Overrated BB's Related Songs

[The infamous Baldwin Organ]

"Let's Put Our Hearts Together." 

Is it due to the vocals or the tune itself?? I'll have much more respect for you if it's the latter 

You know, I honestly don't know!  The vocals are a factor for sure.  But it all just merges into a nightmare to me.  Though the chord progressions aren't horrible.

I also don't care for this song. I do love the Love You album though, so it's almost become a song I love to hate. 

[The Heartical Don]

"Let's Put Our Hearts Together." 

Is it due to the vocals or the tune itself?? I'll have much more respect for you if it's the latter 

You know, I honestly don't know!  The vocals are a factor for sure.  But it all just merges into a nightmare to me.  Though the chord progressions aren't horrible.

I also don't care for this song. I do love the Love You album though, so it's almost become a song I love to hate. 

I love it as it is... except... near the end, Brian sings a heartfelt '...let's put...', but the 'put' spirals down in pitch in an awkward manner... he really should have done another take. But then, with the exception of Good Time, it all was prolly done in one hasty take.

[buddhahat]

The one that stands out for me is smile vegetables - I always feel compelled to put it in smile mixes but if I'm honest, I really don't care for it that much, apart from the fade that sounds like it should belong with H&V. I much prefer Smiley vegetables.

[Steve Mayo]

Not to mention this guy's top ten:
http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/faves.html
I'm not making this up.

Somehow I expect one of our members on this board to respond to this... 

lol...i'm sure you are right.... 

[Sheriff John Stone]

"Let's Put Our Hearts Together." 

Is it due to the vocals or the tune itself?? I'll have much more respect for you if it's the latter 

You know, I honestly don't know!  The vocals are a factor for sure.  But it all just merges into a nightmare to me.  Though the chord progressions aren't horrible.

I also don't care for this song. I do love the Love You album though, so it's almost become a song I love to hate. 

I like the song; it's the peformance that is lacking. And yet, at the very end, when Brian sings, "Together you and I", he nails it.

[adamghost]

I'm thinking about the top 10 list and PET SOUNDS and I was musing that it's hard for us to admit there's a difference between something you like and something that's just substantively good.  It's kind of like people defining the center politically as wherever they happen to stand themselves, as opposed to a midpoint between two definable extremes.  Objectivity is a tough biotch, and it's definitely more so in today's environment.

So I would definitely say PET SOUNDS is, as objectively as you can be about something creative, the best Beach Boys album.  But it wouldn't be on top of my personal top 10.  I'm not even sure what mine would be...my tastes have changed so much.  I'm a pretty big Beach Boys fan but there was a time in my youth that -- I kid you not -- my favorite Beach Boys song was the disco version of "Here Comes The Night."  I'd never argue that it was one of their best tracks ever (though I think it's better than people give it credit for)...but I just liked it.  What can you do?

I'm trying to think of what I'd rank as my top 10 now.  LIGHT ALBUM and HOLLAND would still be close to the top, even though I objectively think, wow, there are a LOT of weak songs on those two albums.  But I just like the way they vibe and sound.  So again, what can you do?

[rogerlancelot]

Not to mention this guy's top ten:
http://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/faves.html
I'm not making this up.

Somehow I expect one of our members on this board to respond to this... 

lol...i'm sure you are right.... 

But that is the great thing about being a BB fan. Everybody sees it totally different (even two guys named Eric).

I'm forcing myself to make a top 10 now:
01) Pet Sounds
02) Sunflower
03) Smiley Smile
04) Love You
05) So Tough
06) Surf's Up
07) In Concert
08) Holland
09) 20/20
10) LA Light Album

I suppose that sort of conjecture really deserves it's own thread but I was simply illustrating my point.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

That would be my list exactly, subtracting LOVE YOU for KEEPING THE SUMMER ALIVE!

In Adam's words: "what can you do"? 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Oh, and replace SMILEY SMILE with SO TOUGH 

[rogerlancelot]

That would be my list exactly, subtracting LOVE YOU for KEEPING THE SUMMER ALIVE!

In Adam's words: "what can you do"? 

Interesting. KTSA does have a few good tracks and it is the only half of my two-fer that I'll play. Does anybody else have that issue with the later two-fers? I skip 15BO for Love You and skip MIU for LA. Curious to see how everybody else feels...

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I always mean to skip past MIU, but SHE'S GOT RHYTHM always catches me off guard, and then I skip over toward PITTER PATTER,  but always seem to accidentally land on PEGGY SUE and it always makes me smile. Then I wonder what Carl's up to, so I move on over to SWEET SUNDAY LOVE, then to PITTER PATTER: don't Al and Mike sound cool on that? After that, I just HAVE to listen to MY DIANE which always kills me. But then it's followed by MATCHPOINT, which I suppose I dislike, but then Brian just sounds so cool on it! Soooooo, once those detours are navigated, (avoiding WINDS OF CHANGE at all costs) I settle into LA in it's ENTIERTY and smile the whole way!  

[Wrightfan]

1. Most of Dennis Wilson's solo stuff. His "later voice" is awful.
2. Cuddle Up
3. Big Sur (Holland version)
4. Wind Chimes (Smiley Smile version)-Tag is good. Everything else? Horrible.
5. A Day in the Life of a Tree-It's OK but nowhere near the opus some people make it out to be.

[adamghost]

I think if I listed a top 10 in no particular order of quality, it would be, in reverse chronological order:

LIGHT ALBUM
IN CONCERT
HOLLAND
SURF'S UP
SUNFLOWER
20/20
WILD HONEY
PET SOUNDS
TODAY
SUMMER DAYS (AND SUMMER NIGHTS)

If PACIFIC OCEAN BLUE and SMILE were bonafide Beach Boys albums, they'd rank pretty high.  I probably listen to LOVE YOU and 15 BIG ONES more than anything lately, just because those are about the only two albums I haven't totally absorbed (or rejected, as is the case for the '90s stuff).

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I actually like 15 Big Ones quite a bit! I dunno, it sounds like they're having fun, just playing songs and singing. Even though, I guess they were having the furthest thing from fun. 

[Mike's Beard]

I'm thinking about the top 10 list and PET SOUNDS and I was musing that it's hard for us to admit there's a difference between something you like and something that's just substantively good. 

Totally agree with that statement.  I was trying to say something along those lines in my earlier post - could not find to right words to express myself clearly but you hit the nail on head.  HOWEVER my main gripe when I said PS was a tad overrated was that it's praise has overclouded other great works from the group to the point of obscurity.  When a group is more commonly known for an album they DIDN'T release as opposed to all the great ones they did then I think something is wrong.  Ask the average man on the street to name a BB's album and they will undoubtedly say "Pet Sounds".  Ask them to name 2 more and most will say "huh?".  Fair enough, most people are not Beach Boys nuts like we all are but still, The Beatles had good albums and weaker ones and yet even the most causal fan could probably name pretty much all of them.  Fleetwood Mac are generally known for one record yet the world at large are at least aware that they made other stuff.

P.S.  I consider LA Light very patchy but what songs on Holland do you consider weak?

[adamghost]

From HOLLAND, I'd classify "Steamboat" as weak, and a lot of the rest of it mediocre, though as I think of it, a lot of that has to do with the kind of static nature of the tracks...Ricky's (and Brian's) drums don't really drive the songs except in a few places.  "Funky Pretty", "Leaving This Town", "Only With You," most of "California Saga," all have a certain amount going for them but there are pretty serious flaws in each of them if you take a step back:  "Funky" has godawful lyrics and hardly any backbeat, "Leaving This Town" goes on forever without a lot of dynamic change, "Only With You" is a pretty song but it meanders forever and has less interesting changes than Dennis usually provides; "California Saga" is awkward in the first third, pretentious in the second, and hugely derivative in the third.  There's only two truly unassailable tracks on HOLLAND:  "Sail On Sailor" and "The Trader" (and perhaps "California").

If you look at L.A. (LIGHT), I'd argue that most of the songs on there actually stand up.  There may not be the level of inspiration and quirkiness on HOLLAND, but other than HCTN-disco there's not much consensus on which songs are the bad ones...even "Lady Lynda" and "Sumahama" have a lot of defenders.  L.A. has three stone classics in "Good Timin'", "Angel Come Home" and "Baby Blue", and I'd personally add "Love Surrounds Me" to that.

Don't get me wrong...I love both albums, but HOLLAND has a very particular vibe that, if I had to generalize, helps the album as a whole but hurts the individual songs.

[Mike's Beard]

The thing with Holland I find is that I can't just dip into it for the odd track like I can for so many BBs stuff.  When it goes on I have to hear pretty much all of it. I think out of all the 'Boys catalogue that and PS are the most 'album' releases they ever did in that many of the tracks work better as a collective whole than by themselves.
I find LA to be rather weak mainly 'cos it's for all intents missing 3 of the guys. Love him or loathe him (and plenty do both) a BBs record with only one Mike Love lead vocal doesn't feel like a BB's record. Mike and Al are to LA what Dennis and Carl were to M.I.U - mere guests on one or two songs.  I find Carl's songs here to be very lacking.  His efforts on KTSA are much better.  Denny's two are much better with "Baby Blue" standing out as a classic. Good Timin' is nice; nothing more. Lady Lynda is very underrated if a tad cheesy.  Think I'll avoid talking about the disco track, Doh!! Too late!!

[runnersdialzero]

From HOLLAND, I'd classify "Steamboat" as weak, and a lot of the rest of it mediocre, though as I think of it, a lot of that has to do with the kind of static nature of the tracks...Ricky's (and Brian's) drums don't really drive the songs except in a few places.  "Funky Pretty", "Leaving This Town", "Only With You," most of "California Saga," all have a certain amount going for them but there are pretty serious flaws in each of them if you take a step back:  "Funky" has godawful lyrics and hardly any backbeat, "Leaving This Town" goes on forever without a lot of dynamic change, "Only With You" is a pretty song but it meanders forever and has less interesting changes than Dennis usually provides; "California Saga" is awkward in the first third, pretentious in the second, and hugely derivative in the third.  There's only two truly unassailable tracks on HOLLAND:  "Sail On Sailor" and "The Trader" (and perhaps "California").

I always thought this song could have had about two minutes shorter. One verse too many and the ending seems to go on too long. Great, great song, but I wouldn't say it's perfect - that's just me.

"Sail on Sailor", I wouldn't call perfect, either. DASH TAHT'S JUST ME!!!!

[runnersdialzero]

Please don't crucify me but I do find (whisper)Pet Sounds to be a tad overrated.  Don't get me wrong it's fantastic and I've bought it 3 times in different versions but it gets soooooo much praise (particularly from otherwise non BB fans)  that it tends to diminish their other accomplishments to a degree.  I mean, I can guarantee about 50% of causal BBs fans and non fans would sum up their entire output as "silly surf songs which were good fun for their time, then one masterpiece LP and then a load of mediocre crap 'cos the main guy went loco". Does "PS" really overshadow "Today!!" that much?  Is it much better than "Sunflower"?  I personally don't think so.  I hope nobody thinks I'm pissing on hallowed ground here .  "Sloop John B" and "Wouldn't it be Nice" are the 2 songs that got me hooked on the Beach Boys and off that Nu - Metal crap I was listening to.  I would just like to see snobby music critics mention "Friends" , Sunflower" and the like in the same breath as they do PS.

Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you. Pet Sounds is absolutely brilliant, but Pet Sounds, a greatest hits album, and the very occasional BWPS is absolutely not the end all be all of the Beach Boys. Far from it.

[adamghost]

Well, not PERFECT...I wouldn't go THAT far.  I hear you on "Trader" though I personally like the long ending....though I will tell you having covered it, it is murder to keep it all straight.

BTW I was listening closely to "Sailor" on headphones for a Beach Boys cover gig and I marveled at how subtle and powerful the production is on that one.  The groove and the keyboards and the drums are just so....

[Nicko]

I agree that Holland, although it does have some excellent songs, still adds up to being more than a sum of its parts.

LA doesn't quite imo. I think that the disco track completely unbalances the album and Shortenin' Bread doesn't add that much as a closer. If those 2 tracks had been cut and It's a Beautiful Day included as the second song and Daybreak as the final number then I think it would hang together much better.

[Sheriff John Stone]

LA doesn't quite imo. I think that the disco track completely unbalances the album and Shortenin' Bread doesn't add that much as a closer. If those 2 tracks had been cut and It's a Beautiful Day included as the second song and Daybreak as the final number then I think it would hang together much better.

Agree. "Shortenin' Bread" is so mismatched for this mature, adult, "light" Beach Boys' album. Again, of all the Brian Wilson songs "in the can", they chose this one?

I wouldn't, however, cut "Here Comes The Night" entirely. While it was a bit too "late" to hit the disco craze, and it was bandwagon jumping, I think it's a vital track. How about if they would've put the single version on the album, or at least cut the 11 minute version in half.

[the captain]

In a rare SJS-and-Luther-agree moment, well, I agree. HCTN is really quality, despite its reputation. The problem for me is its inclusion in that ridiculous format (length). But the single version? sh*t, sure. Maybe not on the front end of the craze, but who cares? Crazes suck. It's cool. Really well done.

[adamghost]

In a rare SJS-and-Luther-agree moment, well, I agree. HCTN is really quality, despite its reputation. The problem for me is its inclusion in that ridiculous format (length). But the single version? merda, sure. Maybe not on the front end of the craze, but who cares? Crazes suck. It's cool. Really well done.

Yeah, I think the 11-minute version was a mistake in retrospect, and I suspect it had a lot to do with a dearth of new songs (and the songs they had being so short).  The single version is pretty friggin' kickass, though...one of the best Carl rock vocals ever.  I have really nice memories of playing Stratego to that song when I was about 13.  My gaming partner always insisted on having the long HCTN on...he thought it helped him play better!

"Shortenin' Bread" doesn't bother me but I do think that's a valid point about it not fitting in, and "It's a Beautiful Day" is pretty great, though I believe it was cut after L.A.  "California Feeling" SHOULD have worked, but I have heard the L.A. version and I see why they left it off.  It just sits there (and the 1978 version with Brian's vocal is a case study in amused disinterest).  I'm not familiar with "Daybreak," can someone enlighten me on this one?

[Nicko]

Daybreak, like Sumahama, was part of Mike's unreleased First Love album and is widely considered to be the best song I think it's fair to say.