The Smiley Smile Message Board

This photo which seemed to be new for most people seeing it showed up on Brian's Facebook yesterday, showing him with a group of Girl Scouts holding copies of "The Little Girl I Once Knew" 45rpm single:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/briangirlscoutssingle_zpsaf873494.jpg)

The Facebook tag dated this as November 1965. There was also a question posted asking at what studio this photo was taken.

If these questions have already been addressed or answered, I haven't seen the results, but apologies if what follows is repeat info.

First, I'd like to question and challenge the date posted on Facebook's caption of the photo, and ask if there is confirmation on when and where I believe the event at which this photo and meeting took place actually happened.

The Badman book, which is the only one I've had a chance to reference so far, lists a date of January 3, 1966 for a special presentation held at Capitol Records in LA where Voyle Gilmore recognized them for all of their gold-selling albums up to that point. This photo and caption is from a later issue of Billboard magazine:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianvoylegilmore1966_zpsf421b3d6.jpg)

This is a photo from Getty showing an unidentified younger man interviewing the band at this event:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianbb5167508142_zps05e7c222.jpg)

And these are more images taken from Getty showing the same gold record event at Capitol:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianbb373988996_zpsb90653f1.jpg)
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianbb273989002_zpsdbfbb3bd.jpg)
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianmike173988980_zps714247ba.jpg)


Notice Brian's clothes and hair are exactly the same in the Girl Scout photo as in the photos of the actual event and press conference, and the photos also show them wearing coats and winter clothes which would line up with a January 1966 date...perhaps.

But looking at all these photos together, I believe the Girl Scout photo was indeed taken at Capitol studios either before or after the actual presentation and press event with Voyle Gilmore, and it would make sense to have a series of photo-ops and media events scheduled at the Capitol tower that same day when everyone was there. In January 1966, the "Little Girl..." single was still, I believe, the current Beach Boys single in the stores, though it was released earlier in November.

The Capitol studio location...I'm pretty confident that's where it was shot, but am not 100% sure.

The Badman book's date of Jan 3, 1966...can anyone prove or disprove that date of the Voyle Gilmore press event?

Wow, Brian was pretty chunky here.
This post is very conducive to quality discussion.

"The Little Girl I Once Knew" was released on November 27, 1965, however, "Barbara Ann" was released on December 20, 1965. Maybe because "The Little Girl I Once Knew" didn't sell as expected, Capitol had a few extra copies sitting around and handed them out?  ;)    

Anyone out there have the 'Brian Wilson Live at the Roxy Theatre' DVD-Audio disc? I believe a very similiar photo from the same photo shoot was used on 'The Little Girl I Once Knew' track. Very cool photo. I think the one on the DVD-Audio disc is actually better. Maybe someone can do a screen grab and post it here. I'll take a look at my copy later today.

Maybe it's the same photo but I don't remember Brian's eyes being closed.

Looking at Dennis' clothes I think this might be taken at the same date as this one with the Everly Brothers. But Brian wears a coat.

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m87erwh5gr1qg49moo1_500.jpg)

I was thinking the same thing! They'd probably prefer those girls actually *buy* the new Barbara Ann single rather than hand it out. If they had cases of the Little Girl single left over, and these were "little girls", it would make sense!

The date of the Voyle Gilmore event is key, if someone could confirm it 100%. Because that is when it would appear all of the photos were taken. Not sure about the Everly Brothers shot, Brian looks thinner. Who knows.

Brian and Dennis's hair and clothing are identical in both the Gilmore and Everly Brothers shots. What are the odds of their hair AND their clothing being identical? Brian doesn't necessarily look thinner in the Everly Brothers' photo. The lighting and angles can be deceiving.

Another point about the Barbara Ann and Little Girl singles to consider: However true it is, wasn't Barbara Ann an "unplanned" single release for Capitol? If the legend is true, and this could be confirmed by those who know much more about it, some radio DJ's started playing the longer Barbara Ann album cut from Party on their stations, and the response from listeners created and proved a demand for the song as a single. Then Capitol edited the last 40 seconds or so off of the album track and created the Barbara Ann single to cash in on the demand they saw from those radio stations.

Of course the Barbara Ann single outperformed Little Girl, and it would seem it was accidental due to those DJ's creating the buzz in their own markets for the song. It was unusual to have two singles released within a month of each other, it would seem natural one would overshadow the other.

So perhaps at the time these photos were taken, Little Girl may still have been the single of record for the Beach Boys but the demand created by those DJ's playing an album cut led to a rush release of another single and they were both on the charts as "current" BB's releases.

Do the Girl Scouts keep records of big things like this?  Maybe this troop could be identified, must have been an LA area troop (at least i would think), probably some of these "little girls" are still alive and kicking with memories of this event?

And I also want to know - did Brian and the boys order cookies?  :-D

That shirt, vest, pocket watch combo is bad ass.

I have done a lot of work on dating concerts, TV apps and recording sessions properly-but photo sessions and press conferences have proven pretty difficult. I wouldn't trust the Badman dates without confirmation though based on his poor track record at that sort of thing. 

I cannot for the life of me recall the book or the author, but there's convincing evidence therein that the release of "Barbara-fucking-Ann" was Brian's idea.

That girl scouts & Brian shot sorta reminds me of every school photo I ever had.

This picture came up before. Heres a reply from C-man from a few years back but still nothing definite.

Is it this one?

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Je7C3JHRs7UC&pg=PA17&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

  Interesting, as Carlin's book says Capitol Execs released BA much to Brian's Chagrin
But now, reading that, and remembering having seen it previously, I'd question, which is more likely?  Could Ken have been remembering some other record? or did Carlin simply report erroneous conclusions of others?

That's the one. Thanks.

wow, check out the girl with the headgear, those must've been tough times.

No wonder Brian is beaming in these pictures, musically he was white hot during this period.

It may be that some younger South Park viewers think Shelley Marsh's braces are a weird invention of the show's creators. But the mouth stuff is based on historical fact. In the mid-1960s, the state of orthodontic science was about on a par with the belief that witches floated on water.  Hopefully, this young lady was later compensated in some way - maybe by starring in a couple of Tarantino's favorite low-budget movies.

Maybe the Girl Scouts presented Brian with a year's supply of GS Cookies?

It doesn't look like Capitol to me, unless they've moved entrances around and such.  I mean, I was there 40 years after the photo was taken, but the entrances to the studios were not arranged like that.

It's not that prehistoric of an idea....I wore headgear at night for a couple years to help straighten my teeth (along with the dreaded braces). Never had to wear it "out", though.

They've renovated since '65-'66 I'm sure. But the most convincing circumstantial evidence is that Capitol did "letter" their studios since Sinatra and Riddle christened them, and it would make sense if not perfect sense to have called a major press event, with interviews, photographers, and Capitol brass like Voyle Gilmore and have a staged meeting/photo-op like the one with these scouts at the same time inside the Capitol building, where Capitol records were part of the photo op.

This was a Capitol event, from all appearances in the photos, why would another studio book and host such an event? Surely none of the independents would, and Columbia most likely wouldn't have a Capitol press event with Capitol brass in their building.

Above all, Brian is decked out in the same outfit.  :)

Interesting take on the story. So the oft-repeated story about radio DJ's in America spinning the longer album cut first, garnering a buzz among listeners, then inspiring a Capitol single edit to "officially" play on the radio and sell as a 45 is either legend or simply false?

It's always something with this band.  :-D

After thinking this over a bit, and checking the dates, I'm wondering who else may be willing to call bullshit on some of Ken Mansfield's account of the Barbara Ann single.

Take one aspect for now, and that would be the release dates of fall 1965.

Assume in the record biz of fall 1965, approximately how long would it take to move a 45rpm single from the boardroom to the pressing plant to the shops, all artwork and printing included? Would the fastest turnaround for a 45rpm perhaps be at least a week from master to store shelves, perhaps two?

The Party! album, let's round it off and say it was released the second week on November 1965. There was no single release before the album to promote the album, nor was there an A-side single spun off the album released for well over a month after Party hit the stores.

The single "The Little Girl I Once Knew", let's again round it off, was released the last week of November 1965.

That leaves a three week gap where a new Beach Boys album hits the stores, complete with bags of corn chips (a promotion mentioned in Billboard) as a tie-in available in display bins at stores selling the record...followed by a new Beach Boys single whose A side sounds nothing, absolutely *nothing* like the album which was currently in the stores alongside the bags of corn chips.

Yet the B-side of that single was indeed from the Party album, a Phil Spector/Crystals cover.

How did those chart, both A and B side?

Now fast forward over six weeks after the Party album dropped, and within three weeks of a single featuring a Party cut as the B side appearing on the charts, the story we're supposed to believe is that Brian Wilson at some point while his own "Little Girl I Once Knew" single is a few weeks old, walks into a Capitol exec's office with an edited version of Barbara Ann and declares it to be the single, from an album almost two months old and in direct competition with his current single?

Not saying it didn't happen, but if you consider such a decision on Barbara Ann seems to have been made within a few weeks of his own latest BB's single being released, does it add up?

The story of DJ's spinning the album cut and it gathering steam that way first makes more sense on the surface and for history and timeline reasons.

The story of a Capitol exec in that meeting with Brian might be more plausible if it were the Party album's release being discussed, as there is even studio chatter among the band during the sessions about it being a potential problem or controversial release, whatever term they used during the conversation at the studio.

Just thinking out loud.

Hmmm....so THIS is where Brian first got the idea for "Hey Little Tomboy"....

 :drumroll

11/8/65 - Party ! released

11/22/65 - "TLGIOK" single released

11/27/65 - Party ! debuts at #64: "TLGIOK" also charts at #69

12/20/65 - "B-f-A" single released

1/1/66 - "B-f-A" debuts at #81: "TLGIOK" peaks at #20: Party ! peaks at #6

Is the TLGIOK release date of 11/22/65 for the UK or the US single or perhaps a few days early? I ask because I most often see a release date given as 11/27/65 for that single.

US. Being released and charting on the same day would be exceptional in the 60s.

If I remember correctly, in a pretty recent interview Brian said Barbara Ann was released by Capitol without giving the Boys notice. I like the story from the book much better, though...

So where has the release date of 11/27/65 been coming from all these years?  :)

Took a few seconds.

And I'll boil it down to the essential points if possible, compared to my last one:

Given the timeline for these releases posted above, would it make any sense for Brian to demand a release of a new single within two weeks of his previous single coming out? Unless something is lost in the wording somewhere, wasn't standard practice at that time to give a single from a hot artist at least a month to catch on through airplay and promotions before releasing another one right on top of it, effectively short-circuiting the first one?

Moby Grape was the extreme example of how flooding the market with simultaneous singles was a bad idea, I just cannot believe the Capitol exec's version of Brian demanding a new single release as his current single was just hitting the charts, given the time between TLGIOK and Barbara Ann was a matter of weeks.

Or if he did demand a Barbara Ann release, perhaps *releasing that song* was his idea at some point but not putting it out quite that soon as to torpedo his other release. That would be shooting yourself in the foot, in other words.

Honestly, I just think the story in the book is about another Beach Boys record or incident, I don't buy it 100%.

Ultimately whoever did decide to release Barbara Ann as a single made the right call economically, the success speaks for itself. I just think the market demand from those DJ's playing the album cut led to it and Capitol followed the trending demand for the song by rush-releasing a single edit. Not Brian as much as that book suggests.

Or could it be at a radio station? Those two doors on the left seem pretty close to each other for big studios. Architecturally, it's possible of course.

It's good to weigh all the possibilities, but when you have that many photos of Brian Wilson at Capitol's event wearing the same clothes and exact same hairstyle as he does in the girl scout photo, and he's in front of studios marked just as Capitol had done since the 1950's, and it was done on a day at Capitol when the press and photographers were there...

I just think at some point we say 2+2 always equals 4, and these photos add up that it's more than likely Capitol as anywhere else.

If it were at a radio station, one of the DJ's or at least the station's call letters would be prominently shown in a photo opportunity like this, to promote that station or link them to The Beach Boys. Or the girls would be wearing pins or something with the station letters. Trust me on that one.  :-D

I thought AGD had moved on from song acronyms to just quoting the chords
You should see Add Some Music... :)

TLGIOK was already hitbound in NY on Nov 11 and charting locally at #49 on Nov 13 in Cleveland. By Nov 27 it had already hit #3 in Orlando. It was stilling charting locally clear through January 1966.

B-f-A shows up debuting at #56 in NY on Dec 16.

 ;D

Don't forget about the October Jack Benny Performance. The band performed Barbara Ann with Brian on bass.

It looks like Capitol to me.

I should qualify my remark by saying that I've been in that hallway.

But why should the Everly Brothers be at a Capitol event? They never were signed to that label.

It does look like a Girl Scout field trip.  The troop leaders tried to often bring the girls to places where they could get a feel for non-traditional career areas (at that time) for young ladies to to expand their horizons beyond the stereotypical "teacher, nurse or social worker" career tracks.  We were taken to a local TV station yearly to be on a local TV show and see the process firsthand; newsroom, weather maps, etc.  

And, I'm kinda jealous it was not my Girl Scout troop.   :lol

This is a great picture... ;D

Looking at the timeline entries, I have to wonder how the LGIOK release came about; could the BfA/Ken Mansfield Conversation have happened  and then Capitol decided to do  the LGIOK release, even tho Brian wanted BfA? 
LGIOK seems to be the Rush release here: 
September
23 - Party ! session: The Times They Are A Changing/You’ve Got To Hide Your Love
       Away/Barbara Ann/Smokey Joe’s Café/Heart and Soul/Long Tall Sally
October
13 - single session; The Little Girl I Once Knew/Don't Talk [rehearsal]
23 - Jack Benny Hour NBC-TV, Burbank CA [13]
24 - single session: The Little Girl I Once Knew
  November 
  8 - Beach Boys Party ! album released
22 - The Little Girl I Once Knew/There's No Other (Like My Baby) single released
  December
20 - Barbara Ann/Girl, Don't Tell Me single released

Brian had a habit for closing his eyes when a picture is being taken, I think he still does it now  :lol

You're assuming that photo was taken at the same Capitol Records BB's gold record event, and I don't think there is enough info or strong enough evidence yet that it was. If more photos surface it would clear it up.

We ran into this issue with the Heroes single, how KHJ was spinning it in mid July '67 and it appeared as a "Hitbound" several weeks prior to the official release.

Interestingly I looked at KRLA's surveys and TLGIOK doesn't appear at all until December 1965. KHJ had it as a hitbound single in their November 17th survey.

Very frustrating when trying to come to any conclusions or facts about these dates, depending on the region these stations were playing advance copies of these records up to 2-3 weeks ahead of the official release.

Thank you for that info! I've looked high and low for any other photos of that hallway and have found nothing.

I think it might be easier to date the everly brothers photo.  Brian is either visiting them backstage at a concert or a tv taping. You'd need to see where they appeared in the la area in 1965-66.

It didn't look to my eyes like the Everlys photo was from the same Capitol event as the other photos.

In the picture thread someone mentioned way back that the Everly picture was taken backstage in '66 at a show at the Hollywood Bowl. However this site doesn't mention an Everly Brothers show in '66:
http://gogonotes.blogspot.de/2008/12/60s-rock-n-roll-at-bowl.html

Have you ever had your pic taken with those old phosphorous flashbulbs??

They will nearly blind you for a few seconds.

I dont blame him for flinching -- many of those girls are too.

While researching something else, I found a variation of the presentation photo in the December 29, 1965 issue of KFWB Hitline.

(http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q476/marcus1970/VoyleGilmoreandBeachBoysgoldrecordscrop.jpg) (http://s351.photobucket.com/user/marcus1970/media/VoyleGilmoreandBeachBoysgoldrecordscrop.jpg.html)

This is GOOD!  The "unidentified young man" is now ID'd! 
and I love how above the Beach Boys pic there's a separate article which talks about "the Pied Piper"; this probably came back to Brian some years later in a dream...

Just doing a search on Ron Tepper. Trivia time. Turns out he wrote the recall letter for the Beatles 'Butcher Cover' in 1966.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Beatles-Butcher-Cover-Recall-Letter-s-all-4-Styles-EMAILED-to-You-/200955104759?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item2ec9db8df7

So once again Badman is proven wrong. I only hope his books on other bands are considerably more accurate than the Diary.

OK, so "B-f-A" not released yet, so prior to 12/20... "TLGIOK" moving up the charts means... meh, any time in December. Phooey. Although, "rapidly" would indicate the early weeks of charting, so between 11/27 and 12/11. That's my two cents.

This is a great update to the saga of those photos! Very cool to get the new info, thank you.

We have a two-week span between 11/27 and 12/11 that the event and photos could have taken place - it's amazing to not have a firm date anywhere in the news or various literature of the day, even a dated caption with the photo or something would have helped!

 Maybe we can get Brian to post the back of the photo on facebook too - thats where all the dates, etc is.

In the promo video with the 5 BB taking a raft into the pool at BW house isn't BW wearing the same shirt + vest as in this photo..?? I know its in black + white but who knows..? Or do I have a faulty memory.?

Brian didn't wear a vest in the Sloop promo, and his shirt was of a darker shade.

Incidentally, the clip was filmed at Carl Wilson's Coldwater Canyon house, as reported in the August 1966 issue of Tiger Beat.

Ok thanks faulty memory I guess..