Carl and Mike's relationship

[pixletwin]

The psychedelic Wall of Sound? I have never heard of that before. 

[drbeachboy]

I think you forgot a few fads and circumstances they also exploited?/used to their advantage in the earlier hitmaking part of their career.

Such as?

Car culture, motorbikes, skateboarding, Santa Claus, and Psychedelia would be my examples.

They didn't write any songs about psychedelia as far as I know. But you are sort of correct about car culture, in a way although the car song has pretty much always been a more of an ongoing topic of American pop music rather than a fad. I also wouldn't call Santa Claus a fad.

Pet Sounds is considered the first (or at least, the precursor to) psychedelic rock album. SMiLE is about as psychedelic rock/pop as you get.

Pet Sounds is not about psychedelia, as say Little Deuce Coupe is about a car or cars. Also, I find Lennon's songs on Rubber Soul are more psychedelic than anything on Pet Sounds and it was 1/2 year or so earlier.

Hang onto your Ego/I Know There's an Answer is about tripping. The backing tracks of PS are very complex and evocative which foreshadowed the psychedelic wall of sound in 1967. What's psychedelic about RS?

To me Psychedelia is more the music or both music and lyrics, but not just lyrics. Hell, you can write lyrics about tripping and set it to a Waltz if you wanted. As for Rubber Soul, Think For Yourself, The Word and Girl all sound more psychedelic anything on Pet Sounds. Even Nowhere Man is trippy.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I think you forgot a few fads and circumstances they also exploited?/used to their advantage in the earlier hitmaking part of their career.

Such as?

Car culture, motorbikes, skateboarding, Santa Claus, and Psychedelia would be my examples.

They didn't write any songs about psychedelia as far as I know. But you are sort of correct about car culture, in a way although the car song has pretty much always been a more of an ongoing topic of American pop music rather than a fad. I also wouldn't call Santa Claus a fad.

Pet Sounds is considered the first (or at least, the precursor to) psychedelic rock album. SMiLE is about as psychedelic rock/pop as you get.

Pet Sounds is not about psychedelia, as say Little Deuce Coupe is about a car or cars. Also, I find Lennon's songs on Rubber Soul are more psychedelic than anything on Pet Sounds and it was 1/2 year or so earlier.

Hang onto your Ego/I Know There's an Answer is about tripping. The backing tracks of PS are very complex and evocative which foreshadowed the psychedelic wall of sound in 1967. What's psychedelic about RS?

To me Psychedelia is more the music or both music and lyrics, but not just lyrics. Hell, you can write lyrics about tripping and set it to a Waltz if you wanted. As for Rubber Soul, Think For Yourself, The Word and Girl all sound more psychedelic anything on Pet Sounds. Even Nowhere Man is trippy.

I agree with you that Psych. Rock is more about the combo of lyrics and music, hence why PS may be better described as a precursor. I disagree on RS being psychedelic tho. To me, it's textbook, Dylan-esque Folk Rock.

[drbeachboy]

I think you forgot a few fads and circumstances they also exploited?/used to their advantage in the earlier hitmaking part of their career.

Such as?

Car culture, motorbikes, skateboarding, Santa Claus, and Psychedelia would be my examples.

They didn't write any songs about psychedelia as far as I know. But you are sort of correct about car culture, in a way although the car song has pretty much always been a more of an ongoing topic of American pop music rather than a fad. I also wouldn't call Santa Claus a fad.

Pet Sounds is considered the first (or at least, the precursor to) psychedelic rock album. SMiLE is about as psychedelic rock/pop as you get.

Pet Sounds is not about psychedelia, as say Little Deuce Coupe is about a car or cars. Also, I find Lennon's songs on Rubber Soul are more psychedelic than anything on Pet Sounds and it was 1/2 year or so earlier.

Hang onto your Ego/I Know There's an Answer is about tripping. The backing tracks of PS are very complex and evocative which foreshadowed the psychedelic wall of sound in 1967. What's psychedelic about RS?

To me Psychedelia is more the music or both music and lyrics, but not just lyrics. Hell, you can write lyrics about tripping and set it to a Waltz if you wanted. As for Rubber Soul, Think For Yourself, The Word and Girl all sound more psychedelic anything on Pet Sounds. Even Nowhere Man is trippy.

I agree with you that Psych. Rock is more about the combo of lyrics and music, hence why PS may be better described as a precursor. I disagree on RS being psychedelic tho. To me, it's textbook, Dylan-esque Folk Rock.

True to a point, but the Beatles stuff was electric and John's spacey singing makes them sound like he was trippin' when he wrote them. Growing up with this music in the 60's, I always considered it psychedelia.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I think you forgot a few fads and circumstances they also exploited?/used to their advantage in the earlier hitmaking part of their career.

Such as?

Car culture, motorbikes, skateboarding, Santa Claus, and Psychedelia would be my examples.

They didn't write any songs about psychedelia as far as I know. But you are sort of correct about car culture, in a way although the car song has pretty much always been a more of an ongoing topic of American pop music rather than a fad. I also wouldn't call Santa Claus a fad.

Pet Sounds is considered the first (or at least, the precursor to) psychedelic rock album. SMiLE is about as psychedelic rock/pop as you get.

Pet Sounds is not about psychedelia, as say Little Deuce Coupe is about a car or cars. Also, I find Lennon's songs on Rubber Soul are more psychedelic than anything on Pet Sounds and it was 1/2 year or so earlier.

Hang onto your Ego/I Know There's an Answer is about tripping. The backing tracks of PS are very complex and evocative which foreshadowed the psychedelic wall of sound in 1967. What's psychedelic about RS?

To me Psychedelia is more the music or both music and lyrics, but not just lyrics. Hell, you can write lyrics about tripping and set it to a Waltz if you wanted. As for Rubber Soul, Think For Yourself, The Word and Girl all sound more psychedelic anything on Pet Sounds. Even Nowhere Man is trippy.

I agree with you that Psych. Rock is more about the combo of lyrics and music, hence why PS may be better described as a precursor. I disagree on RS being psychedelic tho. To me, it's textbook, Dylan-esque Folk Rock.

True to a point, but the Beatles stuff was electric and John's spacey singing makes them sound like he was trippin' when he wrote them. Growing up with this music in the 60's, I always considered it psychedelia.

Fair enough. And I'll concede Nowhere Man's lyrics wouldn't sound out of place on say, a Syd-era Pink Floyd track, so I can see your point.

[Lonely Summer]

I don't hear any of Rubber Soul as psycadelic; that would happen a year later on Revolver - Love You To; She Said, She Said; Tomorrow Never Knows.

[Bicyclerider]

After the endless summer LPs success and the touring act became more oldies - which I have to think was due to  Mikes influence - I have to wonder if there was tension between Mike and Carl.  Carl was the bandleader but the band wasn't rehearsing to his satisfaction, one of the reasons he left.  So who was deciding they didn't need rehearsals?   He must have been outvoted by Al and Mike.  He only came back under the conditions that there would be rehearsals, correct?

[Foster's Freeze]

Has anyone asked this guy about Carl and Mike's relationship?  I think he would have a pretty good idea.

[drbeachboy]

After the endless summer LPs success and the touring act became more oldies - which I have to think was due to  Mikes influence - I have to wonder if there was tension between Mike and Carl.  Carl was the bandleader but the band wasn't rehearsing to his satisfaction, one of the reasons he left.  So who was deciding they didn't need rehearsals?   He must have been outvoted by Al and Mike.  He only came back under the conditions that there would be rehearsals, correct?

To answer part one of your question, I think the fans made the decision for them. Mike & Al went with the flow, whereas Carl & Dennis wanted to try and move beyond it, at least in the studio. We all know that Mike is pretty much of the "give the fans what they want" type attitude. You are correct about the condition to come back. Believe me, some of the shows that I saw from 1977-1979 were really sloppy. Carl was the only one who could sing on key through the whole show. Thank god Carl made that a condition when he came back.

[Cam Mott]

After the endless summer LPs success and the touring act became more oldies - which I have to think was due to  Mikes influence - I have to wonder if there was tension between Mike and Carl.  Carl was the bandleader but the band wasn't rehearsing to his satisfaction, one of the reasons he left.  So who was deciding they didn't need rehearsals?   He must have been outvoted by Al and Mike.  He only came back under the conditions that there would be rehearsals, correct?

To answer part one of your question, I think the fans made the decision for them. Mike & Al went with the flow, whereas Carl & Dennis wanted to try and move beyond it, at least in the studio. We all know that Mike is pretty much of the "give the fans what they want" type attitude. You are correct about the condition to come back. Believe me, some of the shows that I saw from 1977-1979 were really sloppy. Carl was the only one who could sing on key through the whole show. Thank god Carl made that a condition when he came back.

Would Carl have been talking more about those who play instruments when he said practice?

[drbeachboy]

After the endless summer LPs success and the touring act became more oldies - which I have to think was due to  Mikes influence - I have to wonder if there was tension between Mike and Carl.  Carl was the bandleader but the band wasn't rehearsing to his satisfaction, one of the reasons he left.  So who was deciding they didn't need rehearsals?   He must have been outvoted by Al and Mike.  He only came back under the conditions that there would be rehearsals, correct?

To answer part one of your question, I think the fans made the decision for them. Mike & Al went with the flow, whereas Carl & Dennis wanted to try and move beyond it, at least in the studio. We all know that Mike is pretty much of the "give the fans what they want" type attitude. You are correct about the condition to come back. Believe me, some of the shows that I saw from 1977-1979 were really sloppy. Carl was the only one who could sing on key through the whole show. Thank god Carl made that a condition when he came back.

Would Carl have been talking more about those who play instruments when he said practice?

Most likely, but singing in the Beach Boys is probably just as important. I don't recall any bad shows musically, maybe a miss here and there, but I saw quite a few shows where the leads were shakey and the background vocals were flat-out off key.

[Foster's Freeze]

I wonder if Carl gave any though to jotting down "his story" while he was sick.  Unfortunately he left us too soon and had way too many answers to our questions!