I have seen no fewer than 8 times, even bringing one of my kids who loves Pet Sounds to see Brian, live.

You've seen the Mike & Bruce show 8 times? Wow. Do they give you backstage passes and free shirts and programs too? If not, they should for all the support and promotion you're giving them here! 

What happens is ultimately up to them.  Not the fans.

Mikie-Mikie-Mikie - what I said was related to "Brian" shows since he started touring...the 8 shows...

Dennis' streaking would whip the crowd into a frenzy - he would not even need to sing!  It is a shame about Dennis' former girlfriend (McVie) not being with Fleetwood Mac.  I used those bands only as examples of bands whose fans were "accepting of new band members" not for any particular reason...It took me a while ( a couple of years ) to "watch and appreciate" the talent of the new guys.
It is not the same.  So what.  Change can be good and life goes on.  The music is the "star" of the show!

When I saw the Stones, Blondie was with them.  I could not have been more proud of Mick's good taste in vocalists.  I think "our" guys sang with him first!  I thought I was "balanced" with the bands...Brian has a fantastic band and I just love to see Nelson Bragg do his percussion section as well as Probyn Gregory and the rest.  I did see Al Jardine in '06 when he toured with Brian and he was well received.  It is too bad that he does not tour in my area with his band.  I would go see him, too!   

The last "few" shows (I am not counting... ) were sold out.  [Mike and Bruce's] - so I guess the "decision to get tickets" is pretty evident. Fans are buying them. 

I hope "you" have seen them recently. 

 

So it's settled then. Brian's band is the best.  

Mike & Bruce will never be "The Beach Boys" without Al and even Dave. Whatever happened to that requirement that there be a minimum of 3 members before they can call themselves "The Beach Boys"?

Anybody can come up with ex Papa Do Run Run members and call themselves "The Beach Boys". And then we throw in a Cowsill and Mike Love's son and your band is complete. From all counts, Scott Totten is an excellent band leader, though, and demands the best out of everyone. That's good to know. But.........have members of "The Beach Boys" band put out any albums? How many Wondermints and Brian solo albums are out there with Brian's band members writing and playing and singing their butts off?  Quite a few, eh? Has the current incarnation of "The Beach Boys" played Pet Sounds or SMiLE in its entirety? No. So much for playing the artsy fartsy stuff, Mike & Bruce can stick with playing the travelin' jukebox of hits......

Listen to Brian's band play stuff like "Marcella" and tell me they can't rock.

Mikie - AGD has cleared up that "Wilson and "membership" (quorum?) requirement.  But like it or not, they "are" the Beach Boys.  No one complains when a new Rolling Stone is on stage or in Fleetwood Mac or any other rock band.   They are accepted and life goes on.

The Beach Boys use "Cool Head, Warm Heart," and Kokomo which are not "Brian" songs.  They are different bands, but the Beach Boys seem to sing in the signature "interlocked" vocals and the invisible "baton" of Scott Totten is amazing.  He has taken them to a new level.  I think Carl would be pleased with their fine work.   They play to a different demographic than Brian, whom I have seen no fewer than 8 times, even bringing one of my kids who loves Pet Sounds to see Brian, live.  

Brian's group is not the "toddler-to-grandparent" dynamic as is the Beach Boys.  It is a more "arty" or they perceive themselves as "arty" group.  I love the music and love to finally hear Brian, as he had that long "pose" in his career.  

Brian's band is different, not better or worse than Mike's in that vocally they are not on "lock" in the same manner as the Beach Boys.  They tend to be more "orchestral" than the 7 guys on stage in the Beach Boys. [Although I have seen the "stripped down" version of Brian's Band, and they were great, too.]  I would love to see the Beach Boys play with a symphony at some point.  Much of the music lends itself to that "presentation."  Brian's band is Brian's "vision" for the way in which he wants to present his work.  There is nothing wrong with that.  

And I do also love Marcella and Rhonda on the rockin' 73 Concert which I listen to a lot, even still.  You have not seen "Rhonda" until you have seen John Cowsill swagger across the stage and whip the crowd into a frenzy.  And he does double duty on the congas alongside his "percussion section."  It is a highlight of the show; he is a tremendous performer in his own right, and can really get that audience to "respond" to his work.  

Every one of those guys does a great job and most take a "lead" for several songs. Tim Bonhomme is "working" four keyboards simultaneously, Randell and his "fabulous falsetto" brings the old "So Young" doo wop to life and Christian Love does an amazing job with Good Vibrations.  People leave "drained and drenched" (in sweaty exhaustion!)  

Brian tends to sing most of the leads in his shows.  And the crowd is rockin' at the end of the night.  No question. And there is a lot of pride in the audience for Brian's accomplishments and his "comeback."   It tends to bring people out who have been long-time Beach Boys fans, who, not unlike myself, did not lay my eyes on Brian for about 20 years.  They seem to be "making up for lost time" when Brian was not around.  His is a "niche" market.  

The fans seem to be happy with both bands and that is really the answer to this eternal and infernal question.   You see more Hawaiian shirts at Mike and Bruce's shows and more "théâtre attire" (depending on the venue) for Brian, but both groups seem happy to attend and have a great time.  Either way, the music can't be beat.      

What happens is ultimately up to them.  Not the fans.  

Some time back, I plugged the vocals of God Only Knows into Microsoft Songsmith, and this is what I got:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsVZartVErc

Unless I'm mistaken or otherwise tonedeaf, the chords (at least the first four) are identical to the chords of the regular backing track. It's like Brian Wilson's songwriting aura is able to extend even into software so that it gets it right for him.

Wow! How does one spell "horrific?"

Brian got it "right" with one ear! And, without that computer program.

That was a "painful" listen.

And worse, even to see the album image simultaneously. 

Dissonance.  And not "cognitive dissonance" either. 

OK, now Brian has proved he is 100% productive and successful, at the top of his game.  The record is going to be huge -- a rarity in the dusk of the recording industry -- and he doesn't need the other guys in the least.  His people are now in a position to say to Mike, Al, (Bruce?) and David --- we will do a handful of shows and make a dvd -- if and only if --

Brian's band and you -- alone -- playing with him

1st. set -- the Gershwin album, live, you helping with backup vocals and instruments.
2nd set -- Beach Boys and solo career retrospective -- each guy picks an equal number of songs, subject to the veto of any other.  Arrangements are collaborative but Brian gets final say.

Anything less, no deal.

Brian is doing well at this point in his career, and I think everyone is happy for him.  A "lifer" - I did not see him for 20 years because he rarely appeared in East Coast venues.  When he is in  reasonable "driving range" I see him because I just love the music. 

My observation is that Brian has developed his own touring "formula," as it were.  If he is doing a themed "corpus" as Pet Sounds, SMiLE and The Lucky Old Sun,  he does the first set as Beach Boys Classics, then he does the "themed-album" work after a good intermission, and closes with a couple of either his own songs or Beach Boys Classics, and usually the lovely "Love and Mercy" which would bring the most "reluctant" concert goer to their knees.  Brian has done "just Brian" tours with Beach Boys classics with some of his own work thrown in for good measure.   

The crowd, in my opinion still wants to hear and rock with the Beach Boys stuff and come for that, too, and the tours are usually coordinated to be part of the "promotional" package and rightfully so, and the release seems to be well-timed to the tour.  Many of the fans never saw him when he was with the Beach Boys because he was not touring at the time, so this also a novelty and a "draw." 

But it is not for us, as fans to decide what the setlist will be but up to Brian and his band if he does a combo Beach Boys classics/Gershwin tour.  What does seem to work in the live context is to capitalize on what people already know, such as Surfin' USA and Rhonda, to get the audience "prepped and ready" to pay attention to listen to the new stuff. 
 
They can decide what form they will choose;  they are "big boys" and don't need to ask a "parent" ("Murry" pun intended) whatever form it takes will be fine with me and spectacular to be sure;  there is so much brain power and spectacular talent in both (or the three bands, if you include Al and David's groups.) 

It looks more like the chivalrous "round table" of King Arthur to me.  While it is in the delicate negotiation stage, it is none of our business. And, if people just keep a "Cool Head and Warm Heart" - it may happen thusly!

     

That is ridiculous!  I saw the Westbury show on Friday night, and there was no "over play" of John Stamos and if anything, he brought a lot to the table, in terms of his great Beach Boys connection.  He sat at Bruce Johnston's keyboard and played Dennis Wilson's "Forever" while Bruce joined the stage line with a hand mike. 

Stamos' first comments were something like, "Where would we all be without the music of the Beach Boys?" It brought thunderous applause when he mentioned Dennis, Carl and Brian  Wilson.  It brought out a lot of young people alongside their parents and grandparents enjoying the show together.  Stamos played the drums, bongos, guitar and keyboard...He did not "show anyone up" and if anything was a real team player, and there was lots of banter, laughter and the band had at least as much fun as the audience. 

Saturday night Stamos wore a vintage Beach Boys 1981 t-shirt...and brought a special needs girl who was wearing a John Stamos "Uncle Jesse" t-shirt to sing with him and Bruce, and wrapped his guitar around her so it looked as if she was playing the guitar.  I have more respect than ever for someone so kind as he.  It is not the first time I saw him do that for some of the many special needs population who love the Beach Boys and come to the shows.  It says a lot about the kind of person he is.

Mike Love can sing his praises till the cows come home.  Stamos deserves it.  He may be recognized as a big star but his heart is just as big and Stamos is not "too big" to be kind to the special needs folks and give them a great memory of being on stage with the band.  Bravo John Stamos!         

First, because the thread is "Locked" I just read John's Definitive Vocals thread...exquisite work...Thanks, I will be really listening...

Second, I would like to "gently suggest" that I don't get how someone wants to "get credit"  for "suggesting" that a composer "work" on arranging a song.  The "actual work" is what merits credit not the suggestion that  a composer take it on as a project. 

Now, if it had been a "collaborative effort" that is a different story, and it seems over time, that people that did "active work" (not "suggestions" for arranged adaptations) and for whom real compositional credit was not awarded.  If you do "actual work" you should get "actual credit." Your notes, tapes, revisions all support your effort and contributions.  It is the concept of writing down, memorializing, or taping to "memorialize" your work to prove what you did should be credited.  It is tangible.

An exception might be where you work for someone as their employee, and "your" work becomes "their" intellectual property, such as a scientist working for a chemical company.  The work can either be shared by the two or owned by the company outright and by "arrangement" (no pun intended.)  You would be using their laboratory and work space, so it is a different scenario.     

There seems to be a disconnect as between "bringing something to the table of merit" and actually sitting with a pencil on sheet music at a piano or other keyboard, and studiously working through measures or working by yourself and later working out "jointly" details for a common "work." 

Maybe I did not understand the discussion of who deserved what credit.

As a general rule, "inspiration" (intangible) gets your name on the stern of a boat ;  the "actual work" (tangible) gets your name on the "check in the mail."       

Has Mr. Badman ever publicly commented on his "misinformation", and relying on other sources in his book? Or about the Social Security numbers and other information like that?

Not really... when I emailed him (and the publishers) to point out a few concerns of mine, he told me that his researchers neglected to provide their sources when they delivered their info to him, and also that he was unaware of the significance of American Social Security numbers. Otherwise, I've seen no 'public' apology.

Andrew - I found that equally shocking (the Social Security Numbers publication) and, think should have been "redacted out" especially in light of the fact that there is a "half-hearted" attempt in doing same with the "Employer's Address (which is "visible" on p. 127 of Badman) and street address, as well as the label which was crossed out.  On other pages such as on p. 109 and 118, there is no "redaction" or "blacking out" of any information.

Those numbers are highly "private" but used to be employed at an ID number on the Drivers Licences in many states in the US, although my home state has removed it and assigns another non Social Security number as your Drivers License ID number, as Identity theft has become such a problem.   

It is particularly shocking, given the copyright of my book, which is 2004 and during a time when not only Identity Theft became an issue but also a news item, as "for a price"  people were able to ascertain the Social Security numbers of US Presidents and high profile individuals.   

One would think that if a subsequent "printing" should occur, not only should the numbers be "redacted" completely, an apology should issue from the author for their inclusion in the first place, since less important (in my opinion) information was "redacted" or "blacked out" in what is offered as an historic document.   

And in the July, 1969 section, I think there are concert date "errors."       

I thought it was about the ego-death often reported during intense psychedelic experiences...they didn't like the drug reference. I think.

It may sound naive but I did not interpret the "trip through the day" thing as any more than "stumbling/staggering through" in the sense of "maladroit" (falling over ones' feet) in the sense of a lack of "confidence" in the journey of "growth to adulthood"  rather than drug-induced and many questioned whethere there was "double entendre" that was intentional.  And, many of the record companies insisted on lyric changes for "public perception" or for direct censorship for radio airplay legalities to conform with the then existing "decency codes." 

    

That is wishful thinking...

fyi - a new Big Love theme-song last night...I found the whole intro rather bizarre...they removed God Only Knows as the opening music.  Rather than having images of the characters "on their feet - figure skating" to GOK, they are "free falling" - maybe it is a metaphor? 

Saw this over the weekend and to my delight it featured Wouldn't It Be Nice in a dance scene at a graduation party.  Baldwin and Streep dancing to this.  Played the whole song  and the party scene ended with the last note.

This movie continues to do well at the box office.

The Beach Boys and Pet Sounds continue to permeate the pop culture!

By the way, if you enjoyed Somethings Gottta Give and What Women Want,  you will also like this movie.

That is great!  I may wait to see it on HBO alongside "God Only Knows" - (Big Love theme song)...someone has good sense to use music which "that 60's 'love' generation" can identify with; and that there are reasons to make nice romantic comedies, movies without lots of violence, and car chases,  with issues that can crop up as we all enjoy "the very empowering other side of 50!"   And, the growing "market share" that many of us represent.  Pet Sounds still rules!    Thanks for that!

Just to continue the thread...Does anybody think that the white suits were anymore "hip?"  Personally I think that the white suits was a poor idea in 1968-they looked much cooler in their street clothes and no other (non motown) acts were wearing matching suits in 1968.  Certainly looked "square" when compared with the big acts of that time-Jimi Hendrix Experience, the Doors, the Byrds, Rolling Stones, Buffalo Springfield, Kinks, etc, etc. I think the white suits gave them a kind of Osmonds, safe, kind of look.

Embarrassingly enough, back in the day, the white outfits were labeled "ice cream suits" by the hipster establishment. Couldn't agree more-not even Dennis could make em look acceptable in person.

Just saw Knebworth (1980) and Farm Aid (1985)  and respectively, Al Jardine had the white suit on (probably to stay warm) and the striped shirt (blue and white) ...just Al...there was also a period where they seemed to have some white short sleeve shirt and neckerchief which seemed subsequent to the white suit jacket...must have been so hot under those lights to play with a blazer on...

Embarrassingly enough, back in the day, the white outfits were labeled "ice cream suits" by the hipster establishment.

IIRC, the "ice cream suits" were a set of brightly colored and/or pastel suits that they wore for the Eye magazine shoot -- not the white suits.

BTW, I'm correcting the spelling in the subject line, because "stripped shirts" = shirtless. Not that that's a bad thing when it comes to Denny.  
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Emdeeh - I saw them in those white suits and IMHO  they looked mighty fine.  I have an old picture of one of them in black and white so it is difficult to discern which "hue"  of white it is.   I bought my copy of EYE when it hit the stands at the Out of Town Ticket kiosk in Harvard Square.  

A woman's perspective on how they looked might be different from a guy's, and the fashion "rear-view" mirror can be unkind.   They were stylin' as far as I was concerned.  It was cool to see what they would wear by 1971 when they did Symphony Hall, in Boston, when I was a college freshman. They each had some "look" that "emerged" which I thought was even better.  

There is a picture of Dennis in the Program book, (Friends tour?) which defies any notion of his looking un cool in that white suit.  He was walking barefoot on a beach with the jacket on and the wind blowing throug his gorgeous locks.  It would be crazy to expect him to play with the suit jacket on because the job is so "physical" and sweaty by nature.  Hunky-dunky Dennis!  

The MIT show was first scheduled for Apr 30 1966-a big event at Crane's Beach.  The BBs played at Boston College earlier and then drove there-but they got lost and hardly started playing before the curfew, so they graciously agreed to come to MIT itself and play a makeup show on May 6  1966, which I presume was a dayoff originally-though they may have played somewhere else that day as well.  The MIT student newspaper is online and you can find articles about the May 6 1966 show if you look for it.  I contributed most of the concert info at AGD's site and I have collected way too many concert reviews and photos about this stuff-so I know a lot of facts and can back them up-but I never saw the BBs in the 60s or 70s so I certainly envy you

Ian -  It is cool to look back and see the Band, get better over time, and each of the members have their own musical "personality" if you will, since I first started listening to them, and all the media to "hear them" on, evolve and change from 45's to mp3 players...and all that in between. 

It is amazing to see the influence they have had on "world music" and the great reception they get when they tour.  You have done well to dig up all those cool resources like student newspapers to get the "feel" of what the kids were doing and how the Beach Boys music played a part in their school days...

You would not believe the girls screaming for Dennis who would toss drumsticks out to the audience and on the flipside, watching Carl sing his heart out, that last summer in '97, with an audience in tears, as he was singing his farewell to his fans...

So that "make up date" the Boys played is something that some guy can still speak of with such fondness over 40 years later...and the great time they had at the "genius factory" that is still MIT! Does it get much better?

 

I just received an email from a nice man who was at the May - 1967 show at MIT and he says that it was 80 degrees at the show and that they did wear striped shirts, and that it was so hot, presumably before the end of the semester that they were "swimming" in a "moat-like area" on the  campus.  Short-sleeved shirts make more sense on a hot night with college kids drinking beer from kegs!

Errr... small problem - there was no May 1967 gig at MIT. Or anywhere in the USA. The band were in Europe for the whole of May. Try May 1966 - the 6th.  

You might find these pages useful: http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/gigs.html

Thanks Jon for the kind words and Andrew - I did not use your site as I considered it "cheating...

The "bad news" for this guy is that he could be a year older than he thought...the Beach Boys show, is part of the MIT Alumi pages for that year...he could have been an underclassman...

There would likely be some clothing contracts or "fitting" schedules if they were individually tailored   
and isn't it true that many "private" dates are not published?

Whatever the case, April 28, 1967 was my first show, and on the 30th,  some  friends who had been at the Boston airport got Dennis'and Carl's autographs on my program... it was in 2008, when brother Brian kindly signed, and Mike and Bruce's still later... over 40 years later...

This has been an interesting thread...   Thanks!

I'm pretty positive he didn't wear it on the 68 tour.  The producers of American Band mislabled the Brighton footage as England 1968 but that footage-with Mike dancing around in his white robes was filmed at the Brighton show that opened the 69 tour.  All the photos (properly dated) and stuff from mags indicates that he wore those in 69.  It is funny  that he didn't wear them on Douglas it's true-maybe your right about his reasons

Ian - When was the "inverticube" program released?  I just  looked at mine and it is full of "white suits" including one of Dennis walking barefoot on some beach.  If it was sold in November of 1967, in Boston, then it might "reference backwards" as to what was being worn and when.  I am not convinced that they did not "switch uniforms" - who would play in a suit in a " hot (temperature) venue" when they could wear a short sleeved shirt? 

It might also follow that if they were playing to a more "academic" audience, they might have worn the suits rather than short sleeves.  I am not sure if photos of the concert were permitted or prohibited;  I tend to think prohibited without permission.   

That program is from the Friends tour....mid '68.

Jon - I just received an email from a nice man who was at the May - 1967 show at MIT and he says that it was 80 degrees at the show and that they did wear striped shirts, and that it was so hot, presumably before the end of the semester that they were "swimming" in a "moat-like area" on the  campus.  Short-sleeved shirts make more sense on a hot night with college kids drinking beer from kegs!

The problem with the Capitol Program books is that there is no dated copyright which would place it "in time" with other "documentary evidence" from that period which would "self-authenticate"  as an "ancient document"(over 25 years)as to what was going on at the time.

The jury is still out on this one...

I'm pretty positive he didn't wear it on the 68 tour.  The producers of American Band mislabled the Brighton footage as England 1968 but that footage-with Mike dancing around in his white robes was filmed at the Brighton show that opened the 69 tour.  All the photos (properly dated) and stuff from mags indicates that he wore those in 69.  It is funny  that he didn't wear them on Douglas it's true-maybe your right about his reasons

Ian - When was the "inverticube" program released?  I just  looked at mine and it is full of "white suits" including one of Dennis walking barefoot on some beach.  If it was sold in November of 1967, in Boston, then it might "reference backwards" as to what was being worn and when.  I am not convinced that they did not "switch uniforms" - who would play in a suit in a " hot (temperature) venue" when they could wear a short sleeved shirt? 

It might also follow that if they were playing to a more "academic" audience, they might have worn the suits rather than short sleeves.  I am not sure if photos of the concert were permitted or prohibited;  I tend to think prohibited without permission.   

The April 1967 show wasn't with Strawberry Alarm Clock-they were on the tour with Buffalo Springfield in Nov 1967. The Apr 28 show was opened by Tommy James & the Shondells, the Buckinghams and Jim and Jean. I have the ads-so I think you are indeed recalling the Nov 67 show

Jim and Jean sound familiar as well as the Buckinghams for sure.  There was usually a "comedy act" followed by a warm up band, the Shondells, maybe. My focus was not on them. It was a long time to wait for the "headliners." I would be very interested in seeing some photos of the April show, now that this issue has been raised.  I have eaten ( yum-yum) a few words with a "fork and spoon" in my lifetime! 

The Beach Boys usually did about 12-14 songs, and the music community wanted to see this "Theremin." It was a "serious" audience.   According to Badman, they were in NJ the next day and on their way to Ireland, but were picked up in Boston. 

Monday, May 1st was the same day that Carl had to appear in Federal Court in LA as a result of his Conscientious Objector status.  According to Badman, he had been arrested in New York two days before the Boston show and there was concert about whether he would be there.  His Selective Service Status was as large an issue as the show.

Back Bay Theatre was demolished the following spring. 

As I said there is overwhelming evidence that they continued to wear the striped shirts till Oct 67. They played the Back Bay Theatre in Nov 1967 as well, are you sure that wasn't the time you saw them?  That would solve everything. The only other explanation is that they experimented with the suits but then went back to stripes for 6 more months-but that seems hard to believe.  I have no photos of April 28-as far as I can tell the show wasn't reviewed, though I have ads from the Herald and the Globe...but I do have pics from April 19 and 21 and 29-all striped shirts. As well as May 67-for example NME Poll Winners-in stripes

They toured in April of 1967 with the Strawberry Alarm Clock and it was about 6 months post Good Vibrations.  I have my Spring 1967 Program (I think the Fall 1967 was a different program book; I have both.) 

November 1967 was with Buffalo Springfield (Go Steve Stills!!!) - It may be that they were dressing for the "audience" as Americans in Europe, where the climate, politically, musically and socially were a little different because of the Vietnam War, and people were very excited about the Thermin.  Mike did not play that in Boston with a striped shirt on, in April of 1967.  He may have had "street clothing on" but I am sure of November 1967 because I still have a picture of one of the guys in the white suit.   And, they may have travelled with more than one "stage uniform," depending on where they were playing.

I probably remember those shows better because they were among the first, and much to my parents' chagrin,
I paid more attention to the Beach Boys, than Algebra and Geometry. 

"I don't know if they ever wore the striped shirts elsewhere, but I never saw them, and with Pet Sounds having been released a year or so earlier, there might have been some kind of wardrobe "reformation" consistent with the progression of the music... "


wardrobe reformation................that could go right up there with wardrobe malfunction....

....I can use that term to explain why I'm dressed in casual Friday on a Wednesday........

Aegir "brought back" those jackets from the New Year's Eve special...awesome!


Styles come and go...Thank God they never wore (that  I remember)  polyester leisure suits !!!

I am holding my ground on the white suits! 

BBs wore the striped shirts as late as Oct 8 1967 in Chicago.  The next photo I have is from the February 1968 Pacific NW shows and they had switched to the white suits.  If I had to guess-i bet they had them made for their app on the UNICEF show from Paris in Dec 1967.  

Ian - My first Beach Boys Concert was  April 28, 1967 at the long-gone Back Bay Theatre in Boston; and of course I was 5 years old!  I went with a bunch of kids from school and there was a collective "gasp" right through the third row as we exclaimed,  "Where are their striped shirts?" Again in the same theatre in November of 1967, and in the white suits.  It is kind of tricky to use a 2009 "lens" on what happened in 1967.  At the time, they looked great.  People were mopre excited about seeing the Theremin, than anything else and as I remember the crowd was "older" and less of the "arena" or football stadium crowd;  more reserved, I guess.     


I don't know if they ever wore the striped shirts elsewhere, but I never saw them, and with Pet Sounds having been released a year or so earlier, there might have been some kind of wardrobe "reformation" consistent with the progression of the music...