The Autotune Thread

[Cam Mott]

Can someone get OGolden [?] the cleanest example of the suspected autotunage so he can run it through his software with "smoothing" or whatever turned off?

[b00ts]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU8l5WmUTAw&feature=relmfu

YSGTM-- especially between the 5 and 7 seconds area-- whoa, man...anyone who doesn't hear it there needs their ears cleaned. He sounds like Cher with her batteries in backwards.

There are 12 notes chromatically altogether, and 7 in any given scale. That means if the Autotune is set chromatically (which it evidently is), there are plenty of extra notes there that don't even belong in the key. So for example, if a song is in C major, and Brian attempts to sing an A (which is in the key of C) but he's 51% flat, the machine will cause it to come out as an A-flat (not in the key). So yes, he's still singing wrong notes, but the machine is making them worse.

Consider-- Brian, who always sings slightly out of tune at his solo shows,  almost NEVER sings just slightly out of tune in these recent videos.  A given note is either exactly and completely perfectly in tune, or it's exactly a half-step off (generally flat), or it flutters between the two options.

Someone needs to slow the audio to half speed (without a program that smooths note transitions), check the frequencies with a tuner, compare to s solo show, and post the results. Autotune (or some other brand of pitch correction) will absolutely and positively be evident, I (who have perfect pitch, and who tunes pianos by ear) promise you. I'd bet the proverbial farm on this.

You are right, Bill, there is very clear pitch correction on Brian's voice, but the problem here is that a) some people don't have the ears to hear it, and...

B) Some people apparently can't enjoy the Beach Boys concerts if there is autotune on Brian's voice, so they must fight a battle with everyone else, saying that there is absolutely no pitch correction, and they are 100% sure. Very strange.

In the end, it sucks and is disrespectful to Brian, but it isn't a huge deal; it is not a turd in the punchbowl of the reunion but more just a bit of fecal matter. In other words, the punch still tastes fine, and I will enjoy it until I get e. coli poisoning.

/Thread

IMHO it is a VERY BIG DEAL because the Beach Boys are famous for their harmonies and having the best of voices and here they are using autotune - can't you get it - its like finding out Eric Clapton has been miming all these years or John Coltrane's parts were played by someone else - its a big story waiting to happen and I can't believe the BBs management hadn't thought of that.

A scummy journo could have a field day

Can't I get it? Well yes, I can. I was saying that it is not going to ruin my enjoyment of the show. Of course I would rather there be no pitch correction, both in the live shows and on the new album.

If people don't hear it though, what do they care that the rest of us (the majority, mind you) do hear it? Many people around here have trained ears, much more trained than mine, and they hear it. The people who don't hear it are mostly the people who don't have trained ears.

That's all well and good. But why fight about it? In the end, yes, it sucks, but it should be 100% a non-issue for the people who can't hear the pitch correction in the first place. Why not just say "I can't hear it," and leave it at that, instead of arguing vehemently over it?

[desmondo]

1. What's the point in having autotune if it doesn't work??

There is no point, that's why they should stop using it

2. His band will know that his singing varies from night to night and they will know all about autotune and what it can't do and what it can do - I think they would have said something to say it is a crap idea and won't work

They may not have a say in the matter, and they may need to avoid rocking the boat in order to keep their jobs.

3. I have no doubt all the singers on stage would have Brian in their in-ears otherwise they wouldn't know how to harmonise with him and in Jeff's case support his leads - it really would sound rubbish with no monitors

As has been explained, standard operating procedure would be to not have the autotuned signal sent to the monitors, but only to the audience

4. ML is also off a lot on many of the songs they are doing

That sucks, but at least you can hear Mike's voice

1. In rehearsal they would have worked out it doesn't work

2. BW's band is very close to Melinda and she ain't going to lose her job

3. Monitors - you -tried harmonising with a crap singer - I am one and and would pity anyone trying to sing with me

4. Let's autotune mike

[b00ts]

For Christ's sake, Bill, he's singing flat notes like crazy. Can't you hear those? Those are plain bum notes; they are not pitch-corrected.

I explained that: "So for example, if a song is in C major, and Brian attempts to sing an A (which is in the key of C) but he's 51% flat, the machine will cause it to come out as an A-flat (not in the key). So yes, he's still singing wrong notes, but the machine is making them worse."

And they are not at all a half-step off. He's flatting plain and simple. C'mon man, you gotta hear that.
[/quote]

Please link a Youtube video, with the precise time at which you hear a flat note which is not a half-step (or whole-step) off, and the word he's singing when you hear this, and I'll get my guitar tuner ready,
[/quote]

Bill - so why use Autotune if its going to put Brian out of key anyway - doesn't make sense
[/quote]
This is exactly what we are all saying - the pitch correction is making Brian sound much worse than he would without it. On sustained notes, you can hear his voice "snapping" out of the note momentarily, digitally stepping down to another note very, very quickly and back up again, with none of the gradient/portamento effect that the human voice naturally has. Try using one of the aforementioned iPhone/Android apps and you will see what we are hearing in these videos.

[anazgnos]

1. In rehearsal they would have worked out it doesn't work

I wish that were what had happened.  Apparently whoever made this decision thinks it sounds just fine.  That decision is now open to criticism.

2. BW's band is very close to Melinda and she ain't going to lose her job

I am not as certain as you that the band members have veto power over Melinda, assuming she likes the idea or is OK with it.

3. Monitors - you -tried harmonising with a crap singer - I am one and and would pity anyone trying to sing with me

OK.  Brian's voice is whatever it is at this point.  Those who have to harmonize with him - that's their job.  I'm not sure what you're saying - that he needs to be autotuned so he's easier to harmonize with?  That's a pretty different argument from saying that they cannot possibly be using autotune at all, which is what you seem to be saying the rest of the time.

4. Let's autotune mike

I'd rather not but knock yourself out

[ontor pertawst]

You know, Mike sounds a bit processed on a few tracks of the Texas show too.

(ducks)

[anazgnos]

You know, Mike sounds a bit processed on a few tracks of the Texas show too.

(ducks)

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[RONDEMON]

I read that Mike Love has been a robot since 1969 and that he wore that big white robe to conceal his metal exo-skeleton.
He wears those rings on his fingers because they are solar power panels that recharge him.

[desmondo]

1. In rehearsal they would have worked out it doesn't work

I wish that were what had happened.  Apparently whoever made this decision thinks it sounds just fine.  That decision is now open to criticism.

2. BW's band is very close to Melinda and she ain't going to lose her job

I am not as certain as you that the band members have veto power over Melinda, assuming she likes the idea or is OK with it.

3. Monitors - you -tried harmonising with a crap singer - I am one and and would pity anyone trying to sing with me

OK.  Brian's voice is whatever it is at this point.  Those who have to harmonize with him - that's their job.  I'm not sure what you're saying - that he needs to be autotuned so he's easier to harmonize with?  That's a pretty different argument from saying that they cannot possibly be using autotune at all, which is what you seem to be saying the rest of the time.

4. Let's autotune mike

I'd rather not but knock yourself out

On the Melinda thing - I think his key band members would have/could have said to Melinda that AT wasn't working - I have no doubt she would have done something about it

Harmonising - I don't think they are using AT for all the reasons I gave above plus its a mega suicide note if they get found out

[desmondo]

[/quote]
This is exactly what we are all saying - the pitch correction is making Brian sound much worse than he would without it. On sustained notes, you can hear his voice "snapping" out of the note momentarily, digitally stepping down to another note very, very quickly and back up again, with none of the gradient/portamento effect that the human voice naturally has. Try using one of the aforementioned iPhone/Android apps and you will see what we are hearing in these videos.
[/quote]

Don't you think that would have all come out in rehearsal so if they had the idea in the first place they would have binned it

[ontor pertawst]

We Kid...
   Because We Love.
        Michael Edward Love.

Do you think if we complain a whole bunch they'll stop using it?

By say, the show I go see, maybe?

WHINE

[desmondo]

You know, Mike sounds a bit processed on a few tracks of the Texas show too.

(ducks)

What ?? Processed in the face and lips???

(Ducks even further)

Is Al plugged in??

(Whoops)

[ontor pertawst]

Darian is actually controlling a keyboard that makes Al Jardine move around like a real boy.

[Emdeeh]

For a point of comparison -- if pitch correction is being used on this tour, can you experts hear it being used on any recent BW solo tours?

[desmondo]

Darian is actually controlling a keyboard that makes Al Jardine move around like a real boy.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[anazgnos]

For a point of comparison -- if pitch correction is being used on this tour, can you experts hear it being used on any recent BW solo tours?

The consensus seems to be that it is a brand new thing as of this tour.  People talk about digital pitch correction on the recent Brian albums a lot; I've never seen anybody suggest he was using it onstage.

[absinthe_boy]

There is some moderate use of pitch correction on every one of Brian's studio albums from BWPS onwards. But it's here and there, where perhaps he didn't nail one or two notes in a verse and they were corrected in post....or where he couldn't hang onto a note that he was required to sing for a long time. It is a shame, but I can accept that Brian probably isn't going to record take after take for hours on end. The exception is the Gershwin record, for which Brian did a lot of rehearsals and takes. There's still some processing in there.

Vocal processing is one thing, adding reverb or whatnot doesn't take away from the ability of the singer to hold a note or to give his/her singing emotion and heart.

To be honest, I am utterly heartbroken to hear autotune or any other pitch correction on a Beach Boys concert and especially with Brian.

[Paulos]

I read that Mike Love has been a robot since 1969 and that he wore that big white robe to conceal his metal exo-skeleton.
He wears those rings on his fingers because they are solar power panels that recharge him.

Mike uses those same rings to autotune, pitch correct and then pitch uncorrect Brian's vocals on the 50th Anniversary tour.

[send me a picture and i'll tell you]

For a point of comparison -- if pitch correction is being used on this tour, can you experts hear it being used on any recent BW solo tours?

Nah.  I've never heard any processing, even once, in any of the BW solo shows, and I've been to shows just about every year since '99, and I've watched dozens if not hundreds of Youtube videos from his shows.  That's what makes it all the more egregious now. Only on recordings subject to post-production (PS Live dvd, etc.).

The crux of many people's arguments against there being the possibility of Autotune seems to be, "Well, why would they use it if it makes him sound worse?" This decision may have been made by some tone-deaf corporate bigwig who was advised that Brian's pitch is a problem, and who heard that it's the latest trendy thing. There ARE idiots out there. The notion that people in control SHOULD know better doesn't automatically mean that they do. Maybe George W. Bush is running the soundboard.


Or it may be Brian's idea, and he doesn't know how bad it sounds, or they have a dumbass managing the settings on the fly. Who knows. Stupid and really obvious things happen all the time, and just because it's obviously bad that it seems unseemly doesn't mean it's not happening.  Sometimes people do big, bad stupid things that everyone can see...and there's always someone who will say, "That's not happening, because no one would be dumb enough to do that."

And yeah, I was wondering if it was being used a bit more judiciously on Mike.  Compare the audio on the Knebworth DVD to the unprocessed audio, and that's what a pitch-corrected Mike sounds like.  Maybe this is Mike's way of getting back at Brian after that...

[b00ts]

For a point of comparison -- if pitch correction is being used on this tour, can you experts hear it being used on any recent BW solo tours?

Nah.  I've never heard any processing, even once, in any of the BW solo shows, and I've been to shows just about every year since '99, and I've watched dozens if not hundreds of Youtube videos from his shows.  That's what makes it all the more egregious now. Only on recordings subject to post-production (PS Live dvd, etc.).

The crux of many people's arguments against there being the possibility of Autotune seems to be, "Well, why would they use it if it makes him sound worse?" This decision may have been made by some tone-deaf corporate bigwig who was advised that Brian's pitch is a problem, and who heard that it's the latest trendy thing. There ARE idiots out there. The notion that people in control SHOULD know better doesn't automatically mean that they do. Maybe George W. Bush is running the soundboard.


Or it may be Brian's idea, and he doesn't know how bad it sounds, or they have a dumbass managing the settings on the fly. Who knows. Stupid and really obvious things happen all the time, and just because it's obviously bad that it seems unseemly doesn't mean it's not happening.  Sometimes people do big, bad stupid things that everyone can see...and there's always someone who will say, "That's not happening, because no one would be dumb enough to do that."

And yeah, I was wondering if it was being used a bit more judiciously on Mike.  Compare the audio on the Knebworth DVD to the unprocessed audio, and that's what a pitch-corrected Mike sounds like.  Maybe this is Mike's way of getting back at Brian after that...

Also, pitch-corrected Mike can be heard on Do It Again 2011, at least on the original leaked promo (I haven't heard the CD version yet).

[Wirestone]

There is some moderate use of pitch correction on every one of Brian's studio albums from BWPS onwards.

It's also on BW88 (One for the Boys used a Fairlight to massage BW's vocals) and Imagination (everywhere).

It's been claimed that it's on GIOMH, although I can't really hear it there.

So that leaves OCA and IJWMFTT as the only non pitch-corrected items in the BW solo oeuvre.

[Aegir]

So that leaves OCA and IJWMFTT as the only non pitch-corrected items in the BW solo oeuvre.

and those are my least favorite Brian albums vocally!

[Zach95]

You know, they've had two days off, and probably a chance to re-evaluate these first performances. Maybe we'll see something change after this, one could only hope.

[Heysaboda]

You know, Mike sounds a bit processed on a few tracks of the Texas show too.

(ducks)

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

When all you have is nail clippers, everything looks like a hangnail.

(quacks)

[Autotune]

For Christ's sake, Bill, he's singing flat notes like crazy. Can't you hear those? Those are plain bum notes; they are not pitch-corrected.

Please link a Youtube video, with the precise time at which you hear a flat note which is not a half-step (or whole-step) off, and the word he's singing when you hear this, and I'll get my guitar tuner ready,
[/quote]

For instance, the video you linked, when he sings "how come you ARE".

BTW, I was at the JazzFest show. This was right after the autotune discussion got going. For that reason, I listened very intently at the venue trying to spot said effect, and did not detect anything similar to the wobbling and funny sounds that emerged in the videos. I mean that I did not detect anything funny in any of the songs he sang. Of course his voice was processed, like everybody else's. But not pitch-corrected. Perhaps once everybody on this board gets to see the BBs live, this discussion will end.