Charles Manson and Dennis Wilson

[Surfer]

First i have a video i saw on Youtube and this does not make any sense.  Watch the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I0v2bVX8j4

Questions

1- Why did Charles Manson have a song called Cease to Exist then he goes to Dennis Wilson and meets him for the first time and said i have song i want you to listen to then Dennis Wilson changes the song with new lyric's and renamed the song Never Learn Not To Love but my main question is this.  Why did Manson come to Dennis and threatend him about the song.

2- Why did Dennis want to change some of the Lyric's in this song?

3 What is this-   Manson explicitly told Wilson that the words were not to be altered, though he could do what he liked with the music (in the event, the basic melody was largely unchanged

[hypehat]

Charlie & Dennis were actually pretty tight at this time - Manson was essentially living in his house, with 'the family'. Dennis talked about him in interviews a lot, said they would collaborate. He even recorded a bit in Brian's house, but no-one was impressed with it and the tapes were most likely destroyed when Charles Manson orchestrated a mass murder. Fair.

Dennis changed p much one line significantly - Cease to Resist instead of Cease To Exist. It certainly changes the meaning of the piece.

Charlie Manson was a crazy motherfucker. He did say 'never change the lyrics, the words are important, man - Don;t ever mess with my words', in tones befitting a psychopath.

Dennis eventually got away from Manson & Co (he just left his house, he couldn't even throw them out).

So keeping in mind that Charlie was insane and Dennis changed one word (and didn't credit him on it, but I think he was riled about the words), he went up to Dennis' house and threatened to murder his family when the song was released. Then he went and orchestrated a mass murder, and threatened him again whilst on the lam, I think?

That's p much the timeline as I understand it - you should watch the documentary about Dennis on youtube (called The Real Beach Boy) as it talks about it.

[Mike's Beard]

What I'll never understand is if Manson told Dennis specifically not to alter any of his lyrics why Dennis turned around and did the polar opposite.

[hypehat]

He changed a few letters! Maybe he didn't expect to threatened with murder as a consequence. He underestimated his craziness?

[Cabinessenceking]

sh*t, imagine if the Wilsons had been killed by Manson. That would be the worst even in music history. It would be infamous beyond comparison. This is another huge 'what if' which thnakfully never happened. Given the insanity of Manson, this was a real danger to the group.

[pixletwin]

Dennis really did screw Manson over. You. Don't. Mess. with the. Cray-cray.

[TV Forces]

3 What is this-   Manson explicitly told Wilson that the words were not to be altered, though he could do what he liked with the music (in the event, the basic melody was largely unchanged

Have you heard the Charles Manson version?  It sounds nothing like the Beach Boys version in any way.  How can you say the melody was largely unchanged?

What I'll never understand is if Manson told Dennis specifically not to alter any of his lyrics why Dennis turned around and did the polar opposite.

Because Charles Manson wasn't Dennis' boss and he was under no obligation to obey him.  Dennis did what he could to make it more Beach Boys friendly.  It's not like Manson wrote the song for the guys and said not to change it.  It was a tune Manson had that Dennis took and rewrote.

[pixletwin]

Melody is essentially the same from the Charles Manson to the BB version. It's the arrangement that is vastly different. Manson's is essentially a folk/blues arrangement. But I don't see how you can say the melody is totally different. It is clearly the same song.

[Cabinessenceking]

sh*t, imagine if the Wilsons had been killed by Manson. That would be a stand out event in music history. It would be infamous beyond comparison. This is another huge 'what if' which thankfully never happened. Given the insanity of Manson, this was a real danger to the group.

[alf wiedersehen]

The book "Helter Skelter" has some great info on the Dennis and Charlie relationship. It talks about Dennis a good bit, but I wasn't that big a fan of The Beach Boys when I first read it, so it didn't seem that important to me.
So, I can't really remember any of the Dennis stuff. But, it's a pretty good book and very interesting.

[Dr. Tim]

There are a few threads on this, which go into some detail, even beyond Bugliosi's book on Manson.  One guy with a great story is Stephen Desper (who recorded at least one of Manson's sessions).  Desper tells it best but - Short version:  Desper impressed Manson by showing he knew how to handle a switchblade properly, so Manson backed off the crazy and did what he was asked.  The material was only fair and Manson was too out-there to do retakes or fixes.