Smiley Smile

[Jeff Mason]

Mike, that's the only argument that was said for almost 30 years!  Smiley was consistently slammed, mostly by those who lived through that time, for just the reasons you give.  If people keep trumpeting the same lines fed them by Rolling Stone in the 60's, you will find...

-- The Monkees were pure bubblegum with nothing interesting of lasting value
-- The Stones' Satanic Majesties was a horrible mistake
-- Sgt. Pepper is the greatest album ever
-- the Beach Boys were irrelevant in everything they did after Good Vibrations.

It's not 1967, and all of the rhetoric is long gone.  None of these opinions are universal anymore; in fact, I think the opposite of all of them -- Majesties is one of the best Stones, the BB's best music was 1966-1973, the Monkees are one of the best acts of the 60's, and Pepper is vastly overrated.  Or take this: people slammed on Ram by Macca because it wasn't lyrically profound, as if he were morally required to trumpet counterculture values with every release to be worthy of consideration.  In 2006, no one really cares much about that.  Now people hear Ram and think, wow, what a great album!  The same thing is happening with Smiley.  It's OK if you don't like it, but if you start telling others how it SHOULD be, no one will take you seriously.

For example, all of this posturing misses what I REALLY like.  My Beach Boy fandom was average until I heard Sunflower.  That album made me a Beach Boys fanatic.  It totally blew me out of the water and rocked my world.  It still does.  I can't imagine another BB album better for me.  And that includes Pet Sounds.  Critically, I can see that Pet Sounds is great and I totally get why people rate it so high.  But it is not the one I reach for the most -- that would be Sunflower.  I think it is a better Beach Boys album in that it is truly the Beach Boys, and not Brian and his singers (which IMO is a valid critique of PS -- it is a Brian Wilson album with guest BB vocals).  But do you hear me telling the Pet Sounds fans that they should prefer Sunflower?  Or that Sunflower is the greatest album ever? (OK, you may hear me say that... )

Taste and preference are great to talk.  The moment it becomes forced upon someone, the joy is gone.  I can't force Ian Wagner to admit that Abbey Road is the greatest album by the Beatles, he can't force me to like the Velvet Underground, but we are still very friendly with each other (and FWIW share a LOT of our tastes).  When we disagree, we joke around a bit.  Make dumb comments.  But we don't get ticked.  I have seen Ian disagree with lots of people without acting this way.  That should say something -- your valid opinion is getting missed by your delivery.

[I. Spaceman]

Great stuff, Jeff, thanks for stating my feelings so much better and peaceably.

[mike8902]

Well first of all I was the one insulted first. I insulted the album not anyones opinions. Everyone took it to heart. I guess a lot of people can't get past the first impression.

I form my own opinions before I read other peoples opinions. The first Beach Boy music I heard besides the early stuff was Smile, and I was just totally blown away, and then I read about Smile and got really into the Beach Boys. And after hearing smiley smile my opinion was pretty much the same as the "universal opinion". I happen to think what they said was correct(in my mind). I can see past bullshit rhetoric dude. I agree that Sunflower is in the same league as pet sounds (I still like pet sounds a little better). I think the rolling stones suck. Like a rolling stone, and I can't get no satisfaction are clearly not the greatest songs ever.

I would have no problem with smiley smile if Smile was released. I just think Smile was sacrificed for smiley smile and I'm not cool with that.
 

[Jeff Mason]

(opening a kettle of worms....)

So what was your opinion of Smile 2004?  And did you see the tour?

[mike8902]

Edit: What I meant to say was I insulted the album smiley smile and not anyone personally.

I think Smile 04 is just okay. I don't like some of the production aspects( too much digital samples of harpsichords etc..) and Brians voice sounds protooled and is obviously not what it used to be. I prefer to listen to the unreleased 66-67 material of smile. And yes, I did see the tour it was pretty sweet to see him in the flesh performing smile.

[I. Spaceman]

Read the beginning of Jeff's first post again, Mike.
You don't seem to be understanding our point.
In an online community, you need to not make a negative first impression.
It's the SMILEY SMILE board!
Would you go on the Pinkerton board and say Pinkerton sucks?

[b.dfzo]

Protooled?  I think, of any of his album, BWPS showcases Brian's most pure vocal performance, to these ears. 

[mike8902]

Okay well I'll say Brian gave it his absolute best shot at the vocals for Smile. His voice is just not even close to what he could once do with it.

[mike8902]

Well, tough! I have 5 or 6 friends who are into the beach boys and evey one of them doesn't like smiley smile at all. So I never even knew there were people out there that liked smiley smile. Sorry!

[I. Spaceman]

Cool. Well, bygones are bygones. You're already making some valuable contributions to the board.
Welcome aboard! 

[mike8902]

sweet

[b.dfzo]

His voice is just not even close to what he could once do with it.

Hate to say you're just preaching to the choir, Mike.  That's been been apparent for about the past 30 years.

[mike8902]

haha, just making sure.

[Jeff Mason]

Cool. Well, bygones are bygones. You're already making some valuable contributions to the board.
Welcome aboard! 

King of Anglia take two, perhaps....?

[b.dfzo]

I just noticed in my previous post, I said 'been' twice.  But, you know what?  That's not a mistake - it's just double the freshness!  I'm going to start deliberately typing words twice for extra extra added emphasis.  Is that cool cool?

[I. Spaceman]

Cool. Well, bygones are bygones. You're already making some valuable contributions to the board.
Welcome aboard! 

King of Anglia take two, perhaps....?

Hope so!!!

[Jason Penick]

I don't have much to add here, except that the sequencing on that album is genius.

Key moment:  "Whispering Winds" outro into the blaring Baldwinisms of "Gettin' Hungry".  Can you say, "dynamic tension"?  (And if you do say it, best to use your top Pete Townshend impression.  )

[I. Spaceman]

John Entwistle!


 

[jazzfascist]

Brian was the one IN CONTROL of Smiley Smile, why wouldn't he have the final say on the album? The other band had nothing to do with the production. The session tapes are evidence of this.

I don't think you can take session tapes as final evidence of this, they are kind of aural snapshots of the sessions and don't tell the whole story. According to Keith Badman Brian was only sporadically in control and Carl is quoted as saying: "We'd just let the tape machines roll. We'd just make up stuff and just do it. There wasn't any real effort into that album. It was very simple. It was more like a jam album" (pp. 188). So it sounds like SS was very underproduced and also like it was more or less a collective effort. The producer credit on the album also bears that out.

Søren

[Old Rake]

Dude, if tapes of the sessions where Brian is in FULL CONTROL, calling every single shot on every single tape, are not evidence enough for you, then what would be? Do you think that while the tapes were rolling Brian was every bit the dictator he was during the Smile sessions, then after the machines shut off Carl was in control? Ludicrous. "Snapshots" they may be, but they're snapshots of a guy still in charge of his band.

If Keith Badman says otherwise, he's wrong. The tapes do not bear this out. Carl might have had some say, and might've indeed helped with the production of the album, but when it came time to do the nitty gritty, Brian Wilson was in charge, just like he had been. And just like he would be for another album and a half at least, including the aborted "Leid In Hawaii" sessions.

If people are surprised Brian is in charge of this album, has NOBODY heard "Beach Boys Party" or "HELP Is On The Way" or the Fairy Tale or "Love You?" Or the "Lei'd In Hawaii" concerts or the aborted sessions for the re-done fake live album? Or even the chanting sessions with the Vosse Posse while the Beach Boys were away? The "loose, off the cuff, funny" Brian is just one of several Brians that occasionally surface creatively -- the meticulous craftsman is the other main one. "Smiley Smile" was indeed a logical extension of that creative thread he started back on "Party."

People always think "Party" was just a throwaway between REAL Beach Boys albums. I've always thought it represented a new mode of creation for the big guy -- in which he figured out that he LIKED tossing stuff off like that. I don't think its a throwaway at all, it represents the beginning of one of the threads which you can trace through his entire career. "Smiley" is just one stopping off point.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Not to mention that Brian played essentially every instrument on SS.  Hard not to be in control when you're physically responsible for almost everything on the tape.

[c-man]

Not to mention that Brian played essentially every instrument on SS.  Hard not to be in control when you're physically responsible for almost everything on the tape.

Um...not really.  Carl, Al and Dennis were there playing guitar, bass and percussion on many of those tracks.  Brian pretty much just did the organ and piano (and maybe harmonica). 

C-Man

[c-man]

Dude, if tapes of the sessions where Brian is in FULL CONTROL, calling every single shot on every single tape, are not evidence enough for you, then what would be?

There are also some tapes from those sessions where the other guys were in the control booth producing, while Brian was out in front of the mic.  Not that the overall concept wasn't Brian's...but he WAS allowing the others to "help" out on production a bit more with that album.

C-Man

[Jeff Mason]

Not to mention that Brian played essentially every instrument on SS.  Hard not to be in control when you're physically responsible for almost everything on the tape.

Um...not really.  Carl, Al and Dennis were there playing guitar, bass and percussion on many of those tracks.  Brian pretty much just did the organ and piano (and maybe harmonica). 

C-Man

Which for most tracks is all that there is.  But you make one major omission -- that is Brian's bass on Vegetables.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Yeah, leaving H&V and GV out of consideration, and not minding percussion you have:

Vegetables:  Brian on Bass, could be anybody on "pitcher".

Fall Breaks:  Organ dominated, I'd guess Brian on Melodica too.

She's Goin' Bald:  Just Organ, really.  Could be anybody on Bongos.  Piano.

Little Pad:  Brian at piano, presumably Chuck Berghoffer is on there somewhere, and per Brian, Al Vescovo.  Carl on Uke?

With me tonight:  Organ, bass drum could be anybody.

Wind Chimes:  Organ, anybody could be on percussion, Carl presumably on the minimal guitar.

Gettin' Hungry:  Organ, sounds like Brian on Bass to me, guitars, maybe finally both Al and Carl?

Wonderful:  Organ, some piano.  All Brian.

Whistle In:  Piano, hard to tell who is on bass.  Sounds like whoever it is that plays a lot on Wild Honey and Friends.  But it could be anybody really.

Seems like Brian played about everything to me.  I really don't think Al or Dennis had a lot to do, other than sing.