Add vocals only where lyrics are of 1960's vintage

[PhilCohen]

Might I propose a reasonable compromise over the issue of whether or not to overdub missing vocals onto the 2011 release of "The Beach Boys-Smile". I say vocals should be added(for passages/song which are incomplete and don't have vocals) only where the lyrics to be sung were written by Van Dyke Parks in the 1960's. In other words, "Holidays" stays instrumental, but DO add the missing vocal passages to "Roll Plymouth Rock"(AKA "Do You Like Worms?)

[Chris Brown]

Reasonable or not, I don't think you'll find much support around here for adding vocals of any kind.  This is Smile we're talking about - I'm all for making it as complete as possible, but not at the expense of compromising the recordings.

[JohnMill]

Might I propose a reasonable compromise over the issue of whether or not to overdub missing vocals onto the 2011 release of "The Beach Boys-Smile". I say vocals should be added(for passages/song which are incomplete and don't have vocals) only where the lyrics to be sung were written by Van Dyke Parks in the 1960's. In other words, "Holidays" stays instrumental, but DO add the missing vocal passages to "Roll Plymouth Rock"(AKA "Do You Like Worms?)

Leave that kind of rubbish to Bruce Springsteen who insists on re-recording all of his outtakes to make them sound "more commerical".  Personally since a big part of what SMiLE is about is that it's unfinished music, I don't want to hear of them adding any modern overdubs (certainly not vocals as their voices have all aged considerably since 1966) to these recordings.  

Now if for instance they find some vintage sixties vocals on an acetate somewhere that don't exist anywhere else and are able to overdub those onto an existing master of a given song then that is a different story.  There has already been a debate about the "Great Shape"/"Barnyard" vocals that exist on the Humble Harv piano demo being flown onto the respective masters of each recording.  The problem with those vocals is that general consensus is that they don't exactly fit onto the masters themselves.  However, if they find a way to do it using technology that we don't have at our disposal I wouldn't have much problem with that as long as the undubbed versions are also included on the sessions portions of the boxset.

Edit: I just wanted to add this is where BWPS becomes such an important part of the SMiLE saga.  We now have the option of having a completed presentation of the SMiLE music at our disposal if that is what we so choose to listen to.  There is no reason to modernize the original tapes with new overdubs as a version of the SMiLE music already exists with completed vocals in place whether they be vintage sixties or not.  If you want to hear "Do You Like Worms?" with Van Dyke's original lyrics for the verses...pop in BWPS.  Simple as that.

[Don_Zabu]

Unacceptable. Ridiculous. Meaningless.

[Ron]

I'm really kind of shocked that there's even an argument. 


Smile Board.  The album was abandoned in early '67.  Why would anybody want there to be anything after that on it?  I don't get the point, EVEN with stuff like surf's up or cabinessence.  It's not SMiLE. 

[Dunderhead]

Agreed I don't think anyone wants to hear Mike Love bust out his ultra nasal on Surf's Up or anything.
Even on BWPS the vocals were off...they just felt too sweet.

[JohnMill]

I'm really kind of shocked that there's even an argument. 


Smile Board.  The album was abandoned in early '67.  Why would anybody want there to be anything after that on it?  I don't get the point, EVEN with stuff like surf's up or cabinessence.  It's not SMiLE. 

I have a weird feeling that the completed vocals (even those post SMiLE) for Cabinessence will somehow find their way onto this release.  It would just be too jarring for casual listeners to hear the song without completed verses.  "Surf's Up" is another matter all together.  That could conceivably be done without adding anything post 1967,

[Dunderhead]

I'm really kind of shocked that there's even an argument. 


Smile Board.  The album was abandoned in early '67.  Why would anybody want there to be anything after that on it?  I don't get the point, EVEN with stuff like surf's up or cabinessence.  It's not SMiLE. 

I have a weird feeling that the completed vocals (even those post SMiLE) for Cabinessence will somehow find their way onto this release.  It would just be too jarring for casual listeners to hear the song without completed verses.  "Surf's Up" is another matter all together.  That could conceivably be done without adding anything post 1967,

Actually the backing track for Cabinessence is beautiful just as an instrumental. I think with the vocals on the 20/20 version some of the details get lost, especially on the tag.

[pixletwin]

Agreed I don't think anyone wants to hear Mike Love bust out his ultra nasal on Surf's Up or anything.
Even on BWPS the vocals were off...they just felt too sweet.

... and not sweet enough in some places too.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Stones also did the same thing on the "Exile on Main Street" bonus cuts.

Even if they would consider it, only Al has anything resembling his 60's voice.

It be a disaster!

And besides, Brian's already done it - taking reproductions of the music and adding his 65 year old voice.  

[Andrew G. Doe]

Might I propose a reasonable compromise over the issue of whether or not to overdub missing vocals onto the 2011 release of "The Beach Boys-Smile". I say vocals should be added(for passages/song which are incomplete and don't have vocals) only where the lyrics to be sung were written by Van Dyke Parks in the 1960's. In other words, "Holidays" stays instrumental, but DO add the missing vocal passages to "Roll Plymouth Rock"(AKA "Do You Like Worms?)

Reasonable ? Men who are either 70 or 69 adding their vocals to tracks (and possibly bvs) recorded 44 years ago ?  Remember how jarring it was in the 2000 miniseries when Brian added his current voice for a brief scene ?  Crazy idea.

[MBE]

I would hate to see any new vocals done now. Back in 1972 when the idea to first put out Smile was raised they could have done it, but Dennis and Brian never sounded as good after 1973-74 and now Dennis and Carl are dead. By the end of the seventies even Mike and Bruce couldn't have matched it. In fact even by 1972 Carl's voice had changed a lot (matured not worsened) so really only the original 66-67 voice tracks should be there.

[desmondo]

I would hate to see any new vocals done now. Back in 1972 when the idea to first put out Smile was raised they could have done it, but Dennis and Brian never sounded as good after 1973-74 and now Dennis and Carl are dead. By the end of the seventies even Mike and Bruce couldn't have matched it. In fact even by 1972 Carl's voice had changed a lot (matured not worsened) so really only the original 66-67 voice tracks should be there.

Only SMiLE 66/67 period recordings please and yes CE is fantastic with or without vocals.

I hope there will be full finished instrumentals included as I think the 66/67 tracks with the Wrecking Crew are just too powerful not to hear them in all their glory

[Cliff1000uk]

As mentioned above, if vocals are found that were recorded between the given time frame, then yes, definitely.
Anything a few years after the sessions is senseless enough, but 44 years later?

Why don't we ask Mike to change some of the lyrics too?

[hypehat]

Might as well ask this somewhere....


What does everyone reckon is the likelihood of acapella tracks? The more I think about it, we'd have some of H&V, Cabin Essence backgrounds, A hell of a lot of Vegetables stuff...

I mean, obviously there are all the H&V chants, and lots of tracks have vocals, I'm just wondering the likelihood of acapella tracks on the box....

And if they record ANYTHING new, I don't think we'd ever stop bitching about it.... Such a bad, bad, bad idea.

[Jonas]

Might as well ask this somewhere....

What does everyone reckon is the likelihood of acapella tracks? The more I think about it, we'd have some of H&V, Cabin Essence backgrounds, A hell of a lot of Vegetables stuff...

I mean, obviously there are all the H&V chants, and lots of tracks have vocals, I'm just wondering the likelihood of acapella tracks on the box....

And if they record ANYTHING new, I don't think we'd ever stop bitching about it.... Such a bad, bad, bad idea.

A capella tracks, now THIS will knock my socks off!

[Andrew G. Doe]

Might as well ask this somewhere....

What does everyone reckon is the likelihood of acapella tracks? The more I think about it, we'd have some of H&V, Cabin Essence backgrounds, A hell of a lot of Vegetables stuff...

I mean, obviously there are all the H&V chants, and lots of tracks have vocals, I'm just wondering the likelihood of acapella tracks on the box....

And if they record ANYTHING new, I don't think we'd ever stop bitching about it.... Such a bad, bad, bad idea.

From the official Capitol press release of Monday:

"... while the box set delves much deeper into the sessions, adding early song drafts, alternate takes, instrumental and vocals-only mixes, and studio chatter."

Again, I have to ask - do you guys actually read this stuff ?  

[hypehat]

I did! I was wondering what those mixes would be. I wrote that in a rush, which probably wasn't obvious apart from the fact it is poorly phrased.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I did! I was wondering what those mixes would be. I wrote that in a rush, which probably wasn't obvious apart from the fact it is poorly phrased.

I'm guessing an acapella "Mrs. O'Leary's Fire"* won't be one of them.  

[* Brian never used the 'c' word.]

[Jonas]

Oops, missed that!

[Menace Wilson]

I did! I was wondering what those mixes would be. I wrote that in a rush, which probably wasn't obvious apart from the fact it is poorly phrased.

I'm guessing an acapella "Mrs. O'Leary's Fire"* won't be one of them.  

[* Brian never used the 'c' word.]

So apparently "cow" and "fungus" are two words Bri didn't like in the Smile days. 

[Ron]

My idea (I forwarded this to Mark, and he said it was a great idea and he's going to push for it!) is to take all the endless hours of "Heroes and Villians", and use them everywhere vocals are missing.  So, Song for Children is full of it now, and also they're going to fill in Love to say Da Da with it.  Also Cabinessence is now called Cabin Essence with Heroes and Villians all the f*** over the place". 

[buddhahat]

My idea (I forwarded this to Mark, and he said it was a great idea and he's going to push for it!) is to take all the endless hours of "Heroes and Villians", and use them everywhere vocals are missing.  So, Song for Children is full of it now, and also they're going to fill in Love to say Da Da with it.  Also Cabinessence is now called Cabin Essence with Heroes and Villians all the foder over the place". 

[Wylson]

Might I propose a reasonable compromise over the issue of whether or not to overdub missing vocals onto the 2011 release of "The Beach Boys-Smile". I say vocals should be added(for passages/song which are incomplete and don't have vocals) only where the lyrics to be sung were written by Van Dyke Parks in the 1960's. In other words, "Holidays" stays instrumental, but DO add the missing vocal passages to "Roll Plymouth Rock"(AKA "Do You Like Worms?)

Reasonable ? Men who are either 70 or 69 adding their vocals to tracks (and possibly bvs) recorded 44 years ago ?  Remember how jarring it was in the 2000 miniseries when Brian added his current voice for a brief scene ?  Crazy idea.

Andrew, what are you referring to in the 2000 miniseries (confess don't know what that is)

[The Heartical Don]

My idea (I forwarded this to Mark, and he said it was a great idea and he's going to push for it!) is to take all the endless hours of "Heroes and Villians", and use them everywhere vocals are missing.  So, Song for Children is full of it now, and also they're going to fill in Love to say Da Da with it.  Also Cabinessence is now called Cabin Essence with Heroes and Villians all the foder over the place". 

He did and he does??     I forwarded to him my plan: there should be no second of silence in the concept. So interwoven throughout everything are snippets from George Fell Into His French Horn. Mark L. wrote me a cheque worthy of a sum that I'm not allowed to disclose, and he's talking Alan B. into it as we speak.

The mother set gets better by the day...