The part of this which is hard to figure out in terms of Mike writing with Brian is that when reading through the Joe Thomas interview, Brian and Mike DID write together, and as others have said, in a way that's more in line with their previous successful collaborations like California Girls and Good Vibrations than Mike's ideal "room with a piano" scenario, or starting something from scratch. I don't know if Mike is/was looking for something to gripe about, or just bitching for the sake of it, but the Thomas interview clearly states that Mike and Brian co-wrote those songs mentioned, in the way they had done before. It goes against some of Mike's claims in subsequent years that he wasn't allowed to write with Brian, or whatever his claims were.

100%. To try to be fair to Mike, I think there is probably a subtext to his complaints, which is that the TWGMTR project was mostly formed without him. He probably feels like this has happened many times in the Beach Boys' career -- "OK Mike, here's what we're going to be doing, here are the songs in development, and here are the parts you're going to sing" -- and especially for a guy that is used to calling all the shots for the touring band, it's likely kind of a triggering dynamic for him.

But on the 'writing with Brian in a room' bit specifically, yes, it's hard to know how it could have been any closer to what Mike claims to want. It sounds like goalposts got moved, and most likely will keep getting moved no matter what.

Agreed, all good thoughts, HeyJude.

I posted this in another thread, but here's the Joe Thomas interview where he talks about how he and Brian developed ideas for the TWGMTR album:

https://notes.andrewromano.net/joethomasbeachboys

The process with Joe Thomas and Brian here sounds very much like what you describe... Joe kind of rolling with an open-ended, abstract, at times even slightly absurd process, helping to tease out Brian's ideas that might take weeks or months or years to fully develop. Kind of catching these little drops of magic where he can, and going wherever Brian's creative process goes, whatever that ends up looking like.

Mike is -- to put it mildly! -- not known for this kind of empathy and flexibility. And a process that sounds to Brian like "you and Mike are going to work together on Day X when he's not touring, and you'll go into a room at X time and come out with X number of songs" is certainly going to feel high-pressure, unnatural, and about a million miles removed from what Brian's comfortable with.

If it didn't happen organically or to Mike's satisfaction during the 2012 tour, it seems very, *very* unlikely to happen now.

Stamos and McGrath should return to whichever hell they came from.
Sadly, all this was to expect when the excellent Totten and Cowsill were "let go".

The romantic in me hopes that Scott and John left the first time they saw Stamos and McGrath together.

Unfortunately, no. The Stamos/McGrath pairing happened at least as early as 2017. But it did result in this Magnum Opus of our time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdYbymafUd0

    

"THAT'S MIKE LOVE!" [twirls]

Very cool! Thanks for sharing.

Here's a great 2012 interview with Joe Thomas that I just came across, with lots of fascinating details I've not seen before. Delves nicely into his working relationship with Brian, the making of the TWGMTR album, the reunion and more. You get the sense that he deeply appreciated Brian and their collaboration. There's a nice shout out to Jeff Foskett as well.

https://notes.andrewromano.net/joethomasbeachboys

I think this is the first time I've posted something negative, but I am really disappointed with what I'm seeing from Mike & Bruce's group.  John Stamos and Mark McGrath just bounce around the stage like hyperactive kids.  I think John Stamos literally has to try out every microphone on stage.  They add nothing but nonsense to the show.  I also thought the vocals were quite weak.  The overall sound reminds me of a bar band that really doesn't care that much.  They know that everybody is just there to party.  I really wish the music was being given more respect.  I know Mike and Bruce aren't young anymore, but they could put together a much better show that what they are giving people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLjx3YOtpkc

Hard to argue. Whew.

The latest on the situation. Nothing unexpected, and it sounds like everybody is on the same page and in agreement:

https://apnews.com/article/brian-wilson-conservatorship-beach-boys-be53d427864ea9a32d3b4d438625683e

The "TL/DR": The conservatorship has been granted, and everybody seems to be on the same page, including all children (including Carnie and Wendy). There are a few details in the article based on a court-appointed attorney who visited with Brian. It's about what you would expect given what we know. It's definitely a "could be better, but could be worse" kind of situation.

Sounds like all business and personal/medical affairs are as taken care of as they possibly could be, based on the information we have of course.

Honestly, that was a tough read. Oof. But yeah, it is what it is, and could certainly be worse. Thanks for the update.

I love it for sure but it's a more recent design. It's for sale on sites like Instaprints and Etsy, and an artist named Gary Grayson is credited.

Now let me introduce this somewhat new development into the mix. This article is about Magnificent Ambersons and a project to restore it to Welles' original vision, replicating the scenes that were cut without Welles' consent and presumably lost forever:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/jun/18/magnificent-ambersons-rebirth-for-ruined-orson-welles-masterpiece-that-rivalled-citizen-kane


Read through that, and see if it connects as it did with me to the current debates about AI technology in music. Or the use of AI in general to either finish unfinished works or create works that were intended to be a certain way but never materialized. It's all fascinating to me, and I wonder if the negativity surrounding some of the AI works so far will be put on projects such as this one with film restorations. I can't see a dividing line between the two media and the use of tech to recreate or "finish" lost or impossible projects.

Nice! I'm a Welles fan too and this project sounds super cool. I'd love to see it.

In all honesty, the part of that interview that caught and held my attention were comments about new music from Al:

Jardine has four new songs that he hopes to release soon. “One is a beautiful song about a soldier going off to war. Neil Young is singing on it with me. He’s the soldier. I want to get it out pretty soon before we go to war. Then there’s another song called ‘Islands in the Sun,’ which is my follow up to ‘Kokomo.’ I invited Mike to be on it several times, and neither time did he show any interest. I came up with a hell of a song. It’s all about drifting among the islands and the Caribbean and losing oneself. I’ve got Bruce (Johnston) and my son Matt and I singing the Beach Boys’ harmonies. It sounds just like the real thing.

I know Al's productivity (or lack thereof) can be something of a joke among some fans, but I would be more excited for a new Al Jardine EP featuring Neil Young & Bruce Johnston than ANOTHER documentary about The Beach Boys.

I had the same reaction -- I too hope he can get these songs out in months and not years.

Oh man! That's too young. Very sorry to hear this.

As for TWGMTR tracks on subsequent tours, I believe Mike kept doing “Isn’t It Time” with his own band for some late 2012 dates (and possibly into 2013?), and that was it for Mike. Brian did “That’s Why God Made the Radio” and "Summer's Gone" on his first short tour with Al and Dave in 2013 (they also briefly brought back “Your Imagination!”), but they got dropped from most setlists when they had to shorten his setlist for the 2013 joint Jeff Beck tour (I think "TWGMTR" still made it into a few of the joint Beck shows). And then Brian did “Pacific Coast Highway” and “Summer’s Gone” for that one 2014 gig at the Venetian for PBS.

Mike's Beach Boys did "Isn't It Time" sporadically through 2013; I see June and July clips on YouTube. Even back then, let alone today, I thought the context re Mike and TWGMTR made it a really weird choice ("hey, you know that album I keep dissing constantly for some reason? Well, here's the song you want to hear from it!").

Had they continued in 2013, I think the live show could have gotten *even better*. We could have gotten a full “Beach Boys” live version of “Pet Sounds” for instance.

That's a bit poignant and painful to think about, and you're absolutely right.

Tying your last few paragraphs together, I was at the NYC Brian/Jeff Beck show in 2013, when Brian shocked all of us by announcing he and band would play the entire Pet Sounds album. They did, and it was amazing! Now imagine the roof blowing off the place if that had been announced at an **actual full lineup Beach Boys reunion concert**. Damn.

This is what kinda irks me about his answer to the question about TWGMTR: instead of focussing on the positive and getting people interested in the album to help sell a couple more records, he instead focuses solely on his complaints. It was their highest charting album since 1965 (and yes to anyone with a bone to pick about this statement I'm well aware that the chart placement process has changed since 1965, not the point it's just a neat factoid about the album that creates buzz) and ‘Daybreak' is a really good song (seriously this song is amazing with headphones and the harmonies are incredible) and one that Mike should be proud of, so why not say something positive about that?

He starts off answering the question with "Well, I don't know what to say about that in a positive way" as if TWGMTR wasn't their highest debuting album of their career, or as if it wasn't incredible that a new era of fans got to hear some great new songs and Mike vocals? I'm not saying he can't complain, but his answer is so disingenuous to the fundamental reality of the album/situation - if those are his true feelings he really needs to do some TM/Introspection on why he can’t see anything positive in how that album turned out.

Agree with all this for sure. But as we all know, Mike is always going to feel awkward at best looking back at the TWGMTR album and the 2012 tour. From his perspective, he wants to be in charge of the touring Beach Boys and to run them the way he sees fit. Praising a successful Brian-led album and a reunion where he wasn't the star is never going to sit right with him. I obviously agree there are ways to give a more balanced answer.

Isn't It Time is one of my favorite TWGMTR songs, and I seem to remember it somewhat oddly went through some rewriting & lyric changes between the album version and the single version. (On the bridge, "we raise a glass to kindness" became "another day's behind us", etc.) Did Mike have a hand in that?

I have been a rabid Beach Boys fan since childhood. They are my undisputed fav group, Brian Wilson is my fav musician, they all are among my fav singers. Listening to Mike's bass always sends shivers thru my spine.
Have listened to every Beach Boys (and related) music I "could put my hands on", physically or otherwise. Have listened to literally dozens of SMiLE mixes, Adult Child mixes, Paley session mixes etc.
All this is for context, now to AI.
The only AI music I listen to is Dae Lims' creations, and love most of them. Yes, not the Beach Boys, I know, but IMHO it's excellent Beach Boys related stuff. This to say that I don't think that liking Dae Lims makes one a lesser Beach Boys fan. I like what he does BECAUSE I am a Beach Boys fan.

Fun fact: the first few times I saw title topics with "AI" I thought that they were about Al Jardine.

This makes perfect sense to me. I'm not someone who would ever seek out AI music but I've really enjoyed the Dae Lims stuff as well.

The analogy to tribute bands also makes sense to me. We are all fans of 60s/70s music here, and the chances to hear that kind of music performed by the original artists continue to slowly dwindle. I used to turn up my nose at tribute bands in general, but last year caught an amazing performance by Laurel Canyon, a CSNY tribute band. The music was performed with warmth and reverence and emotion and hit all the feels for me. In Beach Boys terms, it might be kind of analogous to an epic performance by The Wondermints more so than e.g. a bar band playing early 60s Beach Boys songs while wearing striped shirts. A band that considers themselves lucky to carry on this great music, and wants to continue giving people enjoyment from it.

The Beach Boys saga is fascinating too because there are an absolutely endless number of what-ifs and paths not explored, and it's strange for me to even be typing this but I do think AI can play a role there when used properly. Something like the AI version of Holy Man is beautiful music, but it's also an interesting way for us fans to *experience* something that sadly didn't happen -- what a full Dennis track backed by The Beach Boys would have sounded like.

Whoops, missed the article link. I see it now.

Seriously? This is about the Jones Beach dustup 10 years ago? How can you tell?

FWIW, I *really* like the trailer. All the feels.

If the book covers the band just up to 1980 as per Howie's interview, then unfortunately 'minimal bad vibes from 1977-1980' makes some sense.

I'd love to have been in the room in 1981 when they both *did* decide to include a Dennis-sung outtake on "Ten Years of Harmony", but went for "Sea Cruise" instead of the roughly *two albums* worth of Dennis material in the vaults.

I hear you for sure... but playing devil's advocate, they weren't "wrong". Sea Cruise sounds like a Beach Boys song was supposed to sound, certainly from the lazy-ass/nostalgia-jukebox perspective of how the public perceived the Beach Boys in 1981. (And Come Go With Me being the breakout single fits right into that.)

If anything, maybe the bigger surprise is deeper-cut songs like River Song, The Trader, Feel Flows etc being tapped for an official Beach Boys compilation.

A great new interview from Ken Sharp/Goldmine with Howie Edelson discussing the new book:

https://www.goldminemag.com/music-history/beach-boys-biographer-sorts-out-the-positivity-and-discord-of-legendary-group

Fantastic interview! Book sounds amazing.

That's great!

Reading between the lines, it sounds to me like she expected a VERY rough encounter with Brian -- likely for good reason, based on their shared past -- and that it went much better than she expected.

Fascinating stuff. Thanks, Ian!

Hi guys,

Really appreciate all the kind words!

Next up is an AI 1963 live show featuring only songs they never played live. I'm 4 songs in - having a lot of fun with this one.

Stay tuned!

DL

What a cool idea. Love the stuff you've been doing! Many thanks for sharing!

Like all of you my heart goes out to Brian and family. Incredibly sad news.