BW & Band: private show @ House of Blues, Dallas (October 12th 2012)

[KittyKat]

Com'on. That's such a blanket statement.

A clever setlist with some pre-publicity in certain markets, and you'll be able to sell your modest sized theaters. If you wanna, that is. I've been there, have you? I haven't seen an embarrassing sea of empty seats. That being said, I'm talking something akin to his early years of touring when he played large clubs and old vaudeville theaters - talkin' 1,000 seaters.

I've heard a few theaters had some seas if empty seats during the TLOS tour. I'd think an oldies tour would sell close to what M & B, if correctly marketed and packaged, as you say.  He did two nights at the Hollywood Bowl advertised as an oldies only gig and I read that sold pretty well. In his hometown, which is a good market for him.

[Lonely Summer]

Ive passed on seeing some of Brian's solo shows because I wasn't interested in hearing yet another live attempt at Barbara Ann, Help Me  Rhonda and California Girls by Brian and his band. If they did a show spotlighting more of his solo stuff, I'd be there! So many great songs they've never even attempted live - Melt Away, Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight, Rio Grande, or for that matter, any Orange Crate Art material.

[Jonathan Blum]

Because Brian's not authorized to promote his band as "the Beach Boys"; he DID, however, vote to authorize Michael to promote his band as "the Beach Boys".  Just saying. For all of the malarkey about "WHY CAN'T THEY GO ON?!?!", this has received a rather...muted response. I know that double standards are something to be proud of in the Brianista world, but...

So it's exactly identical, except for the bit that's completely different.  Yeah, hell of a double standard, there.

And again -- Brian doing solo gigs in between continuing gigs with the Beach Boys would be no more of an issue for people than when he was doing it around 1988.  Because no one sent out a press release saying that the group was ditching members, with no sign of them ever playing with the group again.

Regards,
Jon Blum

[Cam Mott]

True, Brian's people asked Mike's people to do that for Brian.

[STE]

So what was the setlist?

[EgoHanger1966]

It's on Page 3 of this thread.

[Wirestone]

True, Brian's people asked Mike's people to do that for Brian.

They did not. They asked specifically that Mike inform the markets that he and Bruce were playing in that the band was not the fully reunited group. There's a world of difference between that and what Mike actually did, which was seeming to slam the door on any attempt to keep the full lineup viable in the future.

[Cam Mott]

First you have to believe only Brian's press release. Otherwise that's what Mike did except not slamming the door on the future which is just an opinion of a few fans based on something not said as far as I can tell.

[Jonathan Blum]

First you have to believe only Brian's press release. Otherwise that's what Mike did except not slamming the door on the future which is just an opinion of a few fans based on something not said as far as I can tell.

No, you can believe both Brian's and Mike's statements, and recognize that the difference between the two of them is down to poor communication.  Which in turn resulted in a disastrously worded press release which gave far more than "a few fans" the impression that the reunion lineup is over and done for good -- hence their followup statements.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Cam Mott]

First you have to believe only Brian's press release. Otherwise that's what Mike did except not slamming the door on the future which is just an opinion of a few fans based on something not said as far as I can tell.

No, you can believe both Brian's and Mike's statements, and recognize that the difference between the two of them is down to poor communication.  Which in turn resulted in a disastrously worded press release which gave far more than "a few fans" the impression that the reunion lineup is over and done for good -- hence their followup statements.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

OK, we only disagree on "disastrously" and "few".

[Cabinessenceking]

I've always wondered what makes people want to hear California Girls again and again and again... I mean, I'm a pathological Love You listener, but that doesnt really scale with the general public ALWAYS wanting California Girls. It's like they would riot if it wasnt included. Would be great if Brian did some tours featuring his best Pet Sounds, Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, Love You and solo material like Rio Grande and Melt Away. He has tonnes of good stuff which is not really Beach Boys associated music. Guess people just want Cal Girls. I'll bet if Lennon were alive he wouldnt be touring 'I Want To Hold Your Hand'....

Maybe Brian could focus a tour featuring HIS music and touring some of the more cultural cities in America and Europe, I'm sure he would gain an audience without CalGirls having to be in the setlist. Certainly not the god-aweful Little Deuce Coupe!

[hypehat]

Because California Girls is bloody amazing. I would be miffed if they didn't play it when I saw them.

Like, I'd maybe understand if you phrased that as 'why doesn't Brian/Mike/Bruce/Al etc unleash a bloodrending primal scream at those opening bars when they play it live' your point would make sense but an audience want to hear that song, because it's a great song and because they are fans of the band who perform that song.

What's the problem?


Also, the blinding hole in your argument - Brian really likes California Girls and he wants to play it. Duh.

[Amy B.]

I've always wondered what makes people want to hear California Girls again and again and again... I mean, I'm a pathological Love You listener, but that doesnt really scale with the general public ALWAYS wanting California Girls. It's like they would riot if it wasnt included. Would be great if Brian did some tours featuring his best Pet Sounds, Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, Love You and solo material like Rio Grande and Melt Away. He has tonnes of good stuff which is not really Beach Boys associated music. Guess people just want Cal Girls. I'll bet if Lennon were alive he wouldnt be touring 'I Want To Hold Your Hand'....

Maybe Brian could focus a tour featuring HIS music and touring some of the more cultural cities in America and Europe, I'm sure he would gain an audience without CalGirls having to be in the setlist. Certainly not the god-aweful Little Deuce Coupe!

God awful? California Girls and Little Deuce Coupe are NOT Kokomo. They're really well constructed pop songs, particularly CA Girls. I agree with your sentiment for some of the more obscure stuff. I'd love to see Rio Grande live. But in the shows I've seen the biggest response has been to the songs like CA Girls, Dance Dance Dance, etc. Remember when Brian and his band did I'd Love Just Once to See You? Great! But I think the response was a lot less enthusiastic, because that song is not as well known. Plus, it doesn't rock in a concert setting, so even diehards are apt to just sit and listen. Brian Wilson is not Lennon. He can't fill a theater, and he's not a dynamic performer. In some ways, the songs are the performer here, and he needs to pick the ones that get the best response. That said, I would love if he would do a set of REALLY obscure stuff along with the hits in one show.

[filledeplage]

True, Brian's people asked Mike's people to do that for Brian.

They did not. They asked specifically that Mike inform the markets that he and Bruce were playing in that the band was not the fully reunited group. There's a world of difference between that and what Mike actually did, which was seeming to slam the door on any attempt to keep the full lineup viable in the future.

Wirestone - In the olden days, one could put an ad in the print media or on the local TV or radio and it would be targeted to inform ONLY that select market.  Now, almost everything is electronic and what was "local" is "global" in an instant. 

And, stepping back, I looked at C50 as a "window" of time, finite in design, and not a "door" to a permanent state of affairs.  And they would all go back to "status quo ante" after the window of performances.  I saw no slamming doors.  It was clear and unambiguous.  Mike went over and above the original "50 1st Dates" (sorry, I could not resist.) 

More than one party had the need for that info. The venues, the ticket holders, media, etc. 

There are none so blind as those who will not see.  How this proceeds will likely stem from negotiating how they will take it from here. 

[Nicko1234]

I've heard a few theaters had some seas if empty seats during the TLOS tour. I'd think an oldies tour would sell close to what M & B, if correctly marketed and packaged, as you say.  He did two nights at the Hollywood Bowl advertised as an oldies only gig and I read that sold pretty well. In his hometown, which is a good market for him.

The tickets for Brian`s shows tend to be a lot more expensive though.

Personally if I had a choice to watch a greatest hits show then I would choose to see M&B perform those songs out of the two bands. I get the feeling that they want to be performing the hits whereas Brian is forced into it from time to time. Plus many of the Mike leads don`t suit Brian as well as other songs.

[AndrewHickey]

Personally if I had a choice to watch a greatest hits show then I would choose to see M&B perform those songs out of the two bands. I get the feeling that they want to be performing the hits whereas Brian is forced into it from time to time. Plus many of the Mike leads don`t suit Brian as well as other songs.

Absolutely. When Brian's band do an 'artier' show (for example the June 2002 tour, where they did the whole of Pet Sounds, six songs from Smile, songs from Friends and Love You and so on) they're the best band in the world. As good as, say, Mike, Bruce and David's 2008 tour was (where they did a 53-song set very similar to the reunion tour setlists, but with a few more rarities like Til I Die thrown in), Brian's band are simply better at that material.

But if you compare both bands doing a meat-and-potatoes churn-out-the-hits set, Mike's band wins. They play the songs with more enthusiasm, and you don't really need the subtlety that Brian's band is capable of if you're playing Surfin' USA.

The reunion shows were definitely the best of both worlds, but solo, Brian's band and show simply isn't cut out for an oldies market the way Mike's is -- and I don't think his band would want to play that.

[BB Universe]

We (meaning myself and several friends who get together and see M&B, BW, BB etc. whenever any of those perform nearby) view M&B as a "sing along" type show - ie. go, have a good time, hear the standards and sing along; while with BW we are more likely to sit and watch the main part of the show because its usually been something more novel (BWPS; BWPPS; Gershwin etc.) or the song list has the more intricate and "artsy" songs, until he does the set with the standards that one just has to stand up and sing/dance to. Nothing wrong with either; like them both. Always a satisfied customer after either show.

[HeyJude]

Jude is passionate about the band (as I am) but there comes a time when you gotta throw in the towel and say, "They're gonna do what they wanna do and we can't do anything about it".

Oh every single one of us is passionate about the band and I completely understand how this subject can get people revved up.  This place is meant for us to discuss these things for as long as we want but how many more different threads do people want to drag the conversation back to all this again?  People are regurgitating the same stuff as if trying to "win" an argument or "convert" people to help people finally "get it" and see things their way.  In my book, everybody is right regarding this subject.  But at the end of the day: we can't do a damn thing about the situation.

Like you said, at one point you have to throw in the towel and accept that at the end of these "discussions" there is nothing but a dead end.  A big, tall dead end. 

I will grant that the whole discussion has and continues to be beaten to death. But it's on-topic, and that's what discussion boards are supposed to be. I can only speak for myself, but I'm not frustrated or irate or anything of that nature, I'm enjoying the (sometimes) evolving discussion. But if everybody's done, then the discussion will die out. No problems as far as I'm concerned. 

I find numerous posts discussing solely how *other* posts are clogging up the board to be kind of ironic. Then the "this discussion is going nowhere" posts start taking up space and adding to the monotony. 

[HeyJude]

What is kind of strange about this is how left-field it seems. Actually, if Brian's people hadn't posted that rehearsal picture to facebook, we wouldn't have even found out until like a day after the damn thing actually happened.

To me it makes Brian and Al's post-C50 responses seem even more BS-ey. Maybe its just me.

I think it might be.

Once someone takes the ball and goes home so to speak, whatever anyone else does in reaction to that is just that, a reaction.

[HeyJude]

And, stepping back, I looked at C50 as a "window" of time, finite in design, and not a "door" to a permanent state of affairs.  And they would all go back to "status quo ante" after the window of performances.  I saw no slamming doors.  It was clear and unambiguous. 

I think the evidence suggests, whether warranted or justified, it was not clear and unambigous to a lot of people, both inside and outside of the band. Howie Edelson mentioned he asked around about what would happen after the tour, and the response seemed to be very much ambiguity.

That's always how I looked at "C50." I remember thinking before it started that it would be interesting to see what would happen after the scheduled tour dates, both in terms of what was "likely" to happen, versus "possible", versus what I or any fan would want to happen.

[filledeplage]

And, stepping back, I looked at C50 as a "window" of time, finite in design, and not a "door" to a permanent state of affairs.  And they would all go back to "status quo ante" after the window of performances.  I saw no slamming doors.  It was clear and unambiguous. 

I think the evidence suggests, whether warranted or justified, it was not clear and unambigous to a lot of people, both inside and outside of the band. Howie Edelson mentioned he asked around about what would happen after the tour, and the response seemed to be very much ambiguity.

That's always how I looked at "C50." I remember thinking before it started that it would be interesting to see what would happen after the scheduled tour dates, both in terms of what was "likely" to happen, versus "possible", versus what I or any fan would want to happen.

In the absence of some formal announcement, as a result of a "meeting of the minds" as to a material change in circumstances, this C50 would probably be construed as a special "event" with a particularized purpose.  It was pretty clear.  (To me)  It was discussed as a final thing.  There is only one final event.  Death.  So, maybe, where there is "life, there could be hope."

And, I like to think of it as an "all star team" culled from the working bands, and then back to the Red Sox, Dodgers or Yankees!   Notwithstanding the fact, that the "all stars" used to be the "only game in town." Now, we have three entities.

Wishing it was different, won't make it so. All the moaning online won't change it either. When the band members have a "meeting of the minds" then things could change.  It is their business.  And it may happen, or there could be some hybrid arrangement.   

[Nicko1234]

Probably covering old ground here but because Brian has a tendency to change his mind (and I`m not trying to pin blame on him), it must make it tough for other people to plan around him.

It was his original intention that the album would be called Summer`s Gone and would signal the end. He then changed his mind.
It was then the intention that the tour would run for 50 dates. He then changed his mind.
It was then the intention that they would do 25 more. He then wanted to add to that.

Obviously going back in time he probably did intend never to play with Mike or Al again (although he obviously just says anything to get through interviews). He changed his mind about that too.

I`m sure that Mike feels that he has done everything that he agreed to and more...

[ontor pertawst]

Yeah, but Mike feels like he's capable of levitation. All parties are pretty nuts here. ESPECIALLY Al Jardine.

[Heywood]

So many great songs they've never even attempted live - Melt Away, Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight, Rio Grande, or for that matter, any Orange Crate Art material.

Brian from 2002 (pre Smile)

1. You're Welcome
2. Sail On Sailor
3. Dance Dance Dance
4. In My Room
5. I Get Around
6. Don't Worry Baby
7. Good Timin'
8. California Girls
9. Please Let Me Wonder
10. Sloop John B
11. Your Imagination
12. Keep An Eye On Summer
13. Melt Away 14. Meant For You
15. Friends
16. Forever
17. Busy Doin' Nothin'
18. Darlin'
19. Wouldn't It Be Nice
20. God Only Knows
21. Let's Go Away For Awhile
22. Pet Sounds
without telling Brian) 23. Wonderful
24. Cabinessence
25. Our Prayer
26. Heroes And Villians (Cantina Version)
27. Marcella
28. Do It Again
29. Good Vibrations

Encore 1: 30. Little Saint Nick
31. Surfer Girl
32. Barbara Ann
33. Help Me Rhonda
34. Surfin' USA
35. Fun, Fun, Fun

Encore 2:
36. Love & Mercy

pretty cool setlist

[EgoHanger1966]

That is a solid set list. Is there a shoearm version floating around anywhere?