The Smiley Smile Message Board

libs here only! (obama 2012)

How much do you think the govt should help out Chelsea (formerly Bradley) Manning for her sex and gender change? I'd say $30,000 dollars should be enough to cover the vaginoplasty, hormony therapy, etc.

$500,000.27

Whatever you get from government is taken from someone else. This is coming from someone who supports what Manning did, but a sex change on my dime? No.

I'm against it on the basis of her imprisonment. I don't see why the government has to pay for it anyway, she has more than enough followers in the media to collect enough money for the procedure.

Not one cent, guy is a traitor and freak.

I thought this was going to be a discussion on the merits of Psilocybe semilanceata, commonly known as Liberty Caps. Seems I was mistaken.

I'd say roughly $0.00. That sounds about fair.

if bradley manning where half the man he used to be... then YES, he would ask his country to pay.


but now he's half-man/half-woman.  & im ok if people forget this ever happened.

While I don't doubt that she identifies as transgender and that she is a woman, I question why she just decides now as she's about to go to prison to publicly announce her dysphoria.  It seems almost a ploy to create more controversy around her arrest.  I hope that doesn't sound transphobic, it just seems like odd timing, don't you think? 

But anyways, I think she's served the country well enough before the whole Wikileaks debacle, she should be provided with whatever she needs.

Whether you support Manning or not, that's pretty rude in any case.

Gender and sex are NOT the same thing.  Manning is a woman, just because she has a dick doesn't make her any less of one, she's not half anything and that's the case for any transgendered person.   You are ill-informed about LGBT culture if you think otherwise.

Manning screwed up big time imo. If you're LGB and especially T don't break the law; hell awaits you in prison.

Nice. Good to see this forum is full of some really hateful people.

Well to be fair, we should pay for all of it.  If everyone has a right to healthcare, then he has the right to force me to pay to have his surgery done.  What's the problem? 

I'll retro-actively pay for the abortion of every liberal, progressive, commie, socialist.  Just sign up and get in line.

I'm kidding of course... but then again...  :p

I think the government should pay $0,000,000.00 for his operation.

*her operation.

If I believe that I am Andrew Carnegie reincarnated -- am I entitled to the money?

Honest question.

Her operation to cut off her big, dangly c*ck (shakes head).

+1000, man we gotta hang out next time I am in the UK!

That's not a close-minded way of looking at it.  Not at all.  ::)

There's more to a person than their genitals.

By the way, I do think the thread title should be changed.  This is not a liberal discussion.  This isn't about politics, this is about the health of one single person who was unfairly screwed by the government.  I don't even see why this is an issue.  It's not like Manning is the first person to ever come out as transgender.

Absolutely, but I tend to use them as a fairly accurate measuring stick of determining a person's gender.

DNA doesn't lie. If I have brown hair, dye it blond, does that mean I am now blond? Nope. No offense.

Well yeah, having your penis hacked up and made into a vagina doesn't make you a woman, it just makes you a freak.

Life is give and take, assholes!

Deal with it or find a cliff to jump off!

We pay for all kinds of things we don't want or care about. I pay for some stop light in a distant part of the state that I'll likely never use, but some guy in that neighborhood paid for stop lights I do use and someone got paid to put the light up, and someone gets paid to keep it running..... This is life..... Go hide in a cave and point your guns at the door if you can't live with this.

Well that's where you're wrong because you're talking about sex, not gender.  Do some research if you can't understand the difference between the two.

There needs to be a permanent "I AM HATEFUL AND VINDICTIVE" thread up..... Might clear up some attempts at discussion around here.

According to Google:

Sex - either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions.
Gender:

Gender - the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

"Sex" reference biology while "gender" implies something cultural. I get it.

What does this have to do with whether or not the gov. should have to flip the bill for what is essentially elective surgery?

It doesn't but Mike's Beard seems to have some weird vendetta against the entire transgender community just because he refuses to understand them.  I'm trying to explain it to him.

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Oh ok. I thought you were talking to me.  :3d

Why does it matter if he doesn't want to understand them? Are they that insecure that they need to be accepted and understood by all?

They don't need to be understood necessarily but they should be accepted and it's ridiculous to not be accepting of such a thing.

I neither ask nor expect to be accepted; why should transgenders receive special treatment? Just because they're transgendered? I approach people as individuals and accept them as such. That's the fairest deal they'll ever get. That's a deal they should expect and learn to live with. No one owes anyone else acceptance merely because they're a certain gender, race, religion, sexual orientation or whatever.

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Exactly.

Again, no one can reasonably expect to be accepted for any reason and no one should force others to accept them. Maybe I should be accepted just because I'm a market anarchist. I can't back up WHY I should be accepted...I just think I should be accepted. Y'know, BECAUSE!

No, that's not how it works. You approach people as people. If you don't want to accept someone for whatever reason that's on you. No one has "right" to be accepted by other individuals. It's called freedom of association. No one has to accept anyone for any reason. If you have a problem with that you're going to have major problems in your social life. This is the real world. No one is due any acceptance or respect.

You want equality? That's the best deal in town.

No vendetta, it's their body and they are free to do with it whatever they wish. I just don't consider a post-op to be an actual woman, nevermind a pre-op, as you insist on referring Mr Manning as.

Bradley Manning is a mess of a human being and he is using the transgender stuff to attract more attention to himself. Just like when he leaked those documents.

I don't care about the transgender thing; the leaks had no real consequence to foreign policy.

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It's not a matter of anyone being owed anything (THE core issue it seems with you regarding basically everything) but rather IF someone or a group of people are being denied rights due to this or that: THAT is the issue ..... Preaching understanding of a specific person or group is an attempt to stave off the motivation for bias or fear or hatred, etc etc.....unless you have a problem with someone believing they are not owed discrimination.

That said, I don't think we taxpayers should have to pay for elective surgery.

That is not an example of a vendetta.

You can preach understanding, sure. But you can't expect to change anyone's mind, especially when people take an opinion like that of Mr. Beard up there as a "vendetta" or "hatred", of which it is neither. See, there will always be the contrary opinion. As far as discrimination goes, discrimination is just freedom of association. People discriminate all the time and for many reasons. Those who think they don't are kidding themselves.

Oh, yes absolutely we all do..... It's those who take action against a specific group that become a problem..... My folks live in Idaho and I see practical and tangible discrimination in full view whenever I'm there.

There's a difference between discrimination and violence - when your behavior becomes violent it is abhorrent. You cannot say "it's because of discrimination". It's because those people are violent.

Yeah, but that's like saying people molest kids because they are molesters and don't do anything about keeping molesters away from kids.... Sometimes educating people about things can create empathy and can diffuse hatreds, biases, prejudices, which in turn can prevent future violence. If you want to think people are just violent and will harm people no matter what, sure, but it's a bit ignorant considering the history of this country and far we've come/haven't come in regards to discrimination.... Willful ignorance to suite one's anger and vile opinion of humanity is a choice.

Violence doesn't only come in the form of fists, guns, knives, bombs, BTW.

Genitals-schmenitals.  I still want to know, if I believe I'm Andrew mtha-fckin-Carnegie reincarnated -- am I due the mtha-fkcking money!?

Open you mtha-fkcing-minds!

Seriously.  Public money, to knock off some dude's junk?  Do I have to pay for that?  ;)

This opens up options for guys too.  Breast implants with robot nipples.  Pectoral prostheses.  Lengthening.  Emboldening.  Muscle growth hormones.  To round out the masculine metamorphism.  Be the swan he always wanted to be.  No... the swan he always knew he could be.

(http://www.pcdon.com/Waving_Flag_on_3D_Pole-160x120.gif)

This is what I'm talking about.  Choose the sex of your baby now.  They can it change later.  The world needs more women.  Or it doesn't.  I don't know.  Whichever your fancy, I suppose.  

What about when "they" want to engineer it all?  They choose.  Based on some schematic diagram.  The boys at the bureau (guys at the office) -- they'll handle that.  And with good cause.  It's too important.  And that's a good reason.  The fun, random style (of yore) wasn't acceptable -- and the new style (your choosing) = too many boys.  Everyone wants a boy (see diagram).  You're next baby is... a girl.

(http://www.pcdon.com/walking_frankenstein_monster-200x241_149x180_124x150.gif)

They'll need more money for all this.  Why?  A lot of reasons.  For starters, the website cost half a Krillion dollars.  No one bought the mandatory plans ("the exchanges").  Too expensive.  And they just pay the measly fine instead.  


Before all this happens, they will have raised the fine, to make sure all this doesn't happen.  Raise the tariff on your sheriff.  Tax your mustache, to Replenish their cash-stash.

Hey. Christ almighty.