The Smiley Smile Message Board

I'm relatively new around here...so I don't know if this has been discussed before.  I've been a BB fanatic for about 20 of my 35 years...and I know quite a bit...but one of the main reasons I joined this forum was because there are plenty of you who have forgotten more about the BB than I'll ever know...and I love learning new bits and pieces.

Anyway, I've often read that Dennis was given an ultimatum in the late-70's (around the time of POB) to either quit the group and head off as a solo performer or put the solo aspirations aside and simply remain the drummer.  I'm pretty certain this actually happened...I'd just like to know a little more of the "dirt" behind it.  Where did this ulitmatium come from and who issued it?  I have my suspects...but I'll keep my yap shut until I hear something concrete.

Also, I've often read about there being interband jealousy regarding Denny's growing stature as a songwriter and performer.  Where did this come from and who were the main culprits?

He's always been (in my opinion) the second best songwriter in the band.

After POB was released, Dennis flirted with the idea of a limited solo tour, going as far as booking a few dates and recording the rehearsals with a live band that included many members of the Beach Boys' backing band, including Carli Munoz and Ed Carter. POB allegedly did not sit too well with Brian Wilson, Michael Love, and Al Jardine. The matter did come up for debate in late 1977. Dennis was given an ultimatum to either go solo and leave the band, or make the band number one. I think it's safe to say that all four members besides Dennis bullied him into it. Ironic that Carl was allowed his own solo tour with nary a whisper from the group.

Nor Mike when he did his Celebration side gig and his Looking Back With Love album. Actually, Brian and Carl performed with Celebration. And, Brian was able to do his solo thing and be a Beach Boy in the mid/late 1980's.

Wasn't the big airport fight in '77 as well? Did the Dennis thing figure into that at all?

I know the Dennis love is astronomically high on this board and its blasphemy to say negative things about him, but I think that he was a much bigger pain in the ass than any of us give credit to.

The Beach Boys needed Carl Wilson and couldn't exactly give ultimatums in the rare chance he told the rest of the group to eff off. The boys had already been using other drummers live for years at that point and could afford to go on tour without the problems surrounding Dennis, and therefore could get away with the chance he might tell them to eff off and go solo for good.

I'm sure they also noticed their own creative limitations, plus Brian's problems at that point and wanted either all or none of Dennis' material.

Carl's live contributions/leadership was more important than his songwriting, whereas the opposite was true of Dennis. What's the point of having Dennis in the band if you're absorbing all of his problems, but not getting positive contributions?

This is a very fair take on the situation I think. I never really thought of it like that, but they're all very good points.

I think that the guys were jealous. Mike wanted his own solo deal with Jimmy G. and Caribou. He didn't get it. And remember this. While the BB were slaving away with and without Brian trying to deliver LA to CBS, Mike was up at his home studio recording 2 solo LPs and couldn't be bothered to come to LA to put his vocals on the new LP. Bruce would have to cart the tapes up to Mike's to get his vocals.

Dennis had a big heart. And he was a REALLY talented. He was also an ass when he was loaded. Throwing my LP of PS across the lobby of the Hyatt just to prove who he was pissed me off. But having numerous friends who knew Dennis, I just walked over, picked it up, and asked him to sign it. After I said are you thru f***ing around now? I think the group really just wanted him straight. Let's face it. Art that good comes from alot of despair and pain. Brian , Dennis and Carl certainly had their share.

Of course they were jealous!  With the exception of Brian, none of the others could write an album like that!  They were pissed!

September 3, 1977 on that airport tarmac was the turning point I think.  Loves/Jardine vs. Wilsons.  It was the beginning of Dennis' downward spiral with the Beach Boys and on a personal level.

Does anybody know how that argument started?

Some guy from Rolling Stone witnessed it and documented it. I have the article clipping somewhere. It's also been written about in a couple of books. Maybe Stebbins, White, Gaines, Carlin, or Badman's book.

Brian might actually be the album's biggest fan, he loved it more than Dennis probably did.

... no offense to the other guys, but I'm sure they all realized that Dennis and Brian were the only two members who had a serious shot at a solo career ... they probably didn't want DW to steal the group's thunder. He really could have been a major late '70s star (if things had gone differently) in my opinion. He was more 'relevant' than the band in some ways at the time. Certainly hipper.

Dennis was a legitimate solo 'artist', whereas Carl's later move was really more like 'I just need to get some rock n roll out and the band is getting boring' kind of thing. I don't really know what Mike was thinking with his solo deals. Seems like maybe he was just grabbing some extra projects that came up at the time.

(PS - I don't know if this ultimatum thing is actually verifiable in any case !)

Considering Brian has said he's never heard it at certain times, I'd hardly say he's the album's biggest fan.

Well, Carl quit the group for his solo albums/tour, didn't he?

In a perfect world Dennis should have left the band after POB. He no longer fit in the band on either a personal or creative level. Focusing on building a solo career may have been the incentive he needed to stop abusing the drink and drugs.

According to the Gaines book, things were generally tense (Carl & Denny vs Mike & Al + Stan/Rocky), but the specific argument was a custody battle over Brian post a gig in Providence, Rhode Island.  Due to an aircraft related delay, Dennis and Karen Lamm decided to hang out in NYC for the night and Brian wanted to party with them; Team Al and Mike said no dice, and wouldn't let him off their plane - Dennis went and told Carl (waiting for a different plane) and then the shi* hit the tarmac.  See part 2 of Chapter 15, if you have it (page 303 of the '95 DaCapo edition).

But if Mikie can find the original clipping, it would be cool to see if the stories line up...

A Dennis solo tour would've been cool - provided he kept himself together enough to do it, and my guess is that he would've. Carl did leave the group for awhile, did a solo tour of clubs in 1981, followed by a stint opening for the Doobie Brothers that summer. He recorded Youngblood that fall, and was back in the group by spring '82. He did manage to work in a a few solo shows in the summer of '83, but he was full time with the BB's. I don't think he'd ever intended to quit the group, just got bored with the routine, saw an opening to do something on his own and he took it.

Until reading Jeff's first hand observations in thread about the Byron Preiss tapes I never fully realised the band REALLY had broken up. It wasn't until during the recording at MIU that Carl and Dennis return to BB. I wonder how long it took to reconcile.

Where and when has Brian ever said anything positive about POB? What did he specifically say (not what do we vaguely think he might have said, what did he say) I'm not disputing he's praised POB, i just can't remember ever hearing or reading him having said anything about it at all and i'd be interested to hear his thoughts....

Thanks for the WEALTH of info, guys...this is exactly what I was hoping for.  I knew the basic skeleton of the story...but I've now been able to fill a lot more in.  I've often wondered if Dennis would have been better off if he'd simply gone solo...but the demons that haunted him would have been hard to shake no matter where he was.  I've also always been under the opinion that for several LPs in the 70s...Dennis was operating as a separate unit from the rest of the band when it came to his compositions...or maybe more as a self-contained unit (does that make any sense?). 

Yeah, but even then, Dennis was pretty much MIA from MIU with exception to maybe the vocal for "My Diane". And Carl wasn't really into it. Dennis said that it was "an embarrassment to his life and should self-destruct and that karma shouldl f*ck up Mike Love’s meditation forever".  I think the Wilson brothers were still hokding on to what transpired the year before in Newark.

Iirc Dennis did not make a single new contribution to MIU. My Diane and HLT were earlier recordings.

Yeah, I think you're right. Dennis showed up briefly to MIU then went to the Bahamas or somewhere.  Don't recall seeing him in the "Our Team" video from MIU, but I have to view it again to make sure....

I think there is/was a difference between quitting the group and leaving the group. Carl left the group. He stated his reasons - the group wasn't "giving their all" and he wanted to do some solo stuff. In my opinion, I don't think there was much doubt that he would return.

And, as The Real Beach Boy stated, the group accepted it, gave his guitar parts and vocals to other band members, and waited for his return. As I recall, no recording was done while he was away.

So, what do you think is the main reason he stayed a Beach Boy and didn't go solo?

It's statements like that, and I've read that before, that make me question why they would want Dennis to remain in the band. I seriously question it.

If yopu read between the lines of the RS (the clean living faction versus the party faction) article as well as what we know now I beleive that the argument was about the impact of drugs on the band.

The Beach Boys pay better.

Because (and Ed Roach or others that actually knew these guys please chime in), I think at the heart of all of this, they REALLY did love each other. And they were family. Alan Jardine is an extended Wilson. He and Carl got to be like brothers. Alan said in later years that Dennis was so talented. It was the other s**t that made it hard to live with the talent. Think of it this way (and I am purposely being simplistic). You have a friend with alot of talent. And he displays that talent to you and everyone around. And you are in awe of him. At the same time, he is the guy that steals your girlfriend, wrecks your car and generally pisses all over you just for the fun of it (and I have had friends who did that). After awhile, the talent and heart they have kind of gets to be not worth suffering through the other.

Makes sense.  You don't display that much emotion...be it good or bad...unless there is some genuine love involved. 

I think vocals on My Diane were recorded in late 1977...while the band was on tour.  At least that's what I go from AGD's site.  Either way...his contribution was minimal...and I don't think he was at the Iowa sessions at all.  He was also knee deep in the Bamboo sessions while the band was trying to cobble MIU together.  Remember that his original material on the L.A. album were songs he gave to the band from Bamboo.  It would just seem that his heart was no longer in the band...and probably had not been since late 1976.  He didn't contribute much (if anything) to KTSA, either.

I believe his heart was in the band until the very end.

Dennis loved the Beach Boys, what they represented as a band, and as his family. And he was proud beyond words to be a part of it. The Beach Boys' career and discography is a family history with all the inevitable ups and downs, but at the end of the day Dennis (maybe more than any of the other BBs) was aware of what his family had made possible for him.
And let's not forget: Dennis was always about expression, be it artistic or of another nature, and he loved being a part of representing a way of life and music which he had originated in the 1st place (or helped to originate).
While he was in very bad place in the last years of his life I believe his heart never left the BBs - in spite of Mike Love, M.I.U. or whatever (family) business.

Was there a sense of sadness that something he'd loved so much and given so much for had fallen to the level it had fallen to?  We all know the famous quote about MIU.

Sure. More than sadness. Frustration and disillusionment.

Even when he was at his lowest Dennis still delivered quality music (see Bambu) - unlike the others, his songwriting talent never deserted him, even while every single other aspect of his life fell apart. MIU may have its admirers on here, but Dennis was basically right about it - compared to what went before it was an artistic disaster. (And still no quotes re Brian on POB i see...)

I don't understand what was so awful about not doing drugs and drinking, like some of the fans seem to think.  I just read a long profile in The New Yorker about Bruce Springsteen in which Miami Steve says Bruce is the only person he ever knew who never did drugs of any kind.  Yet he managed to have a long and successful and highly creative career. Springsteen wrote a lot of classic songs stone cold sober, without pot or LSD to give him creativity.  Who woulda thunk it?  The Wilson brothers were all really messed up at a certain time period.  You really think Carl was better on junk and alcohol, singing like he did on those tapes from Australia?  I'm pretty sure Carl eventually came around to the Love/Jardine way of thinking.  It's one thing to do drugs and drink recreationally, another to do it so much that you do 5 grams of cocaine a day like Brian or drink and drug yourself to the extent of Dennis.

MIU isn't that bad.  It has quite a bit of Brian on it.  I'm also not convinced that Dennis was the second coming of Brian, sorry.  POB is nice, but it's not quite my own personal cup of tea.  I bought the reissue a few years ago and played it through maybe once or twice.  If some people love it, great, but to me, Dennis wrote some nice songs here and there, but no, he was not anywhere close to his brother Brian in terms of talent.

Of course he wasn't. Who would claim that?
Dennis was a great musician and songwriter in his own right, though - and Pacific Ocean Blue continues to amaze me every time I listen to it. So raw and beautiful, and yearning. To me it will continue to be the single best BBs solo LP (and I love That Lucky Old Sun to death!).

(http://buzzardbook.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/098b.jpg?w=450)

Correct me if i'm wrong but no-one on here has so far said that drugs and alcohol were in any way a good thing in the lives of any of the Wilson brothers, so what's made you say the above is beyond me?
My personal objection to Mike and Al post-'75 isn't that they were anti-drink and drugs but that they were anti-forward thinking/progressive music. It was, arguably, these sort of backwards-looking attitudes within the group that contributed heavily to the group's artistic (and Dennis' personal) collapse. (No, I am not - repeat NOT - saying Mike and Al were responsible for Dennis's death, before anyone suggests i am, but I am saying that the Beach Boys fall from artistic grace really, seriously affected Dennis personally - after producing an album of the quality of POB it must've been extremely painful for him to see albums like MIU and KTSA released to the public).

Celebrate the News, Lady, Forever, Slip On Through, 4th Of July, Wouldn't It Be Nice..., Cuddle Up, Carry Me Home, Moonshine, Thoughts Of You, Baby Blue - these are songs of exceptional quality. Mona Kanu is every bit the equal of the Pet Sounds instrumentals. River Song is arguably the greatest Wilson-related song of the '70's.

So, certainly between '70-'79, Dennis was easily a rival for his brother Brian - yes, i'll confidently and happily claim that.

That's because he wasn't in the band at that time. He was fired.
He contributed percussion for "Endless harmony" though. But I don't know if the track was recorded for KTSA or earlier for So Tough

I said that because that was the gist of the "tarmac confrontation," that it was Jardine/Love versus the Wilsons and it was over the Wilsons' drug use, yet it tends to get spun that it was the uncool versus the cool.  Even though it was around the point the Wilsons were getting into heroin, which is a drug that a lot of people were scared of, even people who used other drugs.  It's physically addictive in a way that other drugs aren't and in the street form, is mixed in ways that are unpredictable.  I'm also not sure why it would be a bad thing to confront people over being unprofessional on tour.  If the guys didn't want to be there, they shouldn't have been touring, drugs or not.  Bands get in fights, they break up, they have differences.  That doesn't make either side villains.

The drugs vs sober on this board or any other DOES degrade into cool and not cool. It has even before there were boards. And I never understood it. LSD opens your horizons? Gimme a f***ing break. It natural? It a MOLD. Good MOLD - anti-biotics. Bad MOLD - poison. And that is all anyone is really feeling on any of this stuff is a poisining of their system. I may feel good or different. But its posin. I always laughed at guys that would get high, tell you how uncool you were for not doing it, and then they either pissed or s**t themselves or vomited the rest of the night. Don't get me wrong. While no pot/coke/etc every entered my system, the alcohol that passed thru my body found its way out the same as I described above. So who is the a**hole here? But I would never think that was cool. Who would?

Of course, i'm not disputing a word you say. However, in terms of musical direction, i side utterly with Carl and Dennis. It's true they didn't have to be there, but the group was their life - it was what they did and all they knew - and - as evidenced on LA (and on POB/Bambu) - the two brothers (and Dennis in particular) were still keen to move the group in a progressive direction. Mike and Al clearly weren't, and i think money played as big a part in that as any drug and alcohol issues.

Peter Carlin said it best in his book. Alan would have sided with the Wilson in '77 thru '79, EXCEPT look at their condition then. If you are that unhappy as the Wilson's were, straighten up and take the group back over. That is what always got to me. Carl finally said FU in 1981 and left for 18 months. I always loved him for that!

It would've been great had they been able too, but that is to misunderstand the nature of addiction. Dennis' mind may have been saying 'Write another great song', but his body was screaming Drugs! Alcohol! Now! Quick!!

There is a thread with reproductions of old magazine articles. The famous RS article on the tarmac episode is there. Look for it. Someone took the trouble to re-type it.

Basically, it all got down to the sh*t that goes between family members when they run a bussiness together. That sh*t is what broke them appart and that's what brought them together then and now.

Well only Dennis could really know for sure. Maybe the lure of a large regular paycheck was too much for him to resist. Maybe he had reservations that he could sustain a sucessful solo career. Or maybe leaving the thing that had been a huge part of his life since he was just a kid was too much for him to do?

How many copies did "Pacific Ocean Blue" sell?  That may have been an influence.  He also seemed like the kind of guy who got lonely and bored easily.  At least the Beach Boys was a guarantee of companionship and something to do.

This is not a terribly controversial opinion is it?  I'm not even sure it's debatable.

It sold pretty well (although I don't have any numbers), and was a hit with contemporary critics.

I think the original run sold around 200,000 -- almost half a gold album, quite good really. Charted to 100 I think. better than most late '70s BB records.

That how I always figured it. I think Al would have been thrilled with a sober Dennis and Carl leading the band, and probably would have gone along with it if they had confined their drug and alcohol use/abuse to after hours.

The famous clip of "Surfer Girl" in Melbourne (which seems of to have disappeared from YouTube, even though other clips from that show are there) shows a lot. Carl, of course, is wasted and keeps interrupting a relatively sober Dennis giving the introduction, even cursing. At the end of the clip, as they take a group bow, Carl almost falls over. If you have that clip anywhere, look at Al when that happens. He doesn't look mad, he looks sad, as if he's thinking, "How did it come to this?"

Also, at the end of "Surfer Girl" in Knebworth, it looks like Carl (mostly cleaned up by this time, of course) is mad at Mike and wants to start something. Dennis steps in and turns it into a group bow, and Al shakes Dennis hand at the bottom of the bow. I think if not love that there was definitely a strong friendship between Dennis and Al.

Hell, even on perhaps the bitterest night in Beach Boys history, Dennis remembered it was Al's birthday.

Just rewatched that particular scene and to me it looks like Carl passed by Mike and also stared beyond Mike, at somebody else. When Dennis got his arm around him, Carl was already past Mike. Doesn't look as if Carl was mad at the Lovester, but maybe tried to get a quick word in with somebody else before the next song. He kinda of was the on-stage musical leader, after all.

It isn't in my mind. Not even a question.

Don't remember the exact moment, but wouldn't surprise me that it was a you tell it. Carl was giving directions to people to the side of the stage a lot of the time, increasingly so into the 80s. And so did Al. I know they need to sometimes, but does not look nice.

Dennis as a songwriter: a handful of gems; a ton of wandering efforts.

Extremely talented, and -paradoxically- intense while unfocused.

While on the factions issue... Mike's problem, as well as Al's, were drugs and related behavior. And eventually the bitterness that naturally arouse out of the constant arguing.

Their problem was not artistic. I think Mike's only point was bringing Brian back as a creative force. Was that met without resistence from the other Wilsons? Probably.

With the exception of SIP, Mike is not a constant or principal creative force on any album.

Good stuff, guys.  I guess when I mentioned that Denny's heart wasn't in it after 1976 or so...what I meant was that he was, in a sense, heartbroken over the general lack of musical direction his band had taken.  I've never doubted Dennis' commitment to the band...but judging from some of his late-70s statements...he was unhappy with the music that was being made. 

So give us a link so I don't have to take a long time to scan mine and post it!   I told you the guy at RS was a witness!

Yeah, at least two sessions - one up in a Seattle studio where Dennis did the vocal and another one early the next year at Wally Heider's. Might have been a demo or early track in '76, but it was finished in late '77 and early '78 (but not at MIU).


Dennis supposedly did show up, but he wasn't there very long.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/Shows/George+Stroumboulopoulos+Tonight/Music/Music+Interviews/ID/1973693574/

This is only one I could find but he certainly seems fond of it, he even sings a little bit of River Song.

Was "Morning Christmas" cut back in L.A.?

He is a huge fan of it and Dennis. Have some loving and amusing quotes by him on the album for my book.

Also Dennis was at MIU and played on She's Got Rhythm. Source for this is Alan Boyd who has seen all the video.

1977 was a bad time for the group in general. I was listening to a show today from early in the year and Carl actually starts cussing out a rude spectator for throwing pennies. I understand that he was pissed, but Mike had already addressed it with humor, and was in the middle of a serious intro to Everyone's In Love With You. Carl apologises to Mike, and Love is cool about it (on stage at least), but man Carl sounded so loaded it's just sad.

Dennis was a victim in that he should have been allowed to tour by himself, but I am sure that at a more harmonious time it wouldn't have been the same type of problem. BTW for what it's worth Karen said to Steven Gaines that Dennis was afraid of herion and only tried it on new years eve 1977 after she chided him into it. Carl was on it a year or two by then whatever that means. I love the Wilson's but I feel for Mike, Al and, Bruce from 1976-1983.  When drugs and drink started to happen before the show it must have made it hard to ignore anymore. Talking to people who toured with them in the sixties, they were very professional and there wasn't a lot of hard drug use.

No need to go to that trouble, Mikey - I'd say the Gaines version is pretty much verbatim from R/S.

I just burned sometime going forwards then backwards through the (freakin' awesome!!!) magazines scan thread by the amazing Steve Mayo, with key contributions from Bgas - http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10376.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10376.0.html) - probably the best way to spend a rainy Monday evening, with a nifty Shiraz to assist. 

Couldn't find the hand typed tarmac account mentioned by Dr Lenny (I may not have been lookin' in the right spot), but Bgas references an R/S article  10/20/77  BB'S:NO MORE FUN,FUN,FUN - which is probably the item in question.

Thank you both!

It's an article worth reading but so is Gaines verson. Both have a few different details. I don't think they really got back togther as a real band at least not until now.

Finally found the fcuker - on another wholesomely bumpable thread;

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6867.msg110359.html#msg110359 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6867.msg110359.html#msg110359)

Holy crap. I have been looking for the article and I WAS THE ONE who posted it. Man getting old sucks!!!! I even emntioned there about Dennis throwing my LP. Wow, my mind must be slipping.......

Holy crap. I have been looking for the article and I WAS THE ONE who posted it. Man getting old sucks!!!! I even emntioned there about Dennis throwing my LP. Wow, my mind must be slipping.......Just kidding here folks!

Someone posted then why didnt Dennis show signs of mental illness like Brian. Um...he did. Acting out like that (and the addiction) is a sign of mental illness. And others have said (maybe Ed Roach or Jon Stebins can comment) that Dennis suffered great bouts of depression. I think Dennis was an ass. But I also think he was only 50% responsible for his actions. Murray did the rest. They say you can only go with what you know, but someone should have said "Enough of this. This style of living has got to stop! Murray may have done all this crap to me but I am not going to pass it on!"

And remember too, that Carl and Brian were going to get Dennis help through Landy. They were suppose to meet at the group's Big Bear retreat, but it would only be Carl, Brian, Landy and some really beefy assistants. Brian and Carl would leave and you can figure out the rest. That is how the story was relayed to me. I think Dennis would have been sober for the first time in 20 years. Whether he would have stayed that way is another question. But once the haze starts to clear, you can come to terms with things alot better. I always wanted to see Dennis go on to producing other people. Man, he would have been amazing at that!

Mighty interesting story, but didn't someone somewhere mention that Dennis was sober (at least most of the time) between the time of his "glass and toe" -accident and 15 Big Ones? Was there any truth in that?

Thanks, Alholio! That's the one I'm talking about!  The airport tarmac in Newark, New Joysey.  Witnessed by John Swenson of Rolling Stone. Now I gotta go find my Gaines book to see his version of the story.

P.S.  Holy Crap.

That was a great article. As I read it though I couldn't help thinking that sometimes I wish Brian had shown just a little more balls in these types of situations.

Yeah, at Brother Studio in November of '77.

One wonders what could have happened had Dennis or Carl been put in the producer's chair for "15 Big Ones" instead of the shell-shocked Brian?  With the release of POB...Dennis was seemingly at a high ebb musically.  If you look at their catalog...there is an artisitic progression from "Surfin' Safari" all the way through "Holland".  That progression might not have always gone in the right direction...but it showed a band still willing to be meaningful.  That ended with "15 Big Ones" and the LPs that followed...and in my opinion...this represented a band trading upon former glories with diminishing returns.  I'd be upset if I were Dennis, too.

If I remember correctly (and, correct me if I'm wrong), wasn't everybody - Dennis and Carl included - in AGREEMENT that Brian would produce two new albums. The first album would be an album of oldies/covers. That would be followed by an album of new material. After recording for a couple of months, Brian basically said, "That's it..." and stopped recording. Because of that, the plan was never fulfilled, and what we got was a mismash of the two ideas. So, if anybody is to "blame" (and he shouldn't have been put in the position) at what ultimately became 15 Big Ones, wouldn't it lay at the feet of Brian?

Taking it one step further, didn't Brian have artistic control over what became The Beach Boys Love You? At least it appeared that way by that cryptic statement on the inside album jacket about having the group's full support. So, again, if "direction" was a problem with Dennis, he should've been looking at his brother Brian.

1977..crawdaddy interview lp with brian by pete fornatale...
pete.."dennis has a solo lp coming out, does he not?"
brian--"yes he does. it's a good..i heard some of the cuts...down at the studio between beach boy sessions he said "hey brian come here i want you to hear this". he played it for me. i said dennis that's funky..that's FUNKYYYYY. you know i said hey that's good..i like it, it's great..it's good good work. your gonna have a hit album, i hope he has a hit album. dennis wilson's solo album is gonna be a good album."

so there's one for ya!

Brian showing more balls?  The guy was a shambles.  He still is, particularly when it comes to any type of confrontation.  All that article is is confusion.  I'm not sure what the whole thing was about from reading it.  It had something to do with the contract with CBS Records, so it could be the record company was putting pressure on the band, too.  They were given a guarantee of millions of dollars and didn't the president of the company say that famous "we've been f'd" line when presented with the first album of the contract?  The Loves didn't seem to be united because Mike no longer was being managed by Steve Love at that point, but others in the group were.  I'm not sure I"d count on Dennis as being the voice of reason, either, given his history.  Carl was a mess at the time.  Brian was a mess.  Al was probably just confused and couldn't count on anyone, since he wasn't a member of the family.  They wound up not breaking up, so whatever it was, it blew over.

Really touching, in light of the jealousies and quid pro quo demands that derailed the solo tour and possibly played a role (amongst many personal factors of course) in preventing his solo ambitions (his only remaining avenue for creative expression, given the band's complacency) from reaching full fruition. :'(

IMO his talent was of a different order, but almost equally powerful, emotionally speaking, just in a different sense. Not as prolific and more uneven (although actually until the last couple of years of his songwriting days, VERY consistent, quality-wise). POB is not everyone's cup of tea, but there is no denying it's power and brilliance, and that of almost everything he did before '77 (quite a bit of fine material after that too). His talent was a shining gem with a uniquely evocative emotional resonance, gradually diminished by his experiences with The Family, substance abuse (a by-product of that trauma, which he never fully recovered from) and internecine squabbles & contentiousness which thwarted his ambitions and gradually infused his work with an increasingly morbid and grandly fatalistic feel, especially post-POB. Ah, what could have been....

Dennis never stayed in Fairfield. After he flew in to record his parts, he flew right back out again. You do understand what the town of Fairfield is all about? Must have made Dennis very uncomfortable being there. Kinda sad in a way.

Fairfield, Iowa?  Is that near Bumfuct?

For me, the most astonishing little detail in the Rolling Stone article was Dennis stopping Audree from drinking at the concert.  There's something heartbreaking about that...

Gulp,
Jon Blum

Which show was it that Carl swore at the audience?

 I think it was Hollywood Flordia 1-6-77. What a sad new era this show kicked off.

There is a clip of Dennis in the studio recording his vocal for My Diane, but other than that I don't think you see him again in the studio. There is a clip of him singing You Are So Beautiful from a concert though. He sings they at one point for the kids. It's rather touching.  :)

http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/gigs79.html (http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/gigs79.html)

Episodes such as the one discussed here, or the Brian's childhood thread, render the current reunion all the more poignant for me.

I agree 100%!

For me, if this is it for the BB...thank goodness this is their swan song...a great tour...a great new album...good vibrations.  They deserve to go out on a high note, together...not just faded away like a cloud of dust. 

Well, the Eternal 'Cloud of Dust' Tour featuring Mike&Bruce will continue right after the last note of the last reunion concert has tailed off..  ;D

That clip and the recording of the My Diane vocals are from Seattle, not MIU. He's not in any clips from MIU in "Our Team".

Well, the Eternal 'Cloud of Dust' Tour featuring Mike&Bruce will continue right after the last note of the last reunion concert has tailed off..  ;D
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True.  That's always been something I've thought about.  I saw the Mike & Bruce Show at a county fair a year or two ago...and while they put on an enjoyable show...I was struck by the thought that this was not The Beach Boys.  This was not the same band that recorded "Surfin' Safari" or even "Summer In Paradise" for that matter.  This was Mike Love and Smilin' Bruce Johnston backed by a good band playing old hits.  In my opinion, The Beach Boys ended when Carl died and Al was dismissed.  Yes, they're back together again...but once Mike and Bruce go back on their never-ending county fair tour I just cannot consider them to be The Beach Boys.  Brian does it right.  Mike does it wrong.  I really don't mind Mike...but I think he cheapens the legacy by pretending The Beach Boys still exist when it's just he and Bruce and a revolving cast of backing musicians.

Not really a revolving cast. Bonhomme's been with the band since 96 or so, Cowsill and Totten since 2001, and Kirsch since 2004. Other than the slimming-down in 2007ish, when Farmer and Kowalski were dropped and Christian Love joined, the line-up's been remarkably stable for the best part of a decade.

Does it bother you that Brian Wilson votes FOR it to happen?

Here is the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkhqbwrYwi4






There you go. Thanks. So it was "new" stuff

I know of there abouts of fighting in the late 70s, but what happen on this occasion?

But is it The Beach Boys?

A little bit...but I'd rather Brian give his okay as long as it keeps the peace.

When Carl died and Al "left", the traveling BB's certainly lost something and even though Mike and Bruce toured with the name most people (and all the fans) knew it was a facsimile of the 5 or 6 member band. That said, if you liked the music you'd likely go see the show and have fun singing along or "seeing an old friend". But, what Mike did was keep the brand alive (and the shows got better in the mid-2000's and forward) in the many stops that they performed  and whether one called them a travelling oldies show or whatever the majority of people came away with an enjoyable experience. They were not "out of site, out of mind" to the average public and as they usually drew  about a few thousand fans per show  (often in cities that they played in within a yaer or two previous) people must have liked what they saw and heard.  So, when this reunion was announced  people who had seen the Mike & Bruce show now looked forward to Brian, Al and David being added and likely could think if what we previously saw was enjoyable, this will be even better. Brian's shows also helped keep the music and his name relevant (and certainly releases of BWPS and TSS helped keep a buzz). But, IMO Mike's touring efforts should not be underestimated or unappreciated.

Does anybody know of any place to view the "Our Team" special? I've never seen it, and I've been quite intrigued for a while, and would like to check it out.

I've only heard it and seen bits on YT. I have a copy of the audio somewhere

Is Brian, Al, Bruce, Mike, David, and 49 other guys on stage the Beach Boys?

Is Brian, Al, Bruce, Mike, David, and 49 other guys on stage the Beach Boys?
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Yeah, I'd say it is.  They've been augmented on stage for decades...but the key is that ALL of the surviving members are front and center.  Besides, you need quite a few other guys to create the sounds live that Brian crafted in the studio all those years ago.  Wouldn't it be like if Mick Jagger and Ronnie Wood hit the road as The Rolling Stones while Keith and Charlie were not involved?

We are yet to see how the future M&B tour develops.

See, I've heard for years "no Dennis, no Beach Boys". And then "no Carl, no Beach Boys". And still, here we are celebrating.

 No one's trying to fool anybody with the M&B outfit. Even ML makes it clear in current interviews how each of them toured with their own outfit, etc. Brian made money out of it and is ok, and so is Al --who also profits from it, I think.

Let us see how things develop in the following months. We still have plenty to celebrate... and to moan about (like WIBNTLA not being released because Al said so to a fan, bad edition in concert clips we're not supposed to hear, or Angel Come Home not being performed in some fan's town).

I hope this question doesn't get lost in the discussion but it seems pointless to create a new thread for what might a question with a really simple answer.

Does anyone know (and could tell me) the last studio recorded Beach Boys song that Dennis played the actual drums on?  I'm gussing it had been a while, even before KTSA but I'm really curious either way.  And again, I'm talking about the drum track, not piano, percussion or anything like that.

Thanks!

According to AGD's site, there's a version of "Johnny B. Goode" from October '79, early in the KTSA sessions, with Dennis on drums.

Before that?  Aside from the Bambu tracks, looks like nothing since POB (or the September '77 bustup)...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Wow.  Going back even further then: Does anyone know the last released track by the Beach Boys to feature Dennis on drums?

BUMP.  I would also like to know this.

The answer may lie here - http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,5272.msg84883.html#msg84883

Probably "Love Surround Me".  If he's got drum tracks on MIU, they'd have to be the leftovers from the "15 Big Ones" era -- e.g, he may have played on the original "Come Go With Me", but I don't think we know how much of that they re-recorded...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I think I mentioned this recently but he does play drums on She's Got Rhythm which Alan Boyd said can be seen in the outtake footage from the MIU special. So yes he was there briefly and he did contribute.

I think it was previously said to be an early take of "She's Got Rhythm" and not the final, thus I'm not sure about that.

Could be but I had the impression he was used by what Alan said to me back when we talked about.