Van Dyke Parks interview in the latest Record Collector

[MBE]

Dysfunctional band with dysfunctional fans...no wonder people always try to find common ground between the Beach Boys and the Beatles. I mean, the Beatles are all a bunch of jyet one idiot posts a stupid remark on the bloobored that almost, essentially, ended Brian's career.

What happened there?

[drbeachboy]

Say what you will about Mike, but the music that the band is most noted for is during the time when Mike was one of the main lyricists for the band. To Mike, when the music was upbeat the band was popular. When Brian went away from the tried and true formula, things began to change in a big way and not all good. The whole band rode on the coatstrings of Brian's compositions. Brian's new music and different behavior probably caused great concern within the band. In hindsight, I can see Mike's point of view on things. Not that I agree with it totally.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm not wanting to airbrush Mike out of the picture or anything, as it can't be denied how well the "band" as a group entity worked in the glory years of the early and mid 60's when they were setting trends. But I'd also suggest the phrase "one of" the lyricists is a very important asterisk in the story. The Beach Boys were trend setters in bringing the California mythology to the rest of the US with hot rod culture and lingo as well as surfing, apart from the usual teen love and loss material. And I'd say Roger Christian's lyrics earned them the hot rod crowd because Christian was immersed in that scene and knew what he was writing about, as was Gary Usher to some degree who was a potent force on those early myth-making songs. Same thing with the earliest surfing songs: Brian went to people he knew who actually surfed to get the lowdown on the right terms and phrases to use in the songs so they wouldn't sound phony. Great example: that classic line about turning on the radio to get the surf reports. Did that come from Mike or from a real surfer? Yet how many kids in the Midwest heard that line and thought how cool is it to wake up and hear the surf reports on the radio every morning? Pure California mythology that appealed to so many and still does.

Mike seemed to be good at coming up with a good hook after the fact, and after the concept was in place. If it was a song about hot rods, he'd latch onto one key term and make a lyric line out of it. But was he the originator of that? Does it matter in the long run? I don't know, but I'd say Mike was good at the coattail-riding (not in a bad way) elements of this stuff after the groundwork was already done, and the concept was set in place to allow variations on the theme in the lyrics.

Again, Mike's success can't be denied and the legacy of lyrics he wrote will stand forever in music history rightfully so, yet the history has to stay realistic too and not sound like one of Mike's press or P.R. announcements where he takes more credit than he's due.

[Runaways]

Well you're right about that. However, FWIW, he had and probably would still have a great knack for writing with Brian. I don't care if he is the biggest scumbag west of the Hudson... It is sad how all this came to be.

On the other hand, with VDP ripping Mike every chance he gets, he might end up being the one who stalls this beast in mid trax... It's all ridiculous.

What did Dylan say at the R&R induction ceremony about forgiveness??

good lord.  How does VDP rip Mike?  Sounds like VDP was over things before the private jet thing occurred.  And then that terrible movie where Mike tries to make Van Dyke look like a druggie weirdo.  You're a little blinded by your fanhood noname.  

Everyone knows Mike doesn't like smile, why doesn't he say anything about it now?  Does he still not like it?? Then he's free to say that.  I mean, the way that music is regarded, Mike pretty much is eating crow.  And the fact that VDP was treated so poorly by mike, just because of VDP's association with the music is pathetic.  I don't know why Mike doesn't just express his thoughts on the music, if he doesn't like it, that's better than pretending you do.  And if he does see the artistry in it now, why doesn't he just admit his perspective has changed?

He doesn't have to of course, but he's not exactly getting the full legacy he wants, if even he's trying hard to get it.  let go of your egoo

[Jason]

Dysfunctional band with dysfunctional fans...no wonder people always try to find common ground between the Beach Boys and the Beatles. I mean, the Beatles are all a bunch of jyet one idiot posts a stupid remark on the bloobored that almost, essentially, ended Brian's career.

What happened there?

I believe it was in response to Live at the Roxy; some guy went completely apeshit on the forum and basically stated that Brian should just retire. Brian apparently caught wind of this and, it's rumored, almost DID retire in the aftermath.

[drbeachboy]

Mike wasn't thrilled with the lyrics written for Smile. He never really put down the music in any interview that I ever read.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Say what you will about Mike, but the music that the band is most noted for is during the time when Mike was one of the main lyricists for the band.

I don't know. I'm pretty sure the band is most noted for Pet Sounds.

To Mike, when the music was upbeat the band was popular.

To be honest, I think the idea that Mike had his finger on the pulse of the nation has been dramatically overstated. I don't think Mike Love had or has much of a clue as to what could or couldn't make a hit single.

When Brian went away from the tried and true formula, things began to change in a big way and not all good.

No, but there was a lot of good. Brian scored the most massive hit single of the Beach Boys' career up to that point. By the end of 1966, the band was one of the most popular in the world, and they had just put out the best album of their career.

The whole band rode on the coatstrings of Brian's compositions. Brian's new music and different behavior probably caused great concern within the band. In hindsight, I can see Mike's point of view on things.

Not me. I don't think that anyone who rides on another person's coatstrings has any right to complain about where the coat happens to be going next.

[The Heartical Don]

Dysfunctional band with dysfunctional fans...no wonder people always try to find common ground between the Beach Boys and the Beatles. I mean, the Beatles are all a bunch of jyet one idiot posts a stupid remark on the bloobored that almost, essentially, ended Brian's career.

What happened there?

I believe it was in response to Live at the Roxy; some guy went completely apeshit on the forum and basically stated that Brian should just retire. Brian apparently caught wind of this and, it's rumored, almost DID retire in the aftermath.

Why didn't Brian simply reply with a deadpan 'Judas!' then, on his own board? That would have been cool, IMHO.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Mike wasn't thrilled with the lyrics written for Smile. He never really put down the music in any interview that I ever read.

From Mike Love:

“I didn’t resonate well with what was going on at that time. He was writing these songs under the influence of various substances and it didn’t make any sense to me.”

I think it's safe to assume that he didn't like any part of Smile.

[drbeachboy]

Pet Sounds? Maybe! You ask most Fans and you'll get song titles, not albums. Not sure how old you are, but they were big on AM radio. They were known for their hits in their heyday, even though the albums sold well. The 45 was king. Brian scored one big hit single aside from the formula. I see what your saying, but one hit doesn't cement the point. Anyone has a right to complain, but you takes your chances. In a job, if things are bad and you complain, it either gets fixed or you get fired. Remember, they were family and that is a strong bond. They were in it together.

[drbeachboy]

Mike wasn't thrilled with the lyrics written for Smile. He never really put down the music in any interview that I ever read.

From Mike Love:

“I didn’t resonate well with what was going on at that time. He was writing these songs under the influence of various substances and it didn’t make any sense to me.”

I think it's safe to assume that he didn't like any part of Smile.

OK, if you say so. I don't read it that way. I think he didn't like the drug scene Brian was in , not the music itself.

[Mahalo]

You're a little blinded by your fanhood noname.  

I'm no expert, my posts do a good job of conveying that...however I'm not the biggest fan of Mike Love either. Anyone who knows me will you tell you.

So he gets too much credit, he's a royal jerk, he killed SMiLE!, and ruined the image of the Beach Boys. I get it. VDP was over everything until the private jet incident, and he doesn't rip into Mike. It's all making sense to me now.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I used to feel the same way about Mike as some of you but have since come to conclusion that the situation isn't as simple or easy as a "I hate Mike" stance. I don't know how you can deny that he wasn't one of the creative forces behind the band. But I say live and let live. Mike had issues and not all of them were unjustified.

Seems to me the schism in the group (between Mike and Brian) began with California Girls. Then VDP and SMiLE only complicated the hell out of it. The problem with the Beach Boys has always been the dis-functionality of communication between family members and most of us know how complicated that is. To find a villain in a mess like that does everyone a great disservice.

Good point, BUT..... it's much easier to find a handy villain., therefore this will never stop.

[CarlTheVoice]

Thanks for posting that link hypehat, it was an interesting read for a fan who wants to know more!

I realise this post comes way after the page this was on, sorry!

[Chocolate Shake Man]

OK, if you say so. I don't read it that way. I think he didn't like the drug scene Brian was in , not the music itself.

Well, then you're misreading the quotation because he's specifically talking about the songs that were influenced by that drug scene. So if he's putting down the drug use, is he not also putting down the things that were influenced by that drug use?

Do you think that the sentence would make sense if he said this?:

"I didn't resonate well with what was going on at that time. He was writing these great sounding songs under the influence of various substances and it didn't make any sense to me."

Well, I guess so. I suppose he could be saying how confounded he was about how Brian could make such great music despite not resonating with Brian's drug use that happened to be influencing those songs.

Pet Sounds? Maybe! You ask most Fans and you'll get song titles, not albums

I think most fans would say Pet Sounds. I think your average fan of 60s oldies would give you the song titles.

Brian scored one big hit single aside from the formula. I see what your saying, but one hit doesn't cement the point.

He didn't just score one big hit single. The Beach Boys had three singles in the top 10 in 1966, which was the same as 1965.

In a job, if things are bad and you complain, it either gets fixed or you get fired. Remember, they were family and that is a strong bond. They were in it together.

Saying that "they were in it together" is different from saying that four people were riding on one person's coattails and then complained when the one person started going in a direction they didn't like. That's not being "in it together" at all. So which one was it?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Good point, BUT..... it's much easier to find a handy villain.,

And no one makes it "easier to find a handy villain" than Mike Love.

[drbeachboy]

I used to feel the same way about Mike as some of you but have since come to conclusion that the situation isn't as simple or easy as a "I hate Mike" stance. I don't know how you can deny that he wasn't one of the creative forces behind the band. But I say live and let live. Mike had issues and not all of them were unjustified.

Seems to me the schism in the group (between Mike and Brian) began with California Girls. Then VDP and SMiLE only complicated the hell out of it. The problem with the Beach Boys has always been the dis-functionality of communication between family members and most of us know how complicated that is. To find a villain in a mess like that does everyone a great disservice.

Good point, BUT..... it's much easier to find a handy villain., therefore this will never stop.

That is exactly what it is! Brian killed Smile, no one else. It is very easy to pass the blame. I look at this way, times were changing quickly and it seems Brian & Dennis were shifting toward that new scene. Not sure about Carl, but Mike, Al and Bruce were most likely old school and didn't take to the changes as fast. Lots of regular people fell out the same way. Some changed with the times, while others stayed with what they knew and how they grew up.

[Runaways]

You're a little blinded by your fanhood noname.  

So he gets too much credit, he's a royal jerk, he killed SMiLE!, and ruined the image of the Beach Boys. I get it. VDP was over everything until the private jet incident, and he doesn't rip into Mike. It's all making sense to me now.

haha, stop assuming everything.  all i'm say is that mike's a dick and has treated VDP poorly for no reason.  So why should VDP speak nice about Mike while even when VDP treated him normally, mike still acted like a jerk.  For no reason.  mike didn't kill smile, mike supporters probably say that more than mike haters say "mike killed smile" (not that you are).  

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Good point, BUT..... it's much easier to find a handy villain.,

And no one makes it "easier to find a handy villain" than Mike Love.

Yup, and the words "easy" and "handy" don't require much thought or investigation.

[Runaways]

Good point, BUT..... it's much easier to find a handy villain.,

And no one makes it "easier to find a handy villain" than Mike Love.

Yup, and the words "easy" and "handy" don't require much thought or investigation.

obviously mike didn't kill smile, but obviously his unwillingness (and the others, mike had more clout) to go with brian didn't exactly make it easy.   

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Yup, and the words "easy" and "handy" don't require much thought or investigation.

Just like it has been really easy for you to avoid responding to a single quotation of mine that I brought up to defend my position to you earlier in this thread. Instead you decided to just make some snide comment about how easy it is find a villain without actually dealing with anybody's reasoning. You are an expert in what is easy and handy.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

obviously mike didn't kill smile, but obviously his unwillingness (and the others, mike had more clout) to go with brian didn't exactly make it easy.   

Yes.

I'll ask again: Is it a coincidence that the Smile project which had been running fairly smoothly began to fall apart almost immediately after the December vocal sessions?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

if that's the case, then Smile was a feather in the wind that had no chance from the get-go

[drbeachboy]

If known by Pet Sounds, then why did it not sell well? People may know now by Pet Sounds, but not then. Mike said writing songs, which include lyrics. He has always knocked the lyrics, but I've also heard him praise the music and say how dynamic it was, etc. I'm sure he did not like everything Brian wrote for Smile, but on the whole, I think Mike respected Brian as a composer. As for the hit records, I thought we were talking GV or Smile era onward, not Pet Sounds. Also, I wasn't talking #1's, but overall Top 40. Sure they had a few through 69, but in the US it would be 1976 and "It's OK" before they scored another Top 40 hit. As to my "riding coatails" remark, you might think things work your way, but in the real world people have opinions and feelings. If the band members had concerns, I'm sure they were expressed, coatails or not.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Yup, and the words "easy" and "handy" don't require much thought or investigation.

Just like it has been really easy for you to avoid responding to a single quotation of mine that I brought up to defend my position to you earlier in this thread. Instead you decided to just make some snide comment about how easy it is find a villain without actually dealing with anybody's reasoning. You are an expert in what is easy and handy.

I don't need to respond to your direct quotes. You're just spouting the party-line that has been repeated to death and will never change. Myke haters are so quick to anger and take offense when anyone tries to suggest another possibility, no matter how tactful or well reasoned their opinions might be. It just gets so old.