Hawaiian chants in Roll Plymouth Rock?

[Sheriff John Stone]

Does anybody have a theory why there are Hawiian chants in Roll Plymouth Rock? I know, I'm missing something that's obvious, right? Any opinions are appreciated....

[grillo]

I always thought it was that whole pan-continental bicycle rider thing. Plymouth to Hawaii.

[Pretty Funky]

The lyric may help?

Waving from the ocean liner
The native Indians behind that

Rock, rock and roll
Plymouth rock, roll over
Rock, rock and roll
Plymouth rock, roll over
Ribbon of concrete, just see what you done done
To the church of the american indian ...

Once upon the Sandwich Isles
The social structure steamed upon Hawaii
Rock, rock and roll
Plymouth rock, roll over
Rock, rock and roll
Plymouth rock, roll over

Bicycle rider, see see what you�ve done,
To the church of the american indian ...

Wa halla loo lay
Wa halla loo lah
Keeny wok a poo lah
Wa halla loo lay
Wa halla loo lah
Keeny wok a poo lah
Wa halla loo lay
Wa halla loo lah
Keeny wok a poo lah
Wa halla loo lay
Wa halla loo lah
Keeny wok a poo lah

Rock, rock and roll
Plymouth rock, roll over
Rock, rock and roll
Plymouth rock, roll over



...and

http://www.sandwichislands.com/

[Wrightfan]

I think the better question is whether it's "wahala lu lei" or "Mahalo lu lei"

I think it's the former.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I'm not a Van Dyke Parks lyrical scholar. Can any of you guys translate those lyrics for me? Specifically, what is the connection between Plymouth Rock and Hawaii?

[Mr. Cohen]

I'm not a Van Dyke Parks lyrical scholar. Can any of you guys translate those lyrics for me? Specifically, what is the connection between Plymouth Rock and Hawaii?

Supposedly the chants are just nonsense made up using Hawaiian syllable sounds. Some people have tried to translate it, but nobody is clear on what it definitely meant, and it doesn't mean anything substantial as far as we know. As for the connection between Plymouth Rock and Hawaii? Well, according to legend, the pilgrims's first colony in America was Plymouth Rock. "Plymouth Rock, roll over..." is talking about American expansion.  American spread westward throughout the continent over next fews the centuries as part of their "manifest destiny".  It's a play on words (personification, as literary types would call this example) imagining Plymouth Rock as an actual rock that rolled westwards, rolling over the continent. It personified the pilgrims, American religious culture, and expansion all at once. America's westward expansion ended in Hawaii, the last state to enter the Union. In other words, it's where the "plymouth rock" stopped. This is the connection.

[The Shift]

Maybe it's Hawaiian for "Over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield..." and was the only way Brian and Van Dyke could trick Mike into singing those lyrics?
 

[buddhahat]

I'm not a Van Dyke Parks lyrical scholar. Can any of you guys translate those lyrics for me? Specifically, what is the connection between Plymouth Rock and Hawaii?

Supposedly the chants are just nonsense made up using Hawaiian syllable sounds. Some people have tried to translate it, but nobody is clear on what it definitely meant, and it doesn't mean anything substantial as far as we know. As for the connection between Plymouth Rock and Hawaii? Well, according to legend, the pilgrims's first colony in America was Plymouth Rock. "Plymouth Rock, roll over..." is talking about American expansion.  American spread westward throughout the continent over next fews the centuries as part of their "manifest destiny".  It's a play on words (personification, as literary types would call this example) imagining Plymouth Rock as an actual rock that rolled westwards, rolling over the continent. It personified the pilgrims, American religious culture, and expansion all at once. America's westward expansion ended in Hawaii, the last state to enter the Union. In other words, it's where the "plymouth rock" stopped. This is the connection.

Great post and explanation of the lyrics - thanks!

[Amanda Hart]

I'm not a Van Dyke Parks lyrical scholar. Can any of you guys translate those lyrics for me? Specifically, what is the connection between Plymouth Rock and Hawaii?

Supposedly the chants are just nonsense made up using Hawaiian syllable sounds. Some people have tried to translate it, but nobody is clear on what it definitely meant, and it doesn't mean anything substantial as far as we know. As for the connection between Plymouth Rock and Hawaii? Well, according to legend, the pilgrims's first colony in America was Plymouth Rock. "Plymouth Rock, roll over..." is talking about American expansion.  American spread westward throughout the continent over next fews the centuries as part of their "manifest destiny".  It's a play on words (personification, as literary types would call this example) imagining Plymouth Rock as an actual rock that rolled westwards, rolling over the continent. It personified the pilgrims, American religious culture, and expansion all at once. America's westward expansion ended in Hawaii, the last state to enter the Union. In other words, it's where the "plymouth rock" stopped. This is the connection.

That was the way I always understood it as well. Brian just said he wanted something that sounded Hawaiian so they came up with that chant.

[The Shift]

Plymouth Rock is also a breed of chicken, poss (poss dubious too) a reference linked to "what a dude'll doo [as in c*ck-a-doodle-do] in a town full of heroes & villains".
Didn't one of Frank Holmes illustrations also feature the words "Rhode Island Red"? (another chicken breed).

[JimC1702]

You can compare the theme of "Roll Plymouth Rock" to The Eagles' "The Last Resort".  It also deals with westward expansion to the west coast and eventually to Hawaii.   The people were always looking for some place new and better but spoiled every place they settled until there was no place left to go.  "The Last Resort" is an awesome song, probably much more cynical than "Roll Plymouth Rock".

[Mr. Cohen]

Plymouth Rock is also a breed of chicken, poss (poss dubious too) a reference linked to "what a dude'll doo [as in c*ck-a-doodle-do] in a town full of heroes & villains".

Yep, and rock, followed by roll, is a clever reference to rock 'n' roll, and perhaps also to the song "Roll Over Beethoven", which Rolling Stone called "the ultimate rock & roll call to arms, declaring a new era." It was also the opening track of the Beatles's Second Album (released in the U.S.).

[Sheriff John Stone]

I'm not a Van Dyke Parks lyrical scholar. Can any of you guys translate those lyrics for me? Specifically, what is the connection between Plymouth Rock and Hawaii?

It personified the pilgrims, American religious culture, and expansion all at once.

All in one song - got it. Thanks. So, the song is not really taking place in the present, with the Pilgrims landing. It's actually a review (what's a better word?), or a stating of what actually happened. It's not a prediction of what MIGHT happen; it's an afterthought. Is that right?

[Mr. Cohen]

All in one song - got it. Thanks. So, the song is not really taking place in the present, with the Pilgrims landing. It's actually a review (what's a better word?), or a stating of what actually happened. It's not a prediction of what MIGHT happen; it's an afterthought. Is that right?

Exactly. The chorus makes this clear with the question, "Bicycle Rider, just see, see what you've done done to the church of the American Indian" (it goes something like that, anyway). The song is looking negatively at the affect of colonialism, how it destroyed the preexisting cultures. The Bicycle Rider character is interesting in itself. Originally, SMiLE was supposed to be loosely about a bicyclist traveling across America. This opens up several layers of meanings. Albert Hoffman, the creator of LSD, took a now famous bike ride right after intentionally dosing himself with LSD for the first time. During the bike ride he realized the full possibilities of LSD. Bicycle Playing Cards was a popular brand around the turn of the 19th century, and reference in the song is supposed to be a sly comment on the effects of gambling and alcoholism on the native cultures.  The line "see, see rider, see what you have done..." is actually taken from the popular blues standard  "See See Rider", a simple 12 bar blues  song about an unfaithful lover that some people interpret as being about prostitution. This could tie into the girl from "Heroes and Villains", or something else completely. Who knows? But the possibilities are there...

[Bill Barnyard]

This topic has come up here before.  The Hawaiian chants were added to Roll Plymouth Rock by Brian, not VDP.

Van Dyke gave Brian a book with Hawaiian words; it may have been a dictionary or a book of poems. Brian put the words together, but since he did not understand the language, it may have come out too literal. However, I believe the chant is supposed to be a blessing.

 

[Sheriff John Stone]

All in one song - got it. Thanks. So, the song is not really taking place in the present, with the Pilgrims landing. It's actually a review (what's a better word?), or a stating of what actually happened. It's not a prediction of what MIGHT happen; it's an afterthought. Is that right?

Exactly. The chorus makes this clear with the question, "Bicycle Rider, just see, see what you've done done to the church of the American Indian" (it goes something like that, anyway). The song is looking negatively at the affect of colonialism, how it destroyed the preexisting cultures. The Bicycle Rider character is interesting in itself. Originally, SMiLE was supposed to be loosely about a bicyclist traveling across America. This opens up several layers of meanings. Albert Hoffman, the creator of LSD, took a now famous bike ride right after intentionally dosing himself with LSD for the first time. During the bike ride he realized the full possibilities of LSD. Bicycle Playing Cards was a popular brand around the turn of the 19th century, and reference in the song is supposed to be a sly comment on the effects of gambling and alcoholism on the native cultures.  The line "see, see rider, see what you have done..." is actually taken from the popular blues standard  "See See Rider", a simple 12 bar blues  song about an unfaithful lover that some people interpret as being about prostitution. This could tie into the girl from "Heroes and Villains", or something else completely. Who knows? But the possibilities are there...

I find it interesting how Brian would START SMiLE with two songs in the past tense ("Heroes And Villains" and "Roll Plymouth Rock"), almost a review of events. He really doesn't get going in the present until "Cabinessence" (I'll GIVE you a home on the range), or "Barnyard".....

[Bicyclerider]

Originally, SMiLE was supposed to be loosely about a bicyclist traveling across America. This opens up several layers of meanings. Albert Hoffman, the creator of LSD, took a now famous bike ride right after intentionally dosing himself with LSD for the first time. During the bike ride he realized the full possibilities of LSD. Bicycle Playing Cards was a popular brand around the turn of the 19th century, and reference in the song is supposed to be a sly comment on the effects of gambling and alcoholism on the native cultures. 

I don't recall anyone (like Brian or Van Dyke or the Vosse posse) mentioning anything about Smile being originally about a bicyclist travelling across America.  Van Dyke has maintained his use of bicycle rider was referring to the cards and gambling, the corrupting influence of European/Western civilization on the native Indians and their culture.  I don't see how a bicycle travelling ties in with the rest of Smile.

[Mr. Cohen]

I don't recall anyone (like Brian or Van Dyke or the Vosse posse) mentioning anything about Smile being originally about a bicyclist travelling across America.  Van Dyke has maintained his use of bicycle rider was referring to the cards and gambling, the corrupting influence of European/Western civilization on the native Indians and their culture.  I don't see how a bicycle travelling ties in with the rest of Smile.

I could swear I read it somewhere credible, but I've read so much junk about SMiLE I couldn't begin to tell you where it was from. It was one of those ideas toyed with but ultimately dropped,  like the Barnyard Billy character Brian and Van Dyke came up with. I could see the bicyclist riding across America tripping, and seeing all of these strange things the music is about. A "bicycle rider" could even fit in with the whole health concept Brian also wanted ("I'm in great shape", "do a lot", "I'm gonna be 'round my vegetables", etc.). But maybe I'm misremembering things.

[lance]

I've read the same thing about SMiLE, on the Internet somewhere, how it's about somebody riding a bicycle...a flying bicycle over America. If so, obviously that concept didn't last long.

[The Shift]

It was one of those ideas toyed with but ultimately dropped,  like the Barnyard Billy character Brian and Van Dyke came up with.

I thought Barnyard Billy was a Brian put-on in a documentary?

[Roger Ryan]

It was one of those ideas toyed with but ultimately dropped,  like the Barnyard Billy character Brian and Van Dyke came up with.

I thought Barnyard Billy was a Brian put-on in a documentary?

Yeah, Brian dashes off the improvised line "Oh Barnyard Billy, he loved his chickens" (or something like that) in the I JUST WASN'T MADE FOR THESE TIMES doc simply to illustrate the general tone of the SMiLE snippets. I doubt he was seriously remembering a discarded concept from '66!

As to the "Bicycle Rider" theory, the reference to the playing cards is a relatively new insight provided by Parks in '04. Prior to that, I believe the general consensus was that the term "Bicycle Rider" represented the European (or white man) who took the land away from the native Americans. Logically then, the "Bicycle Rider" travelling from Plymouth Rock to Hawaii is accurate given the assumed metaphor even if it was not actually stated as such by Parks or Wilson.

[Mr. Cohen]

As to the "Bicycle Rider" theory, the reference to the playing cards is a relatively new insight provided by Parks in '04. Prior to that, I believe the general consensus was that the term "Bicycle Rider" represented the European (or white man) who took the land away from the native Americans. Logically then, the "Bicycle Rider" travelling from Plymouth Rock to Hawaii is accurate given the assumed metaphor even if it was not actually stated as such by Parks or Wilson.

I think it means both. The playing cards represented European culture - not only were the cards strongly associated with gambling and all of the other Wild West debauchery that went along with it (drinking, prostitution, etc.), but on them are the pictures of kings and queens, frequently along with other colonial images. We can see the effect of gambling on the Native Americans even today, with entire reservations devoted to casinos.

[Boiled Egg]

'what a dude'll do' -> c*ck a doodle-do

i'd never spotted this one.  wallop.

i remember first spotting 'hall a cost-' (surf's up), aged about 19, and thinking that was a bastard clever bit of work.  but ever since then (i'm about 135 now) i've been repeatedly tricked by the magician.  truly, parks's level of wordplay is absolutely dizzying sometimes.  i'm sure there are doctorate theses or concordances of his work - if not, there will be, you bet - but i never fail to get a real kick out of stumbling across some hitherto undiscovered helix of vdp wit.

a right clever sod, our van.  i hope he had a ripping birthday bash on sunday.  (he's now as old as the century was when SMiLE was written, significance fans.)

[Mahalo]

i'd never spotted this one.  wallop.

i remember first spotting 'hall a cost-' (surf's up),

Never saw that before...thanx Boiled Egg

[Sheriff John Stone]

Maybe I'm taking the lyrics to literally, but how does one ride a bicycle on the ocean to reach Hawaii?