Why a reunion won't happen.....

[Wilsonista]

Brian was the master chef and the individual guys were the ingredients in the chef's gournet feast.

It isn't lazy rock journalism to point out that Brian led the BB during the years where there music became part of the cultural fabric. 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

And I'm not denying that!

But the myth that Brian singlehandedly invented/created the Beach Boys formula is false!

[Wilsonista]

Seems to me that a moderator also repeated the myth.

And you didn't bitchslap him.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I'm not bitchslapping anyone!

And to be honest, enough people have perpetuated this myth to fill all the stadiums The Beach Boys ever played!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

and who is a moderator but another fan like the rest of us???

[Surfer Joe]

"On a separate issue, whatever kick-start the Beach Boys got from the surf (Dennis)-and-car (Gary Usher?) gimmick, they sure paid for it later."

Ok, speaking of subjectivity!!!!!!

Subjective, sure, but I bet a lot of people would agree with it, and I bet  just about every band member, including Mike, would agree with it. At some point- not always- the beach became a stone around their necks.

[Surfer Joe]

I really don't get this hardcore desire to make Brian singlehandedly responsible for it. I simply don't. I just chalk it up to lazy hero worship and lazy "rock" journalism.

Thanks for pointing out to me how flawed my entire thought process is and how shallow and unthinking I am for seeing things differently than you.

I love every member of the band and value their contributions.  They were matchless as a singing unit and Mike has a great bass voice.  I like him tremendously as a lead singer, too.  But I must say that I don't see "nasality" as the cornerstone of their success or as a striking innovation. 

The "Beach Boys formula"- as I've said, I don't know exactly what that means.  It's a highly subjective term. To me, the essence of the Beach Boys was the songwriting- especially the melodies- the production, and the singing, and those three things came primarily from Brian's brain.  It's worth noting that he had his first number one hit away from the group (and they had their last without him, a quarter century later). I think he worked very well with the guys, and at times worked very well without them.  They did some good work without him, too- mainly Dennis, much later. But if you stack up the best of the Brian-driven material on one side and best of the not-Brian material on the other, even with all of Dennis' great stuff, I think Mr. Wilson's legacy is pretty secure. Just an opinion, again.

So yeah, my thoughts are definitely subjective, as are most people's.   But no agenda, no "hardcore desire" involved, they're just my own opinions.  And I don't regard your view as a "myth", and I won't wag my finger at you for posting it.  I don't think it's the result of lazy hero worship or the thrall of rock journalism.

[C.Miller]

So Brian foaded with his own formula? 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Jeez! Wag your finger then talk about how you "won't" wag your finger??

I am ONLY talking about that initial spark of the Beach Boys formula coming together!!! I'm talking about 1961 here and nothing else!! Just those crucial elements that came together to create the template of what the Beach Boys took and ran with!

Yikes!!!!

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

And I think Mike's nasal/talk-sing thing WAS an innovation! And to claim something as an innovation doesn't exactly qualify it as something genius to be exaulted to high heaven like every single thing Brian's ever done. But it WAS different and made the Beach Boys stand out in a simple way! Aside from all the other points that made them stand out.

People really do have a hard time getting their heads around collaboration!

[TdHabib]

Still getting over your new avatar RobMac...makes me laugh silly.

[Surfer Joe]

Jeez! Wag your finger then talk about how you "won't" wag your finger??

Well, we continue to disagree, then.  I said I won't chastise you for posting your opinions (though I will disagree with those views at times), and I didn't. 

This is generally a laid-back and civil board- if you're looking for a Beach Boys Fight Club, I think they're out there for you. maybe someone could post some links. If I ever do change my mind and wag my finger at you, you'll note the difference.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

a laid back board until someone disagrees with general concensus! 

[Surfer Joe]

Congratulations- I think that's all 21 of your posts that I've disagreed with, or what I've read of them.  All the contention here is coming from you taking an insulting and overbearing tone, and not liking having that pointed out.

It's been a remarkably peaceful and civil board since I got here, to some older version of it, in 2004 or so, and people disagree here all the time, but respectfully and as friends for the most part.  (Except when Andrew clubs us like baby seals, but  he only does that when we're asking for it).

Relax, have a beer or a glass of wine, and resign yourself to a world in which Brian Wilson receives more acclaim than you think he deserves. 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

insulting and overbearing tone?

This brings up that old word "subjectivity"

Ok, you can have your cave and carry the bigger club!

[Surfer Joe]

I think you and I would define the bigger club quite differently.

I'd really like to burden the board less with this increasingly pathetic and shrill personal exchange; I think you'd love to make it a star attraction.  Again, I hear there are some nasty Beach Boys boards out there where this kind of thing is welcome, if you'd just go look for 'em.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

insulting and overbearing?

who are we talking about here?

[Surfer Joe]

Right- I should have said "attempts to be insulting and overbearing". Don't think you could actually overbear anyone from what I've seen so far.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

and I would never even think of overbearing anyone!

you are taking this way too far and much too personal!

If I'd take back anything I've said, I'd take back the part about "lazy hero worship" (which is what you seemed to really take offense to) I should have just left it at "lazy rock journalism" which is a point I can defend. And I really only meant lazy hero worship by certain writers.

We just feel passionatly about two different points of view, and both are valid.

[Surfer Joe]

Just to get the conversation back onto the subject, and since no one responded to these:

Brian didn't tell Mike to sing in a nasal voice and sound like some punk kid, did he?

To his credit, no.  And I don't think that describes Mike's singing fairly at all.

Did he decide to write about surfing ?

Yes, after Dennis' suggestion.

...(and it's absolutely silly to claim that the subject matter had nothing to do with the BBs early success. And it demonstrates and ignorance toward pop music history in general)

Agree, that's why I never said any such thing.

Did he force Carl to become a Chuck Berry obsessive and to want to bring that element to their music?

Arguably yes, (though of course he didn't "force" Carl) since using Berry as the template for "Surfin" USA was Brian's idea.  They all loved Berry; Brian brought him directly into the sound with "Surfin' USA", "Fun. Fun, Fun", and others..

Did he decide to put in the doo wop style bass vocal from Mike?

Arguably yes, since the doo wop connection went back to their youths, and Mike has often cited Brian's obsession with it, and since Brian provided the melodies and arrangements that brought it in the door.  But I'd split the credit with Mike there.

I think the answer is no to at least 3 if not all of those questions.

And I don't.  But the sun will still rise tomorrow.

[Surfer Joe]

you are taking this way too far and much too personal!

Not taking it personally at all, just responding to comments directed at me.

We just feel passionatly about two different points of view, and both are valid.

And here at last, we agree.  I'm not as passionate about the subject as you, since I'm in the middle ground, but glad we agree to disagree and please consider any insults from me withdrawn with pleasure.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Agreeing is nice!!!! And yes, here we do!

We both love this band therefore are really on the same page when it comes down to it!

Speaking from passion and from anger can sometimes feel like the same thing...... I shall be more careful of those lines blurring from now on!

So, with that I think I'm liking your suggestion about having a little wine! 

[Surfer Joe]

Cheers, Erik!

[The Heartical Don]

*wipes sweaty forehead with a Kleenex*

Good. That this is not taken to court, I mean.

*walks out, but returns just before having shut the door behind him*

Gentlemen, there's still one slight thing that bothers me...

__________________________

Chief Superint. Columbo

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Haha, well, we'll have to have this discussion out of court and off the record. I certainly am not throwing my hat back in this ring. In fact, I don't think I'll be posting here anymore at all. My opinions on a couple of key topics are of such a minority, I feel I'd be better off claiming the earth is flat!