 'behavior'.

[SMiLE Brian]

You spoke your opinion directly to him. Oh, sorry: "pointed out gently that him leaving didn't exactly help Brian finish the record."

That's not an opinion...that's the truth. How in the hell was Brian going to finish Smile minus his collaborator? Of course, what many of us overlook is that Parks didn't leave  because of Mike Love...he left on account of Brian's 'behavior'.

Didn't he also have a solo record deal waiting as well?

[MBE]

You spoke your opinion directly to him. Oh, sorry: "pointed out gently that him leaving didn't exactly help Brian finish the record."

That's not an opinion...that's the truth. How in the hell was Brian going to finish Smile minus his collaborator? Of course, what many of us overlook is that Parks didn't leave because of Mike Love...he left on account of Brian's 'behavior'.

Again I want to point out that he read an interview with me, but if he asked me to my face I would tell him the same thing. I don't blame him at all, but him leaving was not a good thing. Mike didn't tell him to stop coming around. He had a solo record deal and he took it. He thought it may help the situation as well. That's fine and again it's not something to blame him for. I just mentioned that as part of the many reasons the LP didn't come out. Not one word is unfounded in my interview nor here.

[MBE]

You spoke your opinion directly to him. Oh, sorry: "pointed out gently that him leaving didn't exactly help Brian finish the record."

That's not an opinion...that's the truth. How in the hell was Brian going to finish Smile minus his collaborator? Of course, what many of us overlook is that Parks didn't leave  because of Mike Love...he left on account of Brian's 'behavior'.

Didn't he also have a solo record deal waiting as well?

Yes and that's to me the main reason he left.

[SMiLE Brian]

Wish i could believe that, but anyone else just thinking in their gut: Man this new album is going to be awful.

I wish they'd just drop it. Enough attempts were made to tarnish their rep in the '80's - it'd be so much better if they just STOPPED! Let the bands incredible back catalogue speak for itself. Release more of the (superb) unreleased material from their prime if they really wanna release something.

Yeah it's nice to see 'em getting together in the Do It Again video, but that's the only nice thing about it. I'd just rather they got together in private and finally just left the legacy alone.

No, SIP can't be the last BBs album.

You mean the one VDP played on?

A great irony if I must say because Van Dyke was involved on both the most arty album (smile) and most commercial crap album (SIP)

[SMiLE Brian]

You spoke your opinion directly to him. Oh, sorry: "pointed out gently that him leaving didn't exactly help Brian finish the record."

That's not an opinion...that's the truth. How in the hell was Brian going to finish Smile minus his collaborator? Of course, what many of us overlook is that Parks didn't leave  because of Mike Love...he left on account of Brian's 'behavior'.

Didn't he also have a solo record deal waiting as well?

Yes and that's to me the main reason he left.

His ticket out of the SMiLE saga and the Beach Boys....

[MBE]

More or less.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

You are becoming another version of oldsurferdude, without his saving grace: the funny persona.

I love Oldsurferdude's Myke and Bruth bashing because  it is funny and something different when everybody gives Mike more respect these days.

Keep in mind that it took OSD many years to be perceived as funny. He has been posting the same tirade for over a decade now. In fact, I think that his perseverance rendered him endearing, more than funny.

Nothing funny about VDP's 40-year-old tirade, though.

was he M(iddle age)SD back then?

[SMiLE Brian]

You are becoming another version of oldsurferdude, without his saving grace: the funny persona.

I love Oldsurferdude's Myke and Bruth bashing because  it is funny and something different when everybody gives Mike more respect these days.

Keep in mind that it took OSD many years to be perceived as funny. He has been posting the same tirade for over a decade now. In fact, I think that his perseverance rendered him endearing, more than funny.

Nothing funny about VDP's 40-year-old tirade, though.

was he M(iddle age)SD back then?

MSD probably had more people agreeing with him as well when Mike was plain crazy  from the success of kokomo.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Can we PLEASE pass around a hat/start a fund to get OSD one of these:

http://vipnation.com/programs/beach-boys/

(Beach Boys: Ultimate VIP Package (Front Row + Meet & Greet + Soundcheck)

    One reserved ticket in the front row
    Exclusive meet & greet with members of the Beach Boys
    Personal photograph with the Beach Boys
    Special access to the Beach Boys soundcheck
    Specially designed tour t-shirt
    Collectible tour poster (limited, numbered)
    Official meet & greet laminate
    Commemorative ticket
    Exclusive tour tote bag
    Early entry into the venue
    On-site VIP host)


He really needs to be humbled by the presence of Mike  

[SMiLE Brian]

Lets start the OSD fund!