The Smiley Smile Message Board

Here's a quick rundown.

http://www.examiner.com/article/brian-wilson-s-11th-solo-album-on-its-way

I'm excited.

Thrilled that it's BW album with Al and David plus Brian's other guests. Equally as pleased that mYke and brOOth will be outside looking in. :lol

From Brian's site:

http://www.brianwilson.com/news/

I'm depressed.... I realize there was very little chance of this being a BB record, but I hoping against hope especially with the photos that emerged of Mike working in the same studio just a few days ago.... I'm a Beach Boys fan, not a Brianista, what can I say? Seriously bummed.... MIC better still be coming out... that's a threat Capitol!!!

I'm incredibly excited  :-D

me too....one should just be happy & thankful anything is being released at this stage.

nah... Beach Boys for me, please. Not interested in anything else.

Well, that's not quite true. But that's how I feel at the moment anyway. Wah.  :'(

By the way, for the record, I recognize that it is likely that Mike is mostly to blame for the BB record not happening, and I certainly don't blame Brian for carrying on and am glad that people are excited, but for some of us, it's just another depressing reminder that the 50th anniversary was a one and done deal.

Interesting that there's no indication of who, if anybody, Brian's working with on the production side of things. Yeah, Don Was is mentioned, but from the reference it seems he's more a guest than a production presence.

So I assume that means no Joe Thomas. What does that say about our chances of seeing the remainder of "Life's Suite" in the near future? Are we going to have wait until the next Beach Boys reunion?

The original press release at brianwilson.com/news says "Installed at Ocean Way, Wilson and his hand-picked band of friends have taken a fluid, woodshedding approach to the recording process, letting collaborative creativity drive the sessions.  Wilson is working with longtime collaborator Joe Thomas to hone the arrangements, often assembling pieces from various takes.  Details about the album and its release will be shared soon."

Consider me just a fan of fine melodies and chords: I'm pumped for this!

I'll be missing the voices of Mike and Bruce, especially Bruce, but that doesn't really spoil this for me. Brian's tunes for this project have received heavy praise from multiple sources - I can't wait to hear them!

Brian Wilson is recording a new album with two original Beach Boys guesting, how can that possibly be depressing news for a Beach Boys fan? If given the choice I would also prefer another Beach Boys album, but if we can't have one, I'd say that this is the best possible alternative.

So Dave, are you still saying we "can count on" that new Beach Boys album in 2013?? Excited about the Brian album, although I'd rather it be a BB album.  But why do our boys always feel they have to include enough guest stars to fill an episode of the Love Boat?

Also we most likely will get another BB's album and tour it was just never going to happen a year after the last one.

+1

Although just above me Shady makes a good point as well.  While part of me understands Mike Love's position and what he wants to do with his life and his career, there is still a part of me that cannot reconcile as a working professional musician why he would not want The Beach Boys to be the beneficiary of all this renewed sense of prolific creativity on the part of his cuzzz.  One would think Mike would want to capitalize on that but I guess his plan is his plan.

Edit: As for how Brian Wilson recording a new record with two guesting Beach Boys could be depressing to a Beach Boys fan?  Let me offer you this alternate universe scenario:  The Beatles get back together circa mid 80s and record an album that is critically well received and backed by a successful tour.  The following year John Lennon begins work on a solo album, invites George Harrison and Ringo Starr along but not Paul McCartney.  I guarantee you Beatles fans would've been bummed about that too.

I agree. The Beach Boys didn't appear on my radar until 2003 and back then I was pretty sure that I'd missed everything. But it's been surprise after suprise ever since. BWPS, TLOS, Brian's other albums, Al's album, TSS box set, TWGMTR, the reunion tour... Each of these things were a big bonus to me. So at this point, they can release 'Stars & Stripes Vol. 2', 'The Going Public Sessions' or 'Summer In Paradise... Naked' and I'll get it.

Super-duper excited!

Exactly!

Something I just thought of... Regardless of how cool Dennis, Carl and Mike are or where, Brian was kind of stuck with them for the simple reason that they were his family. And Bruce, Ricky and Blondie were professionals who were considered right for the job at the time. Al and David were the only ones who became Beach Boys on the basis of friendship. So in that way, it's pretty cool that they are the guys that Brian ends up working with now, 52 years down the road.

Woohoo!!  Awesome, awesome news!

Without searching and reading through a million posts with opinion/bashing/rumors -- what happened with the BB record not happening?

recall that Mike said he was not allowed to be alone with Brian to write. Why in hell would he want to submit to that sort of control. I am sad, but I do not blame Mike, whose heart has been open. Sad sad sad. I am "BB only," please.  But I'll get it to hear the Al and Dave parts if Jeff does not quadruple track them out of existence.

I should state that if this record isn't pleasure Island I'll be pretty bummed

I'm cautiously optimistic about this. I'm always going to get pumped about brand new Brian Wilson songs, and I'm really interested to see what this turns out like with super talented Jeff Beck. The caution comes in with Joe Thomas and what this thing might sound like. I'm hoping for the best, because this could nd great, but the realist in me is tempering my expectations. We might finally be getting Pleasure Island, or we could be getting Imagination with better guitar solos.

It'd be interesting to know if this is what a Beach Boys album would've sounded like (since Brian said he wanted to record with them again) or if these songs were never considered anything else but Brian solo stuff. Thomas made it clear that from the '98 sessions Brian had exact plans for what would be solo and what would be Beach Boys songs.
Anyway, I hope that Brian doesn' feel bad when this album won't be a big seller (which wil probably be the case). I'm very happy that the success of the Beach Boys tour and album gave him new creativity but don't want him to get bummed out.

I'm just being Donnie Downer right now - I'll keep crossing my fingers and hope it still happens - maybe next year. I think it's cool that Al and David are on Brian's new record, but it's just not the news I most wanted to hear. Again, wah.

Exciting news. Fingers crossed.

Mike's statements of "I can't write with Brian" are really a red-herring in this situation, Mike just wanted to go back to M&B after the C50 mega-tour presented problems for him. (IMO)

I hear ya.  Going to the store last summer to buy a NEW BEACH BOY RECORD!!! that had BRIAN WILSON!!! on it... actually gave me "pause," shall we say, as I reached for it on the shelf.

I remember trying to process what was going on.  Staring at the CD in the shrink wrap.  Making sure I "fully understood" what I was doing!   :-D

That was simply a big f-cking deal in my musical life.  It didn't happen everyday -- and wasn't sure if it would again.  The SMiLE Sessions, was an equally perplexing and surreal moment.  Unable to process with my tiny brain the full breadth of the reality I was seemingly sleep-walking through.

BW solo albums are really cool, though.  But I think were just used to them?

We're used to getting BW albums on a pretty frequent basis for 25 years now. I find that breathtaking...  :o

http://www.brianwilson.com/news/ just read the title

Maybe we'll hear a few new songs on Brian, Al, and David's summer tour dates?

Capitol is glad to have Brian back but I'm sure they wanted a new Beach Boy's album. Maybe next year.

Go Brian, go Brian, go Brian go!

I'd REALLY be happy if Brian let Al sing lead on  2 or 3 tracks. Now THAT would be the next best thing to a new Beach Boys album. Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing this to see if he can top what he did for TWGMTR. I get the feeling he's trying.

When you step back and think about the whole story -- it's pretty amazing to think we're still getting new BW solo albums in 2013.  And thank God for that!  I remember when Imagination came out in 1998 -- thinking it would certainly be his last.  Or when '88 came out -- that would be his only!


 :tm

Can't believe no one's mentioned this yet--It looks like we're finally getting that "rock 'n roll" album we've been hearing about for so many years!

That's what I was thinking too!  Jeff Beck?  Sounds like some guitar solos!!   :rock


(https://crackinfilms.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/its-waynes-world_517x290.jpg)

I think they offered them that last year. But when they parted Capitol must've known that there wasn't another BBs album gonna happen.

Who listens to Brian Wilson albums for the guitar solos?

I like this quote...

“I was really moved by the fans’ excitement about The Beach Boys’ album and tour last year,” says Wilson.  “It charged me up and my head was full of music - I just couldn’t wait to get back into the studio to let it out.”

I know he says that kind of stuff a lot... but it just feels sincere to me.

  :listening

That's about to change, my friend  ;)

(http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/58/5838/II5SG00Z/posters/jeff-beck-group-david-slania-1977.jpg)

Great news.

So Mike working in the same studio...that's for something else?...or is it a surprise appearance on Brian's solo album?

Hi Justin,

I think the general consensus here has been that it's most likely Mike working on an archival, MIC track. Particularly with Alan Boyd in that photo as well. :)

Yes, I'd love to have a couple of Al leads and have Al in the background vocals on ALL tracks.

Okeydokes---thanks Dave!

I hope it is great and does great. I'm not a particular fan of any of their solo work so far.

Question, I think it was mentioned that the remainder of the 'My Life' suite wasn't going to be on MiC - possibility of it being on Brian's new album instead?

"The new album is being described as a fluid, woodshedding approach to the recording process, letting collaborative creativity drive the sessions."

This quote makes me think it's the Rock n roll album that Brian has been hinting at, does that means these came out of jam sessions? if so then maybe the songs from 98 won't be on here unless they are re-recorded the same with the "Life Suite" but maybe it's a little of both part jam sessions part 98/suite..

Imagine Jeff Beck and Dave Marks dueling.  Oh man.

I share your cautious optimism (or optimistic caution), for the same reason.  I assume Joe Thomas is more or less ghost-producing this, as he did TWGMTR.  Dare I hope he won't sterilize and autotune the life out of this?  My vote would have been for Scott Bennett as Brian's production collaborator, but this is where we are, so I'll hope for the best.

We're all just idly speculating here since that press release was missing any details on the album's contents, but I would be somewhat surprised if any more of the My Life Suite EVER surfaces. I have a hunch that it was raided for material for TWGMTR because Joe and Brian realize that the rest of it just isn't very good and isn't worth recording/releasing. Why else would you release a portion of a larger work? It's all part of the editing and creative process. You work on something, step back and look at what you've done, and ultimately a lot of stuff is left on the cutting room floor. I don't look at this My Life Suite as the next great white whale for Beach Boys fans to obsess over- merely an idea and some work done 15 years ago  for a project that didn't really pan out.

This new album does sound like  the rock album that BW has been talking about for quite a long time now. What exactly a Brain Wilson rock album even is and what it will sound like  does give me pause. I'm hoping it's a retro approach. I'm thinking it could be kind a Chuck Berry and Rockabilly kind of thing which Jeff Beck would be good for. Some nice short punchy songs would be welcome.

I have all along said, "There will be a studio album."  Nothing more, nothing less.

It seems like there is now a definite rift between the two camps. Mid tour, Brian said something  like he was done with solo albums and only wanted to do new BB albums. Al said they were going to finish the left over Radiio tracks for MIC.

Then Brian, Al, and David were "fired", and DBA are recording and touring on their own. And apparently, no new Radio tracks on the boxed set.

I am very curious about the terms of Mike's BB license. How bad is the riff between camps and will it go farther?

OK, you did say that.  In the thread "Information on the next BB album," you said, simply, "there will be a new studio album in 2013."

I'm just gonna say... DEAR GOD PLEASE DON'T LET JOE THOMAS f*** THIS UP!!!!!!!

with that being said, I'm pumped to hear BW and Jeff Beck!!

That is all.

This is why even though I have tempered excitement for Brian's new solo record, I think what we've lost here collectively as a fanbase is far more than anything we'll gain.  I think there are a number of us who last year we ready for The Beach Boys to reform as a living, breathing entity in the world of pop music.  I think while many of us have enjoyed or continue to enjoy Brian Wilson's solo work it comes down to do you want to see Brian Wilson perform with a band that while extremely talented essentially apes The Beach Boys or do you want to see The Beach Boys with Brian Wilson as a member of the group?  To me to even ask such a question is ludicrous.

As for Brian Wilson's comments, we all know his comments change with the weather.  This time next year he could be onto something else but something to keep in mind is the man is seventy years old.  Now I know there are many pundits here who will point out many examples of artists who performed well into their eighties and beyond but realistically there are probably only so many years left that Brian, Al, Mike, Dave and Bruce have either individually or collectively as a recording and touring unit.  So I don't think it's unfair for Beach Boys fans to want to see the C50 lineup as often as they can before it no longer becomes realistically feasible for them to be a touring outfit.  So I can totally understand that perspective.

The thing is though aside from optimism on the part of certain fans on this forum, there has been literally nothing even remotely positive about the C50 lineup ever collaborating or performing together again since the C50 tour ended and I at least have accepted that.  Doesn't necessarily mean I'm happy about it but I'd be a fool to remain in a state of permanent denial.

Quite.

All Brian albums get hyped like crazy. TLOS is the only one that has really held up to it over time. I have a wait and see attitude about anything, especially with JT aboard. I wish he'd use a less safe choice.

I would postulate that the only way the 5 are going to band together again is if Brian and Al get the license.  Mike would have to tour under his own name and that would be slim going financially.  Then it would only a matter of time for Mike to return, tail between his legs. And Bruce always follows Mike.

As for Brian's new album, Joe Thomas has a sound, the JTS. Expect nothing else.

Was it "Surf's Up?" that Jeff Beck did at the Brian tribute concert?  It was real nice. 

With Brian's often complicated chords/melodies, I hope he is given space to add his creativity.  Also, hope he's on the whole thing, not just a strange (and thus out of place) track like Clapton was on GIOMH.

Not too worried.  Sounds like he will be more "integrated"... but, we'll see.

I think we all need to learn to be happy with the fact that we're getting some creative output, and patient enough to observe the proceedings from afar, which is where we're at.

To me a BW product is gold dust. A BBs product would be gold dust and we've just had that.

I dunno… one BBs album in 18 years, and suddenly some folks are acting like the sky's falling because they're not suddenly pumping them out annually.  Be thankful, I reckon, that we've had that and that the guys are still putting out product and performing live, in whatever entities.

Anyone here want to be working into their 70s?  We'll never have it this good again…

Mike has an incredible ego and can't handle the adulation Brian receives constantly. Notice how in most of the interviews around the 50 Big Ones period, how Bruce, Al, David, and Brian would constantly go out of the way to specifically call Mike a genius, often when the questions were about Brian? How many times has Bruce said something like, when asked about his favorite Beach Boys songs, "Oh, probably 'California Girls'. Brian and Mike did a great job on that one. Brian had this wonderful arrangement and that great looping, kinda country & western bassline, but let's also take a moment to appreciate Mike's lyrics. What a genius that guy is with lyrics, sorta tying in all the different regions of the country into this great California dream. I love that record. I love it, and to this day, Brian is still upset with the vocals at the end. He thought we were behind the beat. Can you believe it?"

Or Brian, whenever he was asked about the reunion, says something like, "The fact that we can all sing, all harmonize still, really amazes me. And Mike still has lyrical genius, his way with words. I'm just knocked out, really knocked out."

People want to say Brian's demanding, but I think Mike is to in his own way.

Well, in that scenario, I'd just be grateful that my favorite musician had survived the nightmare of Dec 8, 1980.

I mean, I'm pulling your leg a bit here, but as a Beatlefan, the loss of John just makes it so very hard for me to compare the two.  It would be like saying "Hey, if you could have had Carl and Dennis back last year for one final album and tour, wouldn't you be disappointed not to get even more?"  Meanwhile, all you can think is "I'd just be happy to see them alive, and anything else is gravy!"

That said, I do take your meaning, and well, yes, a part of me wishes it could be another full Beach Boys album coming our way, because those voices are just magical together, even today.  But I cannot pretend that I haven't been dying of curiosity and excitement over the Ocean Way photos every time a new one is released, and the welcome addition of Al and David make the prospects for the new Brian LP all the more enticing to me.

Concerning the album itself, I'm with Paulos, let's hear some more of the "Life Suite" tracks, please, Brian!  Al and David will be there to help lend their talents and hey, for all we know, there's the possibility that Mike and Bruce cut some vocals for these numbers last year, too.  Maybe we could see a few more of the suite numbers on Brian's new album, before the final pieces are released on Made in California or the (hopefully coming) next Beach Boys album, and then we can assemble all of the pieces ourselves?

What are the odds that Brian names this rock 'n' roll album "Pleasure Island"?  I mean, when the press release specifically mentions that Brian has "a rock & roll-driven album in mind," are we to surmise that this is the fabled project Brian has had in mind for so long, now, or something different?  I know Wilson said something to the effect of "no concept, just music" this time, but one cannot help but wonder.

Yes, it was at the MusiCares 2005 Person of the year award.

I'm not worried at all. Check out Jeff Beck's "Blow by Blow" album! Full of very complicated chords/melodies. Even if it's one track, Beck is way more versatile and experimental than Clapton, so I doubt it will sound so stock. Beck can do it all.. fusion, jazz, blues, rock and even BW compositions.

Here's the full Blow by Blow album http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdwzXnWa_x4

Totally agree.

EC is absolutely capable of brilliantly succinct, clear, beautifully articulated guitar playing... but I see a guy like Beck going deeper and working with the artist/song more.  And hanging out before and afterwards.  It's often in during those times that musical spirits and ideas emerge and "gel."

Well stated, John.

Proud Mary

The most creative mind in modern music is making a new album. Am I excited. YES!

C'mon, you really think he says any of the things that are attributed to him in press releases?

Anyone can do a latter day Brian Wilson quote and have it look like he said it. Just replace words that end in ng with n', throw in a "creative" here and there, and end it with love and mercy.

+1!

I also remember when Summer In Paradise was going to be THE LAST Beach Boys album.... Thankfully that's no longer a reality.

I do this, in general, worries about Joe Thomas are misplaced. His work on TWGMTR (whatever his exact role) was far less obtrusive than his contributions to Imagination. The backing tracks were, generally, consistent with Brian's solo work of the previous decade. The vocals were far more massaged, yes, but generally listenable.

On this new album, as long as he's not trying to market Brian to an adult contemporary audience (the entire conceit behind Imagination), I suspect we'll get something decent. And as long as the vocals are allowed to breathe at least a little bit, I think we'll be fine.

Another interesting question: Who's doing backing vocals on this? Looks like Jeff and Al were doing some, but I wonder if we'll be returning to a wall-of-Brians on some tracks.

Same as it's been for the past decade and more, which in simple terms means Brian, Alan & Carl's estate each get a pretty penny every year for doing precisely squat.

Yeah, shame Brian didn't write songs so mYke luHv couldn't enjoy a lucrative career in show business. Poor, poor, pitiful myKe. ::)

damn i want a title and tracklist  ^-^

This! Big time

I remember reading that Al said something like that. Did Brian too? What and when did he?






I think "In the key of Disney" and the Gershwin album are at least as good. To me those three albums (TLOS, BWRG, ITKOD) are Brian's best solo work. And - a little off topic - TWGMTR fits into that as well, although it has more weak points than the other three imo.

What is a pretty penny? I have never seen any numbers put out there. I know the C50 grossed in the millions and millions.

At what point do they have enough pretty pennies and control of the name becomes priority 1? Must have crossed Brian and Melinda's mind since Mike cut the cord. Just sayin?

Given Mike's litigious nature, I don't know if any of the other principals really want to fight him on this. Especially if -- as has been suggested -- the Love license doesn't have a sunset date. They would then have to find some explicit breach of contract to justify taking it away from him.

I think BW88, especially in its expanded form, is excellent. IJWMFTT and OCA were diverting side projects. Imagination is a step down in some ways, but has some of Brian's best harmony singing and arranging to date.

GIOMH is to few folks' taste these days, but BWPS had some great moments, even if retrospectively. I love the Christmas album, although I know it's perhaps the most disputed of Brian's solo output. And then, as mentioned, Brian essentially went from strength to strength with TLOS, Gershwin, Disney (a bit of a dip in quality, but still enjoyable) and TWGMTR.

I'd actually say that Brian has had relatively few outright duds in his solo career. Arguably only TLOS, BW88 and the Gershwin records approach the top rank. But Imagination, BWPS, IJWFTT, OCA and the Disney record all sit comfortably on a level below them.

No one has ever addressed the terms of the license as far as I know. Yeah,, seems like their is no sunset clause.
But if Brian convenes a meeting of BRI and requests a vote on the license, I doubt Mike  could do anything about it legally. Would seem BRI has been there and set that in legal stone when Al got sued.

I doubt it has crossed Brian and Melinda's mind at all. The Beach Boys is a business and I'm sure Brian and Melinda are as aware of that as anyone.

I think it was stated previously that Mike has to pay 20% of his touring money to BRI so with the group playing 100+ concerts a year that must add up to a very sizable sum. No way I could see Brian and Melinda deciding to give up what could be millions of dollars over the next few years for no real purpose. After all, if they did start voting against Mike then it would hardly mean that there would be a good chance Mike would suddenly be up for more reunion work.

The situation was different with Al. At that time, use of the name was in limbo because of Carl's death. It would have had to be re-negotiated anyway. The legal documents show that all of the principals were issued non-exclusive licenses during that time, including Mike and Al. The issue was the Al didn't follow through with the terms of his. That's why he was sued, and that's why he lost.

All the excruciating detail here: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1213400.html.

In any event, the license was no doubt changed after that, given that Al is not touring as "The Beach Boys." We don't know what's in the current license, but if it gives Mike perpetual rights to the name, I'm not sure what grounds the other members would have to take it away. And given that Mike still produces money, and will be a colossal headache if they try to take it away, I think the current situation is likely to continue.

I am pretty sure I read that Brian said this during the Radio PR campaign. Can't tell you where.

This interview Brian talks about the next BB album, a rock and roll album.

http://news.radio.com/2012/07/02/qa-brian-wilson-on-beach-boys-tour-next-album-possible-frank-sinatra-tribute/

I suspect that Melinda (if not Brian) has thought about wrangling over the name. But I don't think Brian necessarily wants to do that. Al would no doubt go along with a proposal changing the terms, but that would still leave a final vote uncertain. Remember, Carl's estate is the fourth vote. If it sides with Mike, you have a tie.

All good points but, not to be picky, how can we not know what's in the current license while saying Mike has perpetual rights to the name. I have read speculation to the opposite, Mike has the license until BRI revokes it.

The Beach Boys are money-grubbing people. Always have been. And Brian's no exclusion. I doubt that any of them thinks about "control of the name" or even of goin' out in style as we fans do think. We can be thankful that the last Beach Boys project (TWGMTR and the tour) went down so well and would be a great end to a career that seldomly cared for taste.

Yeah, if Carl's estate would lose considerable revenue cause Brian tours less, they could very well support Mike.

Sadly, probably true. But I don't think Brian is making new music for the money, nor does Mike tour just for the money

Apparently, Mike tours for something better than money.  >:D

I may be misunderstanding your post but do you mean, 'if Brian took back the name and started touring with Al and Dave as The Beach Boys'? Obviously I don't think that would have entered Brian and Melinda's heads for a second really if so.

Wonder what? ;)

I would think Melinda, at least, considered reworking the license after Mike refused to continue working in the C50 configuration. There are all sorts of things you could do to tweak the terms, short of sending out BAD as the group. You could require Mike to tour as "The Beach Boys featuring Mike Love," for instance. You could require a certain number of shows each year be done with the full lineup. There are any number of ways things could be done. But they all require pissing off Mike to one extent or another.

After their dust up in the LA Times, "ML fires Brian Wilson", I bet it croseed somebody's mind. But just, as usual, wild speculation on my part.

Hmmm.

I can imagine that Melinda may well have wanted (and perhaps demanded) that all official publicity materials make it clear that Mike and Bruce are the only principal members.

Not much else though. Calling the band, "The Beach Boys featuring Mike Love" would only serve to make it harder to get bookings and sell tickets. Therefore meaning less money for Melinda.

Asking for a certain number of full lineup shows every year would have made certain things worse I would have thought as the public would have had even less of an idea who they would have been turning up to watch.

Ultimately comes down to what these folks value. And unless they tell us in a truly unscripted and unguarded way, we probably won't know.

Wild speculation is what keeps it fun!

Possibly in a moment of anger but I really would doubt it.

Brian has built up a name for himself with his solo work over the past several years and touring in a shadow Beach Boys lineup would do nothing to boost his reputation imo.

And I don't think Brian, Al and Dave would sell any more tickets than Mike does now. I believe M&B have played the same size venues as Brian on many occasions so I'm not sure why Brian would want to go out as The Beach Boys and have to pay Mike a cut for every show when he could go out under his own name and pay nothing.

When you think about it, this sounds quite great! a new Brian album solo, but is it solo really since all the guests, and does sounds like it's going to be the promised rock'n'roll album! with Jeff Beck, and i'm sure David Marks will bring some of his talents, Al Jardine's voice would fit perfectly on some tunes like that! this time i won't have to picture him singin' on it like TLOS, he'll be singin'! again like TLOS, it's a shame it was refused by Mike Love and his girlfriend but oh well, i'm getting really excited for that.

And i love Jeff Beck! his touch is unique and beautiful.. his version of Surf's Up fit soo well, tho i didn't really like the final to be honest.

For reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai6wfqfs22Y

The online poll a few months ago, not this site, about who would you like to see, was 7 to 1 people wanting to see Brian, Al and David vs. Mike/Brian. Will try and find the poll for ya.

87% want to see Brian, with Al & David vs. 10 % The Mike/Bruce show.

A Brian, Al, David Beach Boys would be a highly sucessful touring act!


http://news.radio.com/2013/03/12/mike-loves-beach-boys-or-brian-wilson-friends-who-is-the-real-deal/

Is it any surprise??, Any doubt that myKe luHv is washed up?? Would enjoy watching him and his ego cut down to size. >:D

I like the Disney record a lot because it's classic Brian Wilson -- mining a vein that I don't think anybody of his generation would think -- or dare -- to mine.  Lion King?  Pocahantas!?  F- yeah!!

Plus he threw some stunt harmonizing in there.  Some black belt, karate!!

The Gershwin album is more polished and "impressive" -- but more boring to me.  I listen to a lot of the Great American Songbook... so, you know.

I'm sure the new record will have a handful of really great songs, and I'm excited to hear the new work.

Hoping we hear a lot of Al!

I guess I differ there, I like the Beach Boys LP on vinyl, but the CD mix is a bit hollow. I don't like either cover album, they sound so stereotypical "Brian". I always say listen to Sharon Marie's Summertime. There Brian did something cool, spooky, and esoteric. On the solo LP it sounds so predictable. I guess BWRG has some cool moments, but not a work that got more than passing interest from me. Disney I just am not found of.

Mike: "I'm a genius too!"

Big thing: Brian also mentions performing live with Jeff Beck. That's freaking awesome. Of the three Yardbirds guitarists, I like Beck the best.

Well, isn't Brian receiving even more millions than he can eat from song royalties anyway without Mike touring? I can't imagine the plus income being a reason for B&M not to vote against Mike's licence. It is, as some stated, a different thing for Carl's estate.


That's a valid point.

So, Bri, give Mike those writing-with-you-only sessions that he wants, and we'll have world peace.

I would imagine we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars, year in, year out: certainly Carl's estate aren't going to rock that boat. As long as Mike adheres to the terms of the license (which he has done, scrupulously), and as long as the rest of the BRI members don't decide they want to pass up a regular and substantial payday for some vague artistic gesture (and guess what - they've not so far), then Mike retains control.

And please, can we finish with the "fired" and "cut the chord" ? No-one was fired, as you well know. The situation reverted to the pre-C50 format, as was agreed by all members. And... if Brian is indeed so all-fired to keep making Beach Boys albums, all he has to do is ask Mike & Bruce to stroll on down to Oceanway. Sad as it may seem, this new solo venture might devolve into a mere tool for scoring points, at least in the eyes of a segment of the fanbase.

C50 is over. Understand it, live with it. No more albums, no more tours: it was an astonishing time, one that I never dared would come to pass, but it did, and now it's done. These guys are heading towards their mid-70s at a fast trot and only Alan seems to be in reasonably rude health: Brian & Mike have back issues and Bruce had a bypass some years ago. Enjoy what we have while it's still here, because in my lifetime there will come a year when maybe David is the Last Beach Boy Standing.

Hardly a scientific or impartial sampling.  ;D

Some much needed reality here.

Unless you know exact numbers, shouldn't throw them out. As unlikely as the C50 was, it happened. As unlikely as you think the license won't change, it could.

I do agree the 5 won't probably will never join again.
Your viewpoint on the split is cool but many see it different. Like Brian, Al, the LA Times and many other rock journalists.

Not speaking for Bruce, but I talked to him about his bypass, which was years ago, and he said hi is fit as a fiddle. Don't imagine he would like people thinking he might be kicking the bucket any time soon. Just my take when we talked about it.

As to the poll, it's about as scientific as we are gonna get. Radio.com is a pretty good music site. Don't read it though, has several articles blaming Mike for the C50 split.

I think there are a couple of fine points in AGD's generally excellent response that need addressing.


At the outset of the event, yes. Three of the five principals wanted to then keep going after the London shows, and there were offers more concerts and another album on the table. Mike decided not to go along with that. These are the facts, at least as related by Jon Stebbins and those close to the group.


Given that Mike has already said he would only be interested in working with Brian if the latter wrote with him alone in a room, it scarcely seems that simple, does it?

I understand that what's done is done. But Mike's role in the dissolution of the enterprise -- or the return of the status quo, however one wants to put it -- should not be airbrushed away.

"Millions and millions" is hardly what I'd term as "exact".  ;D

The earth may turn into a mango-flavored popsicle at noon BST today: unlikely, but it could.

Whatever the income Carl's estate derives from BMI, it has to be a lot bigger than what they'd otherwise get from his musical royalties, ergo they wouldn't vote with Brian & Alan, in the highly unlikely event that any such vote came to pass. Thus, situation tied a 2-2, status quo prevails.

Mmmm....mango....

This. For the love of god...THIS.

Seconded.  Look forward.

Earth turning to mango? An anology contrasting the impossible with the possible is silly. Now that's the AGD I know.   Doubt Carl's estate gets much from BMI compared to BRI.   ;D

Looking forward to Brian's solo album, the DBA tour and dozens of articles rehashing why the band isn't together anymore. Get ready for it, deal with it, accept it!

I agree. What I try to never lose sight of is that this is a rather screwed up  family relationship being played out in public. Animosity between the Wilson'a and the Love's stretches way back. Brian and Mike would have learnt all this at the knee.

Sorry but you are talking about a completely different thing there and it actually hurts your argument. The votes there suggest that people would rather see BAD (not Brian using The Beach Boys name). Now if that poll is reflective of the concert going public it should mean that more people will go to see BAD this summer than M&B. We both know that is a million miles from being the truth.

Now that either suggests that there have been few offers from promoters for gigs or it means that Brian doesn't want to play many shows or both. Whichever is true, it certainly doesn't suggest that having Brian, Al and David touring as The Beach Boys would be a good idea.

In read the animosity as being primarily (not all, admittedly) of a business nature. My reading down recent years has been that Mike and Brian are well capable of eating steak together and enjoying a laugh, as cousins should.

My comments are all hypothetical speculation as I don't have the numbers - who gets paid what, what the average venue gross is, etc. AGDs argument is solid in stating parties benefit $ from Mike's touring. I appreciate your arguement. I would prefer neither entity call themselves the Beach Boys. I do think 3 trumps 2, but can't imagine the BB without Mike as the front man.

Here's a little experiment you can conduct during your lunch break: go outside and ask five or ten random passers-by who they'd rather go see - The Beach Boys, or Brian Wilson with Alan Jardine & David Marks. I'm betting the balance would be something like 90% BB.

So you claim Bruce and Mike are "the" Beach Boys?   Why don't you go out on your next break from bet booking and ask people who they'd rather see, the Beach Boys or Mike Love and Bruce Johnston. You argue your own argument.
 

Tosh -  make it easy for them by showing ads for a gig by each act.

AGD's figures might not be quite spot on; I reckon 80% will opt for the band billed as the BBs, 10% BAD, and another 10% will say "who the feck are Brian Wilson with Alan Jardine & David Marks?"

Now, if you sat down for an hour or two and explained the whole scenario in the required depth, you might start to get a different set of answers entirely… might…

Two different arguments going on there...

The bottom line is that the current scenario is much better for Brian than if he were to try to take The Beach Boys name. He gets more money at the moment, does not have to go through the hassle of trying to change the agreement, should be able to play more interesting setlists when he tours under his own name etc. There is no logical reason why he would want to start calling himself 'The Beach Boys'. This would be especially true if he were planning to release new material.

And on the '3 trumps 2' subject. For the general public I don't think David Marks is important at all. When he stopped touring with Mike and Bruce in 1999 it didn't adversely affect them after all. And I have seen them perform without David in 2004 and with David in 2008. At the same venue with the same size audience and the same crowd response. I was delighted to see him up there but I don't think he had any real impact on ticket sales.

Huh? My premise, which you both have chosen to argue,  is the possibilities of Brian taking the license and three original members, including the guy who is considered the genius behind the band's sucess, touring as the Beach Boys, against one original member and another longstanding member.

I assume you and AGD go giddily to the Lynyrd Skynyrd gigs too when they tour the UK. Flicking on your lighters, closing your eyes, and swaying to the music when they play Freebird.

So you say a Brian album wouldn't sell amazing better if called a Beach Boys album? And the C50 didn't earn vastly more money for Brian that he will draw now? Or Brian, Al and David, called the Beach Boys, wouldn't be highly successful?

I guess you would argue it be cool if Roger Daltry went out calling his band The Who, but without Pete.

It all comes down to personsl opinion. I like mine.

If Brian were to try to get the name for touring reasons then that doesn't mean that he could necessarily release a Beach Boys album. Mike and Bruce don't have the right to record an album after all. That is a completely different argument.

Plus, you are saying that you think Brian would want to release a Beach Boys album without Mike or Bruce on it. Something I very much doubt.

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion but there are also certain pertinent facts in this instance. The main one being that Brian didn't do any of the things that you are suggesting and I haven't heard any mention that he considered doing it. There has never been any talk that Brian or Melinda convened a meeting to talk about changing the touring agreement at all. Never mind them actually exploring the possibility of Brian touring and recording as The Beach Boys himself.

I'm not sure why the comparison with The Who. Mike was touring as The Beach Boys from 1998 onwards. Roger Daltrey wasn't touring as The Who.

Basically I don't think the name of the group is sacrosanct to any of the members. If Mike, Al, Bruce etc. were to retire tomorrow then could I imagine Brian's management allowing The Beach Boys name to continue with no original members if he were paid appropriately? Yes, I can. In ten or fifteen years time that may well be a possibility I would have though.

We're trying to look realistically at a situation that is beyond our control or influence, is all, and is as it is.

If Daltry went out as The Who and Townshend went out on the road as a solo act, the majority of punters would, quite innocently, buy tickets for The Who. What aspect of that are we expected to be able to change?

What makes you think Brian even wants to revoke Mike's BRI licence and go on the road as the BBs?  The post-C50 media rumble is over and done, it's history. What we have now is things as they is. The individual BBs have moved on and are getting on with things as they see fit. Why fantasize about what isn't, and might probably never be?

As for Lynyrd Skynyrd (pronounced 'lĕh-'nérd 'skin-'nérd), I love their stuff but couldn't name one single band member (other than Dusty Hill, Francis Rossi and Seasick Steve…).  But they're not likely to play Stainforth Village Hall and I haven't carried a lighter since September 28, 2007.

Talking simple name recognition here... but since you ask, yes, since 1998, according to the democratically expressed wish of the voting members of BRI (who, last time I looked, included some dude called Brian Douglas Wilson), Mike & Bruce are indeed "The Beach Boys".

How do you define highly successful?

You see, no matter what people think about Mike he has done a good job in a business sense in terms of adapting the touring group since 1998. Having a 7 piece band and traveling on a budget has kept costs down meaning ticket prices are also affordable. Plus Mike and Bruce are happy to play 100+ tour dates a year and are willing to play any venue imaginable.

Now if Brian were to tour with Al and David as The Beach Boys then you would be talking about far more band members on stage and increased traveling costs. If ticket prices were higher then I certainly couldn't imagine them playing in bigger venues than Mike and Bruce do.

All good points except we have no idea what Brian and his wife think along those lines or may be planning, if BRI have met or plan to meet, etc. Yes, as of now, it's the Mike/Bruce show. Never say never I say.

What I would say is expect a lot more articles like this come July:

http://news.radio.com/2013/03/12/mike-loves-beach-boys-or-brian-wilson-friends-who-is-the-real-deal/

Respectively, yes, of course it would... yes, of course it did... and no, I very much doubt they would.

All I can say is go enjoy your Frebird type concert experiences. I hear the Temptations are touring the UK next year. Have a great time!

Would love to see part 3 put to the test.

Well, we only know that Brian has never publicly shown any inclination of wanting to tour as a Beach Boy without Mike over the past 15 years. And that Carl's estate's vote has always gone towards Mike having the name and as he earns far more money than Brian would there is no reason to think that would change.

As for July, I'm sure reviews will mention the two factions but as BAD are playing so few gigs I doubt it will be a big deal.

As the status quo is maintained, I assume there's been no meeting, or call for a meeting. Perhaps they've put it behind them and are getting on with life. Y'know, present and future stuff?

In fact, we have a very fair idea what Brian's people are thinking and if BRI have met, by virtue of the fact that over the last 15 years, no move has been in regard to changing the status of the license. As the old adage has it, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Granted Brian makes millions each year from his own compositions, but I'm sure his people aren't indifferent to a nice, yearly top-up that requires absolutely no effort.

Hard cold history lessen here, which sadly seems to not be what some here want anymore. Point here is, The Beach Boys broke up many years ago. What a band is called doesn't matter, Mike Love's Beach Boys aren't going to go down in history as anything but a side note, and only one step above that is Brian's solo career. Good, bad, it's the band(s) who were together in the sixties and seventies that made the true impact musically, the fluke of Kokomo aside. BWPS did very well, but TSS is the real deal. The reunion was great, I'm glad Brian felt so good about that he wanted more, but Mike rightly pointed out that they couldn't do that indefinitely and keep to that level. It was a reunion, not a reformation. Anyone who lived through the joke the band was from 1984-1997 realizes that it's for the better. Mike keeps the crowds happy and does a good job, but their time as a group  is over and that's OK.  He and Brian both have good bands they head, and why should either break them up for good? The Beach went out on a high and that makes a big difference. The sad end to the story from 1998-2011 seems to have been forgotten and that's what troubles me here. Is anything ever enough? 

Too much is never enough.

I wholeheartedly concur.

(http://www.sectalk.com/board/public/imported_images/assets.diylol.com/jesus-says-meme-generator-amen-brotha-teach-those-bitchez-bc3697.jpg)




Psyched for a new BW solo album (a type of BBs-related release which I generally prefer over, say, TWGMTR). Such good news. :3d

Spot on.

I'm quite alright with the Beach Boys never regrouping again but they did not go out on a high, Mike made sure that didn't happen.

I'm listening to FTTBA/PCH/SG right now… that, and a blistering successful world tour, suggests to me that they did go out on a high!

I think Shady was referring to the "firing" incident and the surrounding bad blood boiling up again late last year. Let's just say the culmination/termination of a magnificent and highly successful reunion tour/year could have been handled better. But then again, it's the Beach Boys. ^-^

The relationship between the band is just as important as releasing an album and completing a tour. Not only was the tour filled with backstabbing and conversations through the media we've also found out that the Beach Boys weren't even that involved in the TWGMTR album.

The shows were incredible obviously but I wish certain things could've been different, the entire reunion for me has a bitter aftertaste.

At least the professor will stop to talking about a possible Beach Boys album!

Shady - People can't seem to get the notion out of their heads that Mike had no apparent authority to fire anyone.  And that he literally "stopped" the very successful and very busy, Touring Band from its "business as usual" for C50.  They did close the C50 Tour on high ground. I'm watching the London show on YouTube right now. Undoctored, and unprofessional but unreal!  ;)

That said, Mike could assert that he was finished performing, in the C50 context, and that is his choice.  You can't force performance, as that would be a form of " indentured servitude."  

And Brian seemed more comfortable with the performances as time went on.  And largely it seemed due to his back procedure.  For years Brian didn't seem to want to perform as a Beach Boy. He went on record as such.  And everyone just accepted that.  He went solo.  I saw him even out-of-state, because I love his work.  And I selfishly would like to see them do select sections of his work at some point.  I bet we'll see them work together at some point.  

This is a great opportunity for Brian to work again with Dave and Al, as the Touring Band continues to push their own growth curve. Two words -Wild Honey! - "single-handed - took me alive!"  

Shady - It's Friday - Smiley brew time!  :beer

So...Brian has been in the studio with some very talented and musically interesting people including two erstwhile Beach Boys....he's just announced it's for a new "solo" album....and some people aren't happy.

Jeez....if you had told me a few years ago that this would come to pass I'd have been wetting myself. Would I prefer that Mike & Bruce were on board too and this was a Beach Boys record? Maybe, though mindful that Brian apparently has dozens of songs some earmarked for the BB's and others for solo projects. If these songs he's recording with Dave & Al, and Jeff Beck et al are ones he deems best for non-BB's recordings then so be it.

I'm really excited by an album featuring the above mentioned people plus Vinnie Caulita and Tal Winklefield. Highly talented musicians and all able to bring something fresh and new to Brian's compositions.

And if you'd told me 15 years ago that the rest of the band would be "Brian's long time touring band" I'd have asked you to hand me whatever you were smoking.

Maybe I have this annoying habit of taking a step back and putting things in proportion but I am thrilled to hear this news. It's about the best we could possibly get.

Absinthe Boy (sitting in the garden enjoying mango)

I doubt you are alone my friend.  In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the general public still thinks the C50 ended with Brian Wilson being fired from the band.

No, the press and fans made sure that didn't happen (not to forget a press release by one Mr. Wilson).

I don't know why you can't understand that some of us are Beach Boys fans and not Beach Boy solo fans. We were teased with the possibility of a new Beach Boys "rock n roll" album last summer, and now we know that it's not going to happen. I am very happy for people who are excited about a new Brian Wilson album. Really I am. But why can't you can't extend the same courtesy and try to understand that some of us are disappointed after being told last year that there was going to be a new Beach Boys album? Again, happy for you and everyone else that a new BW solo record is on the way, but some of us aren't nearly as interested in that. I think you should be more understanding. This is a BEACH BOYS message board. It's not brianwilson.com.

Having said all that... I'm still holding out hope for one more BB album! BUT if it doesn't happen, I'll be ok. I DO think they went out on a high note with the tour and TWGMTR, dueling op-eds notwithstanding.

Really? It's that easy? Even though Jon Stebbins reported that the group was given an offer to do another studio album (along with more live work) and Mike declined? Or are you questioning the veracity of Mr. Stebbins information?

It was Mike's decision. He is justifiably enduring the brickbats. Why should Brian, who wanted to continue the C50 configuration -- both in touring and recording albums -- provide cover for him?

As much as I liked TWGMTR and still appreciate Mike's and Bruce's voices, I can see the positives on having a solo album by Brian Wilson rather than envolving the two aforementioned: at least we won't have that ridiculously cheesy nostalgia that seems to be absolutely mandatory whenever we're talking about The Beach Boys. It feels as though there HAD to be something along the lines of Daybreak Over The Ocean on the album. While Brian himself delivers some cheesy songs once in a while (though I'd blame it on his collaborators), I'm still hopeful to listen to a consistent non-embarrasing work. Including Mike Love is including "good vibrations, good times, a lot of fun, beaches", etc.

In terms of publicity, commercial sucess and live presentations there is no doubt that Brian, Mike, Bruce, Al and David sound much better than just Brian and his backing band, or even Brian together with Al and David. I guess I'm biased because I know I won't be able to attend a concert anyway, so it doesn't matter that much to me personally.

David and Alan participating on a Brian Wilson's solo album, that also includes Jeff Beck, is really the best we can get right now. We should be happy not only because the most creative mind of the musical world announced a new project, but also because if anything the C50 massively improved the relations between these three members.

Also, 11th solo album is a little too generous. How about --

Fifth solo album of original material. Along with three covers records, two live albums, one collaboration, one soundtrack, and one revival of a lost 60s classic.

Yes, and he can thus focus on to correcting your horrible grammar.

Prof +1.

Generous, maybe - but factually correct. ;) It's going to be his 11th solo release. And if BW had at one point in the 00s released original Love You demos under his own name it would even be his 12th solo release. :smokin

Not cover. Brian just wrote total bullsh!t in his press release which is evident, plain and simple. And it is that press release that really got the ball rolling because everyone jumped on it and made it an ugly ending.

Maybe English isn't Alan's primary language. Ever think of that? Give the guy a break, you guys.  Geez.

But you and your mate AGD have been arguing that Mike's band "is the Beach Boys".  You can't have it both ways.

Agreed! Removing the Beach Boys name from the product generally means that the work can function independently of that brand. Anything new associated with the Beach Boys (with rare exception of Life Suite) has been a dumbed down nostalgia fest of the 80's. Better to keep it real and accept that the Beach Boys had a good, long run but now finally it has come to pass.

Mike had every authority to fire Brian, Al and David, he holds the license, and he did. How ever you want to couch it, the three were canned. Al has wanted back in the band for years and Mike hasn't allowed it till the C50. Brian, in essence,  wanted the band reformed,  by continuing to make albums and tour indefinetly.

And with a new album and DBA tour, this is going to get rehashed in the press yet again.

The crux of the situation is Mike is the only one who can use the name right now without a extensive legal battle or compromise with Mike. It looked like a democratic vote in 1998, but is nowhere near it in 2013.

I don't get why people are upset Mike (and Bruce) aren't involved in Brian's new project just so it can be labeled a "new Beach Boys" album. Mike's two creative contribuations on TWGMTR aren't exactly held in very high regard, and a lot of people seem to outright hate Bruce (Can we please drop the infantile "Teabag Bruce"/"Tea Party Bruce" nickname?).

Obviously, it would be ideal to have Mike's voice in the mix, as it is a necessary part of the BB's classic sound, but having Al on board--especially considering his voice has held up better than anyone in the group--makes it Beach Boys-y enough for me. I even hope David gets some vocals on the new record. He sounds fantastic on "Getcha Back", and his voice has a bit of a Dennis quality to it. And I'm sure someone in Brian's band is capable of handling Mike's bass parts. Having 3/5 of the original group involved, with Brian guiding the ship, is most important to me.

Nay - nay! I disagree.  It wasn't "Mike's tour" as facts evolved.  The C50 wasn't touring under the Touring Band banner.  And BRI who is the parent identity of the corporation, named Mike as designee of the license.  An old Larry King show with  Brian and Melinda interview supports that.  It appears they were different structures. And the Touring Band returned to "status quo ante" post C50.

There are 4 votes on the BRI board.  Brian, Mike, Al, and Carl's estate, from what I've read.  It was a pre-arranged tour, with a beginning and end. 

To quote Brian and disprove AGDs contention, and yours, "After all, we are the real Beach Boys". Which is saying the Mike/Bruce show isn't.

I could post dozens of links documenting Mike sacking Brain, butI will quote just one. The truth is if Mike hadn't dumped the other three, we would have a new BB album and tour this summer.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2208817/Youre-fired-Three-Beach-Boys-founding-members-dumped-bands-frontman-Mike-Love.html

No, I accept no such thing. All I know is we can look forward to a JT produced album of Jeff F vocals, perhaps poor Dave playing some poorly produced licks (Dave was done a disservice on BIM  and elsewhere on Radio except for the title and last songs, where he was allowed to ply his art best) drowned out by 5 guitars from JT old tapes, and with auto-tuned Al, plus lots of songs about emotion and just trying to get through: yawn yawn.  I am BB or nothing. I want Al and Dave on vocals and guitars both, Bruce on piano and vocals, Mike and Brian writing meaningful songs alone together, and the 5 BB themselves, not special guests "woodshedding."

:h5 :h5 :h5 :h5 :h5 :h5 :happydance :happydance :happydance :happydance :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot

Good enough for you perhaps and you are entitled to your opinion but that doesn't make it universally good enough period.

2nd point: I agree Brian's band is great at aping the "Beach Boys" sound but they are not "The Beach Boys" and it is clear as day (again subjectivity on my part) when you listen to both side by side which sounds better.  I'm glad that Brian has such a wonderful support system that backs him up onstage but to me at least they will never be The Beach Boys no matter how well they master the various vocal parts to the songs.

The real problem is that M&B won't respect BW's creative vision and want their dumbed down "nostalgia, which is really a bastardized version of the early 1960s BW sound. I would love BBs albums where M&B know their role and leave the album making to BW.

Just my opinion but there is nothing wrong with nostalgia.  In fact it's part of The Beach Boys appeal.  The general public expects at least a couple of songs to sound like early 1960s BB records complete with images of surfboards and hot rods.  I have no problem with that and if the songs are solid or at the very least catchy, I actually enjoy that aspect of Beach Boys albums.  What makes it even better is you get the stark contrast from that type of material juxtaposed against the introspective "Brian Wilson is going to take your breath away with this song" material.  The combination of both styles is what to me has always made The Beach Boys so enjoyable as a band.

Come on. You are better than this. Aren't you?  ;)

The facts remain. Mike ended the C50 shows. Brian and Al and Dave wanted to continue. Mike did not. He turned down more full band shows. He turned down another album. He turned down his cousin and friends. He kept touring as the Beach Boys and they did not. (If it looks like a firing and feels like a firing ...)

Now, no one in the group is actively fighting him on that these days, although they tried a bit of public pressure at the time. As pointed out, everyone profits from Mike's work, including Al and Brian. But just because it's accepted doesn't mean it's ideal, and doesn't mean that we aren't losing something.

Brian and his camp threw their weight around for the tour and the album. The album was his idea, after all. He wanted his guys as backing musicians. He wanted to tour his way. All of this is true. But if Brian Wilson is what you want, you have to play ball with him. Might it have benefited his cause later to drive a softer bargain? Perhaps.

But Brian made compromises, too. He accepted Mike's subpar lyrics for several songs on the album, and included an all-Mike tune. He accepted Mike's guys into the band, and gave Mike de facto control over the set list.

So when things break down, the ultimate question is this. Who do you blame? The somewhat lazy, mentally ill mastermind who wants to continue, but on his own terms, or the hard-charging yet unsympathetic frontman, who takes refuge in legal language and only allows for the possibility of a studio reunion under conditions that haven't happened for decades.

I am looking forward to the album because I genuinely enjoy Brian's solo work. But it's sad to lose the full group. They are more than the sum of their parts. Yet it's clear that at a certain level, the group is intrinsically unstable.

The two style do make a good combo in a listening experience, but at this point Mike's "nostalgia" is so cynical and crass, it does not make a good listening experience with his words being so hollow. Mike may have a good song or two left in him, but he won't write it as "nostalgia" is easy to do and fits the "brand" better in his eyes.

Despite your claim to know Brian's wishes, you are self admittedly no longer in contact with Brian and his people. You JM, Nickos claim Brian doesn't care about being a Beach Boy completely ignores Brian's most recent public statements on the issue. Like this one 7 months ago, "I'm disappointed and can't understand why Love doesn't want to tour with Al, David and me. We are out here having so much fun. After all, we are the real Beach Boys".

Geez, you yourself just said that was seven months OLD. Hardly recent. And earlier you linked to the Daily Mail, fer Chrissake… assume you're not a resident of the State of Britland? The Mail is a pile of shite, purveyor of lies and adjectives. Possibly worse than the Sun and the NoW ever were.  If that's where you get your hard news facts, good luck to you.

It ain't us saying that Mike and Bruce are the BBs, it's BRI. We accept there's not a lot we can do about that (unless you're up for a Cohen-style boycott of all BRI product until Mike surrenders his licence…  :lol ).

Y'know, it would have been lovely (albeit prone to flop) if the reunion had gone on indefinitely but it didn't. The 2012 Beach Boys ended as was planned, the licensed torch bearers continued in their stead, the individuals concerned started to get on with their lives as they had before.

Only a few fans thought that they could close their eyes, wish hard, and will it into being otherwise.  I mighta been one for a while but reality set in.

There's a Cohen-like stubborness developing here which has me edgy, uncomfortable and uneasy.

NURSE?

Forgetting all the soap opera bull merda, I'm really excited for this album.

Personally, I'd rather an album of Brian at piano sketching the songs before all the chefs in the kitchen start adding their own ingredients, but regardless- I'm really excited.

Rock On Mr. Wilson!  :rock

 :beer  (for you!)

Hilarious Post!    :lol

You nailed it!   

Except that this is demonstrably untrue. The plans were already changed once, to add the spate of overseas dates. And three of the five wanted to extend the reunion. Therefore, however it might be spun, the reunion did not end "as planned." It ended in dissension.

It was two different business concepts that combined for a set period (later extended) and a definite plan.

How the fuck did this turn into another stupid argument thread?  Brian Wilson has a new album coming out, he's probably moved on from all of this nonsense, shut up and enjoy the music.

Except that the set period was up to the principals to define. Al and Brian and Dave wanted to extend that period, and had offers on the table to do so. Mike did not. He was not a prisoner to any contract. He helped write the dang thing. When it suited his purposes, he agreed to extend it. When it didn't, he didn't.

I'm not saying there is anything objectively wrong about this. What happened happened. But there is for some reason a bizarre fixation among many here in denying what actually happened, which is that three-fifths of the reunited Beach Boys -- including Brian Wilson -- wanted to keep the band together.

Mike Love didn't. Brian and Al and Dave were sent packing. That's the reality. Deal with it.

Okay, so it was granted an extension, which enabled myself and a few others here to witness, on Sept 28, what is likely to go down as the last ever concert by a version of The Beach Boys we all thought we'd never see on stage together. Very much appreciated!

Doesn't mean the five have to lash themselves to the wagon for eternity. It's over.


Y'right!

Brian and Mike do not write press statements, they both got bad advice from those who do. I am glad more people realize that here than I thought, but honestly do any of you really think Brian set down feverishly at the keyboard and wrote the L.A. Times??? If the general public and press buy it, they are naïve. On a general press story about something you know about (not just Beach Boys, ANY interest of yours), how often are the details misrepresented? This isn't a script, it's showbiz, and the Beach Boys aren't media savvy. They have been putting out harmful press statements since 1967, it doesn't mean anything other than their are a few boneheads in their organizations. Why all the drama when their lives are whacky enough, and a little secret-they don't care anymore about mine month old press snafu's.

Because there are some here who still don't get it. Mike is a entertainer, Brian is a musician/studio guy but still reluctant performer. That is why we get new BW material rather than Beach Boys albums.

There may have been a "modification" to the C50 tour agreement, but that probably did not change the result. Only two of the "three" you mention have voting rights at BRI.  So it is grossly misleading.  Brian, Mike, Al and Carl's estate.  Four votes as I understand. It is very clear. BRI drives this.  

Except that Brian wanted to continue performing with the reunited group.


Did I say that Dave had a vote? Did I ever even suggest that? If you look back at my posts, I've made it perfectly clear that I know there are four votes in BRI. Which is why the C50 shows ended when they did -- Mike and Carl's estate are able to prevail over Brian and Al.

I've never once said that Mike did anything incorrect legally. In fact, he adhered scrupulously to all negotiated agreements. My point is that simply, because he didn't want the C50 tour to continue, that it ended. That is what happened, and it's borne out by insider accounts.

I don't understand why this keeps needing to be repeated. A business plan was put in place for 2012. Only 2012!

If Mike had said he wanted to keep the C50 going into 2013 and Brian had said "Can't do as I'm recording my new solo album" would we still get the same bitching?

No, because he would be working on a solo project. As far as I know, Mike did not end the reunion to tour under his own name or record a solo album.

And again, to restate the obvious, the business plan was created by the Boys, and could have been revised by them if Mike were amenable. Which he was not.

...sssnnnooorrre...

Indeed. Jeff Beck! And Brian Wilson!

Here's a Q and A with Jeff B., which was apparently moderated by Jeff F.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NFUKfXdcZM

No, and that doesn't diminish his (David's) talent, but making a statement such as three v. two represents that that is where the decision is made.  Not the "principals" as they were referred to by Live Nation.  But "principals" does not equate BRI voting members. And those who aren't familiar (mostly the very misled general public ) would think that this is so.  (My own kids asked me if Brian was fired, and I had to undo the damage done by those far-flung media reports.)

They answer to a higher authority.  And that is an oversimplification.  And, I'm happy to see that you concede that Mike adhered scrupulously to the negotiated agreements.  

Mike carved out about nine months to celebrate the event, sandwiched between commitments before and after the scheduled events.  And, from all observations, the Touring Band is doing very well and selling seats. Some shows are sold out.  And, he takes the music where it could not go given the constraints of the venues and the way they only went to the big cities.  

... and I can trump you two with articles stating that Mike didn't and doesn't have the power to fire anyone - Mike & Brian's exchange of letters in the LA Times last fall. Mike said he can't, and a few days later Brian concurred. Further, in an interview circa 2006, Brian observed "well, Mike & Bruce are The Beach Boys... and Alan is Alan Jardine... but I'm Brian Wilson !". If I were of an antagonistic frame of mind, I could muse that, by their selfish desire to extend the tour a second time, and ignoring that Mike had dates set in stone that were known to them in mid-summer, in fact it was Brian et al who brought it all to a shuddering halt.

I'm joking, of course, but at least my facts are accurate. One more time, for those hard of comprehending: no-one fired anyone.


Ah, now, there was a time when putting words into my mouth that I've never uttered, or even implied, would have resulted is a righteous - and entirely deserved - tongue lashing, but now... well, I'll just smile and shake my head sadly that the best you can do to counter my statement is concoct an untruth. For shame... for shame.  :-D

    
Brian Wilson's 11th solo album announced today

  :tm :banana :banana :woot :woot :woot :woot :ohyeah :thumbsup :rock :rock :tm

I knew if I stayed away from here for a week something would break.  ;D

I'm going to try to compartmentalize everything I feel on this issue into one succinct posting.  First and foremost I really did enjoy the C50 last year when The Beach Boys were a living, breathing entity in the world of pop music.  There isn't much I enjoy about pop music today and while I'm aware there are some decent acts buried under all the sludge given that music isn't necessarily affordable as it once was and I prefer hard copy as oppose to just "pulling mp3s", I mainly stick to the small handful of the bands I enjoy listening to.  So to have one of those bands release new product and tour last year was pretty cool at least I thought.

The fact that the members of The Beach Boys essentially reverted to what they were prior to the C50 at the end of the tour?  Um, I was disappointed to say the least but I understood it.  I've tried my best not to villainize anyone, I really have because I do understand Mike Love's position even if I don't necessarily agree with it myself.  One thing I do resent however and this is where some degree of anger comes in is I think there are a number of Beach Boys fans who were snookered in last year.  The Beach Boys gave a number of interviews last year where they were asked point blank about some of their past tiffs and hard feelings towards one another and essentially responded to these questions with a great deal of "that stuff is all in the past and we're playing happy families" now type responses.  It seemed they went out of their way to promote a great deal of good will publicly between all of the members of the group throughout the duration of the C50.  

Now I understand that it was important both to move TWGMTR and tickets to the C50 tour but at the end of the journey to have the group essentially revert back to being a bunch of sniping and backbiting individuals really was a true letdown and left me with a feeling in my stomach that didn't feel all that great.  Yeah I know that Al Jardine and David Marks are working with Brian Wilson on his new solo album but to me the main rift for years that hovered over the band had little to do with the relationship between Brian Wilson and Al Jardine and more to do with Wilson/Jardine vs. Camp Mike Love.  So at the end of the day to have Brian/Al/Dave over here on this side of the room and Love/Johnston on the other, well lets just say in the grand scheme of things from my vantage point little has changed.

Now in regards to this new solo record by Brian Wilson.  I can't say I'm excited for it but I'm not trying to put it down either.  First off since the press release that came out this week was merely an announcement that he's "working on the record" rather than the record is imminent, I'm assuming we are at least a decent way away from it appearing in shops where we can purchase it and see what it's all about for ourselves.  Also with the exception of a few bands I listen to, I'll likely do what I always do in regards to new releases which is decide whether or not I pick up this new solo album once we get closer to the release date and I've gotten to hear a couple of the tracks through whatever Brian Wilson releases through his website or on YouTube or whatever.  I'll also take the reviews of my fellow SSMB members into account.  If we start getting a copious amount of posts saying that the record is a must avoid rather than a must buy, I'll likely put my money towards something else.  But like I said all of this is pure speculation at this point in regards to how I'll feel about a project that is probably five-six months away from finding it's way into shops.

I am 99.9% sure I am going to purchase MIC.  My Beach Boys GV box set is a tattered mess after all these years and instead of ordering a new copy of that off of Amazon, I'll simply purchase MIC when it comes out and allow it to "replace" GV in my collection.  I don't plan on purchasing any tickets to either M&B or BAD this summer basically because I don't consider M&B to be "The Beach Boys" and I've seen Brian Wilson numerous times in concert before.  I'll admit that probably about 10% of the reason why I'm not as gung-ho about dropping money on Beach Boys-related concerts this summer is the aforementioned snookering but I'm not one to hold long grudges and I'm sure at some point in the possible near future I will go see Brian Wilson in concert again.

But beyond that it's just very hard for me to get really excited about any announcement about what these guys are doing right now in their solo careers.  It just feels like for me as if there is a dark cloud that is hovering over anything that has to do with the individual members of this group right now, including Brian and that is just the way it is right now.  I don't hate anybody, I don't blame anybody for feeling differently, I have no desire to harp on this any further unless approached or something genuinely piques my interest.  I've said what I needed to say and now I'll take pause and pass the forum over to those who still have more to say.

I have a source........... YOU.............. might want to review your PM out box.

Yes!  And wouldn't it be just lovely if folks could take their pissing matches to the land of private messaging, and we could get back to the topic at hand? 

I mean, I know there's not much to say about the new album until we get more info, and I get that this was born of the topic - folks discussing the possibility of how a Brian Wilson could have been a Beach Boys album, and such - but I mean, just pages, upon pages of the same couple of people, holding steadfast to their own opinion, restating their views over and over again, trying to change the mind's of other people who are just as convinced that they are right.

"Boring, Sidney.  Boring"

C50 was great but in reality The Beach Boys died with Carl Wilson - the rest is academic BS.  Glad that Brian, Al, and David are touring and BW is releasing a solo LP.  I've been hanging around this for 40 years and anything is better than nothing.  Be happy with what you get.

Good idea, will do!

Joe Thomas! Woo hoo! More robo-Brian!

I really, really tried but the "quality" of that made it unlistenable.   :(

Outstanding. :bow

Nice of you to misquote me there. Very classy.  :lol

Focusing on this album, I really hope that Al will not just make a token appearance on 1 song. I also trust that the guests will be better utilized than they were on GIOMH.

Edit: deleted as redundant. I should have read through before posting.

We weren't teased....we assumed....at least some of us did.

After the ultimately false assumption that Brian was working on a Beach Boys record you are disappointed. But nobody "in the know" ever said this was a Beach Boys record. You assumed it was.

If Joe Thomas speaks even a grain of truth, Brian has a lot of songs on tape/disc in some state of partial completion. Brian has clearly indicated that some are for the Beach Boys and some are for "solo" projects.

Brian has decided to do an album with some of those non-BB songs he's written. Am I upset? No.

Does this mean there will never and can never be another BB record? Of course it doesn't. Brian has stated that he would still like to make another BB's album and, health of everyone permitting, I would bet he intends so to do. It might be 2013, 2014 or 2015. It might be the oft-mentioned "rock n roll" record or it might be something else.

But ask me if I am happy that Jeff Beck, Tal Winklefield, Vinnie Cauliuta, Al, Dave and Brian are recording? **** yes I am.

I am fully aware this isn't a Brian board. I'd be happy to hear that Mike Love was making a solo record with equally talented and interesting musicians as Beck, Winkelfield and Cauliuta.

Like you I hold out hope for a new Beach Boys record....but in the meantime I am not disappointed that Brian is making a new solo album.

Good call. In theory, he's working with a fantastic line-up of musicians, probably the best ever in his solo career. Yours truly is hoping that the Buddy Love factor won't have too much impact, production-wise.

And if Brian had said "Can't do as I'm recording my new solo album" and Mike had said "OK, I'm going to tour with Bruce until you're done."?

I think it is a fact that it was Mike who pulled the plug on the reunion. I'm unhappy with that like most here are. But I just can't understand why some people on this board get angry at those who don't villainize Mike for that. I mean, there's this point for instance:


Didn't Mike agree to have more members of Brian's band than of his own in the C50 touring group? That left the others basically out of work.


You're laying words in their mouth. That's not a good thing. Reminds me when I was 13 or so when a guy who didn't like me said to me "You like Rick Astley, don't you?" Are you 13 years old, Oregon?


Maybe Mike explained that to Brian in the meantime? ;D No, wait, let's not get back in the press release issue...



Don't be too sure about that... ::)



Wasn't it rather that Brian commissioned Mike to write lyrics like that? It certainly wasn't like "OK Mike, if you agree that we tour together, I'll leave those crappy lyrics on the album", I assume. I have no idea if Mike has still the ability to pen good non-beach-nostalgia lyrics, but it would be worth a try challenging him to do so. Good thing Mike didn't get in the way with putting Summer's Gone on the album.

You know which Beach Boy I really really hate? Carl, because he pulled the plug on the Paley sessions! No, that's a lie, I don't hate Carl, I'm just unhappy with that decision (if that is a fact at all) as with Mike's not to continue touring and recording with BAD.

Some people just can't grasp that Mike Love decided to end a real Beach Boys tour and return to his Mike and Bruce version effectively leaving Brian Wilson on the streets. Yes I know Brian may have been able to do something legally etc but who really wants that.

The power was in Mike's hands one way or another and poor Al suffered the consequences.

Screw that though, we're getting a new Brian solo album minus any Mike input, sounds good to me.,

Andrew, what makes you think so? I would think if Mike&Bruce retired or took a break and Brian, Al, and David toured as "The Beach Boys", they would be exactly as successful as the other two.

"Three of the founding members of the Beach Boys have been unceremoniously dumped midway through their UK tour. Brian Wilson, Al Jardine and David Marks were informed of the news via a statement issued by Mike Love - the band's frontman and Wilson's cousin - that the tour would be continuing without them."

So there was a UK tour and Mike played the second half of the dates without BAD?
 
"Their places will be filled by Bruce Johnston - a second generation member - and a selection of session musicians."

So Bruce was not part of the first half of the tour?

I think this twists the facts more than a bit. And that's the "proof" you rely on?

The only fact you are 100% right is that if Mike had wanted to go on in the C50 configuration they could have done so and most certainly would have. But it isn't certainly so that he dumped them and they are now lying helplessly out there on the street. He unfortunately decided not to tour with them anymore, kind of like Brian decided not to tour with them in 1965. Granted: unfortunately Mike uses the Beach Boys' name, unlike Brian in 1965.

I don't see those three either staying together too long (vide. the Pet Sounds 40th anniversary tour, and if you're not up to speed on exactly why ACJ stopped touring with Brian, ask around..  ::)  ) or doing about 100 gigs a year. Anyway, academic as 1) it'll never happen and 2) Brian doesn't have a license to tour as The Beach Boys.

I felt that way too when Mike Love first announced that the C50 wasn't going to continue.  There were a lot of posts on here in the vein of "Mike Love, that jerk really knows how to ruin a good time" or "Now Brian is going to feel abandoned".  Look I get where you're coming from and I don't agree with Mike's decision to revert back to the M&B incarnation of "The Beach Boys" instead of continuing with the C50 lineup.  However, the guy does have the right to do what he wants with his life and his career and the more accounts we've gotten about the C50 is that Mike Love didn't really enjoy the experience.  That's not to say he hated the experience but it certainly didn't seem like "every night was a new celebration" for him so to speak.  Some people have attributed this to the fact that there was allegedly some disconnect between Mike Love and Brian's entourage.  Who knows?  

The one thing I hope didn't happen is that this C50 tour didn't spell the end for the relationship be it personal or professional between Wilson and Love.  Remember Joe Thomas mentioned that all of those years that we all assumed they were feuding with each other, that they would actually occasionally take in basketball games together so perhaps the rift wasn't as deep as we thought?  Is it now?  Does Brian Wilson deeply resent the fact that he's not out on the road with M&B?  He seems to be moving on well with his life and career and certainly isn't crying into any pillows.  Still one could make an argument that there were bitter seeds sown last fall between all members of the group and they wouldn't be wrong for feeling that way given some of the news that has come out particularly from Camp Wilson since last fall.  

Look if you are a fan of conspiracy theories or reading the tea leaves or however you want to put that, there isn't much right now to get you excited if you are still championing the C50 lineup.  The latest example would be only days after we were all speculating that possibly The Beach Boys were working on a new record, Brian Wilson's website squashed that rumor and revealed that Brian is working on a new solo record inclusive of Al Jardine and David Marks but not the others.  I don't think that is a coincidence as no doubt this board is read by the same people who facilitated that announcement on Brian's website.  The clear message being: Brian Wilson has moved on from the C50, there is no more C50 related plans at the moment and here is what he's working on right now.  I guess if you are a champion of the C50 lineup, the only thing you can hang your hat on at the moment is Brian Wilson's plans change with the weather and the rest of the group hasn't necessarily (to my knowledge) squashed the idea of ever working together again as an inclusive unit period.

John Mill - there seems to be a lot of good analysis in your posts.  This reminds me a lot of history when
Gorbachev met with Pope John Paul II in 1989 behind closed doors, when the Pope kicked out all the interpreters, and what I would call "diplomatic hangers-on," showing a sort of stealth that is usually not seen in diplomacy. He spoke about 12 languages, certainly Russian, so he did not require an interpreter.  

And, an insistence in galvanizing a one-on-one rapport with each other, looking eye-to-eye, and yet an "commonality of essence" as Eastern Europeans looking to get to a common ground.  They had to find that they had more to gain than lose in opening the door to communication, "without all the hangers-on and the interpreters." And, history, has benefitted from that holy or unholy alliance, face-to-face.  

Selfishly, ( or not) I look at Brian and Mike as the historic giants of inspiration, whether one composes, and the other verbalizes concepts, that people can understand and embrace.  And, look upon other lyricists (especially non BB's) as "independent contractors" (in a legal context) working on special projects (many with whom we've seen with agendas (Landy) ) but who have not had the BB vision and loyalty that the Mike and Brian dynamic duo embodied.  And, whether they ever collaborate in unison remains to be seen, but it will never be denied, historically, that only "Brian and Mike" created and carved out this essence and dream which became our Boys.  They have a "language all their own" - which I would imagine is still there, and is a place for those two guys to work out, that goes back to childhood.  

One can't "hire or aspire" to that level to that "synergy of creativity" they grew as between them as young people.  Only, when those guys who "made music history" (as Gorbachev and Karol Wojtila did in 1989)  get in the room "without the interpreters." And, blood is still thicker than water. They have that great Cal Saga band with their kids and opportunities for such an event/s.

They've both developed first-rate bands, to their great credit. (Al, too!)  And, if anything, my impression was that their synergy among them individually, was on fire and as between them; and, as two bands, they brought out the best in one another, and the performances are proof enough. Both great bands!

JMHO - as always  ;)

I'm excited for any new Brian Wilson music.  This album sounds like it'll be quite different, though, doesn't it?  I mean Don Was and Jim Keltner doing some track(s)...Jeff Beck, Tal Wilkenfeld, and Vinnie Colaiuta doing some track(s)...Al Jardine and David Marks doing some track(s).  I'm excited.  Keltner is one of my favorite drummers, and Colaiuta is incredible, but how different their playing styles are!  Jeff Beck is perhaps the only '60s 'guitar god' who has continued to innovate and explore new avenues for his entire career, and I love his playing, but how different his style is to David Marks' (although I am not familiar with much of David's solo work), not to mention Brian Wilson's.  When I try to imagine what type of music Brain could make with Jeff Beck and Company, my head explodes.  What the hell is this music going to sound like?  How could anyone who is a fan of Brian Wilson's music not be super excited about the possibilities?


P.S.  Anyone who mentions Joe Thomas, Jeff Foskett, or Mike Love in response to my post is missing my point.   

As stated before, beware relying on the Daily Mail for facts! This is the rag that deplores paedophilia yet splatters semi-clad underage celebrity daughters and C-listers all over its website. This is the rag that declares a new ice age if the sun isn't seen for a week then rages about global warming when the weathermen predict a heat wave.

;)

I quite agree John. Toilet paper. I'd personally take anything they print with a very large pinch of proverbial.

Alternatively, you could construct in your head the opposite of what they print and take that as the truth and nothing but.

+ 1  :thumbsup

I am grateful because the man is seventy years old and still keep on keeping on. We do not know how much longer Brian
will be with us. Hard to see him retiring but health issues or anything could move him in that direction.

Music is his work, I know I want to retire from my daily toil soon...just sayin. 

Of course the question is academic whether BAD touring as the BBswould be as succesful as M&B. Still you gave your opinion on it in an earlier post. You chose not to answer my question what makes you think so. And I don't know what happenings on a tour years ago have to do with the academic premises of BAD touring as the BBs nowadays. I agree with you that it won't happen ever but they did manage to do the whole C50 tour together. So what if BAD would do a M&B-like tour as the BBs, don't you think they'd sell as many tickets as the other two guys do?

Point is...how does one measure success?  C50 was over-the-top successful, (and I truly LOVED every show) but, one question might be whether all that drama is necessary and whether the "Touring Band style" of simply bringing the music "to the people" without the drama is so appealing at this point? 

They seem to be so "grounded" in what they've been doing, and yet, are still on a learning curve, (WH) that this way of life, while physically taxing in a way, might be a very fulfilling way to deliver the music, after years of building global contacts up. Aren't we all looking to live life more simply?   ;)

AGD did give an answer. Because there is no way that Brian and the other guys would be willing to go out and play 100 gigs a year.

The very idea of it is preposterous to be honest and if Carl's estate had to choose (it will never happen) then obviously they would go with Mike. Mike has adapted the current BB band into a successful 7 piece band who will perform at any venue if the money is right.

If BAD were to call themselves 'The Beach Boys' then having an 11 or 12 piece band (plus presumably higher travelling costs) would make much less business sense. Does anyone think that Melinda would or should be talking Brian into playing any county fair going anyway?

Mike can do whatever he likes with what he owns. He didn't create the Beach Boys and he damn sure is not the reason the name he tours with can do 300+ dates a year, or whatever that figure is.

If the C50 tour ended with all members deciding to put it to bed for a year then I would have no problem with the M&B band taking up from where they left off. It's the fact that Mike rejected numerous offers for more shows in America and Europe and decided to resume touring with Bruce. That is the number 1 issue at hand. I just don't understand how that course of action is understandable or defensible. It's truly the most greedy decision you can make when in a band.

Shady - Mike has a "license" - that doesn't mean "ownership." Of course, it comes with "conditions of performance." Just general, no specifics.  And, I think he might do around 180 or so for shows.  Andrew (Mr. Doe) knows better. And with some exactitude.  And, you may not like Mike, but he is a "de facto" creator.   That's back to "Surfin'" - in the fall of 1961.  Brian-Mike. Like it or not. We don't get to rewrite history.  ;)

Andrew said earlier that there were shows "in stone" and I seem to recall that they played a date the day following the last C50.  How can anyone argue with the work ethic? And it is a great band.  They play a great show, and get offers to play elsewhere.  That is how it works.  If they were a terrible band, they wouldn't be getting offers of more work.

I love your passion for the music.  But, seriously, Mike is 25% of the vote, as I've read.  Last time I checked that was not a controlling percentage. And, I'm terrible at Math!  :lol

Doing 100 shows a year is now the definition of success? I guess the Rolling Stones 30 date '50 and Counting" and McCartney's 25 date "Out There" tours are doomed to be dismal failures. Someone needs to tell those losers they need to add 70 more dates, preferably in casinos.

Ok, I will quote you. You say there is no logical reason........ I gave you Brian's quote of 7 months ago.

I would say, let's wait and see what Brian says in interviews in support of his new album and tour. You know he is going to be asked about it.

I get what you're saying, at this stage I'm aware of all the voting etc.

Legal crap aside (we've seen enough of that in the Beach Boys world) I'm talking on a more human level. Mike's rejection of dates and how he handled it was not right IMO. All the guys wanted to go on minus Mike (Bruce goes where Mike goes). Brian and Al both felt wronged, a media storm ensued, not a classy end to a reunion tour in my view.

I appreciate what Mike did in the 60's and most of the 70's don't get me wrong but he's not necessarily the one I want out there flying The Beach Boys flag. I like that the Mike and Bruce show have some supports on this board, I don't don't personally appreciate that incarnation myself so maybe I'm biased. I'm anti the sea world touring Beach Boys, I've stated before the name deserves better but that horse has long since been beaten  ;D

I'm not sure why Capitol Records wants to release a new Brian Wilson solo album. The Beach Boys reunion albums didn't even sell that well with the Beach Boys name, why do they think a Brian album would sell that well? Yes, the BB reunion did go to Number 3, but it was a soft number 3 with a lot of heavy discounting (as in $5 downloads and $10 CD's). Even with the discounts, I doubt it sold that many copies when all was said and done.

I have no interested in hearing another Brian solo CD. He has star guests on this one, but so did GIOMH. I'm not a fan of GIOMH. Brian's vocals are getting rougher as the years go by. Joe Thomas is co-writing/producing. I'm tired of Joe Thomas. I don't want to see that man's name next to anything. Though I'm not sure that's the deal-breaker. I guess I have Brian Wilson fatigue. It was fun when he came back many  years ago and it was a rare treat. At this point, meh, at least as far as new material goes. If Brian can't write and produce by himself anymore, I'm not sure what the point it.  He at least needs to find someone different than Joe Thomas to work with. Been there, done that.

How very unclassy of you Nicko. Aren't you better than this? I thought you were a musician, creative type? Instead, you continue to champion a guy who has turned one of the greatest, creative rock bands of all time into a traveling oldies show.

And before someone gives me sh% t for not going PM, Nicko refuses to do PMs and just sends his pot shots in threads. Classy huh!


*******************

As to Mike's license to tour as the Beach Boys, nobody has a clue what the provisions actually say. All we know is that the other BRI parties get a %. Somebody suggested Mike has it in perpitude. Who knows? I guess nobody on this board. Too bad we don't have a self proclaimed BB scholar/insider who posts all the time. Wait, we do. Mr. Stebbins, can't you shed some light on the terms of the license?

Well done but you know very well that you are talking about something completely different there.

I have said there is no logical reason why Brian would want to take The Beach Boys name and tour without Mike and Bruce.

You are talking about quotes made 7 months ago about the C50 tour continuing which is a completely different matter.

Shady - fans are fans, whether at the grand Beacon Theater, a palace in London, or Sea World. The demographic is all over the place. Kids, seniors who don't or can't drive at night, and the rest in between.  Brian has done casinos as well.  And not-so-fancy places as well.   Who cares? He sings, or they sing and "all is right with the world."  Mike caters to the demographic.  I love it.  People used to fly "across the pond" regularly to Disney World to see them.  That is not a bad thing.  Disney has a resort dedicated to "Music" and the Beach Boys photos were always prominently displayed.  Even before Carl's death.

And the history suggests, that unfortunately, for all the great lobbying and pushing old Murry did to get them on the map, the credits for lyrics had to be resolved.  That was old time Hollywood in a sense.  Lots of child stars had their parents or managers "make off with the dough, because they could." Now, protections are in place to eliminate that.  

Check out the YouTube of Sea World.  I have it on my streamer - BBTV!  :lol  

K, understood. Gotcha.

No pot shots at all. You know that you are intentionally misquoting people in this thread and posting things that are inaccurate.

The most baffling thing of all is that you have said that you wouldn't want Brian touring as The Beach Boys so I've no idea why you wanted to take up space on the board with an idea that you don't want and which there has never been any remote indication will happen.

Very amusing again but something tells me that a Beach Boys group that consisted of only Brian, David and Al would not be playing the arenas and stadiums that McCartney and The Stones can.

There is no logical reason why Brian would want to take the name in that way as stated before.

As another poster said, the reason why it was understandable is because everybody knew about the October Mike and Bruce gigs. Bruce had said that the tour had to end by a certain point and Al said they were back together for, 'one final time'. All of the members signed up for an anniversary tour. By its very nature an anniversary tour can only go on for so long. I was disappointed when it ended like almost everybody else but hardly surprised. They did all of the things that they'd signed up for and more and then went back to normal as they had originally intended.

As far as the 'greedy' comment. Of course The Beach Boys are about greed. Their decision to get back together last year was a business one. Brian's (or Melinda's) decision to grant Mike a license (and they would have granted Al a license if he'd paid enough) was about money of course. They are businessmen.

You seem to have a distinct ability to intermix different arguments.The point was repeatedly made that M/B are highly successful because they do over 100 shows a year. My point is, you can do 30 shows and be successful.

If the Stones were only doing 30 club shows, they'd get heaps of praise! The BBs can't do stadiums in any configuration and that's not only Mike's fault. That goes way back to Carl's time. Another subject anyway.

What I take issue with are people posting what Brian thinks or wants. I keep saying my thoughts are wild speculation.
We don't know if Brian would take the BB name if he could. We don't know if he could. My main points are:

1) If Brian, Al and David did tour as the BBs, the shows they did do would draw well. Yes, Brian would not do 100 shows a year, agree.  Probabky not even 50. Do the numbers/BRI distribution numbers make it a no go? Nobody here really knows. We do know the C50 grossed in excess of $20 million.

2) It seems, from what I read, that Brian wanted to do another BB album, a rock and roll album, and wanted to do more shows with the other 4 BBs. It bums me the new album could havee easily been a BB album. Forgive me for living in the past but this is the 'what if' board. What if Brian had finished Smile, what if Dennis hadn't died, what if the BB had done Monterey.........

As to the premise DBA won't last, Al got unhappy, got unwanted and left Brian's tour because he wasn't getting paid. He made it all the way thru the C50 tour, as did David, and I think they  all got paid. Apparently, it went so well that they are doing more shows and new music together.

I'm hoping that before Capitol agreed to finance a new Brian Wilson album, they asked for some demos first to see if he had anything worth releasing.   It's tough to get a record deal these days, but maybe Brian can get one based on past glory.  I have no idea.  Any inside info would be appreciated.

I will keep my expectations very low for the new solo album and hope to be surprised as I was with That Lucky Old Sun.

It still befuddles me -- still! -- that Brian's wishes have been given so little consideration here. He wanted to keep touring with the band. He wanted to make more Beach Boys records. But apparently a couple of pre-booked dates at tiny venues mean all of that doesn't matter.


They like it? They think the can move some units? Because it's a prestige artist signing that appeals to the shrinking demographic that still buy high-margin physical copies of music?


Heavy discounting is the norm with virtually all new releases these days. And most albums don't sell millions upon millions of copies anymore. Regardless, a #3 placing is extremely respectable.

If Brian is financing the sessions (and BriMel actually owns the masters), Capitol probably won't be spending very much on this solo record anyway.


Then why post in this thread?


There is precisely one star guest. Jeff Beck. There are a lot of players working on it, and a couple of former Beach Boys, but I would hardly call any of them "star guests." And I don't know what a nine-year-old album has to do with anything here.


Except for the fact that his best recorded solo singing has been on albums released over the last three years.


Again, why bother posting on this thread then? Many of us are interested, especially in new material.

I think it's probably fair to call Brucie a teabagger or tea partier. It's not an insult. Just a description. By the way, he had no problem calling the President of the United States an asshole, simply because he might have to pay more taxes for the all the clapping and waving he does.


I really like your posts most of the time professor, but I gotta ask, what do you like from The Beach Boys? Seems like you got a lot of complaints about TWGMTR, and you don't seem to have much of an interest in the rest of their career, besides praise for Pet Sounds (if I remember correctly). Is it just the fact that having the guys working together makes you feel that all is right in the world? I know personally, that did give me some satisfaction last spring and summer, that The Beach Boys were together and doing their thing.

Also, what's wrong with songs about trying to get through? Seemed like it worked pretty decently on Pet Sounds and a lot of their other great work. Would you prefer Mike bullshitting about how happy he was to be back together like on "Spring Vacation"?


Not true. He sounded better on stuff like "From There To Back Again" and "Summer's Gone" then he has since probably Holland. If anything his vocals have improved in the past 15 years.

And lastly, I'd once again like to get Mr. Andrew Doe's opinion, since he never responded...


Really? It's that easy? Even though Jon Stebbins reported that the group was given an offer to do another studio album (along with more live work) and Mike declined? Or are you questioning the veracity of Mr. Stebbins information?

Yes, poor Brian. His wishes are never considered enough.  I just pulled a muscle with a comically over-wrought eye roll.

What records plans were ruined and what did it have to do with the end of C50? I must have missed that.

You should get that looked at. Muscle strains are the worst.


The full group had offers on the table for more shows -- including Madison Square Garden, I believe -- and another studio album. Mike turned them down, given how important it was to keep playing wineries with Bruce and Christian.

In what way have they been given so little consideration? I think some people are just realistic in that you can't force people into doing what they don't want to do. I can understand people arguing that the BBs name should be retired if they aren't all together (the same argument that has been valid since 1998) but not the feeling that if Brian wanted to make a Beach Boys album that other members should have felt they had to do it in spite of their personal feelings.

Does anybody really know the story why Mike didn't want to do another album? Were there conditions attached with having to tour it? Was he unhappy with TWGMTR?

May I point out, not for the first time, that since the LA Times letter of last October, Brian hasn't said a single word more about the entire situation: for someone who was reportedly close to heartbroken about the situation, he sure got over it fast. Granted, the imminent mini-tour with Alan & David could be construed as a tacit riposte to Mike, but that's just me musing aloud, and as we all know, I know nothing of the mind  and motivation of BDW.  ;D

I'm just putting this in perspective on a fan level. Not necessarily on the BRI corporate level. Ten, 15 years ago, if you had told folks there was a day that all Brian Wilson wanted to do was tour with the Beach Boys and make Beach Boys records, they would be amazed. They would say it was the best of all possible worlds. That day came last year. Brian said these things. And now that the C50 band has fallen apart, folks are somehow acting as though Brian is at fault, or "selfish" (AGD's word) for wanting to be part of it. And that's what I don't understand.

I think it was only a very general proposal, not a concrete offer. And Mike has said he's interested in doing another record, but only if he can collaborate in a locked kitchen cupboard with a a very sweaty Brian Wilson. Eye to eye!


A good point. Actually, an excellent one, and why this batch of back-and-forth is tilling and re-tilling some particularly parched and salted soil.

Which is why I'm letting this one go, in this thread, for now. I do hope to talk about the new BW album, though, especially as we learn more. Jeff Beck! Al and Dave!

Dude, you must be hitting the Kokamo juice really hard. You say I say something but don't quote me. I never said I don't wanna see Brian touring as the BB. Please start paying attention. I said it be hard to imagine thee BBs without Mike out front.  What I did say is 3 trumps 2.

What baffles me is how poor your comprehension is. And that you can't stop taking pot shots "taking space of the board" while denying you do it. Question, are you AGD's nephew?

Instead of debating, you just want to fight. You showed your true self whem you posted my PM to you and got banned. Those are facts you can't pot shot away.

Sure you can but what would be the point for Brian? It would make no business sense at all (losing him a fair amount of money) and it would go against all that he and Melinda have done over the past 15 years in building the 'Brian Wilson' brand. Brian doesn't need the Beach Boys name.  A Brian-led Beach Boys would arguably be a less successful business than the current touring band anyway simply because costs would be so much higher.

I do love the idea that Brian would go out playing gigs and Mike could stay at home while still getting paid though...

Wrong. He knew he wasn't getting paid from day one: that had nothing to do with why he left the tour somewhat precipitately.

He is saving it all for his new book is what I hear. He did say he doubts any more reunions but didn't say why.

I don't think they are trying to compete. As you correctly pointed out, individuals can't compete with the Beach Boys name. My opinion is they had fun on the C50 and wanted to do more together.

Sorry but this is getting ludicrous. I am referring to this comment:


You said that you would prefer neither entity call themselves The Beach Boys which is exactly what I've just quoted you as saying.

Right. My source says otherwise. And he IS an honored guest on here, unlike you. I know your memory is foggy here, I have a couple of PMs from you on this very subject.

Why would the end of the tour prevent another album? Where is this coming from?

Obviously you can't understand what I infer. So I will spell it out. I would prefer that only the 5 tour as the BB. If not that, 3 trumps 2, Brian is the "man" and if anyone should be touring as the BBs, it's him. That is my feeling in the matter. I understand your feeling that Mike's band  is the legitimate BB. That is simply it.

And your ontinuous arguements about my 'wild speculation' and 'my opinions' is, I think, boring to most everyone, including me. So either be a man and use a PM or stop.

Jon Stebbins. He posted on this subject several times.

And it wasn't just the end of a tour. It was the end of the C50 corporate entity, which was a separate concern run by Brian, Mike and Joe Thomas. The name was licensed to it from BRI.

Haha.

You have been good value in this thread I must say. Thanks for misquoting me again btw. I will leave it there but rest assured that you have given both myself and AGD a good laugh in this thread.

Very interesting stuff.

Relevant links:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15371.msg357557.html#msg357557
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15371.msg357607.html#msg357607
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15371.msg357621.html#msg357621

Yeah, I do remember reading them at the time and they are an interesting insight into what went on. They do also reinforce to me just how lucky we are that last year happened at all.

I also think though that the problems that are happening now are down to BRI's decisions back in 1998. If there had been any inkling back then that a reunion may one day occur then the BBs touring name should have been retired until all of the remaining members could participate. But obviously the almighty dollar ruled things.

So you, yet another veiled insult.
I absolutely believe you deserve each other  :lol

Can't help but wonder how this thread would develop if there was an announcement that Brian and Mike were to perform a show together, while Bruce, Al and Dave played elsewhere the same night, as the Beach Boys.

Or if we received a press release confirming that Mike's recent Ocean Way session was indeed vocal overdubs for Brian's next album (there's been nothin officially to state otherwise, after all).

You keep right on thinkin' Butch, that's what you're good at.

How can we deserve each other? He's my uncle remember.  :)

You seem to have the thinnest skin of anyone I've ever known judging by how often you feel insulted.  ;)

Thanks. Still not clear on how ending the tour and even the C50 corporation would prevent a BRI studio album.

That's the best you can do Mr. Doe. I better call BMI, I mean BRI.

I am still waiting for my apology when you repeatedly called me a liar and then you got banned.

I wonder how much longer M&B can tour non-stop. Brian's group is only only doing seven shows this year along with an album. I question why a wealthy man like ML wants to tour to the death in questionable venues.

Unlikely to happen, on account of my terrible memory.  ;D

It will certainly be interesting to learn if there was any contact between Brian and Mike about doing anything together in the studio. Even if it were just Mike contributing some vocals.

The same goes for Bruce of course as I don't think he and Brian have ever had too much of a problem with each other.

- For more money
- To have sex with many beautiful ladies
- Because he has the touring in his blood and genuinely seems to enjoy it

'Cause it's what he enjoys doing most - connecting with a live audience.

And... they don't tour non-stop any more than they do 150-200 shows a year. In 2000 (the last year I have full data for) they did 98 gigs and didn't play at all in January & November, and barely in February (2), March (2),  April (4), May (5) and October (6).

Key word: connecting.  >:D

Uncle or Father figure. I couldn't be thin skined as I've patiently answered all your questions about my opinions. For some reason you have to act out in posts instead of going to PM. Says something about you.

Be happy to come see you in person or give you my address and we can hash out our differences in person. I am quite the friendly guy., love to hear some of your new tunes

Talk about turning down touring with Brian for all the wrong reasons. If money and sex are more important than the group's legacy and touring with the BBs family, Mike is a truly sad individual.

Touche. Now that was AGD standard!

I don't think the group's legacy matters to any of them that much really. As mentioned earlier, Brian and his management would have been happy in 1998 for Mike and Al to have been touring with separate bands using The Beach Boys name as long as they were being paid enough. It is a business.

I think Mike would rather be touring with his actual family (Christian) than the BBs family as you put it.

I don't think those were the only reasons for not touring with Brian anyway. Mike had compromised a lot for the C50 tour (probably more than any of us would have expected beforehand) and it is not hard to imagine him getting tired of it as Jon Stebbins stated at the time.

Eh. That's going a bit far. They have released boxed sets like TSS, and Brian did go ahead and finish Smile. The did C50 itself. There is definitely recognition there that they have a body of work to be proud of. I do think that the status quo from Carl's death till now (with the exception of the reunion shows) is basically an accommodation that allows everyone to do the most of what they like with the least interference from the others. And I'm sure they all feel their current work pays tribute to that legacy, in one form or another.

C'mon you guys, cut the bullshit, wouldja?

My God, this subject has been milked for all its worth anyway. We all know about why the C50 tour ended and those who keep harping about it just don't want to admit the real reasons for it and are in denial. Everybody second-guesses the hell outta everything to do with this. This fuckin' subject has been done to death for a year and every time I come back here day after day I see that the same ol' thing has resurfaced with the same people and same bullshit and nobody's convincing anybody anyway, so call it a tie, eh? It's really gettin' old, and we need to find something else to talk about. There's gotta be something! Serious!

I think each one of us should start a thread as far way from the subject of the demise of the C50 tour and why each band is going its own way and doing its own album or whatever. It's been discussed ad nauseum from every possible angle and variable. It's fuckin' been done to death and its boring as hell and all it does is start the same fuckin' arguments over and over.

Oh, sure they are proud of the work that they've done but they are also a business at the same time. I think they are more concerned with the here and now than they are the future when they are all gone. I really don't think it would have entered Mike's head for a moment to think, 'I don't want to continue with the C50 tour but as it will benefit the group's legacy maybe I should just like it and lump it'.

Amen- I just think it's a miracle to be getting another BW solo album.

Why are you people fighting the same battle about Mike vs. Brian and the C50 shows being over, taking up 75% of this thread, then saying posters who don't think Brian is a genius who's gonna knock it out of the park with yet another solo record, aren't entitled to an opinion? If Brian is still so good, why is he so dependent on Joe Thomas to write (excuse me, co-write) his songs and to produce them? If he sings so well, why does he use so much Autotune and other sweetenng?

I know one thing.... even though his albums are tarnished by people trying to make a BW record sound like a BW record, there is still that timbre in his voice that somehow captures youth, innocence, humor, and honesty that keeps me buying most of his records...most not all. (I can't bring myself to buy GIOMYH because I can't stand E John...)

Far from perfect, I really like his voice....no matter what stage in his life...

The thing is I'm not sure if there really is right now.  There isn't much information out there about anything Beach Boys or Brian Wilson related at the moment although several different projects are certainly on the horizon from the BAD tour to the MIC box set to Brian's new solo record.  As of 6/8/13 though the most recent event worth talking about is the C50 tour of last summer and the absolute firestorm that erupted from the decision not to go forward last fall.  To summarize if there was something else worth talking about that also hasn't been brought up a million times already we'd be talking about it.

We've dissected SMiLE.  Heck we've dissected every Beach Boys album.  Brian isn't touring at the moment.  The M&B concerts remain somewhat of a polarizing topic of discussion.  Nobody (aside from perhaps The Prof) has any idea what MIC will contain which leaves discussion about that box set to rampant speculation and the ever present wish lists.  We've already burned the 2CD C50 Live Album in effigy only for some forum members to realize it isn't that bad.  Heck I even suggested a group board game a few weeks back!  As I said we're really "Busy Doin' Nothin"" at the moment here at the SSMB in terms of hot topic conversations.   At least the C50 debate is something that many members seem to be passionate about although personally I don't have anything new myself to add to the topic.

Oh John you are right. I read this everyday because I am so broken-hearted, and I keep hoping for a "no, Mike changed his mind: he and Bruce are back in the studio. . ." So silly. I myself will go silent until my particular critical powers are summoned for MIC.

Well, this is what I'm talking about. For almost one (1) year now this subject has been on an endless merry-go-round and you guys are still arguing about the ifs ands and butts about it. IT'S DONE!

The subject of Smile is funny. When that box came out, everybody and their brother and all the Smile-o-philes from years past came out of the woodwork to contribute - and most of it was positive, but there's always some sad sack who doesn't like something and that's fine. But there's nothing else to talk about with the bygone C50 tour! It's a great memory, and there's still a lot to celebrate and listen to with the new Live CD. And people are bitchin' up and down and all around about THAT!. The C50 is done and it ain't coming back. It passed away, just like Carl & Dennis did, and nothing we do can bring it back! It's a business - they aren't there to please the fans all the time. Brian has another solo coming out (hopefully the Rock & Roll album he's been talking about since 2000 or however long it's been) and some here are whining that it ain't a Beach Boys album! sh*t!!!  C'mon, it's already planned! It's destiny. Let's just be happy we get another new album at all, people!

All that being said, 1 1/2 hours ago I started a basic goofy thread with not a whole lot of thought behind the subject matter, and 15 people have contributed to it already. What does that tells ya??  :-D

Yeah, how come that fizzled out??  That was good! You should revive it. Ever since I picked up the Beatles Monopoly game a few years back, I've always thought it would be cool to have a Beach Boys version. Even the Stones have a Monopoly game. Why not America's band?

You don't have to live broken hearted though.  You can light some candles, put your favorite records on the turntable, pull all the faith you can find and meet me at Mary's Place.   :-D

Mikie it might be done for you but apparently isn't for others, with all due respect of course.  I'm going to take a break for a day or two, come back later on then and see what's up.  Maybe go hang out at Mary's Place for awhile.  Ciao.

The "you keep thinkin' Butch" comment has been used by the agdster on many a post over the years-it usually indicates he's running low on fuel and will be switching to battery power (9 volt) at any moment. It's usually shortly after that, that the fuse blows, the panties bunch, and the all too familiar foaming is directed at anyone who takes issue with him or myKe luHv and brOOth.  ::)

Suggest you go down to the corner store - I hear there's a special on "a sense of humor" today.  ;D

Um, think you'll find there are several registered - and active - posters of this forum who have a notion about what will be on the box ranging from vague to fair, as has been hinted at in the recent past.

*sigh* Obviously I'm not even capable of asking my question in a way anybody gets my point. I'm not arguing that it would make any sense for Brian, Al and David to do a M&B-like tour under the name "The Beach Boys". They won't ever, that's for sure, my question was : If they did, would they likely sell less tickets than M&B do? Academic question.

Ok. I can understand the question and obviously I'm not AGD.

I think if Brian, Al and David using the Beach Boys name were to do the same touring schedule as Mike and Bruce and play all of the county fairs as well as the other venues then they could sell as many tickets. But the costs for them in traveling and having a much bigger band would mean that I certainly don't think it would be as big a success in business terms.

All of these things are linked in and Brian has had more 'success' touring solo (in that he has been able to release new work and gain credibility as a solo artist) than he would have trying to tour as a 3 piece Beach Boys.

It's brand name recognition. Brian and Al touring as "The Beach Boys" would sell no more tickets than Mike and Bruce do by using the name. Solo Brian shows have often lost money in the past. Plus Brian would in no way ever commit to the touring schedule that Mike does so unless shows are booked out way in advance in bigger venues and heavily promoted they would never make as much money. And it would effectivally end his solo career progression because roughly 90% of the people attending would have zero interest in hearing new Brian material.

This topic refuses to die, so let's spin it on it's head for a moment; if it had been Mike who wanted to extend the C50 tour and Brian wasn't interested would people still be bemoaning the breakup in the same way? No the consensus would be that of evil, no-talent Mike Love is again trying to exploit his poor, defenceless cousin to further his own career.

Just accept that 70+ year old men are not willing to live their lives in a bubble created by hardcore fan's expectations of what they should or shouldn't be doing and move on. I hear Brian has a new solo record on the way.

Thanks for that very balanced post.  I guess one difference as between the bands' touring success might be that Mike seemed to start from scratch with a new/different model of the Band, and followed the prescribed BRI model. But the challenge seemed to be to carve out venues and demographics who wanted to hire the new configuration. And they weren't perfect (any more than anyone or any other business start-up) but became great (my opinion) after time and much practice and Band reconfigurations.  

Brian's seemed to be a different model, mixing a "corpus" such as Pet Sounds or TLOS, SMiLE live, being the lead singer, giving a little intro to the songs, and also doing the greatest hits so everyone could get up and rock out.  

Early in Brian's touring, Melinda lent her wonderful support by sitting in the wings, and later moving to the audience within the first few rows.  And, rather than having Brian do the smaller outdoor/indoor touring circuit, where you could expect to plan to see Brian every spring or summer, there was no set pattern to see him, which didn't help.

People are creatures of habit. And many of these seasonal venues just book out, bands such as Chicago, Darius Rucker, etc., and if an act doesn't get into that "touring groove" when they want to tour, they are continuously starting from scratch. They often play two nights in a row, which might compensate for not using a larger venue.  And people book tickets and act lineups for "subscribers" in January for August.  These might not all be the over-the-top grandiose venues but it is consistently good business where people come back year after year.   ;)

There ya go, Pilgrim!   :)

Well done. Especially if the reason we heard was Brian was just tired and resentful of kissing Mike's ass. Then Mike starts claiming he got fired by Brian and blah, blah, blah. I bet the discussion would be what a prick Mike was for wanting to go beyond the agreement and do another album and expecting Brian to change his plans with his band and blah, blah, blah.

I'm feeling blah today.

Man, this thread blew up. Is anyone else feeling a bit "yawn" over this? Granted I haven't heard it yet, but TWGMTR is, by leaps and bounds, overall the best thing any Beach Boy has done since... shit. The late 70s? I don't know. All I know is that while I love Brian, to me his solo output generally has about 1-2 really great songs, maybe 1-3 good songs and I can take or leave the rest. I encourage him to do what he wants, I always look forward to hearing what he has to offer, I'm so glad he's still at it, but nothing he nor anyone else in the band has done in terms of albums has been in the same ballpark as Radio. A few songs probably surpass it, but that's it. The other guys have done some good stuff on their own too, but again, it just doesn't compare. I really feel they need each other to make it work and to really nail it. I have to wonder how much Dave or Al will even be featured beyond the extent of Brian's usual guests.

I just don't get why any members and any people behind the curtain can't set aside their fucking egos to continue to at least record more Beach Boys records. These guys don't have much time left, as sad as it is to say. Not happy with Mike, but also not happy with the continually spiteful people behind Brian, either. An album stating outright that it features Al and Dave and not any other members reeks of the typical "We're having a party, you're not invited because you didn't bend to our will 100000% of the time. We invited your friends, mostly because it makes us look good," shit that's went on for years. Don't get me wrong - I'm sure some of the blame can be put on the five band members, but I feel it's been made pretty apparent that the majority of this crap lies in the hands of their "people": handlers, wives, lawyers, whatever. Yuck.

The people behind Brian need to realize that Mike probably feels an obligation to his touring family and friends to keep them fed and prospering just as the Mike camp needs to realize that they should probably feel a similar obligation to Brian, Al and David and accommodate and include them. Same goes for their touring groups if that's a concern. Some kind of simple compromise could have been met and could still be met, but no. Too much ego, too much money, too many cooks in the kitchen aside from the only five people who earned their spot there. I guess the folks behind the curtain needn't concern themselves with the human aspect of it all, as long as the money continues to come in and they can continue to create needless drama for the sake of retaining public interesting (and money, by extension), keeping the story spicy so they can sell them more David Leaf "documentaries". The Beach Boys' time on this earth may be limited, but the paychecks they bring in to these people isn't. Thanks for ensuring something that could continue to bring a lot of people joy doesn't continue and probably never will again. ^_^

I wish some simplicity could be brought back into the picture. It's, as they say, "a damn shame" that something can't be done to ensure such a legendary group can't at least write and record music together as human beings anymore.

(inb4 "runnerz this is conspiracy theory sh*t ur insane u need help". I KNOW :'( )

In my opinion, after the first few weeks, yes - sales would drop off like lemmings suddenly introduced to a cliff edge. None of the three are natural frontmen.

OK, once more for those who might be hard of understanding, here's why Brian's "surprise" at Mike's press announcement of late September last year doesn't wash with me, or indeed anyone possessed of a rational outlook: from Rolling Stone dated June 26th 2012 -

"But while the band continues to extend its 50th anniversary tour with more dates in the U.S. and overseas, frontman Mike Love is also planning for what happens when the tour is over; he's already booked fall dates with his touring version of the Beach Boys, without the group's other principal founding members.

The news surprised Brian Wilson. "I wasn't aware that Mike had some shows in South America," Wilson tells Rolling Stone. "News to me.""

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/mike-love-books-beach-boys-shows-without-brian-wilson-20120626 (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/mike-love-books-beach-boys-shows-without-brian-wilson-20120626)

So, Mike announced his dastardly plan to, er, stick to the mutually agreed script a good three months before the nonsense of September. More, Brian was not only fully aware, he even commented on it. Might have been news to him before 6/26/12... but not after. And note, no wails of protest, no "feels like being sacked". Just "news to me".

We will never come to an agreement on the C50 tour situation. If your view is Mike was right in completing  his agreed number of shows, rejecting more dates and returning to his lineup well then that's your prerogative.

If you believe he should have completed the tour,  then following the last show sat down with the rest of the band and discussed the future of the Beach Boys then you're a rational thinking person.

This whole C50 tour discussion is an interesting personality test, you're either a Brian Wilson personality type or a Mike love personality type. I'm not surprised AGD sides with Mike  :lol

Actually, I'm siding with the concept of accurate reporting and correctly understanding said information. fact is, as just established, Brian knew about Mike's October shows some three months before Mike's second (and admittedly very badly-timed) statement, thus to express any surprise at the latter was, to be charitable about it, disingenuous. The more so as it was issued at the express request of Brian's representative. This isn't my given opinion, it's reported fact from the two October pieces in the LA Times. Read them again.

But who's to say they didn't? In fact, as Jon Stebbings has mentioned that future dates had been offered sometime previously, they had no doubt had this discussion well before the final show. And for whatever reason no agreement to carry on at that time could be reached.

Ok, a pretty unusual reaction from Brian's camp, nothing new there.

I saw the M&B dates pop up only a few weeks (maybe less) into the tour. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. It's nothing short of undermining, Mike had his mind set up how far the C50 tour was going. As I stated you can either believe it's his right or you can believe that the 5 guys on stage made the Beach Boys what they are and it was up to those five guys to decide what happens post the C50 tour. All legal, voting sh*t aside.


IMO. I doubt Mike gave those dates a second look.

I disagree that those are the only two possible options. Especially as Bruce and David have no say at all. And also because they all originally had an idea of how far the tour was going. The plan was to do it for 'one final time' as Al said. They all knew about that.

I can understand people saying that Mike should have waited until the tour was done and dusted before booking dates. But as tickets need to go on sale months before a concert is held and promoters and venues have to be involved well before that time, I think it is also completely understandable that the tour had a set end date and that Mike and Bruce gigs were arranged for after that.

I like you Shady but your opinions can sometimes be so fantasy based. It's not like there's five magical fairies and they all can stay and play as a happy loving unit forever and ever and ever because a few of them want to.

I am still of the opinion that the whole "Mike fired me!" bit was a publicity stunt. A cheap one at that. But either way, we're still talking about it!!! As AGD has presented, there is actual proof Brian was told about Mike's fall plans. They were made!  As if the first time he knew (or his "handlers") was when he was told by a writer of Rolling Stone. Give me a break. And once again, some of you seem to forget, Mike has people on his payroll, and some of them are his own family. "The Beach Boys" are an established unit, this thing wasn't infinite, people don't seem to want to understand that.

And...Is it really like Brian Wilson to attack one of his band members in the form of press articles and releases? I don't buy for one second that he actually felt that way, wanted to do this. And, for what it's worth, despite reportedly having a good time on the tour (let's be honest, it's not like he really looked it most of the time - back troubles not withstanding), did he seriously want to keep touring after 75 dates?

I might get some heat for this, but you know how Brian was the most "on" for both of the final UK shows? Maybe he was so happy and "on" those nights because he knew they were the last.

And lastly, I know I just added fuel to this ugly fire, but can we not have EVERY thread derail into a C50 clusterfuck? This one was supposed to be about Brian's upcoming album.

You truly amaze me. Facts mean absolutely nothing to you. Are you a conspiracy theorist in everyday life? ;)

Mike - along with the other four - agreed to the initial 50 dates: then, as it became evident the tour was going to be a monster, the decision was made to extend it by roughly 50%, another 23 dates, essentially the entire overseas leg. Mike changed his mind for the greater good once, and - granted I'm shooting in the dark here - maybe someone guessed he'd roll over again, and was surprised when he didn't. Also, as has been pointed out excellently earlier today, if it was Mike wanting to go on and Brian's saying "no", you know as well as I do there wouldn't be anything like as much fuss, if any at all. Because it's Brian, and that makes all the difference to a certain clique here and elsewhere.

So.....any news or opinions on Brian Wilson's new solo album? Or is this thread destined to be become locked because it's another long and very boring bitch-fest about the end of the C50 tour?

Hopefully some song titles for this and the MIC box set are released soon to give us something more tangible to talk about.

I know.  I'm not a moderator (and I don't play one on tv), but various members, including myself, have repeatedly attempted to steer the discussion back to the topic at-hand, and have even gone so far as to ask directly that this continuous, off-topic, barrage be taken elsewhere, and I've only seen one or two people acknowledge our requests, and we have otherwise been ignored.  Terrible manners, and improper use of the forum.  What I don't get is why the real moderators haven't tried to put an end to this (it's been going on unchecked for days and days, now).  I don't mean to piss and moan about it, but it's off-topic, people are getting nowhere in convincing anybody of anything, and after so many pages of it, it's boring as hell.

Please, try to be gentlemen about it and either discuss the announcement of Brian's new album, or take it someplace else.  Please.

Where's the fun in that?

See, now that was funny.   ;D

But, seriously, days and days and days...

Wha?  Who?  You and Paulos finally gettin' tired of watching the circle jerk here?  

Why doesn't Mike Love have the right to decide that he didn't enjoy working with B. Wilson and Co. and decided to stick with his long term gig?  B.Wilson's track record on the road is atrocious.

 :thud

I heard he once got in a grossout contest with Frank Zappa and took a dump on his father on stage!

Say guys, do you know what we're due for? An Al Jardine interview talking about the upcoming album and tour we can fight over for a week or two. Can't you feel the Jardine winds blowing? Ooo, spooky. It is said on clear nights he takes the form of a beast to take revenge on his enemies and give cryptic interviews...

Yes.

Nah.  You're thinking of good 'ol G.G.

Perfectly understandable, though.  People are making that mistake all of the time.

I still don't get why other BW fans want him to work with Mike so bad anyway, just because of the Beach Boys name. Mike is nothing but a drag on Brian at this point because he refuses to do work up to his potential. I'd much rather hear Brian work with legitimate talents like Jeff Beck than a hack like Mike.

Even if Mike had agreed to more dates, and the tour was extended for a few months, we would still be in the same place we are now, in June 2013. The C50 tour would still have long been over by now, right? And the M/B Beach Boys would still be touring with their own version of the band.

The C50 tour doesn't matter now. What matters is the new BW album. Did Brian propose at first that this new lp be a Beach Boy lp, and did Mike reject the offer? Or was this always going to be a solo lp? Is there a plan for a possible "the Beach Boys" lp after this solo lp is finished? These are the pertinent questions, surely (not that any of us are likely to know the answers).

To be fair to Mike, didn't an interview just come out where Mike said he didn't really work with Brian on TWGMTR? It was more like "here's the instrumental, come up with some lyrics Mike"

The band dynamic isn't there anymore. Blame it on Mike, blame it on Brian, but the chemistry is gone. So, call me a Brianista, but I'd rather Brian work without Mike if better music is the result.

Brian's new album. Well, I'm hoping it'll be better than GIOMH: that's how low my bar is currently set. Leaves a mess of room for surprised (and surprising) delight. When we get some track titles, I'll maybe revise my expectations.

OK, now, back to the C50 nonsense...  :ahh

I want the C50 BBs to sing the whole "Cruisin with Ruben and the Jets" album.

"Anyway The Wind Blows" would be epic! I'd love to hear Brian or Al give it a shot. Fine, Foskett can pirouette vocally in the background.

You reckon there's any chance Brian will revisit some of the unfinished 'Life suite' compositions for this album?

Well, you're a smart man for thinking that!  Know why?  'Cause there was NOBODY on that C50 tour last year who was gladder it was over than Brian Wilson. When I saw him in June, he couldn't wait to sit down wherever he went because his back was killing him! People who were at the concerts were saying that as soon as he left the stage at intermission he would go right off stage and sit. And I saw it first hand! After the concerts he'd make a beline for the tour bus, sit in the front seat, and zonk out immediately. So by September, he was exhausted and good and ready for a long break. Not my opinion. Fact!! Media hype? Sure it was. Along with a little egging on and encouragement by Brian between doctor visits......

Now, how 'bout that Brian Wislon solo album coming up, eh?

With Joe Thomas involved, I'd say it'd be more likely we'd get some fragments or reworkings. Let's see when they start blabbing more, but if I were in his shoes I would use them here or for future projects with Brian instead of offering them up for MIC, right? Just $$$-wise it makes more sense for control/profit reasons.

Then we can have another few fragments dribble out and years of threads based on contradictory interviews from vague men dedicated to constructing suite mixes. Well, it keeps kids off the streets.

Plus, Brian's a musical recycler. Of course the old themes and weirdness are brought out! I mean, he's gotten to the point of doing the first song his grandma taught him. 60-70% chance of a 98 song in there or two? Place your bets. Place your bets. Watch the red man.

During the early part of the C50 tour, the discussion was thick about how Brian seemed to be miserable.  So much so, that a friend of his, Ray L., came on this board to assure that us that he was enjoying himself.  I haven't seen him post since the time that issue came up.

Well, I'm not sure.  I know Thomas said that Brian had some songs set aside as definite "Beach Boys" pieces, while others were for Brian Wilson albums, and the suite songs we've heard so far were, of course, released under the Beach Boys banner.

So, if this means Brian sees the suite as Beach Boys material, would he be more likely to hold out from releasing these numbers, in the hopes of making them a part of another future BB album?

Or, has Brian decided that he doesn't want to wait for something which may never come, and has decided to make sure the suite sees completion?  Certainly, the four suite numbers from TWGMTR were superb, and if what's left does, in fact, approach anything nearing that level of quality, then I'd like to think Mr. Wilson will find a way to finish them up and see them released.  While I'm not convinced it will be for MiC, I'd like to think there's a chance some of these numbers will see the light of day on this next Brian Wilson solo release.

I was remembering that when I was typing my last post. That guy was sooooooo fulla crap! Trying to play it down like it was no big deal. Who was that guy?  Did he really have his finger on the pulse to see what was actually going on?  I know what I saw, and a few others corroborated it. No they weren't insiders or on the tour, but it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the physical condition of Brian Wilson last year!

FWIW, has Brian ever really REALLY liked touring? I mean, really?

He's a friend of Brian's. Brian dedicated a song to him at Wembley.

Brian was as engaged as I've ever seen him at the Italian shows, when there was still two months to go of the tour, as well as at Wembley. It's entirely possible that he was distracted by his back problems early on, but enjoyed the tour once his health got slightly better.

In an attempt to try to bring this thread back on topic, perhaps the C50 subject could continue here.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15751.0.html

 :)

I just have to quote this all the way back from page 3--




Seriously.

He's going to do a great job. His plan all along was to outsell TWGMTR and the C50 Live albums.

Crafty b@stard! ;D

Didn't Brian's press release imply the music exploded out of him during/since the C50?

Something sure as heck did during the GIOMH sessions.

“I was really moved by the fans’ excitement about The Beach Boys’ album and tour last year,” says Wilson. “It charged me up and my head was full of music - I just couldn’t wait to get back into the studio to let it out.”

They wouldn't publish this unless there was a bit of newly conceived material for this album, eh?

With the lineup of musicians, Al and Dave guesting, and the praise his songs for this release have been getting, I'd say we're in for one amazing album!

It actually sounds a lot like GIOMH quite frankly from a conceptual standpoint although obviously it's not so much the concept that really matters but the execution.  Like I said I really don't understand why so many are so adverse to other members continuing a discussion about the dissolution of the C50 in this thread since there isn't all the much to speak about in regards to Brian's new solo album as we know next to nothing about it yet.  I mean how many "I can't wait to hear what Jeff Beck is going to contribute to this record" posts can you possibly have before it sounds like the one that said exactly the same thing two pages back?  But different strokes for different folks I guess.

In regards to the ongoing C50 discussion, I've started a new thread here in an effort not to get this one locked up for those who actually do wish to discuss the imminent Brian Wilson solo release.  So here is hoping that this thread doesn't get locked and the mods allow us who want to continue talking about the C50 to migrate over to the thread posted below:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15752.0.html

If Mike had wanted to continue and Brian didn't, the band wouldn't have broken up in the same way.  Because there'd be nothing to stop Mike from inviting Al and David to keep touring with him and Bruce... and we'd be back to, basically, the Beach Boys status quo from 1965 onwards: Brian at home while the rest of the band goes out.  Quite possibly even working on this album and waiting for the rest of the band to come back and add vocals.

So of course people wouldn't have objected in the same way.

The fact that Mike didn't want that is down to nobody but Mike...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[moved to other thread]

It would still leave Brian breaking up the C50 and all of the pie-in-the-sky oppotunities etc.. If the C50 could continue without Brian, it could have continued without Mike. Theoretically. Also the premise was that Brian declined for the same reasons supposedly attributed to Mike, that Brian didn't wish to continue to appease to Mike and wanted to continue his already made plans with his own band.

If Mike's reason was a bad back maybe [maybe not] the actual conversation would have been different.

That hypothetical Brian Wilson sure is a dirty snake in the grass! Always tarnishing the reputation of The Actual Brian Wilson. Of course, Fantasy Mike Love would never let a bad back stop him and would've soldiered on without ever complaining once except to Bruce Johnston over a weird leafy looking lunch.

We should bug some of the people involved in this new album and see if some details trickle out.

Ray is legit.

I would be surprised if this album wasn't considerably better than GIOMH. There is obviously a similarity in the way that guests are being used but they are sensible choices this time when compared with the likes of Robbie Williams who were invited for GIOMH. Plus I cannot imagine Joe Thomas allowing Brian to contribute the terrible vocals he did for that earlier album.

You forgot to put the laughing emoticon in. People might think you really mean this :lol

Sorry this is off-topic.


Thank you Andrew for finally answering my question in a way that I can get your point, and more than that, in a polite way without unnecessarily babbling about irrelevant things one may or may not know about certain circumstances on a distant earlier tour trying to point out how much more you know than I do and how little I know. You really don't need to prove that, Andrew.


Thanks to you too, Nicko. Case closed for me, back to the new album. Any new rumors?

No, I don't think Joe Thomas or Brian's management would allow Brian to release an album with the terrible GIOMH vocals now. Genuinely.

They wouldn't allow him to sound like an alien as someone on the board commented he did back then.

Robbie Williams was invited to guest on GIOMH?

 :o =>  :lol =>  :-X

Yep.

He turned it down stating, 'He probably doesn't even know who I am'. Wise words.

As opposed to a robot

My inexpert take on Brian's back and health last year.

It certainly looks like he was struggling with pain in the early C50 shows. Then we got word that he did indeed have a back problem, not uncommon for someone of his age and height. We heard that he received treatment for this. As far as I can tell from videos his back gradually got better.

By the time I saw him in the flesh at Wembley he seemed fine. Brian almost always shuffles off stage. It's just his way.

And if Brian Douglas Wilson was not enjoying himself on stage that night at Wembley then give the man a fucking Oscar. After the show he may well suffer from lows, or want to quickly leave the spotlight and chill/zone out/rest whatever. That does not mean he is any more unwell than he was 10 years ago.

I got a few replies from my posts/rants last night  ;D But I best not reply to them since we're (rightfully) keeping this on topic regarding Brian's new solo album.

I did learn from the replies, I will say that  :lol

I saw Brian get on the tour bus, wipe his face with a towel, lean back and zone out looking exhausted as well........however........that was in 2005 during the BWPS tour. Bad back or not, getting on the bus and away from everyone else is something he apparently just does.

I would say his vocals on Imagination and TWGMTR are 1000 times better than his vocals on GIOMH but each to their own.

Totally agreed. His vocals on Imagination and TWGMTR are the best he's done since 1974.

GIOMH - might have been named the more upbeat and snappy "How Could We Still Be Dancin'?" - and I like about half of what is on it.  And, don't care if it is a minority position.  I like Soul Searchin' with Carl's vocals, (anything with Carl's vocals!)  A Friend like you with Sir Paul, Fairy Tale, Don't Let Her Know She's an Angel, and the hilarious The Waltz. (I don't expect anyone under the age of 60 to get this song.) Brian and Van Dyke were in a rear-view mirror mode.

No artsy intellectual stuff, here, but seemed to be drawing on personal memories. (This ain't SMiLE saga time.) This is awkward 1950's high school teenage dance time, with boys on one side of the room, sweating, trying to get the courage to ask a girl to dance on the other side of the room, with their Vitalis hair tonic, or Brylcreem-slicked hair, and skinny ties. And, I like this little aspect of Van Dyke revealing a less studious, human side.  I bet they had a few laughs during the process.

 If they are mining for material, this might be an unlikely place, especially to sell to Baby Boomers.  I remember little or no promotion, and think I stumbled upon it, at Borders or some bookstore location.  

Absolutely. He also sang well on most of Gershwin and even better on Disney. Just him singing well on an album changes the entire game.

Brian would know it since he bought "freakout" back in 1966, its the ultimate anti-love song.

Autotune is the reason Brian sings better on "Imagination" and TWGMTR. He's heavily processed. I'd rather hear a more natural sound. I don't care for either of those records, particularly Imagination, due to Joe Thomas's electronic wizardry.  I would be more interested in Brian's new album were it not for the involvement of Joe Thomas. I also can't believe Brian wants to work with a man who once sued his wife and said some terrible things about her in that lawsuit and also had his friends such as Steve Dahl spread some nasty stories about Melinda to the press and public. I predict Brian and Melinda will come to regret Joe Thomas II.

Even though I like Brian's vocals on the Gershwin album, he still sounds better on Imagination, and even more so on TWGMTR. If having his vocals processed is doing this, then I say more power to Joe. I rarely if ever listen to the solo albums because Brian doesn't sound all that great on any of them, except for the 3 mentioned above.

Totally agree.

I guess I listen to too many blues singers. Nobody cares if their vocals are pristine or not. I approach Brian's music that way too. It's the feeling in the music. If the music feels honest, I love it. That's why people like me adore Beach Boys Love You. It's the feeling right there in the grooves. To hear Brian grind through Still I Dream of It, or Lowell George sing China White, or Richard Manuel sing Tears of Rage is pure, honest emotion, in my opinion.

Personally I would say that Joe Thomas's work with the music is much more of an issue than what he does with the vocals. Yes there is maybe some autotune going on but Brian also put in a hell of a lot more effort on those two albums than he with GIOMH. So my point earlier was basically that with any proper producer around Brian will not be able to get away with lacklustre vocals (not that I'm saying he necessarily will be as disinterested as he was with GIOMH).

I would take the following over any of the vocals on GIOMH anyway:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m47tjDmX2jc

As for the lawsuits between Joe Thomas and Melinda. If Melinda has no problem with that (and there is no way Brian is doing anything without her say so) then I'm not sure why it would really concern anyone else.

Just finished reading the whole thread, I haven't been on the forum for quite a while but it's always nice to know this forum is still the same as always! ;D

Whilst I enjoy Brian's vocals on TWGMTR and to a lesser extent Imagination, I think he sounds 'better' on Gershwin and Disney.

And there was seemingly little JT could do with the rather shoddy first couple of lines of Isn't It Time.

....sorry to hear that.

"Stuck with them"?  What the hell are you talking about, "stuck with them"?  Good grief. You're aware, I presume, or perhaps not, that these fellows you say Brian was "stuck with" were integral parts, many of us would say indispensable parts, of the most successful and acclaimed band in American history? Brian might have been able to choose who he wanted to work with; he chose to work with his family. "Stuck with".  Wow.

 I think everybody eventualy comes to regret Joe Thomas.

I think Gershwin is pretty clearly Brian's best sustained, album-length collection of lead vocals since about Pet Sounds. He actually sounds like a professional singer, with sustained notes and actual phrasing and everything. I saw him during the time he was recording that album -- the fall of 2009 -- and the shows he did then were amazing. Best of his solo career, and the few who got to see them agree. For whatever reason, he was on a creative roll then, and I think he worked on his vocals for that album harder than he has before or since in his solo career.

Disney has some very good leads, but also a few unremarkable ones (basically everything up tempo). And TWGMTR is about the same, with the exception of a Bill and Sue, and some of Shelter, where he sounds mush-mouthed. I give Isn't it Time a pass, because it seems to me he was aiming for a grittier sound on a less-produced tune there. His vocals on the closing suite are pretty much at the level of the Gershwin record, though.

Looking back, I think Imagination sounds all right, but a lot of his leads don't quite sound like a human being. It's not that I'd call it robotic, just that he sounds so ... disconnected, I suppose ... from what he's singing about. That's kind of an issue with Orange Crate Art, too. I will say I really like his lead on the remade "Let Him Run Wild," though.

GIOMH, BWPS and the Christmas record all suffer to a greater or lesser extent from the shouty Brian syndrome, although there are good moments in all three. And he just sounds bizarre on the IJWMFTT soundtrack -- high and reedy and over-emphasizing things. He's never used that approach before or since, which is probably a good thing (I guess it's on the Paley sessions tracks, too).

Couldn't agree more. Reminds me of some classic Bach performances, like Pablo Casals on the Cello Suites. Gruff is the word. Also, Lucy van Dael on the sonatas for solo violin. These are underrated because they are too natural, IMHO, there's little or no gloss or sheen, contrary to many other modern versions. I don't doubt that Bach himself would have preferred the natural way, and that he would have rejected the whole idea of autotune.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but there is a one page article about Brian's new album in MOJO magazine. It doesn't give away much but Brian does say there are "very good harmonies" and "mellow leads" on the album. JT mentions that Brian and Jeff Beck came up with some great stuff during their week together in the studio. Also, there is only one track (no name mentioned) that is not an original. It says it is the first song Brian learned to sing that he learned from his grandmother.

Danny Boy? Down in the Valley? On Top of Old Smokey? You Are My Sunshine? Happy Birthday?

If Brian recorded a souped up version of Happy Birthday with Jeff Beck on guitar, I would be convinced that Brian reads this board and is eagerly rubbing his hands with glee thinking 'LETS SEE THEM TRY TO LIKE THIS'

Twenty quid says it's Shortenin' Bread.

First song he ever learned? My expertise, born of experience, suggests Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, Baa Baa Black Sheep or In The Night Garden (aka, "Yes My Name Is Iggle Piggle").

Has any singer undergone more vocal transformations than Brian Wilson? I know people's voices change over time, but his changes have been so extreme. It's hard to believe it's all the same person.

Agreed that he sounds like a professional singer on Gershwin. It is in my 6-pack old car CD player - and, never comes out.  It is a winner!

I don't mind Brian singing his stuff in any unusually phrased or interpreted style, depending on his mood or frame of mind. It is his stuff and part of his "Brian-ish" charm. And don't care if he is off- key. He sings from his heart, first. His "voice" is secondary.

And, it is getting annoying with all the "tweaking" going on, with his and the Beach Boys work; especially live.  I think they are just perfect as they are.  With all these live shows for C50 sold out, the audience must agree as well. People want "live" sounding realistic and "on fire."

(Sorry for the digression.)  ;)

Hang on... I thought Brian Wilson was a professional singer? ???

Yes, he is, but not in the Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra or Perry Como context.

This Gershwin thing, ramped up his status.  ;)

I couldn't agree more. Gorgeous lead vocals on a couple of tracks. Brian turned out to be quite the crooner on BWRG and ITKOD ("Baby Mine").

Agreed. Listening to the Gershwin/Disney albums is the only time you can close your eyes and actually hear a 65 year old version of the same Brian who made Pet Sounds. There is a quality of voice there you can't find anywhere else pre-1975.

It's stupid ignorant comments like this that will scare away the "Beach Boy insiders" from wanting to visit this site in the future.

Ray is not full of crap. He's a really nice guy and a good friend to Brian. He certainly knows more about Brian than you do.

Seriously....show a little class. You're embarrassing all of us.

"I still remember
Him soundin' sweet and tender
Singin' "Danny Boy" on grandma's lap..."

Ray Lawlor? Yeah, he is actually one of Brian's best friends, hangs with him in the studio and on tour. I'd say he "has his finger on the pulse" a little more than people who are at the concerts watching from the audience...

Seriously - with comments like that, go back to that other board that you hang out at, You know, the one run by the dufus know-it-all who got kicked off of this board for being an asshole. You're two of a kind.

"...comments like that..."...you mean well-written and accurate and refraining from juvenile profanity and name-calling?

You're embarrassing yourself, dude.

I'll take your word for it, Southbay. At the time he posted, it wasn't representitive of what I saw first hand at all. And that was at the side of the stage and afterwards going to the tour bus (mid June). By some people's accounts, his back improved on the back half of the tour which is a good thing!

What did I say to piss you off?? I've hardly posted here lately. Something I say there in the past, Tep? Got a grudge going with me or what? Just looking for an opportunity to pounce? Thought we were on OK terms. But that's OK, if you wanna be like that, that's OK.

Maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before, but not that often on this board I don't think! Ha Ha Ha!

P.S. After my post, AGD clarified that Lawlor is legit. That was earlier ( a page or two)  in the thread. I took his word for it back then and that's good enough for me!

I'm just responding to posts as I read them. I didn't even notice it was written by you until after the fact.

I'll just add that while Brian's tone and phrasing on Gershwin and Disney are the best he's had in the studio in years up to those points, there's also a bit of studio magic and tweaking on those releases to help it along (though obviously not to the degree as with Radio). They as much as admitted to "tuning the odd note here and there" on Gershwin (take that as you may), and the actual autotune is quite obvious on "The Like In I Have You." Though, it was also noted how much time and effort he put into wanting to get his vocals the best he could on Gershwin, so the often nice results back that up.
 
Live is where Brian still clearly struggles the most at times, and I'd argue that while he may sing from the heart, he can also sound absolutely dire and disconnected on occasion in terms of pitch and phrasing. I love the Beach Boys. I love Brian Wilson. But, it's still apparent and sometimes disconcerting and non-pleasurable to me. Just one of those things. :)

‍

You're probably never gonna get Brian consistantly singing well in a live show-In the many times I've seen him live, he'll do very well in one song and the next one will be off kilter. Gotta remember, the man is scared to death of performing in front of an audience and most likely will always be that way. I've also been lucky enough to have witnessed quite a few soundchecks-he's lighthearted, tells jokes and actually sings very well. Wonder how much of that has been recorded.

The other thing that's been suggested at times is his actual hearing. I've often wondered if he would benefit from an in-ear monitor on stage, though I know many musicians who actually hate using those buggers.

That's right... he actually was. ;D

Yeah, I've wondered about that too. I bet his pitch, if not perfect, is a heck of a lot better when he has headphones on in the studio. I also wonder how deaf he is ... :P

50/50

Not looking so forward to this. It will be as auto-tuned heavy as TWGMTR and I find it terribly unlistenable. Sterile & robotic.

;D

I was just pondering something. Why do you guys think that Brian’s band often go for such a ’60s sounding bass tone (and do it very tastefully) but not at all on the drums? It’s so weird (not in a good way) to hear that ’60s bass with '80s sounding, perfectly-tuned, close-miced, stereo toms. Even Joe Thomas will occasionally do the '60s bass. But the drums are always in another decade, one that was terrible for the engineering of drums.

Yes, sitting through one episode does feel like 70 years have passed!

Found the awesome above quote on the IMAGINATION DVD thread...thanx Bubba- well said!

I often wonder about this. Does anyone else have any ideas or insights about Brian's abilities? Does Brian still write all the harmonies, does he still crack the whip around? Does he approve of the auto tune disasters? He must have the final say, right? I know he can play piano....that is why I would sometimes just rather hear him play piano than all that robo-Brian stuff we get sometimes. Does anyone remember the TLOS DVD? One of the band members plucks the piano strings like in the beginning of YSBIM, and he askes Brian's approval, and Brian says "no"... is that the state of Brian's production input nowadays?

Also, Brian's music isn't famous for blistering guitar solos- is Jeff Beck going to bring that to the music?

Mahalo - I'm not sure a 2006 post characterizes Brian in 2013, which is largely speculation anyway. (Sorry.)  Unless one is working in that sphere, one does not know what goes on. I don't have the TLOS DVD but saw the live show. 

Just having seen him several C50 sound checks, Brian was hardly what you'd call "passive" and was tweaking work in that context.  Even with his sore back, he was in some "directorial" capacity. 

I'd be more excited if Joe Thomas wasn't involved. The man has no balls. It's embarrassing. Go back to producing Toby Keith and leave Brian alone, douchebag.

:angry

Yes!  Drums recorded like this can be put to good use, but I agree that this is the one thing, instrumentally, which stands out (and in a manner which, personally, I find can sometimes approach 'unpleasant').  I think you're right that the reason being is that the sound is incongruous with the rest of the production.  Depending on the number, the drums can sound quite out-of-place.

I think another thing which tends to stand out to long time Beach Boys listeners is the use of the drum kit being played in a much more traditional manner than 'classically Brian' productions often did, but I don't think that decision falls so much on Thomas, as Brian, himself.  I could be wrong, though.

What do you mean by "60s bass"?  Do you mean with the classic "tic-tac" tape-delay sound, as heard on "Your Imagination", "From There To Back Again" and other recent cuts?  There have also been times where the bass on Brian's farily recent productions has sounded very "modern" as well (like on "City Blues").  

My guess is that Beck plays a blistering solo on one song, like Clapton did on "City Blues". 

A blistering solo would be good but a face-melter would be even better.

I think Brian's management should have delayed the announcement of a new album by a few weeks as it's already getting forgotten in the MiC frenzy.

If the album is really good, it will gather a ton of attention quickly.  Just don't release the album within a couple of months of MIC.

I also wonder how much BW is involved in creating music, as opposed to his name being used, but the work is done by others.  I guess maybe his involvement in running soundchecks during the C50 tour would give one clue.

Just as the next guy, sometimes I wonder if Brian is just there to put his name on his albums, sing his lines, throw an idea when he feels like it, and let others do the work.

At times, that scenario seems plausible, if not for the fact that the music that bears Brian's name is usually superior to what his collaborators release on their own.

Exactly...as others have pointed out, the kind of chord structures used on Brian's colloborations with Paley and Thomas are far beyond the scope of what those two have done on their non-Brian music.  And Brian absolutely does his own vocal arrangements - no doubt about that.  But, as Thomas said in an interview last year, Brian does "delegate" a lot of studio production work to others, and why shouldn't he at this point.

Brian Wilson has always been a collaborative artist. From the very early days, allowing Dennis to set the direction of the band and Mike to write lyrics (and contribute bass vocal ideas) to the Pet Sounds era (soliciting arrangement advice from the session pros, allowing Chuck Britz and Carl to essentially co-produce a lot of sessions). Nothing in his current methods is particularly different from the way he's worked his entire career. He looks to his friends and fellow musicians for inspiration and ideas -- and always with his quintessential vocal arrangements on top. Sometimes, because of his illness and age, he perhaps leans on these folks harder than he would in his younger years. But that's largely a difference of extent, not of approach or creative ideals.

Sometimes, you have collaborators with a stronger musical approach than others (Usher, Carl, Paley and Thomas), and at other times they're mainly lyricists (Love, Asher, Kalinich, Bennett). But regardless of how the music and songs come together, Brian is almost precisely the opposite of the auteur he's often portrayed as. One of his prime talents is simply in collaborating with other people -- some obviously talented (Parks and Paley), others less so (ad man Asher, ex-wrestler Thomas) -- and encouraging ideas to flow.

I think people on this board sometimes forget that Brian does suffer from a mental illness.  Stop arguing about how you think he personally feels.  Only he knows that and trying to figure it out from face expressions or body language is ridiculous.  Unless you're somehow living inside of the man's brain, I don't think any of us have the right to comment on the guy's emotional state unless he outright said it himself.

Yeah, this is one detail that immediately distinguishes his solo work from his '60s-'70s Beach Boys material. But that is not so much a sonic characteristic as it is a musical/playing style and approach. The drum kit can be played more traditionally (as it is on his solo records) but that doesn't necessarily mean that the drums themselves have to be locked into a specific sound. And what i've been wondering is why he, or whoever else may be responsible, often (certainly not always) chooses to use a bass sound that is very reminiscent of "classic Brian," yet when it comes to the drums, as far as i can recall, they have never been given the same sonic treatment, i.e. mimicking a classic sound. Is there any solo Brian song where the drums (not the percussion) sound more like the drums on '60s Beach Boys records than, say, a Toby Keith record?  :lol  For instance, has a solo Brian song ever been recorded with just two or three (not close) mics on the drums? Have the drums on a Brian record ever been muffled or dampened? Have the cymbals ever not been directly miced? I'm just asking these questions out loud at no one in particular.  


Yeah, i could have explained that better. Tic-tac bass is what i meant. I guess that's technically a late '50s thing, no? But yeah, you know, treble turned up more than usual, played with a pick and closer to the bridge, often palm muted, good amount of reverb, more likely to be amped and miced than going DI. All of that = "60s bass"  :-D  Which, yes, is only an occasional thing on Brian solo productions, because he definitely also uses more modern bass sounds.

EDIT: In fact, the song TWGMTR is an example of a modern, very dry, "smooth," fingered bass sound throughout which then momentarily switches in the bridge to a tic-tac like bass sound.

OK, but I'll say you'll buy it and play it-and play it alot then come on here and complain about it. :lol

Well said.

But how much of that is just because those things were how you dealt with technical limitations in the 60s?

IIRC, the Wilson/Paley stuff from the early-mid '90s had a more "traditional" BW drum sound. 

That's a good point and i've been thinking about this more and i had another thought: I don't know if tic-bass ever truly fell all the way out of fashion over the decades (because it's more of a style that comes and goes, rather than a limitation), whereas the way drums were once recorded in the '60s pretty much disappeared with the advent of new technologies once 16, 32, 48 + more multitracking came to be, and drums started being miced (up closer) with several microphones and given as many corresponding tracks in the mix. It seems that tic-tac bass, over the ensuing decades, has been handled as an occasional stylistic option if a producer feels the song calls for that sort of sound, whereas drums (we're talking commercial recordings here) are recorded the standard way that has been established since the '70s and that's just that. So, maybe it just comes down to there being less stylistic options for treating drums? At least as far as commercial recordings go--productions that aren't really pushing any envelopes of industry standards or intentionally reverting to "outdated" ways as a stylistic choice. On this note, Paley seems to have wanted to dial back into a certain "classic" Brian sort of sound, and one can argue that the Paley sessions were the most risk-taking/least commercial of Brian's solo stuff, excluding home demos, no?  

No, I get what you're saying.  I was just piggy-backing on that, and opining that, in addition to the way the drums are recorded, they are also different due to the manner in which the kit is utilized.  Between these two factors, the result is a listening experience one might otherwise not expect of a traditional Brian Wilson production.

I'd love better sounding drums on BW's recordings. "Better" is subjective, but the modern setup leaves the drums sounding flat and lifeless. I hate the way, in many modern recordings, that snare drums sound. If you're a drummer, and you've played a nice kit, you know how cool it sounds - how there is life there, a fullness. In modern recordings, for the most part, you're left with the top of the drums but not the whole body.

Another pet peeve is the way the kick drums sound on these records. It should NEVER be competing with the bass! It should NEVER sound like a dull, pounding thump that overpowers everything else! There are plenty of records in which you can hear the kickdrum, but you aren't overwhelmed, you can actually feel the drummer's foot kicking the mallet and feeling the boom. That kind of playing is all over the Beach Boys' records - you can tell what Dennis was doing and respect his playing. Listen to the kickdrum on Summer's Gone - that incessant thump shouldn't be so overbearing.

So here's a question: What's that kind of weird almost reverse-fill that the drums do a lot of the time in Brian's tunes?  You can hear it at about 1:09 and 1:15 in "From there to Back Again." It's also in "This Whole World." I've just never heard it discussed, and I'm sure there's a name for it.

I'm a guitarist, so I may lack a drummer's terminology, but I checked out FTtBA, and it's just a series of simple snare fills, but the hook is that they're played dynamically, from quiet to loud.  Almost sneaking up on you.  It's a nice technique.

Same thing on "This Whole World," only the toms are introduced to the fills.

Some more info on the album:
http://www.brianwilson.com/news/

VERY interesting stuff here.

Yay !!!! three albums worth of material...including "the suite".. :afro

Well, it says "three records", but later in the article it says something about them having recorded a dozen songs. I think the 'three records' quote was referring to the fact that he's working with three distinct styles of music all at one time. Anyway, we finally have some titles:

"Right Time"
"Guess You Had To Be There"
"Metropolis"

If it really is that good then it indeed is unfortunate that it's no Beach Boys album. The description makes it sound like Beach Boys albums from the late 60s. Anyway, I'm very interested to hear the music

Brian's new addiction. The guy really hasn't changed.  :-D

'After lunch, Wilson asks a studio engineer to place an order for "supershots" – a viscous concoction of wheatgrass, spiraling and cayenne pepper, with a lime chaser. The rest of the group gags to get it down, but Wilson savors his. "I love the energy! I feel great already!" he says. "You think if I give them, like $100 they'll deliver eight or 10 of these to my house?

"I'm 70 years old," Wilson continues, leaning over the console, "but when I get to work I feel like I'm in my twenties again. I don't know why. I'm just in the groove."'

Very interesting! Hope he pulls it off, instead of 12 tracks hodgepodging the three projects together....

Really heartening to hear Al is featuring a lot on it, too.

Oh my god, that concoction sounds revolting.

This sounds incredible