The Smiley Smile Message Board

The history of Al Jardine's membership in the Beach Boys has really come a long way over the years.  The old narrative involving a sort of mutually exclusive presences of he and David within the band has given way to the more accurate picture, that Al never really was far outside the Beach Boys ambit, and appeared on stage and in studio when Dave was still around.  But when Dave was in the band, Al tended to play bass on stage.  This fact is also part of the more nuanced picture we have now of Brian's ab initio dislike of the stage--Al played bass with them in 63 when Brian wasn't up to it.

But of course, there was a major sea change when Dave quit.  It forced Brian back into the live show on bass.  That meant Al would now have to move to guitar.  But here's the thing -- Al might not have owned an electric guitar October 1963.  I'm not sure if we have ever detailed the behind-the-scenes machinations within the band as they prepared for Dave's departure between his notice-giving on August 29th, and his final show on October 5th.

In any case, at some point they decided Al would move over to guitar for their next show, the Y-Day concert at the Hollywood Bowl, October 19th '63.

But did Al own an electric guitar?  He had been borrowing the group's Fender bass for the latest tour.  And personally he was into tenor acoustics and being folky.  Did he arrive at the Hollywood Bowl that day with a plan in place?

Those of you who are into Beach Boys guitars may recall that the photos from that day show Al playing a Gibson SG Custom.  It's a wonderful guitar, but not the Strat that Al made his workhorse stage guitar for 64-66.  For a long time, I wondered what the deal was with that guitar.  But recently, as I was researching another Beach Boys guitar question, I discovered this thread at a surf guitar forum:

https://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/18849/?page=1 (https://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/18849/?page=1)


It has the photo of Al and the boys:

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/sg101.forum.photos/4tQ9deoxQ2KPJR67MIgUOw.jpg)

But then, revealingly, it has these photo with some accompanying text:

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/sg101.forum.photos/6F3m2WkJTw2kVgVCwmWGFQ.jpg)

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/sg101.forum.photos/gH3NrPQpRwm4WmZnDYc5hw.jpg)

This is Brett Brady of the Showmen, and it's his SG.  The accompanying text says this:  

"Brett Brady had no idea that Al Jardine borrowed his guitar that day until recently. I always thought it was so cool that the two bands shared gear, but Brett didn't remember that Al borrowed it, or loaning it out. maybe Al Jardine just grabbed it without asking?"

So I thought that was the case -- that Al just borrowed the SG for the one set.  But then, I discovered a photo on beachboysgigs.com from October 31st -- almost two weeks later -- playing the SG at Loyola.

Click for the pic (https://www.beachboysgigs.com/1963-2/#iLightbox[e42460e541e86c7a155)


So --did Al arrange to borrow this guitar more long-term from Brett Brady?  Did he steal it?  Did it appear any more that fall?

Has this question come up before?

Very interesting story

Note in the last pic, Carl in the backing with a cigarette  ::)

I'm sorry that I can't add any significant info, but I just had to post this:


(http://images.gibson.com/Lifestyle/English/aaFeaturesImages2009/selvin88.jpg)

Source: https://www.gibson.com/



I can't really make too much sense of it. Al surely wasn't there coincidentally with the Boys. Why would he not have a guitar of his own for the show/get one from Carl/lend one before the appearance? It seems strange to show up for an appearance and then not have enough instruments for the band.
Also the recording of the show has the announcer introducing only the Wilsons and Mike. So, was Al not an official member by this point?

BTW great topic and info regarding the ownership of the SG. Thanks for sharing!

By the way Carl was always careful about his onstage image but there a lot of photos of him smoking backstage-as you can see he started young-he was still 16 when they played that gig

I hate to possibly derail what was such a good thread with a possibly stupid question, JH, but I’m curious.

I don’t have Becoming The Beach Boys yet and so this might be answered there, but I remember reading here on the board that Brian switched to bass on December 29th or 30th of 1961. That would leave Al without an instrument, unless the band used a dual-bass system like in Nashville or in Brian’s later productions or Al played rhythm guitar. Could he have played acoustic or would he have used an electric from late December 1961 until February 1962?

Found this picture where you can see the SG a little bit (just a little bit) better:


(https://64.media.tumblr.com/05233bbb475faaa3b72ff4eb7b073320/tumblr_olc53hNTXC1v473m9o1_1280.jpg)

They appear to have only two amps- the smaller one looks like a Bassman for Brian, and the larger one a Showman, presumably shared by Carl & Al. Notable that I’m not seeing a reverb tank (could be behind the amp).

Most likely scenarios here IMO:

1. Al just shows up, assuming the group brought David’s gear- everyone realizes they didn’t plan this very well, and Al borrow’s the other fellow’s guitar. He asks to borrow it for another later gig too (fellow of course doesn’t remember this stuff).

2. The groups arrange between one another or management to borrow the guitar for some upcoming gigs. But- how did they rehearse? Al playing along on an acoustic?

3. Al does have an electric guitar and brings it but- it’s a crappy one and he plays with another guitar whenever there is a better one available.

Reminds me of Davy Jones. There are many candid and off-set photos showing him to have been a heavy smoker at his young age too, but his public image and any controlled photos never revealed it.

Yeah, the two amp thing is a good call -- certainly Dave and Carl had their own amps before Dave left.  63 and early 64 are a real wasteland as far as on-stage photos go, but by the time the "Lost Concert" comes along, they have their own amps; Carl the Showman, Bri the Bassman, and Al seems to have an Ampeg??  That being said, that Ampeg may have been owned by the venue for the Lost concert, because they seem to go back to sharing the Showman for a while.

A few quick items first:

Watch "The Lost Concert" footage at the beginning, when they walk on stage Al switches on the standby switch on the Fender Bassman head, and Brian goes over to the Ampeg to make some adjustments. Brian's bass was going through the Ampeg B-15 "Portaflex" bass head, Al was playing through through the Fender Bassman head and one of the two Fender reverb tanks on stage, Carl through the other reverb tank and the Showman. The Ampeg B-15 was, I believe, Brian's road bass amp, and you can see it in those "rehearsal" photos as well.

What I don't understand, or can't comprehend, is that SG. That particular model SG, white with gold hardware and custom 3-pickup design, was like the Cadillac of Gibson solidbody guitars at that time. They cost what a lot of people made in salary for a month, and I can't understand how one would be loaned out that way *unless* the same bands were playing the same bills. Was that the case with Eddie and The Showmen and The Beach Boys where photos were taken beyond the Bowl gig? You wouldn't let such a guitar be loaned out or borrowed without guarantees or money, you wouldn't spend time restringing it before a gig only to let such an instrument go on its way afterward, and I'd think someone who owned it would remember loaning it out! Again, a younger guy could buy a decent used car for the cost of that particular Gibson SG at that time.

And what's also odd is The Showmen favored Fenders most often, as did many surf bands from California in 1963, and also The Beach Boys by that time could have easily bought Al a Fender from any shop like Wallich's if needed, or could have made a trip to the factory (note Carl's Jaguar) to get something as they would soon have matching white Fenders on stage anyway.

Too many questions lol

Perhaps the answer to "why" is this:  Dave has said that he announced his intention to leave sometime before he actually did, but the other guys didn't believe him (possibly Murray, neither). So maybe Al showed up, expecting to play bass like he usually did. Meanwhile, the Wilson clan realized Dave wasn't bluffing, forcing Brian to go to the gig and play bass at the last minute. Either that or, since it was a local gig, Brian planned to play it all along, and maybe Al showed up just to hang, and they all expected Dave to show. Either way, Al had to borrow someone else's guitar and plug into Carl's amp at the last minute.

So cool that we have documentation (photos AND an audio recording) of the first appearance of this new/old lineup...

Two points on that, Al is wearing the same matching stage clothes as the other guys, so that kind of rules out Al showing up just to hang unless they all wore the same clothes off-stage lol.

And the question for me that's bothersome (mostly for reasons of the value of that SG in 1963) is the later photos showing Al playing that guitar October 31 at Loyola - Were Eddie And The Showmen sharing the bill at that gig too? And by then, wouldn't Al have gotten a guitar of his own as I mentioned above?

And the "owner" of the SG is shown stringing it while sitting in a Fender guitar case, not a Gibson case.

Craig (C.) - you say you have seen that Ampeg elsewhere?  I couldn't find another shot of it on the Gigs site, but I may have missed something.  Late 62 has all of them playing Fender piggybacks, and then lost concert era is pretty slim pickin's photo-wise, and by 64 they're already starting to move on, Amp wise, to the blackface Fenders...

Craig (S.)'s point was that Al might have already been there for his normal-at-the-time rôle of stage bassist.  So he would've been prepared to play--Bass, not guitar.

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rock-and-roll-band-the-beach-boys-rehearse-at-home-in-1964-in-los-picture-id74252745?s=2048x2048)

That's from Getty, and there are others. Same amp lineup as "Lost Concert"

My reply was to Al showing up just to hang - Not unless he always wore the BB's stage clothes!  ;D

Interesting...  It must have been in use for a very short time.  This photo is supposedly from "Summer 1964" and here they're on 3 Fender piggybacks.  Note that Al is playing Carl's Jag, which is interesting because it seems like there were a couple gigs where Al's strat was out of commission between Oct 19th-Nov 25th -- Al's on the Jaguar during that stretch.  If Brian used that Ampeg starting sometime after Y-day in Oct 63 but had abandoned it by circa Oct 64, that's not a long time of service!

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rock-and-roll-band-the-beach-boys-perform-onstage-in-the-summer-of-picture-id73987503?s=2048x2048)

Quite a big gap between photos where Al's playing the SG and Brian the Sunburst Fender Bass and when they both have their Olympic White Fender instruments.  Wonder if that's more pinpointable when they got those exactly...

So here's another question that I've been trying to get an more exact answer to:

When was Carl's jaguar stolen?  His first Rickenbacker was stolen around Dec 27th, 1964, which likely had some part to play in the appearance of the prototype Fender XII, which he has by December 30.  We can't tell exactly when he gets his new Rick (or at least, brings it out on the road) but it happened sometime before April 12th 1965.  During that time, he wasn't really ever Playing 6 string on stage, so the Jag would've been in the background anyway.  But the last photo I can find of the Jaguar is around the end of 64, around TAMI show time.

The next time I can find a photo of Carl playing a 6-string guitar on stage is the Guild Starfire VI that would be his primary 6-string stage guitar through 65 and into 66.

I just saw the following comment from Steve Hoffman on facebook, when he posted the '63 picture of the Boys at the Bowl in 2012:


The Beach Boys closing the show at Hollywood Bowl, October, 1963. On the same concert for the YMCA were Jan & Dean, legendary surf band The Challengers, Eddie & the Showmen, etc. This was the Beach Boys first show after the departure of guitarist David Marks (14 days earlier), so it was Al's first appearance as a guitarist, rather than as a bassist (you can see him looking at Carl's hands to see what chord he's playing). 49 years later, June 2nd, 2012, the Beach Boys played a sold out Hollywood Bowl show on their milestone 50th Anniversary tour. Of course, David Marks was back in the group!

It looks like Al Jardine may be playing Brett Brady's Gibson SG guitar. Randy Nauert would know for sure..



But Brett is on Facebook as well and answered:

Yes that's my old 'fretless wonder'.. Al needed something and as i recall really liked this SG and so we were scheduled to play first i said sure... i remember he broke a string thus the picture of me backstage re-stringing the "b" .or "e" .. -





It seems like Randy Nauert died about a year ago.


https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=337915956289267&set=a.105811056166426

The SG is fretless??

That seems...very unlikely.

Also this still doesn't explain why Al still has the guitar a couple weeks later at Loyola.

'fretless wonder'

Note the single quotation marks. Possibly this was a nickname or something similar that we just don't understand. Clearly it is not fretless and I'm sure Brady is well aware of this  ;D

Regarding "fretless wonder", I'm sure this was a nickname that either has lost its context to us, or might just refer to worn frets that needed replacement (though this guitar would have been pretty darn new back in late '63).

The following pics probably don't help much, but two of the few gigs where pics have surfaced that took place in between that Hollywood Bowl show and the "Lost Concert" in March '64 would be the two gigs from February 28, 1964 in the California Bay Area just a week or so before "The Lost Concert."

They played Cupertino High School in the morning/afternoon, and it's actually one of the few post-Dave shows that photos exist for where it's a Brian-less show, where they just did the gig as a four-piece. Here, Al is playing Brian's white Fender bass (note the March 20 notation on the yearbook page is incorrect):

(https://www.beachboysgigs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/64-228-Beach-Boys-Cupertino-64-yearbook.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-InT05mJYAlY/VpMD4ZJkY7I/AAAAAAAAFxE/oOUm5P6HpxI/s1600/jhjkh.jpg)

I've found two photos of the evening show at the Santa Clara County Fairgrounds in San Jose, CA, which offer a look at the amps to compare to the "Lost Concert" the following week:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66344967_1561276340676274_2667210201605603328_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=q7inrxpqyHQAX8t5Zxx&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=a4e19efaed9a50134ec5a7353bb39609&oe=6035BD3D)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl4_KvxWQAAT0jz?format=jpg&name=small)

I think the Cupertino show is the first photographic evidence of the new White Fender Bass...

It's not a fretless guitar - Not knowing this man or that specific guitar personally, I do know that I've heard other players use that term to describe the playability of a guitar and its neck especially one with a "fast" neck, low action, and a certain fret height or setup. For the players who use a light touch and prefer very low action, you barely have to touch the strings and it plays, and add the slim "fast" neck from this year SG, combined with the fret height and style, and you have that description of a guitar neck feeling like it's fretless. Another term is that the guitar "plays itself" for the same reasons.

Unfortunately the SG from those years looked terrific, but that vibrato tailpiece was sh*t, the construction of the neck joints and the headstock design caused notes to sag/drop when you played AND it caused the headstocks to break often at or around the neck and need repair, and the awesome looking gold plating on the pickups had a bad tendency to wear off way too soon considering the price.

Anyway...they looked cool and sounded great when they were in peak playing condition.  ;D


And YES times a thousand...it still doesn't answer the question about that guitar showing up weeks later played by Al at a BB's gig.

Question which is perhaps relevant:

When did the Beach Boys (and Carl specifically) get their endorsement from Fender and when did they start appearing in ads for Fender gear? I do know that Carl has been cited as one of the first prominent players to endorse the Jaguar, but can't think of when that first happened or if it was more of Carl being seen playing a Jaguar on stage than him actually showing up in ads for the guitar.

This is SUCH a cool thread.

Side questions - did the band lug their gear at all during this time period? Or did they by this point have roadies who took care of all that?

And was the reverb tank the only effects unit the band used at the time? Would be interesting to know all the various guitar effects the band used during live shows throughout the years, especially the 60s.

The earliest ad I can think of is this one, funnily enough from well after Carl had stopped playing the Jaguar, and well before he picked up his late 60s Tele...

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/91/b0/e5/91b0e59af4cc1ec330f7978f486fe546.jpg)

At some point, which is another great question as to exactly when, they recruited their friend Ron Swallow to be a roadie (and erstwhile studio tambourinist).

Mike looks a bit sad, wondering when there's gonna be a tambourine ad which he can be at the forefront of  :lol

Were Brian/Al/Carl ever using picks onstage at this point (and what brand)? Or just finger picking/strumming?

It sure would be fascinating to get a full-on detailed rundown of what things would have been like on the day of a show for these guys back then. No cell phones, no group text reminders, just hoping that everyone would show up on time, maybe they all met up at someone's house (Brian's?) and carpooled to shows? Or maybe for a local Hollywood Bowl show, they'd each go in their own cars. Every morsel of info regarding what this must've been like back then fascinates me to no end.

(https://i.imgur.com/w0gk99s.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/yFDR9ic.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/F8qHDaq.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Rr2zXq6.jpg)


Those are some of the photos exhibited at the Fender museum, showing Carl touring the Fender factory...some say 1964, some say 1965. Anyway, I'm sure there is more info on this visit, but it would make sense that a series of photos would be taken if Carl were going to be a Fender endorsed artist in an ad campaign and other marketing. I don't know if these photos help pin down when that happened, exactly, but it shows the relationship and also worth noting the Boys got a Fender endorsement and visited the factory again several years later during the Blondie/Ricky years, and those photos appeared in Guitar Player magazine.

And yes, Carl was one of the first prominent players to be seen using the Jaguar early in its history, sharing it with Al on stage. And album covers like "Beach Boys Concert" were some of the better advertising shots Fender could have asked for, I'm curious if at that time the band had an endorsement which would explain such photos prominently displaying Fender gear OR if the endorsement came as a result of such photos.

Brian used his thumb on the bass, Carl and Al used picks. You couldn't play surf guitar from this era without a pick!  :)  (tremolo picking a la Dick Dale, and the muted picked sound was what made the characteristic pings and boings pop out even more through the Fender reverb tank).

For those with a Fender reverb tank or a simulation/copy...dial in "666" for the tone. Not my favorite but apparently the 666 was the go-to setting for the surf sound in some circles.

It would be pretty funny if a band appearing on stage like this didn't have at least an endorsement deal (e.g. free instruments in exchange for playing them) with Fender, considering nearly all the instruments and backline gear is prominently Fender:

(https://cdn1.theinertia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Beach-Boys-1.jpg)

It may have only been later that they were paid to actually appear in print advertisements, I dunno.

Here's a bit of a 1981 interview Carl did with Billy Hinsche which discussed his early era guitars (take with a grain of salt; I doubt Carl remembered or cared about precise dates). The full interview can be seen here: http://www.billyhinsche.com/story4.html

Billy Hinsche: When did you first become interested in learning how to play guitar?

Carl Wilson: I remember growing up always loving the guitar. I used to love to watch the people play on the Country Western shows on TV. My folks told me that when I was just a toddler, I used to pretend I was playing a guitar on a toothpick. A family friend came over when I was about twelve years old and left his guitar for me to play. I got really interested in it and learned how to play a few chords. My folks got me a single cutaway Kay. It was acoustic but it also had a pickup. That's the guitar I learned to play on.

BH: Were you self-taught?

CW: I took guitar lessons at a guy's accordion studio. There was a guitar teacher there and I took lessons from him for a couple of months, but it was too boring 'cause I was just reading notes. Stuff like “Yankee Doodle Dandy.” I took lessons from John Maus too. He was one of the Walker Brothers [“The Sun 'Aint Gonna' Shine Anymore”]. The funny thing was that his house was almost directly across the street from the accordion studio. It was just a real casual thing. He had a [Fender] Stratocaster that I thought was really fantastic and we used to sit in his room and jam. He would show me how to play certain things. It was sort of by example. I had been playing for about a year and a half when the Beach Boys formed. When our folks went to Mexico on business, we would take the food money they had left us and we would rent instruments from Hogan's Music Store on Hawthorne Boulevard. I was playing a 6-string Rickenbacker for a few weeks. When the group really got going we bought a Fender Stratocaster, a Precision Bass, some drums, and some other guitars. I played a Stratocaster for a couple of years.

BH: Did Fender eventually endorse you?

CW: Yes. After the group got real popular, Fender asked us to endorse their instruments. I think the deal was they'd give them to you then you'd let them print ads and stuff like that. This was around 1962.

BH: Have you endorsed any other make of guitar?

CW: I don't think so.

BH: Who influenced your early style?

CW: Chuck Berry. John Maus too, because I was most directly involved with him as far as playing.

BH: What combination of guitar and amp did you use in the early to mid-'60s?

CW: It was a Stratocaster and a [Fender] Dual Showman.

BH: At that time in the '60s, what guitar players did you admire?

CW: In the early part of the '60s I was influenced by the Ventures. We [Beach Boys] learned how to play all of their songs just by listening to the records. So we learned how to do it by ear.

BH: What other guitars did you own at that time?

CW: I had a Fender Jaguar for a while.

BH: What kind of strings were you using?

CW: Heavy. I think they were Fender. Then I switched to Ernie Ball medium gauge in the mid '60s. As the years have gone on, I started to play regular Slinkys. That's what I use now, but I'd like to switch to a lighter string for more flexibility and ease in playing.

It is a glorious expression of Fenderness, isn't it?  If I were Fender, I'd lean way into that legacy.  There'd be a full-on Beach Boys line of Fender equipment.

Sure, the "Lost Concert" closed-circuit performance was a great Fender ad, but how about when the #1 album in the country, Beach Boys Concert, features not just a Fender-heavy cover photo in color but also multiple color photos of the band playing their Fender gear, including two flagship models (Strat and P-bass) along with the new entry in the Fender line (Jaguar), and that great backline of brown tweed piggyback Fender amps:

(https://img.discogs.com/le_AH-_GWBsULH6v1DUspv3qsOo=/fit-in/600x606/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8230541-1457571869-8862.jpeg.jpg)

That's incredible advertising for an instrument brand, especially when all the instruments are in a matching color, on an album that was #1 for, like, a month. What a great look for a stage band, and I've read other players from back in the day say that covers like that were what made them want Fender gear when they "made it" or could afford it. It just looked cool! Same with the early Ventures covers before they switched to Mosrite.

And...is that Brett's SG that Al has on the cover of BB CONCERT?

I think he created a diversion, hopped a bus...and absconded with that guitar!!  :police:

That's Al's Fender Strat on Concert.

Believe it or not -- last week I LITERALLY asked Al about the Hollywood Bowl SG.
He had no recollection of it, nor of EVER playing a Gibson SG.

Show him the photos!

I had the opportunity to indirectly pose a lot of gear questions to Al about 20 years ago (I was too stunned at actually being in his presence to ask him stuff when I was in his presence) -- he didn't remember anything I wanted to know.  I really wish that some of this information could be recorded for posterity.

Yeah Al didn’t have much memory of touring with David marks either -even though we now know they played a lot of shows together in 1963

I think not remembering what kind of guitar you played on a certain date, after touring for 60 years and playing in front of millions of people, can be excused.  :-D These people just live their lifes, it is us who analyze it.
That said, did anybody try to contact Brett on Facebook and ask about the later gig?

Well, I didn't ask him about that kind of thing -- I asked him general questions about how they recorded, which, of course, Al did hundreds if not thousands of times.  I think it comes down to the fact that he's just not that interested in that side of things.  Of course, Brian was interested in that but doesn't remember anything, either.

There are certain things Al has an interest in and an interest in remembering, and others that he obviously doesn't.

When I met him before a little private gig in 2005, I mentioned an equally obscure show I had seen of his in 2000 (one of the late era "Family & Friends" shows), and he remembered the venue before I even mentioned it. Obviously, it was only five years previously, but normally even with a reduced touring schedule I wouldn't have expected him to remember or care.

When it comes to guitars, I think Al has always viewed them as a tool. Look at his tour riders from back in the 2000s (outside of touring with Brian); he usually doesn't even bring his own guitar and all he asks for is an American standard Strat.

That's not to say he has no interest in guitars. He let Fender take his old white Strat (even though it apparently isn't *the* old white Strat, but rather his later red Strat repainted) and replicate it in the early 2000s. He obviously had enough fondness for his old 50s "Black Beauty" Les Paul that he put feelers out however many years ago when it was apparently sort of stolen (does anybody know if he ever got it back?).

I find it interesting and fascinating that weird pics of the BBs with weird guitars *do* stick out so much, because they usually went long stretches playing the same guitar.

So when a pic of Al in 1963 with an SG surfaces, it does look weird. Or Carl pics like these:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-beach-boys-performing-at-wembley-arena-london-1980-picture-id75612982?k=6&m=75612982&s=612x612&w=0&h=1_k8ZtOrvHriiNbOvbG7Rcd8yRyPrJjNxGSKmReZHVQ=)

(https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--QYcPav8s--/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_620,q_90,w_620/v1450206169/yr7t405gpafioekciqeg.jpg)

That's great.  Someone should photoshop the classic lineup playing Ibanez 8-strings.  That would be truly jarring.

I just had another look at the picture from the later gig with Al holding the SG.


(https://www.beachboysgigs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/63-10-31.jpeg)


For the Hollywood Bowl gig we wondered if Al maybe showed up unexpected and therefore had to borrow a guitar. That didn't really make sense because he wore the same outfit as the rest of the Boys. But in this case it sure looks like he wore a different outfit. Look at the pants. So would the scenario of him not having planned to be there (or being called just shortly before the gig) make sense? Or did he really didn't own an electric guitar and for whatever reason couldn't lend one from Carl (who at this point owned more than one)?











EDIT:

On a totally different topic, I found this online discussion about Carl's guitars:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/carl-wilsons-early-fender-years-jag-jazz.566054/


I thought maybe one of you guys would wanna help. Especially on some of the obvious misconceptions regarding the Boys' playing on their own records.

I could envision a number of reasons Al didn't have his own guitar. Remember, even in 1963, the Beach Boys were *the Beach Boys*, they were weird from the get-go and could from time to time not have their s**t together.

I could picture Al assuming a guitar would be ready for him, and the rest of the band assuming Al would have a guitar.

Or maybe they all knew he didn't have a guitar ready, and felt they didn't need to buy or rent one immediately and that they could easily borrow a guitar from one of the other acts.

Is it possible they *did* rent some really crappy guitar for Al, and he preferred to borrow the nice, deluxe SG?

As I recall, this Hollywood Bowl gig was a *very short* show, even shorter than the usual short shows they did back then. Wasn't it like a five-song set or something? Considering the short show, and the scant few shows booked around this time, maybe a guitar didn't strike them as a high priority?

Did Al own an electric guitar during the pre-Dave era? When he was sitting in on BB sessions in '63 playing bass while Dave was still in the band, I would assume he just played Brian's bass or whatever bass was around in the studio.

It's not too crazy to imagine Al didn't own an electric guitar upon rejoining. What seems laughable is that nobody thought about supplying the rhythm guitarist re-joining a big, hit band with an actual instrument.

Here's an undated photo from Getty (purports to be circa 1963) which seems to be likely later '63 or early '64.

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rock-and-roll-band-the-beach-boys-perform-onstage-in-circa-1963-brian-picture-id74253653?s=2048x2048)

I don't see the Ampeg cabinet in that photo, unless you're thinking it's what the Bassman head is sitting on? If so, the Ampeg head and cabinet were pretty much kept together, I never saw players run a Fender head of that era through an Ampeg cabinet. I think that may be a Fender cab in the photo. Or I'm just not seeing the Ampeg cab.

Yep, I can only tell that it's a mis-matched (color-wise) speaker bottom, which could still be a Fender bottom (though the size seems off from the typical Fender bottom being used around that time). It just appears Brian had a matching speaker bottom at some point by 1964, so who knows when this is or what sort of anomaly it may be. A lot of these early era shows had a lot of gear from a lot of bands on stage, and I'm sure sometimes multiple bands used the same gear from time to time.  

Here's another undated "Circa 1964" Getty photo that seems to be from the same show, and while one clear Bassman with Fender speaker bottom can be seen, it's difficult to tell if that black speaker bottom is further in the background or not:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rock-and-roll-band-the-beach-boys-perform-onstage-in-front-of-of-in-picture-id74253432?s=2048x2048)

Same gig, other side of the stage:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rock-and-roll-band-the-beach-boys-perform-onstage-in-front-of-of-in-picture-id74253434?s=2048x2048)

EDIT: Oh sh*t, I think I see it now, I think...masked behind the Getty watermark, behind Al and next to the PA speaker? If so disregard the above. I never was able to see those hidden pictures where you have to blur your focus to see them, my bad.  ;D

I know that's a Fender cabinet because you can see the holes on the side where they removed the leg/stand device, and my own cab from that era looks the same way.

Even more curious, I also just noticed that the Bassman head on top of that cab is not plugged into that cab...weird. They don't seem to be using it. There's no 1/4" speaker cable connected to the back of that head running to the cab.

Another "Circa '64" closeup of the back of one of the Bassman amps with dark speaker bottom:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/dennis-wilson-of-the-rock-and-roll-group-the-beach-boys-performs-for-picture-id74253658?s=2048x2048)

One has to wonder if some sort of deal was on paper with Fender to show their gear.

Here's a late '64 TV show where a bunch of un-mic'ed Fender speaker bottoms are prominently displayed on stage with no visible heads:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/aired-12181964-pictured-the-beach-boys-al-jardine-carl-wilson-brian-picture-id138424235?s=2048x2048)

It was common practice for TV shows of the era, even when bands played truly live, to keep amps/speakers off-stage. This is a weird case where they may have been doing that, but then also had prop Fender cabinets for the TV show?

Yes, THAT Bassman head on the other photo is connected to the cabinet! lol


And the photo from the other side of the stage shows that it's a Fender cabinet behind Al with the footswitch on top, I don't see the Ampeg unless it's tucked between and not visible.

The heads could be behind the cabinets - for whatever reason - so you couldn't see the leads. Or they could be for show too, a lot of stage setup back then was as random as the stages and venues where these bands played. And they're using RCA 77 ribbon mics for vocals, which I guess would make sense if this was a TV appearance and that was still a go-to broadcast mic, but it's odd seeing those 77's with a rock band.

It took me some time to figure out that all these scattered photos (minus the TV show and the live show with Dennis singing) from Getty are from the exact same gig. Here's a nice shot of the back of the gear from the same show:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rock-and-roll-band-the-beach-boys-perform-onstage-in-front-of-of-in-picture-id74253654?s=2048x2048)

And THAT one shows the Bassman head behind Brian is in fact unplugged from the power line entirely...the plug is laying behind it. What a crazy setup!

Maybe this m. o. explains why Carl's guitar is almost inaudible on some of the live recordings/footage.

BTW if you want to listen to the show on Y-Day, here's the full radio broadcast from that day:


https://pastdaily.com/2012/07/07/y-day-at-the-bowl-1963-the-beach-boys-surfaris-the-routers-the-challengers-past-daily-pop-chronicles/


Thanks to the owner of that website. Here's the order of the appearances:


Part 1: The Routers
Mike Clifford
The Cornells
Paul Petersen
Soupy Sales
The Mixtures
Keith Colley
Eddie & The Showmen
Dodie Stevens
The Fleetwoods
Vic Dana
Duane Eddy
The Honeys

Part 2: The Challengers
Jan & Dean
The Surfaris
Bobby Rydell
The Beach Boys

Well, assuming that it's the Beach Boys' Bassman...the close proximity to Dennis implies that it is, but there's the Hammond organ to our left of the amp, which obviously is still onstage from being used by a different act on that bill. Its it possible that this Fender amp similarly belongs to another act, left onstage during the Beach Boys' set, and that Carl's and Al's amps are out of frame, to our right of Dennis?

I think Brian and one of the guitars are plugged in to the amp directly to Dennis's right, and then another guitar is plugged in to the amp that's waaaay over to Dennis's left, past the organ.  You have to go to big zoomed out photo to see it over there.  Or maybe Brian's cord just loops back behind him to it.

I'm assuming it's the BB's Bassman head and cab because it's the same model Bassman head seen on stage with them during this time, in shows like the "Lost Concert" with only a different Fender cabinet underneath. The cabinets were pretty much interchangeable unless you wanted to attach the head to the cabinet and use those side legs to tilt the amp back, then you'd have to attach the head to the cab with the right size screws to fit. I also don't think the other opening acts would have their gear left on stage like that, it would usually be moved back like you can see in one of the photos a full grand piano, a drum kit, and other assorted gear pushed behind the BB's. 


More interesting is something to look for in the far right on one of those photos. So in another you can see Brian's cord going from his bass toward where Carl and Al were standing. So that assumes his amp was on that side too.

Now - Look close behind the Fender cabinet (black) with no head. There is a cardboard box with 1/4" cords running in and out of it. A cord also seems to be going into the speaker input of that Fender cab from that box. It looks like something is in that box which *could* be acting as an amplifier. It could be a reverb tank, but it doesn't look that way...

So what if they made an ad hoc amp or had a different amp for Brian to run his bass through that was being fed into that cabinet with no head behind Carl and Al?

What if the Bassman head blew a fuse or crapped out in some other way and they had to rig up something else for Brian's bass? That would make sense and explain why that Bassman is sitting there unplugged and unused, perhaps it malfunctioned and they had to rig up a replacement. And whatever is in that cardboard box is not only plugged in, but it seems to be connected to that stray Fender cab. The other two guitar amps are on Brian's left next to that Hammond, and directly behind Carl and Al on stage. You wouldn't run a reverb tank directly into a speaker like that...it's like a guitar pedal today, inserted between the guitar and the amp. And experiences tell me too that a Fender guitar head, even if it's a higher-wattage Showman, would most likely blow out if you ran both a guitar AND a bass through it at the kind of volume they'd have on a stage of that size. So maybe Brian and Al or Carl are running through the same head, but I doubt that setup would last long because of the amp blowing out or worse due to the overload.

They're just scenarios of course, but check out that cardboard box and I think whatever is in there is the amp Brian's bass (connected to that stray cab behind Carl) was running through for whatever reasons that night.

Yeah all those are definitely 1964-probably the summer safari tour-my guess would be one of the big California shows. When I did my book I decided I only wanted photos that I could precisely date and it was a disappointment when I emailed with the photo archivist at Getty about the details and he said that they just had lots of undated photos (including Earl Leafs entire collection). I’ve told this before but he wrote to me and said he’d appreciate it if I dated the photos for them! I actually started to do it and they added my updates to like 250 photos but than I got busy with other things. Anyways the site is a lot better than it was as a result. I recall that they had 1980 photos listed as 1964 and 1966 photos listed as 1962, etc. it would be cool to precisely date those 1964 photos but the trouble is that it is so hard to find old photos of all the old venues that they played to compare them to.

Any guesses on that cardboard box? I'm looking at it close, and I'm guessing it could be one of those old, standard tube PA heads or amps that any venue would have being used as a bass amp due to the size. Or it could be an actual bass head, but the size looks off. However there is no doubt that is an amp to my eyes, it's plugged into the power lead around the back, there is a 1/4" cable going toward the front of the stage, and another 1/4" cable connects it to that Fender cabinet. That's all it can be in my opinion, the question is how did that come about (and was the Bassman out of commission that night).

And just a point on Ian's photo dates, it's easy to forget just how *primitive* and relatively new the skill of running live sound for a rock band really was in 1964. Just look at the setup in those '64 outdoor photos, and look at the size of the venue and the crowd. Two big ol' VOA PA speakers with top horns for vocal mics, a backline of Fender (and other) amps not mic'ed up relying solely on the volume of those amps, and no mics on the drums. Most likely a 4-channel PA mixer and whatever amp was available to drive the PA. No compensation for reflections or delays hitting the back of the venue, or the way the sound carried and bounced around.

No on-stage monitors for the band!

So it's amazing they could even hear themselves play while spread out like that, especially for Brian if he's on the opposite side of the stage from his bass amp, and no sound coming back toward the singers for them to adjust pitch...yet they're still doing 4-part harmony while playing.

Major props to the band and all the other bands who managed to stage musically solid shows while running through primitive and woefully underpowered sound equipment being run by people at the venues who had no experience doing sound like that for these new band combos playing rock music. If a bluegrass band showed up, you'd put one or two mics through the same PA speakers, same with other genres. But the new music and new bands required new techniques and they just were not there in 1964.

I remember reading in the case of The Beatles that Neil Aspinall actually had to either run or oversee the house sound and light systems at some venues in the US because the people the venues had would be clueless as to running sound for a rock show. It didn't become a thing to travel with a dedicated sound engineer until a few years later when the artists and audiences demanded better sound at these concerts, not the same PA setup they'd use for a baseball game or hog-calling contest at the state fairgrounds.

So I often wonder just how the Beach Boys sounded to those people sitting in the audience in those photos, especially those sitting in the back rows. I'm thinking all you'd hear would be vocals and maybe some lead guitar if loud enough, but drums would get washed out and echoed to where it would maybe be a snare you'd hear, and the rest would be hit or miss. You don't get a sense of how these shows really sounded from the available recordings or TV appearances because those were more controlled and mixed.

So again, I wonder how it sounded to those people sitting on the lawn in the back rows.

Yeah if you read Peter guralnick’s definitive two volume Elvis biography you might recall that he discusses that when Elvis played in Houston in early 1970 he was baffled when he came to rehearsal and saw monitors onstage. The young promoters were astounded that he had never used them-meaning these 1970 shows were apparently the first time Elvis and his band could ever hear themselves onstage while they were playing. Elvis was quite excited that day by this.

Also I’d add that I’ve seen many comments from musicians that make it clear why so many 1960s concert albums had to be doctored in the studio.  For example, in my book on The Rolling Stones in concert-I quoted bill wyman about the 1966 Got Live If You Want It album and he noted that when they took the live tapes back to the studio they’d often listen and suddenly micks vocal would stop for part of a song (because a fan tackled him and he dropped the mic) or Brian Jones guitar became inaudible because two girls attacked him and pulled the guitar cord from the amp. Or one of the mics was defective and you couldn’t hear the bass. And because the artists couldn’t hear themselves their instruments might be out of tune for a whole show.

Therefore I imagine that the BBs sounded much better in the late 60s and early 70s at those big shows than they would have on 1964 but of course the early band probably had a youthful energy that can never really be recaptured.  I mean with the Stones-clearly later concert Lps are far superior to the 66 partially doctored lp but if you listen to “I’m Alright” or “Get off of my cloud “ on that 1966 lp it is unbelievable!! The Stones play with an insane speed driven energy that they’ve never recaptured. It’s punk rock before there was punk rock

As an aside, I'll mention that our own Steve Desper had a hand in the development of a truly modern live sound reinforcement system for a rock band, and as such, the Beach Boys live sound around the turn of the decade from 60s to 70s must have been very very good.

Also I think those late 1950s and early 60s concerts were like “events “ more than “concerts “ . Fans went to see Elvis in 1957 or the Beatles, STones, BBs in 1964 and 1965 to get an autograph and grab a lock of hair and not really to sit in a seat and intently listen to the artists. The Beatles have all testified that the screaming covered up for their sins-because by 1966 they were not even rehearsing much for the gigs.

Which leads to Scotty Moore's famous line, that they where the only band that was literally directed by an ass  ;D

Regarding the Beach Boys' early live recordings, I'm a big fan of those. The Brian-years are rocking and quite impressive if you listen to the Sacramento and Chicago recordings and imo those could've been released without a lot of after work. 

Yet, having heard quite a lot if not all of the available live recordings by The Beatles, I have not heard a concert where they sound like anything but a tight live band. And that to me is amazing, not just because of how lax they became to live performances, but also because they couldn't hear themselves unless it was a tightly-controlled TV appearance or something they rehearsed for knowing it would be filmed. Even the shows with all the screaming, audience recordings and whatnot, you can hear a pretty tight performance coming through even if they said they didn't care and couldn't hear each other.

At some point after hearing more and more live recordings of them from 64-66 than had been available decades ago, I used that example to show that underneath all of the fame and legend at heart they were a great f**king rock band. And if the (sadly) few examples we have of the Beach Boys playing live in their original lineup are any indication, so were they.

I don't know how these bands did it without being able to hear themselves or each other, I really don't. And I'm sure there are many shows that were never recorded where the quality of the performance was sub-par, but the ones we do have show a pretty fierce rock band (Beatles and Beach Boys) doing their thing and delivering energetic rock and roll that was miraculously in tune for the most part.

Yes! Thank you! I've said this from time to time, the Boys with Brian were great as a live group (judging from the know performances). After Brian left, it seems, they sounded very shaky on the older stuff ("I get around" is terrible), but good on the newer stuff from "Pet Sounds" and "Good Vibrations". Possibly Bruce had not yet adjusted to Rock'n'Roll bass, I don't know. But the striped shirt years with Brian are still very enjoyable.
The live band during the 60s is a fascinating topic anyway.

As a massive fan of both Elvis Presley (love that quote from Scotty) and The Beach Boys, it makes me wonder when The Beach Boys first had monitors? Or if guitarfool and Ian know when monitors became common, to judge how strong the young promoters’ reaction to Elvis’ comment in Houston in 1970 was?

Not to mention their rendition of Ray Charles' "What'd I Say" from the early '64 Australian tour...man, that kicks booty!

That is a tough answer to pin down, because like a lot of technology at that time it not only developed so fast, but it also was somewhat regional. Meaning, one company or studio or venue in, say, New York may have had some of the new technology (or a home-brew version of it) while other areas did not, or chose not to use it. It's like multitrack recording - While the Beach Boys were recording to 3-track machines, then 4-track, there was already an 8-track machine at Atlantic in New York which had been running for 5+years, and when engineers were trying to figure out how Motown was getting that sound, by 1964 or so they also had set up an 8-track system. Meanwhile The Beatles were stuck on 4-track recording at Abbey Road up until 1968, and at that time engineers in the states were already trying to get 16-track setups developed.

Apply that same development timeline to stage monitors and that's why it's so tough to pin down.

Specific to Elvis, if you see photos of his '69 live shows in Vegas, I do not see any on-stage monitors. If someone does, please chime in! So not only was Elvis out of the touring game more or less since he joined the Army, over a decade ago, but also by being out of the game he would not have seen the developments like stage monitoring because he wasn't seeing these different venues. He played Vegas in '69 who didn't have monitors, then goes to a venue in  Texas a year later who did have them...Yes, that's totally plausible that these were the first ones Elvis had used, and he would be that surprised and happy to see them. It plays in with the whole regional topic too, where a venue in Texas had in '70 what a casino theater in '69 did not.

I also don't think it was standard across the industry how engineers and venues rigged up monitors. Most acts were not traveling with a sound reinforcement crew and mixing team like they soon would do. It relied on each venue, for the most part, how the band would run through a PA in-house. It was surprising to read that The Beatles on at least one tour stop in '66, their final tour, actually had stage monitors...but that seemed to be only for one venue. That solved the problem of them not being able to hear each other. But they quit touring so it didn't carry forward into their live touring afterward because by then they were done with the road after that tour and focused on the studio.

Regarding The Beach Boys - The person to ask is Stephen Desper who set up their own PA/live sound rig. He would know when the band started using on-stage monitors.

I've heard others say the first they recall seeing something in regular use on a live stage/tour involved Neil Young in the late 60's, but I haven't seen other details to back that up beyond saying Neil's live shows had a floor wedge monitor setup early in the game. But it wasn't until the 70's when the industry as a whole seemed to get on board with standard setups for on-stage monitoring and mixing a separate mix for the band due to advances in the technology and adaptation of those things through companies who were dedicated to serving the live touring industry and providing road setups, like Clair Bros. Then of course there was Bear Owsley and that behemoth system he designed for The Dead around '74, which was short-lived but almost ridiculous in scope along the lines of Howard Hughes and the Spruce Goose...yet those who heard it and used it say it was magnificent in terms of the quality of sound for the audience and band members despite all the obvious issues of such a massive setup. 

I hope that answers the questions somewhat, or leads to more answers. Here's an article which sheds a little more light on the topic, but does get a few of the dates wrong unfortunately: https://www.prosoundweb.com/hear-at-last-a-history-of-stage-monitoring/ (https://www.prosoundweb.com/hear-at-last-a-history-of-stage-monitoring/)

And I'm sure Stephen could provide more info specific to the Beach Boys.

I can't add a lot, but you can find some info about Elvis' stage setup on wiki's site dedicated to Presley's engineer Bruce Jackson:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Jackson_%28audio_engineer%29#Elvis_Presley


His brother Gary wrote a book about Bruce's years with Elvis on the road. It's available on Follow That Dream. Possibly there's more information about those technical things.

Man I love this thread. Thank you all for the attention to details, the searching of photos, and the sharing with the rest of us!

This is the fun stuff, I agree. And it's cool because the information being dug up and offered is *new*, and not just a rehash of discussions we had here years ago. There was also a cool one a few years back about Al playing an unusual Gibson guitar on stage in the 60's, and in researching it and asking around about that guitar I was able to learn a lot that I never knew before in the process. Always fun and worth it.