Dennis and the ultimatum?

[KittyKat]

Brian showing more balls?  The guy was a shambles.  He still is, particularly when it comes to any type of confrontation.  All that article is is confusion.  I'm not sure what the whole thing was about from reading it.  It had something to do with the contract with CBS Records, so it could be the record company was putting pressure on the band, too.  They were given a guarantee of millions of dollars and didn't the president of the company say that famous "we've been f'd" line when presented with the first album of the contract?  The Loves didn't seem to be united because Mike no longer was being managed by Steve Love at that point, but others in the group were.  I'm not sure I"d count on Dennis as being the voice of reason, either, given his history.  Carl was a mess at the time.  Brian was a mess.  Al was probably just confused and couldn't count on anyone, since he wasn't a member of the family.  They wound up not breaking up, so whatever it was, it blew over.

[Dove Nested Towers]

POB allegedly did not sit too well with Brian Wilson

Brian might actually be the album's biggest fan, he loved it more than Dennis probably did.

Considering Brian has said he's never heard it at certain times, I'd hardly say he's the album's biggest fan.

Where and when has Brian ever said anything positive about POB? What did he specifically say (not what do we vaguely think he might have said, what did he say) I'm not disputing he's praised POB, i just can't remember ever hearing or reading him having said anything about it at all and i'd be interested to hear his thoughts....

1977..crawdaddy interview lp with brian by pete fornatale...
pete.."dennis has a solo lp coming out, does he not?"
brian--"yes he does. it's a good..i heard some of the cuts...down at the studio between beach boy sessions he said "hey brian come here i want you to hear this". he played it for me. i said dennis that's funky..that's FUNKYYYYY. you know i said hey that's good..i like it, it's great..it's good good work. your gonna have a hit album, i hope he has a hit album. dennis wilson's solo album is gonna be a good album."

so there's one for ya!

Really touching, in light of the jealousies and quid pro quo demands that derailed the solo tour and possibly played a role (amongst many personal factors of course) in preventing his solo ambitions (his only remaining avenue for creative expression, given the band's complacency) from reaching full fruition.

[Dove Nested Towers]

I don't understand what was so awful about not doing drugs and drinking, like some of the fans seem to think.  I just read a long profile in The New Yorker about Bruce Springsteen in which Miami Steve says Bruce is the only person he ever knew who never did drugs of any kind.  Yet he managed to have a long and successful and highly creative career. Springsteen wrote a lot of classic songs stone cold sober, without pot or LSD to give him creativity.  Who woulda thunk it?  The Wilson brothers were all really messed up at a certain time period.  You really think Carl was better on junk and alcohol, singing like he did on those tapes from Australia?  I'm pretty sure Carl eventually came around to the Love/Jardine way of thinking.  It's one thing to do drugs and drink recreationally, another to do it so much that you do 5 grams of cocaine a day like Brian or drink and drug yourself to the extent of Dennis.

MIU isn't that bad.  It has quite a bit of Brian on it.  I'm also not convinced that Dennis was the second coming of Brian, sorry.  POB is nice, but it's not quite my own personal cup of tea.  I bought the reissue a few years ago and played it through maybe once or twice.  If some people love it, great, but to me, Dennis wrote some nice songs here and there, but no, he was not anywhere close to his brother Brian in terms of talent.

IMO his talent was of a different order, but almost equally powerful, emotionally speaking, just in a different sense. Not as prolific and more uneven (although actually until the last couple of years of his songwriting days, VERY consistent, quality-wise). POB is not everyone's cup of tea, but there is no denying it's power and brilliance, and that of almost everything he did before '77 (quite a bit of fine material after that too). His talent was a shining gem with a uniquely evocative emotional resonance, gradually diminished by his experiences with The Family, substance abuse (a by-product of that trauma, which he never fully recovered from) and internecine squabbles & contentiousness which thwarted his ambitions and gradually infused his work with an increasingly morbid and grandly fatalistic feel, especially post-POB. Ah, what could have been....

[Dave in KC]

Yeah, I think you're right. Dennis showed up briefly to MIU then went to the Bahamas or somewhere.  Don't recall seeing him in the "Our Team" video from MIU, but I have to view it again to make sure....

Dennis never stayed in Fairfield. After he flew in to record his parts, he flew right back out again. You do understand what the town of Fairfield is all about? Must have made Dennis very uncomfortable being there. Kinda sad in a way.

[Mikie]

Fairfield, Iowa?  Is that near Bumfuct?

[Jonathan Blum]

For me, the most astonishing little detail in the Rolling Stone article was Dennis stopping Audree from drinking at the concert.  There's something heartbreaking about that...

Gulp,
Jon Blum

[Jay]

POB allegedly did not sit too well with Brian Wilson

Brian might actually be the album's biggest fan, he loved it more than Dennis probably did.

Considering Brian has said he's never heard it at certain times, I'd hardly say he's the album's biggest fan.

He is a huge fan of it and Dennis. Have some loving and amusing quotes by him on the album for my book.

Also Dennis was at MIU and played on She's Got Rhythm. Source for this is Alan Boyd who has seen all the video.

1977 was a bad time for the group in general. I was listening to a show today from early in the year and Carl actually starts cussing out a rude spectator for throwing pennies. I understand that he was pissed, but Mike had already addressed it with humor, and was in the middle of a serious intro to Everyone's In Love With You. Carl apologises to Mike, and Love is cool about it (on stage at least), but man Carl sounded so loaded it's just sad.

Dennis was a victim in that he should have been allowed to tour by himself, but I am sure that at a more harmonious time it wouldn't have been the same type of problem. BTW for what it's worth Karen said to Steven Gaines that Dennis was afraid of herion and only tried it on new years eve 1977 after she chided him into it. Carl was on it a year or two by then whatever that means. I love the Wilson's but I feel for Mike, Al and, Bruce from 1976-1983.  When drugs and drink started to happen before the show it must have made it hard to ignore anymore. Talking to people who toured with them in the sixties, they were very professional and there wasn't a lot of hard drug use.

Which show was it that Carl swore at the audience?

[MBE]

 I think it was Hollywood Flordia 1-6-77. What a sad new era this show kicked off.

[Jay]

Yeah, I think you're right. Dennis showed up briefly to MIU then went to the Bahamas or somewhere.  Don't recall seeing him in the "Our Team" video from MIU, but I have to view it again to make sure....

There is a clip of Dennis in the studio recording his vocal for My Diane, but other than that I don't think you see him again in the studio. There is a clip of him singing You Are So Beautiful from a concert though. He sings they at one point for the kids. It's rather touching. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

  He didn't contribute much (if anything) to KTSA, either.

That's because he wasn't in the band at that time. He was fired.
He contributed percussion for "Endless harmony" though. But I don't know if the track was recorded for KTSA or earlier for So Tough

http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/gigs79.html

[Autotune]

Episodes such as the one discussed here, or the Brian's childhood thread, render the current reunion all the more poignant for me.

[Banana]

Episodes such as the one discussed here, or the Brian's childhood thread, render the current reunion all the more poignant for me.

I agree 100%!

For me, if this is it for the BB...thank goodness this is their swan song...a great tour...a great new album...good vibrations.  They deserve to go out on a high note, together...not just faded away like a cloud of dust. 

[Lowbacca]

Episodes such as the one discussed here, or the Brian's childhood thread, render the current reunion all the more poignant for me.

I agree 100%!

For me, if this is it for the BB...thank goodness this is their swan song...a great tour...a great new album...good vibrations.  They deserve to go out on a high note, together...not just faded away like a cloud of dust. 

Well, the Eternal 'Cloud of Dust' Tour featuring Mike&Bruce will continue right after the last note of the last reunion concert has tailed off.. 

[Amanda Hart]

Yeah, I think you're right. Dennis showed up briefly to MIU then went to the Bahamas or somewhere.  Don't recall seeing him in the "Our Team" video from MIU, but I have to view it again to make sure....

There is a clip of Dennis in the studio recording his vocal for My Diane, but other than that I don't think you see him again in the studio. There is a clip of him singing You Are So Beautiful from a concert though. He sings they at one point for the kids. It's rather touching. 

That clip and the recording of the My Diane vocals are from Seattle, not MIU. He's not in any clips from MIU in "Our Team".

[Banana]

Well, the Eternal 'Cloud of Dust' Tour featuring Mike&Bruce will continue right after the last note of the last reunion concert has tailed off.. 
[/quote]

True.  That's always been something I've thought about.  I saw the Mike & Bruce Show at a county fair a year or two ago...and while they put on an enjoyable show...I was struck by the thought that this was not The Beach Boys.  This was not the same band that recorded "Surfin' Safari" or even "Summer In Paradise" for that matter.  This was Mike Love and Smilin' Bruce Johnston backed by a good band playing old hits.  In my opinion, The Beach Boys ended when Carl died and Al was dismissed.  Yes, they're back together again...but once Mike and Bruce go back on their never-ending county fair tour I just cannot consider them to be The Beach Boys.  Brian does it right.  Mike does it wrong.  I really don't mind Mike...but I think he cheapens the legacy by pretending The Beach Boys still exist when it's just he and Bruce and a revolving cast of backing musicians.

[AndrewHickey]

I really don't mind Mike...but I think he cheapens the legacy by pretending The Beach Boys still exist when it's just he and Bruce and a revolving cast of backing musicians.

Not really a revolving cast. Bonhomme's been with the band since 96 or so, Cowsill and Totten since 2001, and Kirsch since 2004. Other than the slimming-down in 2007ish, when Farmer and Kowalski were dropped and Christian Love joined, the line-up's been remarkably stable for the best part of a decade.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I really don't mind Mike...but I think he cheapens the legacy by pretending The Beach Boys still exist when it's just he and Bruce and a revolving cast of backing musicians.

Does it bother you that Brian Wilson votes FOR it to happen?

[Rocker]

Yeah, I think you're right. Dennis showed up briefly to MIU then went to the Bahamas or somewhere.  Don't recall seeing him in the "Our Team" video from MIU, but I have to view it again to make sure....

There is a clip of Dennis in the studio recording his vocal for My Diane, but other than that I don't think you see him again in the studio. There is a clip of him singing You Are So Beautiful from a concert though. He sings they at one point for the kids. It's rather touching.  

That clip and the recording of the My Diane vocals are from Seattle, not MIU. He's not in any clips from MIU in "Our Team".

Here is the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkhqbwrYwi4

 He didn't contribute much (if anything) to KTSA, either.

That's because he wasn't in the band at that time. He was fired.
He contributed percussion for "Endless harmony" though. But I don't know if the track was recorded for KTSA or earlier for So Tough

http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/gigs79.html

There you go. Thanks. So it was "new" stuff

[punkinhead]

After POB was released, Dennis flirted with the idea of a limited solo tour, going as far as booking a few dates and recording the rehearsals with a live band that included many members of the Beach Boys' backing band, including Carli Munoz and Ed Carter. POB allegedly did not sit too well with Brian Wilson, Michael Love, and Al Jardine. The matter did come up for debate in late 1977. Dennis was given an ultimatum to either go solo and leave the band, or make the band number one. I think it's safe to say that all four members besides Dennis bullied him into it. Ironic that Carl was allowed his own solo tour with nary a whisper from the group.

Wasn't the big airport fight in '77 as well? Did the Dennis thing figure into that at all?

I know of there abouts of fighting in the late 70s, but what happen on this occasion?

[Banana]

I really don't mind Mike...but I think he cheapens the legacy by pretending The Beach Boys still exist when it's just he and Bruce and a revolving cast of backing musicians.

Not really a revolving cast. Bonhomme's been with the band since 96 or so, Cowsill and Totten since 2001, and Kirsch since 2004. Other than the slimming-down in 2007ish, when Farmer and Kowalski were dropped and Christian Love joined, the line-up's been remarkably stable for the best part of a decade.

But is it The Beach Boys?

[Banana]

I really don't mind Mike...but I think he cheapens the legacy by pretending The Beach Boys still exist when it's just he and Bruce and a revolving cast of backing musicians.

Does it bother you that Brian Wilson votes FOR it to happen?

A little bit...but I'd rather Brian give his okay as long as it keeps the peace.

[BB Universe]

When Carl died and Al "left", the traveling BB's certainly lost something and even though Mike and Bruce toured with the name most people (and all the fans) knew it was a facsimile of the 5 or 6 member band. That said, if you liked the music you'd likely go see the show and have fun singing along or "seeing an old friend". But, what Mike did was keep the brand alive (and the shows got better in the mid-2000's and forward) in the many stops that they performed  and whether one called them a travelling oldies show or whatever the majority of people came away with an enjoyable experience. They were not "out of site, out of mind" to the average public and as they usually drew  about a few thousand fans per show  (often in cities that they played in within a yaer or two previous) people must have liked what they saw and heard.  So, when this reunion was announced  people who had seen the Mike & Bruce show now looked forward to Brian, Al and David being added and likely could think if what we previously saw was enjoyable, this will be even better. Brian's shows also helped keep the music and his name relevant (and certainly releases of BWPS and TSS helped keep a buzz). But, IMO Mike's touring efforts should not be underestimated or unappreciated.

[Jim V.]

Yeah, I think you're right. Dennis showed up briefly to MIU then went to the Bahamas or somewhere.  Don't recall seeing him in the "Our Team" video from MIU, but I have to view it again to make sure....

There is a clip of Dennis in the studio recording his vocal for My Diane, but other than that I don't think you see him again in the studio. There is a clip of him singing You Are So Beautiful from a concert though. He sings they at one point for the kids. It's rather touching.  

That clip and the recording of the My Diane vocals are from Seattle, not MIU. He's not in any clips from MIU in "Our Team".

Here is the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkhqbwrYwi4

 He didn't contribute much (if anything) to KTSA, either.

That's because he wasn't in the band at that time. He was fired.
He contributed percussion for "Endless harmony" though. But I don't know if the track was recorded for KTSA or earlier for So Tough

http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/gigs79.html

There you go. Thanks. So it was "new" stuff

Does anybody know of any place to view the "Our Team" special? I've never seen it, and I've been quite intrigued for a while, and would like to check it out.

[punkinhead]

Yeah, I think you're right. Dennis showed up briefly to MIU then went to the Bahamas or somewhere.  Don't recall seeing him in the "Our Team" video from MIU, but I have to view it again to make sure....

There is a clip of Dennis in the studio recording his vocal for My Diane, but other than that I don't think you see him again in the studio. There is a clip of him singing You Are So Beautiful from a concert though. He sings they at one point for the kids. It's rather touching.  

That clip and the recording of the My Diane vocals are from Seattle, not MIU. He's not in any clips from MIU in "Our Team".

Here is the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkhqbwrYwi4

 He didn't contribute much (if anything) to KTSA, either.

That's because he wasn't in the band at that time. He was fired.
He contributed percussion for "Endless harmony" though. But I don't know if the track was recorded for KTSA or earlier for So Tough

http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/gigs79.html

There you go. Thanks. So it was "new" stuff

Does anybody know of any place to view the "Our Team" special? I've never seen it, and I've been quite intrigued for a while, and would like to check it out.

I've only heard it and seen bits on YT. I have a copy of the audio somewhere

[runnersdialzero]

I really don't mind Mike...but I think he cheapens the legacy by pretending The Beach Boys still exist when it's just he and Bruce and a revolving cast of backing musicians.

Not really a revolving cast. Bonhomme's been with the band since 96 or so, Cowsill and Totten since 2001, and Kirsch since 2004. Other than the slimming-down in 2007ish, when Farmer and Kowalski were dropped and Christian Love joined, the line-up's been remarkably stable for the best part of a decade.

But is it The Beach Boys?

Is Brian, Al, Bruce, Mike, David, and 49 other guys on stage the Beach Boys?