vaguely technical session tapes question

[wgolly]

Is the part where they come up with the staccato part on the GV box set traking session?  At what point does it come on, cause I think I missed it.

sorry to bump this old thread, really interesting though.

[c-man]

Didn't the beatles use to scrub a lot of takes by rewinding the tape and reusing it?  The BB's didn't do that did they? It would explain the cuts. 

The Boys would do that, too.  That's why on "Salt Lake City", for instance, the tape starts with the final takes, then you hear the last part of the rehearsals, then the early takes.  When they got to the end of the tape, if the master take wasn't achieved yet, they would rewind and record over until they got the final take.

[c-man]

It's bootleggers that present sessions that way for the most part.  Of course, on official releases, they edit the sessions down for time, but in most cases the complete session tape of any given session (assming a session tape exists) does exist in the vault.

So you're saying that as far as you know the tapes stored in the archives are not cut up?  That would be great news.  I think Alan said that, too. 

However, I still have my worries.  Because, while most of the SOT discs feature full, uncut up sessions, aren't there a few "SMiLE" sessions that are "cut up"?  I would have thought the bootleggers would not have skimped on presenting all the "SMiLE" material they could have.  Anyway, maybe once the Beach Boy Legal Bootleg store opens then we'll find out for sure.

In the same vein, do you or Alan know the specifics of the "Session with the Big Daddy" Earl Leaf segment from Today and SOT?  There does not seem to be a bit of overlap in the SOT and finished track.  Was the finished track a completely different take or was the finished track snipped out of the SOT session, thereby, no overlap?

Love and merci,   Dan Lega

If you listen closely to the "alternate" "Bull Session" from the SOT collection, you'll notice parts that fit with parts on the original...and you can clearly hear edits on the original.  Go to my essays on www.beachboysarchives.com (especially the "Today!" outtakes essay, where I describe the "alternate" version).  I expain where the various cuts were made.  It sounds like they cut certain parts out and transferred them to an alternate reel for the album version. 

[Bicyclerider]

I doubt SOT left out or edited out many takes or false starts from the SMile tapes - they had previously released 4 CD box sets of sessions, if they could have squeezed out a fourth sessions disc for Smile they would have.  As it is, they did edit some very minor take announcements and short (a few seconds) false starts, as can be heard on a subsequently released boot - but no complete takes or long false starts.

so if you leave the bootlegger out, you've got the bootlegger source, whoever he/she may be, who copied the tapes in the first place.  Tape running out while copying could necessitate an edit, but you wouldn't think this many.  Maybe to fit the stuff on whatever tape the copier was using, they were editing/cutting off false starts on the fly?

I don't think Brian/Chuck would have edited the tapes in the way we hear them - as mentioned, they would have just taped over the beginning of the tape rather than rewind back over part of the last take.  BUT when Stephen and Carl copied all of the Smile tapes, they may have edited them down to what they felt were useful takes for a reconstruction of Smile and cut most of the rest.  And Carl mentioned how the tape of Old Master Painter got thrown out by mistake and had to be spliced back together, which would explain the cuts on that session tape.