Check THIS Out...

[the captain]

Well please try to keep in mind that I'm not smart enough for subtleties.   

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

How, Billy? How was he in better shape in 1999 as opposed to 2009? Besides being 10 years older. The main difference I can see from then to now is that he's recorded four more solo albums and no longer is creatively entangled with Joe Thomas.

Probably because when AGD says things, it's often coming from sources who would know or his own first-hand knowledge, whereas most of us here are either just guessing, observing from afar, or hearing from someone who heard from someone who thinks he heard that someone once said something (or something like that).

Though plenty of people disregard Andrew's posts, too, even when they're perfectly accurate--especially when they mess with their already-set caricatures.

Andrew  kinda touched on what I was driving at. Let me put it like this... Brian was more articulate back then, and seemed more energetic.  Not just talking about performance either, as his first year of touring was seriously rough. His age is catching up with him. It happens. He has his good days and his bad days, but his bad days are starting to outnumber his good ones. A performance such as the 1998 Farm Aid show used to be an exception (not so much 1998-1999, but afterwards) but now it's the norm. His fire seems to be fading. But, again, he is 67, so it's not unexpected entirely.

[the captain]

No reason to quote me there.

[Ed Roach]

A good friend of mine, whose name you'd know, once told me that he thought that each live show took something out of Brian. "Every time I meet him, there's a little less 'Brian' there".

This is painful to read, and a tragic way to think of Brian.  It also makes me think of Dennis, and his last years touring with the group.  So strange to have watched his transformation, way before we became friends, first as a fan in the audience, seeing him sing "The Wanderer", with Brian on drums.  Then being on the road, when several of them had solo sets, and were appreciated only by small, hardcore audiences.  When they had the big time again, playing those Endless Summer stadium shows, he got to live like a 'rock star' in a bigger way than ever before.
 
Dennis was an ever changing man, but this statement about Brian reminds me of the deviation as the shine was waring off his star for a second time...  He always left the stage with more energy than is almost imagineable, yet he reached a point where he seemed to leave a little more of himself behind each time, until there was little left for him to bring.  Makes sense of why he was such an empty vessel at the end of his life.

[The Shift]

It's fascinating getting everyone's take on this. I posted here and elsewhere about the Glasgow gig recently, about how Brian forgot lines, about how the sound engineer had been told to mix his voice way down ("bury" was the word he used), and about how the sound was dire anyway.

I think some elsewhere have taken it as a swipe at Brian.

I've also pointed out that the night was great, that Brian was vocally on great form.

My take on it was this: Brian can do what the hell he likes on stage for all I care. My own issues aren't with him checking his watch, fluffing/forgetting lines or having that bored orangutan look on his face. I'd happily pay to watch Brian Wilson fall asleep on stage in an empty auditorium - and I'd buy the bootleg afterwards*.

I'm happy with the fact that he's not 23 any more, that he needs his mug of Horlicks and his autocue. I'm happy that he's interested enough to know what time it is, that he's happier sitting behind a silent keyboard, happy that he prefers a big band onstage to a small group of blokes in stripey shirts.  It's what we expect and love about a BW gig.

Not sure about the "seeing less of Brian" quote, though I do respect its origin and the fact that it's come from someone who's closer to BW than I've ever been (except those occasions when I was shaking his hand... I can safely say no-one was closer at that moment, though I'm not going to claim we bonded or anything okay!). I just saw someone last week who didn't seem quite as excited about another Greatest Hits gig as he was playing PS, Smile or TLOS.

What really pisses me off, though, is paying to have some clown f*** up the sound and someone else insist - crime of the century here - that Brian Wilson's voice is buried in the mix.  If BW wants to sing I wanna hear him.


* sh*t, does this mean I'm still a Blueboarder deep down?

[Mr. Cohen]

I guess I just don't understand why there is this desire to turn Brian into a touring artist at, of all ages, when he's in his 50s/60s? He never was a fan of touring, even when he was in his 20s, and he wasn't touring when he recorded "California Girls" or Pet Sounds, so what's the point? Especially when touring seems to take so much out of him and constantly terrify him, even after doing it constantly for a decade! I understand that people say that it keeps him occupied, so that he's not just sitting on his couch watching TV Land and eating steak, but are there really no other ways to keep the man occupied?  It's either touring or he does nothing? That sounds silly to me, for some reason. As for needing the touring to the support the BW band, these guys somehow made it before BW, and I'm sure would be more than willing to help Brian record a solo album whether they toured with him or not. Think about it. If Brian asked you to help him record, would you say no? Most of those guys are at least as big of fans as us.

I think the touring happens for a lot of silly reasons.  Maybe Melinda likes traveling? Maybe the band likes playing for bigger crowds through the BW name? We're told that it's (partially) because Brian needs to see all of the love out there for him, but yet when he does an autograph session with fans, he always looks like he wants to be anywhere else in the world. I think touring Pet Sounds and SMiLE was a good idea, it did seem to have recuperative effects for Brian, but past that, enough is enough.

[the captain]

That's a very good post.

[Jay]

I guess I just don't understand why there is this desire to turn Brian into a touring artist at, of all ages, when he's in his 50s/60s? He never was a fan of touring, even when he was in his 20s, and he wasn't touring when he recorded "California Girls" or Pet Sounds, so what's the point? Especially when touring seems to take so much out of him and constantly terrify him, even after doing it constantly for a decade! I understand that people say that it keeps him occupied, so that he's not just sitting on his couch watching TV Land and eating steak, but are there really no other ways to keep the man occupied?  It's either touring or he does nothing? That sounds silly to me, for some reason. As for needing the touring to the support the BW band, these guys somehow made it before BW, and I'm sure would be more than willing to help Brian record a solo album whether they toured with him or not. Think about it. If Brian asked you to help him record, would you say no? Most of those guys are at least as big of fans as us.

I think the touring happens for a lot of silly reasons.  Maybe Melinda likes traveling? Maybe the band likes playing for bigger crowds through the BW name? We're told that it's (partially) because Brian needs to see all of the love out there for him, but yet when he does an autograph session with fans, he always looks like he wants to be anywhere else in the world. I think touring Pet Sounds and SMiLE was a good idea, it did seem to have recuperative effects for Brian, but past that, enough is enough.

I wonder what would happen if Brian suddenly woke up one morning and said "I'm done being Brian Wilson"? I mean, HE is the musician here. Are his band members going to sue him? Would his own wife sue him? It just boggles my mind how Brian could be left out of any type of decision making, when HE is the one who does the singing and recording. HE is the one who is at the center of it all. His band members are the employees, and Brian is their boss. Not the other way around.

[MBE]

A good friend of mine, whose name you'd know, once told me that he thought that each live show took something out of Brian. "Every time I meet him, there's a little less 'Brian' there".

It's interesting, AGD.

People post perfectly logical, thoughtful, and articulate comments about Brian Wilson; a dose of reality if you will. And, they're often met with criticism, sarcasm, and name-calling. Then you, AGD, come on either agreeing with the former posts, sometimes even defending them, and there's SILENCE. Your above post is a perfect example....

I've given statements from eyewitnesses about Brian's current problems but because I protect my sources Brian's biggest fans don't believe me. Even if they were told by someone directly they wouldn't believe them.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I guess I just don't understand why there is this desire to turn Brian into a touring artist at, of all ages, when he's in his 50s/60s? He never was a fan of touring, even when he was in his 20s, and he wasn't touring when he recorded "California Girls" or Pet Sounds, so what's the point? Especially when touring seems to take so much out of him and constantly terrify him, even after doing it constantly for a decade! I understand that people say that it keeps him occupied, so that he's not just sitting on his couch watching TV Land and eating steak, but are there really no other ways to keep the man occupied?  It's either touring or he does nothing? That sounds silly to me, for some reason. As for needing the touring to the support the BW band, these guys somehow made it before BW, and I'm sure would be more than willing to help Brian record a solo album whether they toured with him or not. Think about it. If Brian asked you to help him record, would you say no? Most of those guys are at least as big of fans as us.

I think the touring happens for a lot of silly reasons.  Maybe Melinda likes traveling? Maybe the band likes playing for bigger crowds through the BW name? We're told that it's (partially) because Brian needs to see all of the love out there for him, but yet when he does an autograph session with fans, he always looks like he wants to be anywhere else in the world. I think touring Pet Sounds and SMiLE was a good idea, it did seem to have recuperative effects for Brian, but past that, enough is enough.

I wonder what would happen if Brian suddenly woke up one morning and said "I'm done being Brian Wilson"? I mean, HE is the musician here. Are his band members going to sue him? Would his own wife sue him? It just boggles my mind how Brian could be left out of any type of decision making, when HE is the one who does the singing and recording. HE is the one who is at the center of it all. His band members are the employees, and Brian is their boss. Not the other way around.

True... but remember, we're talking about Brian Wilson here: not only will he usually take the path of least resistance, often at his own expense, but he's also no mean manipulator in his own right. We're talking comfort zone here.

[Eric Aniversario]

Wow, that 1978 performance would only be made complete with Elaine from Seinfeld on the stage doing an interpretive dance on roller skates.

[Nicko1234]

I think the touring happens for a lot of silly reasons.  Maybe Melinda likes traveling? Maybe the band likes playing for bigger crowds through the BW name? We're told that it's (partially) because Brian needs to see all of the love out there for him, but yet when he does an autograph session with fans, he always looks like he wants to be anywhere else in the world. I think touring Pet Sounds and SMiLE was a good idea, it did seem to have recuperative effects for Brian, but past that, enough is enough.

For Melinda as well she also gets fame by association. Much better for her to be married to a touring music legend than to be married to a `weirdo` who hadn`t toured properly for decades.

For Leaf, he gets to live out his dreams through Brian.

The band get to play in front of relatively large audiences and have more fame than they ever would have had otherwise.

I`m not saying that any of them are uncaring towards Brian at all but it serves all of their purposes to have Brian out touring regularly.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Good points, except

For Leaf, he gets to live out his dreams through Brian.

Not no more he don't.

[RONDEMON]

Why not?

[Wirestone]

I want to make something clear, just for the sake of making it clear.

I very much appreciate the folks (AGD among them) writing about BW and his touring, etc. The insiders' information is valued. It's an important body of knowledge that we would not have otherwise. I also appreciate folks posting their varied impressions. It frustrates me sometimes, but it's a wide-ranging, informed discussion, which is always more important than toeing whatever party line.

I am not -- as posts might suggest -- a total BW apologist. I think it is arguable that the greatest hits shows aren't a great use of Brian's time, and I also think it's arguable that he's been over-toured. But I also find myself very skeptical of the "Brian as unwitting victim" narrative -- just because it's so easy, so often repeated, and because I don't know if it really captures the complexities of the current situation. Carlin's book does a good job of tackling the issue. So I like to challenge folks on the "everything is horrible" assumption -- just as the "everything is always peachy and great" narrative is often challenged.

To me, I keep coming back to the material Brian recorded with Scott in the summer of 06. Just Like Me and You, Message Man, Oh Mi Amor, I'm Into Something Good, the TLOS songs -- this is great, solid work. I never thought current-day Brian was capable of it. And if you hear the demos, you hear that piano sound, those overdubbed vocals -- it's very pure BW.

And I listen to that material, and how totally in command Brian sounds, and remember that in the summer of 06, we on this board were posting epic threads on how Brian wasn't in control of his life. And it reminds me of how complex these situations are, and how little it's possible to know what's really in another human being -- even one as well-known and innocent-seeming as Brian Wilson.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Agree  with you about the TLOS outtakes.  See, to me that's what Brian should be doing, just doing music whenever he feels like it...the results speak for themselves.

[phirnis]

Agree  with you about the TLOS outtakes.  See, to me that's what Brian should be doing, just doing music whenever he feels like it...the results speak for themselves.

I have always liked the idea of Brian doing one-off singles like "Child of Winter" or "Walking Down the Path of Life" primarily. Whenever he feels the urge to write and record, just let him do it and put it out as soon as it's finished.

[grillo]

I want to make something clear, just for the sake of making it clear.

I very much appreciate the folks (AGD among them) writing about BW and his touring, etc. The insiders' information is valued. It's an important body of knowledge that we would not have otherwise. I also appreciate folks posting their varied impressions. It frustrates me sometimes, but it's a wide-ranging, informed discussion, which is always more important than toeing whatever party line.

I am not -- as posts might suggest -- a total BW apologist. I think it is arguable that the greatest hits shows aren't a great use of Brian's time, and I also think it's arguable that he's been over-toured. But I also find myself very skeptical of the "Brian as unwitting victim" narrative -- just because it's so easy, so often repeated, and because I don't know if it really captures the complexities of the current situation. Carlin's book does a good job of tackling the issue. So I like to challenge folks on the "everything is horrible" assumption -- just as the "everything is always peachy and great" narrative is often challenged.

To me, I keep coming back to the material Brian recorded with Scott in the summer of 06. Just Like Me and You, Message Man, Oh Mi Amor, I'm Into Something Good, the TLOS songs -- this is great, solid work. I never thought current-day Brian was capable of it. And if you hear the demos, you hear that piano sound, those overdubbed vocals -- it's very pure BW.

And I listen to that material, and how totally in command Brian sounds, and remember that in the summer of 06, we on this board were posting epic threads on how Brian wasn't in control of his life. And it reminds me of how complex these situations are, and how little it's possible to know what's really in another human being -- even one as well-known and innocent-seeming as Brian Wilson.

Isn't the point here that he was able to do these things (ie write and record new material) because, for a vanishingly small amount of time) Brian was NOT surrounded by his keepers but left to do as me wanted. When he's free he appears happy and productive, but when he's on a leash or timetable he's miserable and unproductive, just like me and everyone else ever

[Pretty Funky]

Great thread!

The question was asked earlier about what role Brian could play onstage at any reunion. I have no problem hearing him sing Carls leads. In fact it would be easier on his voice than a full BW set list as he tires near the end of his solo shows IMO.

[joe_blow]

What's there to be depressed about? He is a 67 year old man -- diagnosed as schizoaffective bipolar -- who tours and plays his music with a band he loves for people who pay to hear it.

What's wrong with that?

Plays his music? Or sits in front of a keyboard?