The Smiley Smile Message Board

Brian's solo career has seen its share of highs and lows, but I for one will always listen to what the man puts out. I'm not a big fan of No Pier Pressure (although it does have a few gems, like "I'm Feeling Sad" and "This Beautiful Day.")

It feels like perhaps Brian is ready for another explosion of creativity like the one he experienced after BWPS that led to That Lucky Old Sun, which is probably my favourite Brian solo album... Reimagines Gershwin is brilliant too.

I adored the production on Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin; his voice is the best it's sounded in his solo career, and there are none of the adult contemporary arrangements we've seen from Joe Thomas. Beautiful, beautiful record. Imagine an album of that quality, with TLOS-level material, featuring Al Jardine and Blondie et. Al!  :3d

With all that said, is there any chatter about a new BW album? I know we are about to get a new track in "Run James Run" - will we be getting Pleasure Island/Rock and Roll album some time before 2020? Is Brian still working with a Joe Thomas, aside from the new track?

He has been talking about that rock 'n' roll album again.. Maybe the recent passing of Chuck Berry (and others) has given him new drive or inspiration?

In an interview he gave to Helsingin Sanomat (Finnish newspaper) he said he hasn't written anything in three years, and he nowadays plays piano only for his own enjoyment. Doesn't sound too promising, but hey, who knows.

I think Brian's ability to compose is directly connected to his time on the road. In 2006, when he wrote most of TLOS, he only played 11 dates. In 2010 and 2011, when he was assembling material for the Beach Boys reunion, he played 8 and 38 dates respectively. In 2013 and 2014, when he was working on NPP, he played 28 and 8 shows respectively.

In 2015, he played 45 shows (and promoted both NPP and the movie), in 2016 he played 96 shows, and this year he's doing 83. If we're hoping for original material, he'll need to take a year or two away. But my guess is this phase of touring is probably pretty lucrative, and he's looking to bank as much as possibly while he's still physically able. That's what Leonard Cohen did.

BW is always writing! :hat

Joe Thomas wasn't that involved with NPP past a certain point...I doubt he'd be involved much if at all on any new sessions. 

As long as it contains him doing a piano and vocal cover of "Take Me To Church" I'll be happy.   ;D

I just really hope he ditches Joe Thomas, and goes back to the sound he got with Gershwin and That Lucky Old Sun. Scott Bennett undeniably brought out some real magic in Brian (plus that material is IMO by far the most tastefully and best-produced of Brian's solo career) and I hope Brian can find another collaborator who could approach that work.

Is there anyone who is actually specifically a *fan* of Joe Thomas' production work with Brian? I don't mean being a fan of some of those songs, but the production work as a whole, specifically. Someone who actually likes and prefers the robo-sounding vocals and super slick AC type of sound? And by anybody, I mean anybody who's a big fan of Brian's material and is also familiar with the other solo albums which don't have these unfortunate production touches?

I suppose maybe there are some general, less discriminating casual music fans who might feel that sound more closely aligns to some other modern artists' production sound, and might prefer it just because it's simply more familiar to them. Other than that possibility, I cannot honestly see anyone else preferring that production sound to Gershwin and TLOS. 

I really doubt Joe Thomas will be involved in a rock and roll covers album. He was involved with the C50 because Joe had material for a possible Beach Boys reunion from '98...and it was probably so much more convenient for Brian to go with Thomas for NPP as he had more past material to use (as opposed to writing all new material). Brian needed good material right then and there for a solo follow up to the C50, as well as an album that would come out around the time of Love and Mercy. Thomas' involvement was more out of a huge convenience than anything.

I tend to agree. I honestly hope that fans voicing their displeasure over the production, and there are many of us who feel this way, might possibly influence the powers that be to rethink any idea of working with him again.  Brian found an amazing production sound in the later part of the last decade… He can find it again, I'm sure.

I can't say I'm a fan of Joe's production and I'd say that I don't feel his presence on NPP like, say, how his production feels over-domineering on Imagination. But I am a fan of his working with Brian...

I'm a huge fan of BWRG and the Disney album, but you can tell there isn't much experimenting going on. On both those albums there is a 'Caroline No' harpsichord song, there are 'Help Me Rhonda' like songs on each, I think a WIBN intro mirror is on both as well. I'm not complaining at all about those albums, but with NPP Joe helped bring out new ideas in Brian, and helped Brian not be afraid to put those ideas on a record (where I think Brian may have felt safer in the Disney albums by not fucking with the Pet Sounds formula).

With NPP we got EDM, a friggin great country/surf hybrid, a modern day bossa nova (not just a mirror of BDN either) duet with Deschanel that Brian considers his favorite from the album. There was so much experimenting outside the normal bounds that it was actually a nice whiff of fresh air after his previous two albums.

So no, I'm not a fan of his production but I'm a fan of his ability to push the bounds of what Brian thinks he's capable of. I think that's why I was so annoyed by the teenage angst irritation that NPP seemed to rouse from a few posters. Brian stepped out and did something totally different and he did it very professionally. I mean, it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea but it didn't deserve a lot of the statements that were made about it.

Being a fan of Imagination, I feel that JT somehow brought out the best vocals that Brian has had in his solo career. The only exception to that would be the Disney album in which Brian is singing even better than Imagination. BWRG has it's great moments indeed and the more I listen the more I appreciate it. I'll go with anyone, including JT, if they can produce whatever magic they use to extract the best BW vocals that  know he's capable of doing.

I have to agree OSD. I have always thought "Imagination" unfairly maligned.  Some great tracks and outstanding vocals everywhere.

That said, I am a big fan of Brian doing "Proud Mary" and I'd love an EP containing the different versions he has recorded. I am especially fond of his Love You style bass synth version.

As a fairly new fan I am moved to make a comment and observation. I am a 22 year old college student who happens to love NPP & C50. I still to this day do not get the negativity over these albums. The songs are amazing and original TLOS  is an album based on a song Brian didn't write. The Gershwin album includes no songs that Brian wrote.

I seems to me that many of you are saying that any of the good songs on NPP & C50 must be Brian, and the bad songs or bad recording techniques must be Thomas. How about Whatever Happened, what can anyone possibly not like about that gem?  I read Brian's book and it sounds to me that he actually likes the guy. Why can't we just leave it at that.

Realistically, the production credits on NPP should read along these lines --

Original sessions produced by Brian Wilson and Joe Thomas
Except: "Somewhere Quiet" and "One Kind of Love" produced by Brian Wilson and Scott Bennett
"Runaway Dancer" additional production by Sebu Simonian
"Our Special Love" additional production by Peter Hollens
Overdubs produced by Brian Wilson, Wesley Seidman and Don Was

Track arrangements by Brian Wilson
Orchestral arrangements by Paul Von Mertens

Reading between the lines in some of Don's interviews, it seems like Brian used him to run interference with Joe as the album progressed. And toward the end of the process, it was just Brian and Wesley working on the tracks.

Sounds like a plausible scenario. Maybe interference wasn't what was provided, maybe Thomas was busy. He is  in Nashville a bunch. Mike Love says he hates flying in his book. Maybe he didn't want to come to LA . I just listened to the tracks and the production sounds pretty consistent to me. If Brian is in fact auto tuned  then whoever is doing it did it to the two Scott Bennet Productions also.Or maybe these days they just ship Thomas  the tracks so he can auto tune them once they record them perfectly! ( just kidding of course)

I don't know -- I think Brian actually sounds quite a bit different on "One Kind of Love" than the rest of the record. It's a clearer, drier vocal sound that was all over TLOS.

Bingo. And that was made pretty clear in the interview Wes did with Mix magazine that I posted here when it was published.

I do think that NPP is also very much like BW 88 in the sense that they were both albums that took a long time to make -- a couple of years at least -- and incorporated bits from multiple projects. BW 88 included a track from the Usher sessions, some Paley collaborations, and then random guest appearances. NPP had the Bennett material, instrumentals that seemed to hark from the Beck project and guest appearances. But in the earlier album, they at least made some hard choices about what material to include. NPP is a 16-track album in its fullest form, and that's simply a lot to digest. If you made it an 11-track album and excised the more peculiar tracks --

This Beautiful Day
Whatever Happened
Guess You Had to Be There
I'm Feeling Sad
The Right Time
Somewhere Quiet
One Kind of Love
Tell Me Why
Sail Away
Saturday Night
The Last Song

-- You would have a much more coherent experience. It would have been reviewed better, certainly. But from a fan's perspective, you'd also lose a lot of what makes the album so charming.

I'm a fan of Imagination, TWGMTR, and NPP, so I would welcome another JT/BW collaboration.  But....

1.  No guest stars unless they were once a Beach Boy or a member of a BB live entity.  The songs with guests on NPP (IMO) ranged from OK to terrible, and took away any cohesiveness of the album. 

2.  No more remakes of past songs.  Granted, Somewhere Quiet turned out better than I imagined. 

3.  No autotune. 

The fact that NPP incorporated segments from multiple projects also explains an issue that some so-called "fans" took issue with upon release, that being the listing of so many credits given to multiple engineers, etc. There were tracks and segments on there which were used from previous sessions and projects, simple as that...and nothing nefarious or anything of the sort.

Remember that the Gershwin estate allowed Brian access to many unfinished or incomplete Gershwin songs with an eye toward Brian adding to or even completing them, and Brian and Scott did just that with "The Like In I Love You" and "Nothing But Love". So there were two "new" songs on the Gershwin album which Brian had a hand in writing, with the blessing of the Gershwin estate.

The Gershwin album stands as one of the finest albums Brian ever made, IMO...well worth a re-listen and reevaluation every so often as a reminder.

"No autotune" is likely impossible, given that Brian 1.) has used pitch correction/vocal processing on his solo albums since 1988 and 2.) approves of it as a convenience. The issue is just how audible the effects are. I'd be okay with a "One Kind of Love" vocal sound.

+1

Frankly, I don't think the autotune is nearly as fan as some fans, so I wouldn't be crestfallen if they used it again.  But, please no more guest stars or BB remakes. 

Does that include the autotune on DIA '17?

The only time autotune or vocal processing usage is acceptable, IMO, is when it's 99.99% transparent to smooth something out that's already very close to as good as it can possibly be sung. Like the Gershwin album. Some engineer or producer knew what they were doing. They weren't trying to get "cute" and sound "modern" with some intentionally robo-sounding vocals. Why does someone like Al Jardine, who still has MAJOR vocal chops, need to sound metallic and warbled on his vocals on a song like From There to Back Again? Totally unnecessary and silly production choice.

I'll be crestfallen if the vocals aren't produced like they were on TLOS or Gershwin. Organic and real-sounding. I'll take the warts and all if need be, thankyouverymuch.

Very curious to hear Run James Run, I'll tell you that.

I am not saying that I am not fan of the Gershwin project I just get more enthused about Brian recording his own material and I like his work with Joe Thomas. I agree no more remakes, which include Brian's interpretations of Disney tunes also. Been there done that, sounded good.

Question: It seems to me, there are many insiders on these threads. Some seem to have personal recollections.  Engineers that have worked with Brian have articles in Rolling Stone, etc. but have any of you spoken to Joe Thomas or has he ever been interviewed on this site? Seems like one conversation with him could clear up a lot. I would think he would be anxious to right any wrongs about him. Does he even know these threads exists?

I'm starting to believe that that song is just a myth.

I'd argue that Disney is his vocal peak. I've always wondered how they managed to make him sound so young and vibrant on that record - is he blended with someone else? Listen to Baby Mine and tell me that's not his best vocal since Caroline, No. (I know it's all subjective - but that's how I'd say it if we were having a face to face conversation....)

Hope not to get flamed (pun intended), but I'd kind of like to see a Blondie-less Brian/Al album and tour at this point.

I was only including the JT produced albums. 

Personally, I could do without the autotune and the slight overproduction.  But, if the songs are good, they can overcome these issues IMO. 

But, there's really no saving unnecessary remakes (ie. Let Him Run Wild) or too many guess stars (ie. Runaway Dancer). 

Although I agree about enjoying Brian's originals more, I am psyched to hear what he'd offer us with his rock and roll covers album.

As for your question. Joe did an interview after the C50 regarding TWGMTR (http://notes.andrewromano.net/joethomasbeachboys) that is so damn insightful to how they put things together. It's not regarding NPP in any form, but it'll give you a good idea of their process together. As for NPP, Joe's insights on that record can be found here (http://www.southflorida.com/music/sf-brian-wilson-jeff-beck-hollywood-tour-092713-20130924-story.html). Edit: wanted to add that those links probably won't clear up every question, but they are really insightful.

Ray Lawlor is an insider who has posted here plenty before...his posts are really insightful regarding production and the hard work Brian put into the album.

Blondie adds an energy that creates a good highlight for the show (not the only highlight, but one of many). And if Brian is going to go ahead with recording a rock and roll album then keeping Blondie on makes perfect sense - his vocals are still great, he can play a mean guitar (if Brian wants to throw that flavor into one of his songs). I don't think Brian would want to limit his palette when it comes to bringing talent onboard for whatever album he has in store next.

Sure, I do understand where you're coming from. I've seen Brian close to ten times since 2015 and the freshness that Blondie's set/antics brought the first few times are growing tired in my eyes. His current vocals are...an acquired taste for me but I do respect that people enjoy his presence and that he does seem to be a really cool guy. I want to hear Brian sing Sail On Sailor again (he always did a good job and I miss his hand motions). But, again, that's just a personal opinion/preference.

Brian still does the hand motions, at least he did the times I've seen him on the NPP and PS Tours. 

I love Blondie's presence, and guitar playing.  On future tours, I'd like to see his role expanded to other than just Wild Honey, SOS, and whatever other song they're doing at the time.  Maybe Marcella, Hold On Dear Brother, or Leaving This Town. 

Joe did a lot of interviews with an about back around the time of Imagination. He subsequently was sued by Brian and Melinda, and then sued them.

Since returning to the fold with TWGMTR, Joe has done only a couple of interviews that I'm aware of. My impression is that he simply doesn't want to appear to take undue credit (which rubs Brian's folks the wrong way) and would rather do his work and enjoy his life without attendant drama.

That being said, he did give a single extensive interview about five years ago, which can be found here: http://notes.andrewromano.net/joethomasbeachboys

Enjoy!

Edit: And I see someone already posted it.

This is exactly how I feel...I wish he had a slightly bigger role in the performance. I've seen the show a plethora of times too since 2015, each time the crowd goes friggin electric when Blondie enters - I think it'd be a shame if they lost that energy.

Granted, I know absolutely nothing about the business doings on on the Brian Wilson tours, but it seems odd that Blondie would spend three years of his life touring to be onstage for such a small portion of the show. 

I'd be repeating myself and repeating what others have just said too, but I hope Blondie stays with Brian and continues making music with him and the band for the foreseeable future - He does bring a very specific energy to the stage and to the sound when he's on stage, and he always delivers the goods. I think it was one of the best decisions they could have made to have Blondie with Brian and Al, I don't see any drawbacks or negatives whatsoever.

There is a lot of love among the fans for that early 70's incarnation of the group, and for obvious reasons that original lineup and sound can never happen again. But for fans like me who never experienced it in person, I can't think of a closer experience than hearing Brian and band doing Sail On Sailor live on stage with Blondie taking the lead as he did back then, and having Al on guitar and vocals with him. It was also great to see Billy Hinsche on stage with them too, again  it was a great way to experience part of what made that early 70's live sound what it was, in person.

I have also come to love and appreciate the NPP song Sail Away even more since 2015, and a lot of that comes from seeing Brian, Al, and Blondie trading those vocal leads live on stage. That was quite a rush.

I agree. If I had to guess I'd say he's along for the cool ride. He's getting paid well enough to stay on the tour yet he doesn't have the pressure of performing all night long...it probably makes the most sense to him at this point in his life.

In terms of what kind of material Brian decides to release or record next, I keep coming back to the fact that he's a studio guy at heart, that's his wheelhouse and that's where he really likes to be...cutting tracks in the studio. If he decides to cut some cover songs, or get his feet wet doing whatever else comes up that gets him back in a studio recording tracks, so be it. I think whatever direction he decides to go with recording, he'll bring what he brings to the studio, and that's part of the "x factor" that a lot of his fans like me have been trying to decipher for decades. Like trying to figure out how the magician does his/her magic tricks, it's a part of some of us being fans that we enjoy hearing those special Brian Moments on studio tracks, whether they are the entire track itself or a few seconds of sonic bliss that just grab you and pull you in...to the point where you have to hit the rewind button again and again...asking as so many have since the 60's..."how in the hell did he get that sound?!"

I think one of the tragedies of the reactions to NPP album overall is that too many listeners got caught up in the bullshit that surrounded the discussions (and in some cases the bullshitters who were the perpetrators) and a lot of those really unique and very cool musical moments didn't get noticed.

Maybe that's why revisiting and reevaluating albums like NPP or even Gershwin or the Christmas album every so often can lead to some really satisfying listening experiences, if not discovering elements that were missed on earlier listening sessions. There are a lot of those Brian Moments in those grooves.

Because Al will probably never get around to doing another solo album, one of the best things about the NPP format (as far as Al and Blondie go) is that Brian essentially used them as he would have used the BBs. If a given song sounded best in Al's range, he gave the lead to Al. He had Al (and Matt) in there on some backing vocals as well. He even essentially launched the NPP album with what under any other circumstance would have been a de facto Al Jardine solo single.

There was no sense on NPP that they counted out how many songs should have which person on it. If Al was there and it made sense, they had him sing on it.

They could do the same thing with Blondie.

As for those looking for an imminent solo album, Wirestone is correct. The timing and scheduling vis-à-vis his touring suggests he's nowhere near releasing an album.

I'm guessing the rest of this year will be about wrapping up touring and releasing Brian's "Best of" CD.

What will be interesting to see is how much touring they do next year. There are three symphony shows booked (listing Brian and Al; it's unclear if Blondie would be attending) for May of next year.

Could be.  

If Brian continues to tour after PS, I'd love to see a focus on the Sunflower - Holland era of the group.  

I totally agree, GF. There are so many great moments in NPP - sonic moments that are pure Brian Wilson. 'Sail Away' has one in the second part of the first chorus - there is a very low horn in the right speaker that adds such a depth to that chorus...reminds me of those special instrumental moments on Pet Sounds when one sole instrument would subtly add so much to a section...only upon a close listen would you realize why it sounds that way.

So many of these moments were overlooked by so many; it was more important for some to childishly mock the entire fuckin album instead of appreciating what a gift it really is. Really glad to see people are giving it another look years later. I think it'll go down as one of his better solo albums.

Thank you! This was very informative. They seem very comfortable with each other and it explains a lot. Two friends doing what they like to do best and it shows musically. You're also probably right about Thomas, he enjoys his life too much to get into the fray. Still can't figure out why theres is so much negativity from some fans.

I think one of the tragedies of the reactions to NPP album overall is that too many listeners got caught up in the bullshit that surrounded the discussions (and in some cases the bullshitters who were the perpetrators) and a lot of those really unique and very cool musical moments didn't get noticed.

Maybe that's why revisiting and reevaluating albums like NPP or even Gershwin or the Christmas album every so often can lead to some really satisfying listening experiences, if not discovering elements that were missed on earlier listening sessions. There are a lot of those Brian Moments in those grooves.
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I totally agree, GF. There are so many great moments in NPP - sonic moments that are pure Brian Wilson. 'Sail Away' has one in the second part of the first chorus - there is a very low horn in the right speaker that adds such a depth to that chorus...reminds me of those special instrumental moments on Pet Sounds when one sole instrument would subtly add so much to a section...only upon a close listen would you realize why it sounds that way.

So many of these moments were overlooked by so many; it was more important for some to childishly mock the entire fuckin album instead of appreciating what a gift it really is. Really glad to see people are giving it another look years later. I think it'll go down as one of his better solo albums.
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Wow, a disturbance in the force!I couldn't agree more. NPP was very special! There were a few nay sayers who seem to have hijacked the rest of our listening experience. Seems like all that was talked about was auto tune or not , adult contemporary or not etc. Loved NPP! Loved most of C50. Cant wait to hear RJR, The Beck sessions. Anyone Brian wants to work with is ok with me. from Mike Love on! Maybe we can start talking about the brilliance of these last two albums. Ill agree with someone previous "Whatever Happened" is haunting . and disagree with another. On From There To Back Again, Al's voice seems triple tracked , and I like the result.

I like a lot of NPP.  But, I think a more compact album with less guests would've made for a better overall listening experience.  I still listen to a lot of the individual tracks on it, but I rarely listen to it from start to finish anymore. 

To be fair, his C50 live album is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever paid money for...it was the first time I was actually angry at a music purchase, and I've bought some dreadful stuff in my life.

I think Brian himself has said he isn't a big fan of the production on Imagination, also it was said that Thomas thinks Brian is an adult contemorary artist - which really rubs fans the wrong way because most of us think Brian is friggin Mozart, not someone you want to hear in line at the supermarket (which we've probably all heard cuts from Imagination when browsing through the deli section (I know I have)).

I feel the negativity goes too far, and though I've said my share about the C50 live album, I fully believe in what I wrote a page or two back regarding Joe's ability to bring out some phenomenal work in Brian.

You know, this might surprise some people but I honestly don't really have a problem with Joe Thomas. And I'm also not the hugest fan of That Lucky Old Sun either. However, I do want to caveat both of those statements and I will get to that later.

Anyways, first off I gotta say that Brian sounds better (and more commercial) on Imagination, That's Why God Made The Radio and No Pier Pressure than on anything else from his solo career (besides his first album, which I've actually grown to really like vocally). I think his vocals on That Lucky Old Sun are really kinda rough and that the only vocal that really is of any true quality is "Midnight's Another Day." I think perhaps the reason that people really love the album (and don't get me wrong, I really dig it) is that there is a lot more rockin' material on there than most of Brian's other solo work, most of which is kinda ballad driven.

Now what I will say is that I wouldn't lump No Pier Pressure in with Imagination as far as the music. In my opinion, a large hunk of Imagination was really pushed in the late '90s adult contemporary direction, whereas I think that TWGMTR and NPP both seemed more like "Brian Wilson" music to me.

I will say one thing though, of his studio albums, the Disney album is the one BW album that I have never owned and from the sound of things on this board maybe I should pick it up, as you guys are saying there are some top notch vocals. Might be interesting to hear.

I've been meaning to make a thread about TWGMTR and people's thoughts on it years later, it packs such a punch of great music, a real perfect last album for the guys (if in fact they never release another album together).

Definitely pick up the Disney album. 'Baby Mine' and 'Stay Awake' are some of Brian's most heartfelt vocals in his solo career. There are other great songs on the album ('Kiss The Girl' is probably my favorite from the album) but nothing comes close to those two in regards to beauty.

If anyone is still looking to pick up Brian's Disney album, make sure to look into the Amazon-exclusive version. The Amazon-exclusive CD adds one extra track ("A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes"), while Amazon's MP3 download version adds two bonus tracks ("A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes" and "Peace on Earth").

I would love to discuss the merits of TWGMTR as a retrospective. Too many juices flowing back then for many fans. Now that it looks like it will be the last ever BB album It deserves another look. As far as the Live album, I don't think we will ever know what went on from a recording standpoint. Ive read Mikes book and there is a mystery to be solved or not. I was at several of the shows and I just like to listen to remember what I saw. Sad it won't happen again. But I'd love to hear Thomas side of the story.  I  have heard his recordings and Live releases with Tom Petty , and Fleetwood Mac and Dave Matthews. They are very well done. As was The Brian Wilson and Friends Recording on DVD. I can't believe that with C50 he was not dealt a difficult hand to begin with.

Those bonus tracks can both be purchased for download on Amazon.  The CD with the bonus track can be a little pricey. 

I've not read Mike's book, but I heard he talked about autotune devices being installed on microphones (am I remembering correctly?)? I am certain that that's not possible at all...if autotune occurs it is done with a computer near the soundboard. Listen to any performance on YouTube of any C50 concert, especially the Chiba concert - the vocals sound pristine as anything. But yet we got a disaster with the C50 album. Mike sounds like a friggin robot on half of the songs as does half the band on any given song. It really was a shame, I never made it to any C50 concerts so I was hoping for a great sounding record to capture that magic.

Id rather just wait to discuss TWGMTR ! Sounds like more fun.

There was something attached to Brian's mic at the start of the tour. It was gone within a dozen shows or so.

Thanks Wirestone. I will redact what I said above about it.

As for JT hate, a lot of it originated in the fact that Imagination was Brian's first full studio solo album in 10 years. "Your Imagination" was a great leadoff single, but then the rest of the album hit -- and it was what it was. Folks were really pining after the Paley sessions, too, which were booted at around the same time. The contrast between the batches of material was huge, and given the ongoing art vs. commerce narrative around BW, it was easy to slot Joe into the "Mike Love" role.

Obviously things are more complicated than that, and Joe has ended up playing a benign-to-positive role in the story, but I suspect that's where it started.

Actually, now that I read your post more closely, I see you were talking about where the tuning would be done. I have no idea if the device was on Brian's physical mic or not.

What is true is that the early shows featured some appalling effects on Brian's vocals. At a certain point, after outrage surfaced online, the effects were gone.

I think they were there during the Hollywood Bowl show.

I was basing my statements on something I heard that was in Mike's book and can't really remember well...so I'm glad you responded. Either way it's crazy to me that such effects would be used live for a band who made their fame mostly because of their natural voices.

All the more reason why bad vocal studio production (not talking about vocal performances, but bad work by somebody on the studio and/or live payroll) should be called out. We can sometimes make a positive difference! I say that sincerely and with only the best of intentions.

I think good music has a way of coming into people's lives when the time is right, I mean...look what happened with Pet Sounds. Look what may be happening right now with various tracks that got the spotlight on the new Sunshine Tomorrow set. This music was overlooked or even forgotten about for decades in some cases, but there comes that time where it does get that reevaluation and renewed interest and people will listen in a different way. Often that different way is within a new context and with a more open mind.

I think NPP has some musical moments that are absolutely as good as anything Brian has done. I wrote up a long review when it came out, and tried to pinpoint some of those, but among them are the way those guitars intertwine and interact during sections of "The Right Time". To me it was reminiscent of tracks from Pet Sounds like IJWMFTT where Brian's multiple guitar arrangements created this swirl of arpeggios and harmonies that was like a guitar choir, just this cloud of sound that to me is one of those Brian Moments on record that I mentioned earlier.

Once some of the childish and/or foolish kicks were had by those who decided to make a joke out of trashing the music, all of that gets forgotten along with all the other unfortunate crap that went down and some people will get down to listening to the music with that fresh perspective. All the clowns officially departed the Volkswagen Beetle, they did their little routines, and now the curtain can be opened for the real show, which of course is the music.

The good music lasts, and continues to get rediscovered by future generations. Look how many people in 2017 are digging what was a pretty obscure album cut like Aren't You Glad, 50 years after the fact? The good stuff lasts, the jokers do not.

Just a side note and another repeat of what I've been saying for 2 years: NPP is a great sounding record. Sonically, the mix is just fantastic. There are many layers of instruments and tracks but each seems to have enough space as to not get lost or even seem overloaded. Credit to all involved in the sound of the record.

And I also add on that note, TWGMTR has aged very well after 5 years. Every time I put it on to listen, it sounds better each time. It is also a very well done and extremely well mixed album that does not seem to get the attention it deserves on those aspects.

Mike's book mentions autotune devices being "attached....to the mics" in his book, and I think most everyone who is familiar with how that works and would work has weighed in that autotune is typically done back at the board, or somewhere in line, and do not consist of actual physical devices that are attached to microphones.

Mike's book isn't clear on whether Mike's comment was somewhat figurative; I dunno. It certainly comes across to me as if he actually claims he was seeing a device physically attached to the mics. But I think in his book he was less concerned with describing the logistics of the technology and more concerned that the reader was made aware that *MELINDA!!!!* was allegedly the one responsible.

As for its use on the C50 tour, recordings make it very clear which shows feature the effect on Brian's vocal, and the point at which it clearly was no longer in use. I think it went away very early in the tour, within the first week or so, give or take.

I'm in, lets do it.  I loved TWGMTR then and I still do.  Most of the album holds up well after 5 years.  If you take the first 3 tracks and the last 4 as documenting the BB's final studio output, they finished quite strong. Not a bad turn of events considering some of the 90's material.

Hollywood Bowl was early June; the autotune or autotune-type effect was gone in early May at the latest.

I saw the Berkeley show on June 1st, the night before the Hollywood Bowl show, and didn't hear any such effects.

I don't think Brian is any hurry to do another album. The focus these days is clearly on touring - that's where the money is. And as much as i'd love for him to focus more on songs from the Wild Honey era, I think they will stay with the formula of greatest hits plus Pet Sounds or Smile. Yeah, I know they are saying this year is the final performances of PS. Right.  ::) ::)

They are of course getting more active bookings doing the PS tour. But I would still tend to doubt we'll get another full year of PS shows. Meanwhile, Brian has said he isn't into doing the verbose songs like "Busy Doin' Nothin'" or "Surf's Up", so a "Smile" tour would seem unlikely.

I think 2018 will possibly only see some select live dates (three are booked in May with a symphony right now), and those shows will probably not be PS shows.

I'm as sympathetic to Brian and his show as can be, but it seems pretty clear Brian is getting pretty bored singing the full PS album every night. His team should, if they want to do another tour next year, move on from PS.

Our Prayer / H&V has for the most part been out of the setlist for awhile too.  Though, in Brian's defense, H&V is not an easy song to sing.  So, GV is the only Smile era song in the setlist. 

H&V would be perfect to hand over to Al. Easy solution there.

I think when/if they continue touring and doing non-PS shows, the setlist will become a bit more dynamic and diverse, because they'll all of a sudden have 13-ish song slots to play with again, minus the three or four PS songs they would keep in a non-PS setlist.

True, but I'm thinking Brian just might not want it in the set anymore. 

After three years of heavy touring, I'd hope the schedule for 2018 would be a little lighter. 

I hope this too. I mean, if Brian is happy then he should tour to his heart's content. But I really wish he would relax for a bit and also get in the studio and record some. A concert creates unforgettable memories, but albums certainly have their place too. I can see Brian recording a rock and roll covers album and going out and touring a few of those songs alongside the usual Beach Boy hits...it would all around be something special.

I could see that working.  Especially since Brian seems to prefer the more upbeat rock and roll based numbers in concert.  Some of those early BB songs would fit nicely alongside some rock and roll standards.

I'm a regular concert-goer, so I understand the magic and memories the experience can create, but:

Those memories are for a select few, and even with recordings that are eventually released, they cannot effectively transfer those memories or experiences on the majority of fans who weren't present, because there's so much visceral context missing. (While I find live releases interesting to a degree, I don't care for them on the whole.)

If Brian quit touring today I wouldn't shed a tear, as long as it meant more studio output from him. It might sound brash, but clock's a' ticking. Why not take a little time to create something timeless for the masses?

Realistically? No one makes money from record sales anymore. Many thousands of people are willing to pay the equivalent of a couple of MIC boxed sets to see BW live. They're not willing to spend a tiny fraction of that on original music.

Pardon if this is a weird question, but does Brian even need the money? He has to be making a ton from royalties alone, right? It could be a question of his band though, I'm not sure how they'd fair if they weren't on the road. Just thinking out loud.

Regardless, I totally agree with you BonnevilleMariner. I want to see more studio albums myself.

I don't know if Brian needs the money, but he probably wants to make sure his family and kids are set for as long as possible. And I think he's also reached the point where touring gives his life some order. Not that he enjoys it or loves it all the time, but it's a very structured way to live.

I mean, listen, I think he's been over toured for most of this decade. I'd love to hear a half dozen more studio albums. But BW can be as practical as the next guy -- I don't think he misses the fact that audiences keep clamoring for Pet Sounds.

So it's all about the money? Not Brian's muse? Not creating? In the end, dude's just like Mike? Gotta make that money.

I don't buy it. Maybe Brian has overcome his aversion/fear of touring. Somehow, contrary to pretty much everything we know and read about the man, he's found happiness in touring. I guess that's fine. I'm happy for him, and it's awesome for the fraction of his overall current and future fandom that is able to see him perform. But it kinda sucks for the rest of us. I'd take one. Just ONE-- even mediocre-- studio album over three great tours.  My kids won't give a rat's butt about some concert in 2017, just as this uber-fan couldn't care less about any Beach Boys tour over the past 55 years.

All solid points. And I've kinda felt like the structure part is the main reason he's been touring so much this last decade. There seems to be a consistent outlook from bands who come back from tours: their whole life feels shattered and eerily quiet when they get off tour. They go from nightly applause, new sights to see, different foods to eat, etc, to complete silence of being back home...general consensus seems to be that it drives you crazy.  

This is the sad truth. When news of a new Brian album happens, we get all excited, all do our pre-orders for the new music, talk about it for a few weeks...then forget about it. The general public doesn't care about new music from any of the Boys - they want those nostalgia soaked live shows. They want the opportunity to say "I saw Brian Wilson! Live!"

For me, I just love being in Brian's presence.  He could do a tour based on the Fetty Wap songbook and I'd be happy.

That said...I want a new studio album, like, yesterday.

More originals with guest artists, more Gershwin or finally the rock and roll album - I don't care. As long as there is more Brian Wilson in the world. Bring it on.

From Blondie Chaplin's facebook 12 minutes ago...
"Some cool things are brewing...Blondie Chaplin plans to hit the studio with Brian Wilson and Waddy Wachtel very soon. Stay tuned!"

Interesting... wonder if it is Blondie guesting on Brian’s record, or the other way around...

The cynic in me says it’s the other way around. And by cynic, I’m more than stoked to hear a new song by Blondie, but honestly I’d rather this be the start of a BW album.

But I think it more likely that Waddy Wachtel would be working with Blondie rather than Brian. But I hope someone can prove that wrong.

I can't say that I agree with the sentiment of putting out an album just for the sake of putting out an album. 

I'd rather wait for a quality product with the only guest stars having The Beach Boys on their resumes, and preferably original material.  Perhaps including the complete Life Suite. 

Though I agree I’d rather have Beach Boys as guest artists than anyone else, I think ‘Guess You Had To Be There’ is one of Brian’s better solo songs of his whole career. So if he has guests appear on an upcoming album my only hope is that the quality is as good as GYHTBT.

It does make me wonder, if Brian were ever to complete that life suite - would he re-record the original TWGMTR tracks as covers, and then add the rest of the songs with his own band and Al?

I don't get the attraction to GYHTBT.   If not for Runaway Dancer, that would be my pick for worst NPP track.  I do like Saturday Night and Half Moon Bay though. 

Personally, if Brian were to complete the Life Suite, I'd prefer he just re-record it with his band and Al, just for consistency sake. 

Everyone’s got different tastes. It’s one of the happiest most rollicking songs Brian has done in his solo career, IMO (probably besides Good Kind Of Love). To me it sounds completely organic and lively...no doubt in part to the positive writing experience Musgraves had with Brian for this song.

I guess so.  I like some happy songs, and I like country music a little more with each passing year.   

For a happy sounding Brian song, I much prefer Don't Worry, which didn't make the "proper" album cut.

That’s one song I would’ve loved to have been in the studio for during recording. And also would’ve loved to have heard the genesis of this song. I didn’t like it much first time hearing it, Woodstock (Niko) once explained to me the dynamics of the song and it opened my eyes to how cool it actually is.

Speaking of "genesis," Don't Worry reminds me a lot of 1980s Phil Collins. 

It sounds like early 70s Frankie Valli/Four Seasons to me.

Yeah it sounds like a four seasons outtake (in a good way) since BW didn’t follow that trend in 1970s...

The BB song that most reminds me of the Four Seasons is "The Night Was So Young".

"Is somebody going to tell me why she has to hi-i-ide" has a very Seasons-ish feel to it...

I could see that a little, but I think Joe Thomas's work on the song makes it sounds like an ultra slick PC radio hit. 

Brian, Blondie and Waddy are working on "Werewolves of Hawthorne"! :lol

Start of C50 + Blondie and Ricky????

Ok terrible joke I know (even though I want it SO badly  :'()

I'll see myself out.

Waddy Wachtel was on I just Wasn't Made for  These Times soundtrack, so there is some (brief) history there.

Waddy also played on the Paley sessions with Brian, and Blondie was in The Waddy Wachtel Band.

That's right...I had forgotten

Is Brian finally getting to that real rock and roll record he's been talking about since working with Jeff Beck?

You are right!  I had never thought about that before.  With that said, even though I can hear the similarity I can't put my finger on it.  Are there any songs that come to mind?

EoL

i think you need to tack on a couple of decades to cover how long he’s been saying he wants his next record to be the RnR record.

Gettin Hungry,

At this point, I think I'd rather get an album with a complete "Life Suite."  Even though Brian and his band can tear through some early BBs classics in concert, I think the MOR/AC stuff seems to be a little more in his wheelhouse when it comes to the studio. 

I don’t think his voice is suited to rock anymore. His enunciation especially on anything wordy or uptempo just st doesn’t sound right to me. (Of course if he filed out those parts to Darian, Matt, Al, et al, that could work really well. But I know many here don’t like that anyway.) He’s better suited as a singer to ballads / easy listening, I’d say.

Captain,

I agree 100%, and his vocals on the slower songs on TWGMTR / NPP were quite good.   I'm OK with AC Brian. 

Me too. The full suite would be great to hear. It just seemed like Waddy has the guitar chops and session experience to be a better fit than working with Beck. At any rate, curious to hear what -- if anything -- comes from these sessions Blondie teased.

Yeah, me too.   Interesting indeed.  Yeah, I like some Jeff Beck but I don't think his style works with Brian Wilson. 

keep in mind that Blondie has hinted back in the fall that he was going to release a new CD this year, and that it would be including some tracks that were originally supposed to be on his unreleased "Fragile Thread" from around 2000. Could be just a sweetening session for that so let us not get too excited about Brian's involvement. ???

Good point

Life Suite or R&R record? I'd love either one. :)

Same, I honestly don’t care either way. I think every BW solo record has a bit of charm and each one has at least a few gems/moments that stand out. And that’s all I’d want whether it be from a life suite, rock n roll album, or even just some piano demos. Or if Brian wants to chillax and not visit the studio again that’s cool too.

While I won't quite say I don't care either way, I do want to be clear that I'd be happy to have something new regardless of its niche. I have found something I like in every release so far (although the live albums I could do without), and I'm sure I'd find something to like in any new studio release. I don't want anyone to conflate my wish list with some sort of disapproval.

Yes, of course. But I'd be a bit unhappy if his last released song were "The Last Song". It's so sad.

Wouldn't his last released song be "Run James Run"?

If that's his final song, while not great, at least it's better than The Last Song. 

Was that Del Rey version ever recorded? I would love to hear how different that version sounds if it exists.

Does anyone know about the genesis of Run James Run? I was under the impression it was more of an Al Jardine song for some reason. RJR has grown on me since I first heard it. I feel like Brian’s music would benefit so much from mono mixing instead of stereo though - this song being a great example of that.

Al definitely talked about it in a print interview (Rolling Stone?) during some of the sessions that eventually became NPP--I think maybe as far back as when it was still a Beck collaboration. And then I think he referenced it again in a podcast shortly before NPP came out, when he was saying he wasn't sure what was on the album.

It definitely sounds like he could have sung it. I wish he at least partly had. I think his voice suits it.

I thought that Lana Del Rey never came into the studio to record her version due to a scheduling conflict.  I'd be interested to hear her version only as a curiosity.  I'm not really a fan of her music, and I think NPP was already pretty crowded.  

Yeah it would’ve suited him really well. Thanks for the info!

@KDS, yeah, any more guest artists and it would feel much less like a BW album. But as a bonus track or something, would’ve been great to hear.

Probably better for another topic, but I think NPP could've been a great 11-12 song album proper.   Leave the rest for bonus tracks, including a Del Ray Last Song if it actually exists. 

Regarding Lana Del Rey, there were conflicting reports as to whether she was planned but never recorded, or did some recording, or finished the recording.

According the this article: ( https://pitchfork.com/news/58275-frank-ocean-and-lana-del-rey-left-off-brian-wilson-album-due-to-scheduling/ ) she did some recording work on the song but wasn't able to come back in to finish.

Regarding "Run James Run", I'm pretty sure that had to have previously been an Al lead vocal. I believe reports from a couple years back indicated as much, and you can hear Al's vocals weaving in and out of the finished "Brian" version of the song on the "Playback" album.

Oh, of course! I had been thinking only in terms of albums. And RJR may be not great, but I like it a lot, and is quite a cheerful song!
Thanks for the reminder. :)

I honestly wouldn't mind hearing Lana Del Rey's unfinished parts with Brian/Al's voices filling in the rest.

This was just posted via Blondie's facebook account:

Blondie has been in the studio recently, cutting new tracks with Brian Wilson.

Also, drummer for hire Kenny Aronoff stated that he had some studio time booked working for Brian Wilson very recently.  Fingers crossed.  Kenny did some work on No Pier Pressure as well.  I'd way rather have a new record than Brian sluggishly half singing through another Pet Sounds tour.  I love going to see Brian Wilson live but after seeing 3 shows on the last PS tour it just seems Brian is least interested when singing the PS album and comes to life more during the other non PS songs.  At any rate the thought of new recordings from Brian (and hopefully Al and Blondie) is very exciting.

I find it interesting as we see names like Waddy Wachtel and Kenny Aronoff that, for the third consecutive album (meaning the Beach Boys TWGMTR and Brian's NPP) we're seeing what might be substantial work by people outside of Brian's core band, at least instrumentally. Granted, it might be that these guys are only on one song or something, but we're not hearing anything from BW band members (other than Blondie, who hasn't exactly been a core member anyway), are we?

I'm curious to see what eventually comes out.

I agree Captain.  These names make the cynical part of me think that maybe Joe is coordinating the sessions again.  Brian's band are incredibly talented musicians and more than capable of laying down great bed tracks, but on the other hand, sometimes major labels often feel more confident in finished tracks with grizzled studio rat vets like Aronoff, Wachtel, Don Was, Jim Keltner, Mark Isham, Dean Parks, Michael Rhodes, Eddie Bayers etc as the instrumental foundation.  Many believe that it makes the recordings easier to sell.  Whether or not that is true is debatable.  But regardless if Brian uses his incredible band or these studio vets, there is no doubt that Brian gets great players on his recordings.

That raises some interesting questions or points I hadn't been thinking about.

1. Does Brian have a record contract right now? Is there a label? Or is he just recording with the idea of figuring it out once there's something to sell?
2. I'm not concerned about any Joe Thomas involvement, honestly. I liked the past two studio recordings quite a bit.
3. No question that Brian's band comprises fabulous and more-than-competent musicians, but I have no qualms with these studio pros, either.
4. I can't imagine the players having any effect on record-buyers for BW. Those who know the names in either case would almost definitely buy in either case; some who know BW but dont' have a clue wouldn't care; and those who won't buy are unlikely to buy regardless (unless there's some fanatic Kenny Aronoff or Waddy Wachtel fans out there...).

I want an album. I want it to include new songs, not the eternally promised rock 'n' roll album (though if that's what it is, that's what it will be, and I'll buy it). I want background--and probably lead--vocals by people other than Brian when appropriate.

After that, I'm easy.

Great ! Cannot wait for a new BW album. I miss his voice and style. Session players are fine.

As far as drummers go, I think Mike D’amico lives in Florida, so it makes sense to me to get someone local if you are cutting tracks every so often, and not fly someone in from the other side of the country.

Makes sense, for sure. But then of course there are other affiliated possibilities: Todd Sucherman, Jim Hines, etc. D'Amico only (relatively) recently became the "Brian Wilson Band" drummer.

I doubt it will happen but i would love if the rest of the “life suite” was on it

Yes. What he said. Or at least another track or two.

Hearing of Joe Thomas's possible involvement on a new BW album project makes me chuckle.  I harken back 18 months to seeing Mike Love in Seattle during his book tour.  He answered a question regarding Joe Thomas which I will never forget.   "He's a pathological liar"    Whew........ 

For a guy who seems to be famous for being litigious, it's surprising he would make such a potentially slanderous statement.

Also telling is that, while Mike goes into C50 in some detail in his book, he certainly doesn't (as far as I can recall) expand on what might make him feel Joe Thomas was a "pathological liar", which could well be due to potential libel issues.

HJ....The question asked Mike was about how the C50 tour got started from it's infancy.  Mike said there were a lot of meetings and was told  that he also could bring in material for the album.  I'm guessing his touring delayed his start and by the time he came on board for his initial sessions, it was apparent to him that Joe Thomas had basically decided on the majority of the C50 tracks.  Mike said he had initially met Joe back during the Stars and Stripes time period in the 90's.
Then came his phrase but this is when he said he had been lied to and JT was a pathological liar.  Guessing this made it easy for him to walk out on the reunion  when the tiff happened with Melinda during a recording session.....over auto tone wasn't it ??

  If there was a tiff over auto tune in the studio I am  wondering why Mike  isn't now  blaming Thomas  for  slathering auto tune over his new album too! Mike must be certain that it was Thomas who used his pathological skills as a liar to convince whomever produced Mikes new album to let him sneak in and process the vocals without Mike knowing. The same way he  did it on TWGMTR, and he also must have snuck in to the venues that The Beach Boys were playing on the C 50 tour,  and then under orders from Melinda placed  auto tune devices in to the live sound rack! In other interviews, I've read where  Mike claimed that Thomas wasn't around enough, because he doesn't like to fly. So maybe Love should get his story strait. Any good pathological liar knows that! 

"Pathological liar" is a big leap if he's just talking about the album not going creatively the way he apparently thought it his own head it would or should go.

It was well established that Brian and Joe scored the album deal based on Brian/Joe songs. Further, Mike wrote or co-wrote a full 1/3 of the resulting TWGMTR album (four of the twelve tracks). We also have no reports/observations that Mike made any overtures to Brian during the C50 tour to write some songs together.

We also have Mike as late as *June* of 2012, well after the album came out, and over a month into the C50 tour, praising Joe Thomas for putting the whole thing together. So if he ended up calling Joe Thomas a "pathological liar" several years later based on the songwriting input on the album, then that obviously rings pretty hollow.

I'm guessing Joe Thomas secured a nice hunk of money for Brian and Mike (which then to varying degrees trickled down to the others) to do the project, perhaps a nice big advance, and that's the only reason we even got an album and 73 dates as opposed to the *two* reunion shows Mike had been pitching several years prior to C50.

I'm guessing one of the main reasons for conflict comes from the fact Mike had been his own boss for 14 years from 1998-2012, having not to answer to anyone except maybe BRI from a corporate oversight perspective.  Vibes I got that day was anger and consternation from many angles.  Obviously had a tiff with Joe where things came down much differently that had been decided at those initial meetings.  Then came the agreement after the Melinda incident where he walked out, where he ran the concert shows and JT/BW finished the album.  He mentioned repeatedly that the 73 were cast in stone and there was an agreed upon  "end" to the tour. 

HJ, you mentioned  June 2012.  Funny, I was at a reunion show on 6/23/12 in Cleveland and I would say it was a very cold sound check that I saw as part of my meet n greet.  I posted previously that at the end of sound check, Scot held Al back to have him re-rehearse the ending to Help me Rhonda. Eventually saying to Al, this is how we do this now.   No talking between the principals at all during the sound check....zippo

I go back to one of the truest posts I've ever read on this board......We were so lucky to have them for 73 shows.....with the bands total dysfunctional history, who would have bet it would have lasted that long.

ok, I didn't mean to derail this thread.  Its when I saw all of you tossing Joe Thomas's name as potentially part of the new album, I did chuckle....

Joe Thomas had the patience of a saint to deal with the BBs....

Yeah, can you imagine dealing with myKe luHv with his jealousy, paranoid inferiority complex syndrome? I'd rather eat liver.

eet smakelijk OsD.  :lol

At the Al Jardine concert March 26th here in Atlanta, Al said "Yesterday Matt was working with Brian in the studio" for what that's worth!

The thing is, nobody really buys Brian solo albums. Same for Mike. They don't get streamed really either. Only The Beach Boys name would sell, and get some attention. Too bad they couldn't record together, but tour apart. In their late 70's, time is almost up...

I think at this  point , Brian does what he wants to musically when he wants s to, regardless of sales. Doesn’t do too badly chartwise considering the state of the industry,either

Even when they did record and tour together for C50, they only did a couple of the new songs in the shows. They really don't need to record any new music at this point. People come to hear the old stuff.

I'd say that MANY of 'us' would also like to hear some new stuff.  So maybe 1/2 the crowd comes "to hear the old stuff".  Nothing wrong with aiming some of the show at committed and long time fans.  'Fly by nighters' will be happy with a 20-80 split.  So they don't hear the 'Janless' version of Barbara Ann for a change.  :'(  Boo hoo!!!  [I'm already over it.]

If you're a fan of the music, then why does it matter too much whether the stuff sells well or "gets attention?"

If I were a brand manager, sure, I'd tell them all to get back together and do another reunion. I think great things both financially and artistically could come of that.

But if we're just batting around the topic of Brian's next album, why does it matter how well it sells?

That being said, comparing Brian's solo album success to Mike's is really not an apt comparison. Mike's album last year didn't even chart on the main Top 200 albums chart. Most of Brian's solo albums have, including his most recent, "No Pier Pressure", which debuted at #28. Brian has often managed to snag a record deal with a major (Capitol, Disney, Warner, etc.).

The Beach Boys, collectively and individually, should have realized DECADES ago that they should be making GOOD ALBUMS that get award nominations and good press, and fulfill some level of artistic need on their part.

The reason we got the Frankenstein "Still Cruisin'" and "Summer in Paradise" was because someone was trying to repeat the "Kokomo" type of success and get "attention and sales." They failed miserably of course (in the case of SIP especially).

The fact that a "Brian Wilson" tour outgrossed the "Beach Boys" tour in the US in 2017 tells me Brian actually HAS built a brand on his own name that not only has more "indie cred" and all of that, but can actually compete with the "Beach Boys" name. To say nothing of most Brian Wilson solo albums from 1998 to 2015 outperforming the last couple of 90s Beach Boys projects, namely "Stars and Stripes" and "Summer in Paradise."

Matt, I have 2 answers to this.
Firstly, "nobody" is a bit exaggerated; for example, I bought all of them, so "nobody" it isn't.
Secondly, you are obviously right that the BB name would sell more.... but someone nixed that possibility. Hints: first name is short for the thing Bruce keeps adjusting during touring BB's tours; family name should be the opposite of hate. Should.

To Hey Jude and Thorgil, I thoroughly enjoyed reading both of your posts above. Exceptional indeed! Thank you.  :woot :woot

The reason that Brian can actually "compete with the 'Beach Boys' name" is because most true fans know 'the difference' and also that 'the Beach Boys' really don't exist anymore.  Those who know the music know, too, that Brian Wilson represents about 85-90% of what the Beach Boys accomplished in a positive vein musically.   And if anyone in their right mind wants to compare the likes of 'Still Crew-sin' or 'Summer in Pair of Dice' favourably to 'BWPS', 'TLOS' or 'No Pier Pressure' then they aren't really versed in anything which matters one iota when it comes to musicality or quality.  As for 'tiny's' solo release from some short while ago... ... ... :lol... ... ... :lol :lol... ... ... :lol :lol :lol... ... ... :lol :lol :lol :lol... ... ... :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol... ... ... :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol... ... ... :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol... ... ... :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol... ... ... ::)

A very, VERY small number of talented people know how to take a song and arrange it so that it can realize something special and travel somewhat beyond what was perceived to be it's full potential.  Then there are guys named Mike who might be able to jot down a quick poem but who couldn't arrange a one vehicle funeral 'procession' even if their lives depended upon it.

Jeff Foskett makes better 'records' than THAT guy.  So too do most other people with a hint of talent.

Thank you, OSD. :)

The reason it matters if the new stuff sells or not is: if the new stuff is successful, then the artists will be encouraged to feature more of it in their live shows, instead of just playing the old stuff, tour after tour. When was the last time Brian and his band played anything from TLOS or GIOMH?

Brian's going on 76 years old and has been touring for almost 20 years solo; I think his modus operandi in putting together setlists and shows is pretty set. He's never going to do a ton of solo stuff. I've never understood why his shows are viewed as "Brian Wilson Solo Career" shows. They've never been marketed as such, and have never constituted that.

It's a "Brian Wilson" show in the most literal sense; it's stuff mostly written or co-written by Brian.

He has never done a ton of solo stuff in concert (full albums excepted of course), and to the degree he has, he usually features whatever his most recent album project is. By the next tour, most if not all of the "new album" stuff is gone. Brian doesn't even have a bunch of "next tours" left in him in all likelihood, so hoping for a #1 smash hit album in 2018 in hopes that the stuff will survive in the setlist until 2028 seems like a stretch in numerous ways.

A new studio album in tandem with a tour usually means we'll get 3 or 4 new album songs (usually whittled down to 2 or 3 by the end of the tour), and the rest of the set is older BB back catalog stuff (especially when he's touring a full album like PS where the number of songs that can be swapped out is very minimal when they have to fit in "classics" as well as PS). Brian has on occasion mixed in an old solo track here or there ("Let It Shine" in 2000, "Your Imagination" and "Going Home" in 2013), but in that case I think he was just picking songs he wanted to do. Those weren't "hit" songs either.

But again, Brian's been on the road for almost 20 years solo. He's never NOT going to do old BB classics, and his shows will never NOT include predominantly Beach Boys material. I'd love to see BB deep cuts and solo deep cuts woven in and out of the setlist. I'd love more dynamic setlists across the board. But, while I can totally envision a number of additional years of touring from Brian and I'm not trying to signal his demise, I think at his age and career stage, we're DECADES past the stage of pondering "maybe he can kickstart a successful solo career and ditch doing mostly BB songs." Frankly, even if he DID score a #1 smash hit solo album and even if we had a "Kokomo"-sized success with a particular song solo, even *then* his shows would still be mostly BB tunes.

If he scores his own "Kokomo"-sized solo hit in 2018, his live shows would surely feature that song, and would also still have "Barbara Ann" and "Fun Fun Fun" and all of that.

The only time we might get a larger proportion of solo material in his shows again is if he does another TLOS-style song cycle and does the "full album live" thing, and even in that case, just like TLOS or Gershwin, it would be one-and-done and then back to his normal live show format. Even when he has done those full new albums in concert, it hasn't been because those albums sold super well or were big hits. It was just what he built those tours around, and they were well-respected, relatively high-concept projects that he could feature.