The Smiley Smile Message Board

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1EPXBQV3yM&feature=related

What a FREAK show!  If the Boys DO reunite for a 50-year "reunion" tour, they've GOT to do THIS song, and Brian & Mike HAVE to do THESE moves!  >:D

Brian would break a hip.

Holy mackerel. Exhibit A on why it's better to have an immobile Brian at shows. We have seen the alternative!

It amazes me that people prefer a cocaine-fried Brian over the current Brian. Looking at that clip, you can just smell the coke!

That is the roller skating child I like. Totally punk rock vibe to that haha. 

Compare this video to the 1978 one. I'd much rather have a 1978 Brian than this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neZaQInFTaw&feature=related

Granted, if you'd had more of the 1978 Brian going forward as he was, you wouldn't have to make a choice. Nobody would have seen a 2009 Brian.

Oh, look at the funny, cute fat guy. Watch him die of his heart attack. Haha, get it?

Nobody's advocating or desiring an overweight, drug addicted, poor-dancing Brian. That's not even close to the point of people comparing the past and present Brian.

It's all about energy - comparing a Brian who was active on stage, showing some kind of life, actually PLAYING music, as opposed to a sedentary, robotic, karaoke-like figure. I mean, jeesh, it's just comparing the two videos, the images....

But when one leads to the other, I can't see how you would separate them. Nobody's advocating anorexia, we just like the really skinny girls.

Exactly, Luther.

The whole point of why the dancing, running around Brian is so freaky is that it is totally unlike the way Brian had ever been before or after that point. That is a performer who is in the process of self-destructing. It is funny, yes, but in in a terrible way.

The recent performance of Brian in Berlin is perfectly fine. Not inspirational, but certainly not disturbing. It's an older man on stage, singing a song he's sung many times, and looking a little bored. But he's reasonably in tune and hits all of the lyrics. Sure, in terms of entertainment value, it's a snooze.

But I would rather watch this Brian -- content if medicated -- than the flaming trainwreck of the late 70s.

And who says he doesn't dance anymore? Check out the 30-second mark for some trademarked BW moves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tkkdWCsBEA&NR=1

Back when Brian started touring in 1999 up until I think 2002, he did "Barbara Ann" standing up with a microphone dancing around the stage. Does anyone rememer this? A clip of a very enthused Brian is on the Brian on Tour DVD.

It's just stating a preference of a certain style, not examining how he got there. No need to go that deep. Not comparing the cocaine of yesterday to the medication that Brian's taking today. It's "wishing" or fanatasing if you will. It's like hearing a singer like Dylan or even Brian in 1966 and thinking, "I prefer THAT voice to the present one". Sure, it ain't gonna happen, but that's not the point of the statement. It's not addressing WHY the voices aren't the same. But, I guess it is, to some extent, longing for some of the past, without the warts. We're not that ignorant to ignore the cause of the warts.

BTW, it's entirely possible that cocaine was not driving Brian's "dancing". He was playing the bass, out from behind the piano, maybe he was just feeling "free" and felt like dancing. I've seen him do it on numerous 1963-64 videos, however somewhat more gracefully. :-D

Even if Brian was on tons of drugs/playing bass/feeling free, he still wouldn't be acting like that today. He's old.

Hell yeah. I just don't understand how the sight of 2009 Brian doesn't depress the hell out of anyone.

You nailed it. Look at him in the first few seconds of that clip. Right before he does the weird "round and around" motion, he's dancing and hopping away. Enjoying himself, and the uptempo song he's playing with his group. THAT is the Brian I want to see now. Not the guy who sits still in front of an unplugged keyboard, periodically looking at his watch.

Mr Roach, thanks for that bit of info. I hope you aren't too offended that I posted your film in this topic. Although it might be a little late for that.  :-[ I wonder, do you remember how much film you shot at that, or other concerts from that period? Would it be enough to say, compile a nice little box set?  ;)

Agreed. Sadly, he reminds me of my father in his last 5-10 years or so. Even kinda looks like him, and that's freaky.

That said...the 2nd 2009 clip was much better. You can tell when he's dogging it and when he's not.

What's there to be depressed about? He is a 67 year old man -- diagnosed as schizoaffective bipolar -- who tours and plays his music with a band he loves for people who pay to hear it.

What's wrong with that?

Am I supposed to be depressed that he's old? It happens to the best of us.

Am I supposed to be depressed that he's mentally ill? A lot of people are, and he's ultimately dealed with it better than most.

Am I supposed to be depressed because the "dark forces" behind him are making him do things he doesn't want to do? If there were really sinister, "dark forces" behind him, they would make him sing on key more often. If his tours don't make money (confirmed), and if he's not always the best performer in the world (confirmed), then why would the tours go on? Because "dark forces" believe Brian benefits from them. And maybe because he likes to do them.

The fact is, Brian is who he is. And he's never been big on hiding it. That makes some people uncomfortable, including a vocal subset of folks here, who can't accept that music they love, that is so important to them, is being played and warbled by a impassive, sedated old guy. They want Brian to be cool and mysterious and avant garde. And he hasn't been that for awhile.

No, I'm not depressed when I see the Brian of today. I am impressed by his fortitude. And his incredible hair.

Is he? Or is he what people tell him to be?

 ;D


If his people tell him to be a 'sedentary, kareoke robot like figure', the managment situation is worse than we've thought.
To be honest, he doesn't look like a man being pressured to do anything except sit behind his keyboard a few nights a year on unprofitable touring and be asked about Pet Sounds by the occasional journalist because his wife believes (presumably with some advice from a psychiatrist) that it does him some good. We're hardly talking Landy type exploitation, are we?

I think we should not project all sorts of ideas and fantasies onto Brian Wilson's current state. He is 67. He lost his beloved brothers, who died young. He was taken into court more times than I can remember. He battled severe depression. He thought he had the right doctor for a long time, and this did not happen to be true.

A bit of realism is in order. It is a miracle that he is still with us.

Maybe your're not, but maybe some are. claymcc, it's fine that you're not saddened by Brian's current state; that's great. It's much more fun to celebrate Brian than to dwell on his shortcomings. But, the reality is that some people ARE saddened - to varying degrees. And maybe "saddened" or depressed isn't the best term to use; maybe longing for something more, something different. That's perfectly normal; people do it all the time, especially with aging rockers. And, those people don't need to defend themselves (or Brian), or explain their feelings, or be told the way they're SUPPOSED to feel.

I think it's perfectly normal, and probably more prevalent than fans are willing to admit, that there is a tinge of sadness when seeing Brian live. Yeah, you walk away excited, and grateful (that he's still around and you saw him), and rejuvinated. But, if most fans are honest, there's that tinge of sadness, a wish that maybe he would've played the piano, maybe sing less bass parts, maybe got out of his seat, maybe interacted with his band, maybe talked more to the audience, maybe not looked bored, etc. And fans shouldn't have to apologize for that. It's called being human.

Then just put out the silent versions...with today's technology, most of us could sync up sound from live concert recordings in our...ahem...collections...for the sole purpose of our individual entertainment in the privacy of our own homes... :smokin

How about THIS spectacle from '83?  A few months after Landy's return, so definitely no coke HERE...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLx5Y5zRww

This thread begs an interesting question...what will be Brian's onstage role in any "50 Year Anniversary" concert or tour?  He can't sit at an unplayed keyboard and sing lead on songs like "California Girls" as he does now, since Mike will be singing that, and it would look kinda dumb for him to be just sitting there not playing OR singing.  Will he play the piano nonstop and rarely sing as he did in 1980?  Will he play the bass and/or dance like he did in 1978, 1983 and the "Surfin' U.S.A." clip from 2009?  Just wondering.

No, but hardly an absence of chemical enhancements. I know we were talking a little about that in the youtube thread. That minute mark...that's a happy Brian.

As for his role, I'd think they'd set him behind a keyboard because that would be one of his requirements for doing it: he's not going to stand, at least for any period of time. On songs he's not singing a prominent part, he'll theoretically play, whether it's audible or (realistically) not.

Good questions. I would like to see Brian given an "area" on stage with a variety of instruments that he could play at random. Give him a piano, an organ, a bass, a tambourine (?), and just a seat/with teleprompter behind a piano (like he's doing now) for his lead vocals. I'm not saying overwhelm him with all those possibilities, but give him choices, or options, that he could employ. If he chooses to just stand on stage behind a microphone (a la Dennis in the early 70's), that'd be fine too, just as long as he's there.

Oh wow! This is a real treat seriously..this is how I would like to see Brian more:) I dont think I've ever seen him standing at new shows with an insturment other then the keyboard.

Well, I think the 2009 clip actually looks pretty good.  You guys remember he is 67 YEARS OLD, right...?

Here's a clip of Be My Baby from 1999, he suddenly gets up at 2:30 and does a little dance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsqqBvge4DU&feature=related

The sight of Joe Thomas makes me a little uncomfortable, tho. And also notice that Steve Dahl isn't even making an attempt to strum the acoustic!

If he's given a bass, do you think he can "actively" play it, as long as he doesn't sing? I think that the belief is that Brian can no longer concentrate on two things at once(singing and playing). What I'm really interested in is whether Brian will "come out", so to speak, if he shares the stage with Al and Mike.

A-f#cking-men.  ;D

This is slightly off topic, but Taylor Mills is a real hoot.  :lol

I really enjoyed that "Runaway" video from 1983.  Brian's having a good time, definitely.  I didn't know they performed this song.  Also, the 1st time I've seen Brian share a mic like that.  The performance didn't seem too rehearsed, just on the fly, which I like.  Watching Brian dance & clap along, what can I say?  Awkward, fun, quirky, but quintessential Brian.  Another reason why I love the BB & Brian.

Going back to some of the earlier posts, this clip is something I kinda wish "Joe Public" could watch instead of all the tv appearances Brian's made since the late '90s where he just sits at the keyboard & sings here & there.  I know, because if I watched Brian on tv without knowing his history & the BB, I would wonder what's all the fuss about.  Even though I'm glad he's physically better today, it's still pretty cool to see clips like "Runaway" where he's happy to be onstage & having a ball, &  the audience knows it, too.

Yep - a year older than Mick Jagger.  Definitely enjoyed the performance, but the highlight of this video for me is Taylor Mills' legs!

I think that sums it up pretty well.

I can completely understand people saying it`s remarkable that Brian is still alive at all and that he is able to get up onstage after years of being unable to.

But I think it`s also fair to say that Brian is forgiven for more than most performers. I would say that it`s a pretty basic demand of a singer that they (at least pretend to) want to be on stage and don`t check their watch. Also that the band don`t have to ask for the singer`s voice to be turned down in the mix and that they can remember most of the words of their songs (I`ve heard boots where in spite of the autocue Brian has still had to doo-doo-doo through entire verses). A video from last year in which the mix was bad showed that he did the same thing through a lot of the harmonies too.

I would also like to believe that Brian chooses the setlist himself and picked the tracks for the Beach Boys Classics CD too...but I can`t unfortunately.

Have you seen or heard Dylan recently? Talk about forgiven. He also uses lyrics sheets now, btw.

And talk about reading too much into Brian one way or another. Why does checking his watch have such mythical significance? He wants to know what time it is. He's done it nearly since the beginning of his touring career. So what?

As for turning BW down in the mix, and him botching entire verses -- never heard of that. Not saying it hasn't even happened, but you state it as if it's standard practice. I've seen him personally five times since 2000, heard many other performances -- never heard it, never seen it. If anything, he's always been turned up in the mix when I've seen him.

And bringing up the BB Classics CD -- I'd like to believe that Bob Dylan personally sequenced Biograph, too. I don't see what that has to do with anything.

Finally, I'm glad that setlists have outside input. Otherwise, we'd never hear any rarities.

Well said, I agree with most of what you say. I've seen Brian three times (I know, nowhere near as much as some people) and each time I could hear him fine and I don't remember him botching entire verses either. He might forget the odd word or two but I can forgive him for that. And every so often he might change the odd word here and there but so do lots of artists when they perform live.

That`s why I said most performers.


That was an example. When I saw Brian in concert it was blatantly obvious that he didn`t want to be on stage. Most people didn`t seem to care which is up to them but it made it unpleasant viewing for me. Each to their own.


The CD was advertised that he had personally selected the tracks. Now I personally don`t believe that and, to me at least, that`s a shame. The reason I mention it is simply because I wish that Brian actually did still have the abilities and responsibilities that his management team try to convince people that he has. Many people probably believe he does and I can respect their opinion.


Not sure why we wouldn`t hear any rarities but again it`s all about opinions.

Yeah, I knew someone would bring up Jagger.  To be more fair, compare Brian to a REGULAR 67 year old, like your grandfather...

Perhaps I'm on thin ice here but the REAL comparison with how Brian is today would be the brief resurgence in the 90s of classical pianist David Helfgott (whose story is the movie "Shine").

Now THERE was a guy who really needed to be led around by his ever-patient wife just to function.  And if you think people are apologetic for Brian, you should have seen the people who went to Helfgott's concerts.  As I understand it those performances were very hit-or-miss affairs, much more so than Brian checking his watch on a bad day.  From that standpoint Brian is doing OK, at least most of the time.

Yes it is sad to see the failings, as it is with all these aging boomer rockers, and I acknowledge them.  But in Brian's case I would add another variable, which I have now seen a couple of times: every now and then, however briefly, his old laser-beam focus re-emerges, and when it does it is exhilirating (and scary) to behold.

Not skating on thin ice at all...I made the same point a decade ago on the Wheeler board. Difference is, Brian was in better shape when I said that compared to now.

How, Billy? How was he in better shape in 1999 as opposed to 2009? Besides being 10 years older. The main difference I can see from then to now is that he's recorded four more solo albums and no longer is creatively entangled with Joe Thomas.

A good friend of mine, whose name you'd know, once told me that he thought that each live show took something out of Brian. "Every time I meet him, there's a little less 'Brian' there".

It's interesting, AGD.

People post perfectly logical, thoughtful, and articulate comments about Brian Wilson; a dose of reality if you will. And, they're often met with criticism, sarcasm, and name-calling. Then you, AGD, come on either agreeing with the former posts, sometimes even defending them, and there's SILENCE. Your above post is a perfect example....

Probably because when AGD says things, it's often coming from sources who would know or his own first-hand knowledge, whereas most of us here are either just guessing, observing from afar, or hearing from someone who heard from someone who thinks he heard that someone once said something (or something like that).

Though plenty of people disregard Andrew's posts, too, even when they're perfectly accurate--especially when they mess with their already-set caricatures.

Oh, I know WHY; I guess my post/point was more or less rhetorical.... ;)

Well please try to keep in mind that I'm not smart enough for subtleties.   ;D

Andrew  kinda touched on what I was driving at. Let me put it like this... Brian was more articulate back then, and seemed more energetic.  Not just talking about performance either, as his first year of touring was seriously rough. His age is catching up with him. It happens. He has his good days and his bad days, but his bad days are starting to outnumber his good ones. A performance such as the 1998 Farm Aid show used to be an exception (not so much 1998-1999, but afterwards) but now it's the norm. His fire seems to be fading. But, again, he is 67, so it's not unexpected entirely.

No reason to quote me there.

It's fascinating getting everyone's take on this. I posted here and elsewhere about the Glasgow gig recently, about how Brian forgot lines, about how the sound engineer had been told to mix his voice way down ("bury" was the word he used), and about how the sound was dire anyway.

I think some elsewhere have taken it as a swipe at Brian.

I've also pointed out that the night was great, that Brian was vocally on great form.

My take on it was this: Brian can do what the hell he likes on stage for all I care. My own issues aren't with him checking his watch, fluffing/forgetting lines or having that bored orangutan look on his face. I'd happily pay to watch Brian Wilson fall asleep on stage in an empty auditorium - and I'd buy the bootleg afterwards*.

I'm happy with the fact that he's not 23 any more, that he needs his mug of Horlicks and his autocue. I'm happy that he's interested enough to know what time it is, that he's happier sitting behind a silent keyboard, happy that he prefers a big band onstage to a small group of blokes in stripey shirts.  It's what we expect and love about a BW gig.

Not sure about the "seeing less of Brian" quote, though I do respect its origin and the fact that it's come from someone who's closer to BW than I've ever been (except those occasions when I was shaking his hand... I can safely say no-one was closer at that moment, though I'm not going to claim we bonded or anything okay!). I just saw someone last week who didn't seem quite as excited about another Greatest Hits gig as he was playing PS, Smile or TLOS.

What really pisses me off, though, is paying to have some clown f*** up the sound and someone else insist - crime of the century here - that Brian Wilson's voice is buried in the mix.  If BW wants to sing I wanna hear him.


* sh*t, does this mean I'm still a Blueboarder deep down?

I guess I just don't understand why there is this desire to turn Brian into a touring artist at, of all ages, when he's in his 50s/60s? He never was a fan of touring, even when he was in his 20s, and he wasn't touring when he recorded "California Girls" or Pet Sounds, so what's the point? Especially when touring seems to take so much out of him and constantly terrify him, even after doing it constantly for a decade! I understand that people say that it keeps him occupied, so that he's not just sitting on his couch watching TV Land and eating steak, but are there really no other ways to keep the man occupied?  It's either touring or he does nothing? That sounds silly to me, for some reason. As for needing the touring to the support the BW band, these guys somehow made it before BW, and I'm sure would be more than willing to help Brian record a solo album whether they toured with him or not. Think about it. If Brian asked you to help him record, would you say no? Most of those guys are at least as big of fans as us.

I think the touring happens for a lot of silly reasons.  Maybe Melinda likes traveling? Maybe the band likes playing for bigger crowds through the BW name? We're told that it's (partially) because Brian needs to see all of the love out there for him, but yet when he does an autograph session with fans, he always looks like he wants to be anywhere else in the world. I think touring Pet Sounds and SMiLE was a good idea, it did seem to have recuperative effects for Brian, but past that, enough is enough.

That's a very good post.

I wonder what would happen if Brian suddenly woke up one morning and said "I'm done being Brian Wilson"? I mean, HE is the musician here. Are his band members going to sue him? Would his own wife sue him? It just boggles my mind how Brian could be left out of any type of decision making, when HE is the one who does the singing and recording. HE is the one who is at the center of it all. His band members are the employees, and Brian is their boss. Not the other way around.

I've given statements from eyewitnesses about Brian's current problems but because I protect my sources Brian's biggest fans don't believe me. Even if they were told by someone directly they wouldn't believe them.

True... but remember, we're talking about Brian Wilson here: not only will he usually take the path of least resistance, often at his own expense, but he's also no mean manipulator in his own right. We're talking comfort zone here.

Wow, that 1978 performance would only be made complete with Elaine from Seinfeld on the stage doing an interpretive dance on roller skates.

For Melinda as well she also gets fame by association. Much better for her to be married to a touring music legend than to be married to a `weirdo` who hadn`t toured properly for decades.

For Leaf, he gets to live out his dreams through Brian.

The band get to play in front of relatively large audiences and have more fame than they ever would have had otherwise.

I`m not saying that any of them are uncaring towards Brian at all but it serves all of their purposes to have Brian out touring regularly.

Good points, except


Not no more he don't.

Why not?

I want to make something clear, just for the sake of making it clear.

I very much appreciate the folks (AGD among them) writing about BW and his touring, etc. The insiders' information is valued. It's an important body of knowledge that we would not have otherwise. I also appreciate folks posting their varied impressions. It frustrates me sometimes, but it's a wide-ranging, informed discussion, which is always more important than toeing whatever party line.

I am not -- as posts might suggest -- a total BW apologist. I think it is arguable that the greatest hits shows aren't a great use of Brian's time, and I also think it's arguable that he's been over-toured. But I also find myself very skeptical of the "Brian as unwitting victim" narrative -- just because it's so easy, so often repeated, and because I don't know if it really captures the complexities of the current situation. Carlin's book does a good job of tackling the issue. So I like to challenge folks on the "everything is horrible" assumption -- just as the "everything is always peachy and great" narrative is often challenged.

To me, I keep coming back to the material Brian recorded with Scott in the summer of 06. Just Like Me and You, Message Man, Oh Mi Amor, I'm Into Something Good, the TLOS songs -- this is great, solid work. I never thought current-day Brian was capable of it. And if you hear the demos, you hear that piano sound, those overdubbed vocals -- it's very pure BW.

And I listen to that material, and how totally in command Brian sounds, and remember that in the summer of 06, we on this board were posting epic threads on how Brian wasn't in control of his life. And it reminds me of how complex these situations are, and how little it's possible to know what's really in another human being -- even one as well-known and innocent-seeming as Brian Wilson.

Agree  with you about the TLOS outtakes.  See, to me that's what Brian should be doing, just doing music whenever he feels like it...the results speak for themselves.

I have always liked the idea of Brian doing one-off singles like "Child of Winter" or "Walking Down the Path of Life" primarily. Whenever he feels the urge to write and record, just let him do it and put it out as soon as it's finished.

Isn't the point here that he was able to do these things (ie write and record new material) because, for a vanishingly small amount of time) Brian was NOT surrounded by his keepers but left to do as me wanted. When he's free he appears happy and productive, but when he's on a leash or timetable he's miserable and unproductive, just like me and everyone else ever 8)

Great thread!

The question was asked earlier about what role Brian could play onstage at any reunion. I have no problem hearing him sing Carls leads. In fact it would be easier on his voice than a full BW set list as he tires near the end of his solo shows IMO.