The Smiley Smile Message Board

Are they really a band worth listening to?

That's Why God Made The Radio doesn't count since that was the first "healthy" Brian Wilson led Beach Boys album since what, Pet Sounds?

Everything after Light Album up through Stars & Stripes is just expendable to me.

Dennis is a bigger loss to The Beach Boys than John Bonham is to Led Zeppelin, yet only one of those bands has called it quits.


What?

I quite like their self-titled album, but otherwise I can live without post-Dennis Beach Boys. Unless of course solo Brian and Carl stuff made it onto the later Beach Boys albums.

They probably would've become the same group anyway. It was the 80s, they had become a concert draw more than anything else and Brian obviously didn't feel like being the leader in the studio.

Hardly anything after LA is worth listening to. A track or two on KTSA, BB85 production that the one good track is also slightly exhausting, everything after can only be liked by the fanboys. TWGMTR isn't bad, but it's hardly outstanding either. Mostly it caters to the fans, not gonna bring in many new fans imo.

After 1979 the production just never sounded like The Beach Boys any more.

But... what does that even mean? That suggests that everything from The Surfer Moon to Little Honda to I'm Waiting For The Day to Mrs O'Leary's Cow to She's Going Bald to A Thing Or Two to Feel Flows to Johnny Carson to Angel Come Home to Here Comes The Night (1979) sounds the same... which it plainly doesn't. All of that disparate assembly was by the Beach Boys... so why don't Why Won't They Let Us Fall In Love? (1980), Getcha Back, You're Still A Mystery, Think About The Days and Beaches In Mind belong in the 'canon' as well? They're no less different in sound than some of the 1961-79 stuff, stylistically speaking. I would even say there are more similarities than differences.

I too used to think that you could just forget about everything in the Beach Boys's catalogue after the tag of Airplane had faded out at the end of Love You (actually, for a while before that, I thought you could forget about everything after the fadeout of Cool, Cool Water). Whether it's because I have grown more forgiving of the Boys, or because I have come to appreciate them more the more I've listened to them, I no longer think so. Sure, after some indeterminate time in the 70s (left deliberately undefined here, as my taste changes continually), I like less of their output overall. And the good stuff in the Beach Boys' output becomes, I think it's fair to say, harder to find as the decades passed. But thes days I think you can cherry-pick some pretty fine tracks from their '75 to '14 releases. The problem is, everyone's idea of what passes muster is probably different...! I have my list, and I bet if you think about it, you have yours too. Mine used to have just one track on it: just one song that I thought was worth bothering with after 1975 (Baby Blue). But my list has grown a lot since then...

production sounds changed for sure, but all the production pre-1980 was at least rather good sounding. MIU wasn't great but it still sounded organic to some extent. 1980 and afterwards is just glitzy cheese production or worse. TWGMTR is a little better than MIU in terms of production but even that feels a little overproduced.

Spot on analysis!

From time to time the Beach Boys haven't sounded like the Beach Boys. Is CATP really by the same band as Surfer Girl? BBs85 really by the band that broke the mould with PS? Concert really the same band who gave us In Concert?

This band gave us more variety than any other. Pick & mix by all accounts. I love them all, for heir own sake.





















Except Surfin' on SiP.

Right, John, absolutely. Or (my all-time personal head-f**k) — can the same guy that gave us 'Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder)' *really* be the same guy croaking his way through 'Just Once In My Life', or 'Sherry She Needs Me' a few years later...? Or, for that matter, 'Good Time' and 'Johnny Carson' (adjacent tracks on the same album...)!!!!

Unfortunately... yes...!

I've thought about this. I've always kinda wondered what an alternate reality where Dennis didn't die would be like.  I still can't imagine him doing Kokomo though haha.

By Cabinessenceking's thinking John, you're nothing but a fucking fanboy thinking and liking The Beach Boys the way that you do.

Yeh, I don't imagine things would have been very different ... maybe some cameo Dennis moments on some of the albums. I could see something like the '85 album being exactly as it was ... maybe Dennis would have played some of the keyboards or something.

Good to hear from you again Donny!

I have imagined Dennis singing some of the vocals on BB85.  For example, She Believes in Love Again.  I think Bruce was kind of going for that rougher edge to his vocal that Dennis would have naturally brought (assuming we forget about his 1983 era voice!).

I also feel that I'm glad the group kept going because IMHO there have been many great Beach Boys moments on subsequent albums, albeit less frequently.

It seems from the mid-70's onward, the band was kind of rudderless studio-wise. No clear leader, producer to guide them. While all of the albums made in that time are all different from another, the quality is also all over the place, as well. Plus, you add in the drug addiction, the personal confrontations, Landy, it all really made a mess of things.

I think the 33 second mark of this clip from Endless Harmony puts an exclamation point on The Beach Boys post Dennis:

http://youtu.be/HTGoCpuqqxM

Is there a place for a fucking fan boy on a fucking fans' message board like this?

It's not polite to say "fan boy" on this board.  C'mon, have a little class, eh?

I've grown up with this band since I was 5 years old. I am now 57 years old. I guess that makes me a "fan-man" and that's ok. Like my wife being the love of my life, the Beach Boys have always been the musical love of my life. I make no bones about it. If I am a fan-boy, so be it.

LA - I think it's the last "group" album - the last album featuring contributions from all the different members that began with 20/20.  To me, it fits in the 20/20 / SUNFLOWER / SURF'S UP / CARL & THE PASSIONS / HOLLAND canon.

KEEPING THE SUMMER ALIVE - a good album fatally weakened by what was left off.  The intent was to do something rougher, more roots, more rock & roll, grittier, with songs that celebrate their past and future.  Brothers, Cousins & Friends was a great original title and concept.  With tracks like Surfer Suzie, the 1980 mix of Can't Wait Too Long, Goin to the Beach, San Miguel, The Lord's Prayer, etc. this might have been a great album.  Listening to it in its present form it sounds like one of those Capitol budget cut-downs of their 1960s albums, with missing tracks.  Where's the rest of it was my reaction when I first heard it.

THE BEACH BOYS - like LA, an attempt to sound contemporary (for 1985) and another "group" effort in that canon I mentioned above.  It retrospect, almost 30 years on, it sounds good, to my ears.

STILL CRUISIN' - if this had included Rock & Roll to the Rescue, California Dreaming and Runaway live - in place of those 60s tracks this would have been a cool album.

SUMMER IN PARADISE - to my ears, weak songs in places - but also some ear candy.  A sequel to M.I.U., if you will.  Some dross along with the good.

STARS & STRIPES - the only real loser in the bunch, to my ears.  And I love country music.  Warmth of the Sun, 409, Caroline No and I Can Hear Music (with those incredible Carl bg parts) are delightful but you can have the rest.

But it's all Beach Boys.  And some of it is damned fine.  And, to my aging years (55 in August; saw my first BB concert at age 16)... it all sounds a bit better with age.

<< For example, She Believes in Love Again.  I think Bruce was kind of going for that rougher edge to his vocal that Dennis would have naturally brought (assuming we forget about his 1983 era voice!).>>

At the risk of mindless speculation, I don't think this was an artistic choice.  I could be wrong, but something odd happened to Bruce's voice in the early 80s.  It was rougher, sounding almost damaged, if you compare his vocal on this track to his vocal on Endless Harmony.  If you've heard the 1980 Philly Spectrum show, there's a definite moment in the live version of "Goin On" when Bruce blows out his higher register.  It's painful to listen to.  I wonder if this was just some vocal deterioration.

Lately I have been drawn uncontrollably to LA, KTSA, BB85 & SIP.  I've always loved LA.  The latter 3 I've owned since their release, but did not like much at all and almost NEVER bothered to listen to. 

I really like Dennis's contributions to LA. He was pretty much absent after that. People like to paint Mike as the bad guy. Imagine that you are the guy at a job who always shows up and works your ass off while another long time coworker shows up most of the time but may not be fit to do their job. Sometimes they don't even come at all. The best work that they have done in recent years has been moonlighting. Would you start to resent them?

There was a beach boys post Dennis...?

I think Steve Latshaw has a good point above ... I think L.A. was a sort of attempt to make a 20/20-So Tough type album again ... an 'artistic' record with a couple BW productions, a lot of Carl & Dennis, some out of character stuff that was (in retrospect) maybe pandering to the times a little bit.

There's that interview with Mike around 1979-80, where he's saying something like, "We've learned our lesson; the fragmentation doesn't work ..." ... Keepin' the Summer Alive seemed to be a reaction to that formula NOT working ... like, 'get Brian in the studio, be a GROUP again' ... so the songs all fit together a little better, but there's no edge. Really though, not a bad album, just kinda bland.

Dennis was in the group at that time, but the record doesn't show it at all. So I can't imagine that the records that followed would have been all that different. I'm sure there would be a token Dennis track here and there though.

Aside from Brian's contributions, I don't think there's much worth listening to from the group after Keepin' the Summer Alive, which I do still find listenable, though far from great. And Brian's stuff is often bogged down by outside producers and '80s sound of it all. It gets worse with each record ... BB85 is worse that KTSA, Still Cruisin is worse than '85, SIP is the worst of all ... until Stars & Stripes, which is the absolute low point for the Beach Boys' recorded career in my opinion. In fact, I'm not sure I even count it as a BB record. I certainly don't own it.

I think if Brian were to have made an album under his full control in the '80s, it would have been great ... like an '80s Love You. 'Male Ego' is the one '80s BB track I really do love.

I'm still on the fence about That's Why God Made the Radio. I would say it's on par with Keepin' the Summer Alive I suppose.

For me, The Beach Boys, as a group, died when Dennis died. Various combinations of surviving Beach Boys have been around since then, but the group as an entire group died with Dennis. I happen to enjoy KTSA and '85 fpr what they are. new Beach Boys music.  After those lps, things are bleak until That's Why Got Made Radio. The exception to this for me on the Nashville album is Caroline No with Timothy Schmidt. It would be a thing of beauty on ANY Beach Boys album.

I think the quality dropped after Holland in 73. Though Love You is one of my favorite albums. Also, the Beach Boys songs sounded contemporary through Still Cruisin. Yes, I said it. A lot of pop bands were had a similar production style at the time. Doesn't mean I like it. Summer in Paradise is the first album that sounded dated when it first came out. Even Brian's solo stuff is mostly dated. Though, TLOS and RIG have a timeless production quality. Disney and TWGMTR have moments, but for the most part sound dated.

I think we've most certainly missed out on some cool Dennis tracks, had he cleaned up (even just a little bit) and kept writing, it's almost doubtless a song or two of his would have made it's way onto the albums.

Aw, hell yeah. Could you imagine some of the Bambu tracks with the super-dated 80's production? Time For Bed? Wild Situation?

Plus, yeah, he would have come up with some more great songs.

For me, The Beach Boys, as a group, died when Carl died. We've had various releases from the survivors since then - mostly Brian- and very few of these have added any real value to the 'canon'. Of course BWPS was great when it came out, but since then we've got TSS, which is the version I always put on now, and TLOS was a major work, but otherwise, I always go for the 60s/70s/80s stuff.

My question..  why no Dennis songs on KTSA?  If Bamboo was already scrapped then why let these great songs go to waste? 

I don't have the dates in front of me, but wasn't Dennis fired around this time because of substance abuse? I wonder if they were trying to clean up their image as well. The rough vocals of Dennis, or Brian for that matter, didn't quite fit that. Although LA. Light Album has plenty of Dennis.  I wonder if when Carl cleaned up, he voted to clean  up the bands image along with Mike and Al.

Or it may have simply been that Dennis didn't want his songs on the album.

I seem to recall AGD`s liner notes saying something of the sort and mentioning that he showed considerable distaste for the material (rightly).

The twofer liner notes say, (Endless Harmony)..."is the only cut on the album to feature Dennis Wilson (percussion): expressing considerable distaste for the material and undergoing problems with other band members (hence his  absence in the Goin' Platinum television program devoted to the making of the album), he took no further part in the sessions, the drumming chores falling to Gary Mallaber, Ricky Fataar and Scott Matthews (who at one point was reported to have replaced Dennis in the band)." Dated the year 2000 AGD

The blue version of The Complete Guide say: "...and, as with the MIU project, Dennis was all but absent, dissatisfied with the material and weary of the continuing feud between the Wilsons and the Love/Jardine duo." Dated the year 2004 AGD