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People always talk about Brian and his voice, but not much is said about Dennis's voice changing. Are there any concert or studio recordings from 1974-1975 that document when Dennis started losing his voice? I have heard a 1974 live recording of him singing "Help Me, Rhonda" from the Nassau Collisium, and he sounds good. But by the time he sang "In The Still Of The Night" from 15 Big Ones, there was a definite drop in his range, and he sounded a little hoarse overall. By the time he sang "Mona"  just a year later, his voice was totally shot, never to return to what it was in the 1960's.

I heard an interview from early 1974 where he sounds like he would from 75-80, yet you are right he sounds pretty much like he did in 1973 on the June 1974 Help Me Rhonda. THe earliest I know for sure his voice changed was the Chicago tour when he sang In The Back Of My Mind. It's from May 1975. It's a lot smoother then it would be say on L.A. Light, but it sounds pretty much like it does on In The Still Of The Night.

It's interesting to compare his two Christmas messages on the Christmas CD, one from 1964 and the other from 1977 IIRC.  The difference is pretty dramatic, and sad.  I think his age is around 33 by the time of the second one, but he sounds like he's 80.  Hard livin' catches up.

I've always thought it was so sad too. Don't get me wrong I love his vocals on POB, Mona, In The Still Of The Night, and everything else from then on, it's great, but I think it's heartbreaking because we knew he didn't always sound like that. His voice before that was so amazing. There was even something about his speaking voice that was attractive and unique. It had this cool attitude to it that was sweet, and nobody else sounded exactly like him. It's sad to think he couldn't sing his important part in the harmonies, and all his leads the same way again. And so young, at 25 he was singing Forever, at 31 In The Still OF The Night. What a change

High cola usage is very damaging to the voice box. And not the liquid.

I wish you could magically erase the year 1975 from the Beach Boys' history...

I know what you mean, so much vocal damage happened that year.

I wish that most of 1974-76 could be erased from the BB's history. By the time 15 Big Ones came out, they were almost a completely different group. So many things went very badly for them between that time.

I think that "In The Still Of The Night" was the last vocal from Dennis that could be called "very good". It's clear that a lot of damage had already been done, but it's a lot smoother than it would be within a year.

"You and I", "Rainbows" and some others on POB have far superior vocals to ITSOTN...and were recorded later.

Jon where do you first hear the change? I assume you heard some things from 1973-75 that we haven't. Also you are right those are better vocals, but ITSOTN is a little clearer, kind of like the Beacago ITBOMM.

Right ITSOTN is clearer or smoother, it just isn't a very good vocal. To me things like River Song, and Angel Come Home are much better vocals than that one, even if they are raspier. But to me raspy doesn't equal bad. I know a lot of folks feel differently.

As far as commenting on this thread's question...I think its a gradual loss until 1978/79. Dennis had a raspy voice in 1961, you can hear it in the rehearsal tape for Surfin', and on Luau...it just became gradually rougher over time. There were moments when he could sing clearly like on Barbara, Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again...Little Bird, Forever...things like that...but listen to the way he says "faster" on Little Honda...the middle section of Girls on the Beach...its great but raspy and that's '64. There are actually a few moments on things in '76 and '77 that still show brief smoothness in tone...but the rasp, or hoarseness is there 90% of the time or more by then. But DW smoked before the BB's, he lived hard throughout...he had moments of peacefulness...like '69/70 with Barbara and I think his voice shows the glow he had in his personal life. By '78 he'd really battered it with drugs and booze and fighting and staying up for days...and by '80 it was like going off a cliff...never to return even for a moment. So I'd say he "lost" his voice in '78 to '80.

Since we have the Brian topic up I thought we could revive this one. I recently heard a few 1973-74 recordings and I would like to share what I thought. Granted these are all audience recordings so there are subtleties that I am sure I miss. I heard a 12-73 show where Dennis does Forever. He sounds really good. If I didn't know better I would have guessed it was from 1970. Then I heard an April 1974 Help Me Rhonda, he is singing in a different style of course but you can still hear some higher range. We discussed the June 1974 Help Me Rhonda and he sounds pretty good there too although again the type of song it is makes it a touch harder to determine. Finally I heard a 9-74 recording of Help Me Rhonda and his voice is very raspy and deep. He doesn't sound bad, but he sounds like the older Dennis. I just wish I could confirm when he first got punched in the throat. We know his voice collapsed completely in January 1981 on Superbowl Sunday when Stan and Rocky beat the hell out of him, but the apparent fight with Steve Love has yet to be dated. Again I do get confused a little because that early 1974 interview I heard has him pretty hoarse. I guess I have narrowed the first big change down to happening between the very end of December 1973 and the very end of August 1974.

As an aside isn't it sad that from 1973 on he only really did Help Me Rhonda and You Are So Beautiful. Sure he did Angel Come Home for 3 months  but other then three or four 1977 shows where he did solo material, he really didn't get to have the spotlight vocally. I think the lack of Dennis leads was just about the worst thing about the Beach Boys set in those days. Of course by 1981 a whole lot more was wrong with the shows and Dennis couldn't sing anyway.

Aloha Jon - any word about the reissue of "The Real Beach Boy"?

I think Dennis always had a fairly rough voice . . . evidenced early by the bridge for "Girls On the Beach."

It got worse later . . . But Dennis developed a major songwriting talent.

I think Dennis's creative endeavors far outweighed his vocal abilities.

M.

Dennis' original beautiful singing voice is last heard in a studio recording on Make It Good, Cuddle Up, Barbara which would make it 1971. On Holland he lets' Carl sing his upper lead vocals. One rumour has it that Dennis' voice was 'ruined' from a kick to the throat during a bar-fight!?
Barbara - his wife at the time - didn't know how or why his voice changed when asked about it at the BB-Stomp convention. Other than maybe it was the result of accumilated abuses(?)

Actually the fight did happen and it was probably Steve Love. Ed Roach and Steve Desper remember it happening vividly. The last studio recording I heard with a smooth voice was an early River Song that was probably recorded the summer of 1973 but it could be as late as summer of 1974.

That's horrible if it was being kicked in the throat that caused his voice to get much worse.
(especially if it was Steven Love).

I LOVE his early-period voice and have to disagree that his songwriting was superior to
his vocal skills, at least until the mid-to-late '70s. He had an amazingly sensitive, delicate
combination of gentleness and raspiness.

He was a great, subtle, underappreciated singer. :'(

Agreed I think he had a very unigue voice when he was in his twenties. I like his later voice more and more each year but something is still gone.

Well, I think Dennis got some moments on his later years, he sung on Surfer Girl, sometimes Good Vibrations, Heroes & Villains, Help Me Rhonda and got to sing before the encore "You Are So Beautiful". They played quite often "Angel Come Home" and Dennis did "Good Timin'" too. Besides Mike (and maybe Al) he talked the most with the fans.

I think it's too a shame what happened with his voice, but actually I enjoy his later leads much more. Angel Come Home just sounds so great, one of the best Beach Boys lead vocals ever and I can't say he did bad singing on one song 'til 1981. His voice was rough, but with passion. Just like the same thing what happened with Keith Richards. Both sounded even cooler then. ^^

Well Keith I think really sounded better in in sixties and seventies but I see what you mean. Both continued to have character. I still think Dennis didn't get to sing enough live though.

I've heard a version of You Are So Beautiful from the Chicago tour in the summer of '75 and he still sounded like his old self...   
When was In The Still of the Night Recorded?

Keith Richards turned 65 years old today BTW....I think Keith still sounds pretty good on his occasional leads.

Like Dylan (one of the best singers out there), Keith has great phrasing and feeling, specially on the ballads. You listen to him sing and you feel he really means it.

I have heard a version of Help Me Rhonda with Dennis singing from July 21, 1974 in Millwaukee, and Dennis sounds great. Better than he did on the Nassau Collisium show from the same year. I have also heard a version of You Are So Beautiful from June 14th 1975 in Madison Square Garden. It was part of the Tour with Chicago. He sounds better than he did on the version of ITBOMM from June of that year. He's really hoarse, but his voice still sounds "young", if that makes any sense. He was hoarse, but it sounded to me like anybody's voice after a two hour concert. It didn;t seem like anything was really "wrong" with his voice, like it did a year or two later. Listening to all these recordings, it almost maddens me that Dennis couldn't/wouldn't slow down for a good 6 to 9 months to heal from that punch to the throat in 1974.

It's hard again to say when was the last really clear vocal. I just want to be able to date the first punch in the throat. I would certainly say that the September 1974 show to be the first really changed vocal, if I hadn't heard how bad his speaking voice souned on the Feburary 1974 interview. Who knows if he had given up cocaine and smoking it may have gone back to normal by 1975.

What was the September 1974 show?

I forgot the town but it was 9-1-74

I think Rainbows is a very good vocal. For the Bambu tracks, I think Dennis sounds very good on Under the Moonlight and Constant Companion. Did Carli have a way of coaxing good vocals out of Dennis, or was it that his voice at this time was better suited for up-temp songs?

Indiana University, Bloomington IN [w/The Eagles and Kansas]

Thanks. Again he just seems to have more trouble holding notes and it sounds much deeper then even a few months previous.

I remember a TV appearance the Boys made in '81, when Carl was out of the group. It began with the group introducing themselves.

"Mike Love, Santa Barbara, California!"
"Al Jardine from Big Sur, California!"
"Bruce Johnston, Pacific Palisades, California!"
"DENNIS! FROM VENICE!"

Imagine the last line but in the most horrible bark you can think of. That's how Dennis sounded in 1981.

Then the bit in American Band from '83 in Costa Mesa where Dennis can barely breathe while he's talking, so all he can let out is a huff of words. That's the worst.

Domenic Priore told me about that TV show but I cannot find it anywhere. Was it a cheerleader comptition or something?

Yeah I have trouble holding back the tears whenever I see that... really sad :'(

Do we know when Dennis started using cocaine?  Was it in 73' after Murry died?  Seems a lot changed for he and Brian at that point. 

National Collegiate Cheerleading Championships.

Didn't Dennis suffer from recurring polyps on his vocal chords? It would explain a lot, apart from the booze etc. Keef has been a happy 'user' all his life and never lost his voice the way Dennis did.

Jon correct me if I am wrong but I think you told me once that the cocaine for Dennis first got bad after Murry died and that he cleaned up after meeting Karen. Apperently this even extended to booze as I have a 1975 article from the short lived magazine In The Know where a very handsome Dennis is seen holding a bottle of water and the caption says he doesn't touch liquer. I think by late 1976 he was getting heavy into cocaine again worse then before. From there we know what happened.

In an interview reproduced in the later edition of the book Back To The Beach there is an interview with Carl. He says for Brian the cocaine use first became noticable in Brian during the So Tough sessions. Again I am sure it got worse after Murry passed.

I can't find it on the Gigs and Sessions when was it aired? Also when was the early River Song recorded that is found among many other places on the California Feelin boot on brother? I ask because that was the last studio cut I heard where Dennis sounds clear.

Dennis did have polyp surgery several times. I don't know if these were there because of his injury's or just his lifestyle. Ed Roach said the procedures ultimately did not help Dennis because he was supposed to keep silent for extended periods and never would.

As far as Keith he wasn't too happy during the mid seventies when his addiction to herion was raging and he was facing the threat of a long term jail sentence. 
He did have a major event that changed him but it was his face not his voice. Look at footage from the 1978 Stones tour and before and then footage from his 1979 solo tour and after. He looks like a different person. This happened because in the fall of 1978 he stayed up ten days and fell face first asleep into a speaker. He crushed his nose and apparently some of his facial structure. He has talked about this in interviews. That along with him not combing his hair anymore really made a change.

On to his voice it is very different from what it was. Listen to Coming Down Again, or You Got The Silver. Really smooth singing. In the studio he sounded pretty good through 1979 or so. The last thing I heard him sound great on was We Had It All which was an outtake from Emotional Rescue. On stage the 1975 tour found him rough already, so I would say he gradually lost his range from 75-79.

...That's a bit astonishing, given what Karen got him into later!  What happened *there*?

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Again I could be wrong but from what I understand she found herion "chic" and looked down on cocaine.

I saw that one too!  They did the worst version ever of "Be True To Your School!"  I thought Dennis said "Dennis the menace."  Just goes to show you couldn't really understand what he was saying at that point...

I've heard a rumor that there are some recordings of Dennis in '82 where he sings and does OK.  I have not heard them and I don't know if it's true or not, but it's intriguing to say the least.

As far as his voice decline, I was shocked when I listened to PACIFIC OCEAN BLUE on the reissue and realized the quasi-falsetto part at the end of "Farewell My Friend" was Dennis' voice.

I'd give my arm to be able to see a copy of that show.  ;D

I long to hear Dennis' studio recording 1982, "Labor Day," but I probably never will. Adam, or anybody: Have your heard this??

I have a feeling Stebbins could weigh in with some great notes here...[nudge][nudge]

I haven't heard it.  All I heard from a few different people around the time of the PACIFIC OCEAN BLUE rerelease was that there was quite a bit of post-BAMBU Dennis material in private hands.  I was shocked to hear this, but it would be good news if true.  Stebbins would know more I am sure. 

Dennis' music of the eighties is kind of hard for me to picture. I get the feeling music became gradually less important the last 5 years.

The question that really pops up for me that I wish more people would ask is: how the hell did he make songs that good that fast? It's miraculous. How did he go from writing nothing to "Little Bird" and "Celebrate the News"? I swear, Brian had to be behind the scenes on some of those songs. We know he was involved in "Little Bird", but that's the only co-credit he'd have with Dennis. Eventually, it's obvious that Dennis came up with everything on his own, but I wonder on those early songs...

Kalinich, Jakobson (et al...) might wish to dispute that sweeping generalisation. I would also guess that Carl stepping up as a studio-hand (perhaps to the detriment of the development of his own writing) played a big part in helping Dennis realise the vision of his songs with the BBs. To me, the production is as much a part of the song as the written music/lyrics. Also, i'd imagine the joyfully incestuous nature of the BBs pulling together after Brian's decline contributed to the overall atmosphere (check out the credits for Sunflower). But this is just my opinion.

i have that show on vhs tape. i can make copies if anyone is interested. it sucks.....
just pm me.....

One thing everybody needs to get on board with is that were NO absolutes with Dennis. He was clean, he was addicted, he was healthy, he was burnt, he loved and hated Karen...and loved and hated Murry, and he had more than a little bit of talent that wasn't being featured as early as it could have been. Enigmatic...oh yeah.

MBE is right, there was a "chic" Hollywood heroin crowd that Karen ran with that absolutely looked down on cocaine users. She was embarrassed to recount that whole period to me, but she did, and admitted her drug etiquette thing was totally stupid. I was pretty stupid when I was 25 too, I can relate. But yeah there was a brief period '74 -'75 when Dennis went "clean"...less booze, more exercise and sleep. Lots of time recording his songs. Then Brother became more of a party place as things unraveled.

It is no fantasy that Dennis loved Karen, in fact its a joke to think otherwise...listen to those songs. He also knew she was poison, and probably more screwed up inside than him...that's saying something. Dennis poisoned himself in many ways, Karen was one poison that actually had some positive side effects. But to say there is no way it could have been this...or something couldn't be true because of that...is a tunnel vision view from a highly biased perspective. Dennis loved to compartmentalize his relationships. He told different people different things about different people. But when you take it all in...The truth is his thing with Karen was good, bad and everything in between.

It cracks me up to read Dada's post...expressing the conventional view...that Brian must have been behind the scenes pulling the strings because Dennis music was so good, it couldn't have been because Dennis was that good. How could Dennis have gone from nothing to stuff so good? Well, did you ever consider that maybe one of the reasons Brian's stuff was so good is that he had a significant amount of help and influence from his brothers? I know, I know, there is no way that idea is going to gain traction in this world. But I don't know why that point of view is never even considered. I think Brian was truly inspired by Dennis and guided by Carl much of the time. But that's just me. Also, Dennis was working on his own music much earlier than '68. Its just that no one was listening. There is evidence that Dennis was developing his own music as early as '65, seriously writing songs in '66, and recording in '67. So it seems natural that his stuff released in '68 would be relatively mature. Brian certainly influenced Dennis, and helped him quite a bit, Carl helped him more, influenced him less. But Brian and Dennis had one important  thing in common... they had the same giant river of artistic and spiritual ideas flowing from another realm and straight into their heads. What came out of them was different, Brian found a way to shape and craft that flow into something beautiful that everyone could relate to. Dennis just flung it out there, sometimes it was really sad, and scary, and sometimes it didn't make sense, or it was only bits of thoughts and sparks of ideas, he wasn't that concerned with making it palatable to the average person, he was more concerned with it being real, truthful, reflective of the absolute core of inspiration. There is a lot of Brian in Dennis' music, but it has much more to do with Brian being his brother, and his musical hero, than with Brian physically helping Dennis make music.

I hope all of you are having a great holiday season...Thanks for a wonderful year!

Well said Jon. I am glad I remembered what we had discussed accurately.

From 1961 until perhaps 1977 or so, the Beach Boys were a real group. Brian was one of a kind, but I feel they all had unique talent to one degree or another. If pressed I would say that Dennis was the only one to match or come close to Brian, but Carl, Al, Dave, Mike, Ricky, and Blondie, every one of them had something special going for them. There are always going to be people who have the Brian and five a-holes view, but I think the last ten years has seen a big reversal of that for people who study the facts and not the hyperbole. A lot of that is thanks to Jon really as the full roles David and Dennis played in the group was unknown until he published his books.

Thanks for the terrific post Jon. I still wonder, have you or anybody you know heard "Labor Day"? I can't even imagine what it sounds like.

Go ahead and laugh, but the proof is in the pudding, brother. First of all, Dennis and Carl were on the road constantly without Brian during the period ('65-'68) that Dennis began to blossom as a songwriter. Brian was writing largely without the possibility of Dennis being around and vice versa. Sure, they still spent time together, but it's not like Carl and Dennis were heavily involved in Brian's songwriting during this time. Carl was only an occasional presence during the sessions and Dennis was around even less, so how much could they really have learned? Enough that they could practically replicate Brian's sound on some of their first tries, completely without Brian?

Also, we have the fact that Brian was often dismissive of Dennis's musical ability. Brian putting down his brother in somewhat careless ways is documented both on tape from sessions and even in some interviews. Dennis was shy about his music and hesitant to share it with people at times,  from what we've heard. Were the two really that musically involved with each other during the songwriting process, also taking into consideration the above paragraph?

Then, we have Dennis's output on Friends. "Little Bird" borrows from "Child is Father of the Man" and has a fairly simplistic rhythmic basis,  while "Be Still" is simpler still. Then, all of a sudden, we have "Celebrate the News", with its epic psychedelic production. Now, maybe Dennis & Carl did it all on their own, it's possible, but I just don't think it's the most logical conclusion. I think that Dennis came up with the actual song on his own, but Brian helped put some of the finishing touches on it in the studio. There's no way for me to prove it, but that's my hunch. Now, by "Sunflower" I think Dennis & Carl did most of the work for their songs on their own. However, we have to remember that Brian was still a regular visitor to the studio at this point and he wrote a fair share of the music still. He had to have some input.  It just makes sense.

What can you hear in the session tapes of Brian putting down Dennis.

Any quotes you can share?

I talked to Brian about Dennis and had nothing but huge praise for his talents. I agree Brian was involved with playing or singing on many of Dennis' songs from the time, but they were still Dennis' babies. The Beach Boys worked very well as a group during most of the sixties, just like Dennis' voice added a lot to tracks like Girls On The Beach, Brian's voice added a lot to Forever etc. Still Girls On The Beach is a very Brian song and Forever is a very Dennis song. Dennis couldn't help but be inspired by Brian, but I say that of the original five Beach Boys (not counting Dave, Ricky, Bruce, or Blondie) Dennis was the only one to truly find his own voice.

I recall an interview, I have it on my hard drive but don't quite have the time right now to check which one, with Brian where the interviewer asked him what his favorite Dennis song was; and after saying "Little Bird" and "Forever" Brian added "and the one where he sang 'we'll never make the headlines of the evening news'" referring to "You and I" from POB. Quite a deep cut, and shows that Brian not only has heard and appreciated that LP, but he appreciated Dennis' work as well.

I'll post in a few days which interview that was..

You have to look at it this way - even if the rest of the band wasn't really writing songs at first, they were recording them and performing them and therefore hearing Brian's songs all the time. Celebrate the News is clearly inspired by Good Vibrations, which Dennis played organ on, meaning he was at the tracking sessions and the vocal sessions and probably heard Brian playing it on piano before they started recording and additionally Denny heard the song every night when he played it in concert, and it heard it at rehearsal when the band was going over the different parts. And that's just one song. Now imagine that with EVERY Beach Boys song, or even just the ones they played in concert. How many times do you think Dennis heard Wouldn't It Be Nice in the studio as they were recording it? How many times do you think the band rehearsed it?

Now imagine people like Carl, Al, and Bruce, who are playing melodic instruments, who played those chord changes every night, so much so that Brian-music became second nature to them. Or Carl and Dennis, who lived with Brian for 20+ years and heard every song he wrote and were taught piano by the same set of parents. Even Mike learned things, even if he didn't play an instrument, he sang the harmony parts, and he was immersed in the music of Brian Wilson just as long as Brian was - longer perhaps, because Brian didn't hear California Girls every night like Mike did.

I guess this is just a long winded way of saying that when you're in a band with someone, that person is one of your main influences whether you like it or not.

In my opinion, if you take the "Child is Father etc" off Little Bird, it's still a very good song. I'd like to know if it was Brian's or Dennis' idea, but one's dead and the other probably doesn't remember. About Brian helping Dennis.... It's possible, but Brian doesn't seem to be the kind of guy who'd offer to help anyone. He's always been in his little world. Now, if someone asks for it.... But can you picture Dennis doing it? He was probably anxious to get out of big brother's shadow.

False alarm-post replaced after better knowledge arrived...

Errrrr... no it's not, actually - Brian cut the basic track in late October 1974, but the vocals weren't added until the 15 Big Ones sessions in 1976 (Badman says June 26th, which would be a good trick as the album had been assembled & mastered on May 18th !!).

I have to think Badman's date must refer to preparation of that track for the single release...they sped it up by 1% or 2%, so maybe that's what they did on that day, instead of actual "recording".

Dammit... why didn't I think of that ?

Dennis' sudden blooming never seemed surprising to me.  In the music world, you will from time to time run into, for lack of a better word, these savant-like people who are just born creative.  I don't mean they're in any way stupid, I mean that they're naturally talented in the idea realm from the word go, without any real technical ability.  Dennis seems like one of those people and as he acquired technical ability (which he seems to have made a concerted effort to around '66), he could channel that creativity and get it on tape.  The seeming suddenness of his development probably stems from him getting those tools together.  Once you can play the piano, you can arrange just about anything, and it's also a stepping stone to being able to play nearly any other instrument.

To put it another way:  when I'm touring I'll get CDs given me by "baby bands" all the time.  Usually they all fall into some predictably categories, and generally pretty mediocre, but now and then you'll get someone who can't really play or sing but everything they do has a certain spark to it.  They're just tapped into something, even if they don't know how to translate it.

The idea that Dennis couldn't cut it in the studio without his brothers' help is nonsense, although I'm sure he got plenty of it and was happy to have it.  We have the story of Dennis coming in to a Rick Henn session around '69 (someone else would know the date) and coming up with some very inventive production and arrangement ideas on the song, for example.

Dennis had unusual talent, but for an "untrained" musician to blossom like that isn't that uncommon.  You just don't hear of them as much because usually people like that never get good enough technically to break through to the mainstream...but it happens all the time.   When folks like that do acquired the skills they need to get their music to the masses...look out.  Those are often our greatest artists.

Well said, Adam. 

I'll second that.   

Strangely, his voice doesn't seem that catastrophic during the Cocaine Sessions. He can be heard after Brian's enthusiastic rambling following "I Feel So Fine" saying something like, "yeah, nice piano". That was late 1981, wasn't it?

I heard an amusing anecdote once which I don't remember in exact detail but the gist was
that someone ran into Dennis unexpectedly at a bar in the late '70s and asked him what he
had been up to. "BEEN DRUMMIN'!" he answered in a manic, intoxicated fashion.

Poor guy. At least he lived large. R.I.P. :-D :'(

Don't you get it Adam? Dennis was the no-talent drummer... as Brian said he's not even a drummer he's just "a clubber"... now Brian on the other hand, he had no influences or no help from anybody... he was just born like that... it was just a God-given gift...

But seriously, it amazes me how people can think that Dennis couldn't have done this or that... why not? As Jon has pointed out, he didn't just go from NOTHING to "Little Bird" etc.. he had been learning the piano from his mum at an early age and later with Bruce in 66 (right?), he had been writing and recording stuff beforehand and no doubt he had watched Brian at work in the studio producing... there's a Carol Kaye quote (I think it was her anyway) in I think the Real Beach Boy book saying that Dennis would sometimes just come in for 15 minutes or so and watch what Brian was doing... and I am of the opinion that he was a quick learner... not saying he went from nothing to Brian's level at producing overnight, but he no doubt was observing what Brian was doing. And of course he also saw Brian produce plenty of vocal sessions as he was there himself!! But I'm with you 100% Adam, some people just have this thing where they are born creative... I remember one of my friends once saying that every good musician/songwriter etc.. MUST have been trained and have studied music, he just couldn't accept that there are people who had very little training who turn out to be really gifted composers/musicians etc...

I'm not saying Dennis had NO help on Little Bird or any of his songs/productions... who knows, maybe Brian or someone else wrote/arranged/produced/sung/played EVERYTHING and we just don't know it ::)... but it's funny how some people can think that someone like Brian can do ANYTHING and yet they think that other people can't do anything... "oh no, he couldn't have written those lyrics" or something like that.

I guess, officially, we lost Dennis' voice, twenty-five years ago today....

How sad......