Syd Barrett / Brian Wilson

[Sheriff John Stone]

What's everybody's favorite Syd song? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmW17QvUhRM Makes me happy when I hear it.

I'll go with "Arnold Layne". I also like "See Emily Play". I wish those two songs would've been included on The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn.

I guess I like just about everything Syd did. Two solo songs I like are "Late Night" and "Wined And Dined".

[EthanJames]

Brian and Syd are also similar to Brian Jones as well if you think about it, all three took acid and had terrible demons. BW didn't bother recording for a while (maybe about the 20/20 sessions?), Brian Jones didn't even bother coming to recording sessions as well as Syd only playing on a few songs and theres a few more things similar to the three but i can't remember what it was.

[Peter Reum]

I am a big fan of Pink Floyd's first album. It is so unique and imaginative. I don't know Syd Barrett's solo work, so i will have to look into it. I think Syd was living next to his sister when he died. I think he found the balance he needed to function by going back to Cambridge. His condition is unfamiliar to me, but he certainly sounds like he might have had some paralyzing social anxiety that would have made performing live almost unthinkable. I am gratified to hear that he enjoyed painting and reading in his later years. If I recall, he had some diabetes later in life. That would be hard to manage.

[Dead Parrot]

It's not that nobody could or would no longer work with Syd post 1974; he was too far gone. I think much like Brian Wilson - if Syd has anything left and wanted to record, people would've lined up to work with him. I think that quote from Syd upon opening his door, "What do they want from me?" tells you a lot. He must've of really lost touch with reality and who he was. What did he think the fans knocking at the door of a reclusive ex-rock and roll (genius?) wanted?

TBH, i'm not 100% sure what they wanted from him. To quote Syd's nephew Ian Barrett "What did they think was going to happen? That he'd invite them in and say 'Hey, do you want to drop some acid?'"

[Sheriff John Stone]

It's not that nobody could or would no longer work with Syd post 1974; he was too far gone. I think much like Brian Wilson - if Syd has anything left and wanted to record, people would've lined up to work with him. I think that quote from Syd upon opening his door, "What do they want from me?" tells you a lot. He must've of really lost touch with reality and who he was. What did he think the fans knocking at the door of a reclusive ex-rock and roll (genius?) wanted?

TBH, i'm not 100% sure what they wanted from him. To quote Syd's nephew Ian Barrett "What did they think was going to happen? That he'd invite them in and say 'Hey, do you want to drop some acid?'"

Although there are numerous chapters/stories about Syd's routine walks and bike rides to his favorite downtown stores, there is obviously some degree of stalking involved in fans arriving at Syd's doorstep. However, to answer what the fans might want? Maybe an autograph, a photograph, to say "thank you", a brief conversation, just to be able to say they met Syd Barrett. I don't want to appear too naive, I mean, I don't think they would've asked Syd to debut any new songs!

[MBE]

Peter you will love Syd's albums. Madcap and Barrett are just full of lovely songs, some actually quite fun.

Syd made a choice not to be a public figure. He went by his real name of Roger and his family had told fans for many years that he wished to be left alone. "Syd" so to speak died in 1975 after he last visited with Pink Floyd. He was so very and sadly gone by then.

Thing I always wanted to know is what really stopped his recording career. He was relatively active the first three years after the Floyd. Though some of the compositions for the solo albums were old, he did write some new ones that were brilliant. He needed a good degree of help, but the melodies and his vocals are consistently interesting. He even was able to perform very good bbc sessions in 1970 and 1971 and play a live gig.

I think the turning point may be Stars, the band Syd formed in early 1972.  It seems that at least the drummer Twink thinks Syd was playing well most of the time. Sadly it is well known that the press came to what all agree was their worst show. They played one more concert that was considered far better, but once Syd read a bad review he quit and smashed his head in to his ceiling soon after,  He never seems to have been the same again, only playing once impromptu at a Jack Bruce gig in 1973, and a having rather elementary sounding (if not as horrible as legend makes it) few days in the studio in 1974. Between then and 1975 he gained 100 pounds and shaved all his body hair. That's when Syd died and Roger thereafter attempted to live a quiet life and regain some of his sanity.

[bluesno1fann]

Brian and Syd are also similar to Brian Jones as well if you think about it, all three took acid and had terrible demons. BW didn't bother recording for a while (maybe about the 20/20 sessions?), Brian Jones didn't even bother coming to recording sessions as well as Syd only playing on a few songs and theres a few more things similar to the three but i can't remember what it was.

Agreed. They all have that in common, one time or another. Not to mention some of the Fleetwood Mac members.

Anyway, I'd say Syd's story is by far the most tragic in all of Rock. And I don't care what anyone else says, Syd IS Pink Floyd and he is by far my favourite member. And Piper is Floyd's best album, not Dark Side or The Wall (as great as they are).
His solo albums rule too! A must-listen to anyone who's into early Pink Floyd!

[Bean Bag]

Syd Barrett did what he was meant to do, then got out. Others work a whole career to get results like Syd got on just three albums, and no one talks about potential. He found it, and quit before he killed himself chasing diminishing returns. I admire that.

syd is really only aknowledged for 1 album and a few singles that's about it..unless u count his solo's which are :/

His two solo albums are among the two greatest albums ever recorded.

Syd's solo albums are really amazing, I agree.  I was especially taken with Barrett.  The way it was produced, it just has this wonderfully warm, peaceful, removed yet brightly aware, perspective.  It's a beautiful, sublime record.  Madcap was always a little more "troubling" and psychological.

To answer the OP question, I think Barrett is exactly what Floyd would have sounded like had Syd stayed on.  At the time, Floyd was still spaced out, earthy, overly trippy and all the rest.  But on Barrett, we get a much more musical, melodic, lyrical, poetic, fluid, dreamy and frankly flat-out beautiful, sound.



Imagine if instead of "BARRETT" at the top, it said "Pink Floyd." 

[rn57]

Syd Barrett did what he was meant to do, then got out. Others work a whole career to get results like Syd got on just three albums, and no one talks about potential. He found it, and quit before he killed himself chasing diminishing returns. I admire that.

syd is really only aknowledged for 1 album and a few singles that's about it..unless u count his solo's which are :/

His two solo albums are among the two greatest albums ever recorded.

Syd's solo albums are really amazing, I agree.  I was especially taken with Barrett.  The way it was produced, it just has this wonderfully warm, peaceful, removed yet brightly aware, perspective.  It's a beautiful, sublime record.  Madcap was always a little more "troubling" and psychological.

To answer the OP question, I think Barrett is exactly what Floyd would have sounded like had Syd stayed on.  At the time, Floyd was still spaced out, earthy, overly trippy and all the rest.  But on Barrett, we get a much more musical, melodic, lyrical, poetic, fluid, dreamy and frankly flat-out beautiful, sound.



Imagine if instead of "BARRETT" at the top, it said "Pink Floyd." 

That applies to a lot of the Barrett album, but then again "I Never Lied To You" and "Rats" are pretty troubled-sounding songs. "Wined And Dined," as beautiful as any of his songs, and "Effervescing Elephant" were written before he came to London and started the Floyd, according to a couple of the books about him. It may be that it has a more Floyd-like sound because Rick Wright was playing on it, as hadn't been the case with Madcap. 

The surest indication of where Syd might have gone from his second album would be those live tapes made when he was in the band Stars in 1972, which have vanished and still never resurfaced. But the thing is, in that group he was playing no new material according to Twink and Jack Monk who were in the band with him.

[pixletwin]

To anyone and everyone who loves early Floyd and Syd Barrett I highly suggest taking a listen to soniclovenoize's "what if" album reconstructions. They are imaginative and of high quality. 100% recommended.

Pink Floyd - The Shape of the Questions to Heaven http://albumsthatneverwere.blogspot.com/2013/02/pink-floyd-shape-of-questions-to-heaven.html

Pink Floyd - Vantage Point http://albumsthatneverwere.blogspot.com/2013/02/pink-floyd-vantage-point-1969.html

PInk Floyd - Themes From an Imaginary Western http://albumsthatneverwere.blogspot.com/2013/03/pink-floyd-themes-from-imaginary_15.html

[Bean Bag]

Awesome!  Thanks Pixletwin.   

[pixletwin]

I am interested to know your thoughts on it after you hear them. 

[Bean Bag]

Will do, I can't wait to listen.  Just from reading the excellent descriptions, I can tell I'm gonna dig this.  I've never really thought about it... but, if it had been in the contract that Syd be "a major contributor" (similar to how Brian was with the post-Capitol albums) -- it's easy to imagine something like this having happened.

Scream Thy Last Scream.  Vegetable Man.  Apple and Oranges.  Those really should have been on the follow up to Piper.  It's also reasonable to believe that Syd would have gravitated towards the Madcap/Barrett style for the remaining "new albums."  Most artists create based on where their head's at, at a given time -- so I don't think he would have done something terribly different.  They may have sounded different if they were Floyd Songs... ie; more confident.  But still.  Clowns & Jugglers could have easily been another Floyd single.  

Since Syd wasn't "playing well with others" at this time -- the more serene solo-setting could have certainly been a solution.  Being so sporadic and difficult, they would have let him do his thing, get a few good numbers on tape -- and move on.  It would have been a matter of cherry picking whatever seemed the most logical for the album.

Given Roger's "drive" and the fact that they had hired a very competent Dave -- they were obviously ready to move on, if need be.  So, I think they would have quickly abandoned the idea of trying to copy Syd.  It's more likely that they would have begun to pursue their own career/artistic goals as much as possible.  Again, not unlike what Denny and the Boys had to do in the early 70s.

Realizing that they weren't likely to remain Syd's band for much longer than the contract, it seems believable to me that these two departing worlds could have coexisted, as depicted, for this brief period.

[Bean Bag]

Got to spend some time with the aforementioned Syd/Floyd reconstructions.  I really dig them.  Very nicely done, excellent sound and well executed on all fronts.  I was surprised by how well a lot of the material fit together, especially the Atom Heart stuff.  That's of course where the Floyd genes really started to pull together -- the "embryo" develop, so to speak.

But I shouldn't be surprised either.  From Dark Side on, they really started to reference Syd with reverence and mystique.  Embracing their past -- and literally "mining" Syd.  For example, the chords to Brain Damage mirror Bike, and pull heavily from the same tortured mindset.  But the material on these sets does predate much of that... so I guess that's why I was surprised.

The first album, that re-imagines Saucerful is the most obvious "could have been."  There were in fact two Floyds at this time -- the Syd Floyd and the Non-Syd Floyd, and something in between.  And they were very different.  Syd's final Floyd stuff was intense.  Vegetable Man, Scream Thy Last Scream, and Apples and Oranges are frighteningly vivid depictions of an astonishingly brilliant artist's unraveling -- put to tune.  There's just no way around it.  There's a horrid tightness to it all -- an anxiety that is unsettling.  But they're some of the most shockingly, brilliant things I've ever heard.  They do frighten and delight.

By comparison, the Floyd stuff without Syd is oh, so flat.  Darker -- hazy and sleepy, soft and tame.  We have to assume this is why they just cut ties at this point and didn't bother including Syd's material -- save Jugband.  It's unfortunate, but there was little chance they were going to match the intensity of Syd's finality.  We know there were other tunes from around this time, but likely weren't finished.  So Pink Floyd just hit reboot.

This collection puts Syd back -- front and center and gives the other Floyd's their "plug" -- rather than the other way around (which is the way they chose to do it on the released Saucerful of Sucrets).  One could argue that something like Point Me At The Sky, or perhaps even, Corporal Clegg are attempts at Syd's style and intensity -- but Paint Box and Remember A Day (used here) are just better examples of their nature.  And more satisfying as a result.

To buttress the shifts in intensity, using Late Night and Golden Hair to cool things down, does work well.  The music Syd started on after he left the band, is like a breath of fresh air.  You know, not too wash over the troubled times he had, but I maintain he was quite well and lucid by this point.  He was most broken by being booted, and more shamed into retirement than anything.  Isolation and embarrassment further beat him up.  But I think he was fine.  He morphed into a sensitive, quiet and brilliant artist... with a disgust for the rock business.

But I digress... Good stuff.

[Amazing Larry]

Syd Barrett did what he was meant to do, then got out. Others work a whole career to get results like Syd got on just three albums, and no one talks about potential. He found it, and quit before he killed himself chasing diminishing returns. I admire that.

syd is really only aknowledged for 1 album and a few singles that's about it..unless u count his solo's which are :/

His two solo albums are among the two greatest albums ever recorded.

Syd's solo albums are really amazing, I agree.  I was especially taken with Barrett.  The way it was produced, it just has this wonderfully warm, peaceful, removed yet brightly aware, perspective.  It's a beautiful, sublime record.  Madcap was always a little more "troubling" and psychological.

To answer the OP question, I think Barrett is exactly what Floyd would have sounded like had Syd stayed on.  At the time, Floyd was still spaced out, earthy, overly trippy and all the rest.  But on Barrett, we get a much more musical, melodic, lyrical, poetic, fluid, dreamy and frankly flat-out beautiful, sound.



Imagine if instead of "BARRETT" at the top, it said "Pink Floyd." 

I'm gonna have to agree with your assessment on Barrett, although I would like Madcap more if it wasn't for the questionable song choice in the second half. As it stands, Baby Lemonade, Dominoes, It Is Obvious, and Wolfpack have some of the most striking and beautiful lyrics he ever wrote.

[Moon Dawg]

   I've imagined "Baby Lemonade" as a side 1 MEDDLE track, but maybe it "belongs" on ATOM HEART MOTHER.

[pixletwin]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Bean Bag. It was great to read. I agree that it is really strange and wonderful how the Syd material slips seamlessly into the Atom Heart Mother tracks.