Mike and Bruce Tour 2014

[The LEGENDARY OSD]

This is the most tired argument ever on the boards. Can anyone think of a single reason why I shouldn't lock this before it turns into the usual bitchfest? Right now, I can't.

I'm not going to get into any more Smile – related discussion with Pinder pertaining to this thread. Pinder and I can disagree, although I would be curious to know if anyone else has any thoughts/discussion about my theory.  And maybe it's a half – assed theory at that. I am not in anyway trying to be argumentative, just to initiate intelligent discussion.

No, it's a legitimate theory and touches upon something of a life basic, you know?

Problem is, it's been discussed to death and the conversation has nowhere to go really because Mike insists on not officially apologizing and Brian and The Beach Boys saga insists on moving along regardless.

Maybe if Brian, on the other hand, came out repeatedly in interviews asking Mike for an apology, we'd get somewhere..... Think about it.

Pinder - nothing against you personally, and we can discuss further in PM if you want, but I'll just say one more thing here - I can think of examples of indirect communication (Brian's specialty) of implying an apology might be appreciated, such as Brian's mentioning Mike on Beautiful Dreamer (2004), Brian's response on BBC Radio Front Row Daily (from 2011), and I'm sure there are more examples. If an apology or a minor expression by Mike of regret for inadvertently hurting feelings happened, and it was sincere, it might have led to better communication/relationship between the guys, maybe more trust and maybe 2011/2012 "alone in a room" collaboration. These guys have a messed up relationship for multiple reasons, and that's one of them. That's alls I'm sayin'.

Well, this is why direct communication is a good thing to attempt here and there. And Brian has plenty of people more than willing to do such a thing for him.

And if I were Mike, seeing Beautiful Dreamer would have resulted in anything but a heartfelt apology attempt.....

BTW, why should Mike have to apologize for having questions or issues about some lyrics he's supposed to sing? .... Brian held all the cards in that situation, where it mattered. If Mike's attitude was such a big deal, who cares? Just have Dennis, Bruce, or Al, or Carl, or Brian himself sing the lines.

Pinder, you are the MAN!! That is, without a doubt, the best idea you could have ever come up with! And Brian could have easily done that and perhaps Mike would have quit which would have certainly created a huge void on this and other boards. Ahhh, just think of it...Smile, no Smiley Smile, just Brian going forward with no doubts or resistance from someone who let it all go to his head for little or no reason. Hang on to your everlovin' ego, Mike.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

This is the most tired argument ever on the boards. Can anyone think of a single reason why I shouldn't lock this before it turns into the usual bitchfest? Right now, I can't.

I'm not going to get into any more Smile – related discussion with Pinder pertaining to this thread. Pinder and I can disagree, although I would be curious to know if anyone else has any thoughts/discussion about my theory.  And maybe it's a half – assed theory at that. I am not in anyway trying to be argumentative, just to initiate intelligent discussion.

No, it's a legitimate theory and touches upon something of a life basic, you know?

Problem is, it's been discussed to death and the conversation has nowhere to go really because Mike insists on not officially apologizing and Brian and The Beach Boys saga insists on moving along regardless.

Maybe if Brian, on the other hand, came out repeatedly in interviews asking Mike for an apology, we'd get somewhere..... Think about it.

Pinder - nothing against you personally, and we can discuss further in PM if you want, but I'll just say one more thing here - I can think of examples of indirect communication (Brian's specialty) of implying an apology might be appreciated, such as Brian's mentioning Mike on Beautiful Dreamer (2004), Brian's response on BBC Radio Front Row Daily (from 2011), and I'm sure there are more examples. If an apology or a minor expression by Mike of regret for inadvertently hurting feelings happened, and it was sincere, it might have led to better communication/relationship between the guys, maybe more trust and maybe 2011/2012 "alone in a room" collaboration. These guys have a messed up relationship for multiple reasons, and that's one of them. That's alls I'm sayin'.

Well, this is why direct communication is a good thing to attempt here and there. And Brian has plenty of people more than willing to do such a thing for him.

And if I were Mike, seeing Beautiful Dreamer would have resulted in anything but a heartfelt apology attempt.....

BTW, why should Mike have to apologize for having questions or issues about some lyrics he's supposed to sing? .... Brian held all the cards in that situation, where it mattered. If Mike's attitude was such a big deal, who cares? Just have Dennis, Bruce, or Al, or Carl, or Brian himself sing the lines.

Pinder, you are the MAN!! That is, without a doubt, the best idea you could have ever come up with! And Brian could have easily done that and perhaps Mike would have quit which would have certainly created a huge void on this and other boards. Ahhh, just think of it...Smile, no Smiley Smile, just Brian going forward with no doubts or resistance from someone who let it all go to his head for little or no reason. Hang on to your everlovin' ego, Mike.

See ........ ultimately, there is little point in attempting to discuss these things.

[halblaineisgood]

.

[startBBtoday]

It's not drivel, it's the truth about a sad and insecure man you carry water for to keep him as a source.

I have no idea how you can listen to Beach Boys songs given how much hatred you have for Mike. Do you cringe every time you hear his voice?

[Micha]

Mike knows he is a sup-par songwriter, still he demands to write with Brian. When this did not come about he pulled the plug on the reunion (this is one of the reasons at least). How mature is that?

You acknowledge you are not good enough. Others realize the same. You retaliate by dumping your friends and colleagues. The band did not elevate Mike high enough for his liking, they elevated Brian higher. Mike punished them and now Mike is yet again the pivotal figure in the touring version of The Beach Boys.

Mike could not compete with Brian. So he eliminated Brian. How. Mature. Is. That?

If what you believe were true - it would be immature. But taking into account other circumstances like Mike regularly expressing his awe for Brian's abilities and not only his own contribution to the BBs' success or the possibility that Mike just likes touring with his usual band more than he liked the C50 configuration leads me to believe that your viewpoint is pretty onedimensional. Why do you need to hate somebody? Why do you need one guy to be the hero and one the villain? Neither Brian nor Mike are all good or all bad. I mean, I'd have preferred them to go on together too, but I don't project my anger about that not happening onto fantasies about my perceived culprit's personality faults.

Yes, I think Mike pulled the plug on the C50 configuration. But there's multiple possible reasons for him doing that. And I don't know the truth. Your scenario seems unlikely to me.

[Scott]

This used to be a great board, with knowledgeable people posting and sharing their info.  I've made some friends here.

Now, every thread I read becomes "Mike ruined SMILE, Mike ruined C50, Mike shouldn't have the license".

Anyone else notice that? ;-)

Scott

[Lee Marshall]

Hard to miss it here.  I was hoping to get some info, informed opinion and maybe a little advice and all of a sudden off goes the thread and it's Brian vs Mike all over again.  [and people here have the 'nerve' to suggest that the blue board is a little Briancentric?]

From what I understand the 50th anniversary tour ran its entire course.  Played every date agreed to.  And then it was over.  Sharing the proceeds with that many pie slices was likely costing the touring Beach Boys money...It's not like Brian couldn't muster up a little action...and a backing band and take Al and David along for a ride.

Speaking directly with Mike about 3 1/2 weeks ago...I have some reason to believe that there could well be more to come....collectively.  At no time did he give the impression that the concept of entire group projects was over, under, sideways, done.

Anyway...Now I've walked out into the middle of a street fight when I had decided to take the long way home.  I fully expect to have my nose broken any time now.

[Mendota Heights]

.

[Cam Mott]

This used to be a great board, with knowledgeable people posting and sharing their info.  I've made some friends here.

Now, every thread I read becomes "Mike ruined SMILE, Mike ruined C50, Mike shouldn't have the license".

Anyone else notice that? ;-)

Scott

Wwwwwhhhhhaaaaa?? 

Somebody who knows him and works with him ought to chime in once and a while. (innocent eyes)

[drbeachboy]

This used to be a great board, with knowledgeable people posting and sharing their info.  I've made some friends here.

Now, every thread I read becomes "Mike ruined SMILE, Mike ruined C50, Mike shouldn't have the license".

Anyone else notice that? ;-)

Scott

Well, I've come to realize over the years that this place is not a fan of the band, maybe for the music, but definitely not for the band personnel. Similar to the Beach Boys themselves, we are fractured when it comes to how we feel about each of the guys. With Mike, this place is all about perpetuating the myths that have dogged him since Pet Sounds was recorded and no amount of truth or fact seems to have any effect. Like you, I have noticed that the most innocuous of threads always degenerates into Mike vs Brian debates. Lately I post here very little. Slowly it is driving me away. So Scott, you are not alone in your thinking.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

This used to be a great board, with knowledgeable people posting and sharing their info.  I've made some friends here.

Now, every thread I read becomes "Mike ruined SMILE, Mike ruined C50, Mike shouldn't have the license".

Anyone else notice that? ;-)

Scott

Definitely have. What really bothers me is when some posters make it personal,  and start saying things that they'd never have the balls to say in person.  It's one thing to criticize career decisions but some people take it to a whole other level.

[Lee Marshall]

Well Billy...you KNOW where it all started...And it celebrated its 50th anniversay THIS year..."Cassius" Love vs. "Sonny" Wilson"   Love/B. Wilson group - spoken word 3:30 .

Mickey Mouse with a sore throat indeed!  Nose on the critical list?  My gawd...we never had a chance.

[Rocker]

I said it before a while ago. Mike has probably no clue about Brian's decease(s).

I think Mike knows a lot about Brian's condition. I've heard/read him talk about it frequently. However, I think that Mike thinks that Brian can still function at a high level in the studio despite his problems.

I realize that many posters on this board have and will find anything they can think of to criticize Mike Love. I mean, just yesterday we found out that Mike didn't mention Brian's TM certification in 1966 because he (Mike) didn't want to admit that Brian was into TM first! But, I am surprised (well, not really) that you think Mike is naive in thinking that Brian's condition would NOT be a detriment to Mike working with Brian in the studio. On a weekly basis we are told by collaborators, duet partners, and friends how Brian "still has it" and is doing amazing things and blowing minds - just like he used to. But Mike is wrong for thinking the same thing?

No. All I ever said and meant is that Mike imo probably has wrong expectations as to what Brian is able. I only tried to defend him because in his generation those kind of syndroms or whatever Brian has weren't taken as seriously and treated as carefully as they are now. Add to that that more or less every major "therapy" Brian had during the Beach Boys' career was either drugs or being cotrolled via drugs by Landy and that the treatment Brian gets now wasn't started until the mid 90s afaik (so Mike and the other guys couldn't really make arrangements with it) and you see why he probably is quite sensitive when it comes to that point and maybe a little over-the-top. That was all I said. And that Al probably got a look into that while touring with Brian in 2006/07 which explains why he talked about Brian still being cotrolled before their tours but after that never mentioned anything like that again. But if someone wants to see an anti-Mike posting in that, what can I do? I don't see nothing of that nature in there.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Well Billy...you KNOW where it all started...And it celebrated its 50th anniversay THIS year..."Cassius" Love vs. "Sonny" Wilson"   Love/B. Wilson group - spoken word 3:30 .

Mickey Mouse with a sore throat indeed!  Nose on the critical list?  My gawd...we never had a chance.

[SMiLE Brian]

The turn in this thread is only natural since there has been an overall negativity aimed at anything related to Brian since the summertime. It seems to be an agenda when on one thread alone there are 40 some odd pages of posts badmouthing BW in a variety of ways. Let me break them down:

1. The Love and Mercy movie- This project has been trashed from the get go for a variety of reasons, from it being a "BW vanity project" that trashes the other BB’s, to the woodie in a 10 second clip not being accurate enough, to calling the actors in it "has beens" and so on, when in fact this movie opened at the Toronto Film Festival to rave reviews.

2. Brian is controlled by his wife/Joe Thomas- This theme has been repeated ad nauseum by some posters, I would say increasingly since the summertime. Implying BW doesn’t make his own musical decisions is almost a sick fantasy , as some posters want a BW/ML -BB's album more than anything. BW was more than willing to record another BB's album until Mike ended the C50; to say that BW is not in charge of his creative and personal life is irresponsible at best.

3. The Autobio/Jason Fine- The premise by some that this book will be another hack job like the last one, written by Todd Gold without any input by Brian, is like wishful thinking. Jason Fine is probably hard at work with a cooperative Brian, in order to get a good summary of Brian's life. This is important, as the last book was such a Landy fiasco which had very little to do with reality.

4. The various attempts by some posters to rewrite history ; from the end of C50 , to the Wally Heider episode; it appears to be an agenda to change the history from where blame shifts from Mike to Brian on these events in Beach Boys history.

5. The Smiley Smile message board- This place seems to have an odd anti-BW outlook in some circles. This vocal minority was finally pushed back yesterday by annoyed BW fans who had enough. The response was to clog the board with more anti-BW stuff that was not related to the topic at hand. This mucking up of the board was to hide the fact that Mike Love had said some really negative stuff in the Tanglewood interview. His sentiments were oddly the same as the small vocal group that derailed the board yesterday....

[Shady]

Scott, it may seem that way but a lot of the Mike talk is not without facts.

Mike was a major player in all those topics and he wasn't quiet about it.

[ESQ Editor]

The point of this message board, as I understand it, is to discuss the music. 

[ontor pertawst]

This is a great board, with knowledgeable people posting and sharing their info.  I've made some friends here.

The only time the threads didn't turn into "Mike ruined SMILE, Mike ruined C50, Mike shouldn't have the license" with numbing regularity was those months in 2012 when everybody played niced and people complimented Mike on his bass vocals and how he'd help Brian out and be really nice on camera and say stuff like the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Anyone else notice that? ;-)

 (Ok, he did get ribbed for the yellow sunday outfit. And sure, some guy probably thought he was the personification of evil or "a demon in human form" in the words of Lorren Daro. But the tone of the comments, press coverage, and fan discussion was the best he'd gotten in ages, right? Anyway, the fella just puts his foot in his mouth and appears a bit tone deaf in the press... causing most of this jabber. If he just restricted himself to doing pantomime dancing to his songs and actually being positive instead of claiming he was, there would be a lot less sneering going on and cranky youtube comments. You just don't criticize people for their prescription meds in the press unless you're some sort of doctor with any kind of medical training not provided by a man wearing an oversized napkin if you don't want to come off sounding as condescending and crazy as say, Tom Cruise re: Brooke Shields. So cut it out or you'll get the likes of Oprah upset, Mike! Queen Latifah alone won't help you flog books.)

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

The point of this message board, as I understand it, is to discuss the music. 

That was my impression too.

[Pretty Funky]

General On Topic Discussions
A place to talk about The Beach Boys.


Not according to the Home Page but we get your drift.

[donald]

Scott,

Regarding your observation, much of what you say is true.  Not just about Mike, but also about Brian and others.  God help Bruce and Al for what is said about them on these boards.

On the other hand, some of us have been very positive and had nothing but good things to say about the very fine band the touring Beachboys have become as a result of your involvement and Mike's ongoing  leadership. 

I think too many people have developed a face book mentality of attacking people from behind the safety of their computer screens with no regard for the bad feelings generated.  Worse than talking behind someone's back IMO. 

Best Wishes

Don

[GhostyTMRS]

5. The Smiley Smile message board- This place seems to have an odd anti-BW outlook in some circles. This vocal minority was finally pushed back yesterday by annoyed BW fans who had enough. The response was to clog the board with more anti-BW stuff that was not related to the topic at hand. This mucking up of the board was to hide the fact that Mike Love had said some really negative stuff in the Tanglewood interview. His sentiments were oddly the same as the small vocal group that derailed the board yesterday....

No this place is pretty much anti-Beach Boys all the time. You conveniently forgot to mention that nearly every single release, announcement or activity connected to Brian Wilson and/or The Beach Boys is trashed. It's the nature of this board. It's a playpen for malcontents.
This juvenile garbage about secret agendas and conspiracy theories...wild eyed members frothing at the mouth and claiming Mike Love is secretly paying off people to destroy Brian's career shows an almost profound lack of self-awareness as they routinely engage in the exact same behavior, locked in some sort of imaginary war.
If someone were a Brian Wilson or Beach Boys fan I sure as hell wouldn't tell them to come here for anything useful..at least not anymore.

[drbeachboy]

5. The Smiley Smile message board- This place seems to have an odd anti-BW outlook in some circles. This vocal minority was finally pushed back yesterday by annoyed BW fans who had enough. The response was to clog the board with more anti-BW stuff that was not related to the topic at hand. This mucking up of the board was to hide the fact that Mike Love had said some really negative stuff in the Tanglewood interview. His sentiments were oddly the same as the small vocal group that derailed the board yesterday....

No this place is pretty much anti-Beach Boys all the time. You conveniently forgot to mention that nearly every single release, announcement or activity connected to Brian Wilson and/or The Beach Boys is trashed. It's the nature of this board. It's a playpen for malcontents.
This juvenile garbage about secret agendas and conspiracy theories...wild eyed members frothing at the mouth and claiming Mike Love is secretly paying off people to destroy Brian's career shows an almost profound lack of self-awareness as they routinely engage in the exact same behavior, locked in some sort of imaginary war.
If someone were a Brian Wilson or Beach Boys fan I sure as hell wouldn't tell them to come here for anything useful..at least not anymore.

Thank you! Thank you for really telling it like it is in here.

[bgas]

The point of this message board, as I understand it, is to discuss the music. 

That was my impression too.

Nah, that's only one part; the point is to talk about whatever happens to be presented on the board. Sometomes it's the BBs music, sometimes other stuff.
If you want to discuss JUST the music, I suggest you work to begin a tightly moderated board run by ESQ, where no-one says anything unless DB OKs it...

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

The turn in this thread is only natural since there has been an overall negativity aimed at anything related to Brian since the summertime. It seems to be an agenda when on one thread alone there are 40 some odd pages of posts badmouthing BW in a variety of ways. Let me break them down:

1. The Love and Mercy movie- This project has been trashed from the get go for a variety of reasons, from it being a "BW vanity project" that trashes the other BB’s, to the woodie in a 10 second clip not being accurate enough, to calling the actors in it "has beens" and so on, when in fact this movie opened at the Toronto Film Festival to rave reviews.

2. Brian is controlled by his wife/Joe Thomas- This theme has been repeated ad nauseum by some posters, I would say increasingly since the summertime. Implying BW doesn’t make his own musical decisions is almost a sick fantasy , as some posters want a BW/ML -BB's album more than anything. BW was more than willing to record another BB's album until Mike ended the C50; to say that BW is not in charge of his creative and personal life is irresponsible at best.

3. The Autobio/Jason Fine- The premise by some that this book will be another hack job like the last one, written by Todd Gold without any input by Brian, is like wishful thinking. Jason Fine is probably hard at work with a cooperative Brian, in order to get a good summary of Brian's life. This is important, as the last book was such a Landy fiasco which had very little to do with reality.

4. The various attempts by some posters to rewrite history ; from the end of C50 , to the Wally Heider episode; it appears to be an agenda to change the history from where blame shifts from Mike to Brian on these events in Beach Boys history.

5. The Smiley Smile message board- This place seems to have an odd anti-BW outlook in some circles. This vocal minority was finally pushed back yesterday by annoyed BW fans who had enough. The response was to clog the board with more anti-BW stuff that was not related to the topic at hand. This mucking up of the board was to hide the fact that Mike Love had said some really negative stuff in the Tanglewood interview. His sentiments were oddly the same as the small vocal group that derailed the board yesterday....

Brian Wilson receives nothing but praise.... To discuss his life and history in frank terms can hardly ever be pretty, and that is not our fault.... The only time things might seem "anti Brian Wilson" is when people's restraint in accusing Mike of every little thing lapses into basically just trashing the guy and making mean spirited fun of every thing about him.... When this happens, fans of Mike (yes, they actually exist) sometimes can't help but knee jerk a bit and turn things around onto Brian in a silly tit for tat... Immature, but it is what it is

Brian Wilson is not a pretty picture when looked into and discussed (nor are The Beach Boys) .... If this is an unacceptable reality, maybe try another idol?