Many Negative Reviews of No Pier Pressure...

[Mikie]

It seems as though some posters are twisting themselves into knots to discredit negative reviews.

They sure are! 

[Paul J B]

  I am not too impressed with the album. I like about half of it and love only one song...... On the Island.
On the Island has a little of that old quirky Brian. ( love the whistling)
 C'mon Brian..... give is one more album and make it all bossa nova. I'm all in with that. 

Glad someone else loves it. It also harkens touches of Diamond Head and Busy Doing Nothing. It really does. There is way more going on in this than meets the casual listen.

On The Island is not some "horrid" tune as one so called critic claimed. The guy could have said "not my thing" or "I don't relate to that kind of music" or something as such but to expect someone to be taken seriously as a person that KNOWS MUSIC and to refer to a catchy creative tune by a woman with a very timeless voice like that proves the value of a critics.

I'm actually enjoying most of the tunes with guest vocalists more than the Brian only stuff. I think it has a lot to do with NOT sounding like it could have fit on Imagination or TWGMTR. We already have those. I think Brian and his gang hit a home run by welcoming new material and voices.

[Micha]

NPP sure seems to be the most polarizing BW related album since Love You. The other day a well known radio show host, who did a rave review of TLOS back then, seemed rather baffled by NPP's songwriting that he found too slick, having obviously expected something else. He played the opening track which he likes and actually finds too short, then the Zooey and Isham collabs and ended with L&N which he preised.

Then today, I read a rave review which ended with "This is a must!"

I personally don't get it. Brian's been more hands on involved than in many many years.  Best singing in over 40 years,  easily.

There you go, I think he sang much better on TLOS and better on TWGMTR too. You won't find two two agreeing on everything about NPP.

The agenda continues...

Look who's talking about agendas here!

[Larry Franz]

Wow -- if you sort that Metacritic list of albums released in the last 90 days, which is hundreds of albums, NPP is 9th from the bottom. That seems a bit cold. But maybe we'll eventually see a backlash and reconsideration of the "classic" (make that classic) that so many people didn't appreciate at first!  

[Debbie Keil-Leavitt]

I don't spend much time here these days because the consistent, and often contrived nastiness toward Brian and his work is downright toxic.  I don't find it anywhere else like this place.

This is demonstrably false. Beach Boy-related forums, social media, and product pages are probably the only places you'll find more than slight praise for the new album, since they are predictably filled with people who savor anything with Brian Wilson's name on it. The reception from most other critics is totally in line with whatever I've seen people say about the album elsewhere on the web.

I'm curious to see what reviews people are speaking of that are 'critical for the sake of being critical', or are written as clickbait. On this board, most of the negative feedback on this album amounts to 'I don't see much special about the album'; most of the positive feedback is 'This is the best album since Smile!'. The terse, or highly-vocal negative reviews are a minority here, but a majority elsewhere, since nobody wants to bother getting flamed for having a dissenting opinion among those who are very devoted to The Current Product by Our Favorite Artist. (There is also the added factor that people who were involved in the album's making are reading these posts, awkwardly).

I’m afraid a reply to your post would go on and on for pages listing all the insistently negative posts from a fairly consistent group of people.  However, it’s easy to just click on a name on this Board to read the string of latest posts and see a distinct pattern.
 
Anyone here can do this obviously, and it’s almost entertaining in an obnoxious sort of way.  Just watch when a poster won’t be swayed by the facts.  Sometimes it’s someone who is insisting on “autotunafish” being present on a song, even when another poster has actually spoken to the person in charge of the mix and production who provides the actual techniques used.
 
Yesterday had a great example on the Conan show thread.  There was a video where Brian could clearly be seen playing the piano and was easily heard among the vocals, yet the person refused to drop the argument that Brian wasn’t singing or playing.  Just check the series of posts from some of these folks, and you’ll see what some of us are talking about here.

This doesn’t apply to regular posters here who don’t find this, or other recordings to their liking.  Why would I, or anyone else even care?  But the relentless bunch who keep repeating the same garbage over and over make it pretty obvious that they have some sort of issue that they are driving here. 

Hi Debbie! I assume you are THE Debbie Keil, and it's so cool to me that you post here. Everything you wrote above is fair, but don't you think it's a waste of your time to engage with trolls who are posting simply to get a reaction out of you?

I agree totally that engaging with people who are trying to bait us online is a waste.  There are a few people here whom I completely ignore, and others whom I most generally ignore.  Life is much easier that way.  I simply didn't like the tone this thread took implying that people were somehow conspiracy theorists who saw a hand-full of people here as agenda-driven when it comes to attacking anything and everything Brian.  I rather like that they fight back and point out what ought to be obvious.  It is needed sometimes to actually brings some balance.  I mean, for heaven's sake, read the title of this thread and it becomes obvious that these few people have given a skewed view of how NPP has been received.

[HeyJude]

I’m not sure I feel this is the “most polarizing” album since “Love You.” It just seems more like people are just grappling with how to review the thing, how to express opinions, how to interpret or accept others’ opinions or reviews, and when and when not to assume anyone has an “agenda.”

I’m still fascinated by how often negative stated opinions (much moreso than positive) are so immediately reduced to some sort of agenda/bias/ulterior motive.

Yes, as we keep saying, there are a few folks who we know are going to feel a certain way about something, and they will indeed pop up and offer exactly what we expected. But I don’t think that’s running rampant here on the board. There are a few people who will turn a conversation about the brand of bass Bob Lizik uses into an anti-Mike Love diatribe. There are also those who will automatically defend Mike Love no matter how much of an a**hat he comes across in some random interview. But few take these extremes.

When we start dragging non-fan reviews into this discussion of “agendas” and “perceptions” and whatnot, it gets infinitely even more murky. I’ve read negative reviews that I disagree with. I’ve read some I agree with. I’ve read some whose underlying premise I agree with, but whom I also feel arrived at that conclusion in a totally unwarranted, unreasonable fashion.

Mediocre or poor reviews of BB-related product of all sorts is nothing new.

Ultimately, how many times on this board has someone convinced someone else to change how they feel, in the moment, about an album? Sure, months or years later we may re-evaluate our feelings, sometimes substantially (I dig McCartney’s “Press to Play” a LOT more than I used to). But we sometimes try too hard to seemingly try to change someone else’s opinion. When that fails, we start getting people questioning the motives of others. I find motives behind opinions VERY fascinating. But it’s all speculation. Everybody has an opinionated, subjective side. But relatively few, in my opinion, are truly able to be substantially objective at the same time. People who write for a living are sometimes better about shifting gears into an objective mindset, an objective “literary voice” when writing a review.

Also, muddying the waters is the fact that, in my opinion, many folks find it far easier to write (or say) negative things about something than positive. I have myself found that I sometimes have more specific, detailed observations to make about, say, a bad movie, than a great movie. Maybe that’s why far more people go to “Yelp” to complain than to praise.

But you gotta just deal with it. You have to truly accept and live with the fact that an album YOU think is an effing MASTERPIECE is a piece of crap in the eyes of somebody else, and that somebody else *might* be as learned, knowledgeable, and thoughtful as you are.

[sea of tunes]

He played the opening track which he likes and actually finds too short

Probably not the first time it has been mentioned but I had a thought the other day while listening to "This Beautiful Day" again.  It kind of reminds me (not melody wise) of something like "Meant For You" from Friends.  I mean it's like "don't end, don't end!!" and it ends.

Anybody....Bueller...?

[ArchStanton]

I don't spend much time here these days because the consistent, and often contrived nastiness toward Brian and his work is downright toxic.  I don't find it anywhere else like this place.

This is demonstrably false. Beach Boy-related forums, social media, and product pages are probably the only places you'll find more than slight praise for the new album, since they are predictably filled with people who savor anything with Brian Wilson's name on it. The reception from most other critics is totally in line with whatever I've seen people say about the album elsewhere on the web.

I'm curious to see what reviews people are speaking of that are 'critical for the sake of being critical', or are written as clickbait. On this board, most of the negative feedback on this album amounts to 'I don't see much special about the album'; most of the positive feedback is 'This is the best album since Smile!'. The terse, or highly-vocal negative reviews are a minority here, but a majority elsewhere, since nobody wants to bother getting flamed for having a dissenting opinion among those who are very devoted to The Current Product by Our Favorite Artist. (There is also the added factor that people who were involved in the album's making are reading these posts, awkwardly).

I disagree, many of the positive and mixed reviews on the board have gone through track-by-track with their feelings, along with a handful of negative ones.

[Mike's Beard]

I agree totally that engaging with people who are trying to bait us online is a waste.  There are a few people here whom I completely ignore, and others whom I most generally ignore.  Life is much easier that way.  I simply didn't like the tone this thread took implying that people were somehow conspiracy theorists who saw a hand-full of people here as agenda-driven when it comes to attacking anything and everything Brian.  

 

I’m not sure I feel this is the “most polarizing” album since “Love You.” It just seems more like people are just grappling with how to review the thing, how to express opinions, how to interpret or accept others’ opinions or reviews, and when and when not to assume anyone has an “agenda.”

 

I’m still fascinated by how often negative stated opinions (much moreso than positive) are so immediately reduced to some sort of agenda/bias/ulterior motive.

 

When we start dragging non-fan reviews into this discussion of “agendas” and “perceptions” and whatnot, it gets infinitely even more murky. I’ve read negative reviews that I disagree with. I’ve read some I agree with.

 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Odd, is it not, that less than three days after the album's release we're debating the reviews and not the music. What a strange bunch of people we are...

[Wirestone]

Odd, is it not, that less than three days after the album's release we're debating the reviews and not the music. What a strange bunch of people we are...

Well, if folks can talk about autotune, what else is there to debate? 

[Jason Penick]

I find the reviews coming in from the usual journalistic suspects to be predictable in their muted enthusiasm. It's par for the course with Brian's solo career. I can't recall too many professional reviews (at least not written by mouthbreathers) of any of his solo albums that were overly effusive in their praise or criticism. To me, it seems like many reviewers out there just aren't tuned into same vibe we as fans are. They hear the album and wonder what the big deal is. Clearly it's a highly professional effort featuring great vocals and solid instrumentation, but it's just not their cup of tea, and they fail to see what the big deal is with this Brian Wilson guy.

So it goes. Brian, and the Beach Boys writ large, are lifestyle music. This is not a criticism. What I mean by that is, you really have to be in a particular mindset or mode to really be receptive of where they're coming from. I know this is generalizing things, but I feel their music appeals to those who have an optimistic worldview, are comfortable doing some soul searching, are trying to get in touch with their emotions, who enjoy good times and nature, and most especially aren't afraid of music that's sincere and wears its heart on its sleeve. If you're a post-ironic hipster or hardcore doom metal devotee then the music of the Beach Boys is probably going to fly right by you, and that's fine-- which is a long-winded way of saying why I don't put much credence in most mainstream music reviews.

The in-fighting between the various factions of fandom is more problematic, but it's always been this way in Beach Boys world. Try ignoring it. It's a beautiful, sunny day here in northern California. I'm in my room with the door to the porch open, listening to No Pier Pressure and loving every note.

[Nicko1234]

I'll repeat, I don't think NPP has predominantly negative reviews- there just seems to be a real desire to post links to the negative ones here.  And other artists DO get a lot of negative reviews.  I don't even understand your question.

Sorry but this is palpably nonsense. Pretty much every media review for the album has probably been posted on this board up to now. That includes many glowing reviews, many negative ones and, even more so, plenty that take the middle ground. They are absolutely reflective as shown by the same mix of reviews appearing on the album`s Wikipedia page and on the metacritic page.

And on another thread you actually described as `wonderful` a review from a fan who admitted he hadn`t even heard the album yet. Isn`t it a bit rich to praise people for reviewing an album without listening to it and yet criticize journalists for supposedly copying their opinions from smileysmile??? (As reviews on this board have generally been more positive than media reviews that doesn`t even make sense anyway)

[HeyJude]

Odd, is it not, that less than three days after the album's release we're debating the reviews and not the music. What a strange bunch of people we are...

Debating the reviews actually makes even less sense than debating each others' opinions on the album. Nobody can even decide on what rating constitutes a "good" review. Is 6.5 out of 10 a good review? We're debating whether more good or bad reviews are being posted, but we have no measure of what a "good" or "bad" review is. As some others have pointed out, a review can "read" positive and then you'll see a 2.5 or 3 out of 5 or "C" grade or something. Another review will have a lot of positive and very negative stuff, and then it might still give the album a "B" or something.

[Wirestone]

I'll repeat, I don't think NPP has predominantly negative reviews- there just seems to be a real desire to post links to the negative ones here.  And other artists DO get a lot of negative reviews.  I don't even understand your question.

Sorry but this is palpably nonsense. Pretty much every media review for the album has probably been posted on this board up to now. That includes many glowing reviews, many negative ones and, even more so, plenty that take the middle ground. They are absolutely reflective as shown by the same mix of reviews appearing on the album`s Wikipedia page and on the metacritic page.

And on another thread you actually described as `wonderful` a review from a fan who admitted he hadn`t even heard the album yet. Isn`t it a bit rich to praise people for reviewing an album without listening to it and yet criticize journalists for supposedly copying their opinions from smileysmile??? (As reviews on this board have generally been more positive than media reviews that doesn`t even make sense anyway)

Nicko, you didn't seem interested in posting positive reviews of the album until you were called on it.

You're part of the problem. Debbie is part of the solution.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Well I've listened to the album in full at least five times (probably more than that), I think it's just wonderful.  I think critics just tend to hold Brian to too high a standard, they'll think an album as good as this is average because it's not another Pet Sounds or Smile which is unfair.  But what critics think shouldn't be relevant to us.  We're big fans so we're going to listen anyways and form our own opinion, and we'll tell our friends that it's worth listening to.  And to them, our word is better than a critic's.

[Nicko1234]

Nicko, you didn't seem interested in posting positive reviews of the album until you were called on it.

You're part of the problem. Debbie is part of the solution.

There are positive reviews in the very first post of that thread.

And the reason there weren`t more is simply because others had started threads for individual reviews which tended to be the most positive ones. Every single review since then, positive or negative, has been posted.

There is no problem. That is simply in the minds of people who expected unanimous 4 and 5 star reviews and didn`t want to see any that didn`t tally with their own opinion.

[Mikie]

Nicko, you didn't seem interested in posting positive reviews of the album until you were called on it. You're part of the problem. Debbie is part of the solution.

HUH??

[Wirestone]

Yes, it was so important to gather up all the pans, wasn't it?

But some folks can just go back to the first page of this thread and see how it went down.

Awful thoughtful to start a thread of the bad reviews! I can see your grin from here.

[SMiLE Brian]

Exactly, well said wirestone!

[Cam Mott]

Anybody can start a review thread of their own as far as I know. If you think any reviews are worth starting a thread for.... which I don't.

[Mikie]

There is no problem. That is simply in the minds of people who expected unanimous 4 and 5 star reviews and didn`t want to see any that didn`t tally with their own opinion.

Exactly.  This thread is about not so good reviews on NPP, right?  Don't have to go far to find them.  Here's a couple:

Fred:
"Such a disappointment…"

John:
"While it great to know Brian is working on and releasing new material….it’s a shame to say this album is probably one of his career’s low points. Yes, there are some highlights, but it’s more an album as “Brian Wilson as Guest Vocalist” (on is OWN album) than, an album of collaberations with other singers. Most of these songs seem like incomplete ideas and most will find with the slick production and use of tunafish etc (by Joe Thomas), the album lacks the quirkiness and creativity most true Brian Wilson fans expect from him. This is not to say Brian (and Company) shouldn’t try new things, but it is to say this mellow smooth jazz sound (which most of these tracks sound like) isn’t really an ideal direction for Brian to take. He’s obviously just going along with what others think is the “right” direction for him to follow. (He won’t argue..it’s too much trouble for him). And it’s clear to many, those choosing this direction, have little if any idea, how to really tap into Brian’s true creativity. Many of these songs lack this and for the direction this album takes the effort falls quite short. As someone said to me, “It’s like hearing Sade sing “Smooth Operator” sideways. After a while, it’s annoying.” I think this says it all".

Jim:
"For heaven’s sake, what’s with the friggin woodblock in almost every friggin track? Joe Thomas enters the studio and says “that was great but I coulda used a little more wood block”.

Joe:
"Unfortunately the new tracks are only making a mediocre album worse – the “Summer means new love” with lyrics as “Somewhere Quiet” is a plain insult.
But there is a diamond also in there: the recording of “In the Back of My Mind” with just piano and voice is very heartfelt and warm. Best track on the album!"



* Edited because there were too many negative reviews. I don't like them either, but I read them. We're hard core Brian Wilson fans (some Brianistas) and we're also very partial. But ALL opinions are welcome. It's a free country. You take bad with the good. Music is subjective and mileage may vary between listeners. In fact opinions may widely vary; educated, non-educated, hard core music listener, casual music listener, rock/pop listener, Country music listener........you get my drift? Who's right and who's wrong? Different strokes (and tastes) for different folks. To each their own. I love P.O.B. and Love You and Livin' With A Heatache and others don't!! I don't understand why, but I move on! No skin off my butt! Are we writing reviews here to promote No Pier Pressure or just writing what we really feel no matter the repercussions and wrath of other posters? Not me! I tell it like it is, baby! Take it or leave it! I don't need no stinkin' badges!

[Autotune]

We're very close to the subject, being fans, thus opinions will be more polarized here than anywhere else. There's periodic criticism to every BB, including BW, here. It's always been like that and it'll always be so. Sometimes said cricitism can be hurtful to some readers, which is understandable. But then what? What's the big deal with it? In which way does the
fact that an anonymous fan under a silly nickname backslashes a track or an album affect your enjoyment of it?

I embraced the new album in a way that I did not expect. But I'm aware there's plenty in it enough to cause controversy among fans, such as there is in every album of every artist. The passage of time will allow us some perspective and probably within a year we'll have less heated and more mature conversations about it. But seriously: is there a release that is devoid of controversy for us? Why should there be one? Or how?

I think it's time for some people to stop feeling attacked when others criticise NPP or bring unflattering reviews. There's plenty of praise for the album on this board; you can cling to it while enjoying its music.



By the way, THIS is a bad review.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2004/jun/11/popandrock.shopping6

[ForHerCryingSoul]

This thread is about not so good reviews on NPP, right?

Not exactly...  I posed a few questions at the beginning of this thread.  I am worried that BW will lose album sales and become unhappy because of the bad press.  The exact questions I proposed was, "Is this a case of defamation?  Are people worried Wilson is being controlled?  Is there something wrong with the album?  [...] the negative press on it worries me that the album will not sell well due to word of mouth.  What are your thoughts on this unusual publicity?

Didn't mean to start a thread that is rapidly sinking like the Titanic...

I hope the album sells well, I really do.  I get the feeling that if it doesn't, we might just see the man retire.  It might be best for him, I don't know.  I'm just getting this awkward feeling about the whole album release and the press that is going along with it.

[GhostyTMRS]

This thread is about not so good reviews on NPP, right?

Not exactly...  I posed a few questions at the beginning of this thread.  I am worried that BW will lose album sales and become unhappy because of the bad press.  The exact questions I proposed was, "Is this a case of defamation?  Are people worried Wilson is being controlled?  Is there something wrong with the album?  [...] the negative press on it worries me that the album will not sell well due to word of mouth.  What are your thoughts on this unusual publicity?

Didn't mean to start a thread that is rapidly sinking like the Titanic...

I hope the album sells well, I really do.  I get the feeling that if it doesn't, we might just see the man retire.  It might be best for him, I don't know.  I'm just getting this awkward feeling about the whole album release and the press that is going along with it.

I wouldn't. I doubt these negative reviews will have any impact on the album at all, and as others have pointed out there aren't THAT many bad reviews. Most of the ones I've seen in the press have been either positive or mixed.

I wouldn't recommend anyone participating in the "agenda" drinking game. You'd die of alcohol poisoning in one sitting with all the message board McCarthyism that goes on around here. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW8xfJ5T_4U