A Ten-episodes official web series on the SMiLE Sessions is now on YouTube

[Cam Mott]

Yes. I think we are finally getting closer to the nuanced reality. Whatever was taken as dislike was not really and was not about the album. It was more like wanting to understand the lyric you are supposed to interpret. Not being comfortable with doing your profession from laying on the floor while making animal sounds. Being momentarily taken back by the beauty but in the back of your mind wondering how your clients are going to feel about it. Being against was not an issue because they were never against, they were about making it happen, the leap of faith for Brian which they were all used to and gladly did. Imo.

[Billgoodman]

I can understand Mike's opinion, and maybe I would acted the same as he did in his place, but you should never be afraid of what your fans might think. Follow your muse. If that's 30 versions of Shortin'Bread for Brian, that's fine. If that means that Rivers Cuomo wants to rap, be my guest. Liz Phair same thing. Metallica and Lou Reed can make children records if they want. Artists thinking too much about what will sell or what their fanbase will support, tend to make bland recordings anyway. I rather hear a train wreck than a bland record. Sweet Insanity is better than In The Key Of Disney.

Mike Love gets criticism he doesn't deserve, but it should be noted that his remarks about VDP lyrics in the recent interviews make it seem like he was only in it for the money or for the fame. That's ok, and I like that he's honest about it.

[JohnMill]

I can understand Mike's opinion, and maybe I would acted the same as he did in his place, but you should never be afraid of what your fans might think. Follow your muse. If that's 30 versions of Shortin'Bread for Brian, that's fine. If that means that Rivers Cuomo wants to rap, be my guest. Liz Phair same thing. Metallica and Lou Reed can make children records if they want. Artists thinking too much about what will sell or what their fanbase will support, tend to make bland recordings anyway. I rather hear a train wreck than a bland record. Sweet Insanity is better than In The Key Of Disney.

Yeah but those other acts you mentioned all exist in an era where the medium itself has already been established.  Bands like The Beach Boys were in essence the building blocks for the industry that exists today in terms of a business model.  I was reading Dom's book the other night and he details how the Capitol suits balked at how much money Brian and the boys had spent making "Pet Sounds".  They didn't understand why such a monetarily allotment was necessary for the creation of an album by a "pop act" because they believed that within the next few years, The Beach Boys would be passe much like many pop acts that preceded them.  There was nothing to make them think or believe that in 2011 we'd still be talking about them and revering them as one of the greatest bands in the history of music.

Mike Love and really any pop musician of his generation were facing a dilemma that just doesn't exist today with artists that had already carved out a career like The Beach Boys had by 1966.   There was this notion that their careers had a definitive timestamp and date of expiration on them and the goal was to maximize your earning potential and make as much money as quickly as possible while your act was still marketable.  So risking alienating a portion of your audience may have been a justifiable concern for Mike Love just due to the fact that he was aware that his record company wasn't behind Brian's new direction and that the potential of "SMiLE" generating sales not up to par with previous release could signify that the band was in decline in terms of popularity and marketability.

[guitarfool2002]

Being in a role of leadership within a group, or being perceived as "ahead of the game" in any field, is a lonely place. If you are looking ahead to a place no one has seen as of yet, and no one is at your side for confirmation or validation, yet those following your lead may not be as confident in your direction as you may have expected them to be, where do you turn for that reassuring pat on the back? You have to be so self-confident at that point, backed up by a streak of competitiveness and wanting to shine, that you can go forward on your own terms.

And this is also what separates the innovators and the leaders from the followers, as successful and as "popular" as the followers may be in their fields. Were those considered innovators in their field in recent years thinking as much of their audience or their customers from past history and looking to please them by improving the existing product, or were they looking ahead a few years and seeking to develop something new that would change the status quo and improve or innovate on a much larger scale? Innovation can be a lonely place because you're navigating in the dark until you create the path.

Consider that when listening to Smile tracks on your iPod...

And consider also, as the initial reaction to Strawberry Fields was brought into the discussion, that both John Lennon and Brian Wilson expressed a very similar and very personal sentiment in their music, which was considered to be among the most innovative and new in the entire industry at the time. With John, he sang "No one I think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low", in effect questioning if he was either too far ahead of everyone else or languishing behind. And Brian Wilson sang (if he didn't write) the lyric "I keep looking for a place to fit in where I can speak my mind", much like Lennon searching for a place where he could relate to others facing the same situations, where you could either be so far ahead or so far off-track that no one is there to validate or support where you are going.

The fact that both singers were essentially singing the same sentiments at this point in history cannot be ignored.

[Synthesiser Patel]

Pardon the intrusion, and I don't have anything new to add, but I would like to offer a resounding "hear, hear!" to the recent thrust of this thread.

[Cam Mott]

I agree with Craig and Brian is that innovator guy with supreme self confidence that excited and inspired the group [label, Posse, neighbor kids, musicians, etc., etc. ] and got them on his ride.

Also it wasn't just Mike with the commerciality in the back of his mind, Brian explained early on that the commercialness of SMiLE was on his mind too, was even a reason he shelved it.

[Dr. Tim]

Moreover the SMiLE sessions show how the music was mutating so thoroughly and so fast that no one could fully comprehend it.  Mike was a pro, and did what he was asked, but you hear things like the Vegetables laughing demo and the "You're Welcome" parade and you can see why he would ask: what the hell are we doing?  How is this supposed to work, let alone sell?  And then, on the other hand, having to concede that Brian certainly put it all together for Good Vibrations. And then, on the other other hand, seeing Brian  - the guy who's been the big engine all along - slowly ungluing (the "Seconds" incident, the "witch" incident, the bad vibes cancellations, etc.).  Viewed in this light, the lyrics argument with Van Dyke was a pressure release for Mike, at which Van Dyke nevertheless could still take justifiable umbrage (recall that Brian failed to defend him at the time as well, as Steve Gaines and Peter Carlin relate).

[Jay]

Could Brian failing to back up Van Dyke be an indication that Brian himself didn't fully comprehend everything? Perhaps it all began to seem a little to weird for him too, but being essentially "the boss", he couldn't let on that it was all becoming a little to much for him to control.

[hypehat]

Moreover the SMiLE sessions show how the music was mutating so thoroughly and so fast that no one could fully comprehend it.  Mike was a pro, and did what he was asked, but you hear things like the Vegetables laughing demo and the "You're Welcome" parade and you can see why he would ask: what the hell are we doing?  How is this supposed to work, let alone sell?  And then, on the other hand, having to concede that Brian certainly put it all together for Good Vibrations. And then, on the other other hand, seeing Brian  - the guy who's been the big engine all along - slowly ungluing (the "Seconds" incident, the "witch" incident, the bad vibes cancellations, etc.).  Viewed in this light, the lyrics argument with Van Dyke was a pressure release for Mike, at which Van Dyke nevertheless could still take justifiable umbrage (recall that Brian failed to defend him at the time as well, as Steve Gaines and Peter Carlin relate).

Exactly. The guy has no idea, and then the slow realisation that Brian, the guy who is usually so together during these sessions is getting progressively weirder and different, you have to make a call.

I mean, you hear them all really enthusiastic to work on Wonderful on one of the tapes here! That goes against a conventional SMiLE-Mike-Love-Is-A-Cockfarmer argument.

wrt, VDP, his quote from Beautiful Dreamer is illuminative, though - He felt as if he was the one to be fighting that fight.

[Jay]

Clockfarmer? 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Could Brian failing to back up Van Dyke be an indication that Brian himself didn't fully comprehend everything? Perhaps it all began to seem a little to weird for him too, but being essentially "the boss", he couldn't let on that it was all becoming a little to much for him to control.

THIS.

[Cam Mott]

Yeah. Brian and Van Dyke's relationship has gotten a pass, but on the other hand I'm sure it is more nuanced than we think.

Why is so much made about Anderle's report of the Boys' supposed resistance [which is not what he means by my reading] and so little made of the deteriorated relationship between Brian and Van Dyke which is what he thought was the MAIN reason for SMiLE's non-release? Why is so little made of Siegel's claim of bad juju between VDP and BW? Why didn't Van Dyke sign with Brothers or why wasn't he asked? Why did BW call VDP in if he knew what the lyric meant and was on board with it; how could it even be an issue if the lyrics were already sung?  I don't think it had any bearing on the release or non-release of SMiLE because I believe all of it was irrelevant to if BW wanted it to be released. Continuing mysteries.

[vintagemusic]

THis is great kind of Beatle Anthology like, too bad there isin't a recent scene where they are all interviewed together
I havent seen the whole thing, but I'm going to download all ten parts and burn a disc and watch it several times

Man Bruce Johnston looks old, havent seen a clip of him in several years he looks like an old guy
who own s a gas station, motel truckstop in one of the towns in Mojave or something

[Andrew G. Doe]

Man Bruce Johnston looks old, havent seen a clip of him in several years he looks like an old guy
who own s a gas station, motel truckstop in one of the towns in Mojave or something

Yeah, whoever heard of a 69-year-old guy looking his age ? 

[JohnMill]

Could Brian failing to back up Van Dyke be an indication that Brian himself didn't fully comprehend everything? Perhaps it all began to seem a little to weird for him too, but being essentially "the boss", he couldn't let on that it was all becoming a little to much for him to control.

Well for the sake of counter-point here is an observation from Danny Hutton regarding a 1967 conversation between Mike and Brian about prioritizing Beach Boys projects vs. Brian's side project at the time which would've involved Hutton's band Redwood:

"I wasn't privy to the conversation, but Mike can be very forceful, so I guess Brian just bailed out.  We felt it coming; we didn't want to put Brian through it, so we said, "Look Brian, we understand.  We are just going to walk away from this.  This is getting crazy."  So that was it."

This quotation along with another from Hutton's bandmate Chuck Negron are detailed in Dom Priore's 2004 book "The Story of Brian Wilson's Lost Masterpiece".  Negron's comments are in my opinion some of the most biting indictments of Mike Love that I've ever read to the point where I'm not sure whether to believe them or not believe them.  Then there is this quote from Van Dyke Parks himself regarding his departure from the SMiLE project:

"...I was working for Brian Wilson.  ...But then, when I found out that it might have internecine and that I might come between brothers, I did the right thing: I left the job, because I did not want to become part of a conflict or create one."

For me the fact that we have two separate quotes from two different people essentially stressing the same sentiments tells me that in both cases if true, Brian felt a responsibility to acquiesce to the demands of his band.  Negron describes a sad scene indeed regarding the non-release of "Time To Get Alone" as a Redwood single claiming that Brian was chided by the band who wanted the songs for themselves.  

In December, 2004 Mike Love spoke in general about what was going on during this period to Mojo magazine:

“I know how I live, my values, and my philosophies. So, personally, I'm comfortable with it all. It does get annoying because it's an inaccurate picture of what actually happened. But when it's left to people who've written  books about Brian, it gets distorted. I don't blame people for coming to that conclusion, but it's based on inaccurate statements made by people who weren't there, or if they were, they obviously had an axe to grind because somewhere along the way, I told them to take a hike.”

[Cam Mott]

It's merda. {wink}

It's sort more speculation along the line of Anderle et al, they were there but they are speculating about other peoples' feelings, meanings, actions, intentions, etc..

Whoops, you edited your post while I was replying. Strike that "merda" comment.  I guess. Or maybe I dreamed it all.

[JohnMill]

It's merda. {wink}

It's sort more speculation along the line of Anderle et al, they were there but they are speculating about other peoples' feelings, meanings, actions, intentions, etc..

Whoops, you edited your post while I was replying. Strike that "merda" comment.  I guess. Or maybe I dreamed it all.

Yeah I took out my editorial as to my personal feelings on whether or not the claims were false to begin with.  For what it's worth I personally found some of the "Redwood" comments to be a stretch even if both Hutton and Negron seem to back up each others statements at least somewhat. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Have to say, I find the whole Negron thing deeply unconvincing.

[runnersdialzero]

And then, on the other hand, having to concede that Brian certainly put it all together for Good Vibrations. And then, on the other other hand, seeing Brian  - the guy who's been the big engine all along - slowly ungluing (the "Seconds" incident, the "witch" incident, the bad vibes cancellations, etc.).

What's being referenced, here?

[JohnMill]

And then, on the other hand, having to concede that Brian certainly put it all together for Good Vibrations. And then, on the other other hand, seeing Brian  - the guy who's been the big engine all along - slowly ungluing (the "Seconds" incident, the "witch" incident, the bad vibes cancellations, etc.).

What's being referenced, here?

The "Seconds" incident refers to Brian going to see the John Frankenheimer film "Seconds" and hearing "Hello Mr. Wilson" upon entering the theater.  He later told Jules Siegel that he thought Phil Spector had engineered the entire operation to mess with his mind

The Witch incident refers to Brian telling Michael Vosse to inform another one of the Posse (I believe it was Siegel) that his girlfriend could no longer attend Beach Boys sessions because he believed she was a witch and was messing with his mind via ESP.

The bad vibes cancellations refers to Brian's propensity to canceling sessions at whim due to the fact that he didn't like the day's vibes or the vibes in the room or whatnot.

[cablegeddon]

Did somebody already bring up the point that Mike previously had vetoed lyrics on Pet Sounds that he considered "drug lingo"?

I can understand that from Mike Love's perspective there was a risk that BW and VDP were writing about drugs and stuff that only related to LA kids.

[Micha]

And then, on the other hand, having to concede that Brian certainly put it all together for Good Vibrations. And then, on the other other hand, seeing Brian  - the guy who's been the big engine all along - slowly ungluing (the "Seconds" incident, the "witch" incident, the bad vibes cancellations, etc.).

What's being referenced, here?

The "Seconds" incident refers to Brian going to see the John Frankenheimer film "Seconds" and hearing "Hello Mr. Wilson" upon entering the theater.  He later told Jules Siegel that he thought Phil Spector had engineered the entire operation to mess with his mind

The Witch incident refers to Brian telling Michael Vosse to inform another one of the Posse (I believe it was Siegel) that his girlfriend could no longer attend Beach Boys sessions because he believed she was a witch and was messing with his mind via ESP.

The bad vibes cancellations refers to Brian's propensity to canceling sessions at whim due to the fact that he didn't like the day's vibes or the vibes in the room or whatnot.

IMHO a Brian of sound mind would have managed to finish SMiLE regardless of what the other BBs thought or said about the lyrics. And I think part of the myth of SMiLE is because in the past people imagined that the music of SMiLE drove Brian crazy and made a wreck of him. I say no, SMiLE didn't get finished because Brian developed mental issues like the ones described above.

[JohnMill]

And then, on the other hand, having to concede that Brian certainly put it all together for Good Vibrations. And then, on the other other hand, seeing Brian  - the guy who's been the big engine all along - slowly ungluing (the "Seconds" incident, the "witch" incident, the bad vibes cancellations, etc.).

What's being referenced, here?

The "Seconds" incident refers to Brian going to see the John Frankenheimer film "Seconds" and hearing "Hello Mr. Wilson" upon entering the theater.  He later told Jules Siegel that he thought Phil Spector had engineered the entire operation to mess with his mind

The Witch incident refers to Brian telling Michael Vosse to inform another one of the Posse (I believe it was Siegel) that his girlfriend could no longer attend Beach Boys sessions because he believed she was a witch and was messing with his mind via ESP.

The bad vibes cancellations refers to Brian's propensity to canceling sessions at whim due to the fact that he didn't like the day's vibes or the vibes in the room or whatnot.

IMHO a Brian of sound mind would have managed to finish SMiLE regardless of what the other BBs thought or said about the lyrics. And I think part of the myth of SMiLE is because in the past people imagined that the music of SMiLE drove Brian crazy and made a wreck of him. I say no, SMiLE didn't get finished because Brian developed mental issues like the ones described above.

There are so many quotations regarding Brian's state of mind at the time which while blunt as a spoon are probably spot on accurate.  The most often repeated I've ever heard (and I'm not sure to whom this quote is attributed to) is "Someone who was as emotionally sensitive as Brian was should have never fooled around with psychedelic drugs in the first place".

It's pretty much true, the nature of Brian's work gives him a face in what was a generation of many faceless people who unfortunately found themselves dealing with similar mental issues that Brian Wilson did some of which were exacerbated by exposure (either willingly or unwillingly) to psychedelic drugs.

[Cam Mott]

I think the role of drugs and mental health as a cause are a red herring, they are issues that may have been significant later but get mistakenly accredited as significant back to this period. When he is making the music, he is mentally organized and disciplined and decisive and on task. Sure he is also superstitious and getting high in his spare time but he is in full control of himself and everyone and thing around him. Nothing kept him from finishing it, he didn't want it finished, it was a Muse and commerciality issue for Brian and not a drug and mental health issue. Imo.

[The Shift]

I think the role of drugs and mental health as a cause are a red herring, they are issues that may have been significant later but get mistakenly accredited as significant back to this period. When he is making the music, he is mentally organized and disciplined and decisive and on task. Sure he is also superstitious and getting high in his spare time but he is in full control of himself and everyone and thing around him. Nothing kept him from finishing it, he didn't want it finished, it was a Muse and commerciality issue for Brian and not a drug and mental health issue. Imo.

Agree with most of that Cam, but I think the drug use would have started to bring on a sense of paranoia. That wouldn't necessarily affect the quality of Brain's work but he would be becoming more and more anxious to finish it, more and more meticulous about minutia and less able to see the bigger picture.

The commerciality concerns would only add to the pressure.

Eventually he'd perceive it all as a mishmash of brilliantly executed snippets that he couldn't weave together without adding more snippets, and more confusion, to the pile.

Stress, anxiety and paranoia. In extremis, hard to come back from.

I'd guess that when he finally decided to can it, he'd've felt a huge weight lifted from his shoulders but for the fact that he still had to deliver a product to Capitol. His later withdrawal from that intense workload would have been a necessity and projects like Redwood, with less pressure and less expectation, might have been a welcome, relaxing distraction.