The Smiley Smile Message Board

I'll answer the question. You want answers?

Let’s start with a look at what has transpired over the last few months or so and then get to the current business at hand. It has been quite an enlightening summer, sitting back and reading the unrelenting trashing of Brian Wilson from the same small group of zealots over several different internet sites, starting here at SmileySmile, and including the Mike and Bruce fan site Beach Boys (sorry to say) Britain, Endless Summer Quarterly and even Facebook.

Just in the last few days it has been a week of remarkable hypocrisy of the highest level here on SmileySmile, as well as some new attempted history rewrite, the ridiculously absurd assertion that Kokomo was a stand alone success without the movie Cocktail. Notably, but not limited to, extremist Mike Love fanboy extraordinary, Mikesbeard, who is one of the louder voices of the agenda, droning incessantly negatively on anything related to one Brian Wilson and then denying that fact while calling Wilson’s supporters “fanboys”. His associate therealbeachboy, a guy who used to be a moderator on SS until he let it slip how he really felt about fans who had the gall to criticize Stamos, calling Brian supporters “sociopaths” or some such drivel. Sheriffjohnstone and the Ayatollah of Kokomo, Cam Mott, defenders of anything Love are the standout wankers in a sea of anti Wilson wankery.  Then, they state unequivocally that they have no agenda, no hate for Brian Wilson.  

Let’s have a look at the evidence, shall we? Wade deeply into the history of all their posts on SmileySmile. Have a look at the evidence for yourselves, dive in headfirst and browse the posting histories of these favoured posters, mikesbeard, realbeachboy, sheriffjohnstone. Watch the story unfold page by page if you accept the challenge.

Now you see mikesbeard and the lot of them in their own right. Judge these hypocrites from what they have said and continue to say. It was also seen on SmileySmile that it did not take long for mikesbeard to restart attacking poster Debbie KL. Sounds like he and a few of his compatriots, like Nicko123456, a guy who has been kicked off almost every Beach Boys/Brian Wilson related website yet has still been writing on Beach Boys Britain, have a serious "woman problem". They attack Debbie KL, they attack Ang Jones, and her sister. I note they never attack filledeplage as she is endlessly and relentlessly promoting the touring band from gig to gig on the east coast of the United States. No coincidence. Something must be terribly wrong with the water up there in Great Yarmouth as well the City of Salford. Consider this Facebook post from one of those named above:  "Brian's band. Fanboys with guitars." No agenda there? As for the rest, it is no coincidence that they all show up en masse to clog up those threads when called out with the facts or to try and denigrate anything associated with Brian Wilson.

Beach Boys Britain? Nothing more than the “go to” website for the Mike and Bruce fan base. Don’t deny it, embrace it for what it is. This is an obvious fact to anyone rational. Who really wrote the post suggesting UK fans take legal action against Brian Wilson and his management team for the postponement of the UK tour?

Endless Summer Quarterly - real simple. Mr Beard has lost all his credibility as a neutral journalist. What he writes now turns into a hit piece on Brian Wilson that develops into a genuflection in the direction of Mike Love. Why do you think that is?

Now listen up. You need to get this through your collective heads, all of you. The touring band is not The Beach Boys. If you think it is, dream on. Mike Love pays to license the name from BRI, he does not own the name and he is not the lone representative of The Beach Boys and their music. One either rents or owns, and Mike pays rent.  If you truly believe that band (which is quite capable) is The Beach Boys then you never experienced or do not understand the real Beach Boys circa 1964 to, say, 1977 (and I would include the C50 configuration), or you require extensive psychiatric care and there is very little hope for you as you are a zealot blinded by your own twisted ideology.

No matter how much gobshit is thrown at you on the Beach Boys Britain Mike and Bruce fansite, telling you Pisces Brothers is a crowd favourite (no, it is sh*t) and the audiences are in awe (no, they are bored), or that Stamos is important in the history of The Beach Boys (he is a pimple on the ass of The Beach Boys), or that there is nothing wrong with Summer in Paradise  the worst record ever made by anybody), the facts remain set in stone: with Carl and Dennis gone, no Brian, no Al and no Blondie = not the Beach Boys.  That is the truth, and if you cannot accept this simple fact then you can’t handle the truth.

Hell yes Jessup, this small group of Mike Love fanboys are really a pain. They will do anything nasty to defend this nasal clown of a man.

I think this post does a brilliant job of exposing much that is wrong with this board. It's like a mirror…





You got the Stamos bit right though… :(

It's remarkable how much people care about this. It really speaks volumes for what the music means to us all.

But I don't know of any other fan base SO extremely divided. So divided to the point that someone like myself that appreciates both "sides" is not really accepted by either for that sole purpose alone.

On a live stage (and a live stage ONLY) I think those most crucial to creating a live Beach Boys experience should be considered on the following scale of importance

1. Mike Love- He is what the world thinks of when they think Beach Boys on stage, whether we like it or not.
2. Brian Wilson- He is what most of us dream of when we think Beach Boys on stage. To the general public, they clearly don't care. Why else would M&B sell out at venues that Brian does not sell out?
3. Al Jardine- He is the secret weapon of legitimacy. Not because of his name, or his duration in the band, but because of that amazingly well kept voice of his.
4. David Marks- He's the odd one. I truthfully cannot tell if David wants to participate with any touring band fulltime. I think it means more to us than it does to him.
5. Bruce Johnston- Let's face it...Bruce is kind of the original faceless Beach Boy. His swap on the live scene in '65 and his sticking with the band is largely responsible for why Brian Wilson is number two on this list.

So right now, The Beach Boys have the most and least important living members in the band, according to my scale...while Brian's band maintains #2 and #3. So what's the answer? There isn't much time. If you love the music, see and hear who you can while you can because we can all agree on one thing:

It cannot get any better.

Hi all,

When people start taking things too seriously they should take a break.  I feel bad when Ang and Debbie are attacked.  I have found out that if anyone staunchly defneds Brian, Mike or any of the fans one dislikes they get reprimanded.  Each BB has his faults.  Every fan has something they don't like about themselves.  Yet to hvae it broadcasted isn't right.  I know that we are all entitled to our opinions and are able to post freely.  Yet one should watch what they say/type and how they say/type it.  Earlier this year on The Talk the topic was conversations.  Carnie was a Guest Co-Host that day.  She said it isn't just waht you say it is also how you say it.  I always make sure that I watch The Talk when she is on.  I have received lots of help from her.  

I hope that all of you have a fun filled weekend!!!    

I burst out laughing at the "Ayatollah of Kokomo" title for Cam. Well stated, sir  :lol

The original poster's account is banned indefinitely due to personal attacks in the post.

Dang:/ maybe calling people out personally wasn't the best idea, but I do see his point

I refuse to get drawn in to the argument properly but I think it can be seen both ways. Sure, there are those on here who love Mike, defend him, dislike Brian but equally there are people who hate everything if it isn't Brian and his band. A good BB live video will get far less praise than a good Brian video. Sometimes unfairly. I've seen both bands in recent years and felt far more 'involved' in the music at the BB gig than the Brian gig. I think because it was far more interactive. Back to my point though, I see posts from both sides of the argument and they are both as loud as each other. Sometimes they make stupid posts but as members of this board they are entitled to have their favourites.

You are right, with no Brian or Al there is no 'Beach Boys' but for me as soon as Carl died the band could never really exist anymore.  Yes Brian was the mastermind and the founder but it was Carl who kept the band going. That being said, BOTH bands do a very good job at keeping the fans happy and to say either one of them are sub-standard in any way is just plain rubbish and insulting I think.

I struggle to comprehend how we not only tear into members of our favourite band on a personal basis but also rip apart each other in even worse terms. The original post was pretty appalling … but I don't see an end in sight.

He pointed at you, didn't he.

Well said

John, I agree, as part of the Beach Boys 'blew it, blew it consistently' mentality, I don't think this bickering will ever end! It's a great shame as we all joined here to talk about the band we love so much, not make personal attacks on band members or posters. It's easy for people to make personal attacks on people behind a computer screen, which is so wrong.

Ontor, yes he did....!

Personal attacks, really?  I read some name calling/describing what some folks do, in his opinion, but I didn't sense real attacks

Nothing worse than what other posters dish out at each other all the time, at least.

I totally agree with Nathan. It was a great post but it's only a matter of time before this thread disappears.

EDIT: Reading it again, maybe calling out specific posters was definitely wrong but there are some really good points he made. Unfortunately, he took the low road and possibly offended some people.

Jessup won the board today! 8)

And won a one way ticket out of this place to boot!! :)

I think the reason you see the vociferousness of these attacks is because of how much people really care. Somewhere along the line this band struck a deep chord with us and we all think of the Beach Boys as our own and nobody better f*** with 'em. Lest of all another fan. I'm absolutely sure that many people on this board care more about this than Brian or Mike do.

I think Mike likes to tour and be his own boss of his own band. And Brian likes to create beautiful music and be left alone but tours because it keeps him healthy and motivated. Once upon a time, both these needs were satisfied by The Beach Boys. Now...for one group it's an asset and the other it's an annoyance. And each fan falls somewhere in between the two camps. The difference is, each actual camp has at least a begrudging respect for the other...except a lot of the fans more towards their one preferred side who make it personal or take their fanboy/apologism to absurd levels.

Somewhere in the middle are people like CenturyDeprived who are just raising the legitimate truth: Brian's f***ed up but we forgive him because he's suffered more than enough to atone for any sins he's committed and comes off like a chill guy in interviews. Mike f***ed up and most don't forgive him because he has never to our knowledge apologized or admitted any regret and continues to put his foot in his mouth. But even stating that simple observation is considered an attack by the guys in his camp. That's the issue. That's why people like OP are so fed up. And it's not even a situation where both sides are at fault. It's one where the one side digs its own grave and we are haters for politely trying to point it out.

LOL at this thread.  My only contribution is a reminder that good psychiatric help is out there and available to anyone honest enough to recognize he/she has a problem.

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

 ;D

We're all special! ;)

Haha! Cheers for the shoutout Nathan. So I 'drone incessantly negatively on anything related to one Brian Wilson' and that I 'state unequivocally that I have no agenda, no hate for Brian Wilson'? My agenda is simple - if I like music I buy it, if I don't then I won't. Don't confuse what I may think about a section of d*ckhead fans with my views on the big man himself. Go back and read my posts - all 3968 of them and you'll see that you can count on both hands all my 'anti Brian' talk and still have fingers to spare.
PS, thinking somebody's album is rubbish does not count.
PPS, don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

All of that baloney in one OP and all for a permaban. Survival of the smartest. OP's view is myopic as hell and beyond exaggerated.

I've thought about this. During the January 1969 sessions for what would have been the Get Back album John Lennon told George Harrison "I'm loathe to play any of your songs" to his face. The songs George was trying to demo to the group include future classics like "All Things Must Pass" and "Isn't it a Pity". Lennon also couldn't be bothered to play on George's songs during this period. These incidents are discussed among Beatles fans and most agree in hindsight that John was in the wrong...but I never see fans actively harp on these incidents (and there are plenty more like them in the Beatles history). Usually the attitude is "Well, what do you want? They've known each other since they were kids and they were just young guys in their 20's, and it's not like they hated each other".

In Beach Boys fandom, there's a certain segment who just fixate on similar issues. I tend to have the Beatle fan approach to it which is "So what? They were basically kids. What group doesn't argue or not see to eye to eye. Big deal." I think there tends to be this perception of Brian that he was just so fragile that any negativity hurled his way caused him to whither on the vine. That doesn't seem to be supported by what we hear on most of the session material. He seems pretty in command to me. All of the guys are giving him crap and he gives it right back. But even going back to the garage tapes bootleg, the Beach Boys talk to each other like high school athletes in a locker room, Brian included. Is it any wonder? They basically were.  

Here's one thing that makes threads continue on and on, and what is so blatantly a cause of friction... when a poster makes a legit point, asks a question of another poster (in the context of an ongoing, back-and-forth "debate" or discussion), and the other poster just drops out of sight and refuses to acknowledge a point has been made, or refuses to say anything in response because they know they are going to come off like they are grasping at straws. They are so afraid to say something critical of one band member that they just think avoiding replying is a quick fix to that conundrum, when in reality it's plainly obvious to the vast majority of people that they have been outed as having faulty logic on the discussion at hand. Why else would someone stop replying to a polite query? I'm not talking about someone being too busy to reply and leaving the board for awhile, either.

And then some people jump to the defense saying "so-and-so poster doesn't have to reply to anything they don't want to", as though that smoke and mirrors approach holds any water whatsoever. If some people could just admit that there's at least *some* legitimacy to another poster's logic (as I have certainly done many times to people with largely different overall viewpoints to myself), there'd be a whole lot less arguing. It's extremism, plain and simple, and it should be labeled as nothing but.

Examples of posters running for the hills in the middle of a discussion within a thread:


Tumbleweeds blow by...


Tumbleweeds blow by yet again. To admit there's a point that has been made is like pulling teeth, and I simply do not know why. A poster simply "not wanting" to reply is simply a nonsense reason for this. The real reason is that to take on the extreme viewpoints that some individuals have means that HAVE to deny certain truths.

I respond to any query put towards me. If I do stop answering, it will be because I've finally reached the point where I can't bear to think about Mike Love or Brian Wilson one second longer.

Hey Mikesbeard...."here's to swimming with bow legged women"  :beer

"these wealthy college kids don't have the education to admit when they're wrong"  ;D

Fair point. But again, the difference is this is still ungoing. If it were just bitching about SMiLE or something, I'd agree it's over and done, let it go. But when Mike needlessly mentions Brian's drug abuse in EVERY interview, as well as taking various other pot-shots at him, it shows this is an ungoing problem and worth mentioning. It's not like the Beatles were everything is mostly cool or at least tactful between members and all problems are in the past. Brian is either purposefully being the bigger man and turning the other cheek or is shielded from Mike's abrasive comments. In any case, his non-reaction is not indicitive of approval I don't think. And it doesn't excuse Mike.

We haven't seen a rant like this since the R&R Hall of Fame in 88! :lol

:lol

But who was the OP anyway? Three posts in as many months yet apparently a fan since the early days? Current or former board member using a fresh ID to stir sh*t is my bet…

Not to bring it back to The Beatles again, but recently McCartney gave an interview where he went off on his "I was just as important as John" speech. He was defending himself against attacks that surely must've come from his own imagination. Okay, Yoko lobs a bomb at him once in a while, but I hang around a LOT of Beatle-ish places on the web and I don't see this overwhelming negativity that Paul keeps grousing about (alright...there's some, but not much). There's a good chance he may not even be aware of how petty this makes him look. Pete Townsend even called him out on it, but he keeps doing it.

So basically, when it comes to Mike or Paul or "insert-your-rock-star" here, who knows what kind of information they're being fed or how they perceive things? I just choose to focus on the very best in these guys. I might be accused of being a pollyanna but so be it. Brian and Mike are generally pretty positive about each other. That's good enough for me.

And Andy Doe (in the Bob Dylan role) says ""I want to thank Nathan R. Jessup for not mentioning me".

But that doesn't really hold any water for posters who clearly can continue to think, post, and debate about all things Mike and Brian  in the same exact thread, but simply duck out on a particular question aimed at them which they don't "like".

What possible reason for repeatedly dodging a question can there be but that the dodgers know they are in a position where they can't defend what they're saying, but they have some allergic reaction to admitting the other "side" has even a tiny bit of a point? Don't you admit that this is often because the person is grasping at straws?  

You would have to ask them. Maybe they tire of arguing the same old BS. How often do we get to discuss the music these days on here?

As often as you like. Start a thread and talk about the music. There's no one stopping you. I've no idea why you continually visit threads that you don't like and make comments.  Personally I think it would be quite one dimensional if all that we talked about was the music.

I'm surprised you don't bitch more often about how often Mike keeps bringing up the same old things but for some reason you want to continue to bitch about posters bringing up the same old things. Strange.

EoL

That would be me. When I get tired I just give up. I think they call it "Beating a Dead Horse" syndrome. Whenever I get to that point I announce it so folks know there will be no more replies from me on the subject.

I don't get it, you get tired of what? CD stated that questions are continually being dodged. Do you mean you're getting tired of dodging questions? Seriously, this is just another case of dodging.   Now people are dodging about dodging.

EoL

For me, the posters are just plain more annoying than reading what Mike says. We tend not to give it a rest. We go on, stay on it, until someone gets pissed off and flies off the handle. I hate getting in pissing matches where nothing we say does anything to change the outcome. I'm on a mission to try an stay mellow in here. I don't need my blood pressure any higher than it already is. ;)

I get tired of debating.

 :rock :rock  Strange indeed. Great reply EOL!!   :thumbsup

He had me at "gobshit".

Set up a live chat. Nominate the top 10 posters and have them compete in the Beach Boys music trivia challenge.  :afro 

People aren't tired of debating; they are dodging SPECIFIC questions, but gladly continuing in debating and spouting their views about all other sorts of very related and interconnected topics. Let's just admit that dodging questions on this board is a thing. It exists. It happens, right? And for some reason it almost always happens in a conversation where someone promoting a "pro" Mike viewpoint feels it's difficult to respond to a specific question or two.

It's this dodging that's at the heart of some (certainly not all) of the difficulties that people have when reconciling the various factions within the group itself.

The truth hurts sometimes. You can't make the truth not hurt by dodging questions.

It's quite lame. If anyone were ever watching some sort of debate about a topic, if a person debating just tried to change the subject or scurried away, it would be ridiculous.

What a horribly divisive thread... I agree with the Mods' decision to ban this troll for his obvious attempt at sh*t-stirring.

(http://social.bioware.com/uploads_user/1574000/1573780/35689.jpg)

 I think you simply need to get over Cam; move on, let it go. you're never going to be happy with his answers/no answers.  Just ignore him/ don't read his posts.

   I skip posts by all the time from people I'm tired of reading for whatever reason. I wouldn't be surprised if  there are people who skip mine, and it certainly wouldn't bother me. 

I was only speaking for myself. Before I came here I never took Mike's side on anything, but being a Beach Boys fan first and foremost, I hate to see any of the guys getting trashed like they do in here. Every member of the band had a role to play in their successes and their failures. While I don't mind discussing their history and their personalities, I'll be damned if I'm going to come here and argue with people about stuff that happened that cannot be changed. The best posts out of this whole exercise was getting Debbie's & Stephen's perspective about what was happening, as they were around and personally knew Brian and the guys. I learned more and received a better perspective from their comments then from all the arguing and carrying on. I honestly feel blessed that I have the music of the Beach Boys in my life. It has literally been a part of my every day living since 1964. It supplies me with joy and peace. I wish discussing them in here did the same thing.

The Fall 2015 edition of Endless Summer Quarterly:
•  Brian Wilson cover
•  FEATURE 1: Brian Wilson - No Pier Pressure
•  FEATURE 2: Brian Wilson - I Just Wasn't Made For These Times
•  FEATURE 3: Brian Wilson - Adult Child

It's late here and I wanted to fix myself a "midnight snack." So I know we have a few nacho chips and I know we have some sour cream in the fridge. So I put a bunch of sour cream in a bowl (it's a courtesy, there's other people in the house and I like to double dip, so I'm not going to go directly into the container). Problem is, I misjudged how many nacho chips were left as I've been doing the same thing for the last few nights. So now, I got this empty bag of nacho chips, and maybe half of my sour cream left, which I can't really put back into the container.

So, at the moment, that's what's wrong with this Beach Boys fan.

 :lol

I'll be buying this one!

John shitting on George's songs did nor alter their history in the way the  accusations laid against Mike altered BB history.
Are us pro-Brian people really as unreasonable as we are being accused of?

A fine post DrBB. Much the same here (only 1976).

Is it as strange as people who visit a band's msg board everyday just to spout about how much they dislike a certain bandmember? I feel no need to join a Justin Beiber or One Direction board just so I can continually let others know how much I despise them.
I enjoy discussing other aspects of the band besides the music but when it comes to Mike it all becomes rather pointless. Nobody is ever going to convince the other that they are wrong, it just turns into an exercise in who can shout the loudest. A whole bunch of conjecture, wildly differing historical recollections and viewpoints being held up as evidence and this strange knack of people determined to hold Mike accountable to something, ANYTHING!
I actually do have an idea for a music based thread but feel it would be overlooked in the current climate so have not bothered.

I recognise this too. I've been reluctant to post in some threads simply because I'm pretty sure the thread will soon deteriorate into something snide, personal, offensive and derailed.

Pray tell, how did the "accusations" (read: facts) against Mike alter history?

Sigh…

Just my opinion...

The reason the Beach Boys fans fight so much stems back to Brian's illness.

Brian was the sh*t, I mean, he was the MAN, an unbelievably gifted, articulate, beautiful, talented, genius-level musician making stuff the world had never seen before.  

From where we sit now, we can all see that.... and then in the mid 60's, his illness took over, and ruined the entire thing.  Drugs and family problems were part of it, but generally it was the illness, and mental illness is very unfair.  

It's f***ed up , and unfair that mental illness took Brian from us at his peak and left us with a damaged Brian who still had flashes of his brilliance, but for most of the time appears to be unhappy, withdrawn, and even in pain at times.

There's nothing fair about that, we all hate it, and so people lash out and do crazy sh*t and say crazy sh*t because of the emotion involved in all of that, which is at the very core of the band.  To understand and love the band, you ultimately have to realize that Brian stopped being full-on, bad-ass, genius son-of-God Brian in the 60's and the whole thing pisses us all off.


In the bible, there's this section where they're talking about what burning in hell is going to be like, and it makes sure to mention that from Hell, you can see Heaven.... which permanently reminds you of what you're missing out on.... which is what makes Hell Hell.  



So people that really love the band, and really get into it, are living, in that regard, in a personal hell on one level, because we can all see what Brian once was, and we all see him from time to time do that 'thing' that he was so good at... but we have to accept that he'll never be the same.  

I personally think that's the reason there's so much turmoil between the fans.  Just my opinion.  

Is that aimed at me, sir? I merely asked a simple question

Very eloquent. I just think Brian led them to a certain point but once he lost his way, his followers disagreed on where to go next. One faction clung to the beach and nostalgia as in keeping best with what he started, the other sought to continue his growth in artistry and production techniques. A great schism of Brianism, if you will. And Carl got bitter and withdrawn when his interpretation was seemingly invalidated and now Mike's gotten defensive and ornery because his interpretation brings no respect. There was just something unique about Brian, especially in the 60s, where he could push boundaries while still appealing to the masses. The first time he doubted himself--SMiLE--he lost his read on the pulse of the public and neither he nor they truly found it again. They did for some of us here and there but never all of us at the same time Again. And this disagreement with what made that music so indespensible is what defines Beach Boys fans.

@Ron and Mujan.....your latest contributions nail it. Anyone wondering about BW or The BB can see it in your writings. Thank you. It really clarifies things. Sometimes, the SS pages can make for gruelling reading, when all I want is more info on Brian or BB releases or tours.  But these summarise the whole thing.

Oddly, once I'd stopped wetting myself laughing at the original post, and the inevitable ovine chorus of approval, that was exactly my thought, and I'm not entirely sure if I should be relieved or deeply offended at this omission. Think I'll settle for bemused indifference.

Of course, there's always the possibility that I was trolling under one of my many flags of convenience and clean forgot about it... but I think not. If I'd written such a poorly conceived, badly worded and jerry-built diatribe, I'd be deeply ashamed of myself. We seem to be having something of a spate of such trolls. Entirely unnecessary, we have more than enough as it is.

Or perhaps OP was one of those "paid trolls" that some folks wax conspiracy theory about on here...

Almost seems like the fans of this band are as crazy as the band itself. All this over The Beach Boys. ain't that something

Ron , I think that was an excellent post that raised some important points.In my own opinion I think it's the nature of the internet that people will say things on a message board that they would never say to some ones face . To me there is a real cowardly aspect to the whole thing

What? You mean people on the internet are little more than keyboard warriors wielding their good old AK-QWERTY7s? Next you're probably going to tell me that I can't gain wealth by sending chain emails to five of my friends!

Agreed. And I also think this is how certain people use the media as well.

Thank you for illustrating my point

Ron - while there is a lot you say that is correct, one of the biggest problems, as I see it, is that some posters aren't using the proper timely lens.  Second, they conveniently ignore, that judgments about the eras prior to Brian's bona fide diagnosis and treatment, had occurred well prior to that which was  set into motion by Melinda.  People had little, poor, or no understanding and treatment about such issues.  Read the desperation of hiring (and putting faith in a charlatan such as Landy.) And before the wonders of neuroscience.

The lack of information about addiction was just as bad.  And people, tend to be judgmental about what others should have done.  Everyone did their best.  It isn't good enough for some people. It was 1965.  Not 2015. And it is largely an inappropriate topic for public discussion.  I find it voyeuristic. That is Brian's personal business and not fodder for discussion on a forum dedicated to music discussion.  And this is not the Smile board but the Smiley Smile board. Smiley Smile was a creation of The Beach Boys.

Should a group of business partners, who, as a part of the business, get a say on business and creative matters? You bet. It is their job. One incorporates to work "collectively" to arrive at a business product for a business purpose, and one that gets a "veil of protection" from certain liabilities.  And, the corporation has to gauge what will make a profit.  Mr. Desper said something about the creativity and artistry getting converted to the business end.

That Trumpian diatribe cracked me up.  Trump is right about a lot of stuff.  This has zero to with "picking on the women" and everything to do with coming to the table with the facts. "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." (That includes men.)

Some posters don't want to assess blame to the record company (who are probably on good terms "now") and to support that, I found direct quotes relating to the music industry working AGAINST the band.  And interviews on YouTube.  Quotes from Brian, Mike and Bruce with regard Capitol falsely representing them as a surf band, when they had taken a 180 degree turn.  

And YouTube interviews from Paris, with Mike, Carl and Dennis reflecting on the same issue that they were being stereotyped by the record company. A French issue of Smiley has a photo of them in grey suits with Brian, Dennis, Carl, Al and Mike, circa 1964.  It was their job, to fairly represent the image and work that the band wanted and not perpetuate a myth and false narrative about the band.  The tail was wagging the dog.  

So what is the truth here? The truth is assessing each era through a fair lens, that is related in time.  It isn't judging 1965 from 2015.

And, Nate, just to refresh your memory, I post on most shows I see, regardless of who is on stage.  Check the BBB out. One exception is the recent fantastic Brian show I saw, with Al and Blondie.  The BBB was very upset about the cancellation of the UK Brian tour. It was an electric and exciting show, which I wanted to share. Out of respect for the fact that they would not see Brian as expected, did I decide to not write on BBB.  BBB has a lovely group of both BB/BW fans who respect one another and who are generous to allow other non-UK members.  

Some here, could learn about respect from them.

Great weekend all!  :thewilsons

;D

I think "what's wrong with Beach Boys fans" is since we are dealing with a largely defunct group, sometimes there is not much else to do but backbite and nitpick on each other.  Also I do think it is kinda lame to blame most of Brian's problems on Mike, just as it would be lame to blame Mike's problems on Brian.  I don't personally think that Smile was going to be some harbinger of a new creative upswing for Brian, post-Smile.  I think, with Smile, he had pretty much taken his sound to the limit, experimentation-wise.  I think Smile would have been somewhat successful chart-wise, but that their path and fate was largely sealed just by the changing times in music.

But the music done after Pet Sounds through Holland by this group was mostly fantastic and sorely under-rated.  In that sense, while I enjoy listening to the Smile Sessions, I never do it with the sense of we were deprived of further great music because it was not released in its time.  Because we weren't.

I don't really know why there is such harshness between Beach Boys fans.  Doesn't seem to exemplify the Love and Mercy wishes of one Brian Wilson.

There's a little bit of a Brian/ Mike (and the rest of the band) personality in everybody. It comes out  to raise some hell occasionally just like it does for the Beach Boys themselves.

I think they would have done what all the big groups that trh ansitioned into psychedelia did and went back to the basics. Something like Wild Honey probably, but I like to believe they still would have done a Smiley Smile type album first as a real counterpoint to what they had just done, and what everyone else was doing. I think the difference is, had SMiLE come out, they would have been able to do what they did with their reputation still intact and been a smother transition between the Brian years and collaborative ones. Also...I think it's likely SMiLE would be considered the best album of the rock era, not Pepper, so that would serve to keep their prestige going into the future.

This is almost as good as Mike's RRHOF speech! ;)

Mike is not the greatest. :o

Maybe he meant Michael Corleone or Mike Myers...Or Michael Jordan?

Or Michael who is rowing the boat to shore

I just find it amusing that Beach Boys fans think they are the only ones that bicker so passionately and endlessly.  I find it happens among fans of almost every group. The same kind of divides happen among fans of Paul Revere and the Raiders - Mark Lindsay fans think he was the Brian of the group, and the others were just hired hands, didn't play on the records, etc. Mark fans hate Paul, Paul fans hate Mark. Creedence? Same kind of divide - the John Fogerty supporters see Stu Cook and Doug Clifford as guys who just got lucky coasting on John's talent; CCRevisited fans see Fogerty as a bitter, hateful man. And don't get me started on Kinks and Beatles fans. BB fans, you are not alone.

Don't forget Pink Floyd fans. You want factions? The pro-Waters and pro-Gilmour crowds butt heads like you wouldn't believe.

I still say the Barrett Era is best era. I love their latter stuff too, but as good as Dark Side of the Moon is, I'll pick Piper at the Gates of Dawn any day. Just something about how Syd so effortlessly blended childhood whimsical fantasy with foreboding psychedelic freak out really hits me. Piper is what almost every other psychedelic rock album tries to be but doesn't quite match. And it breaks my heart to think what else Syd might have done. His solo albums and unreleased Floyd songs are amazing too, if only they had better, fuller production.

I like Mike.  I like Joel too.

Been saying this for decades, as any of my long-term friends will attest, that for whatever arcane reason, some fans feel the need to emulate the band right down to the dumbass arguments.

I think it happens amongst 'fans' of other bands/artists. We think we have some deep connection with them; we think we know what they would do and how they would react; we're selective when it comes to evidence - even evidence staring you in face; we dismiss the comments of people who 'were there' (Daro, anybody?) because they don't fit our narrative, whatever that might be; but we are also at the mercy of people who were involved who revise their views or who have played up their own personal disagreements/differences with some of the principals. And then some of us just like to be contrary and get that buzz from seeing our names all over message boards ranting about the same fucking thing, say after day, thread after thread. Some of us even start thread to do this, knowing damn fine it'll enrage Mr Knacker and keep the wound open. As I said elsewhere, Mike wrote The Warmth of the Sun (and many other songs - yeah, Mike and a line here and a line there...); he sang on some of the BB's best music, as did Bruce. FFS, Bruce sang on God Only Knows. It doesn't get better than that. Yes, Mike's been a twat at times and the 80s was a pretty embarrassing time for the band, but you know what, these guys ain't going to be around for much longer, so celebrate the good stuff he did (there's plenty of it) and do what I do - ignore the dross and the BS and the hopeless revisionism AND if you get the chance to see them, go, because it's worth it.

Don't forget "See Emily Play"!!!  :3d

I hate Ray Davies. He treated his brother Dave like crap. Barely ever let him get a song on an album, demeaned his guitar playing, insulted him regularly on stage ("on guitar, Mr. Dave 'Death of a Clown' Davis"), Ray is a prick. Great songwriter, showman, better guitar player than he let's on, but absolutely insufferable as a person.

The Kinks made the Beach Boys look like The Waltons by comparison.

What about Kinks fans ?

Kinks fans are divided - some think Ray walks on water, and that Dave should be thankful he got to play on all those songs Ray wrote; many of us are more sympathetic to the long suffering younger brother, although, to be fair, he can be just as difficult as Ray at times. Actually, if I was gonna hang out with one of the guys for day, I think it would be Mick Avory. Solid, non flashy drummer overshadowed by the flamboyant front men. I used to play drums along with their records, really admired his style. And seems like a down to earth sort that would be easy to talk to.

Does this still go on? 

I used to go on a few PF sites in the late 90s, but haven't in a long time.  Of course, back then, Rick was still alive and The Division Bell was only a few years old, so there was still hope that Pink Floyd would carry on in some form.  I think Rick Wright's death put a stop to that. 

Personally, I'm a fan of all eras of Floyd, but unfortunately, they ceased to exist by the time I got into them (1996). 

 8)

Van Halen fans can give BB, Kinks, and Floyd fans a run for their money. 

The Dave / Sammy debate rages on and on and on.  The one thing they all agree on - nobody liked the Gary Cherone version (I think it stunk, and I'm a fan of Extreme).