Wow...Mike, Al and Dave Reunion!

[SurfRiderHawaii]

David never seems to complain about how he got screwed by Murry.  He seemingly, suffered in silence. 

Unlike Mike who always seemed to be whining how he wrote this and that and didn't get a writing credit.  I imagine, back in the day, David came up with an original lick or two but would never make a claim against Brian over songwriting credits.

There are certain ways of handling things in life and David always seems to take the high road.

Songs are like real estate; they are properties with attached ownership and rights that can be traded, sold, or assigned . The creator of a musical composition is the sole owner of those rights, from the moment of composition's inception, until he sells them or assigns them to another entity.

Claiming what's yours is taking the high road.
[/quote]

Why did that ceremony end with a performance by a Blues Brothers tribute band? That doesn't make any damn sense.

Also, David Marks has it pretty sweet. Think about it. He joins the band, sticks around long enough to be remembered, leaves, and now forty years later he gets all sorts of accolades for his five seconds in the group.

YEAH...pretty sweet. He records all those hit songs, and plays on those hit albums, and then gets screwed out of millions of dollars by Murry and Capitol. Boy does he have it made!!

And he STILL probably has more dough than the rest of us will ever see...

Read Jon's book! I'll bet you and I had more than $10 in our pocket the day Dave spent his last on parking to go bat for Mike!

Already have - both, I'll swap my job for his job and rates of pay. I wouldn't choose to leave a no. 1 band leaving behind fame & fortune...

David never seems to complain about how he got screwed by Murry.  He seemingly, suffered in silence. 

Unlike Mike who always seemed to be whining how he wrote this and that and didn't get a writing credit.  I imagine, back in the day, David came up with an original lick or two but would never make a claim against Brian over songwriting credits.

There are certain ways of handling things in life and David always seems to take the high road.

David could easily make a claim for songwritng credit on something like Surf Jam, which isn't really a song but as the title says, its a spontaneous jam...David's riff starts the song but Carl gets the sole writer's credit. Another one is Stoked! Brian gets that credit...I believe Dave thought of the title....and again its just a jam. Maybe a group credit would have been nice. None of this is really songwriting...but a credit or two on a million selling LP like Surfin USA would have put some significant money in his pocket. He did submit his own Kustom Kar Show for the Little Deuce Coupe LP which was rejected, that would have been his music and lyrics....but that show didn't go. Dave and Carl wrote an instrumental titled Blue City which the Beach Boys played live but never recorded. Part of this is why Dave left the group without asking for a contract settlement which the court most certainly would have upheld for a minor, he was in a hurry to get his own stuff out there. He was 15, not thinking about money, and the adults that were supposed to protect his interests did not. That's how you lose 20% of the Beach Boys franchise.

Be a great book to write Jon - call it "Apple Scruffs" or something.  All the rockers who got totally ripped off by their managers, etc.  Like Pete Hamm, Beatles losing their publishing, Noel Redding.....

[mammy blue]

"Reunion"? What reunion? There is no reunion without Dennis and Carl. Do you really think a real person would ever say something like:

"You know, that Brian Wilson seems very talented, but how could he deprive us of seeing him on stage again with Mike Love and Al Jardine? Maybe I was wrong about him".

I suggest we start another thread lamenting that Paul and Ringo aren't doing a "reunion" tour. Don't they care about the fans?

[Stegibo]

Mmh ok, I say it is a reunion. Now what?

[drbeachboy]

"Reunion"? What reunion? There is no reunion without Dennis and Carl. Do you really think a real person would ever say something like:

"You know, that Brian Wilson seems very talented, but how could he deprive us of seeing him on stage again with Mike Love and Al Jardine? Maybe I was wrong about him".

I suggest we start another thread lamenting that Paul and Ringo aren't doing a "reunion" tour. Don't they care about the fans?

Quick question regarding Reunion for you. Was my family reunion invalidated because my father, who passed away in 1977, was not there to attend? Should a family, ex-school mates, band members not get together because some members die or don't care to attend? The Beach Boys have a lot to celebrate and they should get together if they choose to want to. Dennis and Carl will be celebrated, because they too were brothers, cousins and friends.

[runnersdialzero]

"Reunion"? What reunion? There is no reunion without Dennis and Carl. Do you really think a real person would ever say something like:

"You know, that Brian Wilson seems very talented, but how could he deprive us of seeing him on stage again with Mike Love and Al Jardine? Maybe I was wrong about him".

I suggest we start another thread lamenting that Paul and Ringo aren't doing a "reunion" tour. Don't they care about the fans?

Quick question regarding Reunion for you. Was my family reunion invalidated because my father, who passed away in 1977, was not there to attend? Should a family, ex-school mates, band members not get together because some members die or don't care to attend? The Beach Boys have a lot to celebrate and they should get together if they choose to want to. Dennis and Carl will be celebrated, because they too were brothers, cousins and friends.

+1 for rational thoughts.

[Ron]

Because of people on this site, David Marks got to meet Buzz Aldrin. Unless they've met before. Pretty cool. Too bad Brian wasn't there. TOO BAD.

He did get to meet Buzz Aldrin, but that picture is actually of Chuck Yeager, an equally bad-ass american hero. 

First man with the balls to fly through the turbulence created by the sound barrier. 

What a surreal event the hall of fame must have been.  It's like half my heroes were there.  Buzz Aldrin, Chuck Yeager, Clint Eastwood, Magic Johnson, The Beach Boys, Carlos Santana, and even Rob Lowe.

lol.. 

[Ron]

BTW, somebody must have not told Brian who was going to be there.  Surely he would have went if he knew it was a legit, big time production with legends attending.  I mean this is a respectable event and he no shows?  Tacky.  If Magic Johnson can show up, Brian could have showed up. 

[JohnMill]

My take: Award ceremonies are for the young anyhow.  "Young Hollywood" or whatever they call it these days.  I understand that the California Hall Of Fame is a different scene all together as it skews an older crowd but generally speaking I was kind of happy that The Beach Boys didn't show up at the Grammy announcement show.  I mean Lady GaGa and whomever else they had up there as their headliners, it would have been embarrassing to have a band the stature and significance of The Beach Boys show up and be garnish on the plate to a bunch of acts who quite frankly aren't and would never be in their league.  

As far as how Brian Wilson looks by not appearing at these events?  I don't think it matters.  Brian Wilson is sixty-nine years old, a member of the rock and roll hall of fame, arguably the greatest talent of his generation.  Does it really matter whether or not he turns up at a given awards ceremony in 2011?  The music industry has always been dominated by youth whether it be youthful artists or youthful consumers.  I doubt if the majority of the current music buying public really give a stuff about Brian Wilson or The Beach Boys for that matter and believe it or not outside of Beach Boys fans I doubt many people spend much time worrying about what Brian's non-appearance says about his public image or state of mind.  Most of them probably either think he's a sixty-nine year old rock star who couldn't be bothered to show up at an awards show or if they are a bit more informed about his life view him as a recluse.  Both of which are true.

For me The Beach Boys have already had their reunion and recognition moment post Carl and Dennis passing and it happened several years ago on the rooftop of Capitol Records for the "Sounds Of Summer" double platinum certification.  For me that was a heck of a lot more significant and classy than either of these events had the potential to be with the group being recognized atop the record company which they helped establish into a genuine sixties powerhouse.  

[drbeachboy]

The Beach Boys as a band are going to get their props over the next year, whether Brian chooses to attend events or not. The band has a very long history of Brian not participating in live events. None of this surprises me even a little bit. As has been discussed numerous times here on this board, the Boys have a way of always choosing the worst possible option when making band decisions. Why should the Reunion stuff be any different? In my opinion, Brian's management leaves a lot to be desired.

[Ron]

My take: Award ceremonies are for the young anyhow.  "Young Hollywood" or whatever they call it these days.  I understand that the California Hall Of Fame is a different scene all together as it skews an older crowd but generally speaking I was kind of happy that The Beach Boys didn't show up at the Grammy announcement show.  I mean Lady GaGa and whomever else they had up there as their headliners, it would have been embarrassing to have a band the stature and significance of The Beach Boys show up and be garnish on the plate to a bunch of acts who quite frankly aren't and would never be in their league.  

As far as how Brian Wilson looks by not appearing at these events?  I don't think it matters.  Brian Wilson is sixty-nine years old, a member of the rock and roll hall of fame, arguably the greatest talent of his generation.  Does it really matter whether or not he turns up at a given awards ceremony in 2011?  The music industry has always been dominated by youth whether it be youthful artists or youthful consumers.  I doubt if the majority of the current music buying public really give a stuff about Brian Wilson or The Beach Boys for that matter and believe it or not outside of Beach Boys fans I doubt many people spend much time worrying about what Brian's non-appearance says about his public image or state of mind.  Most of them probably either think he's a sixty-nine year old rock star who couldn't be bothered to show up at an awards show or if they are a bit more informed about his life view him as a recluse.  Both of which are true.

For me The Beach Boys have already had their reunion and recognition moment post Carl and Dennis passing and it happened several years ago on the rooftop of Capitol Records for the "Sounds Of Summer" double platinum certification.  For me that was a heck of a lot more significant and classy than either of these events had the potential to be with the group being recognized atop the record company which they helped establish into a genuine sixties powerhouse.  

It's not about how he appears to the record buying public for me, I'm just saying they put on a big event with a lot of classy people there to honor what he's accomplished as a californian and he can't be bothered to show up.  He showed up for the record event, but that was because he was making money doing it.  If Carlos Santana wants to give me a thank you award, Im gonna show up.  just sayin.  If they're honoring Clint Eastwood, and ask me to be honored too, i'm going to show up out of respect for them and also Clint Eastwood.  ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS DRIVE TO SAN FRANCISCO.  It's not even a long drive.  

[Mikie]

Sacramento. That would be a little more than an hour past San Fransicko. Besides, he doesn't drive that far from L.A.

[JohnMill]

My take: Award ceremonies are for the young anyhow.  "Young Hollywood" or whatever they call it these days.  I understand that the California Hall Of Fame is a different scene all together as it skews an older crowd but generally speaking I was kind of happy that The Beach Boys didn't show up at the Grammy announcement show.  I mean Lady GaGa and whomever else they had up there as their headliners, it would have been embarrassing to have a band the stature and significance of The Beach Boys show up and be garnish on the plate to a bunch of acts who quite frankly aren't and would never be in their league.  

As far as how Brian Wilson looks by not appearing at these events?  I don't think it matters.  Brian Wilson is sixty-nine years old, a member of the rock and roll hall of fame, arguably the greatest talent of his generation.  Does it really matter whether or not he turns up at a given awards ceremony in 2011?  The music industry has always been dominated by youth whether it be youthful artists or youthful consumers.  I doubt if the majority of the current music buying public really give a stuff about Brian Wilson or The Beach Boys for that matter and believe it or not outside of Beach Boys fans I doubt many people spend much time worrying about what Brian's non-appearance says about his public image or state of mind.  Most of them probably either think he's a sixty-nine year old rock star who couldn't be bothered to show up at an awards show or if they are a bit more informed about his life view him as a recluse.  Both of which are true.

For me The Beach Boys have already had their reunion and recognition moment post Carl and Dennis passing and it happened several years ago on the rooftop of Capitol Records for the "Sounds Of Summer" double platinum certification.  For me that was a heck of a lot more significant and classy than either of these events had the potential to be with the group being recognized atop the record company which they helped establish into a genuine sixties powerhouse.  

It's not about how he appears to the record buying public for me, I'm just saying they put on a big event with a lot of classy people there to honor what he's accomplished as a californian and he can't be bothered to show up.  He showed up for the record event, but that was because he was making money doing it.  If Carlos Santana wants to give me a thank you award, Im gonna show up.  just sayin.  If they're honoring Clint Eastwood, and ask me to be honored too, i'm going to show up out of respect for them and also Clint Eastwood.  ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS DRIVE TO SAN FRANCISCO.  It's not even a long drive.  

It's not about physical distance.  The man is a recluse period.  I don't know if you saw the recent SMiLE record signing that was posted on YouTube but to me Brian Wilson looked extremely uncomfortable doing a public appearance.  Now maybe I'm 100% wrong on that but that is just based upon what my eyes told me.  Now you might also factor in that this particular awards ceremony involved The Beach Boys, a topic which Brian has been prickly about putting in the present tense since the passing of his brothers and well I personally wasn't surprised he was a no show.

[Mikie]

Recluse? Brian? Nah, that's a bit of an exaggeration.

And the YouTube video of Brian at the Smile signing. Are you talking about Long Beach? 'Cause no cameras were allowed at the S.F. signing, unless somebody pulled a cell phone out on the sly....

[JohnMill]

Recluse? Brian? Nah, that's a bit of an exaggeration.

And the YouTube video of Brian at the Smile signing. Are you talking about Long Beach? 'Cause no cameras were allowed at the S.F. signing, unless somebody pulled a cell phone out on the sly....

I'm speaking of the one that took place the day of the record's release.  I stand by my statement that Brian's a recluse.  He's not Greta Garbo by any means but to me he still falls into that general category.  Not that that is a bad thing mind you.

[Mikie]

The November 1 Smile release day signing event with Brian Wilson was at Fingerprints Records in Long Beach. He hung in there like a trooper, just like he did in S.F. He was happier than hell when it was over, yes. But who else is going to help promote and increase the sales of the Smile release? Mike? Maybe. Al? Maybe. But it's essentially Brian's record and he's the one who will draw a crowd and sell more records.

If you were to call Brian a recluse in the early 70's, I'd agree with you. Last I heard, he gets out and runs around the park and visits the deli just about every day when he's at home. He drives around in his own car. His wife doesn't let him sit on his ass for very long from what I hear - playing with kids and dogs will do that to you. When he's on the road he goes out wih Jeff and the boys.

The event in Sacratomato that this thread is all about. Mike has a home in Santa Barbara and a home 2 hours away from Sacramento in Tahoe, so it's easier for him to be there. For Al, it's a two hour drive - no big deal. He made the Berkeley signing last April in 1 1/2 hours. Brian would have to fly in. I give credit to Dave for flying into Cali - pretty far from Connecticut! Maybe he was invited up to Mike's house for reunion talk or something.    Like I said above, Brian coulda/shoulda made it, unless he had a prior engagement. My gut feeling is that he's not real comfortable around Mike and Al, but I could be wrong there. I hope I am.

[drbeachboy]

Nah, a recluse would not have done what Brian has done over these many years. Shy, feel awkward in the limelight, have stage fright, yes. Definitely not your typical rock star personality.

[Zander]

Already have - both, I'll swap my job for his job and rates of pay. I wouldn't choose to leave a no. 1 band leaving behind fame & fortune...

Who are you to judge what Murry was putting David, who for just a kid at the time, through? Or his parents' decision to take him out of the group because Murry was f*cking him out of a fair amount of money?

If someone is royally f*cking you over, I wouldn't just accept that. But then I know most people would and do, albeit likely not on the scale that David went through.

Who am I? I'm a fan like everybody else on this board who's read enough about the BBs to form an opinion on the subject. If he felt he'd been pushed out and screwed then his parents should've stepped in.

Yeah David may not of got as much $ as he may have done but I bet he's earn't more than most here.

David's doesn't seem bitter about it - so why are you? Are you gonna get menstrual over the fact that Al was on a flat wage for years next?

[mammy blue]

"Reunion"? What reunion? There is no reunion without Dennis and Carl. Do you really think a real person would ever say something like:

"You know, that Brian Wilson seems very talented, but how could he deprive us of seeing him on stage again with Mike Love and Al Jardine? Maybe I was wrong about him".

I suggest we start another thread lamenting that Paul and Ringo aren't doing a "reunion" tour. Don't they care about the fans?

Quick question regarding Reunion for you. Was my family reunion invalidated because my father, who passed away in 1977, was not there to attend? Should a family, ex-school mates, band members not get together because some members die or don't care to attend? The Beach Boys have a lot to celebrate and they should get together if they choose to want to. Dennis and Carl will be celebrated, because they too were brothers, cousins and friends.

Family get-togethers and artistic/performance related endeavors are two completely different kettles of fish. So, to clarify, I am not invalidating the idea of any old friends ever meeting each other again for any reason.  

[Andrew G. Doe]

As far as how Brian Wilson looks by not appearing at these events?  I don't think it matters.  Brian Wilson is sixty-nine years old, a member of the rock and roll hall of fame, arguably the greatest talent of his generation.  Does it really matter whether or not he turns up at a given awards ceremony in 2011?  

I'm willing to bet the farm, the college fund, several major organs, my mortal soul* and my first-born that if, say, Brian, David & Alan had turned up, Mike would have been crucified for a no-show. Anyone who says any different is lying, because we all know that's exactly what would have happened. Brian was in the area less than two days previously. Get a suite, stay over. It looks bad, period.

[* - this is a lie, as we all know I don't have one  ]

[Andrew G. Doe]

I stand by my statement that Brian's a recluse.  He's not Greta Garbo by any means but to me he still falls into that general category. 

Funny sort of recluse that's played nearly 450 concerts in four continents over he last 10 years. Sure, Brian's a homebody, but a recluse he ain't - eats breakfast at a local diner, walks in a local park. Suggest you look up the meaning of the word.

[drbeachboy]

"Reunion"? What reunion? There is no reunion without Dennis and Carl. Do you really think a real person would ever say something like:

"You know, that Brian Wilson seems very talented, but how could he deprive us of seeing him on stage again with Mike Love and Al Jardine? Maybe I was wrong about him".

I suggest we start another thread lamenting that Paul and Ringo aren't doing a "reunion" tour. Don't they care about the fans?

Quick question regarding Reunion for you. Was my family reunion invalidated because my father, who passed away in 1977, was not there to attend? Should a family, ex-school mates, band members not get together because some members die or don't care to attend? The Beach Boys have a lot to celebrate and they should get together if they choose to want to. Dennis and Carl will be celebrated, because they too were brothers, cousins and friends.

Family get-togethers and artistic/performance related endeavors are two completely different kettles of fish. So, to clarify, I am not invalidating the idea of any old friends ever meeting each other again for any reason. 

Reunions are reunions. All I can tell you is if they do reunite, don't go and don't buy it. I have been a fan for 48 years and I would welcome it.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

As far as how Brian Wilson looks by not appearing at these events?  I don't think it matters.  Brian Wilson is sixty-nine years old, a member of the rock and roll hall of fame, arguably the greatest talent of his generation.  Does it really matter whether or not he turns up at a given awards ceremony in 2011? 

I'm willing to bet the farm, the college fund, several major organs, my mortal soul* and my first-born that if, say, Brian, David & Alan had turned up, Mike would have been crucified for a no-show. Anyone who says any different is lying, because we all know that's exactly what would have happened. Brian was in the area less than two days previously. Get a suite, stay over. It looks bad, period.

[* - this is a lie, as we all know I don't have one  ]

Totally agree.  It's time for Brian to cement his legacy.  This doesn't help.  Maybe some people in the general public might think, "Oh, Brian wasn't there.  Wasn't he the one who went mental and did all those drugs".

On the other hand, if they are planning a reunion, they may not want them all together until the big announcement.

Was nice to see Mike and Al talking.  Wonder how that went.

[JohnMill]

I stand by my statement that Brian's a recluse.  He's not Greta Garbo by any means but to me he still falls into that general category. 

Funny sort of recluse that's played nearly 450 concerts in four continents over he last 10 years. Sure, Brian's a homebody, but a recluse he ain't - eats breakfast at a local diner, walks in a local park. Suggest you look up the meaning of the word.

I know what a recluse is and in fact have several of them as intimate members of my family.  So we'll leave it at that.  As far as Mike being crucified if he no-showed while the others turned up, I would have to agree with you.  Mike Love is often vilified for things great and small by the Beach Boys fan community and Joe Public at large (check the YT channel lately?).   Brian on the other hand often gets a free pass for a lot of different reasons which I'm sure have been listed many times over by this point.

[Awesoman]

David never seems to complain about how he got screwed by Murry.  He seemingly, suffered in silence. 

Unlike Mike who always seemed to be whining how he wrote this and that and didn't get a writing credit.  I imagine, back in the day, David came up with an original lick or two but would never make a claim against Brian over songwriting credits.

There are certain ways of handling things in life and David always seems to take the high road.

Well when you write lyrics for major hits like "California Girls" and not get any songwriting credit, I imagine you'd be a little sour about it too. 

[SurfRiderHawaii]

David never seems to complain about how he got screwed by Murry.  He seemingly, suffered in silence. 

Unlike Mike who always seemed to be whining how he wrote this and that and didn't get a writing credit.  I imagine, back in the day, David came up with an original lick or two but would never make a claim against Brian over songwriting credits.

There are certain ways of handling things in life and David always seems to take the high road.

Well when you write lyrics for major hits like "California Girls" and not get any songwriting credit, I imagine you'd be a little sour about it too. 

Sure, Murry screwed Mike too.  But ALL those interviews by Mike.  But he also made claims for songs he had little to do with - ie: Pet Sounds album.  Taking the high road is not suing for a song credit you suggest two words for.

My point is, unlike Mike and Pete Best, David didn't take to the press to wage a campaign of whining.  And Lord knows David did a million times more than Pete Best.
And as Jon points out, David could have sued Brian for some credits and didn't.

But yes, certainly Mike deserves his "California Girls" credit.  But the guy was suing over everything.  Even Brian recording Smile.