The Smiley Smile Message Board

A little experiment to try.

Listen to "Think About the Days," "The Private Life of Bill and Sue," "Strange World" and "Pacific Coast Highway." Try to listen without any preconceptions about what you're hearing, about who might be singing. Listen a couple of times if needed.

Now. Answer this question: Can you hear any audible evidence that any member of the band besides Brian (and, of course, Jeff) is singing on any of those tracks?

I can't.

Next experiment. Listen to "Shelter," "Beaches In Mind" and "Summer's Gone." Besides Mike's small parts on the first and last of those, and his verse leads on the middle one, do you hear any audible evidence of any other member of the band (besides BW and JF)?

Next experiment. We know that "Isn't It Time" was a last-minute addition to the album, recorded with all the guys together. Now, listen to that. Notice how the harmonies are ragged. Notice how you can hear several different voices throughout, and on the harmony parts. That strikes me as being a genuine group recording. And it sounds radically different from anything else on the record.

The TWGMTR album, with a couple of exceptions, was mostly written and recorded before the rest of the group was involved. We already know this. We also know that Brian and Jeff had laid down the preliminary background parts themselves.

When the other band members comeon board, they clearly need some lead vocal slots. So you have Mike and Al and Bruce pop up here and there on the record. But what if, rather than going in and replacing all of those Brian and Jeff backing parts one-by-one, it was decided to just leave them there? Who would know? Who would tell?

Well, maybe it would be Mike, who has been griping about the album's recording for a long time. Maybe it would be some of the other band members, who never seemed to know any of the tracks besides the two singles or songs that they tried fruitlessly to get on the record.

I wonder. And the more I listen to TWGMTR, the more I wonder.

I'm of the same mind. For whatever reason--time, politics, ease, quality--it seems to me that non-Brian BBs are strategically plugged in to make a Beach Boys record.

It becomes especially apparent when you realize that Brian is singing bass parts on the record. Notably Spring Vacation and Strange World.

I hear Al & Bruce on "Think About The Days".. no Mike though.

Either way, definitely makes you look at the album in a different light.

edit: Meh, I still think I hear em all over the album.  The bass part on "Strange World" sounds like Mike to me. And that harmony "ahh" that pans before the last chorus (as well as several other little harmony spots throughout the album) has some non-BW/Foskett tones to it.

I've no doubt that Brian and Jeff sing a majority of the parts on many of the songs, especially in the suite. But I can clearly hear the other guys on "Bill and Sue", especially in the a cappella-ish break. And they're all on "Think About The Days", at least a little (again, there may be multiple Jeffs on there - but I hear more Al and Bruce on that one than I do Brian, and I hear a little of Mike's tenor as well, but not his bass - or any bass part at all, for that matter, which is the one thing that bugs me about that song...well, that and the obvious autotune).

As ever, Craig sounds more reasoned than I do. I was genuinely curious to hear what other people thought.

Clearly there are a handful of tunes where the guys do a fair bit (the title track, Isn't It Time, From There to Back Again), but on much of the rest of the album I'm finding it hard to shake the impression -- a couple of years after the fact -- that it was a bit of a put-on.

Clearly it made Brian more comfortable to do it that way, but it also suggests the reunion was a much more limited affair than we supposed at the time. At least in the studio.

It's true that Brian and Jeff cover most of the vocals. But "Think About the Days" and "The Private Life of Bill and Sue" definetely have the whole band, or at least I can hear Al and Bruce pretty clearly. And still, to me That's Why God Made the Radio is the closest thing to a sole group record they've come up with after 15 Big Ones, not composition wise, but the fact that they're all there together.

I hear Alan & Bruce (the falsetto) on "TATD". Mike on bass on "TPLOBAS"

Question for you: do you hear Brian on "Daybreak" ? Or Bruce ?

I'm kind of surprised that you can't hear Mike's bass vocal on "The Private Life of Bill and Sue," and I'm pretty sure that's his bass on "Strange World," too.  I think you're right that Brian and Jeff take most of the vocals on more than a few songs, but the other members are definitely there.

Like other posters, I hear more than just Brian and Jeff on the songs the OP mentioned. Not a true group effort, in that it's a pre-manufactured album from BW-JT (and JF vocally). But has there really been a true group effort in the last two or three decades? Notwithstanding the agenda he may have, Mike has a point when he claims a true, "normal", collaboration with Brian. This was not. Good album, nevertheless.

Mike and Bruce are both very clearly audible on TPLOBAS. I hear Bruce on  TATD, too.

I hear the real Beach Boys on most of the songs (and as some of you know, I've been pretty skeptical about some aspects of this record). I think this was the one thing that the producers made sure of, to make sure it sound like 'The Beach Boys'. There's an unmistakable BeachBoys-ness in the vocal tracks.

That said, I don't think it's anything new to have only one or two Beach Boys on a track. I can't hear a true BB blend in something like 'Sail on Sailor' or 'Full Sail'.

Good point.  I think Sail On Sailor is largely Carl, Billy Hinsche, Gerry Beckley, right?

And Full Sail is a lot of Carl and Bruce

I can definitely hear Bruce on “Think About the Days”, and what sounds like Mike in there too. Al is also perhaps the most identifiable there, doing the “doo-doo-doo” bits.

It certainly sounds like Al doing some of the “doo-doo-doo” bits in the backing on “Strange World” as well. Seriously, I wonder if Brian just *really* likes Al’s voice vocalizing “doo-doo” (fill in your own joke here folks). 

I think there is also video evidence of all the guys (or at least Brian, Mike, Al, and Bruce) doing the backing vocals to “Shelter.” I think that’s in the “Doin’ It Again” documentary. 

I just think on some of this stuff Jeff is doing a falsetto part and at least one if not more of the mid-range parts, so some stuff does have a “stack of Fosketts” sound even though the other guys are there to varying degrees.

There are definitely points where it’s a case of “oh yeah, *that’s* the Beach Boys singing”, such as the vocal intro to “Pacific Coast Highway.” The blend there is the closest to the 80’s/90’s Beach Boys blend. I can almost hear Carl in the stack on that one. Mike’s bass is strong, and that’s one where I can pick out all of the guys (again, barring Dave, who probably isn’t vocally prevalent on the album).

Only one I hear for certain is Al on the intro. At least that one has credits for a separate cast of background singers.

And no -- it doesn't sound like Mike on bass in TPLOBAS to me. Or really anywhere else other than Isn't It Time.

I swear I hear MIke doing his doo-wop bass thing on From Here To Back Again.

Isnt it Caroline No all Brian? And GOK only Brian, Carl and Bruce? Thats not me only Brian and Mike?

I mean its pretty standard for BBs records not to employ fully all members. And if Pet Sounds can act as a baseline, then TWGMTR is as normal as any other BB record.

Nope?

Ragged as the harmonies might have been (I don't hear it so much) "Isn't It Time" was the best thing about the TWGMTR album for me and Mike's doo-wops really made that a GREAT song.  I wished they'd done a whole album with that style.

That song is the classic BB's vocal sound!

Yeah, Isn't It Time is a BB classic, just as much as the "life-suite" is. It should've been the lead single, as much as I love the title track, it's pretty dull and non-commercial.

I guess I'm the only one that doesn't really care for Isn't It Time.

Yeah, he's on toward the end of it. That's why I didn't include it in any of my examples -- Al has a whole lead section, Brian has a section, and then Mike has a wordless coda bit. A nice use of the band's most distinctive voices.

The Light Album: I don't think there's a track which includes all six, and very often less than that. No Brian or Dennis on "HCTN"... in fact, Brian's barely on it, period. A lot of it is just Carl & Bruce.

I thought the original (album) version of the song was fantastic. I wouldn't have wanted a whole album like that and was glad for some of the other material as well, but it was really, really strong. (Single version didn't suit my taste as much. I thought it almost ruined it, to be honest.)

My query on the TWGMTR album is different again. Listening closely to the guys singing, there seem to be several instances of missing consonants and vowels, as if much (clumsy, digital) cutting and slicing of different takes had to be done to achieve the final product. Any one else hear this?

Mmm-hmm. Although at least some of it could simply be Brian singing less than crisply.

The vocals are some nipped and tucked on that album it can be almost impossible to imagine what they started with ...

I never minded it on something like "Imagination," where the wall-of-Brians was kind of the gimmick of the whole thing. But on TWGMTR, we certainly could have stood to hear some less-processed blend ...

I'd go one further...the single version DID ruin it for me, and was worse than anything on SIP.

Agreed. I hear it particularly between Mike's individual lines "Isn't it time we dance the night away / how about doing it just like yesterday" and in the first few lines of Al's lines in "From There to Back Again", such as between the words "Why don't you...". Maybe I'm hearing things, but some edits seemed to jump out awkwardly at me upon first and second listen. I totally understand the desire to comp together a bunch of takes to get the best one (especially since some of bandmembers may not want to do a ton of takes), but I concur that some of the editing is sloppy, unfortunately.

I suppose the same could be said for some of Brian's sloppy edits/mixes in the '60s, but somehow in the digital realm it's less excusable to me, since it should theoretically be easier to fix.

That said, I'm mighty grateful to have the album, and despite its flaws, there are lots of great moments.

I'm also in (probably) the minority in preferring the "Isn't it Time" (single version).

Yeah. That's the problem with the album. I like it a lot, but they definitely used way too much auto tune on it. I can understand fixing a few spots, but they covered every vocal on the album with it. They used so much that it makes it harder to distinguish which person sang on certain songs.

This comment is not a criticism of Jeff Foskett; I like his voice and he did a fine job on TWGMTR. But, if I could change one thing vocally on the album, it would be to have Brian sing the falsetto lyrical parts. One example is the line on "Isn't It Time" that goes, "And as the sun goes down we raise our glass..." Another example is on "Shelter" where Jeff sings "I'll give you shelter from the storm, and a house to keep you warm...", and to a lesser extent Jeff's high voice is very prominent on the title track.

I know it's a little nitpicking, but it just isn't the same when there is a high, sensitive vocal and Brian isn't singing it - and you know he was sitting right there! I get kind of a let-down feeling, like "come on, Brian, go for it, that's we what we love to hear, when you go high". Could've he sang it as clear as Jeff? No. But I think I would've sacrificed a little clarity for the emotion that Brian carries in his high vocals. And, with a little technical help ;) I thought Brian could've pulled those high parts off...

I'd like to agree with you but I just can't. Honestly I don't think Brian could do a passable version of those parts (without absurd technological assistance). I know I'm a broken record on this, but the vocal deterioration that adds character to people whose music isn't tight-harmony based--Cohen, Dylan, Waits--doesn't work for Wilson. It can in the occasional situation, but generally speaking a creaking or croaking part doesn't add character to his music, it just detracts. I know people have strong opinions about parts from original members, or family members of original members, etc., and I'm not weighing in on that at the moment. But while I wish I could say yes, Brian should and could do it, I don't think that's true. His voice is still beautiful sometimes, but not in that register on any consistent basis.

I think the single should have been FTTBA/PCH.  Maybe not an obvious choice but these (and SG) are so superior to the rest of the album and its hits you on such an emotional level that it could have been a hit.

I think Brian (or even Al, reportedly) can squeak out some form of falsetto in the studio under the right circumstances.

But I don't think Brian could do those solo falsetto leads in the bits on "Isn't It Time" or "Shelter." They would have autotuned his attempt to death even more than the rest of the album had he tried.

My vague recollection is that Joe Thomas contended in an interview that the bits of "Shelter" that Mike sings in unison with the falsetto are Brian and Mike, not Jeff and Mike. I'm not 100% convinced of that, but I think Brian could eek out a falsetto like that. But not the solo lead bits that he wrote that Jeff sang.

Brian does sing falsetto on "Think About the Days" and sounds pretty good. I think he might be doing a bit of falsetto in TPLOBAS, too, although it's largely obscured by Jeff's parts.

I think part of SJS's point was that the songs would have to be brought down a bit to allow Brian to sing them in his current voice, even in falsetto, and I think I agree with that. It would sound fine if the pieces were pitched lower.

I truly didn't mind Foskett's voice  when the album came out, but over the last couple of years it's grated on me more. It doesn't make anything unlistenable to me, but (as stated earlier in the thread) his presence on two parts of most harmony stacks make it very hard to hear anyone else besides Brian. It was balanced better at the live shows.

Yes, and I was also basing my opinion on Brian's vocal work on his previous two efforts, the Gershwin and Disney albums. He turned in some impressive vocals on those albums, and I'll admit that I was looking forward to more of those on TWGMTR. While Brian's vocals on TWGMTR are certainly passable, again I was hoping he'd "go for it" a little more.

I also think if Brian wanted to, and was well enough, he sure could get those notes no worry....

does he want to?  probably not, we know he likes to handball parts out, even if he can do them better himself...

isn't that Brian?...... he's been shooting off parts to others since producing other artists since what? 1963?

Brian's falsetto is one of a kind..... even his later stuff is great.....  stuff like neil diamonds, 'delirious love', shows he still has it...

and on Gershwin's 'rhapsody' intro......

lets not forget eh......... the guys..... 72??

let's not expect 1966 Brian in 2014.

maybe someday we will get extensive 'boxsets' worth of Brian's demo's/works one day in the works showing the greatness of the guy still here...

RickB

There tends to be a certain "Brian is Superman" idea sometimes. "He could do it if he wanted to." While that may apply in terms of writing, arranging, or even nailing vocal parts in certain ranges, I'd strongly question whether he can hit notes he hasn't regularly hit in 40 years. Sorry, but he hasn't had the sweet tenor or CLEAR falsetto since the 15BO vocal change. I'd love to say otherwise, but can't. He has sung sweetly, emotively, sure! He has sung (a different) falsetto. But he can't hit those notes "no problem" and he never will.

As you said, he's 72 (or whatever he is). Real life and its* consequences impact even Brian Wilson.


*This post originally said "it's," which was a phone error. Fucking predictive text. I am an imperfect man, but I know the difference between its and it's. It's damn near the only thing I know.

There was some "Isn't It Time" discussion earlier, and while I don't mean to derail things, let's be honest, things are already somewhat derailed (and technically this is a question about TWGMTR, and thus fair game as literally perfectly befitting the subject of the thread). So, for those assorted people who pay more attention to such things than I do:

Is anyone else bothered by Mike's voice starting at 2:36 of the album version of "Isn't It Time," but especially as he sings "doin' it just like yesterday"? Is there a chorus effect, or just an off-kilter multitracked voice? I often hear this song in headphones while running, and that part literally makes me uneasy. I picture little atoms jumping around, bouncing.

Glad I could expose my weirdness and ignorance (again).

He sounded great on The Like in In Love You. He'd sound just as good on the vocals SJS mentioned.

It goes beyond my understanding why Foskett is so prominent on Beaches in Mind. There's nothing special or worthwhile about his vocal there, and any of the main guys could have done a better job at it.

I just disagree. I don't think Brian could have done good versions. I don't see what his "The Like in I Love You" vocals have to do with it.

Ummm... I think that's Bruce. Sure I recall reading that somewhere.

Not all of it. A phrase at the end. Bruce may be singing some falsetto bits earlier in the tune ...

Yep, they took what was by some considerable distance the best non-suite song on the album and completely and utterly ruined it. The single version of ITT is the equivalent of that version of ET where Steven Spielberg added in a load of computer generated ET's and replaced the armies guns with sticks or feather dusters or something.

Check out 0:53. He's mixed low, but I'm pretty sure that's Brian on top of the stack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty5uhLDLFcg

Would've cool if there was more of this throughout the album. The only other place BW shoots into falsetto is on "Pacific Coast Highway", and he sounds great (although I tend to believe that particular vocal section dates back to '98. just has that Imagination sound)

It's a little annoying because he CAN still hit falsetto. You can hear it when he sings "God Only Knows" live. How high exactly? God only knows, but I'm sure he could've covered 99% of the falsetto stuff on TWGMTR. Even if he had just done the top of the harmony stacks, that would've been a more authentic BB's sound. For the falsetto leads, they could've had Jeff sing in unison with Brian if it sounded that weak. I'm sure BW just didn't feel like doing it and I doubt anyone was there to push the issue. Oh well.


Haha. Yeah, pretty sure that's just Mike all over the place with his timing. A little less sloppiness on his vocals overall would've been nice. But I suppose it's true to life.


edit:

Slightly self-indulgent sidenote re: Brian not singing falsetto now:

A few years ago I had the privilege of producing a Ronnie Spector session. We cut a modernized version of Be My Baby (unreleased.. think "All About That Bass" stylistically). I made the track in the original key and referenced the vocals for her. She loved it, we get to the studio.. she listens to it on the monitors and says "the key's too high". I said something like "well, that's the original key". She takes off her sunglasses, looks at me and says (again I'm paraphrasing) "I can't hit the notes like I used to. We'll do it in a lower key." So, being that the track was produced already and I couldn't quickly recut the guitars, we pitch-shifted the 2 track on the spot for her to record to.

Anyway, when she said she didn't wanna go for the high notes (so to speak), I wasn't gonna sit there and argue with a legend. Granted Brian's more of a workhorse in the studio, I'd imagine it could be a similar situation for him. Why bother straining if Jeff already sang the parts to his satisfaction.  :)

Another sidenote, I told her I loved the Beach Boys, and she told me how much she loved Brian and went into the story about him writing "Don't Worry Baby" for her, but Phil not allowing them to cut it. Great times!

Although I love the track "Strange World", but every time I hear it I'm annoyed that Brian does both the lead vocal AND the overlapping "doodoodoo"s. It's not a focking solo record, Brian!

What trips me out about Brian these days (and really for the past 15 years plus) is that he could sing in concert and sound a bit shaky, but clips of him playing the piano and singing (to demonstrate a song, not for performance) and sound good as hell. Most likely because he's more relaxed. Frame of mind is everything. Likely a reason too why he sounded better during the C50 shows from June on than he did at any of his solo shows before or since, even nailing falsettos the sadly few times he tried.

I'd rather have the BBs sing the lyrics in a lower key, or slightly off key, rather than the robotic patchwork of autotune and Jeff that we ended up with.

I don't care if a word or a whole line is off, i don't care if the falsetto is shaky. These are 70 year old human beings, not Beyonce. i don't expect a flawless performance, i expect the Beach Boys to SING the majority of their own songs.

TWGMTR is hard to listen to. It's jarring.

That said, i do like Isn't It Time. A funky, percussive pop song.

It's a missed opportunity they didn't take a production approach similar to Postcard from California in it's final (current?) form - perhaps there is some auto-v jiggery-pokery on PFC, but if so, can't say I've noticed.

It could all be down to hearing. When he's playing piano by himself with no band and no PA he probably has no pitch problem whatsoever. With the C50 shows, for the majority of the shows, he was far more physically removed from the band than he is for his solo shows, which meant his monitor mix would be much easier for him to hear than it would typically be.

Comping takes doesn't really involve much in the way of "slicing" per say anymore, at least not in the manner most people envision.

For the past 5+ years now, most major DAWs (Pro Tools, Logic, etc.) have had comp lanes which basically allow you to see a stack of takes, each in separate lanes and comp them together in about 30 seconds. You can click and drag over different sections in each lane and the master lane will reflect each part that you've highlighted, playing in one seamless stream. To make these edits clean, the DAW will introduce very light cross fading at each "merge", to keep from having any pops if the edit isn't done at a zero cross point. Unless the engineer manually changes the X-Fade time or uses two totally unrelated takes, you shouldn't really run into any clipped notes. This editing method is used on vocals, drums, guitars, you name it. It's pretty fool proof, so anything you're hearing was most likely purposeful in delivery or a result of specific mix decisions.

The production of Al's album is absolutely fantastic - with a very crisp sound to the engineering/mixing. He's using some seriously high quality gear but for the most part going for a very dry sound. The final production (as well as the ad-libbed vocal parts) give it a major "performance" vibe, which works quite well with the songs, arrangements, etc. Looking at TWGMTR, I can't think of any way that this could've been applied to Brian's arrangements, certainly not the second half, without strongly affecting the emotional impact.

Producing TWGMTR like APCFC would be like taking this:

(http://i.imgur.com/7aTilrt.jpg?1)

and presenting it as:

(http://i.imgur.com/0mVw5NB.jpg?1)

My apologies that the perspective is different on the two.

It's a pretty high vocal throughout. He sounds nice anf sweet in it. The highest note in the Foskett lead on IIT is only one whole tone higher than the highest note on TLIILY. He surely could have done it.

I have trouble picking out individual voices in the harmonies on this album because of all the Godforsaken Auto-Tune. >:( It sucks the life and nuances out of the vocals and makes everybody sound like a freaking android. It's meant to be used as a tool to smooth over a note here and there in otherwise acceptable/good/great takes. It isn't supposed to be an end unto itself. Unfortunately, somebody involved in the production of the album (I suspect Joe Thomas, or one of the lawyers/executives at Capitol who know nothing about good music and couldn't care less about such) thinks it's the modern equivalent of a good echo chamber. Furthermore, considering the way that The Beach Boys have tracked their vocals since 1963, i.e., doubling, tripling and even quadrupling the parts, the use of Auto-Tune is flatly unnecessary, as the aforementioned, tried and true production techniques create a natural form of Auto-Tune, psychoacoustically (yes, that's a real word) speaking.

Something else about the vocals on the album in question: The unfortunate absence of Carl Wilson.

It doesn't matter how many walls of Foskett and Brian you insert into the vocals, the missing -and arguably most crucial- element in the vocal blend cannot be compensated for. I've long understood that Carl's voice was (more often than not quite literally) the center of the vocal blend but it wasn't until this album came out that I truly appreciated this fact. Doesn't matter how the parts are arranged either, the richness that Carl's voice brought to the stack is simply gone. Even if all non-Beach Boys (and the Auto-Tune) were removed from the album, the blend would still not be right. (Since this is the Internet, I'll now say what I shouldn't have to: Please refrain from snarking that Carl's absence can't be helped -I'm just making an observation here.) 

Brian is absolutely on it. Around 42 seconds and again 55 seconds.

Its amazing that Al could sound so much like Brian back in the day and nowadays he can sound just like Mike. "You've been thinking bout some things we used to do" from FTABA sounds just like a young Mike.

That is correct.

At :42 I know that's Brian on the high part, followed by Bruce on the higher part right? Does Foskett have any falsetto on TATD?

I recall him being all over the place on it. I'll grab times in a sec.

Interesting, does it mean the autotune makes him sound like Mike? Although granted, the next line is even more crammed with autotune.

I think that part is actually sung by Mike. I think Mike is harmonizing in there, and they're doing a little unison. There are quite a few examples of this on BB records ... 'All This is That' and a lot of the M.I.U. Album comes to mind.

It's Al. Mike's nasal tenor doesn't show up at all on the rest of the album. Seems an odd time to start using it.
Al has a similar delivery Mike-like delivery on the "pacific coast getaway" line, where its more obviously just Al.

Thanks for the interestin' response and differentiation re the dry approach on Postcards, gives me a different perspective/approach for when I next listen.  :)

Just to clarify my vague post, I was specifically talking about the vocal production on TWGMTR - ie, the obvious use of autotoon; as opposed to Postcard - if there is autotune on the Postcard vox, I haven't noticed, and wish they'd pull it back a tad on TWetc

He's the first falsetto you hear on the song. Contrast with Bruce's "woooah" at 10s and 40s.

I don't think so. I know I've noticed other times where Al has sounded like Mike, but can't think of any examples at the moment.

It might be more accurate to say that Al could quite often sound like Mike, but its more obvious nowadays that Mike's voice is more breathy and less nasal.

"You've been thinking bout some things we used to do" is Mike!

"Thinkin' bout when life was still in front of you" is Al.

Given the way they punched in vocals, it's not too much of a stretch that they traded off lines like that. Al himself said he sang FFTBA one line at a time.

It's all Al.

Nevermind

"From There to Back Again" is definitely all Al (up until Brian's part obviously).

The reasons the vocals are sometimes hard to discern on that album include:

1. Autotune

2. The way the voices are layered and overlap, both in terms of performance and mix. Sometimes sounds good, sometimes turns the recording/mix to mush. Not talking about harmonies, but lead vocal parts. One of the reasons why even that huge amazing band was turning live takes of "TWGMTR" into a trainwreck, because it was impossible to replicate the way they stitched that song together in the studio.

3. The processing. This all kind of weaves in and out mixing and autotune issues. But listen to Al's vocals (and Brian's bits for that matter) on Al's "Postcard" album. Al still sometimes (if not usually) cuts basic tracks on analog tape and then dumps into ProTools to edit/mix/overdub, etc. But there is more purity and warmth to some of the stuff on that album, simply because they were more simple recordings.