*Merged* Brian Wilson current album thread

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

  I wouldnt be surprised if Brian either heard some cds given to him by the label...or maybe heard some stuff played to him by his younger children and became familiar that way.

I would be stunned.

i think the latter though is quite likely...

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

KittyKat -- You don't have the slightest clue about how journalism works. Don't act like you do, and don't lecture people about it, because it only reveals the not-inconsiderable depths of your ignorance.

It is entirely appropriate to try to contact sources through the ways they're reachable. Van Dyke is very active on Twitter. There's nothing wrong about someone reaching out to VDP in that manner. His reaction has nothing to do with how he's approached, and everything to do with the fact he's on the outs with the BW camp these days.

As for you not believing what Fine writes about the origin of the album, what you say about him is actually libelous. Don't accuse journalists of fabricating things. We take that very seriously, and Fine's piece is quite carefully written. What he actually says is this:

"But last year he got the idea to bring in guest singers to finish the songs."

Fine doesn't say what guest singers. He could just as well be referring to Al and Blondie.

"Wilson had loved working with female vocalists since his early Beach Boys days, when he'd moonlight producing tracks for girl groups like the Honeys, which featured his first wife, Marilyn Rovell."

Nothing wrong there.

"He invited some of his favorite young singers to Ocean Way studios in Hollywood, including Lana Del Rey, Kacey Musgraves and Zooey Deschanel."

Again, Fine doesn't state that Brian knew who they were before this project began, or that he'd been buying their albums for years. He only says that these were some folks that he liked. It's possible that Universal gave him a stack of CDs to listen to and tell them which label mates he wanted on the record.

Now, there are some implications in the piece that may be a stretch, or that people might take the wrong way. But that doesn't mean it's not accurate, and it's most certainly not fabricated.

Wirestone, why are you attacking me personally? And why are you so butt-offended by what someone else says? I don't take back a single word of what I said. Not a word of it is libelous.  Wow, talk about over-sensitive.

Accusing someone of fabrication IS libelous.

The poster merely said they didn't believe the article!

Go ahead and take them to court on that.

Call Mike. He knows some good lawyers.

[alf wiedersehen]

Has this really devolved into an argument about journalism?
Isn't there still some stuff about Zooey Deschanel you guys want to bicker about?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Accusing someone of fabrication IS libelous.

Personally I don't know either way but I am very skeptical that this is the case (have to word that properly lest I'm accused of libel!  ). Think how many people would be criminals for questioning the authenticity of a news story.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I was skeptical,  too, until something recent forced me to quickly rethink that.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

KittyKat -- You don't have the slightest clue about how journalism works. Don't act like you do, and don't lecture people about it, because it only reveals the not-inconsiderable depths of your ignorance.

It is entirely appropriate to try to contact sources through the ways they're reachable. Van Dyke is very active on Twitter. There's nothing wrong about someone reaching out to VDP in that manner. His reaction has nothing to do with how he's approached, and everything to do with the fact he's on the outs with the BW camp these days.

As for you not believing what Fine writes about the origin of the album, what you say about him is actually libelous. Don't accuse journalists of fabricating things. We take that very seriously, and Fine's piece is quite carefully written. What he actually says is this:

"But last year he got the idea to bring in guest singers to finish the songs."

Fine doesn't say what guest singers. He could just as well be referring to Al and Blondie.

"Wilson had loved working with female vocalists since his early Beach Boys days, when he'd moonlight producing tracks for girl groups like the Honeys, which featured his first wife, Marilyn Rovell."

Nothing wrong there.

"He invited some of his favorite young singers to Ocean Way studios in Hollywood, including Lana Del Rey, Kacey Musgraves and Zooey Deschanel."

Again, Fine doesn't state that Brian knew who they were before this project began, or that he'd been buying their albums for years. He only says that these were some folks that he liked. It's possible that Universal gave him a stack of CDs to listen to and tell them which label mates he wanted on the record.

Now, there are some implications in the piece that may be a stretch, or that people might take the wrong way. But that doesn't mean it's not accurate, and it's most certainly not fabricated.

Wirestone, why are you attacking me personally? And why are you so butt-offended by what someone else says? I don't take back a single word of what I said. Not a word of it is libelous.  Wow, talk about over-sensitive.

Accusing someone of fabrication IS libelous.

The poster merely said they didn't believe the article!

Go ahead and take them to court on that.

Call Mike. He knows some good lawyers.

  wasn't necessarily referring to this specific post but rather pointing out that directly stating a journalist is fabricating an article is indeed libelous, and indeed there is legal precedence.  Wouldn't apply in this case because it wasn't worded like that.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I think if the accusation seriously worked to harm someone's reputation, there might be a case for it. But that's not what's happening here. And to be honest, I don't really think you are accusing someone of fabrication if you simply say, "I don't believe some of the things he wrote."

[KittyKat]

KittyKat -- You don't have the slightest clue about how journalism works. Don't act like you do, and don't lecture people about it, because it only reveals the not-inconsiderable depths of your ignorance.

It is entirely appropriate to try to contact sources through the ways they're reachable. Van Dyke is very active on Twitter. There's nothing wrong about someone reaching out to VDP in that manner. His reaction has nothing to do with how he's approached, and everything to do with the fact he's on the outs with the BW camp these days.

As for you not believing what Fine writes about the origin of the album, what you say about him is actually libelous. Don't accuse journalists of fabricating things. We take that very seriously, and Fine's piece is quite carefully written. What he actually says is this:

"But last year he got the idea to bring in guest singers to finish the songs."

Fine doesn't say what guest singers. He could just as well be referring to Al and Blondie.

"Wilson had loved working with female vocalists since his early Beach Boys days, when he'd moonlight producing tracks for girl groups like the Honeys, which featured his first wife, Marilyn Rovell."

Nothing wrong there.

"He invited some of his favorite young singers to Ocean Way studios in Hollywood, including Lana Del Rey, Kacey Musgraves and Zooey Deschanel."

Again, Fine doesn't state that Brian knew who they were before this project began, or that he'd been buying their albums for years. He only says that these were some folks that he liked. It's possible that Universal gave him a stack of CDs to listen to and tell them which label mates he wanted on the record.

Now, there are some implications in the piece that may be a stretch, or that people might take the wrong way. But that doesn't mean it's not accurate, and it's most certainly not fabricated.

Wirestone, why are you attacking me personally? And why are you so butt-offended by what someone else says? I don't take back a single word of what I said. Not a word of it is libelous.  Wow, talk about over-sensitive.

Accusing someone of fabrication IS libelous.

Jason wrote about Brian's album last fall, and never mentioned any guest artists besides Al, Blondie, Dave, and Jeff Beck.  If it's such big news now, you would think he would have mentioned it back then, nor did he mention any plans of contemporary recording artists being part of the album if names had not yet been decided upon at that point.  There is also the aspect of calling all those guest artists Brian's "favorite" artists. There  is a huuge stretch between "well, , maybe Brian heard them through his kids, and maybe he might have liked them more than some of their other mp3s" to their being his "favorite" artists.  Every time Brian has been asked about what music he likes to listen to, it's always either Phil Spector, the Beatles, or some old act or other Michael McDonald is about as contemporary as it gets. He listens to oldies and big band radio stations. Is it likely that has changed recently? I seriously doubt it. I'd like to see Jason produce some direct quotes from Brian as to what favorite tracks and albums he likes to repeatedly listen to from those guest artists, yet there are no direct quotes from Brian in that article as to what he knows or feels about those artists. The only quote Brian gave in a previous article referred to Lana without knowing her last name.

As to the Van Dyke thing, doesn't it behoove him to speak to such an important source himself and not delegate that, whether Twitter is used or not? So many people here get into arguments as to why "Smile" fell apart. It's a pretty important part of Brian's story, and therefore the principal author ought to be talking to such a vital source himself, IMO, not his assistant. That doesn't make me co-called "ignorant" of journalism to say that (BTW, I also was a broadcast journalism major in college, have a BA in it, and have done a little bit of freelance journalism myself, along with having a family member who does it full time).   I'm sure Jason is busy hanging out with Brian and also doing other work for Rolling Stone and Men's Health as his usual gig, but Van Dyke is someone worth taking time for. I could see using an assistant to gather background info or do interviews with more minor figures.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Yeah, i completely misread the initial post, and was just responding/ adding to what Wirestone posted. Thought the original post from Kitty accused Fine of fabrication,  which is why i responded the way i did.  When i realized my error, i left it the way it was because what i said was still a true and factual statement (i know from firsthand experience).

[JohnMill]

Damn. Do you people ever just be glad that he's alive and still making new music? That is what we should talk about. Not all this feuding crap. This place is turning into the FECC forum. That place is full of negative argumentative people. Don't turn into that place. Don't ruin this place. Not many forums are good as this one. Please keep it that way.

I think you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater here.  I would wager that almost everyone on this forum is glad that Brian Wilson is still alive and creating music.  Many of us were around during the dark days when in Wilson's world, "SMiLE" was a dirty word and it seemed that his career would be forever stuck in neutral.  To see how far he has come since that time is nothing short of amazing.

As for the forum itself, with all due respect it's been that way for a long time.  At least as long as I've been here.  That doesn't necessarily mean it's an absolute drag to come on here and discuss music.  On the contrary, when confined to a specific topic that has absolutely nothing to do with the interpersonal relationships of the individual band members or the direction of their respective (or collective) careers, this place can be an absolute joy and a goldmine of information on The Beach Boys.

The rather contentious nature of this forum arises when hot button issues are broached such as the ones I referenced above which many people on here are extremely passionate (some to the point of obsession) regarding their side of the argument.  That isn't going to change because to muzzle these folks in any way would do more in my opinion to harm the forum than in any way enhance it.  

Bottom Line: The passionate arguments are likely to continue.  If you don't like reading the spirited back and forth debates, glean the necessary information you can from the topic that is being argued (in the case of this thread that would be the information on Brian Wilson's upcoming record) before moving onto another less contentious thread.  

[KittyKat]

Yeah, i completely misread the initial post, and was just responding/ adding to what Wirestone posted. Thought the original post from Kitty accused Fine of fabrication,  which is why i responded the way i did.  When i realized my error, i left it the way it was because what i said was still a true and factual statement (i know from firsthand experience).

Okay, I agree "fabricate" may be too strong a word, and will go back and edit the original post.

[Dave in KC]

May I note that not a single person on this board has heard more than a 10-second iPhone clip from this album?

... Apparently not.

Brian Wilson is not perfect, but he's no idiot. He can still write, arrange, sing and play. He's making a new record, and hopefully it will have some good tunes on it. He's worked with some younger singers, and folks involved feel positively about how the project is evolving (including folks from the outside like Ray Lawlor and Don Was, who have nothing to gain by lying to fans about a record's quality). So what is the problem?

It's going to be a splashy record, with big-name guests, released to coincide with a movie and book. It's a 21st-century multimedia extravaganza. It's why someone like Joe is still involved (making trains run on time), and why Brian still has a major-label deal. So I look forward to rolling with it and seeing what happens.

Well I think that is the way to approach it ; roll with it and see what happens; I think you have captured the essence of it.  See if there is stuff there that hits you.  I have heard the whole thing , and can only give you my opinion. I think that for the core fan base there are 7-8 tracks that I would consider "no brainers" ; "Sail Away" kind of reminds me of "Sloop John B" ; lead vocal's by Brian, Al and Blondie , swapping off ; background vocals are great; there are two tracks with rotating lead vocals of Brian and Al which I think are great. There is a ballad sung by Brian that , in my opinion , can be placed with anything he has done (except "SMiLE) ; one track has a jazz feel , with great harmonies; the remake of "Summer Means New Love' is one of my favorites; I always loved the melody of that track;  Brian decided he wanted to sing it so now its a vocal piece , with lead by Brian , and Brian and Al in the chorus; I had read somewhere on the board that this sounded like it could be a "vapid remake " or some such description.....wrong. There is a track that would fit right in with the three part suite that ends TWGMTR, but is definitely not part of it....then there is "Last Song" ...two versions are cut ; one with lead vocal by Lana Del Ray and one with lead vocal by Brian....I find them both essential, and hope the Brian lead sees daylight.   The guest artists ; well I am sure that there will be controversy here ; I love "On the Island" and I was prepared to really dislike the Kacey Musgraves track , simply because I am not big on country.  The track itself reminds me of " I got Plenty Of Nothin" from BWRG; and I really like the song, and her performance. "Saturday Night on Hollywood Blvd." is a gas. There are a few more, and I like each and every one of them. The songs are great on this record ; my opinion , and so are all the performances, both lead and background vocals.  What I can tell, by what I heard, is that there are a few backgrounds that are Brian stacked; the rest are Brian, Al, Matt and Jeff Foskett; I believe. .....so there is a very different sound to this record, than any other Brian solo record. There are four legitimate Beach Boys on this record;  Brian , Al, David and Blondie; I think they all sound great, and that is good enough for me.  But if none of that is "your thing "(not you personally, figure of speech) , and the guest artist participation offends your sensibilities, what can I say other than don't buy the goshdarn record !

Am I missing something?   Sail Away is a VDP song. Why no chatter about that? I love that song.

Dave....its newly written by BW....same title as the VDP song

I wonder what Van Dyke thinks about that?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I wonder what Van Dyke thinks about that?

Maybe he thinks about it the same way his buddy Randy Newman thinks about Van Dyke's song.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Yeah, i completely misread the initial post, and was just responding/ adding to what Wirestone posted. Thought the original post from Kitty accused Fine of fabrication,  which is why i responded the way i did.  When i realized my error, i left it the way it was because what i said was still a true and factual statement (i know from firsthand experience).

Okay, I agree "fabricate" may be too strong a word, and will go back and edit the original post.

Cool...thanks.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I wonder what Van Dyke thinks about that?

Maybe he thinks about it the same way his buddy Randy Newman thinks about Van Dyke's song.

Thankfully song titles are not really copyrightable!

I wonder which song with that title affected Brian more...he sang on the VDP song, but it was supposedly the Newman song that inspired Mt. Vernon and Fairway.

[Dave in KC]

I wonder what Van Dyke thinks about that?

Maybe he thinks about it the same way his buddy Randy Newman thinks about Van Dyke's song.

Thankfully song titles are not really copyrightable!

I wonder which song with that title affected Brian more...he sang on the VDP song, but it was supposedly the Newman song that inspired Mt. Vernon and Fairway.

Thank you Starscream. You learn something new about the BB here everyday!

[PhilSpectre]

I wonder what Van Dyke thinks about that?

Maybe he thinks about it the same way his buddy Randy Newman thinks about Van Dyke's song.

And the same way the great Noel Coward would feel too, I guess, as he wrote a song of the same name way before Parks,  Newman or Brian 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

As acrimonious as the BB are,  they have nothing on Stone Temple Pilots, who tried to sue former singer Scott Weiland from singing STP songs in his solo shows...which is ludicrous as he cowrote them!

[Matt Etherton]

I have rarely posted here: it's a very sad & depressing place some times! For me, The Beach Boys were/are about surfing, cars, girls, summer, and good times. The introspective stuff too of course. It's sad that there is so much acrimony between fans, let alone the band members. Nothing good comes of arguing moot points between each other! If you use the mind set that what is truly "The Beach Boys" ended in 1998, it would be much easier to accept what is current. (We all should have known-and were told-2012 was a very limited thing.) Just my thoughts...

[The Shift]

Sooner this album is out the better.

[puni puni]

Has this really devolved into an argument about journalism?

The bigger picture is how much these short-sighted, conflict-of-interest press kits dressed up as 'journalism' will snowball into certified revisionism. So far, Wilson PR saw fit to fabricate a petulant response to supposed fan hate. What else of Wilson has been a falsehood contrived by Wilson PR? How much else will be? An autobiography is a self-proclaimed historic text. It's supposed to answer questions, not create them. Some would think that lying is immoral.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Why single outBrian's people? Right or wrong this is standard practice in press releases.  Now, if it starts getting out of the realm of bias and into the land of personal attacks that are out and out false, you'd best believe sh*t will hit the fan. Hasnt gotten there.

[puni puni]

For me, The Beach Boys were/are about surfing, cars, girls, summer, and good times. The introspective stuff too of course.

For me, the group's natural approach to music is an inimitable zenith of recorded sound, and watching what I consider to be the most genuine contributions to Western song, noise, and phonography reduced to carefully crafted, 53-year-old marketing abstractions like 'cars' or 'good times' is abhorrent. At least we should be thankful to live in a land of contrasts.

Why single outBrian's people?

They're the most transparent.

Quite literally so, in fact.

[Shady]

A lot of people who defend Brian's singing instantly point to the Disney album in his defence

Well if you want to hear brian singing as good as he ever has look no further than "what love can do". Truly One of Brian's most underated songs beach boys or solo. Beautiful vocals, you can tell he was enjoying singing that song

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Some of the C50 tour footage too. After a somewhat shaky start, at the show i went to had some if his best singing ive heard him do since the early 70s, especially on I Just Wasn't Made for these T i mes