The Smiley Smile Message Board

Mainly of the 1962-1969 albums.
With new bonus tracks like the old 2fers. The current selection of albums are all either from 2012 or 2015, and the only one with any extra material is Holland on iTunes, which has We Got Love tacked on the end. Also, since the last round of remasters, new stereo mixes of several songs have been made available.
Shut Down Volume 2 is particularly lacking. The Keep An Eye On Summer set really should have came with a full version of SDV2 with the new stereo mixes of several songs.
Also, currently the only way to get the 2017 stereo Wild Honey is through the 1967 set. It should be released as an individual album.
And as I’ve mentioned before on previous boards, Friends and 20/20 deserved complete new mixes back in 2018. The stereo backing tracks and a cappella on the 2018 copyright extensions prove that this is possible.
As for the 70s albums, we might be getting a Sunflower / Surfs up set soon. Hopefully CATP and Holland too, but I’m actually happy with Holland.
My question is, is any of this possible? Maybe for a 60 year anniversary or something?
 

If I'm not mistaken, it's because the tapes are simply missing. What little we do have came from a tape a fan found, if I remember the story correctly. I heard that after a session Brian would just toss the tapes to anybody - after all, why keep the work once they already have it finalized?


It IS available as an individual album -- if you don't mind vinyl. (It sounds really nice, btw.)

Not true, he did not just give the tapes to anyone.

The tapes did go missing though, and it seems unlikely that any record company could be persuaded to spend money on rereleasing an album just for a small handful of stereo remixes to be intermingled in with the mono tracks.

We need them to focus on the 70s and 80s. The 60s have been reissued and reissued again, and the vast majority of the interesting outtakes from the 60s have been released. There are dribs and drabs we haven't seen, and surely something somewhere previously unknown is out there somewhere. But we've seen the 60s albums reissued in numerous permutations, and the copyright extension sets have mined a ton of outtake material from those albums.

If the old 60s two-fers with bonus tracks, and/or the 2012 stereo remixes, are now out of print, I'm all for putting them back in print. But beyond that, I don't think the focus for archival projects should be on 60s material.

There are TONS of totally unheard songs from the 70s and 80s (and tons of live material). That is 100% where the focus should be.

My problem is mainly the 2fer extras.
The only way to get them is to buy an old copy.
But yes, we do need new 70s material.
New mixes of Surfs Up and CATP should be a priority.
As for the 80s stuff, I think you are out of luck

We're still missing a lot of session work from early '65.  The copyright release for 2015 focussed solely on Party!, unfortunately.

And some of this early '65 material hasn't been booted at all...I'm looking at tracking sessions/backing tracks for things like "Sherry, She Needs Me", "Summer Means New Love", any vocal recording sessions from the 8-track Columbia tapes (along with vocal only versions of songs like "Let Him Run Wild" or "Salt Lake City").  It's really a shame the Keep An Eye On Summer set didn't dip into 1965.

I'd really like to hear any Sherry/Sandy sessions, but I totally agree about needing to focus on 70's and 80's material. The "Why?" outtake on MIC totally blew me away. I can't help but to wonder how many recordings like that are still out there waiting to be discovered.

Yes, there is certainly plenty of bulk session material from the 60s that hasn't been officially released. And I'm all for BRI/Capitol putting it *all* out, in bulk.

But until that sort of huge tape dump happens, we get these sort of curated sets of material, and I don't think raw '65 session tapes with 27 aborted backing track takes are a main priority. Sure, there are bits of 60s material that haven't been officially released (incomplete "Sandy" bits, the alternate lyrics for "Please Let Me Wonder", etc.), but the GAME CHANGING material, the area where the BBs have a cache of unreleased and *high quality* material that *no other band* has, that's the 70s material (and to a lesser degree 80s).

Now's the time to unveil *completely unheard* songs, not to just give us 17 false starts for "Summer Means New Love" or remixes of albums that, while they would certainly be interesting to hear, are not needed for albums that sound fine like "So Tough" or "Holland."

The band members are nearing 80 years old. The *newer* generation of fans that got into "Smile" in the 90s is now headed towards retirement age. Now's not the time to reissue "All Summer Long" again. Now's the time to unveil Dennis Wilson tracks we've never heard, to unveil the unknown genius work Brian did in the middle era of the band, and so on.

I think there are DISCS worth of material as interesting and more interesting than "Why." Just the stuff that barely circulates and/or that we know about is jaw-dropping. Imagine what else we haven't heard at all or don't even know about.

While I'm all for putting the entire catalog in order and keeping all previously issued bonus tracks in print, I think at this stage they should and in fact need to give the 60s albums a rest.

How many dedicated fans don't have those two-fer bonus tracks? For those that are missing them, used copies of the two-fers CDs aren't that hard to find, and I would imagine on YouTube and elsewhere those tracks are often able to be found as well.

I don't think remixes of 70s albums should be a priority. Again, I'm sure remixes would sound interesting.

But there are discs worth of unreleased material we've never heard at all in those vaults. That needs to be prioritized above all else. If that's all woven into larger packages that also showcase remixes, I'm fine with that. "Sunflower" is by far the album that I think would be most interesting to hear remixed.

But yeah, I'd rather get KTSA outtakes than a remix of "Sail on Sailor", which doesn't *need* a remix.

I really hope this new box set doesn't devote two entire discs to remastered versions of Sunflower/SU, because we've all heard those albums before and don't need them again. I'd rather they use that space for stuff we don't have, or maybe never knew to exist at all. The only new versions of those two albums I'd want as part of the new set are the matrix masters from Stephen Desper.

I don't think we should lay the 60s to rest because, as I said, the copyright releases did not address much of what was recorded in early 1965. This is prime BB, with Pet Sounds coming right around the corner.

I also would love another Friends release, to supplement what we got last year.

No need to limit to one era, surely?

I'd love that or if they released some discrete Quadrophonic DVD-Audio or Blu-Ray mixes. I read they actually had a surround mix planned for Surf's Up, anyone know what happened to that?

You know what we need?

A new compilation album that contains even more takes and mixes of "We're Together Again" and "Can't Wait Too Long."

And I think we need one more occurrence of "'Good Vibrations,' take 1." "We're rolling!"

I can't quite tell 18th you're being sarcastic or not, but CWTL is kind of my all time favorite Brian/Beach Boys productions, so I'm happy to get any and all other material related to it.  ;D

Agreed.
My favorite version is the SS/WH 2fer version. I’m just upset that that 2fers is the only way to get it at the moment

Do you own the two-fer CD? Are you able to buy a used copy?

It looks like it's still super easy to track down a pretty cheap used copy of either the 1990 or 2001 version of the SS/WH two-fer.

Pretty sure it's sarcastic, and pretty justifiably so. We've had variants of "Can't Wait Too Long" released on, at least:

1990 Two-Fer CD (and 2001 two-fer reissue)
1993 "Good Vibrations" boxed set
2001 Hawthorne, CA set
2013 "Made in California" set
2017 "Sunshine Tomorrow" set
2017 "Sunshine Tomorrow 2" set

In the near term, yes, it may be that we would need to limit what is lobbied for. They don’t appear right now to be willing to do a big dump of archival recordings, or some sort of online hub with raw session tapes. It appears the mode is curated collections, either digitally and/or via physical releases. And it’s usually one group of releases per year.

So yes, I think it’s a thousand times more important to get the dozens and dozens of *totally unheard and unreleased songs* from the 70s and 80s than it is to get raw session tapes from early 1965. Again, I’m all for *everything* being released, but knowing what I know about their entire catalog (and knowing the potential of what’s there that I *don’t* know about), in 2020 I’m not sitting here wondering when we’ll get the raw session tape for “Summer Means New Love.” I’m wondering about the dozens of unheard Dennis compositions. Wondering about the countless full-on compositions/recordings/sessions featuring stuff we’ve never heard a note of.

Setting aside the “Sea of Tunes” sets, we’ve had a pretty big hunk of 60s outtakes and sessions released. Each year even got “Copyright Extension” releases with more material. There is now no longer a huge amount of *totally unheard* songs from the 60s, or *vastly different* alternates.

It’s as if like five unheard early 70s Beatles albums were sitting there waiting to be heard, but instead we lobbied for Takes 14 through 23 of  “Thank You Girl” to be released.

Let’s have it all, but let’s prioritize wholesale unheard material, and *vastly* different alternates. Not only is that something much more interesting and new for fans, it’s also something that contributes a great deal more to continuing to correct the narrative about the band’s history to the masses. If/when we get this 1970/71 box, the music press is going to give it a lot more attention than a releases of raw sessions from early 1965. It’s going to be about “look at this, like multiple albums worth of jaw-dropping material that was just left on the cutting room floor!”

And *all* of the band members stand to benefit from releasing the 70s (and 80s) material. Mike included. They all did stuff that should be out there and acknowledged, and enjoyed.

The rumor was that a "Surf's Up" DVD-Audio was prepped, and it was going to include "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again". I'd imagine it was canceled because the DVD-A format was barely a thing from the outset, probably even less so than SACD.         

And even then I'd rather see space taken with dedicated isolation mixes (vocals only, backing tracks, etc.).

People can barely be bothered anymore to just sit down and listen to music as a dedicated activity, so the number of people set up for and desiring to listen to an old quad mix (or a 5.1 or 7.1 Atmos or whatever) soundtrack are relatively few in number.

Just give me a s**t-ton of outtakes in 16/44.1 redbook audio CD format, and that's just fine.

Look, just because I mentioned that song as one of the session tapes that hasn't been booted, doesn't mean it's all I want.  And nobody said anything about "raw session tape" (no archival release has had anything close to a "raw" session tape, they've all been digested).

I find cherry picking that song out of my post as some sort of catch-all argument against all '65 era or earlier outtakes being released to be super disingenuous.  The unreleased track from that era that I want to hear the most is "Sherry, She Needs Me" a track cut with the Wrecking Crew in the year leading up to Pet Sounds that has only been available with Brian's '76 vocal over it.  Try convincing people here that a track like that isn't desirable or worth listening to.

I think disingenuous is a strong word to use here.

I'm not suggesting *anything* from the archives isn't worth listening to. I've been listening to BB outtakes since the 80s. I've dug into the most deepcut, obscure stuff imaginable, from every era.

My post didn't even quote your previous post. To be honest, I don't think I even had it my mind that you had specifically mentioned "Summer Means New Love." I was reaching for a random released song from that era. I could have named any number of other songs.

If you read my post, I'm not arguing against "all '65 era or earlier outtakes being released." I'm saying it's not a priority compared to the DECADES of largely unexplored archives.

"Sherry She Needs Me" is great; if the backing track is released somewhere, great!

What I'm saying is that I simply disagree with lobbying for a small subset of session outtakes from a particular year, from an era that is relatively pretty well-explored via a variety of releases, while hours and hours of dozens and dozens of totally-unheard *songs* are sitting there waiting to be released.

Other than a large opening of the floodgates of the archives via some sort of online interface, I can't fathom how BRI and Capitol are going to channel some flotsam and jetsam from early 1965 into a release. Obviously, nothing is stopping them from releasing a CDs worth of "More 1965 Sessions!", and if they do, I'll be first in line to hear it. I'm just surprised there is a fixation on 1965 material (or 60s material in general), specifically songs where we're talking about *variants* of stuff already out there, in light of the vast 70s and 80s (and even 90s!) archives sitting there collecting dust.

Reminds me of around 2012 or 2013 when someone here was fixated on BRI doing *another* "Smile" set to catch the random stuff the 2011 set missed. Again, I'll listen to all of it. But as a fan and scholar, I don't think more 60s material at this stage is a top priority, and lobbying for it is also ignoring the realities of what BRI and Capitol might be working on now and what seems feasible for future release.

I still don’t get why Dennis songs are not on Surfs Up.
I’ve heard that they didn’t want to make it an entire Wilson brothers project, but thats ridiculous. The actual album is only about half Wilson brothers. Another argument I’ve heard is that there was just not enough time on an album. But I call BS on this too. Surfs Up is 33 minutes. Thats on the shorter side for 1971.
They could have fit 12-14 tracks and no one would be complaining

There are some other folks here more well-versed in the band politics at play when the SU album came out, and how Dennis's songs were nixed. I'm not sure the full story is even known.

One common story over the years has been that Dennis pulled his own songs, out of some sort of protest. Who or what he was protesting hasn't always seemed very clear, but it would be some sort of internal band politics issue.

There are also some old threads that shed some light on this.

Speak for your self. Sunflower is fine, but Surfs Up needs a major remix. Especially Long Promised Road, Feel Flows, Lookin' At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song), and A Day In the Life of a Tree. The current mixes suck

I’ve also heard that he pulled them for a solo album. It’s well known that he was working on a solo album for 1971-72 but still, I think he could have at least one song for SU

I could care less about Vocal and track only mixes for SF or SU. Now if your talking about Love You or Adult/Child, I’m all on bored
Also, strange question, but do you think that the Brian and Dennis 1982 sessions will ever be officially released? I highly doubt it, but I would buy that in a heartbeat. Also, any Carl or Dennis songs from 1978-1983.

I think hearing the vocals-only mix of "This Whole World" on MIC was pretty important, and hearing the backing track and all that buried stuff in there may be even more important. I don't know that those albums need full front-to-back vocals-only or backing track-only treatments. But a few specific tracks are pretty integral.

As for the Brian/Dennis sessions, if we're talking the home recordings (Hamburger/Cocaine Tapes), then yeah, there's no way that full tape would ever be released. It's unlikely anything would ever be used, though I suppose it's not impossible they could pluck out an edited, cleaned-up couple of minutes for "Oh Lord" or something as a part of a larger concept set.

If we're talking studio sessions, I'm not sure what else is specifically Brian/Dennis besides "Stevie" from the early 80s. Certainly "Stevie" seems up to "releasable" quality in an archival set.

The main roadblock is finding a context for 80s tracks. They're nowhere near copyright extension for 80s stuff, so it would have to be an expansion/fast-tracking of what they're doing now, and/or they could work some of the stuff into some sort of general "Bedroom Tapes" sort of set (where the title would be a *very loose* catch-all for Brian stuff).

No offense to anyone involved, but I agree that a new mix of Surf's Up is welcome.  The album always sounded odd to me- echoey like it was coming from the bottom of a swimming pool or through a glass of water.

I agree. Especially since most of the BBs 80s material isn’t exactly well respected.
Maybe if we ever get a SC / SIP release, they could include some other 80/90s stuff

I'm kind of surprised that "Stevie" from the Brian and Dennis sessions hasn't been released yet. It seems to be well liked from pretty much everybody in the fan base.

It would certainly be cool to hear some fresh remixes of "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up", especially the former. I'd love to hear some dry, but still warm remixes of stuff like "All I Wanna Do" as an alternate way to hear the stuff.

Those multis sound so clean, so much like they were recorded yesterday, that it would be great, as a new alternative way to hear the material (and to make this eventual box much more enticing than just remastering the original mixes), to hear this stuff remixed and have everything a bit more dry and up front and clean.

I really think, as well, this would make the set much more relevant to an even wider audience. This could truly mirror the recent Pepper/White Album/Abbey Road Beatles sets, where the *new* remix is the centerpiece around which TONS of outtakes can be included.

The BBs have such a huge archive, and not just huge, but perhaps the last truly untapped (or barely tapped) archive of material, especially from the 70/71 era, and a nice substantive boxed set with a remix of both albums plus ample outtakes would truly raise the profile and understanding and reverence for this era in their career, and for the band in general.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense not just for fans, but from a marketing angle to remix both albums. An album remix gives the entire set some context, but also a good entry-point for how to sell the thing. It would also perhaps help to set a precedent that future releases could follow. A disc with remixes of "So Tough" and "Holland" down the line could be a great way to justify outtakes from those albums/eras as well, and they could go on down the line to later albums (even if it eventually becomes a digital-only thing if needed).

I'd like to hear the different sections of Soulful Old Man Sunshine, the improv of You Never Give Me Your Money and Rasperries, Strawberries

I just really want a new mix of long promised Road. The current mix is terrible. Carl’s voice sounds like it was recorded on a crappy 90s camcorder, and it always sounds like it’s distorting. And don’t even get me started on the back track.
This fan mix is way better:
https://youtu.be/nV7XK7T3508