The Smiley Smile Message Board

Just gave my copy a first spin on the turntable....

Beautiful!

And - indeed - Southern California got an extra verse + a bridge. Extra verse for Morning Beat as well. Not the case for Live Let Live though (contrary to some rumours)

Oooo, and a hidden track!! goodie.... (a short and a bit different reprise of the Rollin Round Heaven All Day)


Nice gatefold cover, all lyrics on the inner sleeve.
Beatles got Apple... well, TLOS has an orange on the label, nice touch.
Seeing the credits, Bob Lizik did do his bass-parts for the album. Jimmy was replaced by Todd Sucherman already though.

And excuse me for now, but I'm going for a second spin ...



EDIT: and this is WAY BETTER than the demo's (but that's my personal opinion of course), although I must admit I had expected more of the definite version of MAD. Somehow the backing vocals were more convincing when it was played live (as in: for me it had a better emotional effect). But it's still a great song, sounds much better than the streaming audio version of a few weeks back.

Grr... Amazon hasn't even *shipped* my copy yet and here you are enjoying it, you lucky old something-or-other....     :p

I'm hoping I'll be able to pick mine up on Monday.

How could you do that?

It's not out for a while I believe

CD/DVD is released in the 1st week of September. Vinyl 2 weeks earlier. Most countries monday 18th I think, but my local seller already warned me that I could probably pick it up Friday of Saturday... which turned out to be Saturday (obviously).

Damn, I really should Invest in a turntable.

Even though I have a turntable, I was really trying to hold out...throw that all out the window now  :-D

Anyone know which stores in the US will stock the vinyl?

I'm in the same boat.  I pre-ordered from Elusive Disc and as of today it still hasn't shipped.  I guess getting it by the street date is out of the question.

When I first heard TLOS live I had my doubts about the whole project. When I heard the demos a lot of my doubts faded, but now I've heard the LP I think it's amazing. MOJO calls it a "near classic", so my hopes were high. And I am not disappointed, on the contrary, I believe it's an album with strong songs and Brian's voice is better than ever. I smiled a couple of times of some "jokes" in the music (when there's a "hum" sung, you'll hear humming). There is lots to listen to in the music itself. And very energetic. I sure hope Capitol/EMI will promote the album like it deserves.

Just out of curiosity, who is credited with writing Southern California on the album? Presumably, as it seems to be common knowledge that it's a solo Scott Bennett composition, then it is he who is credited as the composer, or is it credited to both he and Brian Wilson? Also, which lead vocals does Scott bennett take on the album? I imagine it's just the beginning to California Role as with the live performance?

Thanks

I'm at work, so I can't say for 100% certain. But I think the credits go to both BW and Bennett.

And Scott's sole lead is on the beginning of California Role (like you assumed).

Will check when I'm home.

Thanks!

Is the production credited to Brian alone?

The notion that SC is solely a Bennett composition has been going around mostly since the demos leaked out.  In reality, SC originates from a BW composition that Scott reworked and reshaped, i.e, like he did for MAD.  But still a BW composition.

AGD posted it a couple of days ago.

Music -- Wilson
Words -- Bennett

Confirmed: credits to Wilson & Bennett. (like on almost every track)




Produced and arranged by Brian Wilson
Additional production: Scott Bennett.
Orchestral arrangements: Paul von Mertens
Additional arrangements: Darian Sahanaja and Scott Bennett
Engineered by Mark Linett
Assistant engineers: Aaron Walk and Paul Smith (at Capitol) and Kevin Mills (at Henson)
Mixed by Brian Wilson, Scott Bennett and Michael Corcoran
Mastered by Bob Ludwig (at Gateway Mastering Studio's, Portland, Maine)
Mastered for vinyl by Ron McMaster (at Capitol Mastering)

Has anyone seen a copy in-store anywhere in the Netherlands yet? I've phoned Kroese and a couple of others, and none of them seem to be getting it in.

Very cool info on Ron McMaster: http://www.capitolstudios.com/index.cfm?page=mcmaster

Bob Ludwig has his own Wikipedia, so you can read more about him there.

Last Saturday King Kong Records in Leeuwarden had an extra copy.

No, that's what they want us to think. In reality it's not a clean cut, Scott did work on the music quite a bit.

buddhahat: I don't mean to pull an "AGD"  :p  but I can only say that I have discussed this with someone involved with the album.

Who the foda cares who did what?  If it's anything like the demos and live shows, it's gonna be amazing... dare I say one of BW's best solos with some parts rivaling anything he's done since "Til I Die"

I'm rollin' 'round Heaven all day until I get my copy later this week

Oooh....'sat mean that once you have your copy, you'll no longer be rollin' 'round heaven?

Touche, my friend... perhaps I should have said that I'm lost in the dark, no shades of gray, until the postman brings TLOS my way      :lol

I've been there a few weeks ago for the first time. Very cool store. Too bad almost all the stores we had like that in Brabant dissapeared in the last few years...

Tested the turntable. First time it has been on for at least 3 years. All systems go.

T-minus 48 hours or so until liftoff. (I refuse to get my hopes up that it will arrive on Tuesday).

If you don't hear Brian's major contributions musically to "Southern California," then you can't hear Brian.

Stay off of my cloud! :hat

I think a more accurate picture of 'who-did-what' might be that Brian came up with the original melody, which Scott fine-tuned. I've spoken with a few people involved with the project, and this seems the closest approximation to a rather gray subject.

PS: the credits confirmed something that I was told some time ago - for whatever reason Mark didn't mix the album. Odd...

The third mixer is apparently a Scott confidant -- plays on the Dotted Line album.

Although, I have to say -- from the samples I'm pretty pleased with the mix we did get.

I've got to say, I care who did what. The answers won't change my thoughts about the music itself, but it's always interesting (well, not always ... sometimes it can get a little too detailed for me) to know, anyway.

Good point - I guess it doesn't matter if anyone thinks Mike, and not Brian, wrote all the music, or that Nik Venet really did produce the first two albums. What is truth, said jesting Pilate, but would not wait for an answer.

And didn't Gary Usher write the music to Lonely Sea and Brian wrote the words?

I thought from the sound of the samples that are floating around that it sounded mixed differently than usual.  It's not as thick and full like Brian's stuff usually is, not that it necessarilly sounds worse or better, just different.  That would certainly explain it.  I hope Mark's not totally out of the picture, he's done a lot to preserve the beach boys sound over the years. 

Mine shipped today. I am very excited.

Scott Bennett, probably ;)

Yes I do care who did what, and unfortunately it does tend to to colour my appreciation of the music. It shouldn't matter if BW was 100 or 0% involved but it does to me. And so I have to ask the million dollar question: Is Brian involved at all with the arrangements of the songs or is that entirely down to his bandmates? Surely I would think he does makes decisions about which instruments go where, and also vocal arrangements, right, or does he just write the songs on piano and then have little to do with them after that?

Not 100% sure but I would guess Brian at least makes suggestions about the arrangements and at the very least he would at least have to give his approval like "yes I think that guitar part sounds good" or whatever. But Paul Mertens did the string and brass arrangements as far as I know.

Thanks Mikey J. I guess logic would suggest that if he wrote the songs, he'd have an interest in how they were arranged.

I'd be interested to know how they are arranged. But it won't color my appreciation. There are a lot of great musicians that give free rein(yes, that's how it should be spelled) to their musicians to come up with arrangements--not every album Wilson makes has to be as tightly controlled as, say, Pet Sounds(and even that was probably to some extent a collaborative effort, arrangement-wise.) I think if you really, really, really want Brian to be some kind of "pop Mozart", controlling everything on the record and coming up with it himself, then it matters. If you only want him to make good music...it really doesn't matter--no more than it does for lots of other great musicians.

Who says Mozart didn't have any help? But you are totally right about Pet Sounds too. Just listening to the sessions you can hear the musicians giving Brian suggestions etc.. or coming up with parts so that Brian says "okay let's try that"... for example: God Only Knows and also Sloop John B.

If you hear the TLOS demos, that would give you a basic understanding of what Brian contributed arrangement-wise, I think. Obviously they are recorded with Scott, but the two were collaborating on them -- and you can hear basslines and basic accompanying figures, etc. When the band got the demos and rehearsed, things became fuller, but most of those basic arrangement touches were preserved.

Brian has always said, for what it's worth, that he can't hear the entire arrangement in his head. He has to start recording the songs to get a better idea of how to put them together. And he has always had help -- from the 60s onward -- in that department. (What do Brian's solo arrangements sound like? Try Love You. Then, subtract the synths. Viola! You get the TLOS demos.)

I always thought that what made Mozart Mozart was that he did everything without rewrites, all his works were first drafts composed at a piano at home. As opposed to, say, Beethoven, who reworked his stuff many times.

I'll wager that if we juxtaposed the discussions surrounding the release of 'BWPS' with this one, there'd be virtually no difference...and still no definitive proof of anything clandestine.

And Mozart was dead at 35.

Any track reviews from some (one?) of you lucky snipers?

I'm supposed to be getting it today as an early birthday present, so I will act totally surprised  :lol :lol I'm getting Brian tickets today too for him to come to Philly, so I am psyched!

Little known fact:

Most of the big composers (modern day, I mean) don't do their own orchestrations. They give vague instructions to an orchestrator to flesh that stuff out. Not only that, but if a work is being recorded for the first time, often players will give the composers pointers and tips on different things. So I don't think it reflects badly on Brian if this was and is the case.

The classical composers also had conductors who would "translate" the music to the orchestra. Every classical composition has been re-arranged over the decades/centuries and yet nobody takes anything away from the composers. The works of the baroque composers in particular today sound very little like they would have when the composers were alive...the instruments have changed (particularly strings) and today NOBODY knows what the original arrangements would have been...yet we still credit Vivaldi with creating his Four Seasons.

Typically a classical piece would have all the parts written by the composer, but he might employ an arranger. And yes, the musicians would have input. Some composers would "try out" their works (often conducting themselves) and alter them depending on the reaction of the musicians and audience. Later conductors would  interpret the written music in their own way.

Never underestimate the potential influence of an orchestra's conductor...

So the question is why is it a big deal to some people if BW does not come up with every single note in a production himself? Nobody else is held to that kind of standard, IMHO.

Why bring in that instrument suddenly? Does Brian play that too?

Because they've bought and fallen in love with the idea of this crazy genius who could and did do it all, a one-man-band and production team. You know, the Boys go out on tour while Brian would write, arrange, engineer, perform, produce and mix records for them. It wasn't ever true, obviously. But it's a really enticing story. And once people are in and start realizing that he's just a really great pop musician (as opposed to a god or at least superhero), they get pissy.

Here is a review I wrote for amazon.com. It's more general then anything I would write here, but my thoughts are pretty much there. I gave it four out of five stars. One thing I should mention that I didn't in the review is that Brian really articulates his vocals quite well. He seems into the recording process alert.

First off I a big LP fan so I must comment my joy on this being released on this format first. The gatefold cover is wonderful, the special label very in tune with the rest of the artwork. The pressing is fairly quiet and the sound just jumps out at you.

Brian's production is spot on which it has been ever since he started using acoustic instruments again. The songs are well writen, better then most of his solo albums, but outside of "Midnights Another Day" cannot be directly compared to his work of 1961-72. Overall the LP is kind of theatrical, a modern rock oprea. I can honestly see this being done as a play, though like the reworkings of the Who's "Tommy" a lot of the guts would probably be lost. The spoken narrative doesn't seem needed as the songs flow nicely. Brian's voice can never recapture the beauty it had when he was in his twenties, but he seems to be able to use it's reduced range with skill now. Brian's had a great solo band since he begain to tour as a solo act and it's nice to hear him do new material with them. Scott Bennett's work holds up well against the work supplied by long time Wilson co-author Van Dyke Parks. All and all Lucky Old Sun will strongly appeal to those who enjoy Brian's work, but it remains to be seen whether it can win him new fans. With today's market more open to classic acts I think he's got a shot.

Of course. Along with the violin, cello and double bass. How else could he have string sections? He overdubs himself!

I do all my stuff!  I'm a composer, arranger, one-man-band, producer, and mastering engineer!   

It probably sux--and nobody would buy it, but I do it all!  :lol

Luther: This is an excellent point. The Peter Ames Carlin biography is great in the respect that you come to the understanding that Brian is in many essentials the same guy today as he was in the 50s, 60s, 70s ... People have a lot invested in their understanding or conception of the Brian of any particular era. But he's always required other high-caliber creative people around him, and he's always been a somewhat frustrating guy. Why couldn't he keep making hits? Why did he retreat to his room? Why did he fall under Landy's "spell"? Why were his vocals so oddly phrased? Why did he allow Melinda in? Why has he recorded 50 versions of "Proud Mary"?

These are not separate questions. These are all the same question -- "why isn't Brian doing what we want him to do?" And Brian has often stubbornly done -- or refused to do -- what folks think is best. Sometimes it's to his detriment, sometimes to his benefit.

I don't think any of this detracts from his incredible range of abilities -- for I think Brian combines talents as producer, arranger, player, songwriter and vocalist in a way that is seldom seen in pop (which lends itself to overstatement as a result. Brilliant? Yes. Music incarnate? Um ... Probably not.) His work in the 60s was without a doubt touched by genius. But he has never worked in a vacuum. And he has never claimed to. Yes, he clearly needs more help these days to create songs and recordings. But he has been canny in the last 20 years to choose to work with largely sympathetic collaborators (yes, even Joe Thomas to an extent) who have helped his music stay largely how I think he wants it to sound.

I just listened to a needledrop rip.

Midnight's Another Day is a very good song. Live Let Live, Going Home and Southern California are ok.

Got it yesterday. Pretty ambitious for Brian these days, and I'm happy it came out.

The bad points for me -- some of the nostalgic lyrics sound hokey, albeit less so than, say, MIU or one of Mike Love's hokey throwback lyrics. Actually, I'm wrong. These throwback lyrics are a lot more nuanced and introspective than a Mike Love one. The interlude poetry readings sound uninspired as read by Wilson. I love Van Dyke's voice now, and think it would have sounded so much better if he'd read them himself. The mix -- Brian's voice is mixed too prominently in some parts, the drums are way to friggin' loud and the bass sounds almost non-existent in the mix. As for the songs themselves... all nice, but mostly forgettable melodies. Outside of "Lucky Old Sun" (which is a classic composition), "Can't Wait Too Long," "Live Let Live" and "Midnight's Another Day," a lot of these songs are just pleasant, but forgettable. I also wish some of the other members of the band would get to sing some lead parts. Scott sounded great in the few isolated lead parts that he sang. Why does Brian have to sing all the leads?

The good, for me, is that the whole thing is actually listenable, unlike Imagination or GIOMH. I put it on today, with a pillow and blanket on the floor, and the fan blowing on me, and didn't look at the lyrics or obsess over the packaging, and the whole thing washed over me. It is quite beautiful, taken as a whole, and even if Brian slurs the words a bit, or his voice isn't that great anymore... it sounds really cohesive and fresh. I also really like the gentleness of "Southern California." It's not the greatest melody in the world, and I can't remember the melody beyond the first few lines of the song, but it's still somehow tender and a great way to close Brian's most ambitious solo album yet. Not including the live stuff or the re-recordings with Don Was or Smile... I'd say That Lucky Old Sun ranks right after the 1988 solo album, and probably equal with Orange Crate Art, IMHO.

I find the songs quite strong, really. Surprisingly strong, and with little recycling. But different strokes, I 'spose. These are mostly not what I would consider big, pounding charismatic songs (Goin' Home magnificently excepted). They are somewhat gentler in tone and character.

What happen to your longer post, Clay? It was really good.

I only say that, if it weren't for me being a big Brian Wilson fan, I'm not sure how much I'd be into the album. That said, it's a good song-suite of his various styles, and I can't help but think that if people like Joanna Newsom or Michael Penn sang on the album, it'd be a completely different story. I think Scott and Brian's band have a lot to be proud of though. Sorry to keep doing the "if only"... "but it's good" thing. Sort of my weird way of weighing an album these days.

Hmm now brianc made me want to rank it. I will only do released solo work. LOS is easily the best collection of new(ish) songs Brian has presented solo. The vocals are expressive (if somewhat wild in places), the music has a nice flow, there isn't anything truly bad on it.

There are individual tracks on the 1988 album that are better, but the production and several weak cuts (Walkin The Line, Night Time), make it less of a whole.

Of the collections of old songs live and/or studio only Smile is more essential.

I never liked Orange Crate Art much, but I do see a connection theme wise. I don't feel much of Brian on OCA and too much is clever for clever's sake. The music on LOS is also much more rock influenced and for me that isn't a bad thing.  

Imagination has the best sounding vocals, but worst production and few songs worth hearing twice.

GIOMH isn't as bad to me as some make it. The production is solid, and I don't think the singing is as bad as his early ninties or Love You era work. What's wrong with it is (using the 2 LP version) that there is one side of good stuff, two side of average stuff, and a side of pure fluff.
The Xmas is fun, well produced etc, but limted by it's subject matter and amount of covers.

So all in all I think LOS is Brian's best release outside of Smile. Yes it's very theatrical and sometimes corny, but the songs and performances are there.

That's kind of an odd statement, first in that I wonder why you chose those two people, and second, in that I wonder how you mean? I think certainly this album would be out of place coming out as it is without an old-timer's name on it. The nostalgia struck me right away (and I'm sure you can dig up the posts if you want) as a little much--and a little creepy in fact--and I still feel that way. So of course someone who's in her 20s, like Newsom, couldn't be a part of it. (Never mind that her music sounds nothing like this.) But Penn ... if the words weren't so blatantly "look, I'm Brian, I used to be sick but I'm ok here in CA," it could be from that kind of artist. I think the biggest problem with this album for me--and for me means we're talking about my problems, not necessarily anyone else's or even the album's--is that it was an attempt to make pop songs into a serious piece of "art with a capital A." Pop is already high art: if you make pop songs, make pop songs. There was no reason to link it all together, even though it works in places pretty well. Regardless, my opinion is that it's the best non-Smile BW solo album. And that means it's the best Brian Wilson album of (generally) original material. I'm still absorbing it and will continue to, and I have no doubt my specific opinions will shift over time. But I'm very impressed with the band's work.

We know the references, but they could be about any man's journey. Michael Penn is in his forties. I chose him, because he's one of a handful of L.A. pop artists that sort of carries a cryptic pop lyric. Newsom too. Her slice-of-life lyrics aren't all that different from Brian's "Love You"-type lyrics. Childish yet insightful, and slightly tragic. I didn't have any specific piece in mind, jsut a notion of those kinds of artists that are pop, folk and psychedelic, while at the same time being distinctly sub-culture, and not necessarily mainstream. Then again, Brian has some unique singers in his band that could have carried some of these lyrics themselves. Darian and Nick would be the only ones I'd immediately qualify as being part of sub-culture, but the others seem to be developing more. Maybe I'm wrong there.

Honestly, I am still a little curious as to your point, as to if it were someone else singing, would that be a good thing or a bad thing to you? Are you saying that the music isn't strong enough that if it were coming from a non-legend, we'd dismiss it? Or that you'd prefer it to come from someone else? (I may well be dense at the moment, if not always. I certainly am drunk at the moment, if not always.)

Any comments on the actual sound quality of the vinyl?  How's the pressing?

Luther,

I think the songs might have had more variety, and more legs, if in the hands of singers that have a little more vibrancy, at the moment. So I think it would make it better. But again, it's an ambitious project that I'm sort of digging around for mentally, why it didn't fully jibe for me. But it might just be my taste, or that I'm too cynical.

The sound quality is warm, as always. My speakers are really solid, so listening to vinyl or CDs on them are perfectly fine. I can't pick up anything that would make me feel like I was in the room, like I do with my 45 of "Penetration" by the Pyramids. But it's a good sounding vinyl slab.

I have been listening on two turntables (no microphone ;-) - a vintage Technics hooked up to my bedroom commercial stereo, and an ION USB hooked up to my recording studio monitors. In both cases, the pressing sounds excellent - it would have been nice for it to come on 2 disc virgin vinyl as was rumored, but for a 1 disc 180 gram release, it doesn't get much better than this - even on my cheaper turntable, it sounds gorgeous, low-noise, low-pops and clicks.

Also, the mastering is much better than the CD is likely to be - usually the CD releases are compressed to hell in the mastering process, although SMiLe had decent CD mastering... the SMiLe 180 gram vinyl sounds better to me...

Only thing better would be DVD-Audio high-res 5.1 versions! Too bad the labels don't put those out anymore (excepting certain artists who are 5.1 fanatics, like REM)

As far as the singer's proficiency - sure, it's Brian with his latter-day voice, but it sounds like he has REALLY grown into it. I had the demos and was not expecting a miracle from release, but surprise surprise - he seems newly comfortable, and he delivers an incredibly rocking vocal for "Going Home," growling all the way. EXCELLENT.

It's funny that you guys bring up the issue of whether this would be as good with an 'unknown' singer - Scott Bennett clearly has a 'better' (less weathered, more range) voice than Brian - but his demo of "Southern California" just doesn't have the verve and feel that this version does. I still love the vocals he contributes, and it's great that he was so instrumental in making this album - I agree with the earlier post comparing this to "Love You" with fewer synths and a more SMiLe-esque production.

The mix is MUCH better than anything BW has done in his solo career, and even better (to me) than SMiLe, which did have a great mix as well. It sounds very clear and three-dimensional, but warm and timeless. Thank Jeebus it doesn't have the quasi-mono GIOMH sound.

Brian's best Solo release, for my money. Can't stop listening - and it destroys the demos in arrangements, instrumentation, vocals, and.... just about every way. I LOVE BW's vocals!

BrianC: I actually edited down my longer post because I worried it was too defensive, and I don't want to say other people have to feel the way I do, or that they're wrong if they don't. Particularly on a subject as subjective as "catchiness." After all, a song can be "catchy" in many ways -- I can remember a lot of Bob Dylan songs, but not many of them have distinctive melodies. It's the lyrics, delivery, arrangement, riffs, etc., that make them stick in your head.

But since you asked -- I just listed out the songs and what about them appealed to me melodically, hook-wise and otherwise. I like a lot of what is going on. In some cases, the songs are quite dense with hooks -- there is stuff going on in the melody, arrangement and playing all at the same time.

Morning Beat -- A strong, funky riff underlies the song, and a pictorial bridge catches the ear.

Good Kind of Love -- An old fashioned pop tune, with two choruses for the price of one.

Forever My Surfer Girl --Intriguing harmonic twists and turns, all in a surprisingly sophisticated song. A touch of Bacharach here.

Live Let Live -- Nothing else need be said. Yes, it's a cousin to Sail on Sailor, but that's a great song to be a cousin to. The "heartbeat" chorus is one of my favorite modern Brian moments.

Mexican Girl -- Controversial among fans, but I like the spirit of the thing. It's something so dorky it could only come from BW. The chorus perhaps falls a bit flat, but the studio recording peps it up.

California Role -- A pastiche of sorts, but an appealing one. It also nicely incorporates the 'roll round heaven' refrain. An ironic song of sorts -- in 1967 "Good Virbrations" lost the record of the year Grammy to the old-timey "Winchester Cathedral." 40 years later, Brian finally gets around to having a megaphone lead vocal in one of his songs.

Oxygen to the Brain -- Aural crack. Perhaps the catchiest song on the record, and shamefully overlooked because of the familiar subject matter. Several pure Brian moments here.

Midnight's Another Day -- The most noted song on the album, and certainly the most dramatic. The performance, lyrics and arrangement are nearly perfect. The melody itself isn't catchy per se, but the melody isn't the point.  It's all about the buildup and release of emotional tension. I ultimately wonder if it's overpraised. Not because it's bad -- it's excellent -- but because all the kudos can obscure other strong songs here.

Goin' Home -- The return of the indelible Shortnin' Bread riff. Again, a song with two choruses -- the second being the most frequently quoted of the album.

Southern California -- First you had Love and Mercy. Then you had Your Imagination. Now we have this tune. All related, but the addition of the bridge has made me a believer.

All the songs are about a nostalgia trip in california.  If you throw away Brian's 66 year old voice, you throw away the nostalgia.  He might not win any new fans, but I'm tickled pink about the way he sounds on this.  

Not to single out your posting, more sort of a general comment... but it does amaze me somehow how fans can make "easily the best album of new stuff from Brian in thirty years" sound like faint praise.  :-)

Cheers,
Jon Blum
(Forty years if you don't rate Love You...)

Thanks for reposting your comments claymcc. I found them interesting and very much like my own feelings for this disc. I will be writing a full review for my website (it is a university sports site, but I occasionally write music reviews for it), and once it is written I will post a link in case anyone is interested.

Honestly, I love this album. Can't get enough of it.

Well I make no bones about the fact that everything Brian did before 1975 is better to me. Mainly because of his voice, but it's also a bit more consistent. Still I think this is a great album by most standards, and do my best not to let the imposing shadow of his earlier stuff get in the way of me liking it. Funny that I mention consistency because this (outside of Smile) is the most consistent LP he has worked on since Holland. So actually my praise isn't faint, just slightly measured because he was beyond good to me at one time.

I'm really not particularly keen on the run of songs that goes from Good Kind of Love through to California Role. Those all sound a bit bland to me and it's unfortunate that there all bunched together as it means the more I listen to this, the more I'll be inclined to skip this entire section. Outside of that, I think side 2 is fantastic. MAD and Going Home are vintage BW compositions to my ears, I really like Southern California and Oxygen To the Brain sounds like it could belong on Adult Child, which is no bad thing. Personally though I'd take BW88 over TLOS, for the quality of the songwriting, which ultimately is the most important thing for me. I agree, the unity of this and the arrangements are impressive though.

Side 2 is really different, the songs are longer and more ornate.   I like Side 1 though, it reminds me of Abbey Road.  Meaning that Brian took a quirky set of songs and with his production acumen was able to make it flow as a whole. 

Vocally, Brian sounds perfunctory, at best. Lyrically, it's pretty surface. I could have written better lyrics about L.A. in a second. I mean, I remember when my friend told me about the press-conference that BW did at the Capitol Tower... someone asked him why he wanted to do an album about Los Angeles, and he dribbled out a quickie, "I don't know." [Next question.]

I mean, jeeze. It's not slike some great evocation on Los Angeles or California. There's zero soul to these lyrics. If the melodies were mined from some past BW demos, that's cool. The arrangements sound good. The melodies are fine. But the whole thing sounds uninspired. It makes me pine for the Love You/Adult Child era.

You seemed to like it a lot more the other day especally the vocals.

Okay... go.  *checks stopwatch*

I think, as happens so often in fan sites regardless of their subject, familiarity breeds contempt...  people get so used to the sort of material under discussion that the bar for acceptance gets raised unseemingly high.  As someone who hasn't immersed himself in the canon of Literature About LA to the extent it sounds like you have, I found the lyrics and readings nicely evocative.  Not revelatory, but then it doesn't need to be to be worthwhile...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I got my Vinyl today, my local Tower Records here in Ireland only had 2 of 10 copies left after two days.

Sadly I don't have a turntable, so I might frame it or something.

You could, um, of course, um, send it to me.

You could, um, send him a turntable as well though....   ::)

 ;D ;D ;D I can't top that... priceless!!

As the Don i'm sure you will get your hands on one!!  ::)

I think, as happens so often in fan sites regardless of their subject, familiarity breeds contempt...  people get so used to the sort of material under discussion that the bar for acceptance gets raised unseemingly high.  As someone who hasn't immersed himself in the canon of Literature About LA to the extent it sounds like you have, I found the lyrics and readings nicely evocative.  Not revelatory, but then it doesn't need to be to be worthwhile...

Brian's lived in this city for 66 years, and I thought, "Is this all he has to say about it?"

That's interesting because to me, I don't really care what he says about LA. I've never lived there or even been there but that doesn't affect how I hear bands from LA. I respect your opinion, but it does strike me as a bit bizarre that an album should be judged harshly because it fails to capture the essence of LA.

Give the man a break, he was never much of a master with the pen, even though he did have some real momens of inspiration..'this whole world' and 'surfer girl' for example.

But did you really expect some vivid poetic images of suburban LA life from a 66 year old man with Brian's history.

Hey at least he's not releasing songs like 'Nod your head'

TLOS is a masterpeice in my view.

I think inasmuch as the album is about LA (and as noted below that's debatable), it's about what Van Dyke Parks thinks about LA.

Only three of the 10 original songs deal with the city or region -- Morning Beat, California Role and Southern California. The first could be about any city, with some lyrical revision. And the last is more about Brian than the region.

The songs themselves are generally about Brian Wilson-type topics. Health, exercise, love, fear, music, night and day. You can arrange them nicely into a morning-to-night sequence (and it's suggested by the songs themselves and by Brian taking up TLOS as a tune) but none of that is LA-based.

But when Scott, Darian and Van Dyke began to flesh out the concept, the LA stuff came into play. The narratives are all specifically about LA, but they're also all specifically Van Dyke's work.

I think the key to the city-specific nature of the album (or lack thereof) comes in those final lyrics of "Southern California," though. "When you wake up here / You wake up everywhere." It's the notion of California as the promised land -- as an Eden. The specifics actually make this rosy view less compelling. Think of other BW songs -- "I wish they all could be California Girls" (A song about California that actually is about everywhere else.) "Catch a Wave and you're sitting on top of the world" (a regional activity transformed into a global view).

No, but it might be released as a bonus track on the Australian release of TLOS!
 ;D

Only three of the 10 original songs deal with the city or region particularly -- Morning Beat, California Role and Southern California. The first could be about any city, with some lyrical revision. And the last is more about Brian than the region.

First off, "Mexican Girl" is about as in-crowd as Jar-Jar Binks was to the reggae contingent. The other SoCal stuff is all nice and fluffy... a few steps up from "Kona Coast." Van Dyke's poems are fine, in terms of the words. I like the last one a lot. But they are read with the vibrancy of a man asleep. It's the best solo album he's done since Orange Crate Art. But that isn't saying much. I listened to the latter yesterday and felt genuinely excited and moved by it. With the exception of "Midnight's Another Day," this new one makes me feel pretty much nothing. But that's just me. I'm one person, and entitled to my opinion. I'm glad so many are getting something out of it. Brian undertook something ambitious, and it's cool that so many are getting so much out of it. I just have little desire to put it on, so it's been sitting on my shelf since the first few spins.

It's all good.

It's interesting -- I should theoretically be more annoyed by the bolting on of a concept album framework to a nice new batch of Brian Wilson songs. But Darian is one smart cookie, and he managed to make the songs sound better for the context rather than worse, which could be the case in such a situation.

Sadly, I think the good reviews that the album has been getting -- and will get -- are more about the sequencing (hey, this kinda sounds a little Smile-like) than the songs. Which is a shame, because I think the songs are good. But there wouldn't be a buzz about a Brian Wilson album that just contained 3-minute songs.

Never know. It could grow on this old crab, as the years go by.

Hi everybody - this is my first post here and I thought TLOS was as good a place to jump in as any...

I absolutely love the album.  It's not perfect, but considering all that Brian has done in his career, even a "perfect" album would be criticized by some... expectations can just be so darned high...

To think back on 1982 when many of us thought Brian was not long for this world, and then to think that we have SMILE and TLOS this decade from the 66-year old Brian is, well... perfect...

Hi, Andrew - how goes it???

But did you really expect some vivid poetic images of suburban LA life from a 66 year old man with Brian's history.

I don't know about suburban. Or even poetic. But vivid? Yes. Something from the soul. These postcards of surface L.A. never get beneath, well... the surface.

As soon as I start reading that somebody thinks TLOS is about LA or they start comparing or relating TLOS to OCA I stop reading because it's obvious to me they just don't get it.

I have personally never understood why anyone compares any Brian Wilson album to OCA. (And I say this as someone who bought the album the year it came out and listened to it a lot.)

OCA, as excellent as it is, is not a Brian Wilson album. He doesn't write, arrange or produce any material on it. It's like having Paul McCartney sing an album of new Tom Waits material -- interesting, but it wouldn't tell you much about Paul. It is a Van Dyke album with Brian vocals -- and honestly, if you listen to Moonlighting, Van Dyke's vocals fit the songs better.

Van Dyke does have a role with this album, of course, but it's not his creation.

My my - one of the old guard !

Yo Marty, how's life with you ?  :-D

Aw c'mon, that's like faulting "Abbey Road" cause "Her Majesty" is a throwaway.  :-)  (Plus, if you look, that last verse ties up the themes of the whole damn album...)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Hey, Andrew, I'm fine, thanks... I decided I should start to post since I've never stopped following Brian, plus this is a nice board... well, I gotta go, I've got to finish my next issue of CTN (due out in '83, I believe)...

Yikes, I thought I liked TLOS, until I read this thread!

Seriously, everyone's entitled to an opinion, and here's mine. It's terrific. Brian C mentioned just letting it wash over him, and I think that's really how BW's work is meant to be experienced. To pick apart the lyrics doesn't seem fair-- with some exceptions, BW is not known for his lyrics. Besides, Scott wrote a lot of the lyrics, but somehow this is becoming yet something else that must be a sign of how Brian isn't as good as he used to be.  I mean, "I love the colorful clothes she wears" isn't exactly brilliant and profound, but that doesn't take away from the feeling you get when you listen to GV, does it? Of course not, since it was written in BW's heyday.

I actually thought the lyrics were quite good. I felt that I could tell where Brian contributed, like "They have the right kinda thing," is so Brian, and where Scott was not trying to emulate Brian's lyrics but keep the style straightforward, as Brian would talk now. Brian may be deep or may not be deep, but he sure doesn't express himself on a "deep" way. It might have been a little strange to hear him sing a profound statement about the history of CA and his role in it. Leave that to VDP.

As far as the music goes, I love it. Surprise, surprise. It has many of Brian's hallmarks. Oxygen to the Brain has been criticized, and I dont' know why. It's got the tempo changes, the unexpected changes in the melody, and the theme of resurrection that Brian has revisited so many times. California Role is nostalgic, melody-wise, just like Saturday Morning in the City, and it fits with an album that uses a 1940s song as its backbone-- and it fits with the Hollywood theme. I think both of them have killer melodies, as do Good Kind of Love and Live Let Live. And oh! Brian's new material is autobiographical. Is that a shock? Most of his material is autobiographical to some extent.

I think it's possible to overanalyze something to the point where it seems to lose value, like saying a word over and over again until it makes no sense. I also think that as much as Brian is the subject of a bit too much hero-worship, he's also the subject of too much criticism. If you don't like the songs, he wrote them. If you do, they're the work of his band. If his voice sounds better than on the last few albums it's still not as good as it was in 1966. If Brian is collaborating with others it must mean he can't work alone, and if he does a wall of Brians or takes all the leads he really should rely more on his band.

I'd give the album four out of five. No, it's not Pet Sounds or Smile. But it's creative and fresh and enjoyable, and it easily matches or exceeds what Brian's contemporaries are releasing.

CLAP! CLAP! CLAP!

A standing ovation for Amy .... she gets it!

And one paragrapher should be rendered in stone and placed on the home page of every Brian Wilson and Beach Boys website:

"I think it's possible to overanalyze something to the point where it seems to lose value, like saying a word over and over again until it makes no sense. I also think that as much as Brian is the subject of a bit too much hero-worship, he's also the subject of too much criticism. If you don't like the songs, he wrote them. If you do, they're the work of his band. If his voice sounds better than on the last few albums it's still not as good as it was in 1966. If Brian is collaborating with others it must mean he can't work alone, and if he does a wall of Brians or takes all the leads he really should rely more on his band."

As criticial as I have been concerning Brian's solo career and the circumstances/environment around him and his "people"....I freakin' love TLOS. I personally feel it's the best BB/BW since Holland, POB excepted. Definitely his best vocals since the glory days, that's for sure. His voice may be fading, but he's singing with feeling for the first time since...hell I don't know.

That's just it -- it's not trying to be "all he has to say about it".  Just something he's saying.  This album's no more trying to be the definitive Statement About LA than "Shut Down" is all he has to say about cars.  I really think the ambition of the songs lie elsewhere...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

What Amy said. This album is "creative, fresh and enjoyable". The songs do somehow mesh together into what is effectively a concept album, and so often with concept albums the concept kills the music...but not with TLOS. Because the songs were mostly there before the concept was added, and it wasn't laid on thick...it was quite carefully sewn in by altering lyrics and by Van Dyke's exquisite word-play poems.

As for Brian's rendition of the narratives, I think he does a good job. He doesn't slur his speech like he so often has in the last twenty years, and I don't get the impression that he hasn't a clue what VDP's words mean. Despite the fact that the vague LA concept was probably not his idea, he seems to be enthused by it and there's an energy on this LP in his vocals that certainly wasn't there on most of GIOMH and even SMiLE sometimes struggles to equal.

If we accept the likely situation that Brian will sing rather lackluster vocals when he's not interested in a project, but that he can still deliver the goods when he's fired up....then one comes to the conclusion that TLOS was a good experience for him.

Am still not convinced I like what Brian is doing on "Going Home", but then I loved the live premiere of that so much any new recorded version will take a few spins to get used to.

No Mark Linett...hmm...interesting...because Mark knows Brian and his work and techniques so well....but the LP doesn't seem to suffer. Dare I think that Brian actually took control of recording and mixing this? The BBC documentary on Monday night did say that during SMiLE, Brian got himself up to date and familiar with modern recording technology, what's possible and how it all works.....is this perhaps the result? Or did his co-conspiritors just happen to work well with Brian....as well as Mark does?

Mark was there. He's mentioned in the credits as engineer.

Argos in dublin had a great deal on a bush turntable for 40 euro last week. maybe still do

What is that last little bit on the album after Southern California? I love it - it reminds me of something from Fairy tale Music. I guess it's just a variation on the TLOS theme but you almost wish it'd been worked up into a song.

wow, I thought turntables went for hundreds these days because there rare or something.

I'll definitely look into that.

I've said it before on the subject of concepts, and I'll say it again. One of the reason TLOS works is that a basic germ of the concept is implicit in the songs. It's already there.

Think about it. You have Brian working up a batch of tunes that are about the morning (Morning Beat, Oxygen) and the night (Midnight's Another Day, Goin' Home). He also happens to be playing an old standard called "That Lucky Old Sun." It's not a stretch at all to put two and two together and say hey -- let's make this album about the journey of the sun across the sky from morning to night.

Brian had also come up with the title "Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl," so a nostalgic element came into play. That meant that the "day" of the album could also be interpreted as Brian's life -- from start, through rough times, into a rocking dotage.

The final bit is the addition of the stuff about California and LA. It might not have been Brian's idea, but it's certainly something he's familiar with -- and has sung about many times before. So you just locate the sun's journey in Hollywoodland. Have Van Dyke write some narratives, tweak some lyrics -- voila!

when they did it live over here last year, they did this little bit during the first set as a taster. It's also worked into one of the songs of TLOS.

There are currently over one hundred manufacturers of turntables. They range from el cheapo "retro looking record player with built in CD player" via cheap add-ons for mini systems up to models costing many thousands....something for every pocket.

I've no idea how good or bad the ION USB turntable is....personally I find it no hassle to hook the "tape out" from my amp into the PC....I mean....its really difficult.....one plug  :lol

I had occasion to floor my teenage nieces recently by playing them some Queen from vinyl. They were familiar with the music, but had never heard vinyl before...

I just had a random thought reading a post above.

TLOS....if anything the concept is as much nostalgia as much as it is LA. And as such it will have a positive emotional effect on anyone who tends to be nostalgic.



"Brian Wilson invites you to find the heartbeat in LA"

I was going to wait until the 2nd, but couldnt help myself and had a couple of listens to the streaming version - Wow, let's face it, this is a really good album! I cant find anything really wrong with it and even the weakest song (Mexican Girl seems to be the consensus) is still very enjoyable.

The concept, as has been discussed, really works - the Nostalgia, Americana, Brians life story, whatever you want to read into it - to me, this album sits very nicely with SMiLE, Song Cycle, Orange Crate Art - definitely Brians wheelhouse! there's endless debate about how much is Wilson/Bennett/Darian whatever - lets face it Brian always had been better with some quality support - Asher, Van Dyke, the wrecking crew, Mike Love, Paley t's true here, he has the support and musicianship available to him that he needs. I love some of the unexpected progressions/arrangements - to me, the chord voicings are classic Wilson (I remember reading how he likes just to make interesting shapes with his hands on the Piano and whatever chord that happens to be!)

Vocally very nice, I think Brian has made  real effort with his vocals from SMiLE/Christmas Album/TLOS (not so much with GIOMH, unfortunately) and the band vocals are as usual very good.

I think that most of us agree that anything BW does is more than we would expect at this stage, but with the output that he has come up with this past few years, Brians 60's may rival his 20's

You go Brian, nice job and thank you!

btw, does anyone else expect to hear "yummy carrot cookies are an organic treat" in "Oxygen to the Brain"?

anyway, as usual, the rare occasion that I post it turns out random and rambling, but I just had a great afternoon listening to TLOS while painting my house on a sunny afternoon in Maine!

I think that is probably true. I know I can be a sentimental boob sometime and I can see how that would color my enjoyment of TLOS and vice versa if someone wasn't given to that sort of thing how they may not take the same level of enjoyment.

It's "Yummy carob cookies"

Carob is a nondairy, organic chocolate substitute.

I'm puzzled on the last part of this lyric in "California Role"

"The best part of this -something- trip just might be the ride"

?

"The best part of this L.A. trip just might be the ride"

Now then, what about the third verse in "Forever My Surfer Girl" which isn't printed on the sleeve?

"We'll never say goodbye, la-la-la-la-la-la??"

I thought it was "We'll never say goodbye where the horizon lies" or some such.

Yeah I guess I'd never seen a carrot cookie anyway! thanks! now I'm trying to think what song thats from anyway!! (H.E.L.P is on the way??)

Yep.

Horizon line / lines ?

Not carrot - carob. (and yes, it's from "HELP").

Not carrot - carob. (and yes, it's from "HELP").

[/quote]


Frankly, I'd rather have carrot cookies.  Carob=yuck.

Thanks AGD. I like this little bit a lot!

I, for one, am definitely glad TLOS is treated as a "concept" album if only for the remarkable segue from "Midnight's Another Day" into that slow, sad reprise of the title track, the most exquisitely heartbreaking BW moment this side of "'Til I Die".