Mike's band

[guitarfool2002]

Are you going to address the allegation that you and OSD are pals in the physical world? And explain why that might not affect your judgement as a mod, when so many board members are requesting action over his constant trolling?

Not worthy of a response but here it is.


It started here:

Re(23): Smley Smile board currently down
Posted on December 5, 2015 at 00:27:46 by beachballtwo

I don't think they really are even attempting to warn people to stop, though. They're just refusing to engage while tacitly approving of the two trolls in question. Who don't really write posts, but emoticons and random short babbling. At least one of the mods, who shall remain nameless, discussed going for an after show drink with surfer man, so I think you know why that mod has not banned him.


And this is where whoever that guy posting on BBB might be took that from:

As Frank Sinatra sang it:

Hear that music playing, listen to what it's saying
Throughout the years I've made a lot of friends
Many became famous, most of them go nameless
But I dedicate this song to all of them
I've sung with the best and I've had it all
I've gone from neighborhood saloons to Carnegie Hall
I've been down and out and I've been in demand
But I wouldn't have made it without them, here's to the band!

Those magical notes, those musical pearls
I've sung with all the Counts, the Dukes, the Kings, and the Earls
And the experience, I have to say, was grand
But I wouldn't have made it without them, here's to the band!

Strings soaring, horns boring
Drums pounding in my ear
To start at the ground and reach for the top
To have such a wonderful career, I just gotta stop
Stop and turn around to thank everyone that sits on the stand?
Cause I wouldn't have made it without them, here's to the band!

Here's to those ladies and the gentlemen
Here's to the AF of MI wouldn't have made it without them, here's to the band!
Here's to the band!

The first time I saw them with Brian, Symphony Hall in Boston, I was amazed at how they could pull off those studio creations live. Simply amazing.

Then I saw them again, at the Orpheum in Boston, for the Smile tour. I've never seen quite anything like that. To be able to pull that off live on stage - as noted with vocal harmonies no less - It set the bar as high as it could be set in my eyes and as a musician. Incredible musicianship.

And beyond that, they have the feel and the groove for the music, apart from reading the charts. Pockets a mile wide, grooves as thick as molasses. And the skill to pull it off.

Back to Sinatra for a second: Sid Mark has been broadcasting his Sinatra show in Philly since the 50's. He closes every show by saying "All things being equal and God willing", he'll be back another week playing Sinatra for a few hours on the radio.

Stealing Sid's line, all things being equal and God willing, I'll be in Philly for the show too.

And here's to the band!

Be glad to buy you a brewski, GF!   

Much appreciated - I'll drink to that!    But the first round is mine.   

Clarified? Good. The best part about knowing the truth is you don't need to worry about being wrong.

[The Shift]

I'm not sure what that clarifies, but thanks for the "Origins" insight. Really.

[guitarfool2002]

I'm not sure what that clarifies, but thanks for the "Origins" insight. Really.

It clarifies that whatever you or the other poster tried to suggest was found in a thread here on the Smiley board and as far as either of you know, that's the extent of it. So to demand that I explain whether I did or did not have a beer with someone at a show, or if someone shared a beer to "cozy up" to a mod, is as ridiculous and as foolish as it sounded from the beginning. Nice try, though. How many shots is this which you've tried to take at me, and none have hit the target? I lost count after one.

But, I wanted to clarify so you can rest assured, John, that despite one out of dozens of exchanges that happened on this board between fans who may be going to the same show, or traveling to the same city, you had no reason at all to bring that into this conversation, any more than the original poster, and maybe you should make sure you have all the facts before trying to challenge someone based on absolutely nothing substantial beyond an axe to grind.

I'm happy to be able to say that a post on a message board about beer did not affect the moderation of this board one bit. If you want to argue that, go for it.

[Mike's Beard]

Nice to see after all that's gone down today you still haven't lost your condescending, lecturing tone.

[guitarfool2002]

Nice to see after all that's gone down today you still haven't lost your condescending, lecturing tone.

Maybe I'll start attacking people who post here on other message boards to help me soften up a bit.

[Sam_BFC]

Guitarfool has been a real credit to the board over the years.  He has written some of my favourite stuff on the studio/techy topics.

Unfortunately he is not a good choice for mod in my view.  At least, that it is how it has turned out; I don't think anyone had an issue with his appointment at the time.  He seems to me a little too uptight, confrontational and biased at times.  Not ideal, and often compounds situations rather than diffusing them.

It is of course not all his doing.  Other posters have probably done far, far more to reduce the board to what it presently (and hopefully only temporarily) has become.  I suppose however that the unfortunate fact is that one bears more responsibility and is more accountable as a moderator.

I think the likes of Adam and Autotune have summed it up pretty well.  In fact Adam's post was very sensible and diplomatic.

Donny has also offered a very sensible post.

If the board at large could follow Donny's guidelines, much of the board's problems would be solved.  Failing/in addition to that, I would respectfully suggest that guitarfool considers altering his approach (see how Billy and Klaas - two great guys and excellent moderators - handle things) or stepping down from his position as a mod, thus allowing him to spend his time making the sorts of contributions to the board that we all enjoy.  This alone of course would not solve all issues, but may help a little.

[guitarfool2002]

Guitarfool has been a real credit to the board over the years.  He has written some of my favourite stuff on the studio/techy topics.

Unfortunately he is not a good choice for mod in my view.  At least, that it is how it has turned out; I don't think anyone had an issue with his appointment at the time.  He seems to me a little too uptight, confrontational and biased at times.  Not ideal, and often compounds situations rather than diffusing them.

It is of course not all his doing.  Other posters have probably done far, far more to reduce the board to what it presently (and hopefully only temporarily) has become.  I suppose however that the unfortunate fact is that one bears more responsibility and is more accountable as a moderator.

I think the likes of Adam and Autotune have summed it up pretty well.  In fact Adam's post was very sensible and diplomatic.

Donny has also offered a very sensible post.

If the board at large could follow Donny's guidelines, much of the board's problems would be solved.  Failing/in addition to that, I would respectfully suggest that guitarfool considers altering his approach (see how Billy and Klaas - two great guys and excellent moderators - handle things) or stepping down from his position as a mod, thus allowing him to spend his time making the sorts of contributions to the board that we all enjoy.  This alone of course would not solve all issues, but may help a little.

It may help, but if you can prove that banning two posters out of several thousand and convincing a mod to step down will cure the ills of this board, you're sorely mistaken. Unfortunately when people try as hard as they have been here to influence decisions and turn public opinion against whoever it is they chose to target, whether it's a board member or a mod, keep in mind that the issues that exist could just as well be hiding in plain sight among those calling loudest for the bans and removals. And if that is the order of the day, consider it might be you who would be the next target depending on who is leading the mob.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

Nice to see after all that's gone down today you still haven't lost your condescending, lecturing tone.

Maybe I'll start attacking people who post here on other message boards to help me soften up a bit.

Oh my god, seriously? It was done. We were all making jokes and burying the hatchet. Things were cooling down and showing signs of agreement. You had the chance to just say "I agree as well. I think we've made some real progress here today, in spite of the nastiness on all sides." And it woulve been over. But you just cannot let it go. Youre a mod, and at least today, youre more responsible for the hurt feelings, annoyance and fighting than anyone else. And you cannot deny that, because thats EXACTLY what you were doing bringing this thread back and encouraging us to hate on AGD, and refusing his offer to talk it out in PMs. C'mon, man. Im sorry but this should NOT be how a mod conducts themselves; its literally the exact opposite of what you ought to be doing in creating a fun, welcoming space for people to contribute to.

Guitarfool has been a real credit to the board over the years.  He has written some of my favourite stuff on the studio/techy topics.

Unfortunately he is not a good choice for mod in my view.  At least, that it is how it has turned out; I don't think anyone had an issue with his appointment at the time.  He seems to me a little too uptight, confrontational and biased at times.  Not ideal, and often compounds situations rather than diffusing them.

It is of course not all his doing.  Other posters have probably done far, far more to reduce the board to what it presently (and hopefully only temporarily) has become.  I suppose however that the unfortunate fact is that one bears more responsibility and is more accountable as a moderator.

I think the likes of Adam and Autotune have summed it up pretty well.  In fact Adam's post was very sensible and diplomatic.

Donny has also offered a very sensible post.

If the board at large could follow Donny's guidelines, much of the board's problems would be solved.  Failing/in addition to that, I would respectfully suggest that guitarfool considers altering his approach (see how Billy and Klaas - two great guys and excellent moderators - handle things) or stepping down from his position as a mod, thus allowing him to spend his time making the sorts of contributions to the board that we all enjoy.  This alone of course would not solve all issues, but may help a little.

After today, I 100% emphatically agree.

[The Shift]

I think this is over. Nothing left to see. It's bedtime here in Yorkshire and I aim to get some sleep.

[guitarfool2002]

The problem will still exist no matter how many bans and changes are made, and the problem goes beyond what is being agreed to here. It's a start, but you can't properly rid a garden of weeds without pulling out the roots, and the roots go beyond individual posters and a moderator.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

It may help, but if you can prove that banning two posters out of several thousand and convincing a mod to step down will cure the ills of this board, you're sorely mistaken.

More of my two cents again...

Nobody is getting banned right now.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I'm making a judgment call.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

^ That is a line. It has been drawn. From this moment, let's all move forward. Please. I've been part of this board for 10 years now. We've all said our points, right? Is there anything left that needs to be said?

I am very aware that as it stands, there are issues that need to be fixed. One of them is an update to the board rules. I wish it had been done sooner, and I share responsibility in that, but it's being worked on by us mods and I swear..I PROMISE...that every one's concerns will be addressed and it shall be such that we will be able to move forward. Going forward, after this is done, if there is a problem with anything we are doing, please address it with us privately.  Not publicly. Please.

Understand that I am NOT trying to censor anybody, or chastise anybody. I want this board to survive. Hell, I want it to thrive. This is the only way it can be done.  Nobody is getting banned or stepping down over this. Nobody needs to right now. After these new rules are put up (and they are going to be looked at by all 3 of us mods...nobody is just going to put up something on their own), things *will* get better, and i promise things will not slide down to this level again.

[Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard]

I'm making a judgment call.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

^ That is a line. It has been drawn. From this moment, let's all move forward. Please. I've been part of this board for 10 years now. We've all said our points, right? Is there anything left that needs to be said?

I am very aware that as it stands, there are issues that need to be fixed. One of them is an update to the board rules. I wish it had been done sooner, and I share responsibility in that, but it's being worked on by us mods and I swear..I PROMISE...that every one's concerns will be addressed and it shall be such that we will be able to move forward. Going forward, after this is done, if there is a problem with anything we are doing, please address it with us privately.  Not publicly. Please.

Understand that I am NOT trying to censor anybody, or chastise anybody. I want this board to survive. Hell, I want it to thrive. This is the only way it can be done.  Nobody is getting banned or stepping down over this. Nobody needs to right now. After these new rules are put up (and they are going to be looked at by all 3 of us mods...nobody is just going to put up something on their own), things *will* get better, and i promise things will not slide down to this level again.

Yes there is. I just wanna say that THIS is the kind of correspondence I like and would expect from mods going forward. Being polite, non-argumentative (tho Im sure some of whats been said has hurt you) and transparent in intent. Well meaning, trying to quell rather than feed the flames. Perfect. Lets see this kind of approach from everybody from now on.

[Empire Of Love]

I'm no fan of repetitive posts that only contain snide remarks.  But for those of you calling for OSD and SB to be banned, which of the following board rules, specifically, have they violated?  For which of these rules are you calling GF's integrity into question:

Rules and Guidelines - read this before posting
« on: December 23, 2005, 08:41:53 PM »
Thanks for visiting the Smiley Smile message board. Here are a few guidelines to help everything run smoothly:

1) Joe, SMiLE-Holland, Guitarfool,  and  Billy C moderate the board.  They share that responsibility across the entire board.  In the few and rare times a member crosses the line, they will be able to remove or edit posts, and ban members if necessary.  Any complaints about a member or a post should be directed to them.  If after contacting them you are not satisfied, you then should contact me.  They, however, should always be your first line of contact concerning this board, and you will find I intend to support them in their roles.

2) Treat others as you want to be treated. Think about what you are saying before you post a message. Lift each other up, don't tear each other down. Harassment of members is not tolerated. Please behave and not be an embarrassment to the good name of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys.  But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.  1Peter 1:15-16

3) Talking about bootlegs is fine. Posting messages asking for bootlegs or offering bootlegs is not fine. That's what private messages and emails are for. The same of course applies to official recordings.

4) Yes, most of what would commonly be considered foul language is edited.  Currently, that means it's translated to Portuguese, though the method of filtering may change without notice.   If this bothers you, keep in mind rule #1.

5) If you feel the need to discuss a PM you received with a third party, then don't expect your PMs to be very private, either. If you don't want someone sending you a PM, or someone doing anything in particular, tell them. Don't wait for or expect someone to speak up for you. If the party in question doesn't listen, go to a moderator about it.   Private messages will not be read by a moderator unless warranted by the behavior of a board member.  Anyone who becomes a cause for concern due to rude or abusive behavior may have their accounts temporarily frozen and their private and public messages examined to see what final actions should be taken.  Said action may be anything from a warning to a temporary or permanent ban.  The moderators will discuss and announce the action that is taken.  Any unwanted or improper private messages should be immediately reported to one of the moderators.

5.5)  Do not post contents of private messages on the board without permission from the sender. 'Private' means exactly that.

6) Flirtatious and suggestive discussions are usually misunderstood and thus not welcome here..

7) Please, no pictures in signatures.

Unregistered guests may continue to read messages here, but they will be unable to post messages anywhere on the board.  If you want to participate, and we hope you do, you will need to register.

9) Forum moderation policy (at moderator's discretion, also includes requests for "Private Messages" with regards to bootleg trading)

First offense - Banned for 7 days (a week)
Second offense - Banned for 30 days (a month)
Third offense - Permanent ban and account deletion (forever)

In extreme cases, a first or second offense may be grounds for a permanent ban...again, at the discretion of the mod involved.

Of course, the main site is available at www.smileysmile.net.

These guidelines will change from time to time, so check back here often. Thank you!

EoL

[SonoraDick]

**tiptoes back in** whispers, "though... 'Mike Love's whore band of Sunrays' would be a hilarious name for a cover band." **runs out and never shows her face at smileysmile.net again.

Are you really Dave Barry posing as a woman? 

[Emily]

**tiptoes back in** whispers, "though... 'Mike Love's whore band of Sunrays' would be a hilarious name for a cover band." **runs out and never shows her face at smileysmile.net again.

Are you really Dave Barry posing as a woman? 

I've been found out.      need a new cover.

[Custom Machine]

...
1) Joe, SMiLE-Holland, Guitarfool,  and  Billy C moderate the board.  
...

So there are four mods? I thought there were three. Who is Joe? Might be helpful to explain exactly how to contact each of the mods, as I know at least one of the mods likes to have fun changing his screen name from time to time (which is absolutely fine with me). Also, when I sent a message to all but Joe (not having any idea who he was or knowing he was a moderator), I received a response only from Smile-Holland. So I'd like to publicly thank Smile-Holland for providing me with the courtesy of a reply.

[Jim V.]

I read through this earlier while football was on and didn't really care to jump in, but I figure what the heck?

First off, Custom Machine whether he meant it or not has brought up a great point. There is a "moderator" on the board named Jonas. He is NEVER FUCKIN' ON HERE. Hasn't apparently even been on the board in over a month and hasn't contributed to a thread in OVER A YEAR! And this guy is a moderator? You kidding me? Before anybody talks about whatever Billy and Craig are or aren't, let's kick this guy to the curb. Having him as a mod is like me hiring a bodyguard to protect me for 10 minutes a year.

As far as the other stuff, I've spoken at a reasonable amount of length with both Craig (guitarfool) and Andrew. I enjoyed chatting with both. However, I must admit that I have no fuckin' clue what it is that Andrew did that is so reprehensible that Craig keeps alluding to. And if he's not gonna come out and say it, well then I'm inclined to think he's just upset that Andrew thinks he's doing a bad job and thinks the board has turned into a bit of a sh*t show, which it has. And while I think a few of the posters on here are amongst the most ridiculous and plainly idiotic that I've ever seen on any board ever (f*********e, C** M***, B*** **g) for the most part there is a decent group here.

And personally I have to say I find the stuff about people being "attacked" on here so laughable. In the oh-so-exciting, super-hip "Record Room" back in the day, I had that wonderful non-elitist named Ian Wagner threaten to burn down my house, and also say something about how he wishes my mother never gave birth to me or something like that. Yet, here I am today. And shoot, I even posted in the Record Room again after that. So let's not take this so seriously. I'm not saying that the internet isn't *real life* but I am saying that any bad words anybody sees written about them on here should disappear from their consciousness the moment they close the browser. Cuz in all likelihood the person on the other end doesn't truly mean it. And if any of us did in fact meet up in person, we'd probably be incredibly psyched to chat in person with another Beach Boys superfan.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

...
1) Joe, SMiLE-Holland, Guitarfool,  and  Billy C moderate the board. 
...

So there are four mods? I thought there were three. Who is Joe? Might be helpful to explain exactly how to contact each of the mods, as I know at least one of the mods likes to have fun changing his screen name from time to time (which is absolutely fine with me). Also, when I sent a message to all but Joe (not having any idea who he was or knowing he was a moderator), I received a response only from Smile-Holland. So I'd like to publicly thank Smile-Holland for providing me with the courtesy of a reply.

I'm normally pretty good about responding. ..my apologies here

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I read through this earlier while football was on and didn't really care to jump in, but I figure what the heck?

First off, Custom Machine whether he meant it or not has brought up a great point. There is a "moderator" on the board named Jonas. He is NEVER FUCKIN' ON HERE. Hasn't apparently even been on the board in over a month and hasn't contributed to a thread in OVER A YEAR! And this guy is a moderator? You kidding me? Before anybody talks about whatever Billy and Craig are or aren't, let's kick this guy to the curb. Having him as a mod is like me hiring a bodyguard to protect me for 10 minutes a year.

As far as the other stuff, I've spoken at a reasonable amount of length with both Craig (guitarfool) and Andrew. I enjoyed chatting with both. However, I must admit that I have no fuckin' clue what it is that Andrew did that is so reprehensible that Craig keeps alluding to. And if he's not gonna come out and say it, well then I'm inclined to think he's just upset that Andrew thinks he's doing a bad job and thinks the board has turned into a bit of a sh*t show, which it has. And while I think a few of the posters on here are amongst the most ridiculous and plainly idiotic that I've ever seen on any board ever (f*********e, C** M***, B*** **g) for the most part there is a decent group here.

And personally I have to say I find the stuff about people being "attacked" on here so laughable. In the oh-so-exciting, super-hip "Record Room" back in the day, I had that wonderful non-elitist named Ian Wagner threaten to burn down my house, and also say something about how he wishes my mother never gave birth to me or something like that. Yet, here I am today. And shoot, I even posted in the Record Room again after that. So let's not take this so seriously. I'm not saying that the internet isn't *real life* but I am saying that any bad words anybody sees written about them on here should disappear from their consciousness the moment they close the browser. Cuz in all likelihood the person on the other end doesn't truly mean it. And if any of us did in fact meet up in person, we'd probably be incredibly psyched to chat in person with another Beach Boys superfan.

We're looking at adding another mod. Joe used to be active, but yeah it's past the point of ridiculous at this point.

And as a fellow victim of the old Wagner 'charm', hats off to you. I still have those hideous emails from that shitface.

[Micha]

The very last thing I would EVER want is for this board to become a 'police state' type thing. I'm just pointing it out.

Some time ago, there used to be a guy called Pinder whose posts I enjoyed. He was then goaded by OSD and SB through allegations and insults to get so thin skinned that Pinder kind of mirrored their behavior. It got really ugly, and while I expected SB and OSD - it was them who started the fight - to be banned for their behavior, it was Pinder who got banned. I couldn't understand that at all and got a certain 'police state' feeling on this site, as Pinder had questioned the impartiality of the mods during his fight with SB and OSD. It was only after he was banned that I too started to doubt the impartiality of the mods, no, make that one of the mods. I'm not surprised that issues about perceived biasedness of one of the mods are being adressed rather on another board than right here.

Sometimes AGD behaves in a manner I find repulsive, especially when people are just a little bit naive or plain mistaken and he puts them down in an overly rude way. But he did address an issue I find problematic too. I'm just too wimpy to openly address it.

Please behave and not be an embarrassment to the good name of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys.

Certain members just don't follow that rule. One of the mods rather than acting on this rule gave us the advice to install an ignore function so we don't see their posts. If we do so, we close our eyes to the violations of that rule. Is that really a good thing?

What would be the best in my eyes is this:

Inflammatory: "that d*ckhead Joe Thomas ruined No Pier Pressure, and I hope Brian gets out of his evil clutches."

Respectful debate: "I think Joe Thomas has been a ghost producer for Brian, and his recordings have suffered as a result."

Inflammatory: "That group of surf band dropouts should stop calling themselves 'The Beach Boys', and go with 'Mike Love's whore band of Sunrays'.

Respectful debate: "I've always been of the opinion that it's a disservice to the group's legacy for Mike to tour as 'The Beach Boys' without the original core members".

If the controversial posters would keep to "respectful debates", I would prefer that to them being banned. But I've got no hope for that.

It may help, but if you can prove that banning two posters out of several thousand and convincing a mod to step down will cure the ills of this board, you're sorely mistaken.

It certainly wouldn't cure all ills, that's for sure.

[Jay]

Somewhere on this board I read a post from Billy concerning the fact that while OSD and SB are annoying and like to cause general merry hell, they haven't actually done anything that is considered a ban-able offense. I would strongly suggest that a future "trolling" rule be implemented, wherein purposely derailing a thread purely for the fun of it would warrant first a warning, and then banning if the warning is ignored. I would also strongly suggest adding a board rule stating that mods are not exempt from board rules. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Somewhere on this board I read a post from Billy concerning the fact that while OSD and SB are annoying and like to cause general merry hell, they haven't actually done anything that is considered a ban-able offense. I would strongly suggest that a future "trolling" rule be implemented, wherein purposely derailing a thread purely for the fun of it would warrant first a warning, and then banning if the warning is ignored. I would also strongly suggest adding a board rule stating that mods are not exempt from board rules. 

That is indeed going to be looked at.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Micha, on a purely statistical point... yes, there are 3,279 registered posters here. However, of those 1,315 are totally inactive - have never made a post at all - while a further 1454 have made more than none but less than 100 posts meaning that 2769 registered posters here - over 84% - can hardly be regarded as active.

If you up that to over 1000 posts, the percentage of "active" posters drops to just over 3%, or 103 registered posters... and pulling out a name at random - Myk Luhv ( ), yes, they've made 1350 posts. Last active ? July 5th, 2014. Runaways, 2008 posts, last active Christmas Day 2012. Without further damaging my eyesight, I'd guess that there's a hard core of maybe 40, 50 regular posters here, making for a "disruptive" percentage of about 10% as opposed to 0.12%.

My old pure maths & statistics tutor (I dropped out after the first year) opened the first lesson by saying "Statistics is a wonderful discipline: if you amass enough data and juggle it for long enough, you will achieve the result you desire". But it's not three or four out of several thousand, but out of less than a hundred. Jus' sayin'.

[Custom Machine]

Somewhere on this board I read a post from Billy concerning the fact that while OSD and SB are annoying and like to cause general merry hell, they haven't actually done anything that is considered a ban-able offense. I would strongly suggest that a future "trolling" rule be implemented, wherein purposely derailing a thread purely for the fun of it would warrant first a warning, and then banning if the warning is ignored. I would also strongly suggest adding a board rule stating that mods are not exempt from board rules. 

That is indeed going to be looked at.

Great to hear! Trolling can cause a good thread to quickly go to hell via endless bickering. I honestly feel it's a serious issue that has not been addressed.