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I've heard bits and pieces over the years regarding which BB bandmate may have written a given part, be it lyrics, melody, structure, etc. But I'm sure there are lots of pieces of info like this which I'm unaware of. In a recent thread, Jon Stebbins mentioned Dennis' likely contributions to the vocal arrangement of the song "Friends"... curious if there are any other interesting stories like that for other songs that are documented as co-writes.

I know I've read that Mike had a significant role (beyond lyrics) in the songwriting of "Let The Wind Blow" and possibly "All I Wanna Do", maybe for melody and/or structure... how about other songs like Carl's contributions to "Our Sweet Love", etc?  

And I know I've read that Brian was known to have done uncredited vocal (and possibly structural?) arranging on "Little Bird" and "Forever". I've sometimes wondered if there was some similar uncredited work by Brian on "Never Learn Not to Love", as it has a very full and especially Brian-esque vocal arrangement (moreso than any Dennis-penned BB song). If this is true, I would also not be the slightest bit surprised if neither Brian nor anyone else in the know ever would corroborate such.

Curious if anyone has any cool nuggets of co-writing info (credited as such or not) regarding who wrote what part for other songs in the BB canon?

Great topic!

This one shouldn't be that hard to figure out. Compare the finished product to the demo you can find on Get the Boot.

So you're saying Carl wrote the entire vocal melody and lyric to the song? is the early mix really substantial evidence of such?

I have no knowledge about that, but I doubt it because Brian had moved away from that sound. Personally, I love that records's sound, I wish Dennis had rerecorded "Surf's Up" at that session with a big arrangement like that!

What about Good Timin'? Always wondered about Carl's role in the writing process.

Also, do we know if Landy was actually involved in co-writing some of the lyrics on Love You, as claimed in the "autobiography"?

The liners of the Ten Years' Harmony comp credit this song as "Music - Brian Wilson / Lyrics - Carl Wilson and Brian Wilson".

That's a good question about Landy. Have all of his credits been officially removed on re-releases? Or is he still technically a co– writer on some songs that haven't been re-issued, like "In My Car"? It's weird because, despite his scumbaggerry, it's basically rewriting history to remove his name if he actually did contribute lyrics.

Brian was really an enigma at that point, though. He might record the backing track to "America, I Know You", or he might record "Sail Plane Song".

I remember Tandyn Almer once telling me that he received a 1/12th royalty for his contribution to "Sail On Sailor" because he "wrote every 12th note."  I think it's pretty safe to say he was kidding, AND making a point.  When someone makes a suggestion in the studio, is it co-writing, or is it just a suggestion?  When someone adds a few words here or there, what percentage have they contributed to the song?  I have some pretty strong opinions about these things, and I suspect so does everyone else.  That's when the attorneys get involved.

I really enjoyed reading Paul McCartney's biography - particularly the section about what he wrote and what John wrote in many of the songs.  They had distinctive styles that blended nicely and both wrote music and lyrics, so it was a lot easier to have all that stuff say Lennon/McCartney, even when some were obviously nearly all one composer or the other...example, Yoko Ono has as much to say about what happens to the publishing of "Yesterday" as does McCartney as I understand it, and vice-versa for the songs on which John did nearly all of the writing.  Now we're in legal territory, right?

Are lyrics as important as the music?  From my point of view, if you're Bob Dylan, yes...if you're Brian Wilson, no.   I think about compositions like "Our Prayer" and "Passing By," and they stand on their own.  AND, I am the silly girl who sat on the floor for a couple of days untangling and splicing together a reel of  wadded up recording tape (it had fallen off a reel when it was being switched) because it was of Brian's demo singing "Passing By" with lyrics that, as I understood it from Tandyn Almer, came after the wordless version had already been released and that Brian wanted to re-do it with words.  I sat there for endless hours on that tedious task just to hear it and then gave it back to Tandyn.  I liked the lyrics I heard, but what made it worth my while was hearing Brian sing it more than hearing any lyrics. 

Then there's the problem of whether we are arguing about marketability or artistic viability, and if we can separate the two.  If the lyrics rise to the artistic level of the music - when the writer is a poet like Dylan or Van Dyke Parks - I consider them highly important, personally.  Here's where I'll get myself into a lot of trouble with a lot of you, but from my point of view, if "Good Vibrations" had any set of lyrics, I can't imagine loving it any less.  Then let's consider "Surf's Up" - I would still be as lost in the beauty, whatever the lyrics.  What the poetry of the lyrics gave me was - well, a really, really great poem.  Another wonderful work of art dancing across the notes that I could study for years to come.  Did the lyrics make it more marketable?  I'd think to those who love poetry as much or more than music, probably; but to those who don't speak a word of English who still bought it?  No...and that's apparently a good number of people.

And that's the thing about the Beach Boys, they didn't need Dylan lyrics. For me it is the vocalizing and music. The words were something to sing, but oooh's and ahhh's would have worked just as well. :)

It's all about the music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kYX8IppcbI

Thanks so much for sharing stories like these, Debbie. Do you recall anything about the lyrics-version of "Passing By"? Was it the same Friends version of the song just with lyrics sung over it? Very surprised this hasn't been released yet, but one would think it's being held for some future reissue or a mythical Friends box set.

Does it even still exist?

My CDs are stashed away but I think there are some lines of the "Passing By" lyrics in the Friends/20/20 twofer booklet. "As I saw you walking down the street..."

While walking down the avenue,
I stopped to have a look at you,
And then I saw,
You're just passing by

Here's how I see it:

"Vegetables" is credited to Brian and Van Dyke.

"Mama Says" is credited to Brian and Mike.

The only difference, in terms of melodic and lyrical content, between the "Sleep a lot..." part of "Vegetables" and the entirety of "Mama Says" is the word "Poof" at the end.

Ergo, Mike's contribution to "Mama Says": the word "poof".

 :lol

In all fairness, maybe Mike helped come up with one of the sonic variations of the vocal riff in "Mama Says"? It's a head scratcher though. 

The Friends rewrites still exist and are in the vaults, but Passing By is not currently in the possession of someone connected to the BBs world.

That's pretty much what I remember from the first verse.  I have even shared them in the past on one of Mike Grant's radio show chat pages.  Where did you get them Bubbly Waves?

The bridge was something like this..."long(?) nights, quiet(?) nights, nights of living dreams, so close you were to being all I ever needed..."  The question marked words elude me - I'm basically remember syllables and vague sounds, so they're probably wrong...Brian sounded amazing on the scratch vocal though.  It was good enough to keep for the lead.

I only heard it a few times before the tape reel went back to Tandyn and I never saw it again.  Where it went from there, I couldn't tell you, but it was definitely an intact recording when I was done with it.  Maybe Tandyn's estate has it?

I just thought of another person who might have it.  There was a man down the street from Tandyn, Billy Elder, who had a recording studio in his home with Brian's old 4-track recorder.  Brian used to record there so if Tandyn or the people around the BBs didn't end up with it, maybe Billy did?  You researcher/historian types would be much better at tracking it down than me, I'm afraid...those are the only clues I have.

Maybe Mike's original contribution to "Mama Says" was the "boy" bass vocal, but it was uncredited later? It would be like Mike to add a boy/girl element to it.

Well unless I miscounted, there are 16 words in the song that are not "boy" or "poof", so the Lovester would have written 2 out of 18 words in the song.  No small potatoes.  ;D

Don't forget that the lines "Eat a lot" and "Sleep a lot" are switched! :-D

I've heard that Mike was occasionally left off of song credits too.

Debbie, thanks so much for the lyrics and for the hope you have awakened in me regarding that we one time may hear them. :)

....except that the word "boy" DID exist in "Vegetables."

OK, Vegetables without Mama Says is credited on the Smiley Smile album to Wilson/Parks in 1967.

Mama Says without any Vegetables is credited on the Wild Honey album to Wilson/Love also in 1967.

Decades later an unreleased version with Vegetables and Mama Says was credited to Wilson/Parks. How do we know those aren't Mike's words from 1967 credited in 1967 but mis-credited in 1991/2? What makes us think the mistake was made in 1967?

Given that Mike sued BW over a bunch of songwriting credits in the early '90s, wouldn't he have wanted this cleared up at the time, too?

I don't know, when was the Mike's broken promise suit filed or go to trial? Didn't VDP's credit for Windchimes or Wonderful get left off at that time?

Probably Wind Chimes - there's no way Parks really had anything to do with that is there?

The Boxset with the potentially mis-credited Vegetables was released more than a year before the trial began and the release of the Boxset was delayed from some earlier date. Doesn't some of the boxset materials have a copyright date of 1992?

I don't know/remember but I think it was something that didn't get corrected until the 00s I think.

Mike's suit was filed the same month as the Boxset was finally released. Maybe that missing Vt credit is what sparked the suit?  ;)

If that was the case, you'd expect the song to have been included in the settlement. It wasn't, given that the VT credit has remained Wilson/Parks for BWPS and TSS.

As for Van Dyke being left off Wonderful, that was on the IJWMFTT soundtrack, which came out in '95.

I think I was wrong, the suit was filed July 1994 and the boxset was released July of 1993.

I don't know that is wasn't.  Anybody have the official complete list of song titles? On the other hand back in 1967 when Mike had been left out of the credit for several songs he DID write, wouldn't you expect Mike to not be wrongly credited for something he didn't write.

Wasn't Wonderful and Windchimes "Brian Wilson" only credited on the Smiley album in 1967 and then Parks was added to the credit for the 1992/3 boxset?  Does VDP even take credit for co-authoring WC? VDP was given credit for She's Goin Bald but he told Jon Hunt he didn't have any involvement in it or something like that. Anyone have that quote?  Anyway contemporaneously they both got credit for different parts of an unreleased version of a song.

It's been a popular fan speculation for decades but probably isn't as cut and dried as it has been supposed to be.

I didn't know Parks wasn't credited on Wonderful - but I just looked around and found an image of a vinyl without his name attributed.

Just my personal belief, but my vote for Parks is yes for Wonderful and He Gives Speeches and no for Wind Chimes. I think the interview you are recalling is Parks denying involvement in Speeches. But I can't see how those lyrics aren't Parks. My hunch is that he was credited for Bald for that reason. For what it's worth, in my opinion, I don't believe Mike had anything to do with Sleep A Lot/Do A Lot/Mama Says.

To me Wonderful sounds definitely Parks. Speeches could be Parks but if he denies it maybe somebody like maybe Robbins.

Windchimes does not sound especially Parks to me, could be or could be somebody else like Brian or maybe even somebody like Geller or Sachen. \

The VT demo sounds very Parks to me but it has no Mama. Mama sounds like Mike to me or maybe somebody else like Geller or Sachen, but not Parks. Parks is out when Mama is recorded as a section of Vt and it hadn't been on the demo but Mike was around when it was recorded as Vt and he is credited with the Mama words just a few months later at a time when he had not gotten any un-due credit or even due credit sometimes. I think it is very likely that Mike supplied those words to a new section of Vt in Parks absence in April and when they weren't used in Smiley's Vt he wasn't credited for something that wasn't in that version of the song. Then  a few months later when the Mama section became its own song he got his credit.

All speculation but to me a decades after the fact credit doesn't trump the contemporaneous fact Mike was credited as the writer of Mama Says.

Why doesn't someone ask VDP if he remembers the Mama Says section and if he remembers being its author? And Windchimes too.

Mike certainly did not supply "those words to a new section of Vt in Parks absence in April" since they were first recorded as part of Heroes and Villains at the beginning of January, along with many other vocal parts. While I don't know if Parks wrote them, it seems totally out of step for Mike to have written them. Personally, they don't sound particularly Love-ish to me and it seems strange (bordering on improbable) that of all the things Brian would ask Mike for help with writing between Good Vibes and Smiley Smile, it would be this. But, hey, doesn't mean that he didn't, I guess.


To be honest, I don't trust his memory for things like this. I'm still upset that he couldn't remember the lyrics for Child is Father of the Man, which he must have written back then.

Again, Mike is not credited as a co-writer of VT in any of the versions that have included the Mama Says section -- given his desire to set the record straight on questions of authorship, it seems impossible he would have let that inaccurate credit stand – not only on BWPS, but the subsequent BB releases as well. The BMI database -- which is really the final word in these matters because they determine who gets paid – lists only Wilson and Parks.

http://repertoire.bmi.com/title.asp?blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=True&keyID=1582166&ShowNbr=0&ShowSeqNbr=0&querytype=WorkID

One of the best (only) Wilson-Love songwriting lawsuit accounts --

http://www.surfermoon.com/essays/lovevwilson1.html

As for the changed credits, a full list seems elusive. Although if I have the inclination, I'll just go compare the current database credits agains the 1990s twofers.

I heard Broken Promise Suit is the name of Mike's next album.


Oh wait, who am I kidding. He's never gonna actually release any of his own music again. Too afraid that it'll sell 14 copies.

Concerning Mama Says, since every original composition on Wild Honey except How She Boogalooed It is (and always was) credited to Wilson/Love, surely a decision was made that all the original songwriting on the album would be so credited. After the commercial failure of Smiley Smile, this might have been intended to illustrate the point that the band had gone back to basics. So Love need not have done anything to actually deserve that credit on Mama Says (perhaps Brian should sue!).

Concerning Let The Wind Blow, my guess is that Mike wrote the first few lines and Brian ran with it. Musically speaking, the bulk of the song is simply too good to be Mike's.

Maybe not just Carl, but maybe Carl and Al, since the latter is ALSO credited.

In Byron Preiss' authorized biography of the band, it's stated that Mike wrote the song and brought it to Brian, who then made modifications to the melody and changed the beat (to waltz time): "On the soft side, there was 'Let The Wind Blow', one of Mike's most beautiful compositions. Written while in his car, Mike took it to Brian, who changed the melody line, gave it a different beat, and went into the studio to record."

That account is pretty good for a non-lawyer. He gave a good description of the exhibits, a couple of which became souvenirs of the account writer, post-trial.  I had not read it a while. 

Re. Mama Says and Vt

For what it is worth, from a long time ago according to Brad Elliott  "Mama Says" songwriting credit was Brian 60% and Mike 40% which he claimed translated to Music 100% Brian and Mike 0% and Lyrics 20% Brian and 80% Mike. That seems to show that the "mama says/do a lot/poof" lyrics were a collaboration but written predominately by Mike. Either that or Brian [and Murry] suddenly turned extremely generous for one song.

For “Cabinessence” and “H&V” Brad claimed the credits read 50% each to Brian and Van which translates to Music Brian 100% and Lyrics VDP 100%. However “Vegetables” is credited to Brian 60% and Van 40%, which supports that Brian contributed to Van's lyrics on the released version. Mike doesn't seem to have been involved at all in the released version or was un-credited.

Can anyone confirm or deny those claims?