The Smiley Smile Message Board

From BW's Facebook page:



Is that Lizik on bass? Is he back?

As I said on the thread I put up just about simultaneously, I thought it looked like a soundcheck.

Definitely does, yeah. But most importantly: Brian's back at work and Nicky Wonder is back, as well as... Bob Lizik?  :-D

I don't think it's a recent picture

Never mind

Magnifying it, does look rather like Lizik. Show starts at 9 Central according to the press release I found online (http://media.baylorhealth.com/releases/-the-party-offers-cure-for-the-summertime-blues, put up last week). I wonder if any guests might turn up...in a white suit, even.

Brian's played his share of HOBs but I can't recall if he's "done Dallas" before. (Warning to M&Bistas - non-family-friendly allusion there.)

Well, he certainly had no problem resuming his solo career... ::)

I expect eighty-seven fucking pages filled with anti-Brian sentiment. If you're going to bitch about Michael doing the same thing BE FUCKING CONSISTENT ABOUT IT.

ZING! You're so clever! Not.

Brian does Dallas!  Where's Debbie?  Where's Taylor?

Hey, there's one Tasty Brother - all we need is Jimmy Hines and we got two back! 

Cool to see Bob Lizik back on bass, even if it might be temporary.

Time heals all wounds?

It would be interesting to know what kind of thumbs-up the band got on it. At Facebook, Probyn gave no indication that this was afoot. (Neither did Jeff, but then Jeff never gives no indications nohow.)

Brian Wilson isn't promoting himself as The Beach Boys.

Because Brian's not authorized to promote his band as "the Beach Boys"; he DID, however, vote to authorize Michael to promote his band as "the Beach Boys".  Just saying. For all of the malarkey about "WHY CAN'T THEY GO ON?!?!", this has received a rather...muted response. I know that double standards are something to be proud of in the Brianista world, but...

(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/enzymeF/Setup/GIFs/sigh.gif)

I completely understand that the reunion tour was finite. I know the logistics of why they cannot go on. I only ever dispute the fact that M&B should tour as "The Beach Boys" so close in proximity to the end of the 50th celebration. I know M. Love has the right to tour under that name, but if his thing is about not cheapening the legacy of the band, well....

Even if he could, you think Brian would tour as The Beach Boys if he was the only original member? Doubt it.
And, yeah, I like Brian Wilson more than I like Mike Love. On a lot of different levels.

I agree with your first paragraph. Just saying that for all of the freaking out over things going back to how they were before the reunion (even when we all knew it would end), Brian's return to solo performing has seen zero response. I'm just pointing out a glaring hypocrisy.

And would Brian tour as the Beach Boys if he was the only original member? He's said himself he'd rather have Michael do it, so I doubt it. I also never say never.

Wellllllllllllllllllllllll.................

No, no...it's Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen...

Wow, it really turned that quickly into a "Seeeeeeeee???  Brian's doing it too!"

No, Brian doing solo gigs isn't the same thing at all. First of all, it sounds like Brian wanted to do more reunion gigs and may not have even been able to do this gig if the reunion had kept going. Brian wanted more reunion gigs, Mike did not. So no, this isn' t the same at all.

Oh yeah, and there's the little extra bit of info concerning that fact that Brian isn't calling his band "The Beach Boys."

Mike is doing his gigs as "The Beach Boys", and is doing so at the exclusion of more reunion gigs. Brian is doing a solo gig, and we don't even know when he agreed to the gig.

So if Brian or Al or David, who all wanted to do more reunion gigs, now go do some solo or alternate gigs instead of staying home and being the "old man yelling at a cloud", that isn't anything like what Mike has done. Sorry, not even close. If Brian had secretly planned to also ditch the reunion and do solo gigs only, I'm sure one of Mike's "clarification" statments would have informed us of this fact.

What will be interesting to find out (if we do) is how far ahead this was planned. It would be so hilarious if it was found out this was planned while the 50th tour was in progress (or before...), it would confirm that everything in the recent press has been a load of bullshit.

It's not hypocrisy - there's a world of difference between Brian doing a one-off show under his own name and Mike playing shows calling his band The Beach Boys.  This was true even before the reunion tour, but the disparity is even greater now that we've seen the real Beach Boys in action.

As was stated in the other thread, if Brian booked shows for himself using the Beach Boys name (forget the licensing issue for the moment - we all agree that the name has more meaning than what's written on a contract), he would be rightfully subjected to the same criticisms.  But in playing this show, Brian is doing no disrespect to the Beach Boys name, and the same can't be said for Mike.

Additionally, unless Brian booked this solo show months in advance, it isn't the same as Mike booking a "Beach Boys" show during the middle of the reunion tour.  Mike has already seemingly ruled out more reunion shows, at least for the time being, so this strikes me as more of a reactive move by Brian, dissimilar to the proactive move made by Mike in booking October "Beach Boys" shows.

Correct, I believe. This is Brian saying, I'll show you. Anyway, I think it's a great move.

How can you compare Brian doing a solo show under the name "Brian Wilson" to Mike and Bruce booking a tour under the name "The Beach Boys" apparently against Brian and Al's wishes.

Strange argument

Mike (and Historical) play a benefit for a hospital then go to Waco. Brian plays a benefit for a hospital...that's in Waco. Is this what Jan's old pals Stan and Ollie would call tit for tat?

Why would you think the show *wasn't* booked months in advance?

Let me get in here before this thread morphis into another "Why Mike Love shouldn't tour as 'The Beach Boys' thread Part 25"


Brian is back doing his solo shows, and he's back as the front man carrying the whole show.  I wonder how this first show will be?   Brian is a pro and I'm sure will pull through but I'd bet he really enjoyed himself as a Beach Boy considering his role was slghtly more restrained in that arrangement.  Mike Love took most of the leads and Brian came in here and there for leads but mainly sang background and played piano whenever he felt like it.  He really can't slide by that easily as a solo performer.  

BRAVO Brian. I'd like to think that this is Brian's way (his camp's way) of giving the finger to the Mike Love phoney baloney road show. No love and mercy from me, jack. I like gettin' even.

And to echo other comments on this thread, it's not the same as touring as 'da Beach Boys'. Not at all. No matter what lawyers draw up on hotel napkins. Screw Mike, Bruce and Stamos. Rock over London, Rock on Dallas, Brian Wilson...he jus' wasn't made for these times.

Ya know?!

One thing seems interesting...I guess Brian really is starting to enjoy performing more than he used to...

Whew, it's a good thing Mike didn't comply with Brian's wish and call him to join The Beach Boys on stage tonight....

There's nothing wrong with what Brian is doing in resuming his solo career. He's been doing that for years and Mike has been doing his thing for years, with Brian's full permission via Brian's vote in BRI.  It's going to be okay.  :afro

Back to the awful status quo of 1998-2011 right now. Brian really came into his own when he didn't have to be frontman. Mike and Bruce are a disgrace to keep using the BBs name when the rest of the group wants to stay together.

One of the interviews Dave talked about an eye infection caused by a bug bite while playing with 'his group' in between C50 gigs.

Al's site has had a 'booking' link forever, including all C50 tour.

Brian playing a private gig, booked who knows when and 'working in the studio' during the C50.

Mike and Bruce, enough already!


The point is they all had other irons in the fire all C50. None of them had any intention of becoming full time Beach Boys post the grammy show. It's all a 'bunch of stuff!' to borrow a line.

Jesus....enough already! Enjoy the glow of this year and if there's more in the future lets discuss it then. Before then attend what ever shows you want but I'm over this nit picking and the 'use of the Beach Boys name' round-a-bout..

Brian is not performing as, nor claiming to be, the Beach Boys.

However, Mike and Bruce are doing so. After this summer, one of those situations is intolerable.

Got that right, I can't stand the M&B show using the BBs name anymore. They have been leaching off the legacy for 14 years.

Um, yeah, I guess Brian should stay home forever just to prove that Mike broke up the reunion.  ???

Also, I don't think Brian's idea of keeping the reunion going was ever simply jumping on stage with Mike's band. That's one of the reasons the reunion shows were so amazing, it was the entire band blowing us away night after night.

It's completely false logic to use a solo Brian gig to, what, prove Brian has made the whole thing up and never wanted the reunion to continue?

You Boys will have to get over it because who or what is the Beach Boys ain't our call.

Nobody as far as I can tell has ever claimed Brian didn't give permission to Mike to use the BB name. The objection is to Mike putting the brakes on more reunion gigs.

Everything will indeed be okay, we as fans will all obviously survive whatever ends up happening with this debacle. But if no more reunion gigs happen, it won't negate the fact that that is a bummer.

Nobody ever said it was "our" call.  ???

Pointing out the irony or whatever one wants to point out of Mike using the name is not the same as "not getting over it."

It is funny, though, that, as I've mentioned before, Mike has taken some BB fans on an interesting rollercoaster. Some fans intensely disagreed with him using the name after 1998, but then by 2011 many had accepted it or tolerated it or learned to block it out, etc. Then Mike amazingly got himself in the good graces of a lot crusty, curmugeonly, cynical BB fans doing this tour..... and now it's all undone. It really is fascinating, and I don't even mean that in a sarcastic or hyperbolic way.

Exactly. This subject is gettin' old. Time to make up some other worthwhile topics to discuss.

Brian does a one-off and we're back regurgitating that Mike & Bruce fake Beach Boys bullshit again. You don't like it? Boycott the Mike & Bruce shows. Nuttin' you can do about it but hope for another reunion next year. Which I don't see happening, but never say never.

Get over it, people!  Move on!

It has NEVER been a reunion! Everybody else has called it that. It has been billed from day one as a 'Celebration'.

No reunion, no putting the breaks on it. The Celebration had a start date and an end date which all, including Mike, took the breaks off, and extended.

Its simple really and has been explained so many times over countless pages on a dozen threads even a tool like me can understand it!

Well, first of all I usually use the term "reunion" to easily reference the pre-October lineup. Gee, why can't we just call the band that toured this summer "The Beach Boys" when discussing all of this? Oh yeah, that's because Mike uses the name for an alternate lineup......

More to the point, this is actually the first I've heard of this new tact in this debate of simply redefining what a "reunion" is, thus creating the illusion that all of a sudden, no reunion ever took place! That is a creative way of doing it.

The band has said in interviews they were "reuniting. " I suppose the actual tour program didn't state "Beach Boys Reunion", but to simply redefine this as clearly a "celebration" rather than a "reunion" is ridiculous. Under that reasoning, anybody on any stage could be "celebrating" the Beach Boys.

I think that is right, anyone can be the Beach Boys as long as they are under license by BRI.

This year Mike has delivered on everything I suspect he signed up for. Album, interviews, TV performances and 50 celebration/ reunion concerts.

He then agrees to another 20 plus over 2 months or so spread over 2 hemispheres.

Take a look back over any of my posts over the years. I've put down Mike just as much as the rest of us here. I'm no Mikeanista if there is such a thing but he did not end this thing in 2012. If anyone here thought the C50 group was going to turn up to the charity event immediately after London then fly on to Waco or wherever the next show was you are fooling yourselves. For Brian and Al to imply they thought things were going to continue, I'm assuming over the following few months, was utter nonsense.

Mike is quoted that he can not fire Brian from the Beach Boys. I take that as an invitation for him to sit in with Mike and Bruce when ever he feels like it. I've found tour dates listed up to April next year so he can take his pick.

Of course its silly and not going to happen but can we all get over this idea that someone has called a halt to the C50?

Wonder how long of a show this will be (given it is a charity event), and what the set list will be like. If it's a fairly long show, I wouldn't be surprised to see Summer's Gone in the line up.

It will be interesting to see in reviews or blogpists about the show whether Brian says anything pertaining to the sitcheeashun.  One expects M&B to just walk out and do their stuff as if the last nine months hadn't happened. But with Brian....

Wait... My buddies and I can be "The Beach Boys" as long as I abide by the BRI license?! What wonderful news!

My God, we can all be The Beach Boys. What a relief. See guys? It doesn't matter how long you've been with the band, or what songs you've written or even if you founded the band! Anyone can do it, as long as you honor some contract.

The legacy is safe.

Whether you call it a reunion or a celebration (it was both) doesn`t change anything. It was done for the 50th anniversary and everybody knew it would be finite.

Apparently. Knock yourself.

The license belongs to the Mike & Bruce team, so no.

Based off of a hunch, I expect just a 'hits' show tonight.

Oh I dunno....HeyJude has just entered the discussion.  That's another 20 more pages we can expect to be added to this thread!

Yeah, Jude entered the discussion on the other long thread too, and it was done to death.  You guys milked it for all it was worth!  It's old hat now!

Jude is passionate about the band (as I am) but there comes a time when you gotta throw in the towel and say, "They're gonna do what they wanna do and we can't do anything about it".

Ya know?

Maybe it takes this board to get it out of everybody's systems and be done with it. Yeah, that's it.

Oh every single one of us is passionate about the band and I completely understand how this subject can get people revved up.  This place is meant for us to discuss these things for as long as we want but how many more different threads do people want to drag the conversation back to all this again?  People are regurgitating the same stuff as if trying to "win" an argument or "convert" people to help people finally "get it" and see things their way.  In my book, everybody is right regarding this subject.  But at the end of the day: we can't do a damn thing about the situation.

Like you said, at one point you have to throw in the towel and accept that at the end of these "discussions" there is nothing but a dead end.  A big, tall dead end. 

Moving on to the show itself...here's a photo just been took, and some Twittering about it....
http://instagram.com/p/QtIiQSIvPw/

As long as it's not on the teleprompter, I think we'll be ok!

Right on, Justin.  Agreed with everything you said there.

A feller named Justin - not our Justin - who was at the House Of Blues put up a photo of the setlist at http://instagram.com/p/QtUpe-ovK7/
For those not into clickin'-

California Girls
Dance Dance Dance
Catch A Wave
Shut Down
Little Deuce Coupe
Surfer Girl
Please Let Me Wonder
Then I Kissed Her
When I Grow Up
Don't Worry Baby
Do It Again
Do You Wanna Dance
Darlin'
I Get Around
Add Some Music
Sail On Sailor
Pet Sounds
Sloop John B.
Wouldn't It Be Nice
God Only Knows
Heroes & Villains
Good Vibrations

Encore:
Johnny B. Goode
Help Me Rhonda
Barbara Ann
Surfin' USA
Fun Fun Fun

Not that much different from a M&B list except a bit shorter....

So wierd to see him doing Johnny B Goode - I kinda thought that would stay out of the set list after the reunion tour was so good about only doing songs they recorded...

Johnny B. Goode is the closing track on Concert...

 Just stands,


Justin ,
The professor finds you imsightful and full of wisdom and insight
 

I visited the Brian website today and noticed it's now back to being brianwilson.com. During the reunion tour it was a tumblr site and blog style, as though it were a temporary place holder until they decided what direction was next. It seems to be transitioning back to Brian having a solo career again.

Ahh, It was so nice having them all together.

I miss it  :-\

I tried listening to the remastered surfer girl today, but this news of old friends drifting--or being ripped apart--is just starting to depress me. . . . .I can't imagine going to see BW or the BB again unless it's all of them. . . .I am so discouraged that I can't even use any big professor words to hide my pain

What in the blue f*** is he doing.

Good question, this is why the BBs need to stay together.

A private show for a six figure payday.

At least M&B did one for charity.

I just want all of my Beach Boys!

What is kind of strange about this is how left-field it seems. Actually, if Brian's people hadn't posted that rehearsal picture to facebook, we wouldn't have even found out until like a day after the damn thing actually happened.

To me it makes Brian and Al's post-C50 responses seem even more BS-ey. Maybe its just me.

Private Show means that the sponsor wanted the hits.

well...he wanted to continue the Beach Boys tour, Mike would'NT have any of it so he kinda has to resume what he does....? Correct me if I'm wrong. I still have hope that this 'rocknroll album' of his with the other Beach Boys will be worked on in the coming  year!

Brian says hi on October 13, 2012 [YouTube video] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUwEQYpQWos&feature=g-all-u)

Now I'd like to see some clips from the show....  :3d

Really, the issue for me (and I think for some others) is not that Mike or Brian or Al should give up doing solo gigs. I would expect everyone to want to continue to pursue their own personal projects, even if they continue to work  together as a group.  I don't expect it to be "All Beach Boys All the Time" for any of them. As a matter of fact, it's really a healthier situation for them to work separately, then come together for special Beach Boy projects.  By working separately, they get to do things their way, without the compromise necessary for the group as a whole.  But, we don't have people doing solo projects then coming back together as The Beach Boys. We have some doing solo projects and The Beach Boys lite on tour.

The problem is one of perception and the use of the Beach Boys name.  Yes, Mike has the right to tour with that name, and before C50, I didn't see any problem with that. I went to several Mike/Bruce shows, and they were pretty good.  But, C50 was out of the park compared to those shows, and changed my expectations for The Beach Boys. Without intending to, the Boys one-upped themselves.  C50 showed what they were capable of. It generated excitement, and renewed interest and respect for the band name and brand.  By going back out with a stripped down Beach Boys, Mike as hit a big reset button on all of that. If Mike and Bruce were touring as "Brother Love's Traveling Salvation Show and Summer Fun Extravaganza featuring John Stamos," I'd say good for them.  I'd wish Mike well on his small town tours and would look forward to whatever he did with the Beach Boys.  But, he's made it clear he intends to continue things as they were, and that saddens me a bit because of the lost potential.

Maybe he should just tour his solo material on his solo tours?

Brian's shows aren't very well attended as it is, very, very few people would see him if he was only performing solo material.

Com'on. That's such a blanket statement.

A clever setlist with some pre-publicity in certain markets, and you'll be able to sell your modest sized theaters. If you wanna, that is. I've been there, have you? I haven't seen an embarrassing sea of empty seats. That being said, I'm talking something akin to his early years of touring when he played large clubs and old vaudeville theaters - talkin' 1,000 seaters.

I've heard a few theaters had some seas if empty seats during the TLOS tour. I'd think an oldies tour would sell close to what M & B, if correctly marketed and packaged, as you say.  He did two nights at the Hollywood Bowl advertised as an oldies only gig and I read that sold pretty well. In his hometown, which is a good market for him.

Ive passed on seeing some of Brian's solo shows because I wasn't interested in hearing yet another live attempt at Barbara Ann, Help Me  Rhonda and California Girls by Brian and his band. If they did a show spotlighting more of his solo stuff, I'd be there! So many great songs they've never even attempted live - Melt Away, Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight, Rio Grande, or for that matter, any Orange Crate Art material.

So it's exactly identical, except for the bit that's completely different.  Yeah, hell of a double standard, there.

And again -- Brian doing solo gigs in between continuing gigs with the Beach Boys would be no more of an issue for people than when he was doing it around 1988.  Because no one sent out a press release saying that the group was ditching members, with no sign of them ever playing with the group again.

Regards,
Jon Blum

True, Brian's people asked Mike's people to do that for Brian.

So what was the setlist?

It's on Page 3 of this thread.

They did not. They asked specifically that Mike inform the markets that he and Bruce were playing in that the band was not the fully reunited group. There's a world of difference between that and what Mike actually did, which was seeming to slam the door on any attempt to keep the full lineup viable in the future.

First you have to believe only Brian's press release. Otherwise that's what Mike did except not slamming the door on the future which is just an opinion of a few fans based on something not said as far as I can tell.

No, you can believe both Brian's and Mike's statements, and recognize that the difference between the two of them is down to poor communication.  Which in turn resulted in a disastrously worded press release which gave far more than "a few fans" the impression that the reunion lineup is over and done for good -- hence their followup statements.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

OK, we only disagree on "disastrously" and "few".

I've always wondered what makes people want to hear California Girls again and again and again... I mean, I'm a pathological Love You listener, but that doesnt really scale with the general public ALWAYS wanting California Girls. It's like they would riot if it wasnt included. Would be great if Brian did some tours featuring his best Pet Sounds, Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, Love You and solo material like Rio Grande and Melt Away. He has tonnes of good stuff which is not really Beach Boys associated music. Guess people just want Cal Girls. I'll bet if Lennon were alive he wouldnt be touring 'I Want To Hold Your Hand'....

Maybe Brian could focus a tour featuring HIS music and touring some of the more cultural cities in America and Europe, I'm sure he would gain an audience without CalGirls having to be in the setlist. Certainly not the god-aweful Little Deuce Coupe!

Because California Girls is bloody amazing. I would be miffed if they didn't play it when I saw them.

Like, I'd maybe understand if you phrased that as 'why doesn't Brian/Mike/Bruce/Al etc unleash a bloodrending primal scream at those opening bars when they play it live' your point would make sense but an audience want to hear that song, because it's a great song and because they are fans of the band who perform that song.

What's the problem?


Also, the blinding hole in your argument - Brian really likes California Girls and he wants to play it. Duh.

God awful? California Girls and Little Deuce Coupe are NOT Kokomo. They're really well constructed pop songs, particularly CA Girls. I agree with your sentiment for some of the more obscure stuff. I'd love to see Rio Grande live. But in the shows I've seen the biggest response has been to the songs like CA Girls, Dance Dance Dance, etc. Remember when Brian and his band did I'd Love Just Once to See You? Great! But I think the response was a lot less enthusiastic, because that song is not as well known. Plus, it doesn't rock in a concert setting, so even diehards are apt to just sit and listen. Brian Wilson is not Lennon. He can't fill a theater, and he's not a dynamic performer. In some ways, the songs are the performer here, and he needs to pick the ones that get the best response. That said, I would love if he would do a set of REALLY obscure stuff along with the hits in one show.

Wirestone - In the olden days, one could put an ad in the print media or on the local TV or radio and it would be targeted to inform ONLY that select market.  Now, almost everything is electronic and what was "local" is "global" in an instant. 

And, stepping back, I looked at C50 as a "window" of time, finite in design, and not a "door" to a permanent state of affairs.  And they would all go back to "status quo ante" after the window of performances.  I saw no slamming doors.  It was clear and unambiguous.  Mike went over and above the original "50 1st Dates" (sorry, I could not resist.)  :lol

More than one party had the need for that info. The venues, the ticket holders, media, etc. 

There are none so blind as those who will not see.  How this proceeds will likely stem from negotiating how they will take it from here. 

The tickets for Brian`s shows tend to be a lot more expensive though.

Personally if I had a choice to watch a greatest hits show then I would choose to see M&B perform those songs out of the two bands. I get the feeling that they want to be performing the hits whereas Brian is forced into it from time to time. Plus many of the Mike leads don`t suit Brian as well as other songs.

Absolutely. When Brian's band do an 'artier' show (for example the June 2002 tour, where they did the whole of Pet Sounds, six songs from Smile, songs from Friends and Love You and so on) they're the best band in the world. As good as, say, Mike, Bruce and David's 2008 tour was (where they did a 53-song set very similar to the reunion tour setlists, but with a few more rarities like Til I Die thrown in), Brian's band are simply better at that material.

But if you compare both bands doing a meat-and-potatoes churn-out-the-hits set, Mike's band wins. They play the songs with more enthusiasm, and you don't really need the subtlety that Brian's band is capable of if you're playing Surfin' USA.

The reunion shows were definitely the best of both worlds, but solo, Brian's band and show simply isn't cut out for an oldies market the way Mike's is -- and I don't think his band would want to play that.

We (meaning myself and several friends who get together and see M&B, BW, BB etc. whenever any of those perform nearby) view M&B as a "sing along" type show - ie. go, have a good time, hear the standards and sing along; while with BW we are more likely to sit and watch the main part of the show because its usually been something more novel (BWPS; BWPPS; Gershwin etc.) or the song list has the more intricate and "artsy" songs, until he does the set with the standards that one just has to stand up and sing/dance to. Nothing wrong with either; like them both. Always a satisfied customer after either show.

I will grant that the whole discussion has and continues to be beaten to death. But it's on-topic, and that's what discussion boards are supposed to be. I can only speak for myself, but I'm not frustrated or irate or anything of that nature, I'm enjoying the (sometimes) evolving discussion. But if everybody's done, then the discussion will die out. No problems as far as I'm concerned. 

I find numerous posts discussing solely how *other* posts are clogging up the board to be kind of ironic. Then the "this discussion is going nowhere" posts start taking up space and adding to the monotony.  :lol

I think it might be.

Once someone takes the ball and goes home so to speak, whatever anyone else does in reaction to that is just that, a reaction.

I think the evidence suggests, whether warranted or justified, it was not clear and unambigous to a lot of people, both inside and outside of the band. Howie Edelson mentioned he asked around about what would happen after the tour, and the response seemed to be very much ambiguity.

That's always how I looked at "C50." I remember thinking before it started that it would be interesting to see what would happen after the scheduled tour dates, both in terms of what was "likely" to happen, versus "possible", versus what I or any fan would want to happen.

In the absence of some formal announcement, as a result of a "meeting of the minds" as to a material change in circumstances, this C50 would probably be construed as a special "event" with a particularized purpose.  It was pretty clear.  (To me)  It was discussed as a final thing.  There is only one final event.  Death.  So, maybe, where there is "life, there could be hope."

And, I like to think of it as an "all star team" culled from the working bands, and then back to the Red Sox, Dodgers or Yankees!   Notwithstanding the fact, that the "all stars" used to be the "only game in town." Now, we have three entities.

Wishing it was different, won't make it so. All the moaning online won't change it either. When the band members have a "meeting of the minds" then things could change.  It is their business.  And it may happen, or there could be some hybrid arrangement.   ;)

Probably covering old ground here but because Brian has a tendency to change his mind (and I`m not trying to pin blame on him), it must make it tough for other people to plan around him.

It was his original intention that the album would be called Summer`s Gone and would signal the end. He then changed his mind.
It was then the intention that the tour would run for 50 dates. He then changed his mind.
It was then the intention that they would do 25 more. He then wanted to add to that.

Obviously going back in time he probably did intend never to play with Mike or Al again (although he obviously just says anything to get through interviews). He changed his mind about that too.

I`m sure that Mike feels that he has done everything that he agreed to and more...

Yeah, but Mike feels like he's capable of levitation. All parties are pretty nuts here. ESPECIALLY Al Jardine.

Brian from 2002 (pre Smile)

1. You're Welcome
2. Sail On Sailor
3. Dance Dance Dance
4. In My Room
5. I Get Around
6. Don't Worry Baby
7. Good Timin'
8. California Girls
9. Please Let Me Wonder
10. Sloop John B
11. Your Imagination
12. Keep An Eye On Summer
13. Melt Away 14. Meant For You
15. Friends
16. Forever
17. Busy Doin' Nothin'
18. Darlin'
19. Wouldn't It Be Nice
20. God Only Knows
21. Let's Go Away For Awhile
22. Pet Sounds
without telling Brian) 23. Wonderful
24. Cabinessence
25. Our Prayer
26. Heroes And Villians (Cantina Version)
27. Marcella
28. Do It Again
29. Good Vibrations

Encore 1: 30. Little Saint Nick
31. Surfer Girl
32. Barbara Ann
33. Help Me Rhonda
34. Surfin' USA
35. Fun, Fun, Fun

Encore 2:
36. Love & Mercy

pretty cool setlist

That is a solid set list. Is there a shoearm version floating around anywhere?

I'd love to know who was behind that setlist, I'd guess either Darian or Jeff. The lack of "Love You" tracks would explain Jeff's hand in it

Those guess know what the fans want to hear.

Actually, according to an incredibly obscure, nearly microscopic clause of the licensing contract, Mike Love arranges all of Brian's setlists as well, so we can blame him for that too! THE BASTARD!

Oh for Gods sake.   Everyone committed to more dates after the original 50; it wasn't  "Brian changing his mind". Brian, Alan and David all wanted to continue after the additional twenty some odd dates were added; there were offers on the table, but Mike and Bruce had prior commitments .This nonsense that it is tough to plan around Brian has gotten archaic; I have not seen him miss a solo show , an interview or anything else he has committed to in sixteen years, as well as every minute of every C50 sound check and concert. If he commits to something, he does it and is diligent about it.


And hammering any of them for doing solo  or private shows post C50 is unreasonable; Mike and Bruce (not sure they could do it as The Beach Boys during the tour) Alan ,David and Brian all had the capability before, during and after the C50 concerts to  play private shows ,as solo entities, just as Mike and Bruce have the right to resume touring as The Beach Boys  now that C50 has ended.

Ray, you're asking Brianistas to use both sides of their brain. A daunting task.

I'm not sure but as I understood it he wanted to call the laste Beach Boys album "Summer's gone" in '98 but that never happened. So it was a very different situation in 2012. But I am not certain about that

Well , I am asking everyone to use both sides of their brain ; no matter what "camp" you gravitate to.......I read pure nonsense coming from both sides on both SS.com and BW.com, and some of the stuff that is stated as "fact" is nothing more than personal opinion and conjecture.   I went to about  fifteen of the C50 shows and saw zero tension or problems between any of the guys; I think the quality of the concerts reflected this .

Things changed during the tour.  It got better.   Brian became enthralled with being a Beach Boy again. Mike toured with a healthy Brian Wilson for the first time since 1964. I dont know that either of them knew that going in. I can tell everyone this : Day one in Tuscon wasnt in the same light year as the RAH and Wembley shows.   Things changed.  

I could go on for hours !

Whew. You gotta go more in depth on this Mr. Lawlor! Please!

Please do.

Well, better to have well-informed rambling for hours than "fact" in dubious quotes, so please do! Maybe we could even dispense with sneers about "Brianistas" and mentions of Country Love for a few pages...

 How would you compare Tucson to the London stint, for starters?

If there's one thing that we've learned about entertainers (and in that term I am including professional athletes) over time is that there is no such thing as a permanent retirement in numerous cases. Someone announces they are "retired" and then down the road there's an offer to comeback - whether to play the sport again, perform a gig, a tour, a movie, a show whatever. If physically/mentally able to do so plus its lucrative enough to do so, its often undertaken. So, whether or not there were pronouncements that the C50 Tour was "the last time", or whatever, I did not/do not believe it - and it won't be a conclusive ending until health reasons (or the paying public) determine otherwise.

No need for the attitude. Mike has said that originally Brian was possibly only going to play a few of the concerts at major cities. There obviously was a change of mind to go from that to close to 75 shows.

The difference with Al and David is that they weren`t part of the decision making process to play 50 shows in the first place.

To answer the question about the contrast between Tuscon and London; the RAH concert was epic, and Wembley was a close second....I mean 61 songs , non stop at RAH and 55 at Wembley. Everyone on stage at the top of their game . Best back line The Beach Boys ever had in my opinion; John Cowsill pounding the snare like Dennis circa 1970; Brian playing keyboards (audible) on almost every song ; singing every background vocal.......singing a few falsetto lines (Please Let Me Wonder and Little Girl I Once Knew)   The vocals.  The guy next to me at RAH crying when Summers Gone closed the show. Sail On , Sailor. The look on Brian's face after Heroes and Villains at Wembley.   amazingly not missing Carl on All This is That. Al's vocals. Bruce holding the last note of Disney Girls at RAH, David leaning into Pet Sounds. Brian's vocal on I Guess I Just Wasn't Made For These Times echoing through RAH.   Just epic.

Tuscon was just the first show and nobody knew what we were going to get !  

My memory if the Joe Thomas interview is that he said that Brian decided while recording the album that he didn`t want to accept it was the last one so he decided to change the title. I could be wrong.

Thanks for stopping in here. I saw on youtube that Brian dedicated the second half of one of the UK gigs (Wembey?) to you (and Melinda) - and I think he made mention of you guys after one of the songs. Seemed like he was really happy and at ease knowing his friend and his wife were there supporting him. Won-won-won-wonderful.

Yes, here is the quote from Joe Thomas:

`He wanted the original title of the album to be Summer’s Gone. But he had so much fun with Mike and the guys that he scratched that about halfway through the recording process and insisted on changing the title to That’s Why God Made the Radio, because he really didn’t in a lot of ways want this to be the last Beach Boys record.`

Well.....I don't know where that info comes from.   Without all the principals agreeing to the original 50 dates there would have been no C50 tour as it happened. Nor would the rest of the dates have happened without agreement from all the principals  . The new offers had to be rejected because there could not be an agreement with all the principals

There`s a big difference between Brian, Al and David though isn`t there. Al doesn`t have a career. He was never going to turn down more shows and would have agreed to 75 right from the start if they`d been offered. David isn`t a BRI member so his opinion isn`t really that important.

My point is that the whole reunion was done in line with what Brian (or Melinda) wanted. Mike (or Jacqui) agreed to compromise and so we got what we got. Brian`s camp obviously have changed their minds about a lot of things to do with the Beach Boys both before and during the reunion. Mike hasn`t really as he clearly always intended to go back out with Bruce from October onwards. Hence the problem now.

I would be remiss if I did not mention at RAH you could really hear the complexity of Mikes bass parts

uh huh...




You may be the only one I see use that term commonly. 

Real Beach Boys was in work today complaining about "Brianistas"

His co-workers had no idea what he was talking about

Ray, that description of RAH & Wembley is fantastic! I loved the audience videos and you can tell everybody concerned was having an absolute blast. What are our chances of seeing a nice presentation of that footage next year, ya think? If the spirit moves you, grab the concerned parties by the lapels and whisper menacingly that we'll need more than 21 songs ala the upcoming Phoenix DVD! You'd think they'd do at least 50 what with the whole... 50 thing.  

You know, if the spirit moved you. Tell them DVD producers have a tendency to be set on fire sometimes. Be a real shame if a DVD producer who only stuck in edited highlights of 21 songs intercut with unenlightening interviews were to be set on fire, is all I'm saying.

I am very much enjoying Ron's analysis, which makes our need for the British shows to be seen and enjoyed for all time on DVD. Thank you sir.

But we are all mired in confusion about "what happens now." Unraveling the Gordian knot of agency and culpability has its discursive limits.
What happens now? Who know the answer, and who will tell us? Can't they simply release a BB statement assuring us of their good faith and (even tentatively concrete) plan for a new album?

One drop of cool water can calm the boiling rage of anxious woe.

You're turning into oldsurferdude.

Thanks for providing some much needed perspective here.

Again Ray makes more sense in 3-4 posts than multiple threads about the same subject over the last month.

Lesson? A few well placed words can ease many minds. Perhaps parties on all sides could learn something.

Totally agree with Pretty Funky (and many others) here.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this board Mr. Lawlor.  Your presence is informative, illuminating and refreshing.  We hope to hear more from you.

Thanks for the kind words; very nice of you !  Regarding releasing DVD's of RAH and all that, I have no clue nor not one iota of input....if I did , that show would be the centerpiece of any live concert release; on disc or DVD. I never thought I would see a better Beach Boys concert than February 1971 at Carnagie Hall in NYC; RAH was it; Wembley is in the discussion.

Not enough has been said about how great the band was/is on this tour....Jeff, Scott B, Darian , Paul ,Probyn, John, Mikie, Scott T , Nelson, Nicky ( till he took ill); and Ritchie Davis coming in to mix the show at RAH and Wembley ....none of this happens without those guys pumping it out every show, and re-creating the sound and feel of those great records.

I totally understand why Brian did not want it to end ....


 

 
 

Thanks for sharing, Ray. I guess part of the reason we're having this discussion is that Brian wasn't the only one who didn't want it to end.  I saw the guys in Cincinnati, and was blown away. I hope to one day see them together like this again. If not, it really was a great ride.

Erm, Ray, where were you sat at RAH? Wondering if that was me all teared-up during Summer's Gone…? !   Row 7…

John.   I was sitting right by you.....I thought I was in row 5 ......did you turn around and tell the guy behind you to shut the hell up as he had not stopped talking through the whole first half ? If so I guess I was in row 7 !

Ah, no, that guy was in Row 5, two rows in front of me!  Wish he'd had a word with the ladies in Row 6 after the intermission too!

Mike may have said that, but fact is that the tour contracts - before the extension - stipulated Brian's presence at all C50 shows.

Your premise that "the whole reunion was done in line with what Brian (or Melinda) wanted" is thought-provoking, but wasn't the case at all. There was considerable compromise on both sides, and the notion/agreement to even do a C50 tour goes back somewhat longer than most suspect. None of the events of recent times have been conceived in isolation. I'd wager there's been some pretty high-powered horse trading been going on for some time.

John.  That guy was next to me , so I was in row 5. Yes, the ladies in row 6 were loud and obnoxious and were guests ; same as the guy sutting next to them...i saw them all backstage by the bar, pre and post show.  Saw them at Wembley as well.  

Hey Mike Love fan boy, Brian was fired.  What do you expect him to do?  Wait around the house until Mike calls him up?

smh

Brian, by his own admission , was not fired. He just said it 'felt like' that.

Who's Ritchie Davis?

using context clues, he is a sound engineer.

You don't know much about the current nonsense, do you ?  ::)

Ritchie is a great sound engineer; he has been mixing Brian's shows for several years. He also engineers for Buffett.  The mix at RAH and at Wembley had huevos !

Read the last four weeks' worth of threads and articles and then come back with a response when your facts are straight.

Why, thank you Aegir!

"And Ritchie Davis coming in to mix the show at RAH and Wembley".

If I'd taken the time to actually read Ray's post instead of scanning it, I woulda picked up on that, huh?

P.S. Thanks, Ray!

Eggs ?  ???

I think the correct term would be "cojones".

Yes, eggs.  Not only does he engineer Buffett, he also engineers buffet.

...

:lol @ Rocky

Good one, Rock.    :-D

The Cuban side of my family always uses huevos to refer to testicle-based bravery. I've never heard them say cojones, but they could be doing it when I'm not around as a comment on my lack of balls.

Quick, let's... ASK A MEXICAN.

http://www.ocweekly.com/2009-07-23/columns/ask-a-mexican/

Ah, another thing to blame Hemingway for... and screenwriters.

I used to do a lot of business in Venezuela and spent countless hours in bars in Caracas.   Huevoes = balls in that vernacular .....eggs too !

 :lol

That was classic. Lettuce not forget that one.


(http://resource.mmgn.com/pwnage/user_25134_KFSNWKQ9.gif)

This is a trifling matter

I didn`t mean it literally. I meant really that the method of touring was much more in line with what Brian does solo and the touring band contained all of Brian`s main people. Obviously Mike would have wanted some assurances and would have pushed for certain things because otherwise he wouldn`t have given up the M&B show.

Time wounds all heals

I live in Dallas. Could I have gone if I wanted to? Of course it says private show so I assume not.

SMiLE will never come out. The tapes are distroyed


distroyed???? haven't heard that story before.. :)

Piece of advice - if you don't mean something literally, don't state it as fact, they way you did. Aside from tending to make you look a little foolish by claiming to know something you, in fact, don't, it also rather annoys those folk who do know what was going on (and I'm not referring to myself here, before someone jumps on that remark as self-aggrandising).

Fair enough but I think you could do with chilling out a little. You have jumped on quite a few people recently for no particular reason.

Everybody on the forums is giving their opinions on situations but that doesn`t mean that they always use `imo` in every post. I didn`t state what I wrote was fact and as I`ve already stressed that it wasn`t meant literally and you`ve said that you weren`t annoyed then there`s not really a problem is there.

Yes, I have, and it's not something I'm particularly proud of... but as it happens I have an excellent, non-BB connected, reason. Which is of course no excuse.

All the best Andrew.

BTW. Unless I've missed it. I don't recall reading anything from you with regard to the London gigs. Did you attend any?

Well I hope the situation clears up, take care.
P.S. I also would love to hear what you thought of the show(s) you saw on the tour.

AGD 'jumped' on me once, putting me right where I was wrong. As he had every right so to do. I stated something that was incorrect and he corrected me. Nobody died, there were no natural disasters....maybe I and a few other people learned something.

I believe AGD was at Wembley but I didn't manage to meet him. Probably to his advantage :)

That`s cool and I can understand that. For what it`s worth I apologize for a jokey comment I made in another thread about you `experimenting with the dosage` at the moment as I meant nothing by it. I value your writing on the band and have transported your book with me thousands of miles around the world. Hope all will be good soon.

I was indeed at Wembley - dude with the silver goatee and the stars'n'stripes rugger - and I was just blown away. Never seen Brian so engaged. EVER.  All round, a magnificent gig and a fitting end to The real Beach Boys. It was a welcome oasis of joy in a desert of general sh*t.

I hope things improve for you Andrew.

So do I!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Me too.  My heart sank when I found out BW played less than 15 minutes from where I live and I knew nothing about it.  Hell, I'd have even just listened from the parking lot.

You know you're a Brian Wilson fan when......