The Smiley Smile Message Board

My  wife and I just watched Love & Mercy last weekend and it's incredible.  Tonight I put on Brian's first solo album, and showed her it was produced by Landy - she'd never heard it before.  We put it on, and the songs are so great, it's just that the production is awful, so excessive 80's and with too much plastic synth and treble. 

So imagine that Brian goes back to the studio with the current band and they record and release an un-Landy version of BRIAN WILSON produced in the style of PET SOUNDS - wouldn't it be nice?

No. The album is what it is.

And the '80s sounds are not necessarily because of Landy. I'm sure Brian had quite a lot to do with it. If anything I've felt that Brian Wilson kinda ratches up the Love You sound and moved it into the '80s.

Nobody was immune to that production style in the late 80s. 

For proof, listen to anything from Roger Waters's 1987 album, Radio KAOS. 

Rather than re-recording BW88, and essentially covering himself yet again, how about a tour in 2018 to mark the 30th Anniversary where he and his band perform the album?

Love the production of BW88 as it is.

Landy didn't have anything to do with the production aspect other than his influence on Brian.  The album was mostly produced by Brian and Russ Titleman with co-production by Andy Paley on a few tracks and Lenny Waronker on "Rio Grande".  Jeff Lynne produced "Let It Shine".  The synth-heavy sound of the album had nothing to do with Brian's condition or Landy's influence, it's simply just a product of its time.

Leave
the
plastic
synth
ALONE ...

There's something to the idea of doing alternate versions of some of those songs in a less bombastic, 80s synth-heavy sound. The two '88 tracks on the IJWMFTT soundtrack are an example of that. I quite like the IJWMFTT tracks and their sound; just wish different backing vocals could be grafted on somehow.

Remakes might be interesting. Trying to make them sound like "Pet Sounds"-era productions would be weird, though. I'm actually not a big fan of when Brian tries to ape that '65/'66 sound. Sounds too contrived to me (sometimes). The plinky baritone guitars and excessive clinky percussion, sparse drums, etc. Not always a fan of when Brian does that now. Worked perfectly back in that actual 60s timeframe.

Let's complete the circle----re-release the un-remastered 1988 version of BRIAN WILSON. ;D

It would indeed be nice - certainly something I've fantasized about - but probably a waste of time at the end of the day. I'd prefer more original material rather than another cover album.

Besides, I think the biggest problem with the album isn't the production (which does sound ugly in places, although I really rather like how grandiose the arrangements are, and you can forgive it as a product of its time), it's just that the material is kinda scattershot. If every song were as good as the first four, even with the same sound intact, we'd still have a stone cold classic.

I'm with sweetdudejim anyway really, it is what it is and I love it despite its flaws.

What I've never liked about the album was the way Brian's voice sounded at that time, the tone of his voice , his style of singing, whatever you want to call it. I know it's has been referred to as "shouty Brian". It was almost as if he forgot how to sing at that point. The beauty was gone from his voice.

Brian was singing a lot better on that album than he had in a long time - just compare his vocals on BW88 with his work on 15BO or LY. The synths? Brian and the guys he was working with - including Gary Usher - were trying to bring him into the 80's. They tried it on BB85, and they try it on BW88. The goal was to have some hit records, get some radio airplay. If Brian had come out with an album in 1988 recorded the way PS was, the reviews would have been "well isn't this quaint, Brian is trying to recapture his past". It would have been a lot less commercial than what was released; that approach might have worked for a rockabilly or traditionalist band like Los Lobos or Marshall Crenshaw; wasn't going to work for Brian Wilson. Even bands that claimed a lot of influence from the 60's - the Bangles - ended up going the synth heavy route.

Let's complete the circle - BDW should go back in the studio and rerecord Pet Sounds with acoustic guitars and pitch correction, just like it was originally envisioned.

BW88 is great the way it is. I'm glad not every single BW solo record follows the same old Pet Sounds/Summer Days sound palette gone MOR or Adult Contemporary. That's why I also really like Orange Crate Art, despite its many flaws. It was different.

Tom Waits was immune to the 80's production style (ex. swordfishtrombones and rain dogs)

You're right, I shouldn't have said everybody went all in on 1980s production. 

AC/DC sure didn't. 

Depending on the band/artist, some are better at adapting to the 80s sound, and it doesn't sound so synthetic.  ie. Van Halen incorporated synths, but really just used them as an extension of their sound. 

OCA should be re recorded if anything is.  Lovely songs but too many of them suffer from the "Mickey Mouse with a sore throat" effect.    Imagine the title cut resung by Brian in his current natural voice.    Much better.

Totally agree...partly because it was the sound of the times.....and also because of what I was told in the mid-90s when I was lamenting opnline how it seems that the stuff Brian had been doing -- the '88 album, Sweet Insanity, the random tribute album contributions, etc. -- had been all synths, and how I wish that Brian would just once have actual instruments and musicians. Then-fan club president Lauri Klobas [RIP] said fat chance, that Brian liked using synths and other stuff because then he didn't have to hire extra musicians, he could just sequence everything himself and be done with it.

AC/DC most definitely went 80s on Fly on the Wall and the new stuff on Who Made Who. Not many synths, obviously, but they've got the gated drums, vocals sounding like they were recorded in a cavern, and that big echoey, tinny sound.

Those records would have sounded better with different production choices, but Brian Wilson '88? That's perfect. I wouldn't change a thing.

I think pop artists, as opposed to hard rock, or roots artists, were expected to go the synth route in the 80s/90s. It's not like you were going to hear Johnny Cash or Rick Nelson recording with drum machines and synths, but I'm sure it seemed a natural direction for the Beach Boys and Brian Wilson to go.

And of course what was then termed "alternative."

Technically, isn't the released version the "un-Landy" version? Rumors abound of a Landy mix of the album that reportedly elicited laughter from people.

True, dat.

Aren't some of the Landy versions of songs on the Come Back Brian boot?

Yes :) And what was called alternative became the mainstream.  ::)

Absolutely true.

I was on the side of the original poster at one point. I'm sure you could find similar sentiments from me on this board. But I've changed my mind on this. It's not that I have grown to like the production on the original album--I haven't--but rather that to do it in another style would be every bit as artificial (or more artificial) than its original version. The original is (to state the obvious) the original. Whatever led to it, led to it. That is what it is; it wasn't something else that was manipulated into a corruption.

So while I might have liked it more had it been otherwise, it wasn't. It's a moot point of course, just a message-board hypothetical, but I'd hate for Brian to waste whatever time and energy he'd got left rerecording an album just to "improve" its production, especially since judgments of production shift with styles.

I like the production as it is.  I understand some people can't stand it, though, and that's their prerogative. 

Unfortunately I feel that music gets sterilized because there's a style of production that people have come to expect everything to be recorded in.  Even if you'd prefer music to be recorded clean with less effects, etc. that still homogenizes the way people record music and takes some of the creativity out of it. 

Just my opinion. 

I completely agree with you, Ron. Not about liking the production, but everything else you said.

AC/DC's songwriting may have went slightly 80s. 

But, they didn't use any synths ala Van Halen or Roger Waters

They also didn't glam up their look the way that Kiss and even Judas Priest did. 

It would be worth a try, and while we're at it, I'd like Pet Sounds style produced versions of Love You and NPP, too.

Thing is, another 27 years down the line, opinion might turn against a BW88/15 production style. Should it then be re-re-recorded?

And why re-do something in 1966-style? Why should one of pop's greatest innovators and finest arrangers and melody writers suddenly have to turn the clock back 49 years?

Let sleeping dogs lie, I reckon; I love it just the way it is, and I enjoy listening to Brians constant ongoing musical evolution.

I think a good percentage of Brian's fans wish he had never moved past 1966/67. I know it's easy to criticize the 80's sound of BW88 now, but when it came out, it was in step with the times soundwise. If Brian and his collaborators had recorded in the 1966 style in 1988, the result would have been panned as sounding stuck in the past. Who has the vision to know what is going to sound cool or hip 20 years into the future? And as you suggest, in another 20 years, people might be digging the 80's sounds again.

Sooner than that, even. In fact 80s-style production has been quite big in the pop world again for a few years now. Probably not amongst people who were around when BW88 first came out, much less those who were there when Pet Sounds first dropped, but, amongst, you know... pop kids (I can't type that without it looking horrendously condescending... for what it's worth, I *love* pop music, always have... and I'm now 44).

What goes around, comes around...

My biggest issue with the BW 1988 album isn't so much with the production, but with the consistency of the songs. 

I think the songs are all very good at the least, and some are excellent. In fact, it's always hard for me to pick 2 or 3 favorites from the album; Melt Away, There's So Many, Meet Me in My Dreams Tonight, Let it Shine, Rio Grande, Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long....this album was so great to hear in 1988, after years of hearing that Brian was going to do a solo album. The anticipation had been building up ever since 1985, when he first talked of doing it. By '88, I was beginning to doubt it would ever come out. I still think it's his best solo album of original material, although TLOS comes close.

I can see where you're coming from.  I really only got into Brian's solo material in the last three years or so. 

It's probably just above Imagination for my 3rd favorite BW solo album.  #2 is NPP.  #1 is TLOS. 

OCA is right up there for me, but Brian didn't write it, so kind of a separate category. But again, it was so good to hear after 7 freaking years without a new album from Brian! Hard to believe these days, when he is cranking out something new on a regular basis.

I would actually be sort of interested to hear Landy's mix of the self-titled record just for the what the fuckness of it all. Still my favorite solo Brian album. Head and shoulders above everything he has done on his own. It has that Love You feel to it; that much raw honesty, the sheer "f*** it, let's make a record" feeling is still a blast to hear today. I actually like the "shouty" vocals on the record. They work, as do the arrangements and instrumentation.

f*** if I know HOW or WHY it works so well, but that's the beauty behind Brian's music. A lot of times the stuff SHOULDN'T work but it does brilliantly.

You're right about evrything in this post, at least I agree with it - yet I would still love to hear it all recorded in that glorious 1965/66 style! :)

I'd like to hear Pet Sounds done in Sweet Insanity style!!!  :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Personally, I like BW88 production a lot better than Imaginations production. And there is no way in hell I would want Love You 'Pet Soundsed up'. I like Love You the way it is. And while the last 10 years of Brian's solo work has been solid in the Pet Sounds style of production, especially Reimagines Gershwin, my favorite productions in Brian's solo career are some of the 90s Payley sessions that are on youtube. Most of all 'Chain Reaction' !!

Uh... people who know better...? The ephemeral 'Top 40 sound' isn't anything new to the industry. The same minds who thought DX7s were an acceptable compromise over organic instruments also think pitch correction is an acceptable compromise over multiple vocal takes.

Yes, we love our 60's records - one group of musicians playing together in a room; our Beach Boys gathered around only a couple of microphones, doing it for real. But I'm sure there are also lots of people who like the 80's sound. There's no right or wrong way, just what you like. I'm open to more than one way of doing things.

Talking about BW88, say what you will about Brian's singing style at the time, at the very least it did sound passionate. I'd take Walkin' the Line over most of his later solo stuff any day.

:hat

Personally  I think the production on Melt Away, There's So Many, Rio Grande and Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long and One for the Boys is perfect. In fact the only one that dissapoints production wise is Love & Mercy and we've got several remakes already so I can listen to them whenever I feel the need. It's a great album.

IMO, the BW88 vocals sound afraid. Tense, anxious, desperate. All with good reason, of course.

Starting with Imagination, Brian's vocals have re-acquired the laid-back quality that made his golden-era leads distinctive. Less range and a somewhat ragged timbre, sure, but he sounds cool again.

Tense, yes, but anxious, desperate? I'm not sure about this. Does he sound desperate on a song like Melt Away? Frankly I don't hear it. My only (small) complaint about his singing on BW88 is that he sounds a bit like Ozzy, which took some getting used to. At first I found it a bit irritating but now I just really like it all. To me, POB is the very best BB solo album and BW88 is the one I personally play the most.

When I listened to BW88 again a couple of years ago after years of not listening to it I found the singing much better than how I had remembered it. My personal favorite BB solo album is TLOS though. Not only is it a fun album to listen to, IMHO it has Brian's best post-1973 singing. (I'd like to hear that album in a 1965-66 soundscape too... :wink)

I think Brian is singing a lot better on BW88 than he was in the 15BO/LY era. The first hints that he was improving being on BB85. No, it's not the sound of young Brian, but considering how much damage he'd inflicted on his vocal chords previously, very impressive.

I would like a version of this album released that eliminated all of the existing percussion and replaced those tracks with a rhythm track consisting of just a bass drum and a snare (and some sleighbells, where appropriate). The synths don't bug me, I agree that they seem like an "organic" extension of Brian's Love You approach, but those drums, man... way too much treble-prone cymbals.

Actually, I would like all of Brian's solo material to be de-drummed and those tracks replaced by just bass drum/snare.

glad I found this thread, as these thoughts of the OP matched my own.  I was thinking how some people consider Pet Sounds a BW solo album.
Then got to thinking about BW88, and like others have said, I would have loved to have heard these done back in 65/66 with the wrecking crew.
Im not saying I don't like 88, but imagining how most of those songs work makes me think moreso, yeah, Pet Sounds really was Brian's debut as such
as a solo artist.  Imagine 'one for the boys' with the guys' blend of harmonies.  'baby let your hair grow long', fit's in with the 'caroline no' category.
'rio grande' wow!, SMILE here we come!
'little children', while not melancholy, fits into the childlike theme and before the loss of innocence. 
'melt away' is so Brian it's not funny, along with 'you still believe in me', 'I just wasn't made'.
those are the songs that stick out most to me that could have been on 'pet sounds'.  While the soundstage is completely different, both albums for the most
part could have been merged and shout out to me Brian Wilson more than The Beach Boys.
However, nothing can ever replace that BB blend that made them so magical. 
Another thought, how would Pet Sounds sound done in the 1988 synth style?

In my opinion, Let It Shine is the exception.

Definitely seemed like Brian enjoyed using the synths at least in the Love You era (dying to hear those backing tracks)

I would say just leave BW88 alone, it's great as it is. What's the point in trying to rewrite history? I'm no great lover of Landy but he was a part of Brian's history.

What next? De-Mike-ing the whole Boys catalogue? Un-Manson-ing Never Learn Not to Love?

Brian should have/ could perform a lot more of these songs live with his current band, as part of a 'rarities' set I wish he would sometimes do 'just for the fans'.

What I would like to see is the resident posters who have so expertly covered BB songs in the past to make a "Today!-Smile" era version of BW88. Now, I can't contribute anything to this effort, so I'm just throwing it out there.

C'mon Smiley Smile message board, spend the next year re-arranging and re-recording BW88 just for my amusement!!!!!