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What I Find So Perplexing About the "SMiLE' Saga......
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Topic: What I Find So Perplexing About the "SMiLE' Saga...... (Read 7623 times)
originals
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What I Find So Perplexing About the "SMiLE' Saga......
«
on:
September 09, 2011, 01:04:53 PM »
Okay - if the scenario played out like this, it would be more understandable....but still annoying: 'The Beach Boys return from England, hate what Brian has come up with for the SMiLE record....and persuade him to junk it and write a bunch of 'Surfin' USA' and "I Get Around' tunes'.
But what happened is - 'The Beach Boys returned from England, thought what Brian had come up with for the SMiLE record was too weird; so what happens? Brian junks the SMiLE album and they release an even WEIRDER album!! HUH???
And why butcher the brilliant 'In The Cantina' version of H&V in favor of the terrible, disjointed, and mutilated released single version? Hell, the Beatles were releasing long songs like 'Strawberry Fields', 'Within You Without You' and 'A Day in the Life'. I don't think the world would have ended if The Beach Boys released the longer, more complete version of 'H&V'.
It's just so frustrating knowing that Surf's Up, Bicycle Rider, In The Cantina, Roll Plymouth Rock, and Child is Father of the Man were shelved while the bizarre 'She's Goin' Bald' with the sped up vocals and the vastly inferior re-working of Wind Chimes came out instead.
SMiLE was 'weird beautiful'; 'Smiley Smile' was just weird and unrewarding.......especially after all the press hype.
It's so sad to realize while reading Domenic Priore's 'Look Listen Vibrate Smile' that after "SMiLE' failed to appear - that the Beach Boys were no longer considered in the same breath as the Beatles or Dylan. They blew it. Their moment passed. Oh, what could have been!
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37!ws
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All baggudo at my man
Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the
«
Reply #1 on:
September 09, 2011, 01:23:18 PM »
I think the "Produced by The Beach Boys" credit on
Smiley Smile
speaks volumes...
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thevigilanteoflove
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #2 on:
September 09, 2011, 01:27:42 PM »
Same story that's been told tons of times, and same questions that we've been asking for years. Why oh why? Sure, the release of a completed SMiLE with full support and vocals of the boys and Van Dyke could have done wonders for The Beach Boys critically and perhaps commercially. The public may have viewed The Beach Boys much differently, obviously subsequent albums would have been much different and probably would have been completely different albums if Brian Wilson was more involved. Sure, I wish SMiLE was completed and released in '67, but I guess we'll never know how the group would have fared if that did happen. All we have now is the music that was finished, and we must appreciate it for how awesome it is and how crazy it makes me people like us who visit this board. God, I love The Beach Boys.
«
Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 01:28:39 PM by thevigilanteoflove
»
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OneEar/OneEye
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #3 on:
September 09, 2011, 01:33:44 PM »
I agree it was a bizarre change of heart to shelve the "crazy, weird Smile" and release the the even more befuddling Smiley. However, I find Smiley to be very rewarding in its own way, and the version of Wind Chimes on Smiley is (IMO)
the
version. It kicks the Smile versions butt all over the playground. It's a great album in its own right. Incredibly inventive, humorous, and yes, very strange - way stranger than I think Smile would have seemed.
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phirnis
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #4 on:
September 09, 2011, 01:42:44 PM »
Personally I hope that Smiley Smile's status is going to grow now that the original Smile sessions are finally being released. Smiley Smile deserves to be appreciated as a great experimental pop record in itself and for me it's an integral and legitimate part of the whole fascinating Smile saga. I love the group's lo-fi approach to psychedelic pop and I'm a huge fan of "Fall Breaks", "Wind Chimes", and even "Wonderful". All great stuff! "Little Pad" is just gorgeous, one of the group's best ever as far as I'm concerned.
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Runaways
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #5 on:
September 09, 2011, 01:48:11 PM »
little pad and she's going bald are great. i think you can chalk up smiley smile to brian being burnt out on the big productions before his big production came out.
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bossaroo
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...let's be friends...
Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #6 on:
September 09, 2011, 01:57:57 PM »
the only part of Smiley's 'Wind Chimes' that kicks butt is the "whispering winds" section and the little descending a capella part that precedes it. so glad "whispering winds" was included on BWPS. You just can't beat the mellow vibes and overall grooviness of SMiLE's "Wind Chimes"
"Little Pad" is my favorite part of Smiley. One of the best pieces in the entire Beach Boys catalog, all of music, and life in general.
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Roger Ryan
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #7 on:
September 09, 2011, 02:02:04 PM »
I believe the completion and release of SMILEY SMILE supports the notion that Brian was still in charge and considered the leader by the other Beach Boys. Whatever reservations the other band members had, they followed Brian's lead. I suspect they all thought that SMiLE was going to be completed and released until Brian said no. They may have recognized that SMILEY SMILE was a quickie that wasn't nearly as good as what they had been doing, but it's what Brian was asking them to do.
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originals
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #8 on:
September 09, 2011, 02:40:11 PM »
Great replies, everyone. Thanks!
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willy
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #9 on:
September 09, 2011, 03:03:34 PM »
I hated
Smiley Smile
at first.
Couldn't live without it now.
It took years but I'm SO pleased it happened.
The
SMiLE
songs that trickled through were and are amazing. The b**ts are allegedly amazing
Very soon we'll have The Bigger Picture
Isn't it great to have
Smiley Smile
also? Different direction but loads MORE incredible music which no other band on the planet could have ever done. Don't care any more about what happened or
could
have happened way back then......
SMiLE
could have been rushed out at the time and maybe would have had little of its deserved impact at the time, and certainly compared with that which we are about to experience!!! It is
On Its Way!
We are all very lucky in all respects! Now please next let us have
Smiley Smile
and
Wild Honey
in stereo.
Hell, the God Lindsey Buckingham has just released a new album and I couldn't care less!
I want that SMiLE box!!!
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oldsurferdude
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #10 on:
September 09, 2011, 05:18:44 PM »
Quote from: phirnis on September 09, 2011, 01:42:44 PM
Personally I hope that Smiley Smile's status is going to grow now that the original Smile sessions are finally being released. Smiley Smile deserves to be appreciated as a great experimental pop record in itself and for me it's an integral and legitimate part of the whole fascinating Smile saga. I love the group's lo-fi approach to psychedelic pop and I'm a huge fan of "Fall Breaks", "Wind Chimes", and even "Wonderful". All great stuff! "Little Pad" is just gorgeous, one of the group's best ever as far as I'm concerned.
Sometimes a bunt will produce home runs-The box set could well enhance SS's stock .
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OneEar/OneEye
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #11 on:
September 09, 2011, 05:50:55 PM »
Would there be enough material for a Smiley box? Not that they'd do one, but i
f
they did?
I like the Smile Wind Chimes too, but the Smiley version is my favorite, maybe cos that's the one I heard first. It's spooky and beautiful. I prefer the Smiley Vegetables as well.
It took time to grow on me though, because I too, when i first heard it was like"What the hell?" And yet there was something about it that made me continue to listen to it, and I really grew to love it. I consider it one their all time best actually and one of the most unique albums released by anyone ever anywhere.
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PS
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the
«
Reply #12 on:
September 09, 2011, 06:39:07 PM »
Quote from: Paul on September 09, 2011, 01:33:44 PM
I agree it was a bizarre change of heart to shelve the "crazy, weird Smile" and release the the even more befuddling Smiley. However, I find Smiley to be very rewarding in its own way, and the version of Wind Chimes on Smiley is (IMO)
the
version. It kicks the Smile versions butt all over the playground. It's a great album in its own right. Incredibly inventive, humorous, and yes, very strange - way stranger than I think Smile would have seemed.
Agree entirely, Paul, particularly with your assessment of the sublime Smiley Wind Chimes. The intimacy, delicacy and proximity of the vocals, the gorgeous backing track and the loose, relaxed, gently falling background vox, and the sublime, deep in the well chorale - a gem. SMiLE version has always felt fanciful and lightweight in comparison, not lonely, forlorn, spooked, stoned, frightened, and holy like the Smiley track. I love the exchange of timbres in the round of lead vocals - like we are laying on the floor in the dark with them, passing around that hash pipe...
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Jim V.
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #13 on:
September 09, 2011, 06:59:55 PM »
I honestly think the one thing that keeps
Smiley Smile
from being a stone cold classic to everyone is one thing: the fact that it is missing the important classic payoff song, ala "A Day in the Life".
And we know what song that is.....
"SURF'S UP"
It seemed like quite a few of the reviews at the time of the review mention the lack of this song. And I honestly, I think
Smiley Smile
almost works as an album. With "Surf's Up", it would have had its third cornerstone (the others being "Heroes and Villains and "Good Vibrations"), and its emotional masterpiece. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, it seems it was not considered for release. I think the rest of the material on the album is top class, but I just think there's no payoff, and that's why album seems like it's missing something.
Pet Sounds
had its payoff in songs like "God Only Knows" and "Caroline No", and
Smiley Smile
didn't.
I think the appearance of "Heroes" and "Surf's Up" at the same time, on the same album, would have had a major effect for the boys, and may have changed things. I just gotta wonder why it wasn't considered for the album, because it seems most of the
SMiLE
biggies were. And of course, after the
Smiley
sessions, Brian returned to it, possibly either for
Wild Honey
or possibly the 10-track
SMiLE
, or maybe neither.
But yeah thats where I stand.
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runnersdialzero
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #14 on:
September 09, 2011, 07:05:26 PM »
Quote from: sweetdudejim on September 09, 2011, 06:59:55 PM
I honestly think the one thing that keeps
Smiley Smile
from being a stone cold classic to everyone is one thing: the fact that it is missing the important classic payoff song, ala "A Day in the Life".
And we know what song that is.....
"SURF'S UP"
And yet, I still enjoy Smiley Smile more than Sgt.Peppers. Go figure. imo.
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People make mistakes.
Alex
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #15 on:
September 09, 2011, 07:06:49 PM »
Smiley Smile is SMiLE!
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theCOD
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #16 on:
September 09, 2011, 07:14:52 PM »
I don't think I'd trade Smiley for a completed SMiLE.
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JohnMill
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #17 on:
September 09, 2011, 07:26:25 PM »
Quote from: originals on September 09, 2011, 01:04:53 PM
Okay - if the scenario played out like this, it would be more understandable....but still annoying: 'The Beach Boys return from England, hate what Brian has come up with for the SMiLE record....and persuade him to junk it and write a bunch of 'Surfin' USA' and "I Get Around' tunes'.
But what happened is - 'The Beach Boys returned from England, thought what Brian had come up with for the SMiLE record was too weird; so what happens? Brian junks the SMiLE album and they release an even WEIRDER album!! HUH???
And why butcher the brilliant 'In The Cantina' version of H&V in favor of the terrible, disjointed, and mutilated released single version? Hell, the Beatles were releasing long songs like 'Strawberry Fields', 'Within You Without You' and 'A Day in the Life'. I don't think the world would have ended if The Beach Boys released the longer, more complete version of 'H&V'.
It's just so frustrating knowing that Surf's Up, Bicycle Rider, In The Cantina, Roll Plymouth Rock, and Child is Father of the Man were shelved while the bizarre 'She's Goin' Bald' with the sped up vocals and the vastly inferior re-working of Wind Chimes came out instead.
SMiLE was 'weird beautiful'; 'Smiley Smile' was just weird and unrewarding.......especially after all the press hype.
It's so sad to realize while reading Domenic Priore's 'Look Listen Vibrate Smile' that after "SMiLE' failed to appear - that the Beach Boys were no longer considered in the same breath as the Beatles or Dylan. They blew it. Their moment passed. Oh, what could have been!
The bottom line is The Beach Boys just didn't support Brian's "SMiLE" vision period. The album was also overdue by several months and there was demand for new product. This was 1967 where bands were still expected to release product at a breakneck pace. So The Beach Boys got together and recorded a hastily made LP that some fans love and others hate and put it out there. The fact that it was weird or weirder than SMiLE in my opinion has no bearing, they needed to release product and this was product period.
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Been Too Long
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #18 on:
September 09, 2011, 08:03:22 PM »
Quote from: originals on September 09, 2011, 01:04:53 PM
But what happened is - 'The Beach Boys returned from England, thought what Brian had come up with for the SMiLE record was too weird; so what happens? Brian junks the SMiLE album and they release an even WEIRDER album!! HUH???
Ok, this statement, I've never understood this. Check this out from Andrew's site.
From the timeline: "May (1967) publicist Derek Taylor announces the abandonment of Smile in the rock press, the first mention being on the 2nd ."
But from the Shows & sessions you'll notice that the Beach Boys played their first show on the 1967 European Tour on May 2nd 1967 and had been playing an East Coast (US) Tour for the two weeks before they left for Europe.
So instead of the Boys coming back and saying we don't like this get rid of it, it looks more like Brian actually waited until they left the country to cancel it and the band couldn't do anything about it for two weeks, until they got back after their last show on the 19th.
I also remember reading that Derek Taylor had made an announcement after "Inside Pop" aired, April 26th, that the album was done and would soon be released, something like "all 12 track are complete" but I'll have to look that one up.
Weird timing when you look at the tour schedule.
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guitarfool2002
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #19 on:
September 09, 2011, 09:29:08 PM »
The biggest three that suffered most transitioning from Smile to Smiley Smile, in my opinion, and they've already been mentioned by others:
A. Wind Chimes. Besides the multiple piano overdubs at the end, a section which Michael Vosse remembers they used to beg Brian to play the dub for them because it was so good, there is a stunner of a split second on the track. Use the box set from '93 as the sample until the new one is out. Just as the quiet section has built up to the point of bursting, and it's still relatively quiet, there is a beautiful, perfect split second of pure silence that creates nothing but anticipation...then a fully-orchestrated section with blasting vocals, heavy reverbed drums, and the whole band in the studio explodes musically. Just a pure blast of sound and sonics, which carries on for a bit, then lapses back into a gentle piano, which also builds.
Groundbreaking, influential arranging and production. Taking the "Surprise Symphony" concept and executing it electronically on a pop record - about as perfect a bit of silence as possible. Whether the pace and timing of that edit was from Brian, Chuck Britz, or Mark Linett, I don't care - it's amazing.
B. Wonderful. That '93 box set version is what took the music of Smile to a whole new level for me, just a beautiful piece of music and an arrangement which perfectly compliments the melody and chords. A perfect recording in almost every sense, terrific backing vocals and counterpoints...about the only thing missing seemed to be a way to end the song, because musically it could go on forever, verse after verse, and not feel like it needed to end. The subsequent versions, for whatever reason, Brian added parts and changed things that removed most of the neo-classical brilliance of that piano version on the box set. For me at least.
C. Heroes & Villains. The "In The Cantina" section itself is about a good and moving a section of music as Brian ever wrote, in my opinion again. Those piano chords and the feel he played them with...perfect. Apart from that, the Cantina mix hums with a low-frequency energy similar to the chorus of Good Vibrations...and add the tape explosion, various vocals that were cut out or changed...it's just a damn good record. And in comparison, that "x factor" of energy in that mix seems to have left by the time the Smiley Smile version was mixed down.
Just my 2 cents.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
Chris Brown
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #20 on:
September 09, 2011, 10:09:31 PM »
Very well said guitarfool, especially with respect to "Heroes." That one is almost more of a tragedy than the other two, because at least they were re-arranged to the point of being unrecognizable, making them so different that you really can't compare them to the Smile versions.
"Heroes" was the worst victim of Brian's tinkering. He had it perfect in February (and potentially at other points too), but the single version has always been such a let-down for me. All the excitement is gone, and it was no longer the "3 minute musical comedy" that Brian had originally envisioned.
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puni puni
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #21 on:
September 09, 2011, 10:11:15 PM »
alternte heores wa sso much better thna the released verison i cannot stand the chorus its terrible i still cnaot hreoes and villains just see what youve done the alternae is much better than the releaed really.
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Ron
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #22 on:
September 09, 2011, 10:22:08 PM »
Quote from: originals on September 09, 2011, 01:04:53 PM
Okay - if the scenario played out like this, it would be more understandable....but still annoying: 'The Beach Boys return from England, hate what Brian has come up with for the SMiLE record....and persuade him to junk it and write a bunch of 'Surfin' USA' and "I Get Around' tunes'.
But what happened is - 'The Beach Boys returned from England, thought what Brian had come up with for the SMiLE record was too weird; so what happens? Brian junks the SMiLE album and they release an even WEIRDER album!! HUH???
I was making that point in the Mike Love is a jerk thread. The beach boys and their opinion of the album had nothing to do with Brian scrapping the album. Brian's insecurity/depression/mental issues scrapped that album. The Beach Boys released whatever the hell Brian wanted them to release, he had them in his back pocket.....
.
.
.
and STILL! Has them in his back pocket. Brian Wilson could snap his fingers and Mike & Al would come running to record whatever the hell he wanted them to. Tommorow. they're BEGGING him to work with them. This is how it's always been. Dennis and Carl of course loved Brian to death too and always recorded whatever he wanted them to.
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Iron Horse-Apples
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #23 on:
September 10, 2011, 01:11:41 AM »
Quote from: originals on September 09, 2011, 01:04:53 PM
And why butcher the brilliant 'In The Cantina' version of H&V in favor of the terrible, disjointed, and mutilated released single version? Hell, the Beatles were releasing long songs like 'Strawberry Fields', 'Within You Without You' and 'A Day in the Life'. I don't think the world would have ended if The Beach Boys released the longer, more complete version of 'H&V'.
It's just so frustrating knowing that Surf's Up, Bicycle Rider, In The Cantina, Roll Plymouth Rock, and Child is Father of the Man were shelved while the bizarre 'She's Goin' Bald' with the sped up vocals and the vastly inferior re-working of Wind Chimes came out instead.
All you needed to add was IMO and I'd have been fine with this post. Not everyone agrees you know
I personally think the Smiley Smile Wind Chimes is the greatest thing they ever recorded, but then I hear beyond the surface to the structure within. You obviously only hear things on a very simple level, i.e, just the production.
Smiley Smile contains as many brilliant musical moments as SMiLE, it's just the bare bones.
As for Hereos and Villains, the Smiley Smile version flows much better than the Cantina version. All about structure and balance again.
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smokeythebear
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Re: What I Find So Perplexing About the \
«
Reply #24 on:
September 10, 2011, 04:53:47 AM »
Answer is pretty simple he ran out of energy and inspiration, why? Drugs, pressure, band members being resistant, bad relationship. So what do you release when you promised an album and are all out of energy?
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