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By the early 70's there weren't that many potential "hits" written by the boys, but by 1975 it seems they at least had some good single potential with at least 3 songs...

- River Song
- Good Timin'
- It's O.K

Even Susie Cincinnati was unreleased and might've had some single potential given its "old school" style which was to popular at the time.

Surely using one of these songs would be a better vehicle to relaunch themselves artistically into the mainstream. Especially "It's O.K" had some serious single potential. They also had a bunch of songs available and they could've put out another decent 30 min album to catch the wave by late 1975 at the very least.

Why did they feel the oldies approach was best? Where was Carl and Dennis in this? This was still some time before their drug and marital problems got out of hand. Was it only to entice Brian back into the producers chair and capitalise on his involvement for publicity?

Simply answer: by that time, Endless Summer had exploded, and Spirit Of America was following it into the Top Ten that very year. Faced with the excellence of their own (Brian Wilson-orchestrated) past coming back to stare them in the face, the group felt that any new album had to have BW steering the helm. Sure, the other members felt they could and should still contribute a song or two, but they REALLY wanted Brian to rise up, Phoenix-like, and revert to his former self...but in a modern sense. In other words, they wanted a contemporary-sounding, hit-filled, glossy Brian Wilson production for the then-modern times. They felt they needed that to be perceived as both artistically AND commercially valid. What they got a year later in 15 Big Ones in no way measured up to their expectations, but by that time they needed to get SOMETHING new out before they lost the momentum, and Brian was semi-back, so there you go.

A similar thing happened in 1981-'82: they were all interested in making a new album, but Carl especially felt that either (a) Brian needed to be truly "back" AND running things as he once was (and NOT just the latter), or they needed a strong commercial producer with some strong contemporary-sounding material. So we got something close to that with the '85 Steve Levine-produced album: some nice moments, but hardly the hoped-for blockbuster.

I'll hasten to add that pressure from the respective record companies to get BW involved was also paramount in both periods (Warner Bros. in '75, CBS in '81-'82).
Never underestimate the persuasive power of the record company!

It also appears that touring became more and more lucrative, and this coincided with *new* albums being less and less popular and therefore less lucrative. I think some of the albums we *did* get into the later 70s and early 80s had as much to do with securing and keeping advances from the label as they did with trying to stay artistically active and forward-moving.

Of course, by the 80s and into the 90s this became an even more prevalent theme. Touring and playing oldies made more money, and got them stronger and more immediately positive feedback. This also explains why by the 80s and 90s, they were hesitant to even dip much into their back catalog to do deeper cuts.

I think there was a period of time, even after they had stopped having "Hits", that they still recorded albums because, well, that's just "what they did." They were *recording artists* who also toured. They did five albums in five years from 1976 to 1980, despite having minimal success after "15 Big Ones."

It wasn't just the band who felt they wanted Brian back in the producer's chair, and it wasn't just the labels being labels: It had been a stipulation in their contracts both with Warner/Reprise and CBS that Brian be involved in producing the records.

That pretty much sums up what the general feeling was in the industry regarding paying for and releasing a Beach Boys album without Brian Wilson's involvement, as minimal as that would be in some cases. When the band was fishing for new labels at various times, that was the clout that he brought (the credit produced by Brian Wilson) to the bargaining table for the band regarding labels and contracts which neither the band name itself nor any other members individually or collectively could bring.

Quite funny then, considering that the re-recordings of many songs from Friends which Brian did together with Stanley Shapiro and Tandyn Almer were found promising, but rejected upon Warner Bros. discovering Brian "erratic has-been" Wilson partaking in the project only few years before Endless Summer came out.

How many Friends songs...perhaps 4? And the label - A&M - who was behind that project to rewrite or recast some of Brian's 60's songs so they could shop the songs to be covered by artists on their label to make a few bucks on their newly-purchased catalog of Beach Boys songs, had an issue with Tandyn Almer's involvement too due to his antics. The way the post above reads, Warner rejected it because Brian was an "erratic has-been" and that's not quite the case.

A&M was the label looking for the rewrites, not Warners. Brian got involved apparently because the lead sheets being accessed for the project which had been done to copyright Brian's songs in the 60's were not accurate, and Brian offered them the original backing tracks as well to help fix the various errors, which led to his personal involvement beyond that level with Shapiro and Almer. Brian was happy his music was being reviewed again like this. It was a guy named Nelson at A&M who pitched a fit when he found out who the voices were, especially Almer and also Brian who he worried would do something bizarre while on the A&M grounds.

Such is the story told, anyway.

Well technically, "Susie Cincinnati" was already released back in 1970 as the b-side to "Add Some Music to Your Day", but since the single flopped, I guess the track was as good as unreleased to the group!

As Al tells it, "Susie Cincinnati" was John Belushi's favorite song, at least at the time they were working together on the TV special.

I'm not sure "Susie..." was ever destined to be a hit. It's a cool Al track, and it would be a blast to hear him do it in concert now, but it has never struck me as an amazing piece. It has a similar sonic stamp that stuff from that era has like "Slip on Through", "I'm Going Your Way", "This Whole World", etc.

One could actually at least try to argue that when finally released in 1979, "Good Timin'" was at least a "minor" hit, as it technically reached the Top 40 by getting literally to #40. That song seemed to have a good foothold in particular in certain radio markets as I recall. You can actually hear cheers as the song starts up when they play it on that 1980 Philadelphia radio broadcast; about the only time I've ever heard "song recognition cheers" from a crowd for anything the band did in that era.

Wasn't it also the b-side (in the US) to Child of Winter in Dec. 1974? Then in Nov. 1976 the b-side to Everyone's In Love With You. Still, it certainly should have found a home on a 1975 studio album.

Edit: Or was Susie the a-side in 1976? If so, Wiki is surely misleading...

Good point! Forgot about that. In these internet days it's always hard to remember that the singles actually had B-sides...

Regarding a re-release as an A-sided single in 1975, I think Susie Cincinnati could pull off something, since it does fit the style of the retro 60s. Re-releasing a single has never stopped our Boys either, look at Sail On, Sailor and Come Go With Me  ;)

There could have been a very good 1975 album

1. It's OK
2. Good Timin'
3. Rainbows
4. You're Riding High On The Music
5. Barnyard Blues
6. California Feelin'
7. River Song
8. Ding Dang
9. Don't Let Me Go
10. Earthquake Time
11. Our Life Our Love Our Land
12. Holy Man

No LP in 1975 was directly attributable to four things:

--"Endless Summer" going to #1 on the Billboard charts in the late summer/early fall of 1974.

--Increasing publicity about Brian's eccentric behavior and his estrangement from the band.

--A virtually carbon-copy performance by "Spirit of America" in the summer of 1975.

--The increasingly rapturous press about the Beach Boys across this time frame, focusing (as the original poster noted) on Brian's songwriting/production genius.

All of this led to a gradual but inevitable return to an oldies-based show--and with Brian out of the picture in terms of the studio, Jack Reiley replaced by Steve Love as manager (meaning no connection between career strategy and music production), Mike and Al pushing for T&M and sobriety vs. Dennis' and Carl's penchant for the "rock'n'roll lifestyle", you have a recipe for NOT creating much new music, not being able to agree on what should be released, and a mounting fear that anything new would be slammed in comparison to the past and the current bubble of acclaim and prosperity would be burst.

Would those 12 tracks that icanhearmusic551 lists make for an LP that would have been well-received in 1975? (BTW, love your YouTube channel!) Having been there at the time, I fear the answer is..."no." Leaving aside the assumption that the track listing was actually feasible at any point in '75, I think this LP would have been seen as more disjointed than CATP and would have been greeted at the time with raised eyebrows from the entirety of the rock press. It would have been seen as another record that failed to deliver enough Brian Wilson.

IMO their best shot was to have come up with a version of "River Song" that had more vocals than this early version and released it as a single in April '75 before their Beachago tour and prior to the release of "Spirit of America."  With some luck and persistence (such as featuring it in the Beachago show) the track might have caught on as a "new variation" on the BB sound. It might have been carried along by the events of the summer in a manner analogous to how "Kokomo" climbed the charts thirteen years later, and become the first BB hit without Brian's involvement.

Have we even heard all of those songs? I don't think stuff like "Earthquake Time" or "Riding High...." even circulate. They could be amazing or could totally stink.

I'm guessing based on what we have heard that such an album would have been torn apart by the critics for being so schizophrenic.

Unfortunately we don't have some of these track as bootlegs even. If they are decent, why would they still be in the vaults?

1. It's OK
2. Good Timin'
3. Rainbows
4. You're Riding High On The Music
5. Barnyard Blues
6. California Feelin'
7. River Song
8. Ding Dang
9. Don't Let Me Go
10. Earthquake Time
11. Our Life Our Love Our Land
12. Holy Man

That being said, Barnyard Blues proved to be a pretty good track, so there is hope. Other tracks that are known to have been worked on include Pacific Ocean Blue and Angel Come Home (Carl's Song). The Night Was So Young was also in the process of being recorded around this time I recall reading somewhere.

All in all a worthy successor of Holland could be put together. Add the three good outtakes from Sunflower; Good Time, Back Home and Susie Cincinnati, and you have enough tracks to make as good an album as any of the previous ones.

Still anticipating those unheard tracks. It seems the 1975 album could've quickly put together as a "20/20" style mashup and still be commercially and critically successful. At least something like this should've been plan B in late 1976 when it was becoming clear that the upcoming 15 Big Ones album was weak.

I beg to disagree with Don Malcolm on the issue of this hypothetical album's critical and commercial reception. The public was going nuts for the Beach Boys and the shows were being held at large, packed arenas. The Dennis and Carl songs were very potent. The few songs by Brian was good and hit worthy, though his personal involvement seems unlikely in that year.

I think critics would enjoy it and so would the public. Sail On Sailor and Holland had a warm reception, with minimal BW involvement.

I feel like there was no single release then because they did not feel like they did have an album together.  Why release a single without an album to be pushed by said single?  Having said that, I think yes, perhaps they should have released It's OK as a single in 75....if anything, it may have been super-goosed up the charts as a result of there being no other actual new product from the band being released in that year, coupled with their massive "oldies" revival.  That was a missed opportunity...the subsequent late release of IOK in the LATE summer surely hurt that song's chances of becoming a larger hit...talk about Bad Timin', right up there with the belated release of Child of Winter.  Who the hell was running this band??

I believe in one of the early Timothy White interviews during the 15 Big Ones sessions, Carl was very enthusiastic about Good Timin'. 

I think, after Endless Summer and Spirit of America, they did the only thing they really could do ... which was 15 Big Ones.

Wasn't it Steve Love? Family always makes for the best advice anyway  ;D

Um... Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again? Where Is She? Sweet And Bitter?? these have been hidden in deep dark for many decades.

Sweet and Bitter? Not familiar with that one...

I think that C-Man's post hits the nail right on the head in terms of what was happening in and around the Beach Boys world in 1975. For those of us who were there, that's  how it went down. I don't think that any of the hypothetical albums mentioned would have had much appeal. I do agree that releasing It's OK prior to the Beachago tour would've been a great move and could've led to that tune becoming a big hit. Which I think it would've been had it been the first single released from 15 Big Ones.

Remember there is also. Battle Hymn Of The Republic and Just An Imitation   Why Don't You Try Me is another.  But yeah some of these don't circulate. I really hope more stuff is released in the future

It was a big hit here in the Seattle area, probably top 10 on our top 40 station KJR.

Here's something I never understood...there were so many recordings with Brian on them in the vaults, alogn with sundry other un-released material. Why not release THAT stuff in 1974 or 1975 with additional overdubs (to sound more "of the times") ? If they wanted to show Brian was more "involved" there was PLENTY of material in the can that could've been polished up and released and passed off as new material. I mean, "Good Time" and "When Girls Get Together" would've fit more in 1975 then in 1977 and 1980 respectively.   That would have bought him some time to get used to the studio again (and maybe he would've felt less pressure in that scenario).

It's from 1970 after Sunflower sessions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9En27eb2gMQ

Leaked out of the blue in 2013, i believe we never heard of that song existence beforehand.

I wish Dennis replaced Mike on lead, sounds like it would fit him more and compliment better the song overall but still a pretty nice lil' late 60s style song, you know? in fact i always thought it sounded pretty similar to The Letter by The Box Tops.

I just don't think there were enough completed tracks to put out an LP in '75 regardless of how much clamoring there was for a new BB LP.

This was a tricky situation back then and it was noted in the press on more than one occasion. The newer material had not brought them any hits--last one, "Do It Again" in '68, had not been warmly received in the press because it was a look backward.

As for putting a single out without an LP, it was still a common practice in the 70s. The LP might come out 3-6 months later and if the song was a hit, people would buy the LP to get the hit.

And let's not forget that the BBs biggest hit was a standalone 45. Something called "Good Vibrations."

"It's OK" was referred to by many in the contemporary press as "Do It Again Again," which was one of the reasons the BBs shied away from putting it out as the first single. Would it have performed better than "Rock'n"Roll Music"? Hard to say. The latter had a lot of staying power on the charts (six weeks in the Top 10) and the only real question looking at it now is whether they should have brought "It's OK" out a couple of weeks earlier. However, 15BO was not the LP that folks had hoped for from the BBs and it didn't have the commercial coattails to help a second 45 get a lot of traction. 15BO was in the Top 20 on the LP charts for just six weeks--compare that to the commercial "failure", Pet Sounds, which was in the Top 20 for twice as long.

In 1975 the band was in the final stages of resisting a wholesale return to the old sound--I don't think they were psychologically ready to fully embrace that direction until after Brian was pulled out of the bedroom and plopped down into the studio.

What you have here is a "frog in the pot" syndrome, and a band that had spent 5+ years pushing hard for a new image and had been heckled by part of its fan base to play oldies when they all wanted to go in a different direction.

Billy, "When Girls Get Together" was NOT going to be a hit in any year ending in '75, or any other year ending in any two numbers of your choice! The only reason it was released was to try to fool CBS into thinking that Brian was doing more work on KTSA than was really the case.

"Good Time" is a fun tune, but not a hit with those lyrics ("and so she needs her falsies on") and not a hit without 'em, either. Besides, it had already been handed off to Marilyn and Diane for the Spring LP.

"Sweet and Bitter"--not a hit, no matter who sung it.

Not to be as grouchy as ADG, but you guys who weren't alive when this situation was going on are just not registering with the full nature of the dilemma that existed at the time. What the BBs were mortally afraid of was that they would pick the wrong song to put out in this time frame and, as Jack Rieley liked to say, "blow it." That's why they played it so ultra-safe in '76 by making a Chuck Berry cover their comeback single.

"Battle Hymn of the Republic" is actually a good example of something that fans seemed to have relatively high hopes for (I think fans clamored for it for the EH soundtrack in 1998), but then when it finally "circulated", we found out how weird and not-so-great it was. I'm not even as down on the track as some were when they first reacted to finally hearing it; it *does* pretty much sound like what would happen if the "15 Big Ones" era group and sound tackled the song.

But I can see why that one hasn't made it onto compilations with outtakes.

The "Sweet and Bitter" song was posted by a guy named Don Goldberg who had done a few sessions with the band around 1970. He also posted two other songs done with the group with his own vocals; one was his version of "Out in the Country", and the third was a song called "Fading Love Song." I think the latter two tracks had some BBs on the backing tracks, but no vocals.

I'm not sure if anybody ever confirmed whether "Sweet and Bitter" is in the BRI vaults. Goldberg may have the only copy. It's an interesting song, with a unique and spunky Mike lead vocal. But I also recall that the version Goldberg posted clearly had some overdubs that sounded like they had been recorded *much* later than 1970; they sounded more late 70s or maybe even 80s. That makes me think Goldberg retains the original multi-track for the song, as he was able to remove and record various elements at some later date, almost certainly without any BB involvement.

I would tend to doubt "Sweet and Bitter" would surface on a BB compilation, the mere ownership of the song and recording may be in question to begin with.

Well, the original Youtube uploads by Goldberg himself has since been shut down for copyrights claimed by Brother Records Inc, so does that tells us anything.. ?

I've heard before that people have heard Your Riding High On The Music   I swear I saw it on YouTube once but I doubt it now

Never meant WGGT had any chance of being a hit, and was in fact just saying it should've been an album track on a proposed 1975 album for the same reason it was released in 1980

Possibly, but BRI issues takedown notices on YouTube *and* eBay stuff all the time, occasionally casting a wide net that includes stuff that they don't even appear to own.

The Goldberg stuff may have been specifically targeted, or just caught up in a sweep of all kinds of other stuff.

I don't think it has ever been out there. What does sometimes happen in fandoms is that someone posts (or circulates, in the olden days) something under a famous/infamous unreleased song title even though it's not actually that song.

The one example I can think of at the moment is the instrumental from the 1960 Beatles rehearsal tape that was titled "Thinking of Linking" (an early Lennon/McCartney original title) for years until the *actual* "Thinking of Linking" was finally heard, which indeed is a totally different song. McCartney ended up titling the 1960 instrumental "Cayenne" for the "Anthology" album, though many have suspected he may have devised that title in the 90s (can't remember at the moment whether Mark Lewisohn dug up any info on whether that song could have been called "Cayenne" back then).

OK...but can't say that I'm keen on that idea either. Cobbling together an LP out of some combo of new and old was something born out of desperation and increasing cynicism, and would have been exactly what the band needed to avoid in 1975 to cement their reemergence in the pantheon of rock.

Not to mention that the track itself is plodding and lugubrious in the extreme...deserving (at best) a release on a GV30 or MIC set or maybe an "Odds & Sods" type compilation.

<<The only reason it was released was to try to fool CBS into thinking that Brian was doing more work on KTSA than was really the case.>>

Don - as someone who was a fan at the time - your analysis is the best view of the 1975-76 era as I have ever read.  In the case of WGGT, I believe there might have even been a contractual requirement with CBS that over half of the songs on KTSA had to be Brian Wilson compositions.  Thus we had the promo ads in magazines in 1980 touting no less than "6 new Brian Wilson songs, including five by hit songwriting team Brian Wilson and Mike Love!"

I remember that ad very well.

Interesting to note about "When Girls Get Together" is that they apparently considered it for "15 Big Ones" as well. That "Brother Proposed Bonus Tracks" compilation that surfaced several years ago listed a "15 Big Ones" mix of the song.

However much I find the song pretty dull and tedious, some guys in the band must have had a soft spot for the song.

The band made some seemingly screwy decisions for KTSA. They dug out "When Girls Get Together", and also gave consideration to "Can't Wait Too Long" as well as lazily licensing the then-17-year-old "The Lord's Prayer" for the album (can anyone imagine McCartney randomly putting the original Beatles recording of, say, "I'll Get You" on his 1980 album "McCartney II"?), all the while there were a bunch of serviceable outtakes from the sessions that would have sounded less out of place, like "Goin' to the Beach", "I'll Always Love You", "Da Doo Ron Ron", not to mention over an album's worth of unreleased stuff on "Adult Child", and so on.

It's all very strange indeed.

But if the stipulation was to specifically have songs written by both Brian + Mike, then it tends to make more sense. Because how many usable outtakes were there in the can that were written by those two?

WGGT is a total slog though.

Brian sounds more like MIU era Brian here....crazy.

I think they did have a hit single in the vaults they could have brought out after Endless Summer: Soulful Old Man Sunshine (with Carl's "shunshine" flub cleaned up). It was a really good old-school Beach Boys style song, and even if it was mostly Rick Henn's song, it had Brian's name on it, so people would believe he was "back."

San Miguel would have been another good cut for an album in 1975 -- and I think they should have bump one of the covers off 15 Big Ones to put it on.

The band had some brilliant songs in the vaults in 1975. What would have actually scored them *a hit*, or whether they could have achieved a hit, is difficult to say. The relative hit status of "Rock and Roll Music" in 1976 had a fair amount to do with publicity rather than solely pure musical brilliance.

So, without that '76 style promotional push, I'm not sure what would have scored a hit in '75.

Was "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" sonically/stylistically/production-wise like anything that was scoring a hit single for artists in 1975. I'm not a historical Top 40 aficionado, but based on the other artists I *am* familiar with that had hits around that time, it doesn't sound like anything that was a hit around that time.

I can't imagine the 1975 live Beach Boys going on TV and either miming to or performing live "Soulful Old Man Sunshine."

I was absolutely floored the first time I heard "River Song," and that was before I was an obsessed fan. I think it had the best chance as a single of anything else they had at that point.

Wasn't "Rainbows (string bass song)" also recorded by 1975? Another fun pop track that might have gotten some love and advanced the popular perception of the "Beach Boys sound."

Of course, neither of these have a Brian Wilson writing credit... Which raises another interesting point. Dennis and Brian never wrote much together until the cocaine/hamburger sessions. It would be tough to see how that arrangement would have worked, given that both brothers had trouble getting their productions across the finish line without help from the rest of the group and Carl, especially. And neither was exactly an accomplished wordsmith. But it would have been cool if Brian and Dennis had managed to genuinely collaborate on a few tracks while they both still had some fire in their bellies.

Also, let's not forget that there is some evidence Dennis was a big part in the return to the oldies concert format after the Rieley era and the beginning of the Endless Summer. You don't hear from the fans when you're laying down tracks for your new, groundbreaking project in the studio, but you definitely hear them screaming for Little Deuce Coupe from the audience when you're on stage trying to play your latest, forward-looking compilation. Must have been a bummer.

"River Song" was their best shot for the music zeitgeist in 1975--it just needed more BB-type vocals added to it. It was not a conventional "verse-chorus" song, but a more guitar-based version of the sequence Dennis arrived at for the POB version would definitely have had a shot--particularly given the type of press that they were getting for their live performances.

I think the best way to characterize what happened with 15BO was that once the band had capitulated to Steve Love's "Brian is Back" promotional shuck, and they got a good listen to what they were getting once they'd all jumped into that old Woodie and were weaving (not honkin'...) down the highway in it, they decided to play it ultra-safe with "Rock'n'Roll Music." It had the pedigree (Chuck Berry) when folks still cared about the roots of rock'n'roll; it had Mike on lead just like the old days (Mike had been mostly absent as the lead singer on 45 releases since "Do It Again" in '68); and--and--well, it more energy and focus than most of the other oldies and all of the new stuff. However, I can still remember hearing it for the first time...and shaking my head.

As noted by HeyJude, it was a hit only because of the relentless hype--and, oddly enough, due to the lingering effects of the bicentennial year phenomenon. That "All-American" thing got attached to the BBs in '76, and gave them an added boost...because, frankly, they frittered away a good bit of the momentum that had built up in 1974-75 by not generating new material that could exploit that spike in popularity.

To be fair, it was a very tricky problem, and I'm not sure anyone could have threaded the needle. But not taking a stab  with new material in '75 forced them to pretty much acquiesce to a direction that crippled them for the rest of their career.

Since we're on the topic of missed commercial/artistic opportunities, I think the biggest misstep was trying to be "hip" in the early '70s. There are elements of Wild Honey and Friends that are kind of "progressive bubblegum" ... and this is my favorite era.

I think finishing and releasing "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" and "Seasons in the Sun" would have brought them into a Partridge Family-type scene on a commercial level. They clearly were not interested as a group, but I believe that would have been a direction Brian might have been more comfortable heading in (there’s that quote where he says “Break Away” was a tribute to the Monkees!) ... we might have heard more BW originals during this time (such as "Games Two Can Play" and "Good Time"). Sunflower was kind of a transition/combo of the "progressive" group and the Friends-era band.

That's interesting to speculate on. It does seem they were venturing into this territory, but were maybe afraid of being thought of as even MORE square by doing so.

I wonder what Brian thought about the success that a band like Carpenters had around this time.

The idea of kind of "mature bubblegum pop" sort of stuff is interesting.

I think there are some old posts from Howie Edelson where he speaks well to how the BBs could have targeted the sort of "Happy Together" type of music genre back in 1967 to stay in the charts, and there are moments where of course things like "Wild Honey" veer into this area. But I think that would have needed to be cultivated well before 1975.

I also think, had they gone for some sort of 70s advanced-bubblegum sound with "Soulful...." in 1975, it would have still required some re-recording.

I have no idea whether this list supports or undercuts the idea that the BBs could have had a hit with a known existing song in 1975, but here's a link to the 1975 year-end Hot 100 singles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1975

There actually are some "older" acts in that list, and you do see stuff like Frankie Valli's "My Eyes Adored You" near the top. So who knows?

I mean, in retrospect and not caring how many hits they scored, I would always prefer the band to follow some sort of muse rather than trying too hard to pander just to get a hit. But you look at a list like that, and it doesn't seem too crazy that we could have seen some sort of BB track on that list.

There could have been a few possible singles. Good Timin' was there It's OK was from 74/75 as well.  Rainbows by Dennis and California Feelin'

Yeh, it's kind of a fascinating topic and era (late '60s-early '70s). To me, it seems there were competing interests in the group. Brian seemed be writing songs and making recordings the same as he always did -- "Mt. Vernon & Fairway" and "Funky Pretty" still have that sort of quirky pop feel as late as 1972. And the Spring album does too (speaking of the Carpenters ...). Carl and Dennis seemed to form an axis around this time of a more soul-based, heavier sound (later including Blondie and Ricky). Dennis of course was also doing his own more moody work. Then you have Al and Mike on an TM kick, with a more mellow, spiritual sound. Bruce was obviously lost in the midst of these dynamics.

Honestly, Brian seemed like he got sidelined around the time of 20/20. I believe if BW were in charge of all of the records from this era, we'd have tons of records like Friends and Love You. I'd guess they would have become quite bizarre by 1973 or so. This is not to say he was interested in or willing to take charge of the records. But if the group were behind him, and following his initiative ... I don't see why they couldn't have made every album mostly BW songs and at least co-productions. But it was also an era of the flowering of the other (significant) talents within the group. And I think the beginning of the band losing faith in his ability to deliver what was expected of him.

Warner Brothers seemed to be caught between "We want Brian Wilson songs" and "OH, wait ... those are Brian Wilson songs?!? Do you have anything more contemporary?" :)

Funny thing is when Brian finally delivered some tracks reminiscent of Pet Sounds ("Still I Dream Of It" and "It's Over Now"), Warners rejected the record, and the group didn't seem to be behind it either.

Really don't see any of the songs mentioned here being viable singles in '75. Pretty sure "Good Timing" wasn't finished, there were more vocals added and some suggest that the backing track was reworked/stripped down for inclusion on BBLA. (Whatever the actual facts are, it sure doesn't seem that anyone felt ready to go forward with it in that time frame.) It's also not 100% clear that "It's OK" was finished in '75--AGD disses the June '76 session listing, but there is some evidence that the track was tweaked then for use as a single. Assuming they were actually ready in '75, they both ran (and, indeed, still do run) the risk of being seen as lightweight knockoffs of a bygone era.

And let's call it for what is, OK--"Rock'n'Roll Music" was their way of getting back on the charts. It fits the type of scenario HeyJude was referencing. As I said, their time came around, they took the surest bet, the adulation in 74-75 scored them a #5 hit with a creaky cover. Their time came around again in 1988. It was probably due again in 2000, but Carl was no longer there to bring off a chorus that nailed the "sweet spot" in the audience. In 2012 they pieced together a nice little track that credibly referenced "Kiss Me Baby" with some tasty recycled guitar and a bass line that brought it all back home.

The Boys were victims of the times--their harmony sound was appropriated by the "counterculture"--CSNY--and was further morphed into incredibly successful pop harmony--the Carpenters. The bubblegum groups were all stealing from them in terms of vocal arrangement. Their influence was huge at this time despite the fact that they weren't selling lots of records. There was no place of grace for them until they (wisely, despite the disrespect to Brian's wishes) went back and finished a version of "Surf's Up." They had to find a way to reclaim their place in the artistic pantheon of rock, because they were commercial dinosaurs. 

SURF's UP (the LP) accomplished that feat--it gave them access to FM. At that point it made sense to branch out and meld their sound with the predilections of the early 70s, but they probably rushed CATP out into the marketplace. But the logical single--"Marcella"--was considered just enough "retro" to get passed over. And "Mess of Help" was too different and was a "headphone" song rather than a "radio" song. "Marcella" got a good bit of pre-release hype--as early as December '71 rock writers who'd gotten a listen while visiting the studio were ga-ga over it. (That said, Murry should've sneaked in and raised it a half-tone and the tempo would've been just about right.)

One of the remaining mysteries in this area is why the band--with Rieley still in the manager's seat--did not try to get Dennis' intended SURF's UP tracks onto CATP. Imagine a sequence such as:

Mess of Help--Here She Comes-He Come Down-Marcella/4th of July-Hold on Dear Brother-All This Is That-WIBNTLA

The LP is more unified stylistically without all those strings; there's a poignant "protest" song that kicks off a more reflective side, and ends on a high note. It would likely have sat much better with the critics and the record-buying public, who were a good bit more tribal in those days.

HOLLAND was a solid effort, just needed a single. I think the mix of "SOS" is subpar, the guitar is way too low--you can hear how much more kickass it was in the backing track available on the HAWTHORNE set. Probably also difficult to have a big hit with Blondie singing lead in '72--even the "hip" audience wasn't quite ready for that. Carl was probably the best bet, but it seems as though he thought he had too many lead vocals on the LP already.

If somehow "SOS" is a Top 20 hit, does that in itself change some of the dynamics in the band? Does Brian get a boost? Does any of that affect the management situation (but we got the sense that both sides were wearing out each other's welcome)? Would Blondie have stayed longer (no Steve Love to clash with as manager)? Clearly we'll never know. But "SOS" as a Top 20 hit doesn't address the creative division of labor issue in the band at the time--and it would still serve as a reminder that you needed Brian to have a hit.

It just wasn't a simple situation. And Dennis didn't make it easy for anyone in the band to take him seriously as "the leader" despite his songwriting talent. Brian was a mess. The Wilsons and the "meditators" were at odds. Too many things got in the way--including the old songs, which went from being the elephant in the room to being a herd of stampeding bison.

BW had the right track of songs for a new complementary BBs album with "it's ok, good timin, and California feelin". Just his declining mental state had the horrible coincidence of "endless summer" being released.

<<As noted by HeyJude, it was a hit only because of the relentless hype>>

Hit records didn't happen because of relentless hype in 1976.  Just didn't happen.  Top 40 was audience driven and Rock & Roll Music was a hit because it was a "...great single" as Carl put it and because it sounded like a classic oldie from the band.  In 1976, Beach Boys hits like Fun Fun Fun, Surfin' USA, California Girls and Do It Again were in heavy recurrent rotation on  Top 40 radio .  On WLS Chicago, you heard a hit Beach Boys song with a Mike Love lead every hour. And they were in heavy rotation because they were requested by listeners.  Rock & Roll Music fit right in.  It shot to #5 on the billboard charts and was a radio hit because audiences loved it.  That was the mood in 1976.  It's the same reason The Beatles' Got to Get You Into My Life was a hit the same summer.  Capitol dusted off that ten year old album track and made bank.  60s nostalgia hit its peak in the summer of '76 and Rock & Roll Music was the perfect song at the perfect time. 

I agree - Rock and Roll Music SOUNDS like a Beach Boys - a classic beach Boys hit. (I don't get the hate - I like it and it sounds great - great Mike vocal, fun background vocals) and it has more punch than It's O.K.   Sure a better album would have helped them but they do blow it pretty consistently.

Are you suggesting that there was no PR for music in the 1970s?

<<Are you suggesting that there was no PR for music in the 1970s?>>

I'm not suggesting that at all.  I was responding to a comment that the only reason R&RM was a hit was due to PR and hype.  There was no amount of hype, PR, press releases or promotion that would have made a song a hit if the record didn't resonate with record buyers and radio listeners in those days.  There is no question that the hype helped... but if R&RM hadn't been a great single, it would have died.

Well, that's just a matter of personal taste. I don't think that I could comfortably say that a song is great if it happened to appeal to a sizeable amount of a specific market. But, yeah, obviously record companies must have felt that hype played a factor or they wouldn't have sunk money into it.

And to be clear, I *never* said PR and hype was the "only" reason R&R Music was a hit single. What I said is that the single's performance had "a fair amount" to do with the media blitz surrounding "15 Big Ones/Brian's Back", etc.

I think a good reason to think about whether the hype did play a pretty decent role in the single's success is that the song certainly didn't have the legs that some other hits did in terms of the song being attached to the band as a classic or standard. The band kept it in the setlist once it was a hit, but I never heard anyone screaming for "Rock and Roll Music" at concerts in the 80s or 90s or later. I always found the song one of the more tedious songs in the setlist, moreso in later years. It had some spark in the 70s and into the early 80s, but then when the band slowed it down, especially in the 90s, it was a slog to listen to and often appeared to be a slog for the band to play. That Brian and Al have rarely if ever done the song in their own shows (though Brian may add it back shortly if his recent interview is an indication) indicates as well that perhaps Mike had more of an affinity for the song than the other guys.

I will say that the C50 version of "Rock and Roll Music" improved on the late 80s and 90s versions of the song; on C50 it sounded much more hard-edged and, despite the large band, somewhat stripped-down.

Also, "resonating" with buyers isn't necessarily the same thing as being, especially in retrospect, a "great" single. There have been plenty of well-marketed, flavor-of-the-month hit singles that people ultimately (and sometimes contemporaneously) derided. Of course the record company can't literally make a song *everybody* hates a #1 hit. But marketing can be a powerful tool.

Which isn't to say the BBs were ever in that category; I don't think they ever had a hit with a "bad" song, nor do I think they ever had the record company behind them enough to take a crummy song and make it a hit. They may have tried to push some dreck on occasion, but that stuff (e.g. "Summer in Paradise") usually sunk like a rock, as did some truly great stuff. "Rock and Roll Music" might be the least interesting "hit" they had in my opinion, but even that is still a solid, enjoyable-enough track.

I feel it's too similar to Surfin' USA, perhaps that's why it was a hit: the pandering Mike Love formula worked ....

I've always had a soft spot for it, in fact it is one of of my favorite BB cover. I completely understanding why it was a hit- it sounds like the BB! I don't know they didn't out a version with the last verse. The mix they used on the album could have been much better. They also rocked it live into the early 80s'  The 90s killed it,  that slow tempo made it sound horrible.

using songs that weren't released (by the Beach Boys) on other beach Boy (or solo albums) that we know about, I think they could have released a decent album,,,something like this


Side A (Contemplative side)
1. Out in the country
2. California Feeling'
3. Awake (Brian on vocals)
4. Wouldn't be nice to live again
5. Our solution
6. Daddy Dear
7. barnyard Blues
8. Sweet Mountain (Brian Vocal)

Side B (Pop Rock Side)
1. Seasons in the sun
2. Soulful Old Man Sunshine
3. carnival/ Loop De loop
4. Can't wait too long
5. Sherry She Needs me
6. Old Man river

I always thought that it was a mistake not to have 'It's OK' as the first single off 15BO.

* it sounds more like a BB song - the background vocals are more prominent.
* the ending makes it sound like a Brian song.

I remember being disappointed by 15BO, primarily because of the determination of Brian's voice. That one thing made the 'Brian's Back' campaign a sham.