Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread!

[Roger Ryan]

Brian has continued working in modular form since 1966, although pretty much everybody has done it to some extent over the last 20 to 30 years - meaning working on different portions of a song at different times then editing the results together. Pro-Tools has made this even easier.

But more specifically to Brian's writing style, you see a lot more songs that appear as a collection of distinct little "sections" post-SMiLE than you do before he went hog-wild with "Good Vibrations". Examples:

She's Goin' Bald
Little Pad
Gettin' Hungry
Wake The World
Country Air
A Thing Or Two
Diamond Head
This Whole World
At My Window
A Day In The Life Of A Tree
You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone
Funky Pretty
The TM Song
Airplane
Love & Mercy
Rio Grande
Rainbow Eyes
Happy Days
You Touched Me
A Friend Like You
Morning Beat
Oxygen To The Brain

[punkinhead]

Didn't Murry and I think Rick Henn want or do a recording for the Honeys/American Spring?
I was thinking it was Come to Me?
Can someone help me out?

[punkinhead]

Since Dennis recorded My Diane back in the 15 Big Ones/New Album (to my recollection), does that technically mean he didn't record at/for the MIU album? I feel like I read on a liner note for the album or something that Dennis and Carl only came in for a "cameo" vocal appearance....Or, with the early version that's on a lot of b00ts from the mid-late 70s just an early cut then he came and re-recorded it at MIU? Or was that early version on MIU that was "sweetened up"/(re)mixed or something? With the way their voices were and the production sound of that album, there could have been a really good album recorded or at least put together some songs that were already done and maybe needed (re)mixed.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Since Dennis recorded My Diane back in the 15 Big Ones/New Album (to my recollection), does that technically mean he didn't record at/for the MIU album? I feel like I read on a liner note for the album or something that Dennis and Carl only came in for a "cameo" vocal appearance....Or, with the early version that's on a lot of b00ts from the mid-late 70s just an early cut then he came and re-recorded it at MIU? Or was that early version on MIU that was "sweetened up"/(re)mixed or something? With the way their voices were and the production sound of that album, there could have been a really good album recorded or at least put together some songs that were already done and maybe needed (re)mixed.

Gigs & sessions 1977

Note after November 1st. 

[punkinhead]

On the Robert W Morgan Special from 78, Mike Love describes Student Demonstration Time as a John Lennon-esq song with the sirens, bullhorns, and such...what do you guys think of this description of the song? Accurate or trying to make an illiget song legit?

[Roger Ryan]

On the Robert W Morgan Special from 78, Mike Love describes Student Demonstration Time as a John Lennon-esq song with the sirens, bullhorns, and such...what do you guys think of this description of the song? Accurate or trying to make an illiget song legit?

Lennon wouldn't start getting that topical until 1972's SOMETIME IN NEW YORK CITY, so Mike actually got the jump on him! Apart from attempting a political stance (and failing by demeaning the victims of the Kent State incident), there's nothing about the track that is remotely like Lennon.

[hypehat]

Yeah, it's only comparable to Lennon in the sense that the two are blatantly political. That's not saying much though, is it?

[punkinhead]

On the Robert W Morgan Special from 78, Mike Love describes Student Demonstration Time as a John Lennon-esq song with the sirens, bullhorns, and such...what do you guys think of this description of the song? Accurate or trying to make an illiget song legit?

Lennon wouldn't start getting that topical until 1972's SOMETIME IN NEW YORK CITY, so Mike actually got the jump on him! Apart from attempting a political stance (and failing by demeaning the victims of the Kent State incident), there's nothing about the track that is remotely like Lennon.

[/b][/u]
EXACTLY!
John could make political songs/ideas/lyrics without having to use a cover song as a basis...but, you know Mike, he love's other artist's work.

[Myk Luhv]

I think I could like SDT if it had less awful lyrics. It's a  good little rocker, I guess -- one of the only two the BBs did!

[Curtis Leon]

SDT is overmetalized, the lyrics are awful, and Mike just couldn't sing properly on this one. Worst song on Surf's Up IMO.

[Paulos]

I cannot stand Student Demonstration Time, always skip it when i'm listening to Surf's Up along with Take A Load Off your Feet, awful, awful songs.

[punkinhead]

SDT is overmetalized, the lyrics are awful, and Mike just couldn't sing properly on this one. Worst song on Surf's Up IMO.

The other rocker I'm guessing is All I want to Do?   I totally agree, especially the Live in London outtake

I consider Brian's newer version of Mrs. O'leary's Cow a rocker....not so much the original version, it's more baroque/psychedelic pop

[Runaways]

every time i hear "a bachelor of bullets", I cringe.  You know Mike thought that was clever. 

[drbeachboy]

Most, if not all of those kids were in college to earn a Bachelor's Degree, and so it is a metaphor that fits what happened. All I can tell you is, is that in 1971 this song was thought of as the most hip tune on that album. All my Beach Boys hating friends loved it more than anything else on that album. In hindsight, I understand where you are coming from, but in 1971 it wasn't looked at that way.

[Roger Ryan]

Oh, I know where Mike was going with "Bachelor of bullets", but it was just the wrong tone for the song. As I mentioned above, that line in particular manages to demean the victims of the incident. Overall, it's kind of a mushy viewpoint; you really can't tell if Love thought the National Guard shooting students was a good thing or a bad thing.

[Runaways]

Most, if not all of those kids were in college to earn a Bachelor's Degree, and so it is a metaphor that fits what happened.

ha, really??? is THAT what that means??

[drbeachboy]

Most, if not all of those kids were in college to earn a Bachelor's Degree, and so it is a metaphor that fits what happened.

ha, really??? is THAT what that means??

Yeah Smartass, that's exactly what it means!

[punkinhead]

Brian has continued working in modular form since 1966, although pretty much everybody has done it to some extent over the last 20 to 30 years - meaning working on different portions of a song at different times then editing the results together. Pro-Tools has made this even easier.

But more specifically to Brian's writing style, you see a lot more songs that appear as a collection of distinct little "sections" post-SMiLE than you do before he went hog-wild with "Good Vibrations". Examples:

She's Goin' Bald/He Gives SpeechesLittle Pad
Gettin' Hungry
Wake The World
Country Air
A Thing Or Two
Diamond Head
This Whole World
At My Window
A Day In The Life Of A Tree
You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone
Funky Pretty
The TM Song
Airplane
Love & Mercy
Rio Grande
Rainbow Eyes
Happy Days
You Touched Me
A Friend Like You
Morning Beat
Oxygen To The Brain

I know this may be a pain but could you possibly (or anyone is welcome to for that matter) break down these songs into the sections that you speculate would have been broken into pieces to record, for example:

She's Goin' Bald:
First section: "silk and hair" verse
second: "sha-na-na-na" "what a blow" (sped up part).....partially influence by Get a Job
Third section: Brian on piano/spoken part
4th section: Mike singing "You're too late Mama"
5th section?: "Up-side your head" piano/guitar part


That's about the only one I could break up into parts...so if someone could do this with the rest of those songs or other songs (besides Smile tracks), I would be grateful!

[Roger Ryan]

punkinhead - Please note that the list of songs I posted are songs that I believe Brian composed in sections, not necessarily recorded in sections (although that is true for a lot of them as well). Before "Good Vibrations", I feel that Brian's composing style was more conventional; he created songs based on one major "feel" as he'd call them. There were a few notable exceptions like the intro to "California Girls", which has little relation to the main body of the song, or the "You Still Believe In Me" intro. But after GV and SMiLE, Brian continued to return to creating songs made up of separate, distinct "feels" like the way he was working in almost exclusively in late '66.

Note the complete shifts in tempo in tracks like "Gettin' Hungry" or "Wake The World". Even if the backing tracks were recorded in one pass, the change in "feels" is jarring. To answer your question as directly as possible, certainly something like "Diamond Head" was recorded in sections - those are easy to identify. Note that there is a distinct edit to the "She don't know..." section in "Mess Of Help". "Airplane" has a tag that is completely unrelated to the rest of the song which could very well have been recorded separately. A number of the examples do this where a seemingly unrelated tag is grafted onto a song (this is part of Brian's genius in my opinion).

The intro and tag to "A Friend Like You" was definitely recorded separately from the rest of the track (in fact, I think it is the exact same backing track section and vocal repeated twice). "Happy Days" has distinct sections that sound like they were recorded separately as well. Again, these days it's very common for sections of songs to be recorded separately and edited together, but I think Brian continued his "SMiLE"-style modular composing throughout his career.

[punkinhead]

would adding Saturday Morning in the City and Slightly American Music be legit?
You think they were written and/or recorded in sections?

[punkinhead]

punkinhead - Please note that the list of songs I posted are songs that I believe Brian composed in sections, not necessarily recorded in sections (although that is true for a lot of them as well). Before "Good Vibrations", I feel that Brian's composing style was more conventional; he created songs based on one major "feel" as he'd call them. There were a few notable exceptions like the intro to "California Girls", which has little relation to the main body of the song, or the "You Still Believe In Me" intro. But after GV and SMiLE, Brian continued to return to creating songs made up of separate, distinct "feels" like the way he was working in almost exclusively in late '66.

Note the complete shifts in tempo in tracks like "Gettin' Hungry" or "Wake The World". Even if the backing tracks were recorded in one pass, the change in "feels" is jarring. To answer your question as directly as possible, certainly something like "Diamond Head" was recorded in sections - those are easy to identify. Note that there is a distinct edit to the "She don't know..." section in "Mess Of Help". "Airplane" has a tag that is completely unrelated to the rest of the song which could very well have been recorded separately. A number of the examples do this where a seemingly unrelated tag is grafted onto a song (this is part of Brian's genius in my opinion).

The intro and tag to "A Friend Like You" was definitely recorded separately from the rest of the track (in fact, I think it is the exact same backing track section and vocal repeated twice). "Happy Days" has distinct sections that sound like they were recorded separately as well. Again, these days it's very common for sections of songs to be recorded separately and edited together, but I think Brian continued his "SMiLE"-style modular composing throughout his career.

Is the tag you're talking about on Airplane the: "I can't wait, can't wait to see her face, can't wait, can't wait to see her face"?   I always enjoyed that....But I guess that it's obvious it sounds like a different section with Brian or Carl counting off right before they sing that section/tag.

[filledeplage]

punkinhead - Please note that the list of songs I posted are songs that I believe Brian composed in sections, not necessarily recorded in sections (although that is true for a lot of them as well). Before "Good Vibrations", I feel that Brian's composing style was more conventional; he created songs based on one major "feel" as he'd call them. There were a few notable exceptions like the intro to "California Girls", which has little relation to the main body of the song, or the "You Still Believe In Me" intro. But after GV and SMiLE, Brian continued to return to creating songs made up of separate, distinct "feels" like the way he was working in almost exclusively in late '66.

Note the complete shifts in tempo in tracks like "Gettin' Hungry" or "Wake The World". Even if the backing tracks were recorded in one pass, the change in "feels" is jarring. To answer your question as directly as possible, certainly something like "Diamond Head" was recorded in sections - those are easy to identify. Note that there is a distinct edit to the "She don't know..." section in "Mess Of Help". "Airplane" has a tag that is completely unrelated to the rest of the song which could very well have been recorded separately. A number of the examples do this where a seemingly unrelated tag is grafted onto a song (this is part of Brian's genius in my opinion).

The intro and tag to "A Friend Like You" was definitely recorded separately from the rest of the track (in fact, I think it is the exact same backing track section and vocal repeated twice). "Happy Days" has distinct sections that sound like they were recorded separately as well. Again, these days it's very common for sections of songs to be recorded separately and edited together, but I think Brian continued his "SMiLE"-style modular composing throughout his career.

It is probably not so unique that it appears that a "strand" (not a music term, to be sure) is "grafted" on a section of music, whether it is at the beginning or the end.  Barry Manilow used Chopin's Prelude in C Minor, Opus 28, Number 20 for his "Could It Be Magic?" both at the opening and closing...maybe for pedagogical purposes or to show a sense of a closing circle of the borrowed strand from Chopin  - and perhaps those songs, such as California Girls and and the still brilliant, IMHO, You Still Believe in Me (also used for a "strand" in Brian's Back, from Endless Harmony,) there are clips or strands which seem disjointed in a way, but somehow work in the grander scheme of things. 

The notion of "modular" might be no more than composition which is crafted in sections.  Is it any different from any other creative activity, whether it be film-making or sculptor, that the artist, works in sections rather than sequentially.  There is likely a completed vision in the mind of the artist/composer, which an observer cannot perceive, but needs to focus on chunks at a time, intensely to make the whole picture come together.     

Sometimes what might be construed as jarring is merely the positioning of the old with the new and isn't that part of the artistic/creative process?      

[Roger Ryan]

Of course, combining different sections of work together is paramount in any artistic endeavor. I don't have the proper music vocabulary to describe exactly what's going on with Brian's music. I do think it's generally accepted that the SMiLE material is largely composed and executed in modular form with various sections within individual songs demonstrating sharp contrasts in tempo and tone, an approach that is rarely found on Beach Boys records prior to "Good Vibrations". I'm only suggesting that Brian did not abandon this approach after SMiLE and that it has cropped up at various points in his subsequent work.

[punkinhead]

I was recently listening to the "Piano Intermezzo Piece" on the PS SOT (Disc 4, I think) and I got to thinking about how part of it sounded familiar, I wanna say it's at the beginning of the tracking session of That's Not Me on the Pet Sounds Sessions boxed set...
So is there a chance they spliced these two together for some reason for the boxed set?
Anyone know what I'm talking about?

[punkinhead]

I was recently listening to the "Piano Intermezzo Piece" on the PS SOT (Disc 4, I think) and I got to thinking about how part of it sounded familiar, I wanna say it's at the beginning of the tracking session of That's Not Me on the Pet Sounds Sessions boxed set...
So is there a chance they spliced these two together for some reason for the boxed set?
Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Also, I remember reading a review for the PS SOT on www.BeachBoys.com on their Rarities page (great reviews by the way) about that same track (Piano Intermezzo Piece) and the reviewer came to the conclusion that it sounded a bit like Lonely Sea, and after listening to it, I kinda agree.