Songs credited to Brian Wilson that he didn't really write

[37!ws]

Al has said that he can't remember Brian having anything to do with California Calling and that Brian had very little to do with At My Window.

I'm willing to bet Brian's contribution was:

"La mwayno....eh vehyoo.....supozay...ah ma foo NET!"

[37!ws]

Regarding "Strawberry Fields..." that intro was written by McCartney and, that entire end section (acoustic guitar and mellotron) is his musically. Lennon literally only composed the song's top melody (e.g. the demo version -- which shows what McCartney and Martin (via McCartney) brought to the relatively simple tune.)

I recommend you watch the documentary The First US Visit, particularly the scene in the hotel room. You'll change your mind about that REAL fast.

[Wirestone]

My point is that Paul clearly wrote a bunch of Beatles stuff without real contributions from John, and vice versa. (As for "Eight Days a Week," you could substitute "A Hard Day's Night," I suppose.) But we don't question the credit, because that's what they agreed to.

[bossaroo]

Diamond Head (reportedly written by the session musicians, Brian receiving credit for his role in the production)

it was "written" by Al Vescovo, the steel guitarist. the idea to create the song (basically on the spot, according to Al) was Brian's along with all of the accompanying sound effects.

[Howie Edelson]

I've watched the DVD many times, and although that mouth keyboard piece sure does sound similar, it's not the same -- nor is it a particularly original run he's playing.
The bottom line is that it's highly doubtful McCartney heard that, socked it away to embellish/finish exactly three years later -- and/or had even saw that footage in the interim.

[pixletwin]

I've watched the DVD many times, and although that mouth keyboard piece sure does sound similar, it's not the same -- nor is it a particularly original run he's playing.
The bottom line is that it's highly doubtful McCartney heard that, socked it away to embellish/finish exactly three years later -- and/or had even saw that footage in the interim.

The intro is just McCartney playing the chords John had written on a mellotron. How does that credit him as writing the intro?

[Howie Edelson]

No, it's not.

[pixletwin]

It's not? Oh well that's me sorted then... and yet.... the intro is played again over the first verse... written by Lennon.

Someone tell George Martin because he seems to have stolen the intro Paul supposedly wrote, arranged it for horns, and used it as the backing track to the second verse.

Paul may have had a hand in arranging SFF. But let's not give him credit where he doesn't deserve it eh?

[Gabo]

I recall hearing an early version of "Sweet Mountain" that David Sandler wrote and recorded. The finished Spring version isn't much different.

Also, I'm very skeptical about Brian's contribution to "That's Why God Made The Radio".

Brian didn't write TWGMTR. I remember reading an archived late 90s website article in which Joe Thomas said he "wrote a song for the Beach Boys called That's Why God Made The Radio."

[Howie Edelson]

1) The introduction to "Strawberry Fields Forever" is played on the mellotron.

2) John Lennon did not write the mellotron introduction to "Strawberry Fields Forever."

3) Paul McCartney wrote the mellotron introduction to "Strawberry Fields Forever."

This argument could go around forever (possibly even STRAWBERRY FIELDS forever).

But the facts are the facts and as much as you obviously want it to be written by John Lennon (for some reason), that piece of music -- which serves as the song's distinctive and legendary introduction -- was written by John Lennon's partner (as was the intro to "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds," "Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite," "Sexy Sadie," and "Come Together," among others.)

Good thing those guys chose each other as partners.

[pixletwin]

You are right in that this will likely just go in circles... but to borrow the frame you used in your preceding post:

1) Lennon wrote the chords for Strawberry Fields.
2) McCartney arranged those same chords (Lennon had already written) as an intro.
3) It was likely McCartney's idea to use those chords as the intro and indeed it was largely McCartney and Martin who arranged and produced the entire recording... much to Lennon's chagrin and in retrospect his great regret.

If you want to accept that as a "writing" credit, so be it. It isn't. But that's ok. I suppose that means since George Martin arranged the strings for Eleanor Rigby.. or as you would put it: George Martin wrote the music for the strings to play in Eleanor Rigby, that means he should also get writing credit.

In the end, I think the discrepancy between our two points of view must lie in a disagreement over vocabulary. But I agree, those guys both won one of the greatest lotteries in human history when they found one another.

[bgas]

You are right in that this will likely just go in circles... but to borrow the frame you used in your preceding post:

1) Lennon wrote the chords for Strawberry Fields.
2) McCartney arranged those same chords (Lennon had already written) as an intro.
3) It was likely McCartney's idea to use those chords as the intro and indeed it was largely McCartney and Martin who arranged and produced the entire recording... much to Lennon's chagrin and in retrospect his great regret.

If you want to accept that as a "writing" credit, so be it. It isn't. But that's ok. I suppose that means since George Martin arranged the strings for Eleanor Rigby.. or as you would put it: George Martin wrote the music for the strings to play in Eleanor Rigby, that means he should also get writing credit.

In the end, I think the discrepancy between our two points of view must lie in a disagreement over vocabulary. But I agree, those guys both won one of the greatest lotteries in human history when they found one another.

I know SQUAT about tMcCartney / Lennon song writing and their credits; but what I hope I'm getting from your last paragraph, is the same as has been( I think)  mentioned previously; and that is , They ( John Lennon? Paul McCartney) chose to credit their compositions to both of them, irrespective of who wrote which part/ any part at all.  Which brings it back to a simple matter of the songwriter(s) being the final judge on who should get the writinig credit.

[Wirestone]

I recall hearing an early version of "Sweet Mountain" that David Sandler wrote and recorded. The finished Spring version isn't much different.

Also, I'm very skeptical about Brian's contribution to "That's Why God Made The Radio".

Brian didn't write TWGMTR. I remember reading an archived late 90s website article in which Joe Thomas said he "wrote a song for the Beach Boys called That's Why God Made The Radio."

I believe it was Millas who was posting something along those lines on a message board. And I don't think that anyone here has heard that late 90s version of the tune -- so it's impossible to say whether Brian added something to it or not for the 2012 release. I understand why folks would be skeptical, but we just don't know for a fact. I'd say "strongly suspect."

[Alan Smith]

I recall hearing an early version of "Sweet Mountain" that David Sandler wrote and recorded. The finished Spring version isn't much different.

Also, I'm very skeptical about Brian's contribution to "That's Why God Made The Radio".

Brian didn't write TWGMTR. I remember reading an archived late 90s website article in which Joe Thomas said he "wrote a song for the Beach Boys called That's Why God Made The Radio."

I believe it was Millas who was posting something along those lines on a message board. And I don't think that anyone here has heard that late 90s version of the tune -- so it's impossible to say whether Brian added something to it or not for the 2012 release. I understand why folks would be skeptical, but we just don't know for a fact. I'd say "strongly suspect."

Again, definitely a co-write according to Joe Thomas in ESQ 97.  The story goes;
- Brian came up with the title over dinner with Millas, Peternik, Thomas and a DJ called Steve Dahl;When asked what he could hear (in his head) Brian described a '50s beat (like "Silhouettes on the Shade") with lots of modulations.

- Millas, Peternik, Thomas and Brian got together to work on it - Brian came up with the "Tune it in our latest star" bit. Millas and Peternik took it away and cooked up the demo, which JT said is quite different from the 2012 version to which Brian added parts and changed things around

- Brian always intended for it to be used on a BB album (apparently was one planned but didn't happen around this period '97/'98)

[Howie Edelson]

George Martin should've received credit on a TON of that stuff (composing the solos on "A Hard Day's Night," "Anytime At All," and "In My Life" in particular) and so should George Harrison  (e.g. "All My Loving" among many others.)

[Smile4ever]

Appropriately, Brian is NOT credited for "Kokomo," because he did not write any of it. But in case there is any doubt, Mike Love makes sure that everyone knows Brian had nothing to do with the song. Brian is equally thrilled to confirm those claims.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I recall hearing an early version of "Sweet Mountain" that David Sandler wrote and recorded. The finished Spring version isn't much different.

Also, I'm very skeptical about Brian's contribution to "That's Why God Made The Radio".

Brian didn't write TWGMTR. I remember reading an archived late 90s website article in which Joe Thomas said he "wrote a song for the Beach Boys called That's Why God Made The Radio."

I believe it was Millas who was posting something along those lines on a message board. And I don't think that anyone here has heard that late 90s version of the tune -- so it's impossible to say whether Brian added something to it or not for the 2012 release. I understand why folks would be skeptical, but we just don't know for a fact. I'd say "strongly suspect."

Again, definitely a co-write according to Joe Thomas in ESQ 97.  The story goes;
- Brian came up with the title over dinner with Millas, Peternik, Thomas and a DJ called Steve Dahl;When asked what he could hear (in his head) Brian described a '50s beat (like "Silhouettes on the Shade") with lots of modulations.

- Millas, Peternik, Thomas and Brian got together to work on it - Brian came up with the "Tune it in our latest star" bit. Millas and Peternik took it away and cooked up the demo, which JT said is quite different from the 2012 version to which Brian added parts and changed things around

- Brian always intended for it to be used on a BB album (apparently was one planned but didn't happen around this period '97/'98)

One thing that has always bothered me....

Brian didn't really title the song. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I read an account/interview in 2012 describing a dinner after a baseball game. Brian and a few friends were having dinner after a baseball game, a stormy weather forecast came over the radio, and Brian utters, "That's why God made the radio..." After the guys eventually proceed to a studio, one of them says/thinks that Brian's utterance would make a good song/title, and work on the song proceeds.

That's a lot different than Brian in the studio, noodling around or trying to come up with ideas for songs, and he - CREATIVELY and INTENTIONALLY - comes up with a line/title like that. It's almost like Brian could be accompanied by a couple of friends, and everything he says could be noted or written down and eventually used as a song title. Brian walks outside the restaurant and exclaims, "Hey it's a full moon. It looks like the man in the moon is smiling...". Hey, that's brilliant, Brian. Let's write a song called, "The Man In The Moon Is Smiling Tonight". Brian gets in the car and asks the driver to turn the heat off, "Hey, it's hot here in the back seat...". That's genius Brian, let's write a car song about a guy and a girl in the back seat of a car and we'll call it, "In The Heat Of The Back Seat".

[Sheriff John Stone]

Appropriately, Brian is NOT credited for "Kokomo," because he did not write any of it. But in case there is any doubt, Mike Love makes sure that everyone knows Brian had nothing to do with the song. Brian is equally thrilled to confirm those claims.

Actually, in some footage I've seen through the years, Brian actually appears disappointed that he wasn't involved with "Kokomo". At least it seemed that way to me...

[Smile4ever]

Appropriately, Brian is NOT credited for "Kokomo," because he did not write any of it. But in case there is any doubt, Mike Love makes sure that everyone knows Brian had nothing to do with the song. Brian is equally thrilled to confirm those claims.

Actually, in some footage I've seen through the years, Brian actually appears disappointed that he wasn't involved with "Kokomo". At least it seemed that way to me...

I've read an article in which Brian's people told a reporter that Brian would never like to discuss the song ever, under any circumstances.

[KittyKat]

Appropriately, Brian is NOT credited for "Kokomo," because he did not write any of it. But in case there is any doubt, Mike Love makes sure that everyone knows Brian had nothing to do with the song. Brian is equally thrilled to confirm those claims.

Actually, in some footage I've seen through the years, Brian actually appears disappointed that he wasn't involved with "Kokomo". At least it seemed that way to me...

I've read an article in which Brian's people told a reporter that Brian would never like to discuss the song ever, under any circumstances.

That's Brian's people, not Brian. Brian's people also said to never ask questions about Gene Landy, whom Brian had previously brought up in interviews in a positive way. Brian has said many times over the years that he wishes he had been invited to sing on "Kokomo." There's also some interview footage I've seen of him singing bits of the song. The song was not written by Mike alone, but co-written by John Phillips, who was a friend of Brian's. No doubt that Brian liked the song at least a little bit and more likely, he just wanted to be featured on a hit record.

[pixletwin]

George Martin should've received credit on a TON of that stuff (composing the solos on "A Hard Day's Night," "Anytime At All," and "In My Life" in particular) and so should George Harrison  (e.g. "All My Loving" among many others.)

Which raises an interesting question. When people look at songwriting credits nowadays they often scoff at it because they credit so many people; whereas back in the good ole days the credits were limited to the barest essentials. Is the criteria for giving credit different now than it used to be, rather than a lack of talent by an artist?

Did I make sense?  

[Kurosawa]

George Martin should've received credit on a TON of that stuff (composing the solos on "A Hard Day's Night," "Anytime At All," and "In My Life" in particular) and so should George Harrison  (e.g. "All My Loving" among many others.)

Which raises an interesting question. When people look at songwriting credits nowadays they often scoff at it because they credit so many people; whereas back in the good ole days the credits were limited to the barest essentials. Is the criteria for giving credit different now than it used to be, rather than a lack of talent by an artist?

Did I make sense?  

Probably it's anyone involved wanting a cut of the money.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Appropriately, Brian is NOT credited for "Kokomo," because he did not write any of it. But in case there is any doubt, Mike Love makes sure that everyone knows Brian had nothing to do with the song. Brian is equally thrilled to confirm those claims.

Actually, in some footage I've seen through the years, Brian actually appears disappointed that he wasn't involved with "Kokomo". At least it seemed that way to me...

I've read an article in which Brian's people told a reporter that Brian would never like to discuss the song ever, under any circumstances.

No doubt that Brian liked the song at least a little bit and more likely, he just wanted to be featured on a hit record.

Or credited...

I recall a TV appearance The Beach Boys made during the Stars & Stripes period; it was on an evening talk/variety show on the Country Music Channel or whatever it was called. And, eventually the talk turned to "Kokomo". The studio audience began to applaud and Brian - yes, Brian - points to Mike Love and yells out, "There's the man", obviously giving credit to Mike. It was kinda nice, he didn't have to do it, and, obviously he wasn't shying away from the subject.

[Jim V.]

Seems like Sunflower might be an album where Brian had much less to do with than it really seems like. He did sing a lot, write a lot of material during the period (which most of it was unreleased at the time), but who knows what he actually came up with on the album besides "This Whole World", "Add Some Music", and I suppose "Our Sweet Love". Even "Cool Cool Water".. Do we even know any info that Brian produced or coproduced that 3rd portion of that song? I think I read that Stephen Desper did quite a bit on it like playing the moog part for example.

Well, as far as Sunflower, we know for a fact Brian wrote "This Whole World", "Add Some Music", "Our Sweet Love" and "Cool, Cool Water". As far as what he did with them is a different story. I guess we could say he pretty much saw "This Whole World" and "Add Some Music" through to their completion. For "Our Sweet Love", I'm pretty sure it's well known 'round these parts that he started it, and abandoned after he had the track cut, along with the fade, which one can listen to right here! After that apparently Al and Carl took it upon themselves to finish it, which would explain the credit to all three. We also know that "Cool, Cool Water" was originally started as a recording in 1967, and one could say that if you wanna trace it's roots you could say it's composition started in 1966 with with what was titled "Da Da" on the SMiLE box set. However, it is obvioius that Brian was involved at least near the completion of the song as he shares the lead with Mike on the last part of the song.

I suppose the only real question mark is "All I Wanna Do". I've heard some say it was mostly a Mike composition with Brian just finding the chords behind Mike's melody. But even that would still be considered worthy of a writer's credit right? Who knows if that's the way it happened anyways.

But regardless, I think my former belief that there were seven Brian Wilson songs on Sunflower isn't quite true, as "Diedre" is really Bruce's and "At My Window" is really Al's (or to be more honest perhaps Will Holt, who composed "Raspberries, Strawberries").

[Alan Smith]

I recall hearing an early version of "Sweet Mountain" that David Sandler wrote and recorded. The finished Spring version isn't much different.

Also, I'm very skeptical about Brian's contribution to "That's Why God Made The Radio".

Brian didn't write TWGMTR. I remember reading an archived late 90s website article in which Joe Thomas said he "wrote a song for the Beach Boys called That's Why God Made The Radio."

I believe it was Millas who was posting something along those lines on a message board. And I don't think that anyone here has heard that late 90s version of the tune -- so it's impossible to say whether Brian added something to it or not for the 2012 release. I understand why folks would be skeptical, but we just don't know for a fact. I'd say "strongly suspect."

Again, definitely a co-write according to Joe Thomas in ESQ 97.  The story goes;
- Brian came up with the title over dinner with Millas, Peternik, Thomas and a DJ called Steve Dahl;When asked what he could hear (in his head) Brian described a '50s beat (like "Silhouettes on the Shade") with lots of modulations.

- Millas, Peternik, Thomas and Brian got together to work on it - Brian came up with the "Tune it in our latest star" bit. Millas and Peternik took it away and cooked up the demo, which JT said is quite different from the 2012 version to which Brian added parts and changed things around

- Brian always intended for it to be used on a BB album (apparently was one planned but didn't happen around this period '97/'98)

One thing that has always bothered me....

Brian didn't really title the song. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I read an account/interview in 2012 describing a dinner after a baseball game. Brian and a few friends were having dinner after a baseball game, a stormy weather forecast came over the radio, and Brian utters, "That's why God made the radio..." After the guys eventually proceed to a studio, one of them says/thinks that Brian's utterance would make a good song/title, and work on the song proceeds.

That's a lot different than Brian in the studio, noodling around or trying to come up with ideas for songs, and he - CREATIVELY and INTENTIONALLY - comes up with a line/title like that. It's almost like Brian could be accompanied by a couple of friends, and everything he says could be noted or written down and eventually used as a song title. Brian walks outside the restaurant and exclaims, "Hey it's a full moon. It looks like the man in the moon is smiling...". Hey, that's brilliant, Brian. Let's write a song called, "The Man In The Moon Is Smiling Tonight". Brian gets in the car and asks the driver to turn the heat off, "Hey, it's hot here in the back seat...". That's genius Brian, let's write a car song about a guy and a girl in the back seat of a car and we'll call it, "In The Heat Of The Back Seat".

The ESQ thing has Brian et al hanging out in the restaurant after the baseball game (Brice, an Italian restaurant), but no mention of the storm forecast. It would be interesting to read the other one at some stage, there could well be a few variations depending who's telling (was it Al?  )

Joe T's account establishes Brian at Brice came up with the idea (Joe quotes Brian as saying "We really gotta come up with a song for The Beach Boys that talks about the radio.  Kind of like "That's Why God Made The Radio"), Joe put his fork down and wrote down the title, then Brian explained the musical tone he wanted; when later noodling about on the piano Brian came up with the first line; then 15 or so years later restructured the demo Millas/Peterik had cooked up and added his own bits - which qualifies for a co-write credit, I'd say.