Brian's production tricks: things over looked in BWPS and many Smile playlists

[Mahalo]

That'd be pretty damn cool if they did. 

[sofonanm]

(I think) there was a post in this thread from someone replying to me about the whole CIFOTM stand up bass thing, where the poster said that they didn't know how that particular sound was achieved. I can't find the post but here's my reply:

The same bass sound (more or less) is all over Pet Sounds. Take the stand up bass on "You Still Believe In me" and give it a listen - it has the same quality. I think it's just the reverb chambers in the studio they used. What was used on BWPS? Digital reverb and delay? I dunno. But anyway, just imagine YSBIM without that big bass sound that carries the song like an elephant plodding along and you get an idea of how much was lost in translating CIFOTM (at least the stand up bass bits) to 2004.

[Dancing Bear]

Ok, time for us to meditate.

I reread the whole thread. Sheriff John Stone thinks that BWPS is musically subpar, that Brian didn't give a sh*t about it while it was assembled and recorded by Darian & Co and the whole project / PR campaign smelled funny.

Ok, what's so hurtful about those opinions? Many here agree with him. So, he guesses what's in Brian's mind... We do it all the time with every Beach Boy, in every thread. If you think BWPS is the best album ever made or something like that, so be it. Those points shouldn't ruin your apreciation for the album. No reason to take it on a personal level. BWPS is as open to criticism as SIP. Period. No two ways around it. Deal with it.

Seriously, this thread sucks worse than sampled harpsichords. And we know how those are EVIL.

[Mahalo]

Ok, time for us to meditate.

I reread the whole thread. Sheriff John Stone thinks that BWPS is musically subpar, that Brian didn't give a merda about it while it was assembled and recorded by Darian & Co and the whole project / PR campaign smelled funny.

Ok, what's so hurtful about those opinions? Many here agree with him. So, he guesses what's in Brian's mind... We do it all the time with every Beach Boy, in every thread. If you think BWPS is the best album ever made or something like that, so be it. Those points shouldn't ruin your apreciation for the album. No reason to take it on a personal level. BWPS is as open to criticism as SIP. Period. No two ways around it. Deal with it.

Seriously, this thread sucks worse than sampled harpsichords. And we know how those are EVIL.

Sampled Harpsichords suck donkey nuts, that's the truth. However, it seems as though some would argue that BWPS is just as bad as SIP, or that it is unworthy as an item soley based on comparison to the original tapes. Maybe, maybe not. What I think those who are trying to validate BWPS are saying is just forget the stories, original recordings, and all the bogus-ness, and just appreciate BWPS for the good music that it is. Perhaps that's too much to ask for.

[Mahalo]

But anyway, just imagine YSBIM without that big bass sound that carries the song like an elephant plodding along .

I'd rather not...

[Dancing Bear]

Sampled Harpsichords suck donkey nuts, that's the truth. However, it seems as though some would argue that BWPS is just as bad as SIP, or that it is unworthy as an item soley based on comparison to the original tapes. Maybe, maybe not. What I think those who are trying to validate BWPS are saying is just forget the stories, original recordings, and all the bogus-ness, and just appreciate BWPS for the good music that it is. Perhaps that's too much to ask for.

Of course BWPS doesn't make me cringe or throw the stereo through the window. It's very listenable, poor vocals and all. I tried to listen to it in 2004, yeah, forgetting the stories, original recordings, and all the bogus-ness. First, when I listen to the tracks that were completed in 66-71, I feel like it's a waste of time. "Why am I listening to this inferior version of Cabinessence? I'd rather listen to 20/20, Bluebirds and all". The tracks that were completed now and don't have direct competition, now those are interesting. Plimouth Rock, CIFTTM and Song for Children. Yeah. Good stuff. The rest, I didn't care for them in their barebones boot version anyway, and I didn't feel anything added made them better. Well, I kinda liked Dada, but I don't like the new vocal melody. Now, the three movement structure. Yeah, Let's stop wondering if it was designed by Dom Priore, Darian, Brian or Ricky Fataar. You know what? I still don't care for it. With the exception of the nice flow in the second movement, it sounds to me like a Thick-as-a-Brickish fan mix tape. It doesn't add anything IMO. It doesn't BOTHER me, but then, there goes through the window any motivation I'd have to endure the inferior rerecorded versions for the sake of a "completed work". About Brian and the project's personal triumph angle, let's say I only care about his music. But good for him, anyway.

There you have it. You BWPS lovers can say that I have no taste, but please cut this crap about prejudice. How would you feel if I said you only don't care about SIP because Brian isn't in it?

[Sam_BFC]

What was used on BWPS? Digital reverb and delay? I dunno.

I think I read Mark Linnett say they used sampled reverb of the original echo chambers.

[phirnis]

For me, it's not so much about Brian's own involvement as he didn't seem to be capable of reaching aesthetic decisions some of his most dedicated hardcore fans would be perfectly happy with anyway (I'm thinking of GIOMH's production and sloppy vocal performances or even calling BWPS a "three-part rock opera", which might've hurt the feelings of those who consider The Beach Boys and Good Vibrations/Smile in particular to be the complete opposite of seventies prog rock kitsch). It's the beautiful live performances I do remember with great fondness, no matter if Darian Sahanaja might have pulled most of the strings when it came to the sequencing of the show. After all, he's quite a gifted person, "faceless" or not.
Some postings however do pose the interesting question if the world got more of a real Smile in 1993 (Good Vibrations box set) than in 2004, the answer to which depends on whether you like to view Smile as completed or whether you prefer to let the legend continue. As it is, I too prefer the Beach Boys versions of both Cabinessence and Surf's Up over the 2004 re-recordings, which do not have as much of an atmosphere of their own I'm afraid.

[Mr. Cohen]

I think this needs to made a new topic, but by somebody else: DARIAN'S "DOO-YOOB": Did it kill BWPS before it was barely even started?

[Chris Brown]

I think this needs to made a new topic, but by somebody else: DARIAN'S "DOO-YOOB": Did it kill BWPS before it was barely even started?

No, but it helped to ruin Heroes and Villains for me.

I would laugh if there was actually a thread created on that. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

DARIAN'S "DOO-YOOB": Did it kill BWPS before it was barely even started?

I have absolutely no problem with the job Darian did with BWPS. None. He did a tremendous job, better than anyone could've expected. He did what he was paid to do; he earned his money. I have very few complaints with his contributions to BWPS.

However, I was slightly surprised that he accepted the job - specifically, the re-recording of the SMiLE songs - in the first place. Darian was a longtime SMiLE fan, so it must've broken his heart to re-record the tracks.

Darian, we want you to re-record "Our Prayer", replacing The Beach Boys' voices, and re-record "Cabinessence", replacing Carl Wilson's vocals.

Darian, we want you to replace Dennis Wilson's contribution to SMiLE, his soulful vocal on "You Are My Sunshine", and put in Brian's voice.

Darian, we want you to remove some lyrics from "Good Vibrations" and replace them with some early, demo lyrics. Oh, and also, would you please end the album with "Good Vibrations."

Darian, would you please eliminate all of Brian's fades, especially on "Cabinessence" and "Surf's Up", and have the songs come to an abrupt ending. Then after you do that, link the songs together, and come up with some new music while you're at it.

Darian, we're gonna change the album title, song titles, the art work, and credit Brian as producer. But don't worry, you'll get some credit, and we'll take care of you. We just don't want you to be upset when you see the final product.

I gotta hand it to Darian. Like I said, he did a fine, fine job. I just wonder if he ever considered passing on it.

[Wilsonista]

Not a chance.

He told a fan in 2003 before work started that he "wanted to f*** with the myth".

Does that sound like a guy with second thoughts?

[SG7]

As much as people do like to trash him, I do believe Darian was the best one for the job. There could have been someone else who could easily have REALLY messed it up & make people even more p'oed. I'm sure he had a lot of pressure on that project and he did what he could do.

[Dancing Bear]

It was like George Martin accepting to produce the Sgt Pepper Lonely Hearts Club Band soundtrack. Praphrasing: "Of course I had second thoughts about the project. But if I didn't do it, someone else would and I'd hate the results. I decided to do it myself and get very well paid for the job, which didn't hurt".

[sofonanm]

Has Darian ever posted here? What about anyone else from Brian's band?

Darian strikes me as an internet nerd. Someone should drag him over here for some good discussion.

Anyone know him? I guess he could be contacted through myspace...

[Jonathan Blum]

Darian, we want you to re-record "Our Prayer", replacing The Beach Boys' voices, and re-record "Cabinessence", replacing Carl Wilson's vocals.

And here we have it again:  nothing has been replaced.  "Prayer" is still available in its untouched box-set form.  Arguably the Beach Boys did more to "replace" the original before then, when the only version they made available for a quarter of a century was the overdubbed one in '69.  (And replacing the unreleased "Wonderful" with the Smiley Smile version is just mind-boggling.)  Brian, Darian, and company created a new version -- one which achieved what Brian couldn't in '67.  It stands alongside the original releases, not on top of their ruins.

Now, if people were making this argument about the only release of "Soul Searchin'" being the one with the other Beach Boys' vocals removed, I could understand that.  But with Smile, we've got our cake and we can eat it too...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Jonathan Blum]

Ok, time for us to meditate.

I reread the whole thread. Sheriff John Stone thinks that BWPS is musically subpar, that Brian didn't give a merda about it while it was assembled and recorded by Darian & Co and the whole project / PR campaign smelled funny.

Ok, what's so hurtful about those opinions? Many here agree with him.

Speaking for myself, it's the leap beyond that to the idea that many outside here agree with him which I was faulting.

For that matter, I'd even question the "many here", bit.  A few, loud people here agree with him -- but if you look at the poll even on this site, seriously about ten times as many people voted Smile 5/5 as gave it 2/5 or less.

Now, does that make the Sheriff's opinion or personal taste invalid?  Of course not -- there's plenty of room for different views, and anyone on any side of an issue can have an interesting insight.  But it means that anyone inventing an army of millions who stand behind those views is doing it without a leg to stand on.  That's all...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[SG7]

Has Darian ever posted here? What about anyone else from Brian's band?

Darian strikes me as an internet nerd. Someone should drag him over here for some good discussion.

Anyone know him? I guess he could be contacted through myspace...

No he hasn't, but a few of us around here have met him. He is a very cool guy and has 0 ego. Some people in Brian's band have posted a little in the past on other boards such as the blueboard, but unless they are under aliases I have yet to be known of their presence here. I wouldn't be surprised if they  wouldn't post here, considering sometimes the nature of threads.

[sofonanm]

Has Darian ever posted here? What about anyone else from Brian's band?

Darian strikes me as an internet nerd. Someone should drag him over here for some good discussion.

Anyone know him? I guess he could be contacted through myspace...

No he hasn't, but a few of us around here have met him. He is a very cool guy and has 0 ego. Some people in Brian's band have posted a little in the past on other boards such as the blueboard, but unless they are under aliases I have yet to be known of their presence here. I wouldn't be surprised if they  wouldn't post here, considering sometimes the nature of threads.

Time for me to be unmasked:

Ladies, gentlemen, I am......... Jeff Foskett, i.e., cookie monster.

Worship me, I sing "Don't Worry Baby".

 

[SG7]

Has Darian ever posted here? What about anyone else from Brian's band?

Darian strikes me as an internet nerd. Someone should drag him over here for some good discussion.

Anyone know him? I guess he could be contacted through myspace...

No he hasn't, but a few of us around here have met him. He is a very cool guy and has 0 ego. Some people in Brian's band have posted a little in the past on other boards such as the blueboard, but unless they are under aliases I have yet to be known of their presence here. I wouldn't be surprised if they  wouldn't post here, considering sometimes the nature of threads.

Time for me to be unmasked:

Ladies, gentlemen, I am......... Jeff Foskett, i.e., cookie monster.

Worship me, I sing "Don't Worry Baby".

 

 

[Mahalo]

SurferGirl7 is really Melinda....

[SG7]

SurferGirl7 is really Melinda....

You wish 

I think I have a better chance of being Darian's ex girlfriend....


 

[Mahalo]

I'm really Brad Pitt.

[SG7]

I'm really Brad Pitt.

We are getting off topic are we? Okay, how does Brad Pitt represent the downfall of BWPS anyone...?

[Dancing Bear]

Ok, time for us to meditate.

I reread the whole thread. Sheriff John Stone thinks that BWPS is musically subpar, that Brian didn't give a merda about it while it was assembled and recorded by Darian & Co and the whole project / PR campaign smelled funny.

Ok, what's so hurtful about those opinions? Many here agree with him.

Speaking for myself, it's the leap beyond that to the idea that many outside here agree with him which I was faulting.

For that matter, I'd even question the "many here", bit.  A few, loud people here agree with him -- but if you look at the poll even on this site, seriously about ten times as many people voted Smile 5/5 as gave it 2/5 or less.

Now, does that make the Sheriff's opinion or personal taste invalid?  Of course not -- there's plenty of room for different views, and anyone on any side of an issue can have an interesting insight.  But it means that anyone inventing an army of millions who stand behind those views is doing it without a leg to stand on.  That's all...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Mr. Blum, I thought you were gonna take a break from internet. Welcome back.

Ok then. The next time anyone puts BWPS down as the piece of crap, nadir of Brian's career, nuclear embarassment and shameless fraud it is, he/she'll make sure it's just one's opinion. And then we'll have world peace.