Mike's band

[Douchepool]

It's obvious the Andy posse is all joining in to bash SB & OSD. Fact is, they weren't the ones to start personally insulting other board members. Micha was. Then Mike's  Beard joined in,  followed by andy and the RBB. And your surprised that they fight back when attacked?

You guys all get your panties in a twist when your idol is slighted. I understand your unhappiness with it but personal attacks make you no better.

The "Andy posse?" How's that tinfoil hat on your head? Hopefully it isn't too tight; it might cut off whatever circulation that still goes to your brain. The "Andy posse." That has got to be one of the damnedest strawmen I've ever seen. I have no personal issue with SB; he and I are actually pretty cool with each other. No one is going after OSD because he's insulting "our idol;" he's being made an example of. There's a big difference. He's no innocent victim.

[MookieZ]

I) I'm not one to post a lot, but I do enjoy reading other people's thoughts.
II) This is made impossible here by people who post many times a day but seem to have nothing to contribute.
III) The few other messageboards I frequent are nothing like this mainly due to strong moderators.
IV) I end up only reading posts by a few people (c-man, Desper, Ian, AGD, Totten & Linett when they show up...)
----a) Also posts by other long-timers who I remember from other places (Cam Mott, that random mix of characters that Dauber uses...)
V) I'm sure I'm missing many thoughtful & intelligent posts from others but it's not worth grinding through the chaff.
VI) All I want is a place where reasonable people can exchange their opinions, thoughts, ideas, discoveries, etc. Can someone point me to such a place?

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

They all contribute, or have, to the board. OSD and his minon do not, and people have had enough.

As for insulting other board members... they do that with every post.

That's pretty rich coming from someone with a PROVEN history of arrogance and maliciousness toward posters who don't buy into your warped train of thought.

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

It's obvious the Andy posse is all joining in to bash SB & OSD. Fact is, they weren't the ones to start personally insulting other board members. Micha was. Then Mike's  Beard joined in,  followed by andy and the RBB. And your surprised that they fight back when attacked?

You guys all get your panties in a twist when your idol is slighted. I understand your unhappiness with it but personal attacks make you no better.

     Andy posse? 

[Mike's Beard]

We get it, you don't like Mike. Fine, thing is we heard you the first 500 FUCKING TIMES.

[LostArt]

I, too, was a member of the old Smile Shop board, and drifted here when that one imploded.  I was never a frequent poster, but I used to post more often than I do now.  I still check here pretty much every day to see if I can learn something, but it's getting difficult to learn anything here anymore.  This board used to have a lot of excellent posters that do not post here anymore, and it makes me very sad to see this board going down the toilet.  I'm 59 years old.  I don't need this infantile, schoolyard bullshit.  How old are some of these posters that only post insults, against the band members of one of my favorite bands, and worse yet, against each other? 

I have been accused, quite seriously in a PM, of being AGD and posting as LostArt, simply because I 'dared' to post that I agreed with Andrew on some subject that I can't even remember, and because Andrew and I are roughly the same age.  Never mind the fact that we live in different countries, separated by the Atlantic ocean.  How crazy is that?  People are talking about conspiracy theories and such.  Unbelievable. 

I am all in favor of free speech, so I cannot ask for anyone to be banned from posting here, but please, for the sake of this community, for the sake of all that come here as fans of The Beach Boys, please stop this childish behavior.  Post your thoughts, by all means, but have something to say, and back it up with whatever facts you may have.  Stop insulting each other like 7 year old schoolyard bullies, and stop insulting members of the band THAT WE ARE ALL HERE TO TALK ABOUT. 

Meh.  This post probably won't change anyone's behavior, but I feel better getting it off my chest, so it's all good.

Good Vibrations, indeed.  Hmmm?

[KDS]

I, too, was a member of the old Smile Shop board, and drifted here when that one imploded.  I was never a frequent poster, but I used to post more often than I do now.  I still check here pretty much every day to see if I can learn something, but it's getting difficult to learn anything here anymore.  This board used to have a lot of excellent posters that do not post here anymore, and it makes me very sad to see this board going down the toilet.  I'm 59 years old.  I don't need this infantile, schoolyard bullshit.  How old are some of these posters that only post insults, against the band members of one of my favorite bands, and worse yet, against each other? 

I have been accused, quite seriously in a PM, of being AGD and posting as LostArt, simply because I 'dared' to post that I agreed with Andrew on some subject that I can't even remember, and because Andrew and I are roughly the same age.  Never mind the fact that we live in different countries, separated by the Atlantic ocean.  How crazy is that?  People are talking about conspiracy theories and such.  Unbelievable. 

I am all in favor of free speech, so I cannot ask for anyone to be banned from posting here, but please, for the sake of this community, for the sake of all that come here as fans of The Beach Boys, please stop this childish behavior.  Post your thoughts, by all means, but have something to say, and back it up with whatever facts you may have.  Stop insulting each other like 7 year old schoolyard bullies, and stop insulting members of the band THAT WE ARE ALL HERE TO TALK ABOUT. 

Meh.  This post probably won't change anyone's behavior, but I feel better getting it off my chest, so it's all good.

Good Vibrations, indeed.  Hmmm?

Amen.

[Douchepool]

I, too, was a member of the old Smile Shop board, and drifted here when that one imploded.  I was never a frequent poster, but I used to post more often than I do now.  I still check here pretty much every day to see if I can learn something, but it's getting difficult to learn anything here anymore.  This board used to have a lot of excellent posters that do not post here anymore, and it makes me very sad to see this board going down the toilet.  I'm 59 years old.  I don't need this infantile, schoolyard bullshit.  How old are some of these posters that only post insults, against the band members of one of my favorite bands, and worse yet, against each other? 

I have been accused, quite seriously in a PM, of being AGD and posting as LostArt, simply because I 'dared' to post that I agreed with Andrew on some subject that I can't even remember, and because Andrew and I are roughly the same age.  Never mind the fact that we live in different countries, separated by the Atlantic ocean.  How crazy is that?  People are talking about conspiracy theories and such.  Unbelievable. 

I am all in favor of free speech, so I cannot ask for anyone to be banned from posting here, but please, for the sake of this community, for the sake of all that come here as fans of The Beach Boys, please stop this childish behavior.  Post your thoughts, by all means, but have something to say, and back it up with whatever facts you may have.  Stop insulting each other like 7 year old schoolyard bullies, and stop insulting members of the band THAT WE ARE ALL HERE TO TALK ABOUT. 

Meh.  This post probably won't change anyone's behavior, but I feel better getting it off my chest, so it's all good.

Good Vibrations, indeed.  Hmmm?

+1

[clack]

The anti-Mike obsession is tedious enough, but when this obsessive dislike is expressed without cleverness, without variation, without humor -- it becomes unbearable.

[LostArt]

The anti-Mike obsession is tedious enough, but when this obsessive dislike is expressed without cleverness, without variation, without humor -- it becomes unbearable.

Kind of like listening to Donald Trump.

[Douchepool]

Trump's at least mildly entertaining. (That is not an endorsement of what he says)

[Andrew G. Doe]

Should the mods be watching, I think we have a consensus. The status quo cannot be allowed to continue if this forum is to survive in any meaningful form. There are also posters who should be suspended for their own good, judging by posts in this thread. At least one has gone completely over the edge in his accusations.

[Micha]

Stop insulting each other like 7 year old schoolyard bullies, and stop insulting members of the band THAT WE ARE ALL HERE TO TALK ABOUT. 

Problem is, some aren't here to talk about the band. Some are here to insult certain members of the band and to be able to act like 7 year old school bullies which they can't in real life.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Stop insulting each other like 7 year old schoolyard bullies, and stop insulting members of the band THAT WE ARE ALL HERE TO TALK ABOUT. 

Problem is, some aren't here to talk about the band. Some are here to insult certain members of the band and to be able to act like 7 year old school bullies which they can't in real life.

OSD is in his late 60s. Just sayin'...

[KDS]

Should the mods be watching, I think we have a consensus. The status quo cannot be allowed to continue if this forum is to survive in any meaningful form. There are also posters who should be suspended for their own good, judging by posts in this thread. At least one has gone completely over the edge in his accusations.

+1

[guitarfool2002]

Here are a few scenarios to consider, please add your opinions or overall thoughts on these and discuss.

1. Should a poster be given a ban, or is it a ban-able offense if a board member sends an unsolicited private message to another board member which contains profanity, something the recipient finds insulting bordering on a personal attack, or anything that would be considered offensive or inappropriate directed at that board member?

2. Should members of the forum be allowed to engage in intimidation or outright bullying tactics in order to get people whose posts or words they don't like to either leave or get kicked off the forum? If this is done, should it be considered a ban-able offense?

3. Should all criticisms posted against any band members or related individuals be considered a ban-able offense, and how should they be weighed and who determines what is offensive and what isn't?

4. Should groups of board members have the ability to ask for another member to be removed from the forum if they don't like that person's posts, or the content and tone of those posts, or if someone thinks that person is trolling the board? If so, on whose standards would the definition of trolling be applied when making those decisions? Example, if multiple board members consider and name another member as a troll based on their posts, whose burden would it become to prove that case, and on whose standards would "trolling" be defined?

5. Does the board community wish this forum to remain an open discussion forum, or should more power be given to certain members to censor and remove individual posts? And on whose standards would that censorship be applied?

[Mike's Beard]

Here's another one;
6. Should a forum member who was banned outright before for calling a band member's wife and daughter 'whores' and then allowed back with explicit instructions to lay off personally insulting said bandmember, which he has totally ignored to the point of threadcrapping the entire forum be allowed to remain a member?

[KDS]

Here are a few scenarios to consider, please add your opinions or overall thoughts on these and discuss.

1. Should a poster be given a ban, or is it a ban-able offense if a board member sends an unsolicited private message to another board member which contains profanity, something the recipient finds insulting bordering on a personal attack, or anything that would be considered offensive or inappropriate directed at that board member?

2. Should members of the forum be allowed to engage in intimidation or outright bullying tactics in order to get people whose posts or words they don't like to either leave or get kicked off the forum? If this is done, should it be considered a ban-able offense?

3. Should all criticisms posted against any band members or related individuals be considered a ban-able offense, and how should they be weighed and who determines what is offensive and what isn't?

4. Should groups of board members have the ability to ask for another member to be removed from the forum if they don't like that person's posts, or the content and tone of those posts, or if someone thinks that person is trolling the board? If so, on whose standards would the definition of trolling be applied when making those decisions? Example, if multiple board members consider and name another member as a troll based on their posts, whose burden would it become to prove that case, and on whose standards would "trolling" be defined?

5. Does the board community wish this forum to remain an open discussion forum, or should more power be given to certain members to censor and remove individual posts? And on whose standards would that censorship be applied?

GF,

Speaking strictly from my experiences, I'd like to be able to discuss all things Beach Boys including

- New material from any member of The Beach Boys - past or present, including Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, Carl, Dennis, Blondie, Ricky
- Any tour dates or concerts by Brian or The Beach Boys
- Any new interviews with current or former members of the group
- Any books written about or by The Beach Boys

And I'd like to be able to read actual opinions on these topics, and be able to discuss these opinions with other fans without having the threads derailed by unsolicited hatred toward former or current members of The Beach Boys.  

[Douchepool]

It's one thing to have open discussion and even the occasional jab but when said behavior reaches the level it has then something may have to give. The moderators have always used best judgment for better or worse. There's no reason why that should change; but when a single poster derails EVERY thread he or she posts in a red flag should go up. Remember nobody? Kirkmc? thomasogg? Regularly shat on every thread they posted in. There were also calls to remove them. The moderators eventually had to act because it was getting ridiculous. No one is saying there should be a supercommittee of special board members to be the thought police around here, but when the overall health of the board is at stake, the less desirable elements have to be removed. Any good community does this in real life; it must be the same here.

[ppk700]

Here are a few scenarios to consider, please add your opinions or overall thoughts on these and discuss.

1. Should a poster be given a ban, or is it a ban-able offense if a board member sends an unsolicited private message to another board member which contains profanity, something the recipient finds insulting bordering on a personal attack, or anything that would be considered offensive or inappropriate directed at that board member?

2. Should members of the forum be allowed to engage in intimidation or outright bullying tactics in order to get people whose posts or words they don't like to either leave or get kicked off the forum? If this is done, should it be considered a ban-able offense?

3. Should all criticisms posted against any band members or related individuals be considered a ban-able offense, and how should they be weighed and who determines what is offensive and what isn't?

4. Should groups of board members have the ability to ask for another member to be removed from the forum if they don't like that person's posts, or the content and tone of those posts, or if someone thinks that person is trolling the board? If so, on whose standards would the definition of trolling be applied when making those decisions? Example, if multiple board members consider and name another member as a troll based on their posts, whose burden would it become to prove that case, and on whose standards would "trolling" be defined?

5. Does the board community wish this forum to remain an open discussion forum, or should more power be given to certain members to censor and remove individual posts? And on whose standards would that censorship be applied?

1. Yes

2. No, it shouldn't be allowed - so yes, it should be a ban-able offense

3. No - and that should be the job of the moderators

4. Sure - but ultimately the moderators should be the judge of whether the individual poster that the group wants banned should actually be banned

5. Yes, it should be an open discussion, but more power should be given to certain members, and already has - those members with the power are the moderators


This is such a strange website. So much hostility, anger, intolerance... this thread is a prime example of that. We're all here because at the end of the day we're all Beach Boys fans. Guess what? One Mr. David Marks recently had quite a health scare, and inevitably, members of the band will pass away sooner or later. What exactly is it going to take to end all this fighting? The passing of Mike Love? The passing of Brian Wilson?

There is a lot of hatred on this website, and the hatred originates with certain posters. Ban them. Hell, you guys can make me the moderator, I'll get the job done. I've seen posters banned for some fairly head-scratching things, and I wouldn't be surprised if my post right here gets my banned. At this point I don't even care.

 

[Douchepool]

Why would your post get you banned?

[Marty Castillo]

Here are a few scenarios to consider, please add your opinions or overall thoughts on these and discuss.

1. Should a poster be given a ban, or is it a ban-able offense if a board member sends an unsolicited private message to another board member which contains profanity, something the recipient finds insulting bordering on a personal attack, or anything that would be considered offensive or inappropriate directed at that board member?

2. Should members of the forum be allowed to engage in intimidation or outright bullying tactics in order to get people whose posts or words they don't like to either leave or get kicked off the forum? If this is done, should it be considered a ban-able offense?

3. Should all criticisms posted against any band members or related individuals be considered a ban-able offense, and how should they be weighed and who determines what is offensive and what isn't?

4. Should groups of board members have the ability to ask for another member to be removed from the forum if they don't like that person's posts, or the content and tone of those posts, or if someone thinks that person is trolling the board? If so, on whose standards would the definition of trolling be applied when making those decisions? Example, if multiple board members consider and name another member as a troll based on their posts, whose burden would it become to prove that case, and on whose standards would "trolling" be defined?

5. Does the board community wish this forum to remain an open discussion forum, or should more power be given to certain members to censor and remove individual posts? And on whose standards would that censorship be applied?

GF,

Speaking strictly from my experiences, I'd like to be able to discuss all things Beach Boys including

- New material from any member of The Beach Boys - past or present, including Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, Carl, Dennis, Blondie, Ricky
- Any tour dates or concerts by Brian or The Beach Boys
- Any new interviews with current or former members of the group
- Any books written about or by The Beach Boys

And I'd like to be able to read actual opinions on these topics, and be able to discuss these opinions with other fans without having the threads derailed by unsolicited hatred by former or current members of The Beach Boys.  

Spot on. I think the overwhelming majority of folks on this board can engage in respectful debate. There is a small handful of posters that only troll. If the moderators are having a hard time figuring out trolling behavior, I think it is best to paraphrase Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, "I know it when I see it."

I would not advocate for an outright ban of any member, currently. I do think warnings should be issued, if they haven't already. Followed by suspensions/bans if the trolling behavior persists.

[Robbie Mac]

AGD vs. OSD in the Octagon at UFC 200. Dana White would make millions.

[filledeplage]

Here are a few scenarios to consider, please add your opinions or overall thoughts on these and discuss.

{First, my hat is off to the mods.  They have an utterly impossible job.  Balance reasonableness and opinion.} {I'm making up my own quote sections just to respond to this.}

1. Should a poster be given a ban, or is it a ban-able offense if a board member sends an unsolicited private message to another board member which contains profanity, something the recipient finds insulting bordering on a personal attack, or anything that would be considered offensive or inappropriate directed at that board member?

{GF- Only the mods have access to look at those messages.  In the past the mods have been tolerant and have used good discretion.  Behind the scenes, regular posters aren't in the position to determine profanity  or insults.  Some people have very thin skins and consider almost anything offensive. Most posters who have something to say will do so right out in the open, and might choose their words more wisely.}

2. Should members of the forum be allowed to engage in intimidation or outright bullying tactics in order to get people whose posts or words they don't like to either leave or get kicked off the forum? If this is done, should it be considered a ban-able offense?

{No, they shouldn't - no one should "gang up" to intimidate others.  And, more subtle, are those who attack, lodge barbs and generally refuse to follow that rule #2 urging posters to refrain from tearing each other down and rather build others up.  It would chill the discussions to ban for non-agreement.  Disagreement doesn't equate to hostility.}  

3. Should all criticisms posted against any band members or related individuals be considered a ban-able offense, and how should they be weighed and who determines what is offensive and what isn't?

{Criticisms that are fact based and not insult-based, meaning an offense that is based on physical appearance might require some oversight. There is a difference between a "one liner" and a systematic and continuous harangue that derails a discussion.  That is just common sense and reasonableness.  The mods have been pretty good, tolerant of strong opinions, because not allowing strong opinions (which are supported - and not insulting barbs) would create a censorship status, and I don't think anyone wants that.  But many have stopped posting because of exactly this type of constant harangue. }  

4. Should groups of board members have the ability to ask for another member to be removed from the forum if they don't like that person's posts, or the content and tone of those posts, or if someone thinks that person is trolling the board? If so, on whose standards would the definition of trolling be applied when making those decisions? Example, if multiple board members consider and name another member as a troll based on their posts, whose burden would it become to prove that case, and on whose standards would "trolling" be defined?

{Not agreeing, if supported reasonably and not the basis of a personal attack should be the way to go.  Identifying "trolling" is like the Supreme Court trying to define porn.  It is "hard to define, but you know it when you see it."  It is a subjective standard but banning should be a "last resort" not a "first response," unless there is a matter so egregious that the mods agree that a poster needs an immediate ban. The mods should have that discretion. There has been a great deal of restraint exercised lately.  Some posters who have posted in this thread, have articulated that they had stopped posting because of all this nonsense. That is just not right.  And the mods have seen these credible posters disappear because of the nonsense.}

5. Does the board community wish this forum to remain an open discussion forum, or should more power be given to certain members to censor and remove individual posts? And on whose standards would that censorship be applied?

{Open and uncensored discussions, done in good taste, should be the rule and not the exception. As far as the standards go, we have rules of the road set forth by Charles Le Page@ComicList, and they aren't new.  Maybe the mods can send a reminder that those are the guidelines - "Rules and Guidelines - read this before posting."  The rules are there.  They just need to be observed and enforced.  Everyone who signs on accepts those conditions.  If a poster cannot conform his or her conduct and posts to the rules, there should be consequences, otherwise it is a mockery to have them. }  

GF - I generally don't split posts but since it is a numbered inquiry, it seemed best to address each question separately.

You mods do a great job.  Some, here, would try the patience of Job.  Thanks for the time you dedicate to this board.  I waited a long time to discuss BB music.  It would be a shame to lose this forum.  

[Andrew G. Doe]

My two cents, and worth exactly that...

Here are a few scenarios to consider, please add your opinions or overall thoughts on these and discuss.

1. Should a poster be given a ban, or is it a ban-able offense if a board member sends an unsolicited private message to another board member which contains profanity, something the recipient finds insulting bordering on a personal attack, or anything that would be considered offensive or inappropriate directed at that board member?

Define "unsolicited": a response to an attack on-forum is hardly unsolicited. "You're a complete f*ckwit" coming out of the blue is. Not black & white. One posters profanity is another's common parlance, as is what may be considered offensive. Guidelines and if necessary, rules, should be established.

2. Should members of the forum be allowed to engage in intimidation or outright bullying tactics in order to get people whose posts or words they don't like to either leave or get kicked off the forum? If this is done, should it be considered a ban-able offense?

That's for the mods to decide. That's why they're mods. Again, bullying to one poster would be banter to another. 50,000 shades of gray.

3. Should all criticisms posted against any band members or related individuals be considered a ban-able offense, and how should they be weighed and who determines what is offensive and what isn't?

No, not all criticism: reasonable and reasoned criticism is the lifeblood of fora such as this. Would you ban someone for saying "Brian sang off-key" ? Relentless and incontinent criticism of someone is a different matter entirely (but hey, I would say that, wouldn't I ?). What's offensive and what's not should be obvious to anyone with a fair, balanced outlook. Again, if not, that's what mods are for. To moderate.

4. Should groups of board members have the ability to ask for another member to be removed from the forum if they don't like that person's posts, or the content and tone of those posts, or if someone thinks that person is trolling the board? If so, on whose standards would the definition of trolling be applied when making those decisions? Example, if multiple board members consider and name another member as a troll based on their posts, whose burden would it become to prove that case, and on whose standards would "trolling" be defined?

Yes, if there's a groundswell of discontent (as in this thread). Definition of trolling ? This from Wikipedia: "In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, often for their own amusement." Emphasis mine. Relating to this thread, it seems there's a general consensus on how to define trolling. It's here, I don't need to underscore it.

5. Does the board community wish this forum to remain an open discussion forum, or should more power be given to certain members to censor and remove individual posts? And on whose standards would that censorship be applied?

There are already "certain members" who can "censor and remove individual posts". They're called mods. Can't speak for anyone else, but I want this board to remain an open discussion forum. However, for this to be so, measures  have to be taken to nullify those who abuse their right of reply by, frankly, trolling (see above) and make this forum a less toxic environment than it currently is.

In one all-embracing response to all your points - that's what moderators should be doing, but of late have not. That's not a criticism, that's a simple fact. For whatever reason (and I'm aware some mods have had RL problems to address), the level of moderation here has recently declined to next to nothing, with the result that disruptive elements have had a field day. Speaking personally, I've been accused of being on Mike's payroll, of causing the downfall of every defunct BB forum since time began and of being able to somehow manipulate this board behind the scenes (in effect, of pulling the mods strings for my own ends, and if I were a mod I'd be deeply insulted at any such insinuation). The latter two claims are so laughable as to be dismissed as the ravings of an unhinged mind. Oh, and of editing someone else's post to my own ends. Equally laughable, equally unhinged.

I remember what this board once was. It could be like that again, but not unless some draconian measures are implemented.