The Smiley Smile Message Board

Saw it over on the Steve Hoffman board...didn't notice it here...great news for audiophiles

Mastered by Kevin Grey

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/coming-soon-14-beach-boys-titles-on-vinyl-sacd-mastered-by-kevin-gray.335207/

(http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/attachments/bb-jpg.304876/)

Tough call. I bought my first CD player specifically to listen to a specific Beach Boys product. My first HDCD player specifically to listen to specific Beach Boys product. My first DVD player to listen to specific Beach Boys product. Same with a 5.1 system, a DVD player and even replacing my vinyl deck.now they switch to near-obsolete SACD* for a slew of reissues of stuff that's been reissued umpteen times in the last umpteen times.

They've lost me at last.

* My last upgrade was Blu-Ray, for specific Neil Young product. Where's Archives Vol 2, Neil?????

What are the albums?

check the link in the first post and you'll see an ad with the titles on the bottom right.

I can't. I have to be a member to check that

made an account quick, its

Surfin Safari
Surfin USA
Surfer Girl
Little Deuce Coupe
Shut Down Vol II
All Summer Long
Today
Summer Days
Party
Pet Sounds
Smiley Smile
Sunflower
Surf's Up
Holland

btw any idea on when these are coming out / price / individually or in a set?

What I don't understand is why they would choose Surfin' Safari, Surfin' USA, Little Deuce Coupe and the Party Album over Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20, and Love You! Then again it's just my opinion. But seriously, the Party Album?!

BBs Party; just, maybe, the greatest uber-cool album ever

And it includes one of the Beach Boys no. 1 singles.

Better Party! than 20/20, imo.

20/20 is one of their best albums imo.
I Can Hear Music, Be With Me, All I Want To Do, Nearest Faraway Place, Cottonfields, Never Learn Not To Love, etc. You can't go wrong!

As individual songs it's some of their best (esp. Be With me). But as an album, it just lacks cohesiveness. But glad you dig it!

Most, if not all, of the recent Sony Blu-Ray players will play SACDs.

Wow!!!  This is pretty interesting news.

The key things will be:

1) The quality of the mastering - will it be an improvement on any recent offerings from the Mark L/Alan B workshop?

2) If, yes at 1), will these be Hybrid SACDs?  Hybrid SACDs have a 16 bit/44,100hz layer that will play on any CD compatible device, AND a 24 bit/88200hz or 96000hz (or greater) layer that will only play on a SACD compatible machine (as was the case for the recent MOFI Pet Sounds).

If you don't have SACD compatible gear, but have HDCD compatible gear, there is probably little gain, other than collection or compulsion, to buy the new ones.

But if you do.....

Either way, the devil is in the mastering!

3) Re Sunflower - as per Mr Desper, the only official master should be as per the original artisan cut, or a matrix decoded master (and we wants that, precious)

At the end of the day, sonic analities aside, it's great that this fantastic music is available in a wide variety of formats and appealing to broad and discerning markets.

Because they want to make some money and actually sell a few of these?  I hate to break it to you, but the first three albums that you list define The Beach Boys and always will...even to the niche audiophile market that these releases are geared toward.  I agree that choosing Party! over say Wild Honey is odd, but ALL of their 60's catalog is deserving of remastering, not just the albums you like.

Surfin USA I agree. The debut isn't really surf, and they moved on to much better things, and LDC is in all honesty, their poorest album before the Party Album.
Also, I think that Pet Sounds/Smile define the Beach Boys more than their earlier stuff - after all it is their most famous releases

I see no-one's asked the burning question, so dammit, I'll have to:

Holland - with or without the Fairytale ?

… and the other question – maybe I've overlooked the answer to my own question – but which of the earlier albums will be mono and which stereo? Or will they be back-to-back both?

With the exception of Surfin Safari and Holland, this is the same list of albums that were re-issued in summer 2012, first in Japan and then everywhere else that whined loud enough!

Was this Kevin Grey involved in those? Could these be the same masterings?

Kevin Gray’s mastering work is excellent. I for one believe it will be noticeably preferable to most of the recent remastering work done on the Beach Boys’ catalog.

The remastering on the BB’s catalog in the last decade-plus hasn’t been nearly as problematic for me as the quality of the actual remixes, which have had too much reverb. The remastering has been too loud and not warm enough for my liking, but that has been less of a concern.

But Gray’s work from what I’ve heard is excellent; he goes the audiophile route of not mastering too loudly, and keeping everything sounding warm and clean.

The bigger question is what sources Gray will be working with? Original mono? Original stereo? Remixed stereo? All of the above? Going to the audiophile remastering route, it seems as though the only way it will be particularly beneficial is if he works on the original mixes. Not much point in “remastering” a 2007 or 2012 digital remix.

The fact that they are once again skipping over “Wild Honey” makes me wonder if they are basically going here largely for SACD versions of the partial album catalog reissues put out by Capitol a couple years ago. I just don’t understand why Capitol keeps putting out patchy partial album reissue sets. Frankly, while SACD’s done by Kevin Gray sound interesting, what we actually need are well-done deluxe album packages, 2-CD sets with mono and stereo and all the old (and new) bonus tracks for each album.

But if they are inclined to simply reissue the same albums again, I wish they would at least make it complete up to whatever the stopping point is. I get it, even audiophile labels that cater to niche audiences are probably not going to jump at the chance to do an SACD of “Keepin’ the Summer Alive” or “MIU”, but I wish they’d at least do all of the 60’s without skipping over “Wild Honey”, “Friends”, etc.

Aye, the absence of WH, Friends and 20/20 from these re-issue programmes is even more mysterious now than it is frustrating. The inclusion of Surfin' Safari in this latest set suggests it's nothing to do with the absence of mono/stereo masters. I think Holland showed up as a remaster ion iTunes at the same time as the summer 2012 group but I didn't follow proceedings to find out whether others were also released… and anyway downloading a remaster's like buying a Gregg's pasty on the promise of a fillet steak filling …

Where's Friends?  Where's 20/20?

GEEZ!

 :old

Excited if some of these will be an improvement over existing vinyl reissues I.e. Today and summer days. Maybe pet sounds could rival the dcc vinyl that's currently £100s. Probably won't bother with sunflower, surfs up, holland as have originals of those. Man, could have done with friends and wild honey though.

The purist in me hopes these are mono up to and inc pet sounds but wouldn't sniff at a vinyl of the stereo  mix of smiley. Love that new stereo mix.

.

How many fans who would bother to get these records on SACD or vinyl do actually prefer Surfin' Safari and Party over Wild Honey, Friends, or Love You?

Sunflower and Surf's up have yet to get a sympathetic and true to the vinyl and master tapes remastering IMO, so I 'm definitely up for these.  Holland also could see significant improvement.

The other titles have seen very good sounding releases on CD - Pastmasters! MFSL.  I would actually prefer an SACD of the stereo mix of Smiley Smile rather than the mono.  I doubt they would do both as that would compete with the mono/stereo releases from 2021.

I'm equipped for SACD, but I'm going to wait for further information before deciding whether to buy. I've got all of these albums several times on CD. I've got both the 1990 & 2001 editions of the "Two-Fer" CD's(I prefer the 1990 editions which sound closer to what the original vinyl sounded like), and I've got the 2012 Mono/Stereo reissues. Those discs are useful for the previously unreleased stereo versions of "Today", "Summer Days…and Summer Nights", "Party" & "Smiley Smile", and for the CD debuts of the 1963-64 mono albums(though the masterings of those mono albums leave much to be desired, especially clipping off the start of the mono mix of "Stoked"!!)

Generally, my attitude towards upcoming archival projects, boxed sets & surround sound remix projects being mooted, rumored or proposed by Neil Young, Emerson,Lake & Palmer, Yes ,Jethro Tull and the surviving members of Pink Floyd, Small Faces & Led Zeppelin is this: If these discs are ever released, I'll be there. I'll buy 'em. But if they don't ever happen, I'm O.K. with that,too. This is why I'm not clamoring for more Beach Boys archival projects. If they want to release more vault material, then surprise us: create these projects without a 22-month "Wall of Secrecy" build-up. Don't announce them until all of the artist permissions have been obtained.

I'm not sure if there is an urgent need for Beach Boys SACD's or vinyl. I've got the original 1960's vinyl releases(excepting, for unknown reasons "Surfin' U.S.A."). As for SACD's, I'd be more excited if the 1969-73 albums were in surround sound.

Agree with most of your points here, but from my point of view, I'm only interested if they vinyl issues are of the stereo mixes - I have all the mono LPs where applicable, and I'm not too worried about obtaining/paying for something I already have for the sake of EQ and the odd scratch.

To me it's the other way round - I'd love to have mono vinyl versions of the pre-1965 LPs!

If they were double LPs [Mono and Stereo in a gatefold] I'd be happiest though  ;)

would be nice if they used the original quad mixes of cool cool water and its about time, as well as the quad surfs up album mixes obviously

Cool that the vinyl reissues will feature "old school" tip-on jackets (printed wraps glued on to grey chipboard shells), which were the way all Beach Boys albums thru 15 Big Ones (excepting 20/20 and Endless Summer) were originally released in the US.  Wonder if they'll make them even more authentic by having the glue seams on the cover side for the earlier albums (as was done in the US on Surfin Safari thru Stack-O-Tracks) and the glue seams on the back or inside as was done for tip-on jackets in the US starting with Sunflower.

I do wish they weren't using 200 gram vinyl, as I much prefer 120 gram vinyl as found on the original releases.  180 gram and 200 gram vinyl are more susceptible to loud cracking sounds due to non-fill, and they feel totally different than the original releases, but they do allow manufacturers to tout such records as audiophile pressings with a resultant significant increase in price.

And yeah, where are Wild Honey, Friends, and 20/20?  All really great records that deserve to be part of this series.  And to complete the set they oughta include Stack-O-Tracks with the original style booklet for the vinyl release, and a mini-booklet for the (hopefully hybrid) SACD.

Is there a release date for these yet?

So can SCAD be played on a computer? I'm not a real audiophile and this stuff confuses me :P

Nope.

An SACD can only be played on an SACD compatible player.  Sony and Pioneer make consumer grade Blu Ray players that can read 'em (they cost about $150 australian).  Or you could show off and drop  anything from $1K to $ 20K on an audiophile unit.

BUT RE PC listening - if these SACDs are hybrid SACD's, it means they have a CD compatible layer which you will be able to play on your PC; but won't be high res.

Howevs, The main thing with SACD releases is the quality of the mastering; if it's mastered really well, the quality will shine through on the CD layer.

If you are happy with the twofers or the recent remasters, you might want to wait for some reviews to hear if there are any sonic revelations or improvement over those releases before you blow your bread.

These will be hybrid SACDs, in keeping with everything else that Analog Productions does.  So no need worry about compatibility -- they'll play where ever you play CDs.  They'll probably be north of $25 a pop.  So, if you're not an audiophile, you can pass.  The goal here is to finally give us perfect sounding digital versions.  And this time in hi-rez!  Basically, everything from Safari to Holland (minus the few noted exceptions) will now sound gloriously like the Audio Fidelity version of Pet Sounds.  Which to me, is divine - and worth it.  (I don't do vinyl, btw)

So... I'm in for the whole lot.  I've bought all the re-releases over these many years -- and each one has faults.  These will, without any doubt correct that.  These will be the best.  I have no concerns.  These will be the last time I'll ever need to buy another digital version of these albums*.  So I'm happy -- not that I have to pay a lot of money -- but that I will have "peace" with the Beach Boys on CD*.


*The obvious caveat to all this is...
1) Mono/stereo.  Which are we getting?  Both?
2) What about all the other albums (Concert, Christmas, Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20, CATP, and everything after Holland.)

If the 2012 remaster campaign has been left unfinished (as of today) -- are we to believe this series too will not complete the deal?  I find it weird to do these albums but not rest.

PC speakers and amplifiers would not reveal the sonics on a SACD anyway.

To get the benefit of SACD you need hi-end gear all through the chain from SACD player to speakers.

Even if you don't have a SACD player, the Redbook layer sounds almost as good. The CD layer is from the converted SACD layer.

I am pretty much with you BB, but I will not buy (re-buy) all of the 14.

But I think the omission of Wild Honey, Friends and 20/20 is a GLARING one!  GLARING!

Let's remember, Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20 are MASTERWORKS!

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but someone posted this link on the Hoffman board:

http://backonthetracks.com/2014/01/13/the-vinyl-revival-upcoming-treaures-for-2014/comment-page-1/ (http://backonthetracks.com/2014/01/13/the-vinyl-revival-upcoming-treaures-for-2014/comment-page-1/)

Analogue productions set to release 24(!) Beach Boys lps and 14 SACDs mastered by Kevin Gray.

From what I can gather the albums that were repackaged in 2012 may be released as separate mono and stereo lps where applicable i.e. a stereo smiley would be available on vinyl.

Anyone else have any fresh info on this, or able to negate this info (and help me to manage my expectations in the process!)?

I need to get a job this summer...

No kidding.

Just got one… starts in 10 weeks! First pay packet? Blown!

Q: Are we ever gonna get a complete discography re-release that's done right?

A: Nop.

I need to get another job to pay for all this :o

Just get a shitty cd player like I have and you won't be able to tell the difference.

I'm talking vinyl, no the CDs. The SACDs don't bother me so much... the vinyl? mmmmmmm

Though the CDs will probably sounded better than the 2012 CDs... UGH

Steve Hoffman himself over on his board did jokingly intimate Analogue Productions are prone to a bit of lag in their schedules (he said expect within the next ten years).

Hoffman also said to "pray for mono" (ie, original B-Dub mixes).

I've just had a new turntable bought for my birthday to play my ever growing collection.  I have pretty much got all the Capitol greens on vinyl, original vinyl for all the albums, From the Vaults, Simply Vinyl, Yellow Label Capitols, Brown Pet Sounds, 40th Anniversary Pet Sounds Double etc, etc, and yet I know I will want these when they come out!  Why, oh why do they do this to me?!  Can I justify it? :-[

Problem is I have dodgy hearing and wouldn't know the best pressing or CD version!  I need to stop visiting that Hoffman board. ;D

I think there's potential for these to be the best sounding re-releases. Also if they are pressing mono and stereo as separate LPs that's another plus. Stereo Smiley on vinyl? Yes please. Mono Today and Summer Days on clean, new vinyl and not sourced from CD?  :wave

I'm unfamiliar with kevin Gray's work but according to the audio obsessives over at Hoffman, he is the man when it comes to mastering. Like Obi Wan to Hoffman's Vader or something. These could be great sounding if they ever see the light of day. And separate mono and stereo vinyl releases? What's not to love about that?

Admittedly the omission of Friends, Wild Honey etc. is quite a flaw but maybe that will change.

I'm surprised there's not more excitement/blind & rabid speculation going on here.

the omission of those 4 ? albums is a massive blow!

like why bother doing the rest and leave out a couple?....

much like the 2012 mono/stereo remasters..... it makes 'no sense'!

those are magic records in the beach boys artillery, and it sucks they

continue to be overlooked and never given a proper discography treatment..

and like a fool, i'll come along and pick up the fragments and spend $$$ on

something I already have ultimately........

this being a BB fan is tough work...  :-\

arrrrrrrr!!!!

RickB

I'm indulging in very blind rabid excitement… just waiting on a link to pre-order.

The Blu-Ray Pet Sounds still seems to be floating in the ether also.  I expect it'll bite the dust with these on the way. Shame, as the tracklist indicated that it included the bonus tracks that were on the first Japanese CD pressing way-back.

That would be that same Hoffman who told us Capitol were seriously considering canning the whole Smile Sessions project because - sit down, this is a killer - fans were actually calling the Tower and asking when it was going to be released ?

 :lol I'm pretty sure it's the same guy

Yes, He's a funny old bean, but may have an inkling more than some of us mere mortals as to the intricacies of the niche pressing market.

If memory serves me correctly Analogue did at one stage list these reissues for pre-order, but then removed it with no updates (but I could be full of sh*t, as usual).

At the end of the day, I would fore-go all of these items for a royale-with-cheese vinyl or SACD of Sunflower decoded (ie, "that" matrix version) and anything else with the S/D matrix stamp of quality.


See what happens, John, I say hang in there: I still expect to see a PS Blu later this year - UME have just spent a ton buying up just about everything (they're putting the Universe in to Universal) so I expect they'll be milking this format for the non-audiophiles home theatre types by releasing every piece of serious music they can get their hands on.

Hope Holland comes with the Fairytale 7" and sure why not throw on "We got love" too  ;D

Whoa, "All Summer Long", "Surfin' Safari" and "Surfin' USA" in mono on vinyl! :) :) :) :) Looks like I get to spend some money this summer...

Ha ha! I'd forgotten about that. When he realised his error (i.e. when the official announcement was made), did he not then delete the thread and start a new one making it look like it was his scoop? I'm sure there was a 'win The Smile Sessions' competition to boot. Smooth.

Perhaps that was hyperbole, or based on information from other sources, who knows (and who cares at this stage?; the damn thing was released 2 ½ years ago). Wasn’t the whole point of that “Smile” commentary the idea that the label and perhaps the band get unreasonably ruffled and, well, unreasonable, when people start blabbing about stuff before it has been announced or released? You know, because we’ve *never* read on this board that “inside information” is sensitive, right?  ::)

In any event, as far as I’m concerned, Hoffman’s remastering work on the Beach Boys’ material he’s had a chance to work on is unsurpassed. Kevin Gray has worked with Hoffman on projects, and both have done remasters for Audio Fidelity (the revived version of the old DCC label), so Gray’s work has the potential to similarly be astounding. I’d much rather have Hoffman or Gray handling the mastering on Beach Boys projects than most anybody else at this stage. The hand full of DCC Beach Boys titles are clocking in around 20 years old at this stage, and they still sound better than subsequent remasters.

I for one am tired of remasters of the same albums; I’d rather see archival live and studio releases. But Analogue Productions has succeeded in finding one of the few scenarios where I would consider buying these same freaking albums again: Releasing them on SACD, and with someone like Gray remastering.

Heck of a lot of sympathy with this thought.  It's not just that it's material getting reissued, but the same albums getting re-issued, and the same elements of the catalogue getting passed over.

It's fun to have new release, fascinating to compare the audio (if time permits) but fresh material, whether archive or new, would hold sway.  Maybe the way Led Zepp are re-issuing their first three album could be some sort of template to improve upon.

But hey ho, crumbs is crumbs…

STeVE SAiD: "Upon release I will have 10 sealed copies to give away to 10 lucky SH Forums members so stay tuned and SMiLE!"
That was the last any SHF member heard about that.  ::)

why Party? Nix Party and do Wild Honey ,I mean c'mon

Anyone know if this alleged project is still happening??

It better be.

Personally I hope the programme gets scuttled and reborn as something that offers a whole bunch of unreleased material on companion discs: it exists - early stuff could be drawn from Big Beat, First Wave, Lost & Found; we've just seen the evidence of a whole slew of Brother era material still to be issued; there's the so-called "Bedroom Tapes"; various unreleased live recordings; already issued material that's effectively out-of-print; unadulterated Sail Plane Song and YLTLF…

Put out the albums in the highest fidelity as per-plan, but not just as yet-another-reissue-of-the-material-the-fans-have-many-times-over.

party shouldnt be included cmon

8 months after the original announcement, and Analogue Sounds can't bring themselves to release even ONE Beach Boys L.P. or SACD. Analogue Sounds has squandered whatever consumer enthusiasm once existed amongst the fans.
FORGET IT.

I hear no-one has officially announced that there will be a Sunday tomorrow, so I guess it's not happening. Not the way I envisioned the world ending.

It's Sunday where I am, so you should be ok.

No word on Monday at this juncture, however, so don't hold your breath.

It makes sense to me for Surfer Girl to be the first album to start at as far as reissues go. Surfin USA was/is phenomenal but even tho it was a pure surf-instro album it wasnt where they came into full form like Surfer Girl; and I seen many undermine Little Deuce Coupe cuz it was only 2/3 of new material but ya gotta take into account that it came out RIGHT AFTER Surfer Girl...and LDC is a verg solid album, same goes for Shut Down vol2, so what if it had a couple filler tracks, EVERYONE was doin it like that...All Summer Long is fantastic ALL the way thru, same goes for Today and Summer Days, one or two filler tracks doesng weaken the album, the Beatles and Stones had plenty filler and both of em were still doin a shitload of covers when the BBs were doin almost all origs. With that bein said Pet Sounds is a given as is Smiley...then jumping ahead to Sunflower cuz its been said many times and is true- Sunflower was their most solid group effort in years and no album that followed even came close to equalling it.

SOMEBODY should rework this time thing so everyone has Sunday at the same time!  ( and  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXFQZi_swrw )

My own enthusiasm for this expired when I considered the expense of buying yet another incomplete batch of reissues done without any imagination - no bonus tracks, no outtakes, no additional information… I'm maybe jumping the gun in saying that but other than the sound quality improvement and the vinyl/SACD format choice, they'd be just another shelf filler.

I'd rather have a new album from the band, or Blu-Ray audio deluxe reissues of the entire back cAtalogue.  Or another rarities set.

I'm glad there's currently no temptation to empty the wallet in this direction.

This is one instance where I'd like to see Capitol, Brother and the various surviving Beach Boys VETO a proposed project.(Where's the cantankerous, lawsuit-loving Mike Love when you need him?). Instead, give us something that we haven't heard before, something we haven't bought 5 times before. Besides, vinyl revival fad folks will not be pleased if Analogue Productions issues the 21st century stereo remixes of "Today","Summer Days...and Summer Nights", "Smiley Smile" & "Party" on vinyl. After all, these mixes were created on digital equipment, and there is no analogue master tape. For those recent mixes, the "masters" are files on a hard drive. Let's not forget the complaints from the vinyl revival fadists(is there such a word?) when it was revealed that the stereo Beatles vinyl reissues were mastered from digital files.

 
Well, if the world IS coming to an end soon, then that's a good reason to speed up the CD,DVD & Blu-Ray release schedule. ;D

ANY reason to speed it up works for me.

It is taking unusually long for these to come out.   >:(  

But I'm still excited about what they'll offer.  I simply want the best sound, hi-res versions of the Beach Boys albums -- period.  So, no complaints -- it's a dream come true for this fan.

The only complaint would be that it's (at this point) an incomplete set.  I listen to the 70s albums more than the 60s ones, for whatever reason.  And there's no certainty (or apparent plan) that this will end up as a complete collection.  It would end up being a major, major tease in that respect.


EDIT:  And I'm not aware of Analogue Productions ever re-producing the complete catalog of an artist whose catalog is this large.

PONO is coming!

Well, for me, the big plus to the Analogue Productions series was having Kevin Gray master the albums.  For instance, I wouldn't need hi-rez downloads of the current masters.

It has been reported (on the Steve Hoffman forums) that all mention of The Beach Boys L.P./SACD series has disappeared from the website of Analogue Productions. That's it. For whatever reasons(and the public may never know) these products are not to be. End of Story.

Maybe Capitol will someday release some more Beach Boys archival product....or maybe they won't. But our chances of getting more Beach Boys product from Capitol/Universal are, in my opinion, better than the chances of getting anything from Analogue Productions.

It may ultimately be that we won't get anything this year from Capitol. A Brian Wilson solo album may happen, but it's meant for the kids; for them to discover Brian's music by hearing Brian duet with dubious 21st century "talents".  Whether Brian's long-term fans like this new album is, from a marketing standpoint, irrelevant.

If there was even a believable rumor or hint from Capitol that more Beach Boys archival product was in the pipeline, at least we'd have something to passionately debate or argue about, but instead boredom is settling in . Yawn.......

I guess this is a new variant of The Wall of Secrecy. Don't promise or announce anything. I guess nobody will feel cheated or mistreated. Is this progress? I don't know.

On 7/13/2014 6:33 AM, Alan Smith wrote (to Analogue Productions contact email):

>The Beach Boys vinyl and SACD reissues
> Hey there - are you guys still planning on bringing out selected reissues of The Beach Boys back catalogue, remastered by Kevin Gray, on 180 vinyl and SACD, in the near future?
>
> Cheers - Al

On 15/07/2014 6:34 AM, Orders wrote:

>>>Hello,

>>>Unfortunately we do not have any further information on these productions at this time.

>>>Thanks for the email!

I liked the exclamation mark, always brings a smile to one's face in the face of quality archival release adversity.

Anyway, similar to earlier comments, I need a few years lead time to accrue the ready cash to shell for polished versions of same old.

A member on SH board noticed that Friends, 20/20, Love You and In Concert were all newly listed in Acoustic Sounds with a release date of August 16th.  Is this wave part of this vinyl/SACD re-releases and most importanty: is this a sign that we'll be getting the reissues on CD as well?

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/98920/The_Beach_Boys-Love_You-Vinyl_Record
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/98921/The_Beach_Boys-Live_In_London-Vinyl_Record
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/98922/The_Beach_Boys-Friends-Vinyl_Record
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/98930/The_Beach_Boys-2020-Vinyl_Record

In Concert is mis-marked. It is the 1964 Beach Boys Concert.

Suspect both are in the pipeline as the 64 sleeve is shown for two separate listings with different ACAP numbers and widely differing prices.


… and one's a 2LP set!

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/98918/The_Beach_Boys-The_Beach_Boys_In_Concert-Vinyl_Record

Full list (so far) appears to be

Friends
20/20
Love You
Concert
In Concert
Live in London

Which seem to be some of the odds and sodds that weren't included in the recent remasters.

Curious to know the deal there - cheaper to licence?

Anyway, Friends and Love You! Yeeehah!

Maybe it is In Concert, but when I checked the track list it showed the 13 songs on Beach Boys Concert. The Beach Boys Concert link also shows the same track list. I did check this this morning so it may have been fixed. I can't seem to get on the site right now to verify.

Now pushed back to September 16, 2014... :brow

http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&categoryid=Any&searchField=Any&searchtext=beach+boys&search.x=0&search.y=0 (http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&categoryid=Any&searchField=Any&searchtext=beach+boys&search.x=0&search.y=0)

These are all vinyl releases. So, there will be no SACD's. I've got a near complete set of 1960's Capitol vinyl pressings(excepting "Surfin' U.S.A. & "Best of" compilations), and I've got an early 1970's EMI Bovema(Netherlands) "Live in London", so I'd rather spend my (rapidly shrinking) disposable income on music that I haven't already got.

And, by the way, these five vinyl releases now being listed for preorder are NOT the (cancelled?) Analogue Productions releases. These are Capitol releases, not audiophile releases.

Appreciate that clarification.

And share your sentiment… I have these on original vinyl (assuming there's nothing specifically "new" about these…) and wouldd rather blow my money this year on Brian's new LP, or tracking down an affordable version of POB 3LP.

I don't have a worthy copy of Friends, a personal fave, so will have to shell for that baby.

As these are seemingly Capitol jobbies, I imagine they'll be listed/listing on other sites (the ubiquitous Amazon).

Phil, curious re your source info about the Capitol origin (not saying I don't believe the news) - any further info?

Just wondering if the so-called In Concert is actually DEFINITELY Beach Boys Concert but 2 discs because maybe it'll be mono/stereo?

The original In Concert LP release was on two discs.

I wonder if these will be like the "From the Vaults" pressings, i.e., faithful to the original packaging.

Are you really sure that you WANT Brian to release his new album, given the reports of duets with trendy 2014 pop stars? Maybe it should stay in the vaults.

Huh?

So you've no interest in new Brian Wilson songs featuring vocals from Brian Wilson, Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin? For a big Beach Boys fan like myself (and presumably you), that alone would make me give the album a shot.

Don't feed the trolls.

(http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y392/DoctorLime/Gifs/Disbelief%20Shock%20and%20WTF/ieeRSPq_zpsd37a1e6c.gif)

Not Phil, but the fact that Acoustic Sounds has the product numbers starting with an "ACAP" prefix might be a decent clue. The Analogue Productions releases on their site have their own unique imprint. :)

Yeah, it's indeed a good clue -  but I'm fishing if a press release or some other additional info was kicking around Phil or anyone else's depts; as I haven't seen these releases listed elsewhere (so far), specifics are light on the ground.

Anyways, in order to avoid assumption, I enquired with Acoustic Sounds and they confirmed these are Capitol but could not supply any further detail re the pressing etc.  The rep also noted the Acoustic Sounds Analogue Productions reissues of the Beach Boys have not been formally placed on the website at this time.

Well they did just put out an exhaustive box set last year.  You know, the one you kept swearing would be cancelled?  I'm sure Capitol probably thinks that will cover their Beach Boys needs for the next few years.  Then it will be back to the compilation discs with "new stereo mixes" or whatever gimmick they use to sucker us into buying the same oldies again. 

 Zooey, Lana, and Frank are very talented artists and I'm just happy Brian is releasing a new album at all. Many fans would be bummed out if Brian or Capitol canned the album.

FYI,

The six Capitol releases are now pre-listed as imports at Amazon UK, with a release date of Sept 16; also at Amazon.com  - prices $22.98 for the 1LP, or $35.98 for the 2LP In Concert:

Love You [VINYL] by Beach Boys (2014) - Import
Currently unavailable

20/20 [VINYL] by Beach Boys (2014) - Import
Currently unavailable

Live in London [VINYL] by Beach Boys (2014) - Import
Currently unavailable

Friends [VINYL] by Beach Boys (2014) - Import
Currently unavailable

Beach Boys in Concert [VINYL] by Beach Boys (2014) - Import
Currently unavailable

Beach Boys Concert [VINYL] by Beach Boys (2014) - Import
Currently unavailable

The six new Capitol BB vinyl albums are also up on the Music Direct site  http://www.musicdirect.com/search.aspx?searchterm=beach%20boys

But, if such an album were to be released in September, there would have been an announcement already. I would have been more excited about a new Brian Wilson album if it had Brian(or other actual Beach Boys such as Al Jardine) doing the lead vocals on all songs. If the new album is being marketed to younger listeners, then I hope that it  is commercially successful with its intended audience.

Hope "Holland" is still gonna happen.

Zzzzzzz. I'm as big of an "old school" and vinyl booster as you can find, but the only scenario where I feel even remotely enthusiastic about by more copies of the same BB albums with no bonus tracks is SACD/CD remasters from someone like Kevin Gray or Steve Hoffman. Even in that scenario, my enthusiasm wanes.

Brian's the only dude seemingly willing and able to put out new albums. So we're left still with the prospect of more unreleased material. Just get that "Beach Boys Central" up and running! Even just live stuff would be wonderful.

And the www.beachboyscentral.com domain name has once again expired.

OK, a small hint that this stuff may be coming soon(ish).

From the last paragraph of an article by the esteemed Michael Fremer, on analog planet - http://www.analogplanet.com/content/eric-leefe-deserves-chair (http://www.analogplanet.com/content/eric-leefe-deserves-chair) :

I played him The Beach Boys' "In My Room" from the upcoming Analogue Productions reissue of Surfer Girl and you can be sure Eric related to Brian's lyrics. He lives in that room. The least he could have there is a decent stereo, but for sure he'll get more chances to listen here.

Perhaps Analogue Productions are keeping their acoustic heads down until the upcoming Beatles mono vinyl melee is completed.

These are out today!  Has anybody bought any or ordered them yet?  The price on Amazon UK seems a bit steep (£30).  But I would love to have these.

So many of the best titles are being mastered by Kevin Gray for All Analogue productions at some point apparently. Great news.

But this handful for some reason are not being included in the above and are being released by Capitol - Potentially digitally sourced (my assumption, may be wrong)

And Wild Honey is not showing up on any pre-release schedules.

Anybody else finding this frustrating? Why divvy the catalogue up in this way? I'm very grateful that the Analogue Productions thing is potentially still in the pipeline but it just seems so untidy, and arbitrary that classics such as Friends are released as part of a different programme with potentially inferior masterings and Wild Honey is nowhere to be seen. Of course I haven't listened to any of these yet so any talk of sound quality is obviously conjecture but you'd imagine the sq will inevitably differ between the sets of releases.

I can't help but compare this hodge-podge approach to the Beatles Mono vinyl boxed set. Rave reviews about the sound quality and packaging. All the mono albums together and seemingly selling like hotcakes. I'm not suggesting the Beach Boys put out a vinyl box but just that they release all the best (up to Holland at least) albums on vinyl in one place, in one go. Surely they deserve that much?

Coming October 27
The Beach Boys' Christmas Album LP (Mono)
http://www.elusivedisc.com/The-Beach-Boys-The-Beach-Boys-Christmas-Album-LP-Mono/productinfo/CAPLP70118/

Amazon marketplace sellers at pitching some at around half the Amazon UK prices…

Glorious mono! I hope it's Brian's vintage mixes and not a fold-down.

I've bought a couple items from Amazon US for $22.48 Australian dollars which is 12pound'n 50p of your Quid money

20/20 was $19.99; just over a tenner

And f-all for shipping; probably the equiv of 4 poun'd

Cheers guys!  I've just ordered a couple for now. ;D

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Friends-VINYL-Beach-Boys/dp/B00MHS5BKW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_m_h__5?ie=UTF8&refRID=1SFVZC6YAPZ43FZP36PA (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Friends-VINYL-Beach-Boys/dp/B00MHS5BKW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_m_h__5?ie=UTF8&refRID=1SFVZC6YAPZ43FZP36PA)

So presumably this is the new vinyl release of Friends. Anybody have this yet and able to comment on the sound quality?

I just logged in hoping to fine some comments on the sound quality of the LP reissues, but so far there are no posts, so I'll just add that I received a phone call from a friend a few minutes ago who bought the Friends LP and said he was highly impressed with the sound quality, as well as the clarity and sharpness of the front and back covers.  Unlike the 1981 (green label) and 1994 (rainbow label) Capitol LP reissues, this 2014 reissue restores the original black border on the front of the album cover.

Thanks a ton for posting this! I've been eagerly awaiting a review on the quality of the Friends LP, looks like it won't disappoint!

Awesome!  When I think of a Beach Boys vinyl, Friends, Sunflower, and 20/20 come to mind.  I already have Surf's Up, Love You, Pet Sounds, and Holland... great listens. 

Weirdly enough, I prefer listening to most Beach Boys music with headphones before I sleep.  Of course, during nights I can't sleep I listen to the synth-y and strange BB music. 

I would still love to have some more of the Boys' work on vinyl.

Yes, it is very frustrating.  Especially as we are living in an age of reissues and deluxe boxsets of completeness.

Yet "they" just can't seem to do anything sincere and correct.  The 2012 remasters were far from perfect or ideal -- but they appeared to be (sort of) in step with reality -- Mono/Stereo.  As you said, the Beatles did a great job with their reissues -- what a clear and obvious precedent!

I'm not sure what drugs are being consumed in the Beach Boy tower... but it's time to stop and reflect.  Regroup and cut the poop.

My copies of Friends and Love You came in the mail yesterday, and I'm not much of an audiophile but they both sound a whole lot better than my old CD/mp3 copies. Friends in particular is a revelation, the difference in sound quality is huge. It may take some getting used to, since the lo-fi audio is part of the album's charm for me, but I love it. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Are there any clues/notes on the sleeves etc as to who did the mastering/prep for these releases?

I'm curious if Love You has the same sort of rough cardboard texture to the jacket as the original release.

It does. I just found it in a store yesterday and it definitely does. I was hoping they'd have Friends but they didn't. I felt Friends would benefit most from new remastering and Love You less so.

Are these remastered though? Phrase used on Amazon uk is "re-pressed".

"Are these remastered?" asked John Manning, in 2014.

Well, my copies of Friends arrived - I've cracked one open and played it even, to see if I could come up with answer - and the answer is "Beats me!". 

There's nothing on the packaging that indicates who mastered/remastered etc - if a helpful insider around here knows the answers, do tell.

In the meantime, here's what I can share.

The packaging:

No Capitol Vaults stickers or similar on my copies.

Pretty straight forward stuff, with well presented and colour balanced front and rear cover art - a couple of noticeable changes on the back cover (depending on which pressing you may own) is the ref to Sea of Tunes publishing has been ditched and there's now a UME info block nestled in to the right of the original production notes (and a massive bar code) (click on the thumbnails for a bigger pic):

(http://s27.postimg.org/v0tghcu9r/Friends_UMEBackcover.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/v0tghcu9r/)


The label is a Capitol Rainbow repro, updated to indicate 2014 Capitol and UME ownership. 
                                                                                                               (http://s27.postimg.org/3oy7g0pj3/Friends_UMElabel.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/3oy7g0pj3/)

Stamped in the dead wax to the right of the label is - "Mastered by Capitol" -
                                                                                                               (http://s27.postimg.org/j7vnd4xtr/Friends_UMEMastered.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

Here's the matrix number: B0021127-01-A  G-1 squiggle that might start with an R.  There is also a squiggle resembling an eye (no lashes tho')

(http://s27.postimg.org/w0jrd29fj/Friends_UMEmatrix.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/w0jrd29fj/)

The playback (IMO here - I don't have a vintage US pressing to compare):

In terms of sound quality, these stuck me as being a faithful repro of vinyl releases from this era - fat creamy bass, crisp percussion on the top end, clearly defined instrumentation.  If these have been pulled from DIG sources, then someone's made a pretty good fist of it; I got a good sense of the elusive warm analogue sound that's overly hard to easily define but definitely easy to get hard over.

The instrumental imaging delivers and gives us a good idea of what was going on, and who was sitting where and there is good separation with no cluttering of the instrumental stack.  Interestingly, I thought the vocals come across a little lower down and muddier than the '01 CD presentation.

No sonic revelations here: as expected - if you have mint or VG originals that you happily play, you may want to pass. 

However, if you're looking for good sounding vinyl or clean playing copies in order to, err, archive your precious originals these are pretty nifty - glad I picked 'em up; go get some!

Many thanks Alan, very much appreciated.

Vinyl or SACD?

My copies of all 6 arrive today.

It's like Christmas.

I caved and went to buy "Friends" and "Love You", damn it aren't both out of stock

Only vinyl on these Capitol/UMe releases.

Does the Love You release authentically replicate the shitty quality cardboard used for the original cover?

Does the 20/20 sleeve come ungummed when you've slid the LP out a few times?

Maybe I should get the Friends album then.

Got Friends today. Sounds pretty nice, certainly better than the two-fer CD. I heard the percussion on "Busy Doin' Nothin'" with more clarity and subtlety than I've heard it before.

But if you're looking for a revelatory upgrade in sound, this ain't it. This is no audiophile release by any means.

If I may ask, what exactly were you expecting to hear that would make this audiophile? I take it that the vinyl must be loud and not flat?

I already have good green-label "Mastered by Capitol" pressings of Friends and 20/20 which I don't imagine these improve upon, and I'm not much interested in live albums. So the only question for me is, is there any point in buying Love You? Will I get anything out of it I don't get from my original pressing?

Dr. Beach Boy, to answer your question, what would've made this an audiophile release to me would have been if I'd heard more "information" than I'd heard before on previous releases: increased separation of instruments or sense of placement on the stereo soundstage. But with the rare exception (the better clarity of the percussion on "Busy Doin' Nothin' as I mentioned above) this sounds pretty much the same as any other release I've heard. Though keep in mind, I've never heard Friends on vinyl before. But when it's just a hair better than the 1990 CD, it can't be too audiophile.

I wasn't quite clear on what you were asking with your second question, but no, it isn't loud, which is good. Nice and quiet and smooth sounding. It's certainly a nice-sounding record, just not significantly different than anything you've heard, and, I suspect, not as nice sounding as a near-mint original.

I believe it does!  The front cover texture is rather nice.

However, the colour seps on the back cover are too dark - you can't make out a lot of the detail in the comp'd-in background.  The darker sep makes the criss-cross photo dot matrix a lot more obvious - not something I'd paid much attention to on the original.

The inner sleeve is nicely reproduced and retains the blacked out packet of ciggies in the we love ya Brian photo.

Thanks Alan. Now how does it sound? Anything about it that makes it worth buying, given I already own a clean original pressing?

Saw copies of Friends and 20/20  LPs in a store yesterday.
 20/20 had a mice misprint on the back cover, " Originally released in 1964"

That would immediately double it's value … to a collector...

OOOOOHHHHHHHHH, I should have bought it then!!  ( but do  all copies have the misprint?  )

My copy has the misprint too!

That news just halved the value of the other copy.

Mine too - that value is plummeting before our very eyes!

Finally had time to give this one a spin.

My opinion is it's a good job, BUT, the original pressing is better in both sound and visual departments.

Sound: This re-pressing sounds pleasing, but is brighter and lacking the lower low end of the original; thus while the synths still fart, they don't FAAARRRRTTTTTtttt-squelch like the original vinyl - the lower the end, the better the fart. This brightness indicates the mastering source is highly-likely digital (almost duh, but no-one's officially said yet that I've read) and sounds relatively similar to the '01 toof.

Visual: The artwork on this pressing is not as well presented as the vintage which has sharper b&w images on the inner sleeve and brighter colour seps on the front and back covers - the new presentations are softer and darker respectively.  Just guessing, maybe some of the graphic designer types know what to look for, but I wonder if the original artwork is long gone, and Capitol had to take images from a pressed copy - hence the softer washed out look?

So, kids, I would recommend you seek out a clean vintage pressing over this one.  But If you can't be fcuked finding an oldie, then this one should see you through; it's still a good pressing, and the vinyl is as thick and stiff as a old plate - unlike the vintage which could double as a wobble-board if required.  I'm not unhappy or distressed with the new, but think the surf city mother lode is the more satisfying.

Some pictures below for those interested (click on the thumbs for the bigger pics).  

BTW, I snuck over to The Hoff (board) and read these editions have been remastered in house at Capitol by an industry veteran called Ron McMaster ( :), yes I bet he gets pointed out to him a lot).  I sent an email asking about the source files; surely they were happy to hear from me as they are yet to write back - cheers - A

(These shots compare the new (on the left) to the vintage (on the right), hopefully showing the vintage artwork (on the right) is brighter/sharper than the new (on the left).

(http://s18.postimg.org/i84w45qlx/LY_FC.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/i84w45qlx/)      (http://s18.postimg.org/4shvepi45/LY_BC.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4shvepi45/)         (http://s18.postimg.org/cu63wm0vp/LY_IS_1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/cu63wm0vp/)      (http://s18.postimg.org/sxikwf2et/LY_IS_2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/sxikwf2et/)      (http://s18.postimg.org/hhc5ydo8l/LY_Label.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hhc5ydo8l/)

Many thanks Alan. These releases aren't too shabby, it seems, but have not had the same treatment lavished upon them as The Beatles mono LPs which is, while a tad disappointing, not in the least surprising.

Out of interest, did anyone bother wih any of the recent years' Surfin' Safari vinyl pressings? Must be at least half a dozen licking around, with at least one more pending…

Honkin' Down the Highway is so different from any other version I've heard.  I'm halfway convinced that someone screwed up, like with the more cowbell version of Bluebirds Over the Mountain.

Any more about this? Is this an alternate mix?

I think it's the same mix, but it does sound a bit rough presentation wise - maybe an indication of tape wear, and maybe an indication these pressings are from analogue sources rather than wrongly assumed by me digital sources.

The wrong mix thing was a half-joke.  It's largely the same, but is absolutely missing the percussion punch, especially noticeable on the opening triplets or during Al's pre-chorus.  I was already running a bass-heavy EQ to fix the synth noise (I love the farts), but it didn't help here. 

Good Time has a similar enough sonic profile (lots of separation between the parts, very punchy drums) and it sounds just fine.

I still really like these reissues. I listen to records pretty loud and can hear more of the subtle parts than on original pressings, but this song kind of went the other way and just became a wall of mud (which just made me realize that the difference is similar to the Smiley Smile vs. Smile versions of H&V.)

When I was "A/B"-ing the pressings using Honkin', which I hate doin' 'cos the mind can play tricks, I noticed the original sort of surges in after the drum intro - doesn't seem to do that as noticeably on this one; wonder if something was manually tweaked back in the day?

Also, the new mastering (on this track)  tends to favour the vox , which is a similar approach to the Hoff remasters of other stuff - imo, btw.

But, yeah!, agree these are great - but frustratingly have not yet had time to give 20/20  a full spin yet - I'm going to compare it with the Starline pressing I have.

Thanks again Alan… keep it coming!

For the most part, 20/20 sounds phenomenal.  The heavy wax really does Desper's work justice - with no neighboring groove bleed, you can really hear how much effort was put into keeping things clean.  Cotton Fields is a great one to A/B.

 :) Pleasure! Targetting saturday, but if anyone else has opinions (less dubious than my dodgey ones), get 'em in!

Edit - like micromoog above

20/20 - star line pressing compared and contrasted to 2014 reissue

(http://s18.postimg.org/mnpudl2ol/SL_label2_p.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/mnpudl2ol/)  (http://s18.postimg.org/62mtbo0yd/Cap_label_p.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/62mtbo0yd/)

Well - great fun digging the star line out to size it up against the newbie, not having spun it for a while - tellingly, when I got to the end of "Our Prayer", my brain had, in anticipation, cued up Gee, a result of the ongoing Smile Sessions lathering of the last 2 or so years, and indicative of where my BB attentions have been.

The gold star goes to the re-issue - hands down on all but 1 track as noted below.

Visual
Faithful reproductions of the original, with obvious updates to reflect UME ownership/copyright etc etc.

Here is the year of issue gaff noted earlier in this thread: 
(http://s18.postimg.org/6mx90m4t1/gaff_2_p.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6mx90m4t1/)


A quick compare of inner sleeves - the left is the star line pressing, the right the 2014.

(http://s18.postimg.org/zdu2qoamt/SL_Inner2_p.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/zdu2qoamt/)  (http://s18.postimg.org/aahlkf2dx/Cap_inner_p.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/aahlkf2dx/)


The innner sleeve of the 2014 also has the lower half of the eye chart printed in full down the inner side of where the lp snuggles down at night, as a continuation of the top half with Brian.  Kinda cool!
(http://s18.postimg.org/mg6suth3p/Cap_Inner2_p.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/mg6suth3p/)


Here's a shot of how thick the 2014 vinyl is - almost like 2 albums glued together; I have girlie hands, and with that knowledge you may get a sense of the quality of the vinyl used.

(http://s18.postimg.org/ai0n36nyt/Cap_thick2_p.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ai0n36nyt/)

Audio A/B to star line
What can I say about the 2014 but great stuff with nearly all tracks presented cleanly and doing justice to the songs included.  The stereo presentation has been widened a little, I think - however you do that.  Creamy fat bass tones, clear mids and highs with good sustain on the cymbals (All I Wanna Do showcases these elements beautifully, with the fuzzy blending through the mix like hot fudge on a sundae).

Be With Me sounds massive, and there's a lot more clarity on Cotton Fields, with the track elements a bit more up; a tantilizing hint at what might have been with a more energetic approach to the production.

The special effects in I Went to Sleep (the shimmer of the "spinkler" instrument, the snoring in the break) get the focus they deserve, much like the punchy harpischord attacks on the TTGA verses.

As we know, most of the glory of the album tracks are outshone in spades, by those 2 show stealers from Smile which sound as heavenly as expected.

The only track that's marginally better on the Starline edition is I Can Hear Music, which on said edition has a slightly wider stereo mix (not that this item is that far from being mono bar some of the vocal doubles).  On the new edition it sounds a bit narrower and tends toward the mid tones - perhaps to do with the quality of the tape available, or maybe the single master.

All in all, a pretty good item, and I'll be happily playing this over my various other versions any day.  And for $20-25 bucks a bit of a bargain - I contacted the guy who did the remastering and his response indicated he sourced the original analogue tapes and mastered using an all analogue chain (no digital sh*t) - that's fcukin' cool. 

I'm baffled that UME didn't have that info plastered all over the covers and sell truckloads of these to the broader analogue vinyl purist types - but, I suppose it's money for jam flogging the Beatles mono vinyl to all and sundry (the Beatles mono vinyl are pretty frickin' good having said that); a little sad that again our boys have once again been overshadowed by the Fab Four.

Anyway - buy this; be happy - A

Who did the remastering?  Am I correct in assuming he did the remastering for all of the recent BB LP releases and used original analog tapes rather than recent CD digital masters for all of them?  When you use the word "indicated" in "his response indicated he sourced the original analogue tapes and mastered using an all analogue chain," I get the impression you are fairly certain he used the original analog tapes but are not positive.  Is that a fair assumption?  Can you tell us exactly what he said in that regard?



 

As noted here (towards the end) - http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,16766.msg478186.html#msg478186 - the mastering was by one Ron McMaster (I nicked that from Hoff Board) and I sent an email enquiring the audio source.

The specific response is in a private email, so I won't word for word it here - but trust me, it's a solid yes to all of your other questions. 

And I'm mentioning this to let y'all know these reissues have been approached with care and attention, are not cheap to market CD clones, and worth the money if you're chasing clean, faithful reproductions.

Thanks, Alan!  I purchased all the new LPs, and have listened to each once.  They sound great, but I haven't yet had an opportunity to compare them to the original LPs, later LP reissues, or various CD reissues.

Same here… last one just arrived today, all the way from Oz – and they only gone and sent the wrong on -  BBs Concert instead of In Concert.  Long walk back to the shop…

Yeah, it's a big job given the myriad versions.  Personally I find A/Bing a path to madness but I must say I'm a tad less impressed with/inclined to play the twofer CDs after listening to these - hopefully these pressings will stay in print for a while.

From what I understand (Hoff board again) the Kevin Gray jobbies (the OT) are looking a long way off.

But have a good time playing 'em and let us know if you find anything unexpected!

Do any UK buyers know if they had to pay import charges for the In Concert Lp.  I didn't have to with the others but just wondered about this because In Concert is obviously higher valued and may be above the tax threshold.

I haven't been able to bring myself to open these and play them yet!  They look so good sealed.  If I had more spare cash I'd have picked up two of each!

Great review Alan. ;D

Cheers, Mike - I shelled for 2 copies of Friends, 'cos it's me fave, but I was a bit wary about how this lot'd turn out (and if the Acoustic Sounds stuff would hit the streets at the same time) so played it cool with 1 copy per the others.  But given the results, I might ask Santa to bring me a few more (I've been a good boy this year).

Alan, thanks to your advice a while back I managed to get a record player earlier this year for my birthday!  I went for the Project Debut Carbon which I'm pleased with. It was between that and the Rega.

I might also see if Santa can bring me a couple more copies of these! ;D. Can never have enough of them!

Cheers again.

To me their only albums that should remain in regular circulation would be: surfer girl, shut down vol2, all summer long, today, summer days, pet sounds, smiley, wild honey, sunflower, holland and love you....  lil deuce coupe, friends, 20/20, surfs up, and anything post love you being secondary... those dozen albums are integral like the beatles meet, rubber soul, revolver,, the stones aftermath and the ramones rocket to russia, end of the century and pleasant dreams...the BB being THE only rock band with two dozen albums where at least half are essential for any and every collection....on a side note Id love to get my hands on a vinyl LP of summer in paradise..ha

I decided to just email Acoustic Sounds yesterday and they replied today:

"Yes, they will be coming out be we don't have a tentative date at this time".

Still a glimmer of hope...  at this point these are kind of a holy grail given the involvement of Kevin Grey and the care given to other Analogue Productions releases.

 :rock

So it's time to buy something capable of playing SACDs?$?$?£?£?

Pioneer Blu ray players around $150 AU (£80 & 6?)
Sony Blu ray for similar (Sony own the format)

A Playstation (Sony again)

Oppo have a variety of under a grand universal media players.

After that you may be pushing above a ton and into the stratosphere

Don't forget, these are hybrids, so will have a CD compatible layer that you can listen to until you get your SACD sh*t together.

I have the Pioneer and run it into a Cambridge Audio DAC to compensate for the lower qual DACs (Digital to Analogue Converter) in the base unit. Trips my alarm.

However, The sonic gold may be in the mastering by Kevin Gray and should shine through in either CD or SACD. Hopefully.

I'll go the vinyl over the SACD, but either way time to get that belated swear jar happening.

Pure speculation, but there might be a chance the tracks are released as High Def downloads - I'm just fuckin' guessing (hey, 2 bucks in jar!)

Great news tho

Alan did you get the new mono vinyl "Christmas Album"? I have it but like the others I purchased I can't quite bring myself to open them yet! :-D

Thanks Alan!

I have a Blu-ray player - Panasonic - but limited to playback through the TV at the mo'.

Had forgotten the hybrid element tho'…

Hey Mike - no I haven't yet; I'm trying to be a good little lad and think of buying for others leading into xmas; and my ESQ sub is due after next edition.

Funny you ask as, I had it in my hot little lad hands today ($38 AU) but opted for a 1983 pressing of Who's Next instead.

And a MoFi of Trompe Le Monde by Pixies.

And then, later, the RSD vinyl edition of Muswell Hillbillies by The Kinks.

Doh!

There's an RSD of Muswell Hillbillies!?!

Good picks Alan.  I love the Kinks too. Managed to see them live in 1993 or 1994 in Glasgow.  Great gig! ;D

Yeah, Freddy! - 180g vinyl with a bonus LP "demos, alternates, 1972 BBC Peel Sessions and more".

Here's the bonus line-up:
Side 3 - Lavendar Lane, Mountain Woman, Have A Cuppa Tea (alternate version), Uncle Son (alt vers), Kentucky Moon, Nobody's Fool (demo)

Side 4 - Acute Schizophrenia Paranoia Blues (BBC Peel Sesh), Holiday (Peel Sesh), Skin and Bone (Peel Sesh), 20th Century Man (Peel), Queenie (backing track), Muswell Hillbillies Radio Spot

Record Shop guy told me the Kinks back catalogue is being rereleased on vinyl in the next few months - haven't had a further chat but assuming the RCA catalogue.

Anyway, not a bad pick-up, as good nick 2nd hand copies of Kinks LPs are not easy to come by (bar the boringly ubiquitous ebay of course).

The RSD Muswell Hillbillies is just a vinyl version of the deluxe 2 CD they put out a few months ago.

John - I might be the bringer of bad news for you.  Not sure if your Panasonic can do SACDs (on the off-chance you are permitted to unshackle it from the tv); I'm pretty sure Panasonic opted to not pay Sony a truck load in licencing to do service to a Sony propriety format.

Look for this logo on your current, or any future considerations, amongst the array of format logos (ie, HDMI, Dolby, DVD, Tetley's, etc) usually on the top front left of your player - (http://www.authenticsolutions.com.au/attachments/Image/simbolo_SACD.jpg) - if you see it, happy future days.

If not, well, you have small children, and they have a tendency to accidentally break stuff, nudge nudge...

The Oppo players I mentioned also do HDCD.

Also, I may well be full of sh*t re the hybrid format; I just went back to check my "facts" to date, and I don't have anything concrete to indicate these will be hybrids.  We'll just have to wait and see.

Sorry if this is a duplicate post. From the new Acoustic Sounds catalog.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HtUvU0ZSps0/VH5RmJCJ2LI/AAAAAAAAA5U/anfknonb-9A/w764-h951-no/bb1.jpg)

Capitol has the rights to SELL the Beach Boys catalog to other labels?  How does that work?  I see that they can reissue songs to their heart's content, but I don't get how they can wholesale them out.

Capitol owns the rights to everything through 20/20. This deal must have had BRI input and agreement as well, due to Sunflower, Surf's Up and Holland being a part of this reissue.

We are all in for a treat with these.

Mastered by Kevin Gray.  Original Monos

 :woot

Any release date tho'?

Good man! Thanks!

Not yet.

The other key questions are -
Will the vinyl editions be double albums (mono + stereo sides) or single editions (mono edition, stereo edition)?

Which Beach Boys' band members turned AS onto the mono editions? Mike and Brian types or guys like Scott T and Jeff?
Anyone who visits here who'd be willing to fill us in?

I think the mono development is likely a response to The Beatles mono vinyl sensation, I'm not gonna sweat it tho'

Hmm, wonder if the list of albums they were planning to release has changed.  Of the 14 originally listed, there are no original mono mixes for Sunflower, Surf's Up, and Holland, and a few albums that were originally available in mono were not on that original list.

From what I can gather, the list hasn't changed - it's just Acoustic has decided to also release mono versions: obviously where available as SF, SUP and Holland

Here's a link to the line up from the current catalogue:

(http://s25.postimg.org/ff6uqpgej/bb2.jpg)

When you compare it to the link way back on page 1, pretty much the same.  Still no sign of Wild Honey.

It's getting interesting and I'm going to hang back until some specific info starts to come through - perhaps even some reviews from audiophile types (eg, Michael Fremmer at Analog Planet - who has a copy of the Surfer Girl SACD).  It transpires now, the original intent was only stereo mixes would be released - and for the 60s stuff, most would be sourced from digital based on the 2012 remasters (or the most recent PS remaster).

The chance of new mono vinyl is still appealing, but over on the Hoffman board, the King Bean himself has suggested that the quality of the project hinges on a skilled individual tracking down true mono original masters would take some doing, as in his opinion, the current compiled master tapes contain some inferior dubs.

ALL TITLES UP FOR PRE ORDER —

Hybrid Stereo SACDs: (Surfin USA, Surfer Girl, Little Deuce Coupe, Shut Down Volume 2, All Summer Long, Today, Summer Days, Beach Boys' Party, Smiley Smile, Sunflower, Surf's Up and Holland)

All titles contain original mono mixes and stereo mixes (and some remixes, I think).  All mastered by Kevin Gray at Cohearent Audio.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&artistID=2776&categoryID=11 (http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&artistID=2776&categoryID=11)

(Pet Sounds is MFSL, not part of this release campaign)

Hybrid Mono SACD: (Surfin Safari)

Contains original mono mix.  Mastered by Kevin Gray at Cohearent Audio.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&artistID=2776&categoryID=12 (http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&artistID=2776&categoryID=12)

Hybrid Multichannel SACD: (Pet Sounds)

Contains original mono mix and stereo mix (1996) + multichannel.  Mastered by Kevin Gray at Cohearent Audio.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&artistID=2776&categoryID=10 (http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&artistID=2776&categoryID=10)

All listed as 'Coming in 2015'.

If someone wants to link the vinyls...  have at it.  Many of the vinyls appear to be shipping later in December on into January.  And the SACDs are sure to follow.

I feel like I need to pinch myself as I type this.

I started another thread to mention this, but I figure it'd fit in here too...

So, I was snoopin' around on Acoustic Sounds website since they are doing those SACD Beach Boys releases or whatever. Anyways, when I clicked on Holland, look what I found... (http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=detail&Title_ID=95597)

Our Analogue Productions reissue brings back "We Got Love," a single eliminated from original U.S. copies of the album. Now added as a bonus track!

Kinda cool. I personally don't care all that much about it, but I'm sure there'll be some pretty happy people around here after hearing that.

Good one!

If the Vinyl availability dates are reliable, that finds me with my coffers empty (despite the year or so lead time)

Thanks Alan,  missed this post due to pressures of panto rehearsals – and before you ask, "oh yes I am!"

Much appreciated.  The Japanese discs are hybrids, I believe, not sure about the AP discs.

Oh no, gotta a go… I think one of the, erm, kids is sticking a honey-coated waffle into the disc drawer…

Here's a search link to Acoustic Sounds site filtered for the Vinyl:

http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&searchtext=beach%2Cboys&CategoryID=16&ResultsPerPage=40 (http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&searchtext=beach%2Cboys&CategoryID=16&ResultsPerPage=40)

Quick summary:

Audio production — Mark Linett

For Brother Records — Elliott Lott

- Mastered by Kevin Gray at Cohearent Audio, most from the original master tapes or best sources available
Meaning, not everything has been sourced from the original analogue masters

- Lacquer plating by Gary Salstrom and 200-gram vinyl pressing by Quality Record Pressings!

- Mono or Stereo editions (no double albums etc) @ $30 (as John mentioned above).  Surfin' Safari is mono only no stereo

- Safari, USA, Girl, LDC, SDV2 are expected by December 16

- All other items are expected in 2015 (perhaps we can assume in 2 tranches of 5 and 4, or 4 and 5)

- Sunflower, SUP, Holland are Stereo only obviously.

No mention of the key word "Matrix" in the Sunflower description.

Holland includes We Got Love, as per Sweet Dude-J's tip,and Mount Vernon and Fairway (A Fairy Tale), whatever that is:
Our Analogue Productions reissue also includes a bonus 12-inch EP: Mount Vernon and Fairway (A Fairy Tale). Plus the restoration of "We Got Love," eliminated from original U.S. copies of the album!

12” Mount Vernon EP
      Side 1:
      Mt. Vernon And Fairway – Theme
      I’m The Pied Piper
      Better Get Back In Bed
      Magic Transistor Radio
      
Side 2:
      I’m The Pied Piper
      Radio King Dom
      We’ve Got Love

 :p Arr, the APs are Hybrids - confirmed.  Hope the Hoover's near by (It's behind you)

12" fairytale with we got love! very nice indeed  :hat

Agree… this one at least is looking a must-have… very tempted by that mono Surfin Safari too, as well as, well, all the others. Will have to send the kids to work at t'mill.

The inclusion of We Got Love is a must buy for me now! Damn them!

 :tm

Some release dates from Acoustic Sounds:

(http://i61.tinypic.com/1582yx5.png)

(http://i58.tinypic.com/1z374ec.png)

(http://i62.tinypic.com/24wexcx.png)


That's a total of 24 LP's and 14 hybrid SACD's.

At 30 bucks a pop, you can buy 'em all for a mere US $1140.

I weep for Friends.

No deal if they're gonna exclude the Christmas Album, Wild Honey, Stack-o-Tracks, and 20/20.   It's all or nuttin'!  Leave out the 60's Greatest Hits albums, but you leave out my Wild Honey and no dice, baby!

Rhonda and Good Vibrations are using the Digital Extractions, however there is no mention of 409, A Young Man Is Gone or I Get Around being Extractions mixes? Maybe it's a typo or they found more tapes?

Time to cherry pick methinks... And that UK shipping and thus customs charges prospect terrifies me...

Christmas gifts for years to come!

What are they quoting for shipping to Olde England?

I can only imagine it's out of this world! The least expensive US shipping option for Holland was $10.19 for 2 day shipping, where I'd be happy for standard 1-2 week for $4...

For international, AS site  doesn't calculate a rate straight up, you have to "enquire" about it when you place your order.

Then AS will find the best rate available, they say.

The site does, however, calc the package weight, so I could assume UPS slow boat rates + 20% handling, phaps.

*deleted*

.

I have to say, I am very excited for these releases. It's quite unfortunate that Wild Honey, Friends, and 20/20 aren't included, though I can understand the business sense behind that.

But, given Acoustic Sounds' reputation (I was just reading amazing reviews of their transfer and new release of Duke Ellington's 1951 Masterpieces album, for instance), these hold promise of finally representing these records the way they're supposed to sound. I'll wait to see Stephen Desper's response, but I hope they will manage to capture, for instance, more of the original intended sound of Sunflower .

The last pressing that I bought a few years ago was a definite improvement in sound over any CD release so far. Can it really sound even better?

Yes. I am relatively new to the audiophile world, but I have discovered that there is a big difference between an average consumer release and what a label geared to audiophiles does. Half-speed mastering and other techniques which take great care to capture as much sonic information on the original master tape as possible are the norm with these specialty labels (MOFI, Acoustic Sounds, etc.).

I would be very surprised if this release of Sunflower, for instance, doesn't sound significantly better than the 2009 vinyl release. You will likely hear increased separation and clarity of individual instruments and an increased sense of presence. And I suspect the difference between this and the 2009 vinyl will be bigger than the difference you heard between that and the CD.

I could be wrong, but I suspect (and hope) I'm not.

Always enjoy Beach Boys remasters but isn't this a bit of overkill?  Weren't most of these albums just re-released two years ago?  The SACD remastering should be nice, but there are only so many times I'm willing to repurchase the same album...

See my previous statements above. These are specialty releases and are targeted toward a different audience; they are not Capitol products and they have a different reason for existing. They will be superior in terms of sound quality to average releases. That interests some people and not others. All fair.

Beyond the formats themselves or any related inherent advantages, I think some are simply excited by the notion that someone *else* is doing the mastering besides ML. This isn't a dig at Mark, but, like anyone, his work is going to be seasoned with his own personal tastes and style -- EQ choices, gear, other processing/plug-ins, etc. And that may not always line up with a particular listener's tastes.


Here, again beyond the formats, we're just getting another sonic viewpoint for a rare change. Comparable to the situation with the Mo-Fi, Pet Sounds SACD release. If one is an audiophile, that in itself is fairly monumental in the Beach Boys world these days. I'm looking forward to hearing the results...at least what I can afford. :)

I absolutely agree. I've passed on the more recent releases in the hopes that someone would do audiophile releases of these albums at some point. These are being produced to give fans the best listening experience possible. Not just a rerelease cash grab.

Bullmoose.com  are listing the next slew of Capitol/UME vinyl reissues (Carl and the Passions to '85), targetting late Feb if I'm reading things correctly.

Might start a new thread to.avoid confusion once the APs discussions start rolling in.

They're reissuing 85 on vinyl?????

I sure hope they tone down the massive treble on Sunflower and give it a more natural tone.

Also seemingly due out this month, Pet Sounds on Blu-ray audio:

http://www.amazon.ca/Sounds-Blu-Ray-Audio-Beach-Boys/dp/B00PF7S3B6

This has been scheduled previously but put back for some reason… suddenly we're about to be swimming in high-res audio versions of the album.

Saving the best 'til last.  Guessing it may come with a bonus download of 8 bit midi emulator samples, via a 14.4kbp/s link.

Wonder if the masters were D/A'd to analogue tape or U-matic video tape?

COMMENT: No one has contacted me. "The original intended sound," as you call it will not be provided in these new releases. You will hear it soon with the release of the next study-video.  As to representing analog recordings by using digital methods still remains an incomplete story. They don't call it sampling for nothing. It is just that. A sample of the complete waveform. IT'S A SNAPSHOT of a slice of time.  It is not complete. The computer makes up (guesses) what goes in between the sampled slices of time. Why bother?  Just listen to the original LP. That has the complete sound story -- no sampled segments -- no computer guessing -- and the original Sunflower LP was Mastered and Approved by Carl Wilson. Why depend on someone who never met or worked with the man himself. Why go backward? You're going in the wrong direction if you want to stay with the original. The wrong direction is to re-do everything. The original mixing and mastering is there for the playing on the LP issue. Any other attempt to "improve" on the original is just so much floobydust.  You are not going to improve over Carl Wilson. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Don't remove Carl from the production. That IS a step backward! If you want original sound, it was issued in 1970 by Brother Records on Warner Brother's Record # RS-6832. It contains complete waveforms, is totally a Beach Boy production, and if you think the LP record comes up short on sound, you are wrong. The LP is quite capable of containing all (ALL) of the sound from any Master Analog Tape. It does not add noise, distortion or limitation to the signal on the master tape. The real listening experience, that is the one that sounds most musical, is the LP. Going back and re-doing what Carl did in Mixing and Mastering is a slap in the face. Nothing has improved in professional audio that much to warrant replacing the original artist and his intentions with a counterfeit rendition. If you are a collector, they've got your number and will keep issuing bogus "original" and so-called "improved" copies. I suppose the fake remakes do have some collector value, but their value is in the eye of the collector, not in the ear of the audiophile. If you really want the real thing, so far the original LP is the pot of gold at the end of the Sunflower rainbow. ~swd

I sure hope they tone down the massive treble on Sunflower and give it a more natural tone.

COMMENT:  Me Too. If you want to hear a balanced sound, listen to the original LP, mastered by Carl Wilson and myself at Artisan. ~swd

Unfortunately, there is no way for me to get an original LP, so I settle with the last LP pressing, which is at least better than the 70s one I stumbled upon first - that 70s pressing has a terrible sound and is definitely not a first pressing as approved by CW and SWD, as you can tell from two songs being in the wrong order.

In this age, there is always a way if you want it bad enough.

Interesting comment from Steve Hoffman himself, over at the Hoffman forums:

"I hope they have a really good line producer for these, a real expert. Kevin Gray is a world-class mastering maven but research is not his strong point (nor should it be, he's an engineer). If it's just Chad and Kevin with no producer in the middle, it's going to be very iffy. Why? I'll tell you:

I remember those mono BB tapes are very tricky. Some of the good stuff isn't on the LP reels but reassembled on to various phono single reels, EP reels, Greatest Hits comp tapes, etc. The LP reels have MANY inferior versions of some of the songs, really crappy sounding, phase problems, muffled, just bad replacement dubs to take the place of the correct versions moved to other reels. It will take a really good detective to find all of the correct versions of every song and to reassemble correctly. On the Nat Cole's I worked on it took YEARS to find every correct version of every song.

I hope they have someone who knows their stuff.. "

With Alan Boyd this should all be documented and not a problem. If ever there is a time to be able find the correct tapes and reels, it is now. Hoffman really shows his disdain for Mark's work. He is always gently knocking his work. If you read on, I told him to ask his buddy Kevin about it. He should have done that before posting what he did.

Also, he tried to incite a riot on there by trying to claim that the mono tapes were being remixed due to some wording on the Acoustic Sounds advertisement.

AMEN ... thank you Mr. Desper. I also wish that they would use original "works in progress" or alternate mixes when they do these archive releases instead of the endless remixes. I would much rather hear what you and 'the boys' were hearing in the studio as a fly on the wall, than a modern re-interpretation. It also bugs me that they continue to include newer remixes instead of original mixes on box sets and compilations. The original vinyl SUNFLOWER is just right ... particularly the sonics on "At My Window" and "Tears in the Morning".

There is a book that mentions something like 20+ mixes made of "Add Some Music" ... it would be nice to listen to some of those, not as a definitive statement but as a step on the way to the final master.

IMO, He was more  questioning the blurb wording of "mono mixes supervised by Brian Wilson" as opposed to stirring things up. It's a fair question to seek clarity on exactly what sources are being used, and one I had myself on reading the A/S copy.

I love and treasure the DCC Pet Sounds, Endless Summer and Spirit Of America but I'm still lucid enough to know that his comments are born out of some sort of odd insecurity.  Not sure how else to characterize it.

When the Acoustic Sounds releases were announced, I got very excited and still very much am.  The idea of having someone of Kevin Gray's ilk capturing (for vinyl/sacd/dsd) these timeless masters is really a dream come true.  

That's no slam on any of the other BB releases in circulation.  I'm a big fan of Mark's work on The Smile Sessions and Made In California, particularly the latter.  I would normally be one of those people that would be inclined to dislike digital mastering on principle.  However, after actually HEARING them and experiencing them first hand, I think he and Boyd did a bang-up job.  I try not to get too nerdy about this stuff but I have a Dynamic Range applet that I use on my Mac and quite a few of the tracks from Made In California are DR10 or better.

The vinyls aren't of much interest to me, primarily because I don't own a turntable and have no plans in the future to own one.  The cramped nature of home life and small children are a toxic mix for a record collection.  And I'm kind of anal retentive.  I would almost need my own personal office space to be completely 100% OCD free and own vinyl.  

:-D

That particular detail, about which mono mixes will be used is of special interest to me.  Without rehashing everything posted on the Hoffman board, as I have mentioned there, it's dissapointing knowing that some of the "mono" mixes on certain releases of Pet Sounds and more recently other titles (Today and Summer Days, for example) have been partially or completely remixed from multitracks.

There was a video floating around on Vimeo, taken by some advertising company (I think?) filming Kevin Gray actually doing the transfer of the mono Surfer Girl for this project.  It looked as though he was doing a straight transfer and he mentioned some tweaks being down during mastering.  But no mention of remixing was made, which is welcome news.

It's Acoustic Sounds track record and attention to detail that I think will most likely be the selling points here.  I don't think they would go through all of the trouble of doing this and then use mono 'remixes'.  Although, they do mention up front that some of the stereo mixes contain newly created 'remixes'.  Probably the same one's found on more recent Beach Boys releases.

He knows both Mark & Kevin and should asked before he posted that. It did get a rise. :)

I absolutely hear you. And thank you so much for offering your take on things. It's so great having you here as a presence. The only thing I don't quite agree with is the idea that a company like Analog Productions/Acoustic Sounds is trying to produce "fake remakes." I think their stated goal is to transfer the sound of master tapes (like the one that you and Carl created) as faithfully as possible to vinyl and SACD, and make a good-sounding record available to larger numbers of people than can find copies of the original LP in near-mint condition. And I take them at face value in that stated goal. And yes, they're a business, and so they make occasionally dubious or arguable marketing claims like "the best these recordings have ever sounded." But the main point is they're trying to fill a legitimate need that does music listeners a great amount of good while simultaneously having a sustainable business. I would never claim these reproduce the originals fully. But perhaps they at least get closer and are very excellent in the process.

And I agree with you also in that I wish more vinyl reissues didn't involve any digital links in the chain. I believe Analog Productions does usually use only analog sources when preparing vinyl reissues. Can anyone confirm whether this is true and will be true for these issues?

Given the fact there were really good sounding CDs with the mono mixes issued two years ago, I'd think all original mixes were found, unless...


No kidding?!? Which ones?

No kidding?!? Which ones?
[/quote]

The intro of Wouldn't it be Nice, You Still Believe in Me, I'm Waiting for the Day on 2012 remastered CD

Listen to the intros of the mono "Wouldn't It Be Nice", "God Only Knows" from the 1990 Capitol Pet Sounds, 2006 40th Anniversary Capitol Pet Sounds & the 2012 Capitol Pet Sounds – all are very clean with almost no tape hiss, etc.  It would appear that the multitracks were used to remix intros to these songs.

"Please Let Me Wonder" from Today! and "California Girls" from Summer Days on the 2012 remasters also have this.  "Please Let Me Wonder" sounds like a complete mono remix, to my ears.  When compared to other releases.

Please understand, I'm not condemning the practice, per se.  I just prefer the original without the revisionism.  I'm not so ardent when it comes to the stereo versions. 

Umm... I'm not sure I get this right. You're saying even on the 1990 version those intros had already been remixed?

Dear Stephen Desper,

I thought I should tell you that I heard your words and decided to go on ebay and find a good-quality original from a reliable vendor. And I found one quite easily, actually.

I look forward to hearing it. And I look forward to being able to compare the differences between it and the upcoming reissue and thereby learn more. Thank you for steering me in the right direction!

Yep.

I would never claim these reproduce the originals fully. But perhaps they at least get closer and are very excellent in the process.

And I agree with you also in that I wish more vinyl reissues didn't involve any digital links in the chain. I believe Analog Productions does usually use only analog sources when preparing vinyl reissues. Can anyone confirm whether this is true and will be true for these issues?

COMMENT:  As a sound engineer and as an audiophile, I have heard the best of the best representations available from both digital and analog storage means. To my ears analog wins every time. Mostly because of its ability to present a musically satisfying playback.

In this response I am addressing issues with the songs and albums I've mastered.  Everything up to Holland was created in a world of analog with mass distribution being the LP vinyl record. In those days, digital was just a laboratory curiosity.

When each song’s Master Two-Track tape is completed, it joins other mixdown Master tapes, by way of splicing, and becomes the Album Master Tape. Since this tape contains mixdowns that were done over several weeks or months, you can expect the overall sonic signature of each song along with its levels to be mis-matched with respect to the other mixes. There are also changes that are required of the producer to be made “after the fact” or after the final mix is finished. These changes are executed at the time of mastering and represent subtle, but still significant modifications done to the sound of the master tape. In the case of Sunflower there were around fifty modifications to EQ, levels, limiting, and filter application done at the time of mastering. These changes are approved by the producer and usually physically done by the mastering engineer. The changes are noted so that they can be repeated if required. However, if the mastering house used to make the LP goes out-of-business or changes the equipment it used when the notations were made – it all becomes meaningless. I know Artisan is no longer in business so that means the notations are undoubtedly lost. In anticipation of this and for practical reasons a Master LP tape is always made. The Master LP tape is used to make additional mother discs that are used to make stampers. In my collection I have first pressings of the LP. These are made from the first mother disc cut directly from the mastering house console. At the same time a Master LP tape is made. It is one generation removed from the first mother disc. The Master LP tape is used to make additional mother discs and also it is sent (or a copy of this tape is sent) to pressing plants overseas or in New York City. Thus the LP Master tape is actually the final finish of all production.

The LP Master tape is the final sound that is approved by the producer and/or mixing engineer. But remember, this tape is made for the analog LP medium. When the digital CD came into vogue, most record companies preferred to go back before the LP Master tape, which was flavored to sound best over a vinyl record, and re-do the mastering so that it sounded better over a CD. There was so much re-mastering being done that many albums were given little attention to details.

Then complete digital recordings were being made, that is, recorded in digital and released in digital (DDD). When the analog CD’s (AAD) or (ADD) were compared to the all digital offerings, the analog sounded dull. This was not because they lacked top-end, but because the general public developed an appetite for sizzling top-end sound that is a characteristic of digital sonics. That is why digital seems to sound clearer, while at the same time less musical and fatiguing to listen to over a long period. It is also why so many re-issues of analog over CD have added treble and excessive top-end EQ.

Now we come to today and the re-making of the LP. Acoustic Sounds isn’t the only pressing plant to make these records. They were re-pressed by Warner Brothers and by Capitol Records many times using The Master LP tape or a copy thereof. My beef with these re-pressings of today is that they are not made from the Master LP, thus preserving the entire original intensions of the producer – rather they are re-mastered and therefore DO NOT preserve or mimic any of the instructions and guide lines of the producer. In fact the new mastering engineer takes on the roll of producer and just eliminates the original intent of the artist by substituting their own ideas about the production.

Sometimes you hear that albums must be re-mastered because of improved equipment or techniques. In the case of the LP, it’s still the same RIAA specifications we use today that were in force back in 1970. It’s the same vinyl material, sometimes with more weight – which has nothing to do with the sound. The cutting head improvements are very slight. So why not use the original LP Master tape, mastered by the original artist/producer? And don’t tell me they can’t be found. There are professional copies in several places – I even have a copy.

Another issue to address is the actual physical location of the mastering house and pressing plant. These should be close together to prevent unnecessary deterioration of the matrix mother before it is plated. (After about 18 hours it begins to loose groove detail.) In the case of Beach Boy Master analog tapes, these are stored in Los Angeles, CA. I have never known of Capitol or Warners to let their master tapes venture very far from LA. Copies, yes. The original, never. So if you are located in Kansas (like Acoustic Sounds) and you wish to make an LP run, you either get a copy of the analog tape (one generation down) or you get a high resolution digital copy, or you stay in LA and use a pressing plant located there (which I doubt). Now if they used the LP Master tape, which could be sent to Kansas, then there would be no need to re-master, would there?  So since they are re-mastering, they are doing so from a copy of the Master Tape in some form and they are loosing all the changes that Carl wanted.

This is progress?  This is better?  This is an improvement?

What it is, is business – the music business. If there’s money to be made through re-issues, re-packaging, re-arranging titles, or re-mastering – it will be done. Doesn’t matter if it is true to the original, or steps all over the artist, as long as there is a market out there and a market place to sell the product, the whole idea is to make a buck. Myself and I’m certain you too have no problem with people making money, I just hate to see original art replaced with different art and sold as some sort of improved art.

~swd 

COMMENT:  Good Move. When you get your LP, look within the lead-out grooves and see if the Artisan logo is visible. It's a circle with an "A" combined. If you see that logo, then you have an original pressing from the original mastering house. If you don't see the Artisan logo, then you have a pressing made sometime after the original offering, or a re-issued or second pressing, or third pressing. Should be the same as the original, just a generation down. If you have a VIP or similar record cleaning machine, you can bring the LP back to its initial finish and reduce or eliminate most pop and crack that a used LP will have accumulated.

Good Listening, ~Stephen W. Desper

To be fair though, these were mastered by Kevin Gray at Cohearent Audio, in Los Angeles.

http://www.cohearent.com/ (http://www.cohearent.com/)

The listings on the AcousticSounds site has the following tag: "Mastered by Kevin Gray at Cohearent Audio, most from the original master tapes or best sources available", FWIW.

By the way – your "alternate mix" of "'Til I Die" is one of the highlights of the entire catalog, in this man's opinion.

Mr. Despers "alternate mix" is the one that really made me appreciate that recording. There's so much more emotion in that mix than in the mix on the Surf's Up album.

Thank you so much for this analysis and the contribution of your knowledge. I am grateful to have more information and improve my understanding of how this works. There was one listing that specifically mentioned Artisan, but I don't think it was the one I bought, and now I can't find it anymore! Darn. There's also a DJ promo version being sold. Would that be a worthwhile purchase?

COMMENT:  Thanks on TID.  AcousticSounds uses the same analog equipment that was originally used. A Studer:Neumann mix. The pressing plant is undoubtedly somewhere nearby in the city. For some of the songs and albums he's re-issuing, some may have LP tapes. Whether they elect to go with the original or not is Engineer Gray's decision. He becomes the producer at this point. If I recall, Gray was just starting at Artisan when we were mastering there with Bob McCloud. Obviously AcousticSounds feels there is a market out there for product if done with the care and perfection to which Kevin will give it. I tend to agree with them, but too bad to not, once again, explore the matrix.  ~swd

 

 There was one listing that specifically mentioned Artisan, but I don't think it was the one I bought, and now I can't find it anymore! Darn. There's also a DJ promo version being sold. Would that be a worthwhile purchase?

COMMENT:  There were several runs of Sunflower done over the years. After the Artisan versions came pressings from Capitol Pressing Plant (under Warner contract) being one generation down.  DJ promos are usually end runs or pressings near the limit of the stamper's life that may not be considered for sale. Not good enough for the public, but good enough for a sample to a DJ. The envelope or jacket will have a hole punched into the corner.

~swd

 

Thank you!

Thank you for all of your input Mr. Desper. I checked out my copy of Sunflower and it is indeed an Artisan copy. It's not in mint shape but it does sound fantastic.

I appreciate all of Stephen's comments, and there is certainly validity to urging everyone to hear Sunflower or Surf's Up as Carl intended, mastered for LP.  However, LP's, although gaining in popularity in recent years, are very much a niche market, unlike in the 60s and 70s.  Digital is how most people buy and hear music.  Shouldn't these people get a chance to hear and appreciate the music of the Beach Boys?

So let's say it's perfectly OK, for the legacy of the Beach Boys and the musical enjoyment of music fans who only listen to digital, to master these LP's for CD.  The LP masters are as Stephen has pointed out made for the analogue LP medium and so the original master tape has to have modifications made to it to fit that medium.  Dynamic range has to be limited, and bass response limited so as to prevent the needle from jumping off the record.  As Stephen said, many other modifications  - sound levels of the tracks changed so as to have some consistency of sound, etc. - may be made.  But many of these changes such as DR and bass response are unnecessary in the digital medium.  They are compromises in the sound necessary for analogue but not digital reproduction.

That is why digital mastering engineers want to go to the original master, not the LP source tape.  They can remove or avoid some of those compromises that were made, and get closer to the original master which is ultimately what most artists have heard as the end result of their labor in the studio and approved.  If there are engineering/mastering notes still in existence, the digital engineer can reproduce the modifications of the original producer that were made for artistic reasons rather than just the limitations of the LP medium.  Without them, they are left to make their own decisions, hopefully guided by the original LP pressing of the album, as Steve Hoffman and I'm sure most good engineers would do.

This is why the mastering engineer is so important in determining the sound of all the digital releases and rereleases of the classic albums from the 60s and the 70s.  Do they add additional compression to make the digital files sound more lively and attention grabbing in mp3 form or on your ipod or phone, both with very poor D/A converters?  Do they boost the treble to give it more excitement, but which tortures your ears after five minutes of listening?  Do they boost the bass to a ridiculous level for those into beat boxing and Dr. Dre Beats headphones?  All of these obviously would change the sound from the original LP for the worse!  But other engineers would avoid all those mistakes and try to keep the sound true to the master tape and to the LP.  Kevin Gray and Steve Hoffman are two of the "good guys" who are concerned with the sound of the final product both sounding good and also sounding faithful to the orignal source tapes.

Kevin Gray might be, but I think the Hoff tends towards projects that are to the greater benefit of his Hoffness; imo

Anyway, again a fascinating discussion about Sunflower, thanks to all who chipped in, more great info was revealed - if only I had one of those darn adaptor devices that Desper had on offer in days of old! Nuts.

COMMENT

Thank you Bicyclerider for your observation.

However, LP's, although gaining in popularity in recent years, are very much a niche market, unlike in the 60s and 70s.  Digital is how most people buy and hear music. We certainly live in a digital world so the point you make that music of the analog era must be made available through the digital medium to the masses, is quite true. LPs are enjoying a resurgence in popularity (vinyl records are the fastest growing medium of music storage today) and a reemergence as the best musical sounding medium of music storage yet invented. That re-discovery of sonic purity comes as a relief from the digital sampling we have listened to for over two decades now. Of course digital is here to stay. It’s convenient, sounds good over 98% of the playback devices we all use, and copies do not deteriorate. It can also be edited and manipulated beyond anything that can be done in the analog element. So why the return to analog?

This interest in the LP is mainly from the audiophile market, where the average system cost is over $10,000, which gives the listener a system resolution capable of revealing the most subtle nature of sound. What the audiophile hears is what’s missing from digital and what is provided by analog. You can hear the computer’s idea of what should go into the spaces between samples. And whatever you call that missing data or made-up data does not matter, if you recognize upon hearing the analog, that you have been fooled into believing that digital was better. If you are spending $50,000 on a two-channel playback system you want the best sounding source you can find. Hence these people, these audiophiles, have created a new market for the vinyl LP, only because playback systems are now that good (if you have the money).

You ask,   Shouldn't these people get a chance to hear and appreciate the music of the Beach Boys? You say that as if only the LP was the means to hear the Beach Boys. And of course, most fans today have ONLY heard the Beach Boys via some sort of digital medium. And that’s the point. If everyone is that gung-ho on returning to the days of analog sound, then it will be necessary for them to invest in a sound system that will be good enough to appreciate the wonderful reproduction only available from an analog source. Otherwise, most people will be spinning CD’s and quite happy for them.

The LP masters are as Stephen has pointed out made for the analogue LP medium and so the original master tape has to have modifications made to it to fit that medium. If I gave that impression, let me clarify. The professional master tape running at 15 IPS or 30 IPS has a dynamic range of 70db. An LP’s dynamic range is 75db. A CD’s is 93db. Clearly both the LP and the CD can contain the dynamic range capacity of the profession master tape. The professional tape has a frequency range of 20-50,000 Hz. The LP’s range is from 25-25,000 Hz. The CD goes from 0-20,000 Hz and the DVD extends that another octave. So again, the LP is quite capable of handling all that the master tape can send to it. The idea that the CD has more bass is just left-over propaganda from the days of the CD’s introduction. I have LP’s that go very low. The lowest sound on Surf’s Up is 32 Hz and the highest (as observed through a microscope looking at the V-groove in a typical pressing) is 24,000 Hz. I have a record in my collection that is the recording of an earthquake. It goes down to around 5 Hz. You can watch the stylus move back and forth, it’s so low.

Dynamic range has to be limited, and bass response limited so as to prevent the needle from jumping off the record. Dynamic range does not have to be limited as a function of some limit of the LP record. It is limited for mixing reasons which I’ll go into later. As for the stylus jumping out of the groove, that only happens if something is at an extremely high level and must be out-of-phase. Otherwise remember that the phase is shifted 180 degrees in the cutting head to prevent excessive vertical motion. This shift causes in-phase bass sounds to modulate in the lateral plane (side-to-side). That will not throw the stylus out of the grove or vertically, it only moves it laterally. So again, the reason for limiting is not to “prevent the needle from jumping off the record.” For it to do that you have to exceed the RIAA spec. by 200%.

But many of these changes such as DR and bass response are unnecessary in the digital medium.  They are compromises in the sound necessary for analogue but not digital reproduction. This is not what I said, or wanted to say if I said it wrong. First dynamic range is not limited by the LP. In fact it’s the other way around. Second, the record will go lower than tape, so that is also NOT a consideration. Compromise of dynamic range and frequency response is better for the LP than for the tape. It is the Master tape that is the limiting factor here, not the CD. So confining dynamics or response for the LP or the CD is not why this is done.

Why are dynamics limited?  They are not limited because of the master tape, LP, or CD as a means of recording. They are limited because of reproduction problems or playback habits. As any mixer soon finds out, voices and instruments or multiple voices can each be heard better in the overall mix if each is limited to a narrower dynamic range where they do not compete with each other for dominance. One voice may be softer at some point while another voice may be louder, so the louder voice is heard. But in the mix you want both voices heard, so you limit both voices so that each one remains about as loud as the other, making both audible for the entire song. Overall limiting is also applied to most commercial recordings so that in playback the song can be heard in a normal listening environment where there is some background noise. Yes the dynamic range can be heard unlimited if the background noise is as quiet as a control room or country house’s living room, but the general population lives in a din of noise, so the softer sounds must be “lifted” to be heard. If you don’t use some limiting, you may loose income from sales since some of your audience just can’t hear what you are mixing. This is now gone overboard with today’s typical over-compressed CD, but still limiting is not required because of the medium’s limitations, it’s because of our listening habits.

As Stephen said, many other modifications  - sound levels of the tracks changed so as to have some consistency of sound, etc. - may be made. That is true, but it is true for the LP, the CD, and the DVD. Anytime you master anything, part of the job is to marry the end of one song to the beginning of the next. Typically the end and the beginning are miles apart in levels, so some manipulation is required, or at least used because it makes for a more enjoyable overall listening experience. But these changes made between songs or while the song is moving from verse to chorus to bridge, are done, again not because of the medium but because the artist notices small changes that he or she wishes made to better the performance or mix. It is a function of “mastering” and not a function of moving from one medium to another. I’ll make an exception for the 45. But again, here is an example of how increasing the density of a recording medium actually requires more limiting. Why?  Because the 45, although having greater dynamic range than the 33 1/3 record, is designed to be played on a small-speaker portable record player marketed for the youth – for teenage boys and girls who could care less about dynamic range, thus the dynamic range was flattened to a few dB, then lifted in level to the maximum possible. Thus the 45 had a loud sound even after being thrown around, handled, and never cleaned. But I degress.

In our discussion, I have concluded that you take the more typical role of the mastering house in the scheme of things. That is, the group mixes, and hands the Master Tape over to a mastering house for conversion to whatever mass distribution system is used.

But in the case of the times I worked with them, they were involved in mastering. One, two or three and myself attended mastering sessions. MUSICAL changes were made in some songs during the mastering mix. The Beach Boys as producers, acted like producers and saw that every aspect of their creation(s) was overseen or monitored in some way. This included mastering. It did not include inspecting the pressings. I did that.

So if you backup into the Mixdown Master and redo the Mastering Mix, discarding the Beach Boy influence, then you are changing the music or the music production from “by The Beach Boys®” to music production “by Acoustic Sounds.” It’s not the original.

One the other hand, if you use the LP Master or Mastering Mix tape, play it on their Studer recorder, Use the Neumann Lath with the “77 Cutter, that would about equal the same thing we were doing in the 70’s.      

  If there are engineering/mastering notes still in existence, the digital engineer can reproduce the modifications of the original producer that were made for artistic reasons rather than just the limitations of the LP medium. I would say that in the case of The Beach Boys, all changes are for artistic reasons. The LP as a medium has no limitations with respect to the tape itself. The constraint is the playback, the “playback” experienced by millions of listeners. Playback conditions vary from excellent to crappy. There must be a certain robustness to any mass-media distribution scheme. 78’s shattered so the softer vinyl replaced the spinning disc. Optical has its 3-tear coding for robustness. So for example, the LP dynamic range may be 75 dB, but to experience that kind of dynamic you would need to be listening in a Christian Science Reading Room or an acoustic noise rating of RT-30. The upper limit of dynamic is set by our ears. It’s about 105 dB for only a few minutes. So if you listen at 100 dB, (that’s loud) using a dynamic range of 75 dB means you will need to have a room quite enough to hear 25 dB. That is the noise level in a small concert hall or church in the country. So you see the 75 dB isn’t the only story in mastering. It’s not the medium that decides; it’s really the environment you envision will be typical for your listener. If you are mastering a classical orchestra number, you might assume the listener is in a quite environment and is paying close attention. Here going for a wide dynamic may be desired. Usually it’s obvious or the mastering engineer makes this decision. However with The Beach Boys, most of the time Carl made that decision, which was for a quite living room. Anything greater than 45 to 50dB of dynamic swing would be ample. Example: Top listening level of a typical stereo system in a family setting is 85 dB – dynamic range 45 dB requires a room noise level of 40 dB, which is average for a bedroom in a house. So if 45 dB is the required dynamic range, then tape, LP, and CD can handle it. There is no need to modify anything because of dynamic limitations of a medium. Not required. Increasing from 16 to 24 bit will give you an additional 48dB of dynamic range. When most pop records have only 12 to 15 dB of dynamic range. Even classical recordings need only double that range, so what do you need the extra 48dB for? It just takes up storage space. As to highs and lows and flatness of response, all the storage mediums exceed most playback systems in use today. That is to say, the playback system will color the sound to a much greater awareness than the LP or CD. So again, you don’t need to change things for the medium because of response. The tape is good to about 25,000 Hz, the LP for 24,000, and the CD has a brick wall filter at 19,500.
Not much to worry with at those extreme top frequencies, unless you’re a bat!  

Why put limits on frequency response? Sometimes it makes the instrument clearer. In mastering, one voice or one instrument can be raised or lowered, even after the mix, by frequency balance through applied equalization. It may be for only a few bars, but it could make up for a deficiency in the final mix. Those are musical decisions, not based on medium limits or differences. That is why I say, it’s no longer “Produced by The Beach Boys.”

When we were mastering Sunflower and Surf’s Up , Gary was, I think, just starting out at Artisan. I worked with Bob McCloud. So Gary had a good teacher. I believe he uses Studer playback and Neumann Lathe with the same cutter head used at Artisan. Who knows? Maybe it’s the same damn Lathe. The console is, for the most part going to sound about the same – clean as a whistle. So if an LP Master or Mastering Master tape is used and fed straight through, it should be the same as back in 1970. Otherwise Gary becomes the producer.        

That is why digital mastering engineers want to go to the original master, not the LP source tape. I use to think this too, but I’ve since changed my thinking. Consider that these albums were conceived on all levels to be analog. Not just analog, but analog on the LP record. That was the original sound. Not before on the mix tape. That sound is from a well-designed control room with a stone-quiet to 120dB sound system of dynamic range and fidelity. Mastering takes it from the pristine listening environment to a more average listing setting. For The Beach Boys the commercial product was in the creative loop; it’s part of the their production. It may sound strange, but the target for the sound was the LP, so we know the CD will not limit the LP, so put the LP sound on the CD, as it was intended. Don’t extend the bottom, then add highs to balance and wonder where your listening tolerance went. And keep all the limiting in place. Sometimes it’s used for musical balance and not to keep needles from jumping out of groves.

A piece from my book Recording The Beach Boys comes to mind, which I will paraphrase here.

Restorers decided that Leonardo da Vinci’s Mona Lisa should be updated. It was created using old technology. Newer paints, such as acrylic oil, would bring more vivid colors and greater depth of contrast to the original idea of Leonardo’s (we are now on a first name bases). So following the brush strokes of Leonardo we embellished the old oil paints with the new acrylic types. These added stunning color and deep black contrasts that could only be appreciated in a completely darkened and black room. Mona Lisa’s smile seemed to jump from the canvas and embrace the viewer with a virtual kiss on the lips! What an improvement to this old master. We keep getting reports that people are discarding there old Mona Lisa prints in favor of the new “cartoon-y” looking Mona Lisa. Thank goodness that we can rescue these old originals and remake them in our modern image.        

I’ve said a lot here. I look forward to your feed back.  ~swd

You have indeed said a lot Stephen!  But as always, a fascinating read! ;D. Particularly for someone like myself who wants to know as much as possible about the recordings and the processes involved in capturing the sound, and the best way to be able to appreciate it.

Thank you for taking the time to post.  The records you made with the Beach Boys have stood the test of time sound wise, that's for sure.  I don't think people give you all enough credit for the innovative approaches you were taking back then.

This digital malarkey is bogus. Any and every REAL music consumer still sticks to vinyl, and the 14 essential BBs albums is:: surfin usa, surfer girl, lil deuce coupe, shut down vol2, all summer long, today, summer days, pet sounds, smiley smile, wild honey, 20/20, sunflower, surfs up, holland...right?

This is a fascinating discussion and I have enjoyed reading Stephen Desper's comments, insights, and opinions.

Perhaps I'm obsessive in regard to Sunflower, since I own 14 vinyl copies of the album (as well as a number of CDs).  Eight of those copies are on the US Brother/Reprise label, including the original i bought on August 21, 1970.  Five of my US copies were purchased new during the years 1970 - 1980, and three were purchased used in the eighties and nineties - a Capitol Record Club pressing and two Reprise Records Radio Station Service copies. 

In the past, having looked the matrix numbers in the lead out grooves, I'd seen the Artisan logo that Stephen describes, but never knew what it represented, so it's really cool to now have that knowledge.  Since there are discernible EQ differences found between many of my vinyl copies of Sunflower (and the CD copies as well), a few years ago I made notes detailing those differences. 

What is interesting, in checking my notes and comparing my listening conclusions to the Artisan mastered LPs, is that the LPs I had found to sound identical to my original 1970 album purchase were all mastered by Artisan, and with one exception those that sounded different do not have the Artisan logo.  To be specific, I have US copies of Sunflower purchased new in 1970, 74, and 78, as well as the two Reprise Radio Station promo copies from 1970 that were all mastered by Artisan and sound identical.  The Capitol Records Club version, which would have been pressed early on, in 1970 or 71, lacks the Artisan logo, but also sounds essentially similar to the original.  But two US copies I purchased new in 1978 and 1980 do not have the Artisan logo and sound significantly worse than the others, with noticeably less bass and overly boosted treble.  (My foreign copies of Sunflower, as well as the US 2009 Capitol LP, also have EQ differences compared to the original.  The US 2009 Capitol LP is unique in this respect in that not only is the overall EQ different from the original US release, but the EQ also varies between various songs in ways not found on the original release.)

Stephen, would it be correct to assume that for some reason the mastering engineer for the poorer sounding Brother/Reprise copies I purchased in 1978 and 1980 was working from an LP master tape which was a copy of the mastering you and Carl did, but for some reason that engineer reduced the bass and boosted the treble when cutting a new LP lacquer?  Or could he have received a tape copy where someone had made those EQ changes?

Not to say that I know better, but I question this line of reasoning. It seems strange  that WB/Rep would stamp as many pressings as were possible for the first run stamper, and place all of these in storage, while pulling the end of the run pressings so as to make the promos that would be sent out weeks, possibly months, prior to the actual release of the LP.

 And, for reference, the Sunflower/SU covers didn't have holes punched, but instead had DJ timing strips pasted onto the covers( usually the front) Capitol releases had many different ways of marking promos.

 I'm curious as to the later copies;  do the ones that sound bad have 31,007/8 or 31,007/8 RE1 as the master # ?
and purely from the collector's view, are any of them on the Steamboat label? ( if so, are they RE1? or first run)

and I don't think 14 copies is even close to being obsessive from a collector's POV

test

COMMENT:  What a fascinating bouquet of Sunflower's you have in your collection. The sonic differences you hear may be do to over-active engineers, but is probably due to the use of different lathe manufactures. I liked Neumann. I thought they were more "Hi-Fi" sounding. Scully Lathes are brighter with less bottom. Ortofon lathes peak in the mids. Neumann seemed more balanced to me. If the record you play has the Artison logo within the leadout grooves, you can be assured that Carl and myself were involved in the mastering. The way it worked back then was that after the final album reel was assembled, it would be mastered. Carl and I had some last minute tweaks made at the time of mastering -- around fifty changes or so. A master disc was cut while at the same time an LP Master (or Mastering Master) tape was made. The final LP Master was mastered to sound correct if the master disc was cut on a Neumann Lathe using an SX-68 or SX-74 cutter head. From the master disk a mother was made, and so forth. Pressings from this first-pressing were approved by Carl and myself. Later pressings were approved by me until there were so many you could not keep track. However, I will assure you that any disc with the Artisan Logo was mastered by Carl and myself and is part of the batch pressed from the Neumann cut master.  Thanks again for the tour of your many Sunflower versions. I never know how many versions there were out there, but I can see how some would sound different from others. ~swd  

I wouldn't believe that when I read what you wrote, but now I finally found the time to check - and it definitely is as you say. On the original there is a mixing flub in the instrumental break they eliminated from the new version. I'm glad the 2009 LP still contains the original mix, from whatever tape they've sourced that from.



Thank you to Mr. Desper and Custom Machine for all that info regarding mastering in general and Sunflower versions! I have the 2009 LP, which to me better than the CD version as I said, but obviously I have no clue how it is supposed to sound! Custom Machine, what is your opinion on the job done with the 2009 print?

Stephen thanks for all the information - this is definitely new info to me that the master tape and LP frequency response and dynamic range are similar and therefor no limitation or modification is necessary because of any limitation of the LP medium.  I had always thought bass response was "shaved" and high frequencies rounded off because of the limits of LP reproduction of sound.  Now I know better. 

COMMENT:  Just to be clear, if spectral restrictions or dynamic limits are applied it is not because of medium limitations. As a general rule these limitations are applied to extend the marketplace for the product. If the playbacks were targeted for a strictly audiophile market, the modifications made to the Master Tape would be kept to a minimum or even none at all. But pop music is marketed to be heard by the average listener through distribution markets or  broadcast markets. If you want to expand a tape master to appeal to a more sophisticated listening crowd you might consider some extension of range, but that requires resetting balances and that gets into the music and so forth and so on. In contrast, if you wish to appeal to the MP3 listeners on their ipods and tablets you may want to limit dynamics and spectral content for them. We see that a lot today. It works both ways. I can't tell you the frequency range for Sunflower on a CD. I would expect it to be close to the LP which has frequencies from 32-24kHz as seen through an inspection microscope. Go to this link and look at the chart. You will find it interesting and it will give you a better sense of fidelity within each storage medium.

>>>  http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/0909/

  ~swd

PS COMMENT  Just got my issue of Stereophile Magazine (January 2015) and on page 22 Bob Katz (mastering engineer) has s feature article that speaks to the issues we have been discussing here.  ~

 

Great question, Micha - I hope Custom or any others would like to chip in an opinion if they are able (no pressure).

I only have an old Stateside pressing and the '09 - the '09 soumds detailed and nuanced - I can hear a lot of vocal and musical intracacies I'd not noticed before.  However, while the bass tones and nice and deep, I feel the presentation is a bit trebly, similar to above comments re the CD.

The '09 pressing was also mastered by Ron McMaster who also remastered the current clutch of UMe Capitol reissues.

I guess this is the printing and packaging of the albums. (for tragic s only) :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FIyYBRTTj0

great video.  been nice to match SUSA the song, with the LP tho

Here's a little more info on the reissues:

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/beach-boys-reissues-master-tapes-ready-ship

Ooh, nice.

Rather! A bit of an unexpected treat - I'm expecting Mr Fremmer to post a review(s) very soon.

Great vids, even if you are not interested in the new editions, but interested in the way this company produces it's product - the hands on approach was quite suprising and appreciated.  I can feel my credit card levitating slowly out of my wallet, each time I see those crystal clear and vaguely hypnotic newly pressed album covers.

The mastering info from Kevin Gray was invaluable - have a listen to his comments about "pre-echo" in vinyl tracks, caused by the lacquer degrading in a short amount of time.  While the UMe releases have been quite well done, some quality related artifacts have shown through (listen to the gap between Do It Again and I Can Hear Music); not indicative of the quality of the mastering, but potentially indicative of differences in the overall end to end quality control between the 2 projects (downstream issues catered for appropriately by A/P project).

Also notice A/S has pushed the shipping date for the first batch back 3 days to 19/12 or 12/19.

I gotta have these. Great choice to use "Surf Jam", my 3rd favorite Surf instrumental of all time.

Why on earth is this YouTube video unplayable in Germany? Because of the music on it? Come on! Fortunately, there's means to view it anyway.

Too bad they don't show the printed SUSA cover in the printing clip. On the ordering webpage http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/95563/The_Beach_Boys-Surfin_USA-200_Gram_Vinyl_Record they show the wrong version of the cover with only 10 songs mentioned, that's from a 70s 10-track reissue. The original had all 12 tracks mentioned. Just a minor detail though.

Love it!  ;D

Happy to send you my address and pay shipping, if you need to clean all these acetates off your shelves! 

This video makes me really hopeful for the sound of these reissues, but it also makes me sad that Wild Honey and Friends weren't included.

I don't understand why they couldn't have done them all (at least the 60s albums) and put them into a lovely big box (similar to the Beatles Mono Box).  Then at least we'd have a coherent release as it might never happen again (I really need saving from buying all of these time and time again!).

Exactly. I was thinking the same thing. They released the Beatles Mono and Stereo boxes (CD & vinyl) - why not give The Boys the same treatment? And it isn't right to leave out ANY of the albums in the Beach Boys 60's catalogue, especially Wild Honey and Friends and 20/20, all of which deserve release. I wonder why Capitol/BRI won't license the last three albums to Analogue??

After watching these videos, I can safely predict that these records will produce the best sound quality that we've ever heard. At 30 smackers apiece, they'd better be!! Might be time to upgrade to two dedicated mono blocks or tube amplifiers and turntable/cartridge/stylus to get the best possible analogue sound possible out of this virgin vinyl.

Curious that there are two vinyl reissue programmes running concurrently, with Party! being the only LP to feature in both.

Then there are two SACD reissue programmes, one from AP and one from Capitol Japan. To be honest I haven't compared the line-ups there for similarities… Amazon UK has a few of some of these listed but the info is so spartan it's impossible to tell what you'd get for your money, which I guess means they're even more confused than I am… someone really clever needs to make a spreadsheet…

John, it is all a bit of a mess.  Having so many releases at the same time leaves me scratching my head to be honest.

  I figure Capitol owns the rights, so they license them to anyone that pays the $$; no reason to tell any potential licensees that others are releaseing the same material.
That would make for less profit

Well, let me re-think this. Maybe the SACD's will sound as good or better than the vinyl. If you can hear that nice warm analog sound on SACD, you won't need to spring for the vinyl. It's a matter of preference for dog-eared audiophiles, but there's a reason that vinyl is making a comeback in the past few years. On the other hand, hardware might be a consideration too - not all CD/Video players play SACD's, but buying one of those is cheaper than upgrading the stereo equipment to play the vinyl....

And the cool thing about the AP/Acoustic Sounds SACD's coming in 2015 is they are Hybrid-SACD's.  Playable on any CD player because of the two layers.  So even if one doesn't have access to an SACD player, they can still enjoy Kevin Gray's mastering job.  That's the selling point for me.

I can't resist that vinyl but can't afford to cut a slot in my CD player big enough for an LP. I think a fruit bowl might be the solution.

Can the collectors here speculate on the value of a unique vinyl analogue fruit bowl bearing a Kevin Gray remastered version of We Got Love? I guess we're talking hundreds of dollars, right?

Is it??  I missed that, do you have a link at all?

As per Mike-D, Mikie and your good self, I've also been a bit curious about the current(ish) reissue manouveres.

So, we "started" with a run of 2012 CD reissues by Capitol/EMI, which were in response to what "seemed" to be initially a Japan only outing.

It was later announced these titles would then be reissued on neo-duluxo vinyl and SACD by Analogue Productions, which as we know have taken a while to emerge.

Capitol/UME have subsequently reissued on vinyl/and seem to be planning to reissue on vinyl pretty much everything else in the tank - except for Wild Honey  :'( - I am unaware if Capitol/UME are planning any CD reissues of the rest.

Just guessing the splintering of the catalogue and also the Acoustic Sounds delay were caused by the UME purchase of EMI, and therefore Capitol, back in 2012.  Perhaps the deal with Analogue Productions may have been cut before the EMI buy-out (beats me, I'm just an office worker type) and since then UME have decided to reissue in house.

But as bgas speculates, it's money for jam letting someone else reissue your stuff for you. Crazy days.

Anyway, let me also add another request for a vinyl boxed edition - interesting to see if anything emerges (unlikely).

And, John, an analogue fruit bowl would only net the collectors bucks if it was etched with a picture of a grapefruit from a grapefruit tree

My bad - a symptom of my state of confusion. Though just tonight Amazon Uk has listed a vinyl "Love You" as a preorder for September 2016. That's not helped at all!


But wouldn't the etching affect playback and even harbour bacteria that could taint the fruit?

And also shows Amazon's confusion as it is the recent reissue, and when I click on the relevant page it informs me that I've already bought it. A glance at my shelf confirms that! So either I've time-travelled or Amazon is confused.

Both of the above!

 :-D. The other thing is that Capitol/UME have went to a bit of effort with the releases, as they have been done with some care, and yet there has been little or no promotion of these as far as I'm aware.

COMMENT:

Stephen, just...thanks so much for taking the time to write down that kind of info - You are welcome.

I was fascinated by your comments about groove depth and the 3db gains your lathe adjustment achieves - does this gain provide enhancements to the overall sound, or will it complement bass frequencies as opposed to high end?  The improvements Brian Ingoldsby (founder of London West Mastering and Sound Master Studios - North Hollywood, CA) and myself worked out took several years of cutting and adjusting plus the cutting of about a hundred discs to figure it all out. My final test was to assemble a selection of classical, Jazz, Rock, and Pop music selections that were 18 minutes long. This is typical length of play time for the average LP. The final results had to meet the RIAA specification for disc cutting. We were able to cut our test disc so that one of two things resulted. (1) You could keep your levels at normal RIAA standards but increase your play time by about three minutes. That is enough extra time to include another song or a longer song on each side of the disc -- and still maintain the same loudness as any other record. Or, (2) you could put just as many songs on one side of the disc but raise the level of the music by about 3dB. That may not seem like much but it represents a 50% increase in energy or a reduction in the noise level of a silent disc by 3dB without using anymore land (land is the name for the used portion of the disc). This is the kind of improvement that can make a carrier out of disc cutting. Unfortunately, the improvements were killed by a retiring Warner's disc cutting engineer who did not want to get caught up in any new technology. That said goodbye to any Beach Boy LP's issued using the matrix sound, as it required these adjustments to get it onto vinyl.  To answer your question, the improvements were overall. Increasing the levels, or decreasing the noise, made the LP sound about as quiet as a CD. If you extended the playback time, you could increase royalties by two songs if you were a rock group. I thought it was a loss to the industry in general, but I had other duties to attend and did not pursue it.  Some years later, Michael Jackson ask me to overview the LP's that were cut of History, since History used a professional ProSpatializer for some of the songs. And --  we did pull it off!   

Thought you might be interested in this ultra high end record player (perhaps the highest) - Yes there are some over-the-cliff designs out there. Look at all these tables. >>> https://www.google.com/search?q=most+expensive+turntable&biw=1280&bih=601&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=IXuVVIXVCYibNqKygegN&sqi=2&ved=0CCQQsAQ#imgdii=_

Some of them are in the $50,000 category, and a few sell for $150,000, which seems to be the top cost the market will bear.

At the other end of the scale ----  A few decades ago I bought a novel toy I've had a lot of fun with over the years. I would go to a party and ask people if they had ever seen a truck record player or a car record player. When they said no, I'd take an LP (Little Deuce Coupe) and place it on a table, not a turntable, but an eating table. Then I'd take out my truck record player and show it off to an amazed crowd of onlookers. 

Here's a demo video, (mine is a blue model) >>>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJfauJmup24

While looking for a demo on YouTube, I found out that this little toy is still being made. Here's a link to the actual device and the video therein shows more about how it works. Actually only one wheel drives the car around the record while the needle keeps the vehicle following along the groove all the way to the end of the record -- leadout grooves and all. 

The SOUNDWAGAN  for sale >>>  http://soundwagon.jp/

Back to my old Thorens TD166 in the meantime - thanks again, and best wishes for the season - A  Thanks and nothing wrong with a Thorens TD166 . . . one of the old standards in turntable designs -- still viable today.

Good Listening, ~Stephen W. Desper

Something that REALLY bugs me: The delivery of my mono Christmas LP has obviously been delayed, it was due on Wednesday. I hope it's only because of the Christmas season. But the last time I ordered from the US the stuff (Friends LP) was here one week early so I think the LP is lost. :-[ It happened before when a nice fellow bought me a Today! mono LP which never showed up. Unfortunately it is not possible to track the shipment either. :'(

just be patient. christmas at christmas will there be for you

The LPs I ordered from the US took at least 2 weeks to the UK.

OK, I've rechecked. Last time they estimated 6 weeks from shipping to arrival. This time they calculated only 2 weeks. Last time it arrived way earlier, like a week or two, so it took 4 or 5 weeks - they obviously don't know what they're talking about. So my Christmas album will probably arrive... early next year. ::)

Dear Stephen Desper,

Got my copy of the original Sunflower in the mail. It's in fantastic shape, and I'm in luck. It IS an original Artisan pressing.

And I have to say, as a very quick preliminary reaction it does indeed sound better than--and quite different to--any other release of this music I've heard before. Just as a very first, instantaneous reaction when I put in on, I heard the bassline in "Slip on Through" much more distinctly. A very different sound.

So, ah, anyone stateside side got their clammy mits on one of the mono numbers yet?

Not yet. I ordered Surfer Girl in mono but it didn't ship until yesterday.

COMMENT: 

Dear Jesse Reiswig,

Happy to hear the LP you received was an Artisan pressing.  That means that the Sunflower album you have was MASTERED with the supervision of Carl Wilson and myself.

From my reading here and from most discussions I have with fellow aficionados, most fans are only familiar with re-masters of the original mix done on CD. In other words, I know the analog Beach Boys whereas younger fans know the digital Beach Boys.  Over the years the original intention of the final sound has been modified and re-modified so that what was the original mastered sound is now far from the original. When you compare the digital renderings with the actual and real original analog sound, you might say it has “a very different sound.” To me, the “different sound” is what is on all those CD re-masterings. You will probably find that the LP is warmer and more musical in its sonic signature. The LP is the standard since it was created under Carl’s supervision. All other re-issues assume to “improve” over the LP and eliminate Carl’s artistic input because they are issued using a newer technology, which is presumed to be better. My preference is to stay with Carl’s original mastering as I am more involved with his version of Sunflower, that is, it is the sound that seems “right” to me. That’s an artistic choice, I suppose, but then would you like a re-do of the Mona Lisa done in modern acrylic paint that has more color and contrast than Leonardo de Vinci’s original version? You may if you wish, or you may even like it in black and white. There is no correct preference. However if you’re going to go with the acrylic, don’t also say it’s painted by Leonardo. Same with mastering. If the finished Beach boy production is completed by a Beach Boy, and you would rather go with a re-mastered product that replaces the original artist’s work with someone else’s art – fine, but don’t call it a Beach Boy production.

With respect to the playback of your newly acquired LP: Analog playback from an LP is more susceptible to variations in sound due to cartridge design, preamp configuration, and the interaction of the pickup arm with the groove as it traces a pathway through the mechanical wiggles. Whereas, the CD is more consistent in sound from one player to the next. As was stated by another fan, the low priced CD player can equal or improve upon the sound of any low priced average record turntable or changer, but once you spend the money, the musical superiority of the analog clearly becomes audible. I don’t know what equipment you use to play your LP’s or what amp and speakers to which you will be listening, but if of good stature, the characteristic quality that Carl and myself gave to the mastering of the LP will shine forth. I can only hope this is apparent as you listen.  ~swd

Hi Stephen,

I'm listening using a Music Hall MMF 2.2 with the standard cartridge that comes with the package (Music Hall Tracker). I have a decent 10-year old Onkyo amp and my speakers are KEF Q300 bookshelves.

I have two other vinyl pressings of Sunflower. One is an early pressing, on Reprise label, but clearly not original and it sounds VERY inferior to my "new" Artisan original.

The other is the pressing from 2009.

Question for you: I'm very curious. Did you write the copy that appears on the back of Sunflower about (I'm obviously blindly paraphrasing at the moment) the record being in true stereo, not 16 different mono channels synced up?

I'll stop bothering you, but thank you so much for all your insight and passion on this thread. It's been very enlightening.

COMMENT:

It's not a bother AND Yes I did.  When I suggested that we include such "technical notes" on a pop/rock release, I thought it would be a battle to have it included in the jacket notes, but to my pleasant surprise there was no objection from management or Warner Records. The reason I wished technical notes be added to this album was I wanted it to be known that unlike other regular releases this was more of an audiophile quality recording. I go into this more in Recording The Beach Boys - part two, which will be the subject of a study-video to be available soon. I keep saying that, but this time and with Mike Conner's help we are moving to completion.

I'll tell you this:  As a sound engineer, you can mix a live show and that is exciting, you can mix a TV broadcast and that is pressure, you can mix to tape and that is the push of the record button, but when you lower the stylus onto a virgin blank acetate disc and watch it cut those magic grooves -- that is a real thrill. There's something about seeing the sound "photographed" on the blank black surface. You can't see the re-arrangement of magnetic domains as the tape rolls by the head. You can't sense the broadcast waves as they leave the antenna tower. And you can't know the collective intimacy that each audience member savors. But you can become one with the action of the stylus as it traces its path onto that spinning black mirror, transforming it into a tangible consequence unfolding right before your eyes.     ~swd

All time best technical notes were for the Surf's Up album:   ;D

"Original recording was done on Brother Records’ cassette tape recorder at 30 i.p.s. on 2 inch-wide tape with four long lasting flashlight batteries. The following microphones (with built-in remote switch) were used. U2 Boat mike, F111 Throat model and DC456-1414. A 30-position toy-mixing console was used to transfer the original recording to my Brother 2-track recorder".

Chatter so far over at the Hoffman forums regarding these is that the album tracks on the first batch of mono releases sound fabulous but that the tracks that were also released as singles tend to sound significantly inferior to the other tracks. This would seem to track with Steve Hoffman's concern that because the first generation masters for single tracks would not actually be on the LP reels in many cases, inferior second-gen. masters might be used in preparation of these releases in the case of those single tracks.

However, sounds like the album tracks really do sound great, as lifelike as they've ever sounded, from what people are saying so far.

Actually, only one person is writing that, so far. I haven't had the chance to listen to all of it yet and my equipment may not be up to snuff compared to others, but what I've heard of Surfer Girl (mono) sounds superb, and I'm not hearing huge discrepancies between tracks at all myself.

That's great to hear, Mr. Tiger. It'll be interesting to see what people think going forward.

And you're right. When I looked back I saw it was only one poster who was talking about all the titles. If I inadvertently made it sound like this was a consensus opinion in any way already, I apologize for making it sound that way. My attempt in saying "so far" was just to represent what had already been said on the board.

As my mono Christmas album has failed to arrive I'm scared that same thing might happen if I order these. I would buy them all were they available at a store in town! I'm bugged. >:(

Do these have a hookup or USB broadcaster that I can play to my computer? 

 :lol Yep you can purchase a cable of some 350 Yards in length , however it gets a little messy after the 3rd track

I guess that means , NO; you didn't have to be so mean about it.

You bring that on yourself, Bgas.   :-D

Do you have any local record stores run by older dudes who are into indie and classic rock type stuff?  I gave my guy a call the other day about the A/P stuff and he's on it for me (him being a growing fan of the band helps too) - because he's a dealer, he gets wholesale pricing and then the shipping costs are reduced ('cos he buys a ton of other stuff).

Additionally, he has the insurance covered etc, so no problemmo if no show.

Hang in there re your christmas album - given it's the silly season, I'm not suprised to hear it's a-been delayed.

My copy of Surfer Girl in mono arrived this morning. I have to get to work so I only had time to compare the songs Surfer Girl and Catch A Wave on the new release to my original mono on Capitol. As an overall listening experience, I prefer the new AP hands down. Beautiful quiet background and there is more separation/clarity in the instruments and vocals. The only thing I noticed was the new release is a bit bass shy compared to the Capitol release. The new AP version will definitely be my new go to version from now on.

Nice one, Lee! Looking forward to any further details/observations when you've time or disposition of course  :-D

This is great to hear, Lee!

Anyone got any further updates?  I wish they were distributed here in the UK.  To get one shipped to the UK wold cost about $45 and even then I might have a customs charge on top of that!  The sellers who were doing the recent UME vinyl will hopefully do these too.

Hey Mike - I'm getting mine through an indie record store; I'll be paying about $45 Australian a pop (inc all delivery etc), which is $36 Gringo or $23 7&3 quid.  Could be worth talking to any local stores to see wat they can do.

These are Royale with Cheese editions (they freakin' better be) from an indie company without the distribution subsidies of a major (eg, UME re the Beatles mono pressings); so I think a big bill is a bit of an inevitability for us O/S shoppers.  I'll just have to drink that cheaper shiraz for the next few months  :lol

Cheers Alan, seems like a fair price to pay.  Unfortunately for me my nearest Indie store is about 25 miles away.  Which is fine but I doubt they'll order them in, althought they did get Pacific Ocean Blue 3lp back when it came out.  I think I'll give them a try.  I will need to cherry pick for now though, I've got fairly good original vinyl and Capitol yellows and Greens and From the Valts.  The packaging alone makes me want them all though!

I just purchased the whole first set of monos from Acoustic Sounds over the weekend.  10% off, free shipping, and no tax, so the first 5 cost me $135.  Can't wait to A/B them against my mint original rainbow label monos.

Lee from Charlotte, NC  (not to be confused with "lee" from Charlotte, NC)

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Well in this case there are two ducks in the pond named Lee, who live in Charlotte, who are Beach Boys fans.  Only based on his profile, I'm old enough to be "lee's" dad...

I know Lees from Charlotte, N.C. who are Beach Boys fans.

You now have TWO SONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To complicate things even further, I once knew a guy named Lees (with an "s") who was a Beach Boys fan.

But Mikie, you only know one Will Brison!   ;)

(Ironically, there was guy on the Blue Board who claimed the monicker "Will Brison" before the real Will did.)

Lee

You just gave me an idea for an article in ESQ. Has a review ever been written for that highly collectible single "Will Brison & The Shocking Shrinks - Landy You Need Me/Games Two Can Play"?

There's a review of the single by Lee and someone named Will Carlson in the Fall 1992 edition of ESQ. Lee even managed to interview Will in the following issue!

Gosh, I'd forgotten all about that.  And considering the circumstances, that means I forgot about it twice...

Lee

Yeah, but I think we need an 'updated" interview. It's 2015 now, and I'd like to get the lowdown on a couple of things that have been on my mind for years. It's well known that Lee is a close, personal friend of Will Brison. Well, Gene Landy reportedly sued Brison for $30 million bucks, claiming that he wrote the lyrics to "Landy You Need Me". And supposedly, Will was involved in an aborted publication entitled “Crap Beach Boys Anagrams” or something like that. Also........I'd like to know if it's really true that Lee was offered $4 million for his copy of the Hawthorne Hotshots bootleg. I believe that we need to get these issues out in the open after all these years.

So do I, preferably in a new thread  :P

I agree Alan.  I was the one who derailed this thread with the "Lee vs lee" thing.  I will post my thoughts on the Analogue Productions reissues when I get back to town on Friday.

Lee

Sounds good! 
Now if someone( mods?) could just freeze Mikie's account.....

Sorry guys. It was an inside joke. Maybe too far inside for anyone to grasp. Hint: Album liner notes.

So what are we comparing these new Acoustic Analog albums to? Did I hear the original monos?  Wouldn't be best to compare them against already-released mono CD's or even re-issued mono vinyl?

I was thinking the original Capitol monos.  My thought is that Analogue Productions is asking fans to shell out $29.99 per album for a limited-run audiophile product that is purported to be improved over those original Capitol rainbow pressings in terms of fidelity and consistency.  It's well known among audiophiles that Capitol's '60s pressings were not the state-of-the-art in audio fidelity -- the frequency response is often limited, the vinyl compound was not the most quiet, and so many albums were pressed from the same stampers that copies from the beginning of the pressing run can be better than copies from the end of the run.  Given the limitations of 99% of the consumer audio equipment in the '60s, there wasn't a really a need for Capitol to push the limits of frequency response and dynamic range.  It's also a fact that Warner's mono PET SOUNDS from the CATP two-fer, and the single brown cover reissue, are sonically superior in terms of frequency and dynamics to the original Capitol rainbow mono, because Warner had better cutting equipment.  Before others spend $30 a pop, I would like to offer my objective opinion on the Analogue Productions reissues.  Based on Kevin Gray's prior remastering work I have high expectations.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as vinyl is concerned, the Capitol rainbows are the only MONO vinyl editions that I can compare them to, correct?  All of the later reissues have been in stereo.  Oh yeah, I think there was a mid-'70s Capitol mono reissue of SURFIN' SAFARI (the one with a blank back cover), but any reissues of SURFIN' USA through SHUT DOWN, VOL 2 would have been in stereo.

Lee

Also, according to Steve Hoffman, these AP albums are missing the original masters what were cut from the reels for the singles. Apparently copies were re-spliced back on these and are inferior to the masters. Some at the Hoffman forum claim to hear these sonic differences. Apparently, Capitol or AP did not do their homework when assembling the albums for production. With all of the work that Alan Boyd has done, it makes me wonder how something like this could occur?

True dat.  But as I mentioned on the Hoffman board, if the most egregious transgression that AP made was to use a "first generation" album master where the tracks released as singles had been moved to Capitol's chronological "phono reels" (where all of the master tapes for singles for a particular timeframe are spliced end-to-end on one large reel), and those tracks were replaced in the album master with a first order copy, I can probably give them a pass.  I haven't been able to confirm whether AP had access to the phono reels in addition to the album masters.  But that also assumes that a fresh mix/master wasn't made for single release; in that scenario the first generation "album" master would still be on the album reel.

Lee

I assume this is correct. I think there's one additional recent mono vinyl reissue of "Surfin' Safari"--This weird thing: http://www.amazon.com/Mono-Stereo-Gatefold-180g-Vinyl/dp/B00ANDVNXC/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1420651629&sr=1-2&keywords=surfin%27+safari+mono+vinyl

Once we get to "Today," there will be many mono reissues to compare these to!

There was also the 80s Capitol Green Label (minus 2 tracks) and UK GO version (with all 10 tracks) .  These sound good.

Hey, no sweat - I'd love to hear and hear more about Will Brison having missed out on that good stuff.  Perhaps Will could slip in a bonus track on the "And Your Dreams Come True" copyright renewal release next Christmas.


I also have high expectations of these reissues - as Lee noted, Kevin Gray's track record is pretty good to hot.  And while A/P seem to have some slightly ramshackle business approaches (including the mystery of what masters have been used), the guy running the show seems to have 1 key agenda - getting great sounding music out the door, and I doubt he'll intentionally slip on that promise.

As far as the A/B thing goes, obviously the "control" sample thing will need to be the US mono's.  However, it's probably interesting to compare with what people consider the best, depending on what one has up their sleeve - eg, When Summer Days comes out (and if I buy it), I'll compare it to a vintage British pressing I have that sounds like the cat's meow.

Re Surfin' Safari, I have a twofer vinyl pressing on the Capitol purple label, from '78 as well, I think - Surfin' Safari is labelled mono vs Surfin' USA which is in stereo; whether it's a fold-down, I know not.

Did any of you guys catch the vimeo vid of Kevin Gray mastering Surfer Girl - it's been passworded since I watched it, but I'm certain when the camera focuses in on the Surfer Girl tape box, next to the Surfer Girl track the notation says something like replaced 1967, or similar.  That could be bullshit ie, me not watching properly, but it (conveniently for me) fits with the single reels notion.

Good catch Alan -- I watched the video, but I didn't catch that notation on the tape box.

Interestingly, I just found this thread elsewhere on the board:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,5727.msg92232.html#msg92232
with this post by Alan Boyd:


That post would imply just the opposite of what I described earlier -- that for singles released BEFORE their respective album, the phono reel should include the dub, and the album reel should include the master.  Interesting...

Lee

Funny, Steve Hoffman explained it just the opposite of the Alan Boyd quote. I can't verify exactly what Hoffman said, as that forum took down that whole thread a few weeks ago.

Probably because Hoffman f***ed it up; rather than admit the mistake, he took it down

I'd been wondering where that thread went to over at the Hoffman board!

You're looking in the wrong place...   
But you are correct!  For Surfer Girl it has :  Master #'s 50028 above 50357( both lined out) then  45 settings inside     followed by     Surfer Girl    ( replaced 5-4-67)
the video should be available to be seen here( it was cutting out sometmes while I watched it) :  http://vimeopro.com/brandxmedia/custom/video/112513801

I'm very much looking forward to your thoughts on these. To be honest, I'm surprised at the lack of reviews on these. Is anyone planning on getting any of the stereo reissues next week?

Gee, is your name really Lee ? Or you just trying to bask in Dempsey's glory?

Yes, that was my thread.  I was quite annoyed that they deleted it. The only thing I can figure is that something in there was deemed inappropriate...  like most of what Steve was saying.  He was damn near calling out his peers in that thread.  I don't get how he can be that insecure.  His work is great, the DCC Beach Boys titles are among the best Beach Boys discs I have, sound wise.

That forum in general can be sycophant city a lot of the time.

My name is really Lee. My last name is Griffin though, not Dempsey.

Well, I'll bet that Steve's remarks probably kept a few audiophiles from purchasing the albums. That would be a shame, especially if he is/was incorrect about the phono reel stuff. He already has a few buyers hearing phantom inferior dubs where there aren't any.

I also wondered where that thread had gone!  I was getting frustrated at all the reviews I couldn't access anymore about the releases.  I've also often wondered who posts here and there.  I have seen Lee Dempsey, Alan Smith and a few other familiar names on there.  As well as a few others who seem to like the Beach Boys as much as us over here.  I wonder if they stop by here under different names.

Was trying to find a site in Europe selling some of these release and came across this - http://snvinyl.co.uk/epages/eshop943300.sf/en_GB/?ObjectID=21132032&ViewAction=FacetedSearchProducts&SearchString=beach+boys

Anyone familiar with the site? might be only UK delivery

Seconded - info appreciated.
 
I've chanced my arm and preordered Holland there but delivery's not due for a long while. The payment system - pre-payment system - was somewhat alien to me but I was happy enight to take the punt. Any reassurance gratefully accepted!

Hoffman specifically recommended (highly) the Surfin' USA album.  But all the reviews were pulled.

He only recommended that based on the original, saying how it's a quality album.  He wasn't talking specifically about the sound quality of the new releases as he hasn't heard any of them yet.

You are correct about that. He was talking original issue. I remember one guy who bought Surfin' USA say that the title song and Shut Down sounded like lower quality on the new release. This coming just days after Hoffman warned everyone about the hits being replaced with dubs.

Had to read a couple times to see your post in the middle
  Did you get your message in the wrong place mistakenly?  ( I've done that a couple of times, not seeing the whole message, but usually catch it beofore posting)  or is this a site FU?

And so it did, last Thursday. Even though I still haven't taken down my christmas tree, I haven't been in the mood to play the LP since I received it. It couldn't be anywhere near the enjoyment it would have been could I have played it first at christmas time. >:(

Save it til next year!  Not as if it's a new release...

Not "next" year, THIS year! :)

Stop being the christmas grinch and just play that baby!

It sounds great at any time of the year!

I once had the pleasure of hearing Brian sing "Little Saint Nick" live in June or July.  They had just recorded his Christmas album so he played it.  Only Brian could get away with that!  I also remember thinking during the line "Christmas comes this time each year".  No it doesn't!  ;D

Also in January 2002 when they played Glasgow Brian and the band did "Auld Lang Syne" "in honour of the great Scottish poet, Robert Burns"!

I did accidentally put my message in the wrong spot. Sorry about that.

I did play the stereo CD last weekend, but I can't get myself to play something as precious as an LP with the original mono mixes at the wrong time! :-[

Sorry John reviews online are not good!  However, some people have had good dealings with Scott Nangle.  The thing is according to his address he stays about 10 miles from me.  Maybe I'll take a punt too as I know where he lives!  Keep us posted.

Eh well… I'll stick with it. Communications from Scott have been good so far and I'm receiving regular newsletters, so prepared to give it that punt. Used visa anyway so the purchase should be guaranteed but hopefully it won't come to that.

SpinCDs are doing the first five hybrid SACDs.

I'm sure it will be worth it.  Thanks for the heads up with SpinCds.

Woah....just googled him, so many bad reviews, definitely not ordering there now..

Fear not… I'll take one for the board :lol and report back – if it's good I'll say so; if it's not, I'll say so!

Ha, fair play, he does seem to come through eventually for most people (after numerous phone calls, emails etc). Just hate dealing with sellers like that.

Placed my first wave of orders...May 1 is a long time to wait:


1 CAPP 059 SA The Beach Boys/ Surfin' USA Hybrid Stereo SACD $ 30.00
1 CAPP 067 SA The Beach Boys/ Pet Sounds Hybrid SACD $ 30.00
1 CAPP 070 SA The Beach Boys/ Surf's Up Hybrid Stereo SACD $ 30.00
1 CAPP 071 SA The Beach Boys/ Holland Hybrid Stereo SACD $ 30.00

Okay, my 5 mono vinyl editions  FINALLY arrived today  :pirate.  I'll try to get some reviewish notes up later tonight or tomorrow (public holiday); depending if I get to give them a thorough spin.

Quick comments re the album reproductions - and I haven't got the microscope out yet - nearly all seem really, really well done. While The colours are definitely darker than original pressings, this saturation level reveals more detail (ie, more ripples on waves where there may have been only reflection, the woody on the cover of Surfin' Safari looks rather dirty/rusty) and in all but one case are crisp with a capital wow.

The exception, imo, is Surfin' Safari - while I've noted the colour is darker and a little more detailed, the back cover photos are soft and fuzzy - I don't have a vintage US pressing to compare to - however, my 1978 (I think) twofer vinyl copy, is definitely clearer; how about you guys with a original, what do you think.

Anyways, details to follow - A

Looking forward to the reviews Alan!

I have an original UK and several reissues of Surfin' Safari.  The original back cover is the darkest (difficult to make out features like eyes).  The other copies are brighter/lighter and probably better.  The Toshiba/EMI Japanese issue (70s) has a soft look to it, almost what some airbrushed photos might look like.

Cheers,

Mike.

No, the US LP copies I have of Sunflower with numbers close to or the same as you mention, specifically RS-6382 31007-A-1A & 31008-B-1A (8-70 promo copy), RS-6382 31007-A-1B & 31008-B-1A (8-70 promo copy), RS-6382 31007-A-1B, 31008-B-1B (purchased 8-21-70), and RS-6382A 31007-Re1 (purchased 8-74 & 8-78) all have the Artisan logo and sound great (and identical to each other).

The Brother/Reprise US copies that I have that don't sound as good as the Artisan pressings are RW-6382 LW1 (purchased 6-78 & 8-80).  These pressings do not sound as good as the originals, having less bass and more treble.  Also, unlike the others, the label is not glossy.  All non-promo copies of the albums were purchased new and feature the yellow Brother/Reprise label. 

Bgas, since you're a heavy duty collector, perhaps you could provide some explanation as to what the various matrix numbers may indicate, for example "31007-A-1A" as opposed to "31007-A-!B" (both side one), "Re-1", and the change from "RS-6382" to "RS-6382-A" to "RW-6382", "LW-1", etc.

Stephen, thanks so much for the explanation of the sonic differences of various mastering lathes and cutting heads.  I have a Stateside European release of Sunflower, made in Germany, with slightly accentuated midrange compared to the Artisan originals, so I'm thinking perhaps it was mastered on an Ortofon lathe.

When you say, "Carl and I had some last minute tweaks made at the time of mastering -- around fifty changes or so," what types of changes did you make?  Mostly EQ?  Some changes in level?  Compression?  Were these changes applied to the entire album, or on the fly so that they were different depending on the track?  (That last question assumes it's possible to make changes to an individual album track when mastering, you can let me know if that's possible or not.)

EDIT:  Stephen, please also see my question for you at the end of the next post.

Micha, I think the 2009 Sunflower LP sounds great, with the exception of Got to Know the Woman.  Overall, the 2009 remaster has significantly more bass than the 1970 original, which is in keeping with current recording practice, in that music released today, including remasters of older material, often has significantly more bass than was common when Sunflower was first released.  Personally, I like that change, but whether or not that's a good thing is your call based on personal preference.  If you're listening on a device with a bass control or EQ settings you can tweak things to your liking, but many devices today do not have tone controls, and accentuated bass has become so popular these days that many powered speakers and headphones are voiced to pump up the bass.  

Getting back to the 2009 LP release of Sunflower, while I said that overall the new LP has more bass than the original, that's not the case on Deirdre and Tears in the morning, which have about the same amount of bass as the original, or Slip on Through, which has less bass than the original release.  Got to Know the Woman has less treble than the original, unfortunately imparting a somewhat muffled sound, and in my opinion that track sounds significantly worse than the 1970 original.  But, as far as the whole 2009 LP is concerned, in some cases the vocals come across as slightly smoother and less strident, which is an improvement.  

So in the absence of finding a pristine original copy of Sunflower, the 2009 LP is well worth buying.  The packaging is top quality, with a copy of the original "Add Some Music" cover used for the heavy duty inner sleeve.  One more thing - the three copies I've heard of the 2009 LP all suffered from one, two, or three instances of one to two seconds of irritating vinyl non-fill distortion in one channel, caused when the vinyl cools before completely filling the stamper.  This is more of an issue with today's heavier (180 gram in the case of Sunflower) vinyl LPs compared to around 120 grams used in 1970.  The forthcoming Analog Productions reissue of Sunflower will be 200 grams, but they own their own pressing plant and do a superb manufacturing job, so I'm not expecting any non-fill distortion issues with their Sunflower reissue; their albums are usually super quiet, but also expensive at $30.

Stephen, if you're reading this, I'm curious what you think of Mark Linett and Alan Boyd's statement back around 2009 that they had found the presumably misplaced original master copy of the Sunflower tape.  I'm not sure if they were talking about the master used before making the LP master, or the LP master you and Carl made, but since the song-to-song sonic balance of the 2009 LP often doesn't match that of the original 1970 LP, what exactly do you think they found, and presumably used for the 2009 LP?

Thanks for the detailed answer, Custom Machine! The LP has more bass than even the CD has.

EQing is really a drag sometimes. The treble is so emphasized on on TSS and MIC that I actually turn my treble knob down to the lowest notch, and the bass is so strong I leave the bass knob in neutral. On earlier releases I used to turn up the bass and leave the treble in neutral.

I've been thinking that as the treble gets stronger with each release, maybe Linett's ears don't hear treble as loud anymore as they used to... :angel:

Also, the GV from the last two releases make my speakers boom/drone (not sure which is the right English word) whenever a F# is played by the bass, which the 1993 box set doesn't do, even when I turn up the bass knob to full! :o

Yeah, the compression that gets applied to a lot of CD's these days  :brow - it's getting depressingly obvious on a lot of 16 bit digital stuff, less so on High Res and rarely on good old vinyl (unless from a balls source) - I pump most stuff through a DAC these days in order to clean up the signal, but also to avoid hurting my ears.

Most audio heads would tell you to leave your treble and bass at 0 (flat) - I'm a bit of a bass pig, and set mine at 3/4's (where 0 is half way).

And Custom, I was playing a copy of the Caribou Sunflower CD today - Slip On Through starts off sounding great with a really wide soundscape and nice balance, but a soon as the chorus hits, things get murky and confused. Interesting stuff.  While you are waiting for Stephen to respond, have a poke around in his thread - I remember him addressed the rediscovered flat master specifically over there (I think), or as a response in the Alan Boyd thread.

The booming F# has to do with compression?

There should be no booming if mastered well.

Unless your amp is unwell - can of worms warning.

Played that Christmas record yet - you really should.  Every single day is Christmas Day  ;)

Only in heaven :wink Maybe I will when there's finally some snow, haven't had any in my town all winter. A little bit last Saturday, but it was all gone the next day.

OK!

Let's go Surfin' NOW!

Here's the new cover artwork for the Analogue Productions audiophile re-issue of Surfin' Safari:
(http://s29.postimg.org/aflpwjkkj/Ss_01.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/aflpwjkkj/)

Tee hee.  Okay, seriously-ish now.  My 5 mono re-issues finally arrived - as  mentioned above, I'm pretty happy although I will note the exchange rate has let me down somewhat with the Au $ clocking in at around 78 US cents, meaning each of these babes has cost me about $39 US, or 26 quid and 30 pee a pop.  Hence, I am posting this while my wife is not in the house.

Anyway, I've decided to compare the new to my late '70s twofer vinyl of Surfin' Safari/Surfin USA.  While not apples to apples (as I don't have an original US apple), the twofer vinyl represents the edition I'm most used to.

Artwork

Front covers (new left, old right):  I'm going to give it to the '78ish reissue on the basis of sharpness.  The colours are better on the new, but sharper on the older.  Could be a stylistic decision and as per my earlier post, would love some comments from those with an original (I don't have an original because the only ones that have come my way were too beat too sh*t for the $ asked, imo)
(http://s29.postimg.org/pyj5tnsv7/Ss_02.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/pyj5tnsv7/)

I note as well, the 1978 reissue is more "intricate" re the album title font and colours - nitpicky stuff.

Back covers:
Again, for me the 1978 twofer wins in terms of sharpness of image, although the A/P reissue colour balance is nicer (and new, therefore not age yellowed)

(http://s29.postimg.org/tbregdmg3/Ss_03.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/tbregdmg3/)

New: (http://s29.postimg.org/uqodrcy5f/Ss_04.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/uqodrcy5f/) Twofer: (http://s29.postimg.org/t6nn6pf4z/Ss_05.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/t6nn6pf4z/)

Between the covers:

Each album contains a gate fold flyer - it's the same flyer for each record (that I've received), and the cover has an alternate version of the Surfin' Safari album - you'll notice Dave is pointing a little higher and the rest of the guys are in slightly different positions. Also, the two little kids in the background behind Dennis have toddled off:

(http://s29.postimg.org/cgc9hdgpv/Ss_06.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/cgc9hdgpv/)

Page 2 has photos of the tape boxes for Surfer Girl, Sufin' Safari and side 1 of Sunflower:

(http://s29.postimg.org/pog8o23mr/Ss_09.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/pog8o23mr/) (http://s29.postimg.org/4nq73504j/Ss_08i.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4nq73504j/) (http://s29.postimg.org/n0m6zyl7n/Ss_010.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/n0m6zyl7n/)

Interesting here is the notation that these tapes (and lets assume the rest of the catalogue) have been transferred to 32 bit/192khz - which bodes well for a high def future.

Alan Boyd is listed as Research Consultant, and Mark Linett as Audio Consultant - it doesn't mention that Mark portrayed Chuck Britz in the upcoming Brian Wilson biopic, and also acted as technical advisor in said film.

The pressing
A/P claim to have only pressed 1,000 albums per stamper, so it's likely the disc in your hands is technically out of print.  The inner sleeve packing is generous: (http://s29.postimg.org/w74hn8qg3/Ss_011.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/w74hn8qg3/) and I imagine the label is a good approximation of the original while replete with updated song writing credits, copyright and ownership details: (http://s29.postimg.org/89w0fs6hv/Ss_012.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/89w0fs6hv/)

The sound
(http://s29.postimg.org/6xebdw92b/Ss_013.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6xebdw92b/)

Sounds fuckin' great on my rig as pictured.  No major revelations, but the bass is definitely up and balanced against the rest of the tracks. You can get a real mental image of Dennis ticking away at that high hat.

Now, on my old twofer, just after this fella walks up to Mike Love and taps him on the shoulder and says I can win your girl a prize and flexes all his muscles and knocks the bell up in the sky on County Fair, the sound kind of drops out of lowers in fidelity - this seems to have been corrected on this reissue, I'm not sure if this phenomenon is local to the twofer vinyl or appeared on the original pressings.

Surfin' Safari is potentially (IMO) going to be the most problematic album in terms of an audiophile release - there's no real studio wizardry hidden behind poor mixing or mastering, nor are there any previously unheard dazzingly amazing performances. However, the charm and innocence of this beloved album are maintained and presented beautifully on a clean and nicely executed set.

Thank you for the detailed description, Al!

Now this offensive Euro/Dollar exchange rate at the moment... >:(

Many thanks indeed Alan. Especially for the advice about posting reviews while the missus is out ;D

                                            
Thought I’d compile some descriptions/rundowns/observations of the general packaging/notation for the Analogue Productions vinyl reissues (First five mono editions for now, it will be sometime before I get the stereo editions).

The intent is to provide a nuts and bolts preview for interested purchasers or some specifics for comparative or trainspotting purposes in one spot (as a lot of this stuff is already out there).  Corrections invited.

A/P = Analogue Productions.

Shrink wrap packaging
Tears very or too easily along perforation at top of LP (So if you want to keep these sealed, don’t even handle the top edge).

Sticker 1
The Analogue Productions quality guarantee lists five compelling elements (summarised by me) - Original Master tapes, we only use ‘em and work with the best mastering cats; Quality Record Pressings, plated and pressed by the lords; Unmatched QC, meticulous test pressing evaluation (attention, bgas) and quality control; Deluxe Packaging, HQ jackets and rice paper (yum) inner sleeves; Limited Edition - Out of Print, less than 1,000 records per stamper.

Sticker 2 (below sticker one)
Quality Records Pressing logo sticker.

Cover
Height/width around 45cms x 45cms
Depth at the Spine (thickness) is approx 4 millimeters

Spine notation from top to bottom runs:
Analogue Productions catalogue number code - e.g: APP XXXM (or S for Stereo).  (Sequences for these 5 editions is from 058 onwards)
ALBUM NAME
A black dot/separator
ANALOGUE PRODUCTIONS

The cover artwork seems to have been printed separately then attached/pasted to the cardboard (I could be wrong) by folding down from the front to the back, spine first, then top and bottom tabs, with the printed cover sort of pasted onto the back. I'll have to go and rewatch the A/P vids.

Front Cover
Top Right reads: File under:  The Beach Boys . Vocal Group, Surfing Music, Car Songs (depending on which LP); the black tab/finger guide (whatever that’s called, anyone?) Then the Capitol catalogue code - e.g., T 1981

Back cover
Top right:
Capitol catalogue code
Capitol Recordings HIGH FIDELITY RECORDING block, in black curved edge border
Analogue Productions Logo  and Quality Record Pressings logo

The RIAA logo does not feature on all editions. Next to the “This monophonic microgroove….” block, AP have retained the factory print code indicator on Surfer Girl (6).

The very last line of notation from left to right reads:
Originally released in 196(X). c 2014 Capitol Records, LLC.  Manufactured by Universal Music Enterprises, a division of UMG Recordings, Inc.  2220 Colorado Avenue, Santa Monica, CA 90404.  B0019454-01.

To the far right of this block is the Universal Music Special Markets logo.

Inner packaging
Analogue Productions Acoustic Sounds 6 page fold out selected (targeted) catalogue listing and promo blurbs.

4 page fold out featuring a photo from the Surfin’ Safari front cover photo shoot. *This item is likely specific to the mono collection, and the story focus's on the earlier years*

Page 2 - Liner notes written by David Clouston and Marc Sheforgen
The Beach Boys
A reissue series to rival any other.  Finally one of the most important bands in history is presented in ultimate quality.

“These are the best sound and best looking versions…” quote by Chad Kassem, the king of A/P

A section entitled why mono telling how A/P weren’t initially interested in rereleasing the mono reasoning all of those beautiful harmonies panned across a wide sound stage, texture, nuance-arama was the way to go, oh and A/P wasn't familiar with these mono things (Man… :P) - Until some the Beach Boys band members opened A/P’s eyes to the mono mixes; with can openers I hope.

Anyway, below these sections are photos of tape boxes for Surfer Girl, Surfin’ Safari, Sunflower (side 1).  Note these tapes have been High Def archived!

page 3 - “The story”
Cliff notes - The BB’s are renowned for their distinctive unmistakable vocals, 2nd only to the Beatles re Top 40 impact. Macca has said Pepper’s was an attempt to address Pet Sounds. 3 brothers, a cousin, a friend who left for a bit, David Marks replaced Al. Brian’s undisputed genius for you know what was complemented by the talented others over the years, also Bruce joined later and they reached lofty chart heights.  It all started in ’51, Brian sang 10 year old Mike’s Old Soldier song, blah blah, a mention of Sunflower and Holland, no regurgitation of Murry’s tough love (he does get a mention), the Smile saga, or the drug related issues deterioration stories.

Production notes
Mastered by Kevin Gray at COHERENT AUDIO, most from the original master tapes, or best sources available
200g vinyl/plated by Gary Salstrom at Quality Record Pressings
Audio Production - Mark Linett
Archive and Research - Alan Boyd

Producer, Chad Kassem; Product Manager, Brent Briggs; Research Consultant, Alan Boyd; Design, James Wolf; A&R Supervision, Matt D’Amico; Audio Consultant, Mark Linett; Liner notes (as above)

Back page is an ad for the whole reissue series.

Nearly there.

LP Inner label
Capitol Rainbow style, logos and blurbs as mentioned on the front covers.
Matrix markings, from (err) left (i.e., first marking to last in a clockwork direction): label number+side (hand scribed), KMG (hand scribed), CA (hand scribed), QRP (some kind of block stamp), KEVIN GRAY (typeset/block stamp).

I've just ordered the first 5 monos.  Took a while to decide as I have original UK for a few of them in excellent condition.  I also generally prefer stereo but have the Capitol Greens from the 80s as well as the EMS 25th anniversary releases for some of these.  I bought the monos to be completist and also as I believe the 60s monos may be more 'muddy'.

Going forward (due to cost) I'm wondering which 'Chuck Britz' stereo versions to buy.  Has anyone who has purchased these compared them with the 80s pressings or original stereos? I will get the 'new' 2012 stereo versions i.e., Today, Summer Days and Smiley.  Will it be worth getting Pet Sounds (I have the excellent 1999 stereo pressing, mono brown cover, green label, EMS, From the Vaults etc)?

I would love them all but cost wise it's a long shot (maybe!).  I also imagine I will buy some of the SACDs.

Any help/reviews much appreciated.

PS John Manning, I ordered from Scott Nangle so I will let you know how I get on.

Nice going, Mike - you are in for a treat, I'll resist posting any "spoilers" in the meantime, but it's hard, man  ;D

You will have seen some of the feedback at Hoffman board, but I'm yet to see anyone do a serious A/B.  Surfin' USA got a good rap, and there's been a lot of buzz about Surfer Girl - my guess is that's mainly because of the song Surfer Girl.

Sorry I can't be of further help as I haven't taken the plunge on the stereo editions - YET - due to the $ factor as the exchange rate is not moving in my favour - and I'll be targeting the next round of mono pressings, then see what's left later this year.

I'm unlikely to get the new stereo mixes on vinyl; I'll probably look into getting these on SACD - some sunny day.

The interesting one will be Sunflower - after Custom Machine and Stephen Desper's great conversation above about the imperial delights of the original pressing, its hard to not be compelled to seek out the same.

After recently dabbling in SACDs, these are the releases that interest me most - though UK shipping will never be cheap - but CD's are considerably less than the LPs (As much as I would love them)

Testify. Yeah, they're kind of a deal comparatively/sadly - as I didn't stock up on most of the 2012 cds, I think these will be an interesting consideration.

I‘m also interested to see if AP eventually offer these tracks as high def flacs through their online site - 24 bit tracks are nice on an SACD player but it`s a task to get them onto your portable media.

I just received stereo "Surfin' USA".  I managed to get this from an ebay UK seller for less than he's selling the Capitol/UMe reissues!  This was the only one he had in stock.  I'm still waiting for my monos from Scott Nangle Audio!

The pressing is super quiet and the packaging fab.  I'll need to do more comparisons with my other versions but it seems a bit more treblely.  Still happy with it though  ;D.

Noted :lol


I'm still waiting for my S. Safari SACD from Spin - anyone else received a copy of this yet?

Clear down some debt, lads, AP SACDs (hybrids) a-hoy!:

http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&searchtext=beach%2Cboys&labelid=507&CategoryID=4&status=In%20Stock

Well the good news is I picked up four of the five monos I ordered from Scott Nangle Audio!  I hadn't heard from him since I ordered two weeks ago.  I tried to contact him yesterday to no avail.  But he phoned me today and I went to his house in the afternoon and picked them up in person.  He'll send Surfin' Safari on when he can get to it.  He gets boxes of LPs delivered delivered.  Seems like a good guy, likes to chat music and obviously is an audiophile and knows his stuff.  I read the bad reviews but it seems to me that he wouldn't intentionally scam anybody.  

John I gave you a mention and told him you had pre-ordered Holland and he seemed to recall our name.  I'm certainly pleased with the service I received.  They also worked out 10 UK quid cheaper than I would have gotten them elsewhere!  ;D

Anyone else notice they have used the wrong picture on the back cover of Surfer Girl?  So much for the best quality control! ::)

Just noticed some kind of lilac coloured sky behind the Boys on the front cover (left and right of the picture).  It's not on any of the other versions I have.

Sounds great though!  ;D

Yep! Not sure if I mentioned here or at Hoffman the photo artwork (as opposed to fonts`n`colourings) haven`t hit the mark for this kind (prestige, expensive) of release - imo.

To use the wrong pic (from the same shoot) could be considered careless and disappoining - however, perhaps it could be considered a boon (as some say) for collector types - in days to come.

Back on the photo art, I've no idea, but are the rights to photo art tiered, like music? It's almost like AP couldn't secure or afford to secure the rights to original photo art from Capitol, but they were able to secure permission to reproduce the covers using their own sources.

I don't know, just throwin' it out there in case anyone has a notion?

I read your posts regarding cover quality on here when you received your first batch and I agree with your points Alan.  I was surprised when hey mentioned in the videos they were scanning he over artwork.  Maybe as you say they couldn't secure the rights to use the originals.  Funnily enough the Surfer Girl front cover looks the most 'natural' in that in all the others I have you can tell they've been superimposed onto it.  But yeah the colours are a bit off.

Overall though I'm pleased with my purchases.

Might be battle original negs/tranies have been lost or have deteriorated. So they've taken the closest approximation available. Bit odd though if they're scanning the covers anyhoo.

Mikeddon - many thanks indeed!  Quite reassuring. Is Scott somewhere in Lanarkshire if I recall? Larkhall? I spent a handful of years in Eaglesham, New Lanark and Strathaven while working in EK… might even be able to pick up my own order this summer…

He is John, Ashgill, right next to Larkhall. My wife grew up in EK. Small world.  ;D

So on Alan's suggestion, I am joining this discussion. Which reissues are the best so far?

Surfer girl, shut down vol2, all summer long, today, summer days, pet sounds, smiley smile...sunflower/ then lil deuce coupe, wild honey, 20/20, surfs up & holland..

Wouldn't you have to buy these, or have heard them to join a discussion about them?

All I know is I take an orig mono LP over a remastered reissue.

I tend to prefer stereo but love it when a mono version sounds like stereo.  For example, Surfer Girl sounds so clear and there is almost a wide soundstage to it (as far as is possible with a mono release).  But then again that lp has always been sonically perfect IMHO.  On "Hawaii" for example I heard things I hadn't noticed before. 

The monos are also good because with the Chuck Britz original stereos the tracks are a bit further back in the mixes and the endings were clipped.

I guess I'm the only one who bought the SACDs, eh? Otherwise surely someone else would be expressing their pleasure, wouldn't they?

These discs are damn good. Whether you listen to the CD layer or venture into the real of Super Audio by flipping the switch, these discs are a very satisfying listening experience.

I’m definitely going to pick these up at some point. It’s just tough to buy a full wave of $30-per-disc titles. These probably would have gotten even more traction had they not done the mono/stereo reissues back in 2011 or 2012 or whenever that was.

But based on some reviews I’ve read, and knowing Kevin Gray’s work, these could well be the definitive masterings of these albums.

I think the later albums will get more attention, generally.  At this price (£26.99 each at Spin), I'm gonna have to be selective.  I was kinda waiting to hear all the commentary about it (thought there'd be more).  Anyway, I'll wait til the other ones come out, then decide.

I've had Surfin Safari on order at Spin for a fair while now - two stalls on the release date despite the website havin said that it ships within days. This morning I was told maybe another 7-10 days before it's in stock.  Appreciate it's an import but the first 5 mono LPs shipped from AP in the States and were at my front door within three days of ordering. Bit frustrated right now… these things are starting to show up on Amazon UK buts its hard to tell which format is actually listed!

I got Surfin' Safari Mono vinyl in today. It was the last one in the initial batch of 5 I ordered from Scott Nangle.  I will definitely be ordering more.  I don't have an SACD player and have the Pastmasters but I would still like to have the SACDs.  Scott was very helpful and true to his word.  Also cheaper than anywhere else. ;D

I was hoping for a good, clean pressing of Sunflower  since the pressing I have has a tad more surface noise and scratches than I would care for.  It's hard finding a good clean copy from what I can tell.

However, it seems that it will not live up to the original.

Edit: Spelling

No one has heard it yet.  I have heard 3 of the first 5 Hybrid SACDs from Acoustic Sounds and they should fantastic.  The best they have ever sounded in the digital medium.

I'm planning on the SACDs later in the year, as I want to ge the next clutch of mono vinyl, then Holland in the bag; I suspect these may become sought after/pricey for those who come late.

So, those of you who are with, a few punters had previously complained about the CDs sounding "trebely"/harsh - do you think this has been addressed?

Do these make you get up and shake it?

Arrrrh, now there be pirates off the coast of old blighty!  :pirate

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BEACH-BOYS-The-Surfer-Girl-remastered-180-gram-vinyl-LP-/181687928033?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a4d71c4e1

(well, they got the back photo right!)

I posted about this one before Alan and asked if anyone knew anything about t.  So many songs on 2 sides of vinyl! ;D.

The seller sold me Surfin' USA Stereo AP for 25 quid.  He's got another for sale but not any of the others.

Oh, thanks Mike! Sorry I missed that, did you get any answers (pop me the link if you've time)?

Glad to hear you've got SUSA stereo in the bag!

Here it is Alan:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15061.msg500670.html#msg500670

I didn't get any replies! Maybe not enough autotune in it or Mike Love stuff  ::)

I was tempted to buy it but would rather put my money towards more AP releases.

Cheers. ;D

"Surfer's Tule"

  :-D Brings a whole new meaning to the song!

Hey, it's hard to keep up with this stuff, but has the Holland CD been released yet? If not, do we have any sort of release date?

I was told Holland would be around May. Not long in the scheme of things…

Thanks John. The sites where it's being sold really don't tell you much of anything.

Having purchased the mono and stereo Analogue Productions BB LPs released thus far, I broke down today and finally decided to do a sonic comparison of one (and only one!) stereo track on one of the new LPs, in order to compare it to the original 1964 Capitol Rainbow label LP, the 1986 Capitol dark Green Label LP reissue, and the Capitol 1994 Rainbow Label LP reissue, (all US versions).

I decided to focus on Keep an Eye on Summer due to the irritating sibilance found on Brian's vocals on parts of this song on the original release, along with the prominent tape glitch at nine seconds in and a less prominent tape glitch at 34 seconds in, and added the 1971 Capitol Lime Green Label with purple logo reissue (album retitled Fun Fun Fun) to the comparison mix.  

Here are my impressions, concentrating only on Keep an Eye on Summer:

1964 original Capitol Rainbow Label LP - Irritating sibilance (a hissy distortion) on "s" sounds, but somewhat muted compared to some other versions, indicating high end was rolled off somewhat to make it less objectionable.  Tape glitch at 9 sec is there, but not as apparent as on some other dubs from the master tape.  Tape glitch at 34 sec is much less noticeable than the one at 9 exc.

1971 Capitol Lime Green with purple logo LP reissue - Both the bass and treble are accentuated, compared to the original LP.  The sibilance is a little more prominent, due to the pumped up high end, but it's still relatively muted, again with the high end sounding somewhat rolled off on the offending parts.  Glitches sound same as the 1964 original.  I prefer this sound compared to the original, as it sounds much fuller due to the added bass.

1986 Capitol Dark Green Label LP reissue - Sounds essentially similar to the 1971 Capitol Lime Green Label reissue, but the tape glitches are more noticeable.  Overall, the listening experience comes across as more satisfying, probably because of less surface noise than the 1971 LP and significantly less surface noise than the 1964 LP, in both cases due to wear.

1994 Capitol Rainbow Label LP reissue - The upper mids and treble have really been pumped up on this one, causing Brian's voice to sound somewhat strident and more prominent in the mix.  Even with more treble than previous versions, overall the s's are dramatically smoother than on previous versions, so this version is the best yet from a sibilance standpoint.  But, I'm not a fan of BW's voice being pumped up, EQ wise, to this extent, and overall this version is definitely not as smooth or enjoyable to listen to as the 1964 original or the 1971 and 1986 reissues.  The tape glitch at 9 sec is perhaps slightly more noticeable than previously, but virtually inaudible at 34 sec.  Thinking this version may well be from the digital master used to make the 1990 Capitol twofer CD, I gave that CD a listen, as well as the same track on Summer Love Songs from 2009.  The two CD versions sound very close to this 1994 LP, except that there is no sibilance issue on the CDs. (It should be noted that sibilance issues do not necessarily come from the original master recording, but rather can be created by the cutting head when a vinyl record is mastered.  Also, a record can be mastered without sibilance, but a phono cartridge may have issues tracking the s's, causing sibilance to be heard.)  This 1994 LP is also the only version of the song that has some slight pre-echo before it begins.  Additionally, the "c" in "can hear" suffers from a slight initial prominence, sorta like the sound you get when touching your tongue to the roof of your mouth.  Despite the vastly improved sibilance issue on the LP, and completely eradicated sibilance on the CD versions, this is easily my least favorite sounding version of the song due to the boosted upper midrange and treble on Brian's voice.

2015 Analogue Productions Capitol Rainbow LP reissue - Hands down the best sounding version by far.  Absolutely no sibilance on the "s's", although the odd sound on the "c" in "can hear" is there, as it is on the CDs and the 1994 LP.  Tape glitches same as on the above LP and the CDs.  BW's voice is smoother and not near as strident as on the 1994 LP and BB CDs, but it is brighter than on the original 1964, 1971, and 1986 LPs, causing me to conclude that on those earlier releases the high end on Brian's voice was reduced to compensate for the sibilance, and doing so also gave his voice a more mellow sound.  (And perhaps rolling off the highs somewhat was standard LP mastering practice back then.)  Overall, IMO, this new LP contains the smoothest and cleanest sounding version of KAEOS available.  And the vinyl itself is very quiet, with super low surface noise, although I have heard some clicks here and there on the BB Analogue Productions LPs, although none on the song in question, and far fewer than on most LPs.  

I should add that I'm not in the camp that feels vinyl LPs sound inherently better than CDs.  In fact, on vinyl LPs, clicks and pops, noisy pressings, pressing defects such as non-fill, and record wear, especially when using sub-standard equipment, can drive me crazy.  Back in the 70s I actually bought a device to get rid of clicks and pops, a Burwen Transient Noise Eliminator TNE-7000.  Loved using it, but some purists insisted such a device could alter the phase of a recording, and preferred listening with loud clicks and pops zinging directly at them from the speakers.  When CDs came out I was ecstatic - no irritating clicks and pops or surface noise, etc.  In very short order I got into CDs and soon got rid of most of my LPs (but not all, among the stuff I kept was almost everything I had by The Beach Boys) and replaced my old vinyl with CDs.  Loved the pristine sound and the fact that I could put a bunch of CDs in a changer and program it to skip the tracks I didn't want to hear.  

But a couple of decades later I missed the experience of listening to vinyl, and today I find it to be a more organic way of listening - enjoying the album art work, followed by gently removing the album from the cover, placing it on the turntable, often running a carbon fiber brush along the grooves, and watching the cart and stylus track the record.  So after rejoicing years ago that I was free of vinyl's limitations, I now find the hands-on experience of listening to vinyl records to be highly satisfying.  And even when the sonic differences between a CD and a pristine LP may not be that great, the psychic gratification of really being into the mode of sound reproduction you are listening to can be intoxicating, as evidenced by those who insist that hi-res recordings sound better than standard resolution CDs, even though, to my knowledge, there has never been one person capable of passing a controlled double-blind listening test where they could differentiate between a hi-res recording of music vs the same exact recording at standard CD resolution with any repeatable statistical significance.  (And, yeah, I know the arguments against double blind listening tests, like "It's too stressful, and thus invalid," "Maybe the switching box introduces some type of as yet to be identified distortion," "High-res has to sound better, because it uses more data," "But I'll lose my job as a reviewer if I claim I don't hear any difference," "What if Neil Young finds out and doesn't give me back stage passes," etc.)

Anyway, if you're into vinyl I would highly recommend the Analogue Productions Beach Boys reissue LPs.  I've thoroughly enjoyed the first 9 (5 mono and 4 stereo) so far.  They sound absolutely great to me, so, as mentioned, today I broke down and decided I had to spend way too much time going back and forth comparing a song on one of the new LPs to same song on the original vinyl LP as well as previous LP reissues and a couple of CDs.

One more thing - Just listened to the mono mix of Keep and Eye on Summer from the new Analogue Productions mono version of Shut Down Vol 2.  Sounds great!  Don't have an original mono LP to compare it to.  Tape glitch even less evident, although still there at 9 sec in, so it's obviously on the original multi-track of BW's voice.  I prefer the stereo mix to the mono of this particular track, but there is a lot of stuff from the sixties where the mono mix sounds dramatically fuller and punchier and is much more satisfying to listen to.

And, that being said, I'm also looking forward to the hybrid dual layer SACD/CDs, but will pick up the LPs first.

Finally, thanks to any and all who geeked out and read this entire post.  Hope we get some additional opinions of these new LPs posted here soon.  Haven't checked the Hoffman board in ages, so think I'll head over there next.

Thanks Custom Machine! Very well done review and you're making me want to buy them.  I hope to see more reviews and comments on here as well. Please keep us up to date.

Let me preface this by saying that I think that my enthusiasm for this reissue project has gone unnoticed, based on the lack of replies to my previous posts.  So maybe if I do this in long form it will get the right attention.

I'm what I would term a 'middle of the road' audiophile.  The things that are most important to me are that a title is mastered well, not brick walled and with the use of the earliest generation tapes.  I don't own a ton of equipment.  Literally, I have a nice laptop and a decent pair of headphones.  That's it.  I don't do vinyl because I have serious OCD and would never want to handle something that delicately and then have to store it.  I prefer just compact discs or hi-res downloads. 

As kind of a guide post for Beach Boys in the digital domain, I think the best sounding discs until 2015 were the 3 main releases on the DCC label.  Endless Summer, Spirit of America & Pet Sounds, all mastered by Steve Hoffman (more on that later).  The overall warmth and resonance found on those releases to me equated to the best experience one could have listening to the Beach Boys on CD. 

Fast forward to last year when the Acoustic Sounds catalog first came out and these were announced.  14 titles from the Beach Boys core catalog being remastered by non other than a Steve Hoffman's mentor, Kevin Gray at Cohearent Audio.  I mean, this announcement was basically like a smoke signal that "hey, the full catalog is finally going to sound 'right'".  And I say that knowing it may come off as a slight to someone like Mark Linett.  I'm quite fond of Mark's work on the Good Vibrations Box Set and The Pet Sounds Sessions.  But, I'm less of a fan of some of the more contemporary best of discs that contain stereo remixes and or partial mono remixes.  Although, I'm quite happy with The Smile Sessions and bits and pieces of Made in California.  I have an open mind, I'm not completely set in my ways with any one mastering engineer.  I think there are definitely titles that are best heard mastered by this person or that person though, that is for sure.

Which brings me back to the Analogue Productions project.  2014 unfolded with almost no news at all about these reissues and then the Winter 2014 catalog came and finally, news!  These were finally going to come out.  Of course the first five vinyl titles were released in late 2014/early 2015 but that wasn't what really made me hold my breath.  It was the release of the hybrid SACDs.  I don't have an SACD player so the main attraction for me is of course the redbook CD layer.  With the first five releases, I purchased three: Surfin' U.S.A., Surfer Girl & Shut Down Volume 2.  My reasons for not getting Surfin' Safari and Little Deuce Coupe were based on cost vs. need.  Most of the tracks from both that I would ever want to hear, with maybe a single exception, are on one of the DCC discs and probably sound roughly the same aurally. 

With the titles that I did purchase, I could not be happier.  And here's why:

- First: The presentation — I'm not really bothered by the fact that the back cover art isn't 100% like the original...it's a hybrid SACD for heaven's sake.  The SACD jewel cases are classy and unique next to the rest of my Beach Boys CD collection.
- Second: The tape research (Linett/Boyd) — Not being a chest thumping Beach Boys historian (no offense to anyone) I can't absolutely claim this to be completely factual.   However, it sounds to me like all of the right mixes were chosen and I have to figure that if anyone would know it would be these two.  I do know that it's so nice to finally have unfutzed with true mono mixes.  One of the main selling points of the collection to me is original mono mixes.
- Third: The sound (Kevin Gray) — Descriptions such as "warm" or whatever are relative to each listener.  Any listen can affix whatever adjective they please to the sound of any given recording.  But to me, as a guy that has what I would consider a very nice laptop and a decent pair of headphones, these tracks on the three titles I mentioned above sound completely uncompressed, "warm", and "pure".  Looking at the wave files (a practice I chuckle at, even while doing it); it's clear that practically no compression was added to these tracks. They look like they sound, "perfect".

So all of that said, I posted my thoughts on the Hoffman forum about these titles and apparently someone took my effusive praise of these titles as a slight towards the host of that site and the post was deleted.  If you do a search there, you'll find the main thread discussing the SACDs (thread started by yours truly) you'll note that I mention early in that thread that one of the things I made a point of doing is comparing "like for like" tracks.  So, a stereo mix of "Catch a Wave" from Endless Summer DCC, compared to stereo mix of the same song on Surfer Girl AP.  They sound virtually identical.  I later fleshed out that thought basically explaining that I felt like these discs, the Analogue Productions discs, were the essential releases of these titles on cd.  The best they have ever sounded.  And basically that the perfect companion piece to the DCC releases.  Well, someone felt like that follow up posting was somehow "poking 'the host' in the eye".  I guess insults truly can be in the eye of the beholder.  What I felt was a true and deep compliment about my adoration of both the DCC releases and the AP releases was taken another way by some or multiple people.  Go figure.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At the end of the day, are these worth $30 bucks a pop?  That's of course a personal decision.  If having "Denny's Drums" in the best possible sound isn't right up your alley then maybe these should be a "pass".  However, if you want to have the core catalog of albums in perhaps the best sound you can buy short of breaking into the Capitol vaults and playing them back yourself...  look no further.  And again I'll say that if you are an audiophile and perhaps already have the Hoffman mastered DCC discs, you'll know what you are getting into with these.  They are the perfect companion to those releases.  But, I digress.

Can't wait for the next batch!

Many thanks JCM and Custom Machine for adding to the endorsements of these releases and making me even more sure that this is what I want to spend my daughter's pocket money on this year.

Thank you Custom Machine and JCM for these in-depth analyses. JCM, sounds like your experience at the Hoffman boards was frustrating. I guess that can be a very strange place. But then, so can this place!

Thank you Custom Machine and JCM.

JCM I didn't see your original review on the Hoffman board but it's a shame someone deleted it.  Just like the whole original AP vnyl thread which was deleted.

Custom, thanks so much for the indepth review including the effort you put into A/B/C/D/E'ing, you are a more patient man than I - and a great idea to really drill down on one song, nice approach.

Interesting observations re the quality of the '86 dark green reissue, as these pressings seem to be held in high regard - and given the more recent vintage pressing, less likely to be completely beat to hell (as per a '60s pressing).  Also interesting to hear the '94 LP has some pre-echo; I suspect a quality control issue allowing elapsed time twixt the lacquer being cut to plated to exceed 16 or so hours (as per Stephen Desper a few pages back).

I also recall the '90 twofers were No-Noised, perhaps some influence, then, on the vinyl pressing; to what extent, I cannot say.

Definitely geeked-out - I'm having some tech issues with the Thorens at the moment, and until I can get a chap to take a look at it, the vinyl playing has slowed down a little.  In the short term only of course.

Btw, what's kind of rig and cart are you using? - thanks again - A

JCM - too bad this board doesn't have a "like" function.  I think you've made a consistently great contribution to this topic - I don't always, or rarely, have a lot to add to your observations/info.

And yeah, Hoff board - I also hang around there a little, mainly for info - and I must say the deletions/edits/strange sh*t in relation to these reissues is kinda baffling.  I had a few of my posts ditched, specifically those linking to posts here - go figure.

Anyway, thanks for the news about the sound, and your particular focus on the redbook layer, which is going to have the most appeal to a many here - ultimately, we hope the good stuff is in the mastering - which should shine through in either format - and I'm delighted to hear that A/P with Kevin Gray's able assistance have delivered.

As mentioned in my response to Custom Machine, my record player needs some TLC, which may or may not mean I'll move on these SACDs earlier than anticipated.

Look, I still think A/P could have done a better job on the artwork - and I think it's important to keep consistent approach across all elements.  And why not provide some info re the provenance of the sources; I don't doubt A/P's intent to provide the best versions they can, so why not list off where they could and indicate explicitly where they had to use an alternative.

That aside, sounds like I'm in for a treat, when I get my sh*t together - and definitely looking forward to your thoughts about that next batch.

LIKE!

Alan, as a Thorens owner you may be disappointed to hear that I used a direct drive turntable from the late seventies, a Technics SL-1650.  (In fact I like it so much I bought second one about a year later, used in another part of the house.)  I first got into stereo systems in the era of Garrards and Duals in the sixties and seventies, so when I bought the 1650 I wanted to get a turntable that was fully automatic, as I’m not into jumping up pick up the tonearm at the end of the record, and also like to simply flick a switch and walk away as the record starts and the tonearm descends.  I also wanted a quick-start high torque motor for back cueing when I made recordings.  (These days back cueing is no long a requirement as I now digitize my recordings from vinyl using Sony Sound Forge Mac.)  Many audiophiles will gasp at the thought, but the 1650 can function as a changer as well.  I typically use it in the fully automatic single disc mode, but I'll switch to the changer mode for 45 singles and sometimes albums, as it drops records gently and flawlessly with only the labels touching (as well as the outer lip in the case of 12 inch discs).

What model Thorens are you using and what cart?  Thorens has made some incredibly great looking tables over the years, not to mention their superb craftsmanship and high audio quality, and I’ve considered picking up one with a walnut base some day to add to the mix, but due to the price and the numerous computer and electronics devices I’m generally lusting over, so far that hasn’t happened, not to mention Mrs. Custom Machine wondering why I say I need more stuff when I’ve got separate stereo or surround sound AV systems located throughout the house.  And Mrs. Custom Machine probably has a valid point, since most of those systems are inner-connected with a distribution amp (as well as Apple Air Play), so a turntable isn’t necessarily needed in each room, and adding another one would give me my 10th turntable in the house, the others being found in three jukeboxes, a Garrard which is used exclusively for checking 78 rpm records for two of the jukeboxes, a Garrard in storage, and two school record players along with some kiddie records (plus some Beach Boys stuff) to get the young grandkids into playing vinyl when they come over.  (Yes, I am a senior member of this board!)

I used a Pickering 625 DJ for the comparisons.  It is a DJ cart, since it features a cantilever that is a little more robust than many others, but I enjoy its mellow and nicely balanced sound so much that I have 2 in my current line-up of available carts mounted in Technics headshells, (and since it’s no longer manufactured, 4 in unopened containers for future use).  Other carts I currently have mounted on Technics headshells that I considered for the listening comparison include a Pickering XSV-3000 with stereohedron stylus, a Shure M-111HE with hyperelliptical stylus, and a recently installed NOS Shure M-94E.  Nothing exotic or high end, and since all are in Technics headshells they can be easily and quickly changed out.  In deciding what cart to use, since neither the stereohedron nor the hyperelliptical styli were available when Shut Down Vol. 2 was released I decided to use a cart and stylus that would have been more typical at the time the album was released, hence the decision to go with the 625 DJ.

The receiver was a Denon AVR-2800 driving Sennheiser HD-580 phones.

Sorry to go into so much detail in answering your question, but I love talking about audio equipment, plus had to offer an explanation for those thinking (and are probably still thinking), “Why does this guy have systems all over his house when he could have gone with one or two systems with more exotic equipment?”

Like!

:lol Me too!

CustomMachine: Alan, as a Thorens owner you may be disappointed to hear that I used a direct drive turntable from the late seventies, a Technics SL-1650.  when I bought the 1650 I wanted to get a turntable that was fully automatic, as I’m not into jumping up pick up the tonearm at the end of the record, and also like to simply flick a switch and walk away as the record starts and the tonearm descends. 

Al: Custom, definitely not disappointed to hear this.  I am certainly no belt-drive snob.  In fact, I've been thinking of picking up Pioneers PLX-1000 - http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/DJ/Turntable/PLX-1000 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/DJ/Turntable/PLX-1000) - and moth-balling the Thorensi (yes, pural, as you will read later) until I have the cash and time to invest in them further.  That said, I'm still to work out the financial choreography involved in getting a new table (turntable vs barnyard gate, fence, gutters, backsteps waiting some repair)

Technics are fantastic units, with great sound, you have a real keeper!

CM: What model Thorens are you using and what cart?
My current Thorens is a TD 166 (first version not a mark 2).  This model was basically a reissue of the 165, noted as the little brother of the TD 160.

Currently in near factory original condition, although the dust cover needs replacing due to severe abuse by the original owner; and I've 'ucking with it a little bit.  Cart wise, it came with a Grace F-9 Gold cartridge, a sort after MM Japanese cart from the '70s, although the original cantiliever was bent - I secured a custom original via Sound Smith in New Jersey, USA, for not much more than the price of an Ortofon Blue.

The Thorens 16X models are a bit of a bastard re VTA, so I recently added some aluminium shims - but I don't know: I think it's ruined the ride a bit, hence time to call in a guy to sort out the set-up - depending on the quote, I may temporarily go the Technics.

I have also used above mentioned Ortofon Blue - the ortofon is definitely brighter, but I prefer the Grace combo: having said that, Sound-Smith do offer higher end styli that may change the game.

I have recently been "gifted" a TD 160 that has been modded with a Grace-707 tone arm (which will be a perfect match for the Grace cart), although I need to re-solder the cart connections.  The 160 has also been modded with a Bride of Zen pre-amp, as the guy I got it from didn't have an amp with a sound stage, so the integrated pre-amp provides the boost required to use standard line level inputs. 

The 160 comes with a customer plinth, but is damaged - my brother-in-law is a cabinet maker and general fiddler, so I've kicked off discussion about how he's going to help me out with a bitchin' plinth  ;D  The mods mentioned above, while delivering the sonic goods weren't done with asthetics in mind, so I'll be slowly looking to bring things up to the quality of stuff that Dave from Vinyl Nirvana brings to the table.  Having said that, if you can get a hold of a TD 160 in reasonable nick at a yard sale or via word of mouth, all you have to do is top up the bearing oil, get a new belt and stick on a new cart (bottom mounted).

Prior to the 166, I was using a Denon DP 300f - belt driven but full auto; I went full auto as the wife and 13 year old daughter like to play vinyl as well, but find the Thorens a bit daunting, including the requirement to hover and ensure the tone arm is manually raised at the end of side.  However, the Denon sounded like total sh*t (heavy mids with no roll off), despite the good reviews they seem to garner.  Baffling.

I currently pump the 166 through Arcam FMJ A18 integrated amp, matched with a set of Paradigm Atom monitor (v6) book shelfs only at the moment.  For SACD and CD, I use a Pioneer DVD Blu Ray Player (BDP-150) via a Cambridge Audio DAC magic (on rolling loan from a generous friend).  A humble set-up, but I'm happy for the results it affords for relatively little expenditure.

CM: I used a Pickering 625 DJ for the comparisons.  In deciding what cart to use, since neither the stereohedron nor the hyperelliptical styli were available when Shut Down Vol. 2 was released I decided to use a cart and stylus that would have been more typical at the time the album was released, hence the decision to go with the 625 DJ.

Al: Brilliant stuff  :bow, what a great approach, so thorough! Michael Fremer has posted his thoughts on analogplanet, which I think are pretty cool - however, I think you've really nailed and bested his approach despite his ludicrously priced play back system, purely given you've put a lot of thought into the playback media, rather than just lavishing the playback medium (not to mention your targeted passion for the this music)

CM: had to offer an explanation for those thinking (and are probably still thinking), “Why does this guy have systems all over his house when he could have gone with one or two systems with more exotic equipment?”

Al: There is never any need to explain  :)  Does Mrs CustomMachine have any relatives from Vladivostok, Ireland or South Africa?  I'm getting the feeling she may be related to someone I hang-out with  :lol

CM has a custom record (machine) ;D

;D stereophonic speaker set with vibrasonic sound

Have you bought any of the reissues yet (just asking, not orderin' ya to get your wallet out)?

You’ve assembled a very nice system, Alan!  Especially your classic 70’s era Thorens TD-160 and 166.  Didn’t realize there was a potential VTA issue with those Thorens. Have you considered plastic shims? You’re definitely getting into some cool mods on the 166 with a Grace tone arm and custom plinth.

Bummer that your Denon DP 300f “sounded like total sh*t (heavy mids with no roll off).” Speaking of Denon's, purely from a visual standpoint I’ve always admired the looks of the direct drive fully automatic walnut base Denon’s, like the 37F and 45F.

That Pioneer PLX-1000 is a very sexy looking implementation of the Technics 1200.  I’m assuming you saw Herb Reichert’s recent Stereophile review, raving about the table, as well as Steve Gutenberg’s enthusiastic C|Net review of a few months back.  It’s rather surprising, and I think totally cool, that a Japanese branded (but Chinese made) direct drive table has received such high accolades from Stereophile. It’ll be interesting to see how the Onkyo - Pioneer home audio merger plays out, with Onkyo essentially buying out Pioneer’s home audio division.

Next up I’ve gotta figure out how to procure “a stereophonic speaker set with vibrasonic sound”! I’d always assumed that “vibrasonic sound” was a generic term for a car stereo reverb system, perhaps even a term that Mike Love made up for the song, but I just did a web search on “vibrasonic sound” and was surprised to discover that it was an actual brand name.

Thanks for the heads up that Michael Fremer has reviewed the first five AP BB reissues on Analog Planet.  I’ve gotta check that out soon, but in addition what I’d really like to do is pay a visit to his man cave and give a listen to his massive $200K Wilson Audio Alexandria XLF speakers, preferably playing some BB vinyl.

Stereo or mono (or both) for which ones?

The first four I'd say mono even though the stereo versions aren't necessarily bad.

SDV2 I think mono but "In the Parking Lot" is amazing in stereo. The rest sound better in mono except for "This Car of Mine."

Today mono?

Summer Days mono?

Party sound kick ass in stereo I think. The bass sounds so powerful and emotive and the space to breath helps.

Pet Sounds sounds best in stereo to me but I'd love to hear a good mono pressing. This album is majestic in stereo and I love "You Still..." in stereo with Brian's single tracked lead vocal versus the double tracked on the mono one.

I've passed on the first four but I dread to think what this next batch is going to cost me. If the reviews are solid I could see myself going for All Summer Long, Today and SDSN in mono, Party and Smiley in stereo and, if it's good, Pet Sounds in both. Maybe Holland too.

Does anyone know when the next lot are due?

The next batch should be out May 1st.

Thanks for mentioning All Summer. I think that sounds best in mono.

I'm going to shell out for the vinyl to have a nice complete set of their work.  I listen to their music all the time so having it in that format just makes sense to me.

I took the dive and ordered the first 5 SACDs. I haven't yet got an SACD player, but at this time that's not the worry, hgiven they're hybrids. Plus the 10% coupon was a nice addition

Ten per cent coupon?????????

Yeah, did we miss something?

(http://i61.tinypic.com/rbzm91.png)

Thanks Custom!!!!

Go nuts, guys, you have until either next May, or today, depending on how you read the expiry date!

Yeah, that blaring on the homepage was quite subtle  ::)

Also, super fast service - it's already been shipped and I have my tracking number!

Very grateful… to be honest I never visit the homepage - I have bookmarked the search page with "beach boys" pre-keyed to save time - but not, apparently, money!

My thanks.

And yes, the service is swift - ordered he first five mono LPs a few weeks ago and they crossed the pond within three days. The import duty was a blow though :/

Usually ending your name with "& family" grants you greater import allowance - up to 4x the amount. We'll see how it works here.

 Must confess I 've never been dinged, here in the states,  for import duty on packages from anywhere. Is there a base amount  that they use for shipping your way?
and how much wre the charges on the 5 LPs?

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

Remember our VAT is 20% anyway, and then there's a base charge from each company - £8 Royal Mail, £16 (I think) on Parcel Force on top of the VAT.

Remember folks Scott Nangle Audio for UK purchases.  John, I received my stereo vinyl "Surfer Girl" lp.  I received it 5 days after I ordered it, including the 2 days for delivery and 2 days were the weekend!  As you know I also bought the first 5 monos without any problems.  Some bad reviews online but I've had good service from him.

Freddie, how much is the shipping charge for these SACDs to the UK?

Broke down and purchased the other two titles that I didn't get from the first batch of the hybrid-SACDs (SURFIN' SAFARI and LITTLE DEUCE COUPE).  Didn't really need them or anything but I hated not having the whole set.

I assume the next batch of vinyls will be out in May?  Which means we could maybe expect the next corresponding batch of hybrid-SACDs in June-ish? 

At the current rate, it would seem Acoustic Sounds is going to stretch this out over the entire calendar year.  Which is okay I suppose given the price tag.  And I'm only listening to the Redbook CD layer, the Kevin Gray mastering is the absolute selling point to me — and absolutely does not disappoint.

The total price I paid for the 5 SACDs with discount and postage was £112