Bruce Johnston - The Re-evaluation and Appreciation Discussion

[Jim V.]

Remember how he went all "i'm still 18" on us in that That's why God made the Radio teaser reel that they released just before the album came out?  There's a video of him siging falsetto in part of it.  He sounds great on stuff like "Spring Vacation" too.  I believe the word somebody used above was "coasting" and that's true.  When you've got dozens of songs to sing that fans love, I guess some people (Bruce) just figure hell why try to top it, why try to do anything new when everybody already loves all this stuff and we can't sing it all in concert anyways?

Well, as a musician with about eight fans, as compared to Bruce's likely thousands of fans, I know that I make music because I love doing it. And I'd assume a guy like him would do it because he loves it too. And I also think that, yeah whoopty-doo, he's got "dozens of songs to sing that fans love," but interesting ZERO of those are his. Just like the guy at the cover band at the bar down the street. He's got dozens of songs to sing that fans love too, but I'd bet that guy would feel more fulfilled if they were singing HIS songs rather than Nickelback's. And please, let's not kid ourselves that most of the hicks that are going to the Bumfuck County Fair have any interest in hearing "Disney Girls," or even have any clue what "Disney Girls" is. In fact if they were asked about the album that it appeared on (Surf's Up) they'd probably guess it was a 1963 album or a hits album. And on top of that, of the songs that they play live at the Mike n' Bruce "Beach Boys" gigs, probably about five of them even have him on them. So for Bruce not to do new music because he is basically a musician covering music he wasn't originally involved with is kinda a shitty excuse.

But yeah, he sounds great on "Spring Vacation" and the falsetto from "Bill & Sue."

[CenturyDeprived]

Does anyone know any info about Bruce's childhood? I know he was adopted at a young age, but have the details surrounding that ever been discussed by Bruce? I imagine it's a sensitive topic, so maybe lots of this has never been made public.

[Ron]

Remember how he went all "i'm still 18" on us in that That's why God made the Radio teaser reel that they released just before the album came out?  There's a video of him siging falsetto in part of it.  He sounds great on stuff like "Spring Vacation" too.  I believe the word somebody used above was "coasting" and that's true.  When you've got dozens of songs to sing that fans love, I guess some people (Bruce) just figure hell why try to top it, why try to do anything new when everybody already loves all this stuff and we can't sing it all in concert anyways?

Well, as a musician with about eight fans, as compared to Bruce's likely thousands of fans, I know that I make music because I love doing it. And I'd assume a guy like him would do it because he loves it too. And I also think that, yeah whoopty-doo, he's got "dozens of songs to sing that fans love," but interesting ZERO of those are his. Just like the guy at the cover band at the bar down the street. He's got dozens of songs to sing that fans love too, but I'd bet that guy would feel more fulfilled if they were singing HIS songs rather than Nickelback's. And please, let's not kid ourselves that most of the hicks that are going to the Bumfuck County Fair have any interest in hearing "Disney Girls," or even have any clue what "Disney Girls" is. In fact if they were asked about the album that it appeared on (Surf's Up) they'd probably guess it was a 1963 album or a hits album. And on top of that, of the songs that they play live at the Mike n' Bruce "Beach Boys" gigs, probably about five of them even have him on them. So for Bruce not to do new music because he is basically a musician covering music he wasn't originally involved with is kinda a shitty excuse.

But yeah, he sounds great on "Spring Vacation" and the falsetto from "Bill & Sue."

You're right... your way of doing music is more noble than Bruce's. 

[KittyKat]

Bruce grew up in Beverly Hills and was adopted by a family with ties to the Rexall drug chain, which was all over the United States decades ago. Suffice to say his childhood was financially comfortable. How happy, he's never said.

[guitarfool2002]

Just adding to that bio info, Bruce was adopted in Chicago where his adoptive father was an executive with the Walgreens drugstore chain, then the family moved to the Beverly Hills area when his adoptive father took a job with Rexall. From one source he actually took over as president of Rexall.

More to add to the discussion, but consider the way fate and time and everything else came together to put all of these musicians together at just the right time to create the scene that they did, the scene which turned into one of the biggest teen and pop music scenes of all time coming from one area and from a comparatively small group of young musicians. Bruce being adopted and moving from Chicago to CA, Terry's jazz musician father leaving him and his mother and severing contact, Doris remarrying and ending up in CA, Phil Spector having one of the biggest long-shot and fluke national smash hit records of all time with a girl named Annette Kleinbard, scoring an apprenticeship under Leiber and Stoller, then returning to LA to take the orchestral techniques he observed from Leiber and Stoller and creating his "Wall", Jan Berry and Dean Torrance connecting, then Dean leaves for the military, Jan records with Arnie, they also have an indie fluke hit record, Dean returns...and they make even bigger hit records, Kim Fowley, Sandy Nelson records a demo with Bruce that becomes another nationwide fluke hit record...

It's all pretty amazing. Consider how many kids (and that's basically what they were in the late 50's) today or even in the past 30 years have done anything close to what this group of teenagers did and cracked the record business independent of the usual system in place in the 50's and had hit records, not only that but created a scene, with what amounted to the kind of bands that exist all over the US in high schools, basements, garages, etc. Pretty amazing, as I said in the first post.

And consider too what a wealth of information a guy like Bruce could be should he ever be persuaded to put pen to paper and document these teenage years in the music business, when he knew Spector as this fellow student musician playing guitar in his bedroom with his friends:

[SMiLE Brian]

Great early picture of Phil. he really looks like a starry eyed kid, not the tycoon of teen.


PS.- He looked best with his flattop, not his wigs.

[Nicko1234]

Bruce did say a few years ago that he was planning to write a book about his time in the music business. I expect it to be published on the same day that his non-solo solo album is released...

[guitarfool2002]

It gets even more fascinating for those into the bigger history of pop music to trace what happened to these musicians in the decades after they hit the charts as teenagers. Take just one example, and the connections get pretty interesting considering how they crossed paths years later.

Annette Kleinbard, the singer on "To Know Him Is To Love Him" by the Teddy Bears, the voice that inspired Spector to write that song:



Notice another shot of teenage Phil.  

So Annette sang lead on that record, it was a major hit, then she changed her name to Carol Connors. Elvis Presley was so taken by that record that he asked his people to contact her, and they met when he returned from the Army, then had something of a relationship according to some sources.

Then Annette/Carol wrote a song called "Hey Little Cobra", which went to a group called the Rip Chords, but the record was actually Bruce Johnston and Terry Melcher singing leads and harmonies (which Melcher had to lie about to Columbia because he and Bruce apparently were not allowed to be 'artists' on this record they were hired to produce, or something).

So another connection from that core group of Hollywood classmates and friends came about 5 years later as Bruce and Terry's voices piloted a hit record written by one of the late 50's gang onto the charts.

And just over ten years later, Annette/Carol had another co-writing credit on a song everybody with a pulse has heard, one of the most memorable film soundtrack songs in history: "Gonna Fly Now", aka the theme from "Rocky".

Connections like this are all over the place when you get into the history and details, and again it's fascinating stuff for those interested, all coming from a small group of Hollywood teenagers in the late 50's.

[Foster's Freeze]

I respect Bruce's pre BB career but anytime I see him now all I can think of is that he's the Paul Stanley to Mike Love's Gene Simmons.

Riding Mike's coattails in the unpopular cover version of the band, happy to let Mike run his mouth (ala Gene Simmons) taking the heat while silently (well, when not growling about politics) Bruce just says and does nothing but stand next to Mike in the photos.

If that sounds harsh, oh well, I'm just being honest with what I see.  Bruce had a interesting early career pre BB's and then just punched his ticket on the BB gravy train.  Bruce feels like an equal to Mike Kowalski.

Also, Mike Meros was a much better organ player than Bruce.

"Flame on, flame on flamers"

[guitarfool2002]

Does the definition of "riding coattails" include winning a Grammy in 1977 for Song Of The Year, which had nothing to do with the Beach Boys? 

[Andrew G. Doe]

A little list of Bruce's 45 output can be found here http://www.45cat.com/45_list_view_record.php?li=1384

Great List!  For me tho, it would be better if you could re-order them to run from earliest to most current; is that possible?  

Also, I can proviide you scans for some of the ones you don't have pictured, if you can crop them. I can't seem to find a program that lets me do just the circular labels ( which is why I haven't posted ANY pics on 45cat...)

Basic Bruce solo discog

Maybe... I should just close 10452 down: evidently no-one goes there any more.

[Cabinessenceking]

Bruce`s early career certainly shouldn`t be forgotten. A very talented guy and he did some great work with Terry Melcher.

Incidentally, The Vettes album Rev-up is on youtube in full.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk7lH4QecCQ

gosh that was like Beach Boys just far worse.

[bgas]

I respect Bruce's pre BB career but anytime I see him now all I can think of is that he's the Paul Stanley to Mike Love's Gene Simmons.

Riding Mike's coattails in the unpopular cover version of the band, happy to let Mike run his mouth (ala Gene Simmons) taking the heat while silently (well, when not growling about politics) Bruce just says and does nothing but stand next to Mike in the photos.

If that sounds harsh, oh well, I'm just being honest with what I see.  Bruce had a interesting early career pre BB's and then just punched his ticket on the BB gravy train.  Bruce feels like an equal to Mike Kowalski.

Also, Mike Meros was a much better organ player than Bruce.

"Flame on, flame on flamers"

Does the definition of "riding coattails" include winning a Grammy in 1977 for Song Of The Year, which had nothing to do with the Beach Boys?  

well gee whillikers beav! even I can see that NDD wrote >>anytime I see him now <<  so unless you're still living in the 70's, I don't see your point

[bgas]

A little list of Bruce's 45 output can be found here http://www.45cat.com/45_list_view_record.php?li=1384

Great List!  For me tho, it would be better if you could re-order them to run from earliest to most current; is that possible?  

Also, I can proviide you scans for some of the ones you don't have pictured, if you can crop them. I can't seem to find a program that lets me do just the circular labels ( which is why I haven't posted ANY pics on 45cat...)

Basic Bruce solo discog

Maybe... I should just close 10452 down: evidently no-one goes there any more.

nahh, don't get all het up; your site is easier to read the credits, but you're missing some of the listings on 45cat, and your pics of the labels arent near as clear

[Andrew G. Doe]

Does anyone know any info about Bruce's childhood? I know he was adopted at a young age, but have the details surrounding that ever been discussed by Bruce? I imagine it's a sensitive topic, so maybe lots of this has never been made public.

It's common knowledge that his real name is Benjamin Baldwin.

[Andrew G. Doe]

nahh, don't get all het up; your site is easier to read the credits, but you're missing some of the listings on 45cat, and your pics of the labels arent near as clear

That's because...

1 - I've stuck with the US (that is, canonical) discography...

2 - because there aren't any ?  

[guitarfool2002]

well gee whillikers beav! even I can see that NDD wrote >>anytime I see him now <<  so unless you're still living in the 70's, I don't see your point

"Ward, I think you're coming down too hard on the Beaver..." This is what I replied to:

Bruce had a interesting early career pre BB's and then just punched his ticket on the BB gravy train.

That's just inaccurate.

[bgas]

nahh, don't get all het up; your site is easier to read the credits, but you're missing some of the listings on 45cat, and your pics of the labels arent near as clear

That's because...

1 - I've stuck with the US (that is, canonical) discography...

2 - because there aren't any ?  

Yep!  As your site states:  >>The releases detailed below are only those featuring Bruce as a major vocal performer (his backing vocal and production credits are too many to detail here - maybe later...).  <<  
 and that's why dogear's listings at  45cat are more complete, as he includes writing and production credits, and of course, usually, the aforementioned label scans

Perhaps now that you have so much more time on your hands, you can get down to the real nitty gritty and do a site expansion!

[bgas]

well gee whillikers beav! even I can see that NDD wrote >>anytime I see him now <<  so unless you're still living in the 70's, I don't see your point

"Ward, I think you're coming down too hard on the Beaver..." This is what I replied to:

Bruce had a interesting early career pre BB's and then just punched his ticket on the BB gravy train.

That's just inaccurate.

"Beaver, what does that mean?"
 "I don't know, but whenever I say it, everybody leaves the room!"
IE; you specified "riding coattails" which preceded the "gravy train" line

[Foster's Freeze]

Does the definition of "riding coattails" include winning a Grammy in 1977 for Song Of The Year, which had nothing to do with the Beach Boys? 

Exactly.

It had nothing to do with the Beach Boys.

Bruce should be respected as a career musician I suppose but Blondie is more of a Beach Boy to me in terms of musicianship, songwriting and overall impact on the groups sound and catalog.  Bruce's songs sound like Bruce Johnston songs on Beach Boys albums, not Beach Boys songs.

When I look back over the last 40 years of me following the band, I'm missing that "BRUCE!" moment.  Like I said, Bruce is no different than Mike Kowalski.

[guitarfool2002]

I don't think Bruce's role in the Beach Boys was what I was thinking of when I wrote the original post, in fact Bruce's role as a band member seems to have been in flux since 1965 when he was asked to fill in for Brian after Glen left that position. So it's not really about that, at least for me, but rather trying to show a larger picture of what he had done musically especially before the Beach Boys were even a thought.

Consider Carl was probably in the 5th or 6th grade and watching Hopalong Cassidy and other wersterns on UHF television when Bruce was playing and recording with some of the same musicians who would later be hired to play on Brian's productions, those guys like Steve Douglas, and was with Jan Berry before Brian ever met him. It's just the nature of where Bruce grew up and the circle of friends he had who went on to become some of the most important musicians in the LA scene from the 60's onward.

I also think of Bruce in a role every winning baseball team has on their roster, that of the "utility man". It isn't a superstar player, it isn't that of a daily starter who is in the lineup every game, but there are those key players who come off the bench to pinch hit in key situations, or who fill in when the starters are out in a variety of positions. Every great team has them, and they are crucial when they're called on to play their role, the most obvious being the pinch hitters who sit on the bench most of the time yet deliver when needed.

When they needed Bruce to produce in the late 70's, he did what was asked. When he was needed to play or sing a backing vocal or do anything else in the studio, he did it.

So I don't really see an expectation there from either Bruce or the band where he was to play a more dominant role in shaping their sound or doing something beyond what he was asked to contribute. Was that ever to be part of the "deal" he had with or within the band's structure, any more than Glen Campbell played some live shows with them, left and was replaced by Bruce in the same role, then went back to doing his studio gigs and cutting solo records before hitting it big?

The fact that - as mentioned - Bruce found success and steady work unrelated to the Beach Boys before, during, and after the Beach Boys' career path in the 60's and 70's speaks to this bigger picture of his own musical career. Yet when he was called on or hired to do something for the band in some capacity, he did it.

Was there something he should have been doing that he didn't do in his role as a Beach Boy, or is that more a case of fans putting an expectation in place that was never there in the first place?

I guess I don't see the need to compare or contrast Bruce with Blondie or whoever else related to the BB's when that was never the issue of the conversation.

[Foster's Freeze]

I just want to say this - in hindsight I didn't mean to come into this thread and crap all over it so let me apologize for that.

I stand by what I say about Bruce and his role in the Beach Boys but that takes nothing from his contribution to the Southern California music scene in the early 1960's.  For me, separating the two is necessary and I agree that Bruce was a "player" in SoCal early on so credit is definitely due him for those contributions.

[metal flake paint]

A little list of Bruce's 45 output can be found here http://www.45cat.com/45_list_view_record.php?li=1384

I can't seem to find a program that lets me do just the circular labels ( which is why I haven't posted ANY pics on 45cat...)

Paint.NET does a good job:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFFzrpsdVOs

[bgas]

A little list of Bruce's 45 output can be found here http://www.45cat.com/45_list_view_record.php?li=1384

I can't seem to find a program that lets me do just the circular labels ( which is why I haven't posted ANY pics on 45cat...)

Paint.NET does a good job:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFFzrpsdVOs

Yes, Thanxx.  Unfortunately, and I don't know why, this won't download and open on my computer. I've tried several times in the past, and, just now. 
Maybe on the next one... 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I don't think Bruce's role in the Beach Boys was what I was thinking of when I wrote the original post, in fact Bruce's role as a band member seems to have been in flux since 1965 when he was asked to fill in for Brian after Glen left that position. So it's not really about that, at least for me, but rather trying to show a larger picture of what he had done musically especially before the Beach Boys were even a thought.

Consider Carl was probably in the 5th or 6th grade and watching Hopalong Cassidy and other wersterns on UHF television when Bruce was playing and recording with some of the same musicians who would later be hired to play on Brian's productions, those guys like Steve Douglas, and was with Jan Berry before Brian ever met him. It's just the nature of where Bruce grew up and the circle of friends he had who went on to become some of the most important musicians in the LA scene from the 60's onward.

I also think of Bruce in a role every winning baseball team has on their roster, that of the "utility man". It isn't a superstar player, it isn't that of a daily starter who is in the lineup every game, but there are those key players who come off the bench to pinch hit in key situations, or who fill in when the starters are out in a variety of positions. Every great team has them, and they are crucial when they're called on to play their role, the most obvious being the pinch hitters who sit on the bench most of the time yet deliver when needed.

When they needed Bruce to produce in the late 70's, he did what was asked. When he was needed to play or sing a backing vocal or do anything else in the studio, he did it.

So I don't really see an expectation there from either Bruce or the band where he was to play a more dominant role in shaping their sound or doing something beyond what he was asked to contribute. Was that ever to be part of the "deal" he had with or within the band's structure, any more than Glen Campbell played some live shows with them, left and was replaced by Bruce in the same role, then went back to doing his studio gigs and cutting solo records before hitting it big?

The fact that - as mentioned - Bruce found success and steady work unrelated to the Beach Boys before, during, and after the Beach Boys' career path in the 60's and 70's speaks to this bigger picture of his own musical career. Yet when he was called on or hired to do something for the band in some capacity, he did it.

Was there something he should have been doing that he didn't do in his role as a Beach Boy, or is that more a case of fans putting an expectation in place that was never there in the first place?

I guess I don't see the need to compare or contrast Bruce with Blondie or whoever else related to the BB's when that was never the issue of the conversation.

Great post. "Utility Men" in rock are often the backbones for which much functionality can be attributed.... Guys like Doug Yule, Bruce, George Harrison, etc ...... versatile players/singers who keep things solid and filled-in regardless if they ever get the spotlight.

Light Album being in my top 5 BB's albums, it's hard for me not to love Bruce...

He's damaged his own reputation, to a large extent, by allowing himself to be seem primarily as Mike's clapping, mic adjusting lackey.