The Smiley Smile Message Board

Don't know if this has been talked about here and I don't even have the magazine handy, but I was flipping through it last night and there's a blurb about Brian's new album in the current issue of Rolling Stone in the "In The Studio" column that mentions Brian deciding whether to include a duet he recorded with Zooey Deschanel. He says "I can't believe we pulled it off". 

 

Zooey who?

  How long have Brian & Co been recording this album now?

  She has a sitcom called New Girl. Or at least she did. Sings fairly well.

Rerecording of Let's Put Our Hearts Together?   ;D

But seriously, can't wait to hear it, whatever it is!

I like Zooey's group, She & Him. They sometimes work in a few Beach Boys related tracks into their albums too.

She's nerdy hot.  Goofy, but yet pretty.  Funny, but yet a little annoying. 

Zooey is cute, funny, quirky, and has an awesome style - very vintage. Talented musician, too.

And her cinematographer dad Caleb worked on Brian's Good Vibrations promo film back in 1966, so there is a direct connection through generations working with Brian, which is actually a very cool thing to have happen in 2014. If they didn't already, that would be a great angle to cover.

The blurb mentioned another female duet partner, but I didn't recognize the name. It also mentions song titles. Does anyone have the current issue handy?

Now with this information and all the pics of Blondie, Al, etc. I'm wondering if this is going to be an all-duets album.  

Was it Kacey Musgraves?  She posted a photo of her and Brian, in the studio, on her Instagram account not too long ago.

In The SUN by She and Him - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ3cTwI9bIw&list=RDpZ3cTwI9bIw#t=6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ3cTwI9bIw&list=RDpZ3cTwI9bIw#t=6) LOVE that tune!!!!!

I think it should be NEW songs by people like Kacey or Zooey or whoever, and Brian does all the background vocals, either as a wall of Brian or on some songs arranging him and his band singing everything.  Then a couple minor leads by Brian (couple lines, or sing the bridge, etc.), and have Brian produce the whole thing.  

Back in the day, there was no shame in that.  It would be different, would highlight Brian's strengths that really only he can do, would negate Brian's weaknesses (writers block), and would allow Brian to be creatively sparked by some of the youngest and most talented musicians out right now.  

People like Kacey Musgraves have a hundred songs in them, she can write a fucking GREAT song right now, on that piece of paper, if you want her to.  Brian can't do that anymore.  Brian can flesh out the background and the melody, and the production like Kacey can only dream of.  

I hope it's going to be something along those lines, but I'm afraid it's just going to be the same old tired "Old guy sings his old songs with hot new act" album.  

That was it! Thanks. It said she recorded another duet.

The titles mentioned were new, but considering Brian's past solo output I'm guessing there may be a few re-records on it. 

That would be slightly better if it's unreleased stuff, I just don't want to hear remakes of classic Beach Boys songs. 

Just found a pretty good interview where he mentions writing with others younger than him, but not singing.

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/brian-wilson-s-united-states-of-music-1.1823177?page=1

...He doesn’t believe collaborators are necessarily the answer. “I’ve had it with collaborators. I still work sometimes with Scott Bennett – he writes lyrics – but he’s the only one I work with. I don’t really know who would want to work with me at this stage. Young people? People my own age? I don’t know. I’d be very interested if someone approached me. I’m open to that...


Pretty good answers for a Brian phone interview. Nothing new but sounds like he is doing ok.

I wonder when the decision to bring young singers was made. I guess it's a good selling point i.e. "Brian works with the hipsters". I'm guessing we won't be hearing much Jeff Beck on this album, if at all.

Well he's exercising, which is a good sign, and of course he's in an up, relatively expansive mood for Brian Wilson.

Yeah, a dubious attempt at connecting Brian with the indie market - and a cred boost for Z/D, who was the featured talent in the WIBN chapter of Mark Dillon's (mostly) great 50 sides of the BB's.

A talented muso perhaps, but a terrible singer by any measure and makes my ears hurt.

The B-side of the 45 of the above mentioned In the Sun is an unpluggedish style cover of "I Can Hear Music".

He takes a slap at Mike Love in the Irish Times interview, saying that he himself wrote a lot of lyrics for Beach Boys' songs and that Tony Asher and Van Dyke Parks were much better lyricists than the other Beach Boys. You know he means Mike. So much for Mike's ambitions to write more with Brian.

I dunno.  I didn't take that as a swipe at Mike.  I took it as Brian being Brian, i.e. rambling on and saying whatever comes out of his mouth.


"We used to write songs.  That was a long time ago.  I like cake."

Well over a year. Fifteen months or so.

Here is Brian and Zooey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJkBdEIFur8.

6 years ago.

This burst of creative energy that was at one stage amassing enough material for three albums must surely have evolved into a 10-album chest of treasures by now!

Don`t Brian`s comments about touring entirely contradict his earlier comments? Maybe I`m misremembering...

Seems like this new project almost has more guests than the Stars and Stripes sessions.

Zooey (with She & Him) sings Wouldn't It Be Nice :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_pGxE7cJRs

The Irish Times Weekend supplement that's out today has the interview with Brian that's referred to on the first page of this tread.

Good interview, good read. Brian seems more responsive than normal.

Picked up a magazine called "Hotpress" with Imelda May on the cover that's also out in Ireland today and this includes a short interview with Brian as well promoting the gig in Cork.

Some answers:

My new album is very mellow but the next one we make is gonna be a rock 'n' roll album. I guarantee it.

When is the new record out? I don't know. I've been booked in and out of studios for half a year now. We're been working on my album for a very long time. We have a few guest artists. There's one girl - Lana...something." Lana Del Ray?  "That's her. She did a wonderful job on the song". What's the title of the song she sings on? "I don't remember the title, you know that, I don't remember the title, I just know she sang her ass off, she was so good."

Perhaps it would be more useful to interview Joe Thomas.

Certainly seems like Brian is the one in charge of choosing the guests as he was when Robbie Williams was invited to sign on GIOMH.  ::)

Guess I'm the only one here who thinks it's cool in a historical way to have both Daddy Deschanel and Daughter Deschanel working on projects with Brian almost 50 years apart.

I must be getting too sentimental. Or else that kind of thing just doesn't matter here where it's easier to go negative on what the project might be before hearing a note of music, who knows.  :) Sad.

But I also see the usual stuff happen whenever something involving Brian Wilson comes up. Some of it is so predictable it's almost a joke by now, but let me just say...get over the Mike Love stuff already, you know?  :) Every damn thing reported on Brian Wilson does not need to bring a discussion of Mike into the fold, and vice versa.

It's very cool that Brian is doing anything!

It's just the (very) vocal minority.

if this album turns out to be anything other than yet another misguided, mislead, misdirected, autotuned mistake for apologetic fans and the ever decreasing minority of young adults who can bear the cringe factor permeating the last 35 years of new beach boys-related material, ill eat my hat

Maybe it's just me, but I think Brian/BBs have released some great music in recent years. A good portion of TWGMTR was terrific, and I don't think much of Brian's recent albums has been cringe-worthy.
I'll also add that Brian was so uncharacteristically talkative in the Irish Times interview that I wondered if they doctored up his answers a little bit.

As much as I dislike Joe Thomas, he has given some incredibly informative interviews

He's also made some incredibly poor mixes. In the case of the 2012 live album, two whole CDs worth.

I laughed so hard when I heard Robo-Mike on 'Don't Back Down'.

Then I cried  :'(

Maybe in ten years' time or so, the general listening public will regard auto-tuning with the same antipathy as they now do for such dated-sounding '80s digital artifacts as the Linn Drum, DX7 and over-predelayed vocal delays.

if you can play anything from them in front of a group of teenagers and/or 20-somethings who have a basic comprehension of music that goes beyond dadrock and top 40 without turning beet red, i'd be impressed. the music is just so antiquated and uncool, and not in a good way. this includes everything that's ever come out between Love You and now. the only thing i could ever suggest to anybody is "From There to Back Again", but not before desperately urging them to 'pleasepleasepleaseplease ignore the autotune'.

at least with BW88, you can tell people 'look, this is smile as '80s power pop' and that will ease their apprehension knowing that they're getting into one of those, where a '60s relic makes '80s pop tunes with a DX7. how would you recommend this new album based on what we now know for sure? 'a centennial hasbeen of groundbreaking pop art duets with ephemeral top 40 pop hacks'? why would anyone (who is not a member of this board) want to listen to that? what is the selling point there, besides that 'he is still making music when he technically shouldn't'?

hasn't this already been true for the last 5 years? i thought autotune only appealed to the lowest common denominator now.

Hasn't there been a omgdx7retromustbecool revival anyway?

Is this the issue with Miranda Lambert on the cover?

I'll buy a bottle of really good white wine to go with that hat if you tell us which Brian Wilson albums of recent years are autotuned mistakes as you suggest. Gershwin? TLOS?

I could also throw in a bottle of this stuff with the wine...

(http://www.mountainside-medical.com/media/catalog/product/m/u/murine_ear_wax_removal_system__29810.jpg)

  In some respects we've heard a lot about this album in the way of guest stars (Al, Dave, Blondie, Jeff Beck (maybe), Zooey, Lana Del Ray, Frankie Laine - kidding) but does anyone know specific songs, themes, cowriters? Are we looking at another GETTIN' IN OVER MY HEAD??

  Is the finish line in sight? My last couple of posts have been a bit skeptical, but I'm still looking forward to hearing the album.

My 16 year old daughter is in to most the current artists of the day and understands their appreciation for Brian. One of her favorite artists is Lana del Ray, who I had never heard of until she mentioned her a couple of days ago and today she got a bit of a kick that she is apparently on Brian's album. For the record, my daughter did like about half of TWGMTR

Why are people so concerned that the "kids" like Brian's new music? He's 70+ years old now. Lots of popular artists are name-checking him/Pet Sounds as an influence, but that doesn't mean his current work will appeal to the hit-making demographic, anymore.  I like "That Lucky Old Sun" and Gershwin and "That's Why God Made the Radio" on their own terms: Songs from Brian at this stage of life for his fans and contemporaries.

Besides, I'll take "B-dub step" over "Dubstep" any day.

Ugh. This is looking so worrisome. Of course it's entirely possible that this will be a success, but things are sure looking quite odd. I think what I will do is quickly throw together a pro and con list about what we've heard thus far.

Pro
-Al on the album
-Blondie on the album
-Previously unreleased songs
-Jeff Foskett is gone, so hopefully his annoying falsetto will be replaced by either Matt Jardine or Brian
-Some interesting sounding material (at least early in the sessions) according to Rolling Stone
-Joe Thomas is on board, so Brian's vocals will likely sound really nice
-Joe Thomas has said that it has a Wild Honey or Carl and the Passions type vibe

Con
-Possibility of having a bunch of guests, some of which Brian wouldn't know if they walked up and smacked him in the face
-As far as we know, Brian hasn't written a single new song for the project (however I'm sure he has reworked things and added lyrics, or so I'd assume)
-Jeff Foskett is gone, which means Brian has lost a true confidant and a crutch; could really bother Brian's morale
-Joe Thomas is on board, so the backing might sound like super lame '90s adult contemporary "dad rock"

Ultimately I think this comes down to whether Brian is motivated to be making good new material. If he's just being shoved in the studio to record duets with people he doesn't know on songs that he doesn't care about, then we are in a lot of trouble. However, on the other hand, if he's been inspired trying to follow up his last number three hit album with The Beach Boys (That's Why God Made The Radio) with a great solo album then maybe we're in for a treat. It's really hard to say.

You're assuming Jeff beck is off the project, I see (fwiw, I concur): pro or con ?

For me the two biggest cons are Thomas being even in the same county, never mind the control room, and the (apparent) lack of new material. Unless I missed something, the last concentrated batch of new material from Brian was composed in summer 2006: TLOS.

I think there are multiple covers for this as the one I was looking at had Eric Church (?) on the cover. I looked again last night. They also mention Brian recorded a duet with Lana Del Ray (the other name I couldn't remember). So that's three duets with young hot shots. This is shaping up to be the most guest stars since "Getting' In Over My Head". I'm on the fence about stuff like this. I'd rather just hear Brian with a choir of Brians behind him, but we haven't heard the songs yet so who can judge? I guess I'll buy the issue and transcribe the paragraph here if someone else doesn't beat me to it (although I hope someone does, I'm not crazy about Rolling Stone magazine in general).  ;D 

Oops! Sorry, some of what I wrote had already been mentioned. Having just looked up info on Zooey, Kasey and Lana, I can safely say this'll be Brian's sexiest album.  >:D

Oh well..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE6wxDqdOV0

Zooey Deschanel is super good looking.

Joe Thomas has at least contributed positively, during C50's bringing together of the band in a workable environment, and one in which BW seems comfortable. While we might not like his production style and drenching of recordings in auto tune etc, TWGMTR is a reality most of us appreciated.

He just needs to restrict himself to roles he's good at, and no more.

Make him fixer, get Paley in as co-producer, Paley, Bacharach and maybe Scotty B. as co-writers (VDP seems estranged), and the rest of the gang (BBs) as lead and backing vocalists.

Perhaps.

I'm encouraged that Don Was has been a part of it. 

He's been mentioning this rock 'n' roll album since 1998 (maybe earlier). I know it's par for the course at this point, but the fact that Brian couldn't remember the name of the song or even the name of his duet partner....
All of Brian's solo albums suffer from "too many cooks in the kitchen" syndrome but this one's shaping up to be a doozy. I'm still looking forward to it because I know Brian will be in there...somewhere.     

They're throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. This is gearing up to be a mess.
I was optimistic when photos first started coming out but now I'm not so sure.

Is it definitive he's recycling entirely old material?

The Zooey duet makes me think of her duet with Buddy in "Elf." Brian has a childlike quality and Zooey has a childlike quality. It could work, even though I'm not a big fan of hers. The others, though? Not a fan of Lana. She seems like she's recycles the shtick of other pop chanteuses, minus the soul. Though she's more bearable to listen to on a recording then seeing her doing her thing on TV.

I'm surprised that this hasn't generated comment here, considering who his primary collaborator has been for over 2 years...  Just another random Brian comment?

Brian should  work with Brian Eno...

i did a quick relisten of both those albums a while ago and couldn't believe that there was actually autotune on Gershwin! granted it was much more subtle than TWGMTR. but yeah, TWGMTR is bar none a huge squander. i still can't believe the 'Eye of the Tiger' guy contributed to its title track. nor that brian had absolutely no say on the final track list.

it's not so much the 'kids' as it is 'the outside world (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMZxona5az4&t=300s)', and it's not so much that they dislike him, but demerit him. sure, we know there's good and inspiring stuff on TWGMTR, but how will anybody else know in 20 years?

we know that brian has been unplugged from music for decades, and is ignorant to everything that's happened since 'What a Fool Believes'. he's said in interviews that he's open to collaborating with anybody who approaches him. we know that pretty much everybody in the 'music with longevity' world would jump at the opportunity to work with him. so why is he working with top 40 shills? whose idea was it? hopefully this will come a bit more clear, and it won't end up being another 'well, my wife melinda and collaborator joe thomas thought the marketing might guarantee me a #1 album! good plan huh?'

appak, I'm enjoying your posts. Your opinions appear to be in touch with reality. Keep writing!

Lana del ray is on Brian's album , wow

This is getting bizzare

New Brian Wilson album? Beach Boys? Enjoy these times........... :)

It's not just you.  It's just that a few people got stuck at GIOMH ten years ago, and keep carrying on like everyone and their brother obviously agrees with them.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Brian is responsible for bringing Joe Thomas back.  Melinda sued to get rid of him and having put herself through that, I can't see wanting a repeat.  If Brian doesn't like what Joe is doing, he must be sucking it up in hopes he'll get another minor hit like "Imagination," which gets played on store Musak years later.

Lana Del Rey who?

If this is a duets album, I won't buy it.  Probably won't even listen to it.

Guess we'll never see that Rock & Roll album Brian promised us years ago....

And there we have the nub of the gist.  How dare Brian try to make an album for "the outside world" when he should be making them for us?  Why should he try to reach people now when all that matters is what people think in 20 years -- which again, really means us, since obsessives like us are the only ones who really bother to review albums twenty years on?

This is one of the big mistakes fans make -- not just Beach Boys fans, but fans of everything:  the appeal to the judgements of posterity as if that's all that matters.  When in fact the only way people will have an opinion on an album in twenty years is if they buy the damn thing in the first place, and listen to it now.  (Which, thanks to Brian coming off of a #3 album with his band, there actually is a better-than-normal chance of more people than normal doing at the moment.)  And if the combination of a biopic and Lana del Rey will get them to buy it, there's no shame in that.

Or rather, the only shame is if the song isn't good.  But after Brian's five-album hot streak in the past ten years, I think they've got a pretty good chance of managing that.

You moan about Brian recording a song which came out of a session with Jim Peterik?  Well, if that single convinced people to buy the album and thus discover "Summer's Gone" -- it's a win, in my book.


Again -- I don't care, if the song is good.  Was it someone else's idea to remount Smile?  To take the Royal Festival Hall commission?  To tack on a Gershwin deal to the Disney one?  Are these all ideas that a depressive homebody wouldn't have come up with on his own, and he'd need some encouragement to seize the opportunity?  No problem -- they're still good ideas.  Fundamentally I don't have a problem with Brian employing people to be more savvy than he is!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I'd say "shut up and listen before you judge it".

Though "'60s relic works with a bunch of younger artists who've been influenced by him" has worked for everything from Sinatra's "Duets" to "Genius Loves Company"...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Hey, the songs might be nice.

I wonder if when Sinatra did "Duets" if he was aware of who most of the people he sang with, were? 

i'm just trying to decide if this is REALLY FUCKING WEIRD or just something legends do.

When something like this looks so strange (Why in the hell would he record a song with Lana if he can't even remember her name? Ridiculous)... when something looks this strange, and I can't figure out why, I just remind myself that they all live in Hollywood.  Maybe this is how people do sh*t in Hollywood.

I really wish people wouldn't act like their ignorance of a successful artist reflects on the artist rather than them...  :-/

I'm not particularly a fan of her, but she's a really interesting choice for Brian to collaborate with (even if it was someone else's idea).  She's described her style as "Hollywood sadcore" -- big, sweeping, old-movie influenced, but with some modern production.  (She cites Nancy Sinatra as a major influence.  Also David Lynch -- she covered "Blue Velvet".)  The tracks of hers I first really noticed were "Young and Beautiful" on the "Great Gatsby" soundtrack, and her moody take on "Once Upon A Dream" in the "Maleficent" trailer.

Her hit singles were of course massively remixed to make them way less interesting.  But if someone on Brian's team thought a singer known for a melancholy take on the California dream would be a good match for one of Brian's songs... to me that suggests we could be getting some interesting songs on this one!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

you misinterpreted my point as 'why doesnt brian make music i like' rather than 'why were the things that made this album bad were in the end so trite and easily preventable' or 'why isnt brian (or whoever may be advising brian) making better decisions than he could be'
no, it scared more people away. which is sad, because it almost didn't. that's my beef.

ultimately i guess it doesn't matter whose idea it was for these things. if it was BDW's decision to put on autotune, then the blame would be on him, wouldn't it? and what would that mean? nothing, because either way, the joke's on me for not being able to enjoy the music he created because of a single bad decision.

one thing i've learned from TWGMTR is that i shouldn't set my expectations low, i should set them at 'almost'. i'm expecting it to be another fantastic brian wilson album with either bad production (by precedence of joe thomas) or bad vocals (by precedence of deschanel/del ray)

Lana Del Ray's annoying. She's basically all 'style' and not a whole lot of substance.
She's also one of those people who decides to lazily mumble her songs instead of actually singing, probably under the guise of being "cool" and a "seductress."

I don't know how she would fit in at all.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

That's my guess, too. Same with Zooey.

Probably because that rests on the premise that "Radio" was a bad album.  Which goes right back to the "music I like" bit.


False premise right there, I'd say.  Given that it charted higher than "Smile", the number of people scared away would have to be pretty minimal!  "Radio" clearly did more good than harm for Brian's career...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Fogerty just released a CD with various artists covering his songs.  It was successful.  Maybe that would work for Brian.

Wait. It's been done.

I realize it's probably the  record execs who ultimately decide this stuff, but seeing creative "artists" like John Fogerty doing the same old tired sh*t (an album of people doing his hits!  yay!) screams 'sell out'.  He's so great, stuff like that is so beneath him.

Everybody should be more like Prince.  in every way.  They should wear purple as a sign that they've finally got with it.  f*** I'd be happy if everybody was more like Beyonce, release a whole album with no promotion and a music video for every song.  That's creative. 

Fogerty should raise the price on the album to 50 bucks.  Hell at least THAT would be creative.  This sh*t has been done, literally THOUSANDS of times. 

More ways to be creative:

Record a cover album of all your hits, sung by 5 year olds

Release a Hanukkah album.

Release a Halloween album.

Make an album that's half songs about the horror of death at Treblinka and Auschwitz, and the other half is Nazi inspired march music.

Tap into the dirtbike market like Dennis tapped into the Surfer market. 

Do creative duets, like have Vanilla Ice sing backup or your high school music teacher playing piano. 

Record an album in your house with every room inspiring the song that was recorded in it.











You've got a legend like Fogerty who's been around for 50 years and the best he can think up is "Hey!  I could have young people sing my old songs!"

Unfortunately Ron, it seems like the public will eat this sh*t up. Case in point, look at the recent Lionel Richie album, Tuskegee, which was a duet album of country-style reworkings of his old hits. It got him a big hit album though, which he very likely wouldn't have had if he put out an album of brand new material solo. And I hate to say it, but same with Fogerty. That new album you're speaking of charted higher than anything he's done since Centerfield.

However, for Brian Wilson, I don't think an album like this would be a hit. First off, Brian's albums, outside of BWPS, don't sell much. Secondly, The Beach Boys tried something like this called Stars and Stripes Vol. 1 and it went all the way to number 101 on the charts. Although, and I don't wanna give Mike Love any ideas, if a reunited Beach Boys did a duets album of some classics and deep cuts these days, I bet it'd go top ten! And most importantly, even though this album seems like it might be a duets album, it seems to be previously unreleased songs. At least some of them. I do remember that the song with Blondie Chaplin was said to be "He Come Down" or something before that was "taken back" as not being true or whatever. But maybe it is. Maybe the album is partially previously unreleased songs and partially re-recorded duets or something? Who knows?

I would say, however that if the album is gonna be like GIOMH and be partially duets and partially unreleased older tunes, they should instead split the ideas into separate albums. One album of duets and then one album of "regular songs" (and stuff with Al and Blondie).

So where is it stated the album is recycled / old material / covers? Because I must have missed that if so.

As for the collective freakout here, I'm not sure what it's about. Before Imagination came out in 98, everyone went nuts because Beck was on it. Beck! (As in Hansen, not Jeff.) Turned out, it was Greg Leisz, the guitar player who had appeared on Beck albums.

This entire Lana del Ray business is based on one offhand comment in an interview that has been verified by no one other than the OP, and which I took at first to be simply a parody post.

When we see track listings, when we hear samples, that will be the time to make judgments. Because Brian, by my estimation, has put out consistently good material since 2008, if not before. That includes at least four studio albums. Two of those had a bunch of original songs on them that only BW could write (including one, FTTBA, that was a certifiable classic and newly penned). If the album is good, if the songs and productions and arrangements are cool, the guests won't matter. If those things are awful, the guests won't save it.

Hey Wirestone, I think you are one of the best and most sensible posters on the board, and despite my part in somewhat downplaying the album, I do still hope for it to be great.

However, it has been common knowledge around here for quite a bit that Brian apparently hasn't written a new song in a while and that apparently everything that's been worked up during is of some vintage (most likely the tapes/files that Joe Thomas was referring to when discussing how TWGMTR was made). However, it does some odd to me that there won't be any recently written material by Brian on the new album. I have to imagine that even if he hasn't necessarily written anything new from scratch, that he's worked up these older bits and pieces into something new that he likes.

Also, I personally doubt that there will be any re-recordings on the album. I mean, it's possible that maybe he might sneak one or two on (as he did with Imagination) but I don't think it's gonna be "Brian Wilson and some very special guests singing The Beach Boys classics" for what it's worth.

However, besides Al, Blondie and some of the instrumental players, I do have to wonder why there are so many people supposedly coming in for duets. We're all pretty aware that Brian doesn't listen to new music, so to have these people he doesn't know of coming into work with him is a bit disconcerting. At least in my opinion. I'd like to think that Brian is doing what he wants creatively, and when I see stuff like that random country chick in the studio a few months ago, or Lana Del Ray mentioned in a Rolling Stone article, I must admit I get somewhat nervous.

And lastly, I do agree that we do owe Brian the benefit of the doubt not only because of stuff from back in the day like the hits and Pet Sounds, but because of the work he's done within the past eight or so years. Based on "From There To Back Again" alone, which I agree is a certifiable classic, I'd say that he still has it. However, I do have to say that although he's done a lot of work recently, some of it truly will just amount to discography clutter, like the Disney album. It had some nice songs, but it was also, to me, an artist just putting out an album to put out an album.

Think you'll find the reason for getting Thomas back on board was more mercenary than that.

Didn't Brian "congratulate" Pharrell Williams for winning the grammy and then "like" his page on facebook? I wonder if that was a grab for another potential modern collab... holy sh*t, this may be Brian's Raditude.

Obviously I haven't a clue why Thomas was brought back, but I'm assuming it's because he has a large backlog of unreleased material recorded by Brian?

Well, to be honest, I would be totally fine with a Brian/Pharrell collab.
I think he did something similar with Bruno Mars and the Red Hot Chili Peppers too...  :-X

I thought last time around it was common knowledge that the 50th tour had got him writing again.  Certainly the reports out of the Jardine / Beck sessions of things like "Metropolis" didn't sound like stuff from the vaults.  Have I lost track of this week's conclusion to jump to?

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I'd never heard of this Lana Del Ray so I youtubed  a few of her songs and found that she's actually quite good. Being someone who hates modern music this was rather a suprise. Let's be thankful Melinda/Thomas aren't foisting the likes of Lady Gaga onto poor Brian.

Daydream time, I'd love to see something like Rick Rubin's work with Neil Diamond on '12 Songs' happen.  A great producer working with Brian's recent/unreleased material and essentially doing a stripped back/Love You sound with it.  The label/deal makers/whoever decides what Brian does now would likely disagree with such an idea but the fans (!) would adore it.

I have everything crossed that the new album will be good.  However it does sound like another GIOMH may be on the cards.  Not in relation to the resulting quality perhaps but just the random collaborators vibe.

I'm still counting everything after TLOS as a bonus :D

I need some memory refreshing. Did "From There To Back Again" originate from the 1997 Imagination sessions or was it written in 2011-12? I thought the only new BW composition on TWGMTR was "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue", of which the catchy chorus was written by Joe Thomas.

I'm not really familiar with a lot of Pharrell's work but Get Lucky and Happy are definitely two of the better songs I've heard on the pop charts in recent years.

Now, assuming the compositions on the new album date from the very late 90s (which we don't know-- apparently Brian keeps on writing new songs and reportedly had a creative burst during the C50)... What would be so sinful about it? It would still be an original album, no matter how old the compositions are.

  Don Was is in on this too?


   Lana Del Rey is good IMO.

Bruce Springsteen's latest album was all recycled material, he even re-recorded two already very well known songs of his (Ghost of Tom Joad and American Skin), he did nothing to hide this fact.  And I thought it was great.  And Bruce is still considered a rock god.  When Radiohead came out with In Rainbows, they included a song called Nude that was nearly a decade old at the time.  There was no criticism towards them.  Now, I'm not comparing Brian Wilson to Bruce Springsteen or Radiohead.  The three couldn't be more different from one another.  But I think because of Brian's mental condition, people tend to fixate on how he chooses to record older songs or recycle his unreleased material when some of the most popular artists do the same thing and get away with it.

This is as hysterical as the thread about Love and Mercy set video leaking out...

No one has any idea how the recordings with Zooey or Lana will be used, nor have they heard them and here we are multiple pages in with the word "mess" being thrown around. The only mess I see is the people on this thread!

Maybe some of the material is being used for the film soundtrack as opposed to his solo record. Maybe it was just for backing harmony (a la Taylor Mills). Maybe it was great or maybe it was crap. Either way, calm down!

I don't know much about Lana Del Ray but do know enough about Zooey Deschanel to know she is a massive fan who was probably blown away to be working with BDW. She's done a lot just by being a fan to turn people onto the Beach Boys and that seems like something that most people here would appreciate. I respect her fandom enough to assume that whatever she did was decent enough.

As quite a extremist on the subject of Brian doing music I like, let me chime in. If this offends anyone, I'd ask they actually read the post, and not just react to it.

Personally this is what I want from a Brian Wilson album. Brian is in complete control. We get songs that Brian wanted to write. Perhaps songs about eating steaks. Songs about wanting to touch young women's legs.

Brian is in complete control of arrangements. If it's all done on synths, fine.

Brian tosses off some out of tune vocals 'cos basically,  he can't be bothered.

Is this selfish of me. Completely.

Am I projecting onto Brian what I think Brian music should be. Absolutely. This projection is based on my favourite music by Brian. Where he's just been left to his own devices

Is this fantasy likely to happen. No. Even if it got to the stage of recording it, he'd most probably get bored halfway through and give up on it.

So here's the choice. Fantasy album which will never happen, or the third in the trilogy of (personal opinion disclaimer) useless Joe Thomas auto tuned drivel.

No contest.

'Cos basically, if Brian recorded himself taking a dump, using a micro-cassette dictaphone, I'd rather have that than 20 TWGMTR albums. Seriously. That monstrosity gave me an aural haemorrhage. I'd rather gouge out my own eardrums, or listen to Oasis, or something equally horrible than ever have to listen to that polished turd ever again

I'd rather have nothing.

As always, I'm happy for those who loved TWGMTR though. One fans Love You is another fans SIP and all that

Well unfortunately, if ever there will be a period of time in which we get a sequence of Thomas-endorsed drivel, it looks as if it'll be now. Because of all the recent work the marketing department have been doing promoting Brian's name through fairly desperate means, and the fact he has a Hollywood biopic with B-list stars coming up, now especially is the time the producers would likely chicken out and make sure it's something fairly straightforward. They already wrecked TWGMTR, an album that evidently could have been a lot better. I still have high hopes because I liked Gershwin, TLOS, and 'What Love Can Do' a whole lot, but those works were very straightforward.

Something made entirely by Brian seems unlikely, obviously, because he doesn't seem 100% with it. I'm not sure if he ever could be these days, but I'd bet if they left him alone he'd probably come up with something, just something totally unreleasable. But hey, I too would cherish a recording of Brian taking a dump over the Joe Thomas productions anyday. I'm sure we all would. We're an odd bunch. :P

Guess they're holding up the album until Lady Gaga can fit a vocal session into her schedule.
This is very sad, the obvious search for bright, shiny objects to get attention.
Brian Wilson is a genius. Nothing more to prove.

Then don't buy it, and you're sorted.

Me, I'm more interested in good music, no matter who's responsible for it -- and Brian's last five or so albums qualify just fine, in my book.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

The item from Rolling Stone: 

    (http://i58.tinypic.com/5f5h5h.jpg)

Space-age bossa nova, you say.  :o

although who on earth is Frank Ocean

I like Frank Ocean and Lana Del Rey but the guest list does seem a bit forced to me. Fleet Foxes could've been great, I don't know... or what about no guests at all? Or maybe do a disco remake of the disco remake of Here Comes the Night with Daft Punk. :)

A Grammy- (and other award-)winning R&B singer and songwriter.

I think the problem with the compositions not being new (and that's something we don't know yet) is some sort of fear that undergrounds our fandom: perhaps this is all fake; perhaps Brian can't come up with a new song anymore; maybe he contributes the smallest part of his collaborations; he lost his range, voice, producing skills. That's the fear that underlies beneath this issue

I have nothing much to add to this speculation except that duets with a host of talented female artists was once very good for John Prine's career.

space age bossa nova sounds cool, can anyone say "Busy Doing Nothing part 2"? 

She also sang at Kim Kardashian's wedding. The third one.

Sadly not related to Billy Ocean.

It's possible that there are multiple albums lined up with Capitol requiring a duets album as part of the deal. Kind of like how he did the Disney remakes to get the Gershwin album...

That would be cool. I'd like to see a solo album with no guest artists (besides Al, Blondie etc)....and a separate Duets EP.

I think Fleet Foxes would have been every bit as forced as the likes of Ocean or Del Rey, and more forced than Deschanel (who, while in my opinion more charming and likeable than talented, is at least a more "pure classic pop" artist). Fleet Foxes sang harmony a lot, yes, but it's a style that doesn't have much to do with Brian. Really they're more akin to the early 70s Beach Boys rural vibe that mostly didn't include Brian. If anything, they should work with Al.

As for a Daft Punk Here Comes the Night, I think that would be great.

Honestly I don't see any collaborations as exciting (Musgraves the most interesting of the bunch, especially if she's co-writing lyrics--she's easily one of my favorite lyricists right now), though I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised. But whatever they want to do is fine. The guy has the right to do whatever he wants. And everyone else has the right to endlessly criticize it before hearing it, then praising it upon release for a while before contrarily deeming it among his best work (until that approach is overplayed and then hating it again). Don't f*** with the formula.

I would like to see Trent Reznor do something with Brian, he has that "dark" style that Brian uses from time to time..aka:Happy Days

A Daft Punk collaboration would be amazing, and both sides seem open to the idea. YET THEY'RE NOT ON THE LIST
I don't mind all these proposed duets, there's no indication the final product will be a disaster. But it does say something about Brian's producers. Maybe they're blowing all their money after getting overexcited about that #3 chart spot but I'm speculating brah

To be honest... I think Pharrell would make sure it sounded good.  Not so sure I could count on Brian to do that in most cases!

My big pet peeve is just rerecording hits.  I don't really mind unreleased stuff, and I wouldn't even mind cover songs of other stuff he's never done... when you re-record your own songs with different people though the only possible reason to do that is for a money grab, and you virtually guarantee that the songs are going to be inferior to the original hits everybody loves.


I had no problems with the Christmas, Gershwin, or Disney albums.  Loved all 3 of them. 

... except on GIOMH, Brian knew and admired all the collaborators!  They're literally having him record duets with people

HES NEVER HEARD OF.

We know he's at least heard of Zooey! "You're a very pretty girl." Hell, maybe they're just bringing in talented female collaborators who also happen to be great looking to pique his interest. Deschanel, Musgraves? I mean... OK, I'm kidding. Kind of. Not really.

Now, if I knew for a fact that THAT was their strategy, I would whole-heartedly support it.  Nothing wrong with that.

I'm at least mildly encouraged that the song titles seem to be NEW song titles... which as stated I have no problem with.  We might have dodged a bullet on this one folks, just imagining Kacey Musgraves singing "I get around" was making me have nightmares.

*Joey

Well, after looking at the "studio notes" posted by Bgas, I guess the people on this thread aren't a "mess" after all, eh Tonebender? Seems like they have a clue what the eff they're talking about.

I'm guessing they're making it up as they go along and the album is very different than what they initially set out to do. Duets was not going to be the album approach at first, but it is now.

Remember when the main selling point of this album was that Al Jardine and David Marks were gonna be on it?

Yeah, it's bizarre. A collaboration with Daft Punk seemed like a dream at first, but what with Lana Del Rey and Zooey Deschanel popping up literally out of nowhere, it almost feels like a possibility now...  :brow

Pharrell needs to produce this whole thing.

Seconded, although it's a bit late.

This is a surreal thread.

Difference is, we knew about the Disney/Gershwin deal from day one. The notion that Brian's singed to Capital for several albums and one HAS to be duets is solely an invention of yours.  :)

One thing is evident - when released it won't faintly resemble what was envisioned in February last year. As far as I can see, it started off as Thing A, mutated gently into Thing B, then took a sharp left turn into Thing C. Not exactly making it up on the fly, but the original blueprint seems to have been jettisoned  some way back along the track. Could be great, could be a catastrophe. Surely won't be insipid.

I'd take really good/bad over dull and boring any day.

I bought two bottles of white wine yesterday, and enjoyed one of them very much during a band rehearsal last night. It gave me the liquid courage to even *attempt* hitting Brian's falsetto as we decided spur of the moment to add Surfin USA to the upcoming gig.

I have the other bottle chilling...and I know I won't have to send it *anywhere* to compliment the eating of a hat. I knew when I wrote that yesterday that I wouldn't have to send the bottle of wine anywhere because there is the truth and there is fiction.

And in this case, as with so much of this thread, some folks insist something is "fact" when in fact, it's not.

So my offer for the ear wax removal kit stands. I'm doing it as a public service.  :)

Because, what is or isn't on the Gershwin or other albums in question really shouldn't be subject to fan speculation when the album was recorded a certain way, and that's the end of the story. Period.

Again, point out the Autotune and I promise to keep the other bottle of wine corked and chilled.

sh*t, I know a girl who adores Lana Del Rey and The Beach Boys...this will be exciting for her.

BRB, gonna start listening to LDR.

Notice the article says "songs in contention". For all we know we may only get one of these duets, but I DO feel like a quintessential old timer not knowing any of these people outside of Zooey Deschanel (which evidently is something I also have in common with Brian).
I'm by no means freaking out. This could be a very interesting album. My gut feeling says that all of these duets will be included because a) the songs may be great and a) the star power (to younger folks anyway) could help sell the album.

If Frank Ocean doesn't make the cut they can title this album "Brian's Angels":Zooey , Lana and  Kasey in silhouette..Brian represented by the intercom., etc

He totally DID think her name was Joey when they did that interview thing, didn't he? Ugh.

Pardon me if this comes off as too blunt or confrontational, or if it upsets or angers folks whom I may have had good and informative exchanges with on this board previously...

It's frustrating beyond belief to see some of this stuff on what could exist as one of the greatest and most informational music-related message boards on the 'net. For the Beach Boys, hands-down, the way this board works when it's hitting on all cylinders is *the best* Beach Boys resource for anyone interested in the band and their music. There are some great people here.

I guess having said that, I do not understand the motivation behind some of us coming on here to critique, criticize, cast doubt on, and in general put a dark cloud over a Brian Wilson album which has not been released or "leaked" to the public in any form as this thread is exploding. Just like the "Love And Mercy" film, which again no fan has seen even a minute of a finished product, yet there is a line formed to bash the quality, bash the cast, bash anything about it...based on nothing of substance.

Let me repeat: Based on nothing of substance. Unless substance equals on-set still photos and an iPhone video, and studio photos and reports of Brian with various musicians.

Is it asking too much to perhaps wait until we can actually listen to the music as a finished product before bashing it and questioning who is involved with it?

If the motivation is to simply bash Brian Wilson in general, at least engage a discussion or debate or critique something which actually EXISTS and for which we can base opinions and critiques on the actual product rather than basing it, in the case of the upcoming album, on *nothing* but assumptions and speculations.

Let me also say from a musical perspective...some of the comments on the artists who have been involved so far says something about the commentators.

If people need to "Google" Zooey, or Lana, or any of the other musicians to find out who they are...I'd suggest holding off on any kind of criticism or attempts to diminish them in some way, if that's what was going on. It's silly, it's petty, and above all suggesting they are there for some reason dreamed up in fantasy land rather than even knowing the story of how they came to work on the album is off-the-charts ridiculous.

Let me air this out again: This is a terrific board, and I guess I'm one of those who can't understand the motives behind coming on here and posting long critiques on films no one has yet seen, and an album no one has yet heard, and also writing things about certain artists who were unknown to some here until doing a Google search.

It just seemed so ridiculous I couldn't bite my tongue as I read the last 3 or so pages, and saw a replay of the film thread, only worse IMO.

But one positive could come from this...If you're here already declaring the upcoming film a bomb, and the upcoming album an autotuned disaster, you'll have a chance to save about 25 dollars US to use to buy something else.

I mean, why bother to buy a ticket if you know the film already sucks, and why buy the album if you already know what it sounds like? Don't spend money to confirm what you already know, save the 25 bucks! Simple as that  :)

This album is going to blow. Looks like he's going the same way as Ray Davies, John Fogerty, etc.

  Rick Rubin would be the perfect choice to produce a Brian Wilson album. I am not a "technical" music person but anyone with ears would question the competence of Joe Thomas after hearing that awful live album from the 50th anniversary tour!

Rubin would never work with Brian. He knows it just wouldn't work.

The answer would seem to be "yes, it is". BTW, you forgot to factor in "people who invent stuff out of thin (and likely hot) air".  ;D

We have officially entered the twilight zone.

I also said "It's possible", indicating that it was a theory, not a statement of fact. But it's also true that it came out of thin air. Just like most other theories and preliminary reviews of an as-yet unreleased movie and an as-yet unreleased album that we've seen on this board the past few weeks. :)  I may not be as educated on the band's history or count any of them as friends like yourself, but I am professionally involved in the music industry and have some idea of how this stuff works. I'm not trying to be argumentative towards you or anyone else so please don't take it that way. I'm just trying to steer the conversation away from the somewhat knee-jerk, emotional responses we've been seeing of late, as so eloquently discussed by guitarfool2002.

Anyway, here's what we know:

Brian resigned to Capitol. Brian has an album coming out. We know that in 2 years in the studio, he's involved at least 3 Beach Boys, his usual band, Don Was, Jeff Beck, Joe Thomas and Matt Jardine (who recorded scratch/guide vocals). And a few interviews have now confirmed vocal collaborations with very established pop artists that tend towards the indie side.

What else do we know that Brian is working on?

Brian has a biopic coming out. This is a biopic about a musician so at the very least there will likely be a pop soundtrack and there may also be a release of the actual film score (which is being done by this guy - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1589604/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr9). We've heard from a first person source that Darian is doing a bit of work on the music for the film. I'd guess he's handling some amount of "secretary" duties like he did for BWPS, but that's just a guess. Now, will the other members of BRI allow Brian to license the original recordings for a movie they may not be on board with? Who knows. But I'll bet that the pop soundtrack will be a Capitol release as well and if they don't use the original recordings, then there's more music that Brian and his team will be figuring out.

Finally, note that the end of the RS quote from Brian says, "This project", not "This album". So, when Brian refers to a "project" which has resulted in 2 years worth of studio time logged with a number of collaborators on the production side, a number of vocalists, a variety of instrumentalists and multiple studios (let alone whatever he has setup at home), and potentially a variety of releases/outlets, I don't immediately assume that we're getting a duets album full of songs solely from 1998 or make judgements about the quality of something I've not heard.

Anyway, I'm happy to eat my hat when I'm wrong in 6 months.  ;D

It does seem a little odd that no photos have been released of his duet partners, whereas in the past, some photos were taken at sessions with a guy named Shane, for instance. I wonder if Brian was in the same room with his duet partners. It isn't necessary, both Sinatra and Tony Bennett recorded duets for their duet projects without being on the same continent, in some cases. They might also not be certain if they will even use these duets.

Album? What album?

I'll believe there is really a new BW album when I can torrent it.  ;)

According to Brian interviews at the time, he wrote both "Bill and Sue" and "Shelter" as he and Thomas were prepping the album. According to Thomas, "Think About the Days" was written specifically for the boys as BW was pitching the album to them (Thomas wrote the chords, Brian did the melody and vocal arrangement). According to Mike and Joe, "Isn't It Time" originated as a jam session in the last few days of recording for the album (one of the reasons it was reshaped after the album release). Joe also said specifically that of the suite at the end, FTTBA was the one newly composed part.

In other words, regardless of what the "common knowledge" may be, nearly half of TWGMTR was newly written for the project.

With all that being said, we have confirmation of at least one old song being used ... "Last Song" is a Landy-era track, if I'm not mistaken.

Well there you go making sense and stuff.

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/119697302571132106/

Thank you.

Nice! You go, Brian!

Guitar Fool this , to me, is a well thought out message, and I don't think I could articulate it as well as you have , but I would like to add some thoughts , as I have read this entire thread.

There is a wealth of information to be gleaned from this board; however , I find it remarkable that some folks are condemning a record they have not heard one note of , that  hasn't even been mixed down or even completed yet. Brian will be 72 in less than two weeks and is still in the studio working. Does he have an agenda ? Unequivocally yes. He wants to hear his songs on the radio; that's his internal barometer that gives him satisfaction. These younger artists that are guesting on this records are all fans; and there is reciprocity ; Brian will sing backgrounds on their records in the future....And he certainly enjoys the praise he gets from them and loves the support from these younger folks; who wouldn't ! Now I can't even pretend I know much about any of them other than Zooey Deschanel , who was at multiple SMiLE concerts in the U.K. as well as the U.S.   I had to google the rest , like probably half the posters here over 50. And I couldn't identify any of them in a police lineup; but I am not the target audience. Anyone who is guesting own this record is a fan of Brian's , so why not take advantage of that and try and expand the audience ? One thing is absolutely certain ; GIOMH it ain't !  If you want to hear Brian and Al sharing lead vocals , you will like it.  If you want to hear Brian and Blondie sharing lead vocals , you will like it.  If you liked Brian's vocals on TWGMTR , you will like it. If you liked the background vocals on TWGMTR , then you will like it. If you don't like any of that , then you won't like this record.  It's really different. Cheers Ray

God forbid they introduce him to new people.

Seriously, if his co-producer hears this "haunting" piece of Brian's called "Last Song" and says "Y'know who'd sound good on a piece like this?  Lana del Rey", and introduces Brian to her...  This would not be a problem for any other artist.

The only reason to diss it would be if the results are crap.  And we won't know that till we hear it.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I don't think brian has any agenda and he probably didn't ask any of the guest vocalist to contribute to the record, it's possible brian wouldn't be bothered to make another album if his people didn't ask him to.

All of this was somebody else's idea, probably Capitol records. All we can do is trust in brian and hope he continues his run of fine records.

I personally find it a bit cheap to pair brian up with these singers he probably doesn't appreciate (musically) , but that's the business he's in.

That's the funny--and pathetic--part about this board. Nobody has a clue whether Brian does or doesn't musically appreciate these people (whether or not he knew them before these sessions being irrelevant on that), but instead they're projecting their own ideas about who they want Brian to be. And if, god forbid, Brian doesn't live up to the Brians-of-Dreams (and let's be honest here, there are many ideal Brians to people around here), then let's all get up in arms about how he's being mistreated, or sold out, or manipulated, or how he's lost his willpower.

Why mightn't Brian appreciate the people who have been named? In Musgraves and Ocean, we have Grammy-award winning songwriters. Don't you think Brian appreciates good songwriters? In Del Rey and Deschanel, we have people who sell music (and TV shows and movies). Don't you think Brian appreciates successful artists? I mean, he always has before.

It wouldn't be surprising if he hadn't really heard much, if any, of what they've done before. But it's moot. That doesn't mean he might not enjoy working with them. And if it helps sell records--or even just tickle the old guy a little--who fucking cares? Does the album have to be nothing but septuagenarians to be "authentic," as if that meant anything?

It's more a matter of the record taking a long time to do, partly due to a tour with Jeff Beck that turned out to have some bad PR via Beck, after it was over. Then the fact that the project seems to have changed directions.

People will say what they want no matter how many people try to quash it with condescension.

And, there's the common denominator. Doesn't matter if Brian is THEIR fan. They are HIS fans.

There's this persistent, truly naif notion that great artist A + great artist B leads to great material. It ain't so most of the time. Never been so for Brian. I couldn't care less for the guests, really.

  They did the same thing with John Lee Hooker on his later albums (mega guest stars) but he was at his best alone or with a small band.

B-Dub + hot chicks = Pleasure Island

Mark my words.

Ray,

Have you listened to any cuts from the new album and when do you think it might come out?

The other equally specious premise is that if Brian did a duet with someone like, oh, I dunno, say, Paul McCartney, that will guarantee a certain degree of sales as there are Macca/Beatles fans who will buy anything releases.

How very unlike us.  ;D

Possibly. Possibly not: the announced title from CATP is apparently not the same song.

Love the final paragraph of your post because this is how it always seems to work, sometimes even for myself, I'll admit that.

Daft Punk might make HCTN sound even more late-70s than it does in its Light Album incarnation. Over the prolonged instrumental part in the middle they could have BW talk something very commonplace about his work, like "We wanted to bring some love to people, spiritual love, you know".

Dear. God. No.......... I truly admire the folks on here who are willing to give this all a chance... But let's be real... This is terrible news... All we all really want is one more album of Brian Wilson... That's why we're here... With the way the record industry works, I don't see how anyone realistically thinks we're getting "3 albums" any time soon. Whether we'd like to admit it or not, this may be one of the last albums we get from Brian. After having to sit through the Disney and Gershwin albums, despite their brilliant moments, it is truly disappointing to discover we could be getting another album with an "angle." this is clearly not going to be BW's final opus. It's the Joe Thomas show, let's be honest. Anyone who thinks we're getting something like the Carole King version of Good Kind Of Love better not hold their breath. Get ready for a new kind of bad.... There will be attempts at modern radio production that make TWGMTR's autotune pale in comparison. Someone said Twilight Zone. This is not good. They would not be calling in these artists for background vocals. There is a specific goal in mind here....I'm sure there will be a few great moments musically, but I'm literally cringing imagining the singers involved. One of the things that still blows me away about the BBs is the honestly in their delivery. Do we all know what the term "affectation" refers to? Zooey, Lana Del Rey, maybe you guys aren't familiar with these artists... Maybe I'll be proven wrong... It's Grammy bait, it's lame, it's cheese, it's disappointing. I'm bummed. Hate to get so negative, but I'm sorry this is like my worst nightmare. Dream album: Brian, Mark Linnet, and the wondermints plus Justyn Wilson and Al and Matt Jardine on BG vox doing the Life Suite.... Nightmare Album: Joe Thomas at the boards with his straight out of the 90s drum sounds COWRITING a duets album with a bunch of singers that I don't care about at all. Argh. Duets?! I mean Brian would be thrilled at a hit album, but it's just not my taste. And I just don't see it really being his baby. And I know it's not written in stone that it's a duets album, but trust me, they wouldn't be calling in these artist if it weren't for a Santana style grab at Grammy.

Ugh, Santana might be a fitting comparison, conceptually. We'll see...

Let's be honest to ourselves, Brian's not going to release another Friends or Love You or whatever your favorite "quirky BW" album might be. Not even another BW88. What's the last album that truly was "his baby"? It's hard to say and at this point I think it's tiresome to speculate. Some of the songs on TWGMTR show what he's still capabe of as a writer and his lead vocals were pretty good on the two Disney records. At the very best, his next album is going to show traces of that. The man will be 72 in a couple of days and overall I'm glad he's still around.

Okay, so we haven't heard any of the new album yet, but how many collborations between any of the Beach Boys and other famous musicians have been any good?

off the top of my head, only Al's efforts with Neil Young and David Crosby had any kind of musical enjoyment for me.
And Willie Nelson on the Stars & Stripes CD.
And I like Little Richard on Happy Endings.


But how about the duff ones:

Stevie Wonder?
Bob Dylan?
Paul McCartney?
Elton John?
the rest of the S&S album?
Arec Bardwin?
The Four Seasons?
The Fat Boys?


I would love for the collaborations with LDR, Zooey, Frank Ocean etc to be brilliant songs, but i'm not getting my hopes up. As for the Santana references, Brian's already had his Clive Davis moment. It was his Christmas album.

The McCartney and Dylan "duets" puzzled me because in both cases Brian's partner contributed no more than what, two lines of singing in total?

Let's be real...  this is pure prejudice.


So your worst nightmare is Brian working with a bunch of younger artists who are fans of his...  but your dream is for him to work with Wondermints.

Check, please,
Jon Blum

Pardon my incredulity, but you are aware that Wondermints* have formed the core of Brian's band for over fifteen years, and that Mark's been his engineer for longer than that ?

[* correct, no definite article, as Darian told me years ago.]

You mean like when Brian released three albums between 2004 and 2005? Or three albums between 2010 and 2012? Or how it's been stated that he has three albums worth of material with 2 years of recordings done? And how he has a biopic in post-production that will likely need a soundtrack to go with it?


It's also been the Brian show the whole time, with Don Was taking part at some point as well.


The auto-tune on TWGMTR (exempting the IIT single remix) is actually done very subtly. There's one particular moment in TLOS where the auto-tune jumps out far worse than anything on TWGMTR. But hey, it's not like there was any pitch manipulation on a single from Brian's magnum opus...or was there? And it's not like Brian has gone on-record with recording magazines stating that he doesn't mind auto-tune...or has he?


Like when they sang about surfing or when they sang about drag racing on songs that were co-written with outside artists (one of whom was a radio DJ)?


Does this sound like an artist out for a Grammy or a radio hit? Or, does this sound like the closing track to an album by an artist who has repeatedly gone on record saying how she's inspired by Brian? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh4l2cubkAQ

Here's an interview w/ ZD talking about the song in question:




So far we've seen no pictures of Joe at the boards and only pictures of Brian at the boards. We also know that Brian recently stated he's done working with collaborators other than Scott. And we know that there are shared vocals with Al and Blondie, with Matt Jardine handling a good portion of backing vocals. And we know that he's recorded some vocals with a number of artists that hold him in the highest esteem, much like The Wondermints (as has already been so ably pointed out).



Brian's got two Grammy's. I don't think he feels the need to "grab" another one just to validate his career.

Proof if proof be need be.  ;)

Fair enough. :-)

.

.

I didn't even touch on LDR nor did I equivocate one artist sucking with their classic period. :) I was making a point about "honesty" in delivery. There was an inherent affectation to what they were singing about then. My point was to give a bit of perspective as the affectation in no way detracts from the vocals, melodies, the iconic imagery or the arrangements which I love.

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Hah! It's true...Mike really does believe every word that he sings at this point, as long as there's no lyric mentioning crows and cornfields. :-) Really, I didn't mean it to negate their accomplishments, just to provide a little perspective!

Brian Wilson as franchise. Dear God.

Yes ; I don't know the release date but I would think sometime this year.

His modern day surf songs are as honest as Billy Mays pitching oxy-clean..... ;)

I can't wait to hear them! ;D

He's been a franchise since, what 1970? When Mo Ostin insisted on a certain percentage of BW productions per album. And how about the Brian's Back campaign?

:)

Reality check: GIOMH was largely old material either reworked or re-recorded (mostly in about a month). It also very nearly didn't get released at all. BWPS was overwhelmingly decades old material that had been worked up in concert by the time they went into the studios for two months, tops. WIRWFC, again old material/recordings bar two tracks: total time spent in the studio, eight days. My point, such as it is, is that the circumstances of recording those albums differed greatly from the current project as the current opus has been underway for some 15 months and has changed direction at least twice in that time. Similarly, the Gershwin and Disney albums were both recorded in weeks, not months.

I'm guessing Thomas took those shots.  ;D

Or Melinda or Scott or any other number of people in the studio. ;-)

Well I plan to go into this album with the same exact expectations I had with the Beach Boys' reunion: none.  I ended up really liking That's Why God Made the Radio.

So are fleet foxes, frank ocean, lana del rey, zooey deschaniel & Daft Punk actually likely to duet on this new album? Has this info come from rolling stone mag or is this a wind up? I flicked back through the thread but can only see Zooey and frank ocean mentioned in a scan of the RS article. Or maybe that has been photoshopped?! Frank Ocean sounds like an April Fool to me. I love Brian Wilson. I love Frank Ocean. But duetting? Mmmm ... That said, at least there are some interesting artists potentially involved.

I'm not a massive Fleet Foxes fan (although quite liked first album) but I would love to hear their harmonies arranged by BW. That could be worthwhile.

Listened to the FF album and wondered if it was all a big wind up. Nothing special at all.

And don't forget his first solo album.

Which album???

I enjoy their sound (and they're great live) although (as I've said before) so much of it sounds like variations on Well, You're Welcome and other Smiley-era vocal exercises.

Their style of harmony blend isn't BW's usual style but then there'd be no point having them going to the trouble of guesting if they sounded just like the BBs or the BWBand.

Though then, of course, no-one has actually suggested they are lined up to guest on anything (thought I'd better get that in before AGD does!), though speculation on this board occasionally becomes fact.

Frank Ocean: Hadn't heard of him until his name appeared in this thread.  Googled one of his vids on YouTube. Lots of "blankety-blank" in the lyric, naked chicks in the vid, smokin' something that wasn't tobacco, and plenty of other lyrical and visual drug references. Them youngsters are going to be a bad influence on us middle-aged clean livin' Beach Boys fans!

well Paul McCartney and Brian should do a duet called "The girl was mine but then you stole her."  :lol and YES Mike Love sings the song "Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen." with a lot of feeling and passion. ;).

Well yes, those albums (...and TWGMTR in 2011/12) were recorded in different circumstances with source material that varied between fresh and "less fresh". Although I seem to recall you saying earlier in this thread that you believed the current material being worked on is older as well?

Regardless of origin or gestation times, it would seem that there's probably quite a bit of material that's been recorded, likely of differing quality and, at this point, clearly differing styles. But how you got there doesn't necessarily impact what you do once you are there (unless there was a major budgetary impact). Maybe they go through all of it and find 10 songs that reach a certain quality and cohesiveness to warrant a single release. Or maybe they'll go through and separate it into multiple releases, spaced out over X amount of time. We don't really know, since as you've pointed out, this entire "project" has seemingly changed directions a number of times.

If I'm BW's team and I've got a fall tour, biopic and book to promote over the next 1+ years (probably with an abbreviated spring/summer tour as well), I could think of a variety of ways that I'd make use of 15+ months worth of recording (that we're aware of) to maximize money, exposure and acclaim.

What kills me is that there's no finished product to judge yet, as Ray and guitarfool2002 have already spoken about. Let's see where this all goes and judge the final product then.

Also, Fleet Foxes are pretty darn good vocally, but I'd much rather see Brian work (as a producer/arranger) with a band like Band of Horses. They've been a little uneven throughout their career but their songs "On My Way Back Home" and "Infinite Arms" are fantastic...I'd love to hear what he could with them based on those two songs alone.

Sorry, had a few drinks when I first posted. I think somewhere in that mess of a post I wrote "not my taste" so I guess it is just my own prejudice in a way. As far as the wondermints/Linnet comment I guess I just meant that I'd love a home grown TLOS type album one more time. And yes, my worst nightmare is DEFINITELY Brian working with a bunch of you get artists (esp LDR and FO who are not even in the same musical universe as BW stylistically). I mean hey, maybe Lil Wayne is a Beach Boys fan, might as well get him on there too. This isn't like the idea of a High Llamas collaboration, it's something else. Anyways, just my taste. I don't like olives on my pizza either, but that's just me.

Hey, I'm a huge Brian Wilson fan, how come I'm not on the album?

The question with this album is how much Brian is going to be on it.  If Al and Blondie have any leads, or co-leads, then you have duet partners, it won't be a Brian-lead-only album, which will be a departure from past solo albums.

GOMH had three shared leads. TLOS had a couple.

Just make sure she only gets paid for the 10 minutes she spent writing it, right?  ;)

There's one song on their 1st album I really love, was called "He Doesn't Know Why" I think.

Trouble is, you'e going to have an album where everyone's voice is in better shape than his. Maybe he should do an album of duets with Elton John...

http://www.wmmr.com/music/news/story.aspx?ID=2160943

From Howie's news feed. Brings together some of the latest discussion. Nice video of Brian and Zooey.

Outside T-Pain records and the like where it's used for effect, I've never heard a less subtle autotune job on a record. I don't understand how anyone involved found the vocal sound on that record tasteful or necessary. Thankfully the songwriting and performances were strong enough, but jeezus were the aesthetics awful on much of the album.

There are ways to use pitch correction tastefully and make it 100% undetectable - Joe Thomas has just made it clear that he is astonishingly lazy with this and especially the live album.

Well, that would explain a lot of things...answers a lot of questions...Brian's agenda...

As you can see from my number of posts, I don't weigh in here often. But, I do read it all the time to keep up on things, whatever they may be. I do have a question for AGD, however....  Mentioning that GIOMH almost didn't get released, I have always been kind of curious why it even was?? Being so close to BWPS, it almost seemed unnecessary. I agree it is much flawed. So, who pushed it out there to begin with?

The only album I've ever felt ripped off about buying. Although there are some great moments on there, that first disc is completely unlistenable. That purchase was pretty much $20 down the toilet.

Joe Thomas just sucked all the life out of that live CD. I have cell phone recordings that sound better than anything on that CD. I can't imagine what he was thinking releasing it in that fashion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXE_n2q08Yw&feature=kp

Heh, I remember complaining a lot about the sound of TWGMTR when it came out and cadres of users of this board saying it wasn't that bad and that I didn't know what I was saying.

Good to see that the disappearance of the shiny new sheen has killed that notion.

I'm guessing you've never listened to "From There To Back Again". Because if you had, you'd not be making that statement. Actually, I don't mind RoboAl, but subtle it ain't.

Now, compared with what Thomas did to the live album, the autotune on Cher's "Believe" is subtle.

I still have very little complaints about TWGMTR. I definitely do not like what I hear autotune-wise on disc one of the Live CD, nor do I like that the life & energy was sucked out of the whole recording.

GIOMH was recorded, mixed and mastered by early fall 2003 and was shopped around LA... and everyone turned it down flat. Because it sucked. Scotty Bennett told a fan as much in early 2004, it was posted on the BBB board (where I was then admin) and in very short order I got an email strongly urging us to remove that post. I've been told by different sources, independently, that it was part of the BWPS deal: you release that, you have to take GIOMH too. My favorite comment about it came from a long-term BB fan when I asked them if the mix really was as bad as I was thinking: "nope, it really is everything louder than everything else".

I may get another email for relating this, but frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

As far as noticeable autotune goes, I can handle TWGMTR.  But I still think the heavy use of autotune that has been prevalent in modern times is one of my most hated things in music.  Excessive 80's production have nothing on autotune when it comes to making me cringe.

I just hate the production on TWGMTR all around. Plasticky.

But if someone quoted your post, it'd be preserved even if you edited the original, yes? Then it'd have to be up to the mods, who're generally in favour of freedom of speech and defending the truth?

For what it's worth,  I recall reading the story about GIOMH being tied in with BWPS elsewhere as well...assumed it was common knowledge.

Exactly!

I take it all back, brian is probably a big fan of the opening lyrics to the lana del ray song "cola"

 >:D

You still don't know what you're saying.

musically, brian needs a rick rubinesque reinvention, sans handlers/hangers-on.

I'm guessing you're speaking about the opening line, particularly the "...there's no where else I'd rather be" line. The tell-tale artifacts of fast re-pitching aren't there like they are on say, the opening line of "Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl". Al's performance is pretty tight on this, and there is probably a bit of auto-tune, but it's not what everyone is making it out to be.

Also, Thomas didn't mix either album; he was the producer. The mixing "honors" go to Frank Pappalardo, who handled both TWGMTR and the live album. The auto-tune on sections of the live album, that's a different conversation altogether...

Since when do producers not have final say or influence on the mix?

They do, but in a project like this, they're probably not the one setting retune times on the auto-tune plug-ins...But it will really vary a lot from project to project and producer to producer.

Too bad Rubin has done very little actual work in the last two decades and is paid millions solely to have his name attached to a project nowadays.

He actually produced Lana Del Rey's 2012 single, "Ride". :o

These collaborations sound exciting, mostly because they're completely out of left field. Could the project end up being a complete disaster? Certainly. But the artists involved are talented, critically-respected performers. Would you rather have Zooey Deschanel or Katy Perry? Frank Ocean or Drake? Kacey Musgrave or Taylor Swift?

I agree that they're interesting choices, but who's choosing them?  BTW dont' hate on T Sweezy. 

Probably Capitol, maybe somebody in Brian's band.

I'm staring to turn. While I was slightly familiar with lana del rays music,while listening to her song "born to die" on the way home from work, I started liking the idea of her voice blending with Brian's.

I'm feeling better about this news

I would like to add to this. For the record , I hate the idea of duets, so I was initially in my WTF mode on this idea.  I wouldn't know Lana Del Ray from Marina Del Rey so I was essentially clueless about her work.  But I love the thought of new idea's , which make things fresh and vibrant. And this is certainly different, that is for certain. But when I hear about "duets"; I tend to vibrate, and not in a good way !  But I ask ; does anyone consider "Sloop" or "Don't Hurt My Little Sister" or "Salt Lake City" or "Kiss Me, Baby , for example, a duet ; or rather , is this just an example of Brian , producing those records, juxtaposing the vocals , changing the dynamic on these great songs ?

I guess what I am saying is that I don't consider this a "duets " album ; for example is Alan singing verse one; Brian singing verse two and Blondue singing verse three a duet ; or is it a Beach Boys trademark  switching off on vocals , changing the dynamic of the production ?

Who knows , maybe everyone will be surprised and will like it , and then we'll have world peace !

Cheers. Ray

If the songs are good I don't care if Brian is singing a duet with Charles Manson. "A Friend Like You" sucked not because Paul's voice didn't blend with Brian's, it sucked beacause it was a forgettable dittie. If Paul had guested in "Midnight's Another Day" they would have sounded good together.

Of course, the concept of good songs is very subjective.

As Ella Fitzgerald sang :  it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Agree  .   Just no singing with Stamos please

Dude, I'd love to hear Brian collab with Manson!

Oh Christ on a tandem, NO ! Don't ever do that to me again.

No, I'm talking about every note RoboAl sings, and my ears aren't as attuned to it as some here.

I LOVE BW's backgrounds on tracks by other artists, such as Anton Fig, Neil Diamond, Richard Ashcroft, Spongebob, etc.

Just how many younger artists' albums will he guest on?  I foresee an expensive new section of the collection in the wings!

If the end goal of all of this is to get some modern radio exposure for Brian, I really hope that he's been using the last 15 months to lay down some of the best vocal tracks he's done in the last 40 years. As good as he sounds on efforts like "Someone to Watch Over Me", we listen with sympathetic ears that can adjust expectations accordingly. The Lana Del Rey fan checking out the collab won't be as forgiving to Brian's slurring or breathy performances and probably won't bother to figure out why they should be. I really hope for Brian's sake that this isn't the case and that it's a successful record for him, but yeah... here's hoping the solution is a bit more tasteful than the autotune that Brian was lathered in for TWGMTR/the live CD.

Why was BW's camp so determined on getting it out when they could clearly see nobody really liked it? Much better BW/BB projects had been scrapped or cancelled in the past.

(I feel most of these songs should've been released in their earlier versions. For example, I love the melody of The Waltz but this song was so much better when it was called Let's Stick Together.)

She had a body you'd kill for, you hope she'd take the pill for...

The only news regarding this album that I want to see is the announcement that the release thereof is imminent, i.e., next week.

Beyond that...

I sincerely hope it doesn't devolve into Brian being subjected to working with a bunch of hip today and gone later today, 15th generation Justin Beibers and Miley Cyruses who don't understand or appreciate anything about him or his music and are too self-absorbed and arrogant to acknowledge that the 72-year-old man in question still possesses more raw talent, emotion and genius in the end of his left pinky finger than they possess in the entirety of their combined bodies. 

Like Jeff Beck on his own. He's an amazing guitarist who only gets better over time. But I honestly don't care if he appears on Brian's new album or not. Neither Jeff or Brian need each other to appear on an album by the other for any reason, and both are wholly capable of doing their own thing without each other.

If Al, David and Blondie appear even on a single track, that'd be extremely cool. They're all part of the BB family that has a proven track record of delivering enjoyable results when they work together. Hell, kick everyone else out of the studio and let the four of them see what they can come up with without outside meddling or interruption! OK, maybe a bit extreme, but...

Sorry for ranting and yammering. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread, already in progress.    

There is a world of difference between having family members in a group singing the lead vocals of different sections of a song...

And having a 72 year old and a 20 something trading lead vocals.

That`s not to say it can`t work but people don`t consider the Beach Boys songs to be duets because...they weren`t. Not in the same way at least.

Hm.

Hm, hm, and hm.

The whole affair of recording that album eerily (or is that realistically?) begins to remind me of the assembling 'process' of Postcard From California.

I may be an old age pensioner when that thing finally appears. And Bri will still be talking about recording a blazing rock and roll album after it will be released.

For all I'm more than happy to wait patiently to see what is released – whether it features Abba on backing vocals, the Wombles as producers, Laurel & Hardy as lyricists, George W. Bush as composer or the Andrews Sisters on slide trombones – at the same time I wish for the album you mention, featuring Brian, Al, David and Blondie… and maybe Mike and Bruce.

Always will… being a fan can be as frustrating as it can be thrilling.

That would actually be very cool, but has the lawsuit between Orinoco and Bungo been settled yet? :-D

Duets can work very well on individual songs. Their biggest failing to me is when you try to string a bunch of them together and there's a total lack of cohesion from one song to another. If they can find a way to make it work cohesively then more power to 'em! In the meantime, I'll reserve judgement until I hear whatever ends up being released.

REALITY CHECK: 1. There are no overly audible retuning artifacts nor are there any interval jumps that sound particularly unnatural. 2. The story that has been recounted is that Al sang it line by line, only expecting to sing one bit in the song. Brian was so impressed that he had Al sing the rest of the verse. If it was that pitchy that it necessitated being that heavily auto-tuned (as some have claimed), would he have wanted Al to sing as much as he did? Brian still complains about the pitchiness on "California Girls". 3. When you're in a studio with a talented singer (which Al is, I think we'd all agree) and a very big budget (which this album had), you don't overly rely on auto-tune to get a workable track. You comp multiple takes to create one unified take. This is a fairly easy process in the world of Pro Tools (or any other DAW) and would take little to no time (once you've got the takes to work with!).

To my ears, it sounds like perhaps a bit of light ADT/tape delay (with some cool resultant stereo imaging) sent to a plate reverb with a very smooth decay. For the multi-tracked harmony ("...thinking bout when life was still in front of you") it sounds like they probably used Vocalign (or manual editing) to tighten up the timing. There may be some auto-tune in use on Al's vocals, but it's nowhere near as bad as anyone is claiming. They used the same processing chain for the rest of the lead vocals in the suite.

If you listen to Al's vocals on the re-recorded "California Saga" on his solo album, his pitch modulation sounds very similar (with a very light slapback delay), but without the reverb and stereo imaging that was used on the suite of TWGMTR, so the vocals are more "up front" in the mix.

Speaking strictly about BUSINESS...

I don't think hip artists guesting on Brian's new album will move much more copies or downloads. Brian had his shot after the huge release of BWPS and TLOS didn't change his solo commercial fortunes. Now if he hadn't relesed a solo CD in 30 years it would cause some comotion, but that's not the case.

You are Mike Love and I want my $ 0.34, now.

Would Mike know what a 'download' is?


(http://www.larrystoolrepair.com/Tools/budgit%20hoist.gif)

I think it will depend mostly on the quality of songs we are getting. If a Zooey Deschanel song is a great sounding 'wouldn't it be nice'-esque song, I guarantee the hipster demographic will eat it up and the album will move many more copies.

Also, the big modern names coupled with a promotion machine running full tilt around the time of the Beach Boys major motion picture release is sure to turn heads.

Good point, the hipster demographic is one BW can really be sold to. Sunflower/Surfs Up era BBs definitely gets some attention. I've walked into record stores quite a few times now to see kids my age dressed all hipster-like, rifling through The BBs. Not to mention some online stuff ive read, one website i read named Sunflower the greatest 'unknown' album of all time.

It doesn't matter if it's autotune or "ADT/tape delay (with some cool resultant stereo imaging) sent to a plate reverb with a very smooth decay", either way you dress it up, it sounds awful and is reason enough to doubt the artistic judgement of anyone who signed off for its release.

This is coming from a fan of Kanye West by the way, I just don't hate autotune for the sake of it. It has good applications and bad ones, and it seems every instance where the BB camp has toyed with it, it's fallen in the latter category.

I never understood all the negative fuss about auto tune and other recording tools.  Seems to me that with all the resurgence of techno-pop, a lot of people like music coming through a machine.

But if you think about it, artists and producers have been doing their level best for the past 60 or more years to "improve" the sound of vocals and instruments on records.  People went to great lengths to get echo, reverb, double or multi track vocals, backward tape loops, talkbox, and so on.  New technology allows further tinkering with the sound of records.  Like it or not. 

Unfortunately, a singer not needing autotune is not in any way proof that it was not used. Many artists have proven in more recent years that they will use autotune when they DON’T need it. These are perhaps the most frustrating cases. Some engineers, producers, and/or artists use autotune as if it was as much of a necessity as electricity. It’s there, so they use it. I’m not saying taking a crappy singer and trying to cover it up with autotune is good, but at least it has an obvious purpose there. Not so with good singers who use it out of laziness or because their producer just thinks that’s the “sound” that the industry wants. I *wish* they would just let good singers comp multiple vocal takes, do fly-ins, etc. But many decent or good singers aren’t opting for this route, which I suppose would take more time and skill in some cases.

As to the audible artifacts of autotune, there are a number of very different artifacts. Two of the most common are the odd sort of “interval jumps” mentioned, and the more general “robo voice” effect. The “interval jump” thing happens for instance when autotune is applied to someone who isn’t simply slightly flatting or sharping a note here or there, but sings much more “all over the place.” This is what Brian does, and this is why early live shows on the C50 tour sounded really weird on some of Brian’s leads. The “robo voice” is, sometimes, a more subtle effect. But on some pieces of the  “TWGMTR” album, it’s very prevalent. Several bits of “Spring Vacation” have it in spades (e.g. “we used to get around”, and Brian’s “hallelujah” line), and sadly considering he has a more intact voice than anyone else in the band, all over Al’s lead on “From There to Back Again.” If you can hear it (and as AGD mentioned, even folks who are less sensitive to the effect can hear it here), it’s very obvious. It gives notes that probably weren’t sung flat or sharp (such as “nowhere else” and “rather be”) very robotic characteristics, sucking the life out of the warmth of the voice. There’s really not direct comparison to make unless we had access to a “non-autotuned” version of the same vocal take. Again, the frustrating thing here is Al probably sang it fine without autotune. But it was applied to give it a super-extra-super-duper glossy coating that it didn’t need. Like spraying fifty extra goats of glossy finish on a car that already has a perfect paint job, or squirting the whole bottle of chocolate syrup on your sundae, or, well, you get the idea. 

While there’s no direct comparison to draw, compare Al’s leads on the BB album to his leads on most of the stuff on “Postcard from California.” A lot of, if not most of, the stuff on Al’s album was tracked on analog tape, and without apparent autotune. It has so much more warmth, it’s mind-boggling. Not only do some of the recordings have more aural warmth, but Al’s voice is not nearly as processed. He does use some old-school techniques like double tracking his voice on “California Feeling.”

I think Al still sounds great on “TWGMTR.” But Joe Thomas did proverbially dump the vat of chocolate sauce all over Al on that one. Now there’s a visual!

I will also offer the caveat that we are using “autotune” in the generic sense, meaning any of a number of software program suites or plug-ins that manually and/or automatically corrects and/or alters pitch, notes, etc.

Al did a beautiful job of singing this one, his voice needed autotune like a hen needs a flag.

The thing is, we can be old fogeys and discuss whether using autotune, etc. is less artistically valid and all of that. I gave up arguing that long ago. I don’t think autotune is neccesarily the same as all the 60’s recording techniques and tricks. But setting all of that aside, the over-use of autotune (both to seemingly “correct” singing and its use as an actual “effect”, where it’s meant to be very noticeable)  has simply made music extra monotonous and annoying. It’s being overused and homogenizing music exponentially more than it already is.

It would be like if, after the Small Faces released “Itchycoo Park”, every band used phasing and flanging on every single song on every one of their albums for the ensuing five years. Okay, cool effect, but every song doesn’t have to have it.

Even JJ Abrams once in a while stops using lens flares for a few minutes here and there.

Trey Parker (the creator of South Park) did a Kanye West episode and used the autotune and he said on a commentary the episode that he tried it never having used it before and when he sang on key it wouldn't work so he started singing off key and it worked. so basically he was saying that you have to sound really bad in order to use the autotune and actually make it work right :lol here's the actual commentary...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoIIEisnv_A

That is exactly right...what's been said about Autotune so far. The more the singer is off key, the more the Autotune function will "kick in", and then more of the residual effect will be heard. If you have a singer in perfect key, nailing every note, and you patch that into Autotune using the scale that includes all of the melody notes or even the "all in" chromatic scale setting which has every half-step, you will *not* hear the T-Pain or Cher effect, especially if you have the right settings and sensitivity and attack levels and all of that stuff dialed in just right.

BUT - if you want that exaggerated effect, you can deliberately set certain parameters to deliberately overuse the tuning function, or deliberately remove a few choice notes from the scale so anytime the singer goes between those notes the Autotune detects it as a "bad note" and will try to correct it, which also produces the effect.

I'm far from Kanye West but I have used and mixed with my own Autotune setup, and it is a lot like he describes. There are also less subtle ways to really kick in the effect not only by deliberately singing off-key but also by manipulating an existing track and again tweaking and setting the parameters to give the robotic sound.

But if a vocal track is 98% in tune, let's say a lead vocal, you won't hear obvious Autotune residue...depending on how you set it, the most it might do is something like a very subtle pitch up at the end of a sustained note, where many vocalists trail off and go flat as their breath runs out and they're going to hit another note. But that is really deep mixing and listening, by the time a song is fully mixed most people including pro engineers will probably not notice that.

And consider this: Whether we want to call it a "limiting amplifier" or a "compressor", depending on the use and the model, something like the classic LA-2A or the 1176 compressors were designed to work "transparent", which means if you set a vocal or a bass track through one of those units, it was not supposed to be noticeable to the average person, but was still supposed to trigger and respond to do certain things to that signal.

BUT - Eventually people started to realize that if you did things like push in all the buttons of an 1176 at the same time, it produced a very unique sound (called 'all in' by some) that became as much of an obvious effect as it was designed not to be noticed.

So you got records like "Mr. Tambourine Man" (McGuinn's guitar running through a chain of compressors working very hard), "September Girls", "Go All The Way", even the guitar intro to the #1 single "Last Train To Clarksville" which are deliberately over-compressed to create that signature sound and sheen. You have manufacturers making rack compressors like the "Distressor" which are expensive ways to get that same sound, that deliberate overuse of what was designed to be transparent.

Not to mention side-chains, "ducking" bass and drum tracks, all kinds of that application to deliberately make the compressors "pump" in time to the music when the original designers might have advised against setting it up to pump, because you'd hear what was supposed to be not heard.

For many rock musicians, the over-compressed sound is the sound of certain instruments, from clean guitar (modern Nashville pickers, John Frusciante on songs like Under The Bridge & Californication), to 12-string jangle overdubs, to "rock bass", to drums, to whatever else. Drum N Bass, House, Dance/Club, Reggae...etc.

So deliberately overusing something like an 1176 compressor unit became as popular as an "effect", a deliberate effect, though it was designed to be transparent and unnoticeable when used as a tool to fix or even out a track or signal.

Doesn't that sound a lot like Autotune? Until that Cher record became a smash hit, and someone who produced or engineered that record had the brilliant idea to use something which may not have been considered an optimal result from a studio tool, I think the designers of Autotune thought of it as a transparent tool to do subtle pitch correction on tracks that had just a few notes "off". Just like compressors being used as they were designed versus driving the hell out of them to create a deliberate effect.

Neat stuff. But going way back, a lot depends on the singer's performance, and how in-tune he or she was originally if you're trying to save a full track by fixing a few parts. The worse the original performance, the more you'll detect Autotune even if it's not being used as a T-Pain styled effect.

I wish! Too much hair fortunately.  :)

Fair enough, but come on, the only reason to have Zoey on this album is BUSINESS. Not that she can't carry a tune, and not that her voice will make it a batter or worse album musically...

Since when is Zooey a big album seller.

Brian's first week sales have been on par with her

What you guys are missing with Zooey is, above all, she is a very public admirer of Brian and his music, who like many of us would *love* any opportunity to work with him, or even sit in the studio for a bit to watch him make music. She has covered his tunes, and as a musician herself she has a fan following for "She And Him", and she does write and perform some pretty neat tunes with a definite 60's pop sensibility.

Factor all of that in, I think it's a very cool idea to bring them together in some way on a music project.

Plus, her following is much bigger as a TV actress who stars in the leading role of a series, and she is also a pop culture personality who has a very vintage style and fashion sense that just happens to line up with a lot of people in their 20's and 30's right now.

Her fan base extends into television viewers, music, and fashion, but above all the fact that she loves Brian's music would seem to be good things to consider bringing them together with music.

And I'm still stuck on the historical point of her dad Caleb working with Brian in the Smile era to film that GV promo film, making a connection beyond 2014. If it hasn't been already considered, I think that would be a very cool angle to focus on around their working together on the new song.

For the record, here is Brian and Caleb filming GV "The Firehouse Promo" in 1966:

(http://api.ning.com/files/0GsOkR3zV0JX1Jd*Of*tiwlEyPn-pp3hshb90gCpUuMuvFywJOOMkrijAXyk1GYtpNzcoKvDZRrG*7kGKieCK-30qRPxjdJd/brianwilsonandzooeysdad.jpg)

And here is Zooey, her actress sister Emily, and Caleb in an older family picture:

(http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/15100000/Emily-Zooey-and-Dad-Caleb-deschanel-15164165-435-532.jpg)

And here they are a few years ago with mom:

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/04/05/article-2125643-127B33F6000005DC-441_634x804.jpg)


Again, I think the connection to Brian from '66 is really cool.  :)

Ok, ok. Just make sure that Brian knows it's Zoey, and not Joey.  ;)

Zooey not only covered little Saint Nick on her bands christmas record she also chose "Christmas day", now that was very cool

She also chose the trader and long promisd road on her itunes playlist a while ago.

She's obviously a big fan but I'm not personally a fan of her music or voice.

I think that you're missing my point (or I may be misunderstanding! :))...Not that auto-tune itself has no artifacts but that the most common artifacts aren't all over From There To Back Again. I think people are hearing other things in the mix (such as ADT/tape delay) and mistaking it for what they believe is auto-tune. Don't take this the wrong way since you seem to be somewhat educated and experienced on the audio side of things, but most of the people that call something "auto-tune" haven't spent a whole lot of time (read: any) actually using auto-tune or sitting behind a mixing board. I've listened to FTTBA on more high-end monitoring systems than I care to admit and what people are hearing on there is not what they think it is, at least to my experienced and trained ears.

The very first time I heard "FHTBA", the sheen of autotune was very obvious. It's not anything like as bad as the "live" album, but to anyone with functioning ears, it's evident, as it is on several other tracks. It's certainly not that subtle that my 57-year-old ears didn't pick it up right away. I'm not alone - go back and check the posts here in May 2012.

Whether it's Autotune or something else, it's over-processed. It detracts from the performance. It makes the singer sound cold instead of warm. I'm not a fan of that album due to its cold sound, whether it's due to Autotune or compression or whatever else is used. I don't care for "Imagination," either, due to its plastic, cold quality. I do like Brian Wilson's '88 solo album, and that uses electronic instruments extensively and also has some electronic processing of vocals. But it has more warmth to it. It's how those tools are used in the hand of the producer, and I don't care for Joe Thomas's approach. 

Indeed ? First you tell us most emphatically there's no autotune on the track at all, now there "may" be some. A little consistency, please.

And I never claimed it was bad (the contrary actually), just that it was unsubtle enough for me to catch it.

Here's what I've said:

"The auto-tune on TWGMTR (exempting the IIT single remix) is actually done very subtly. There's one particular moment in TLOS where the auto-tune jumps out far worse than anything on TWGMTR."

"Al's performance is pretty tight on this, and there is probably a bit of auto-tune, but it's not what everyone is making it out to be."

"Not that auto-tune itself has no artifacts but that the most common artifacts aren't all over From There To Back Again."

"There may be some auto-tune in use on Al's vocals, but it's nowhere near as bad as anyone is claiming. They used the same processing chain for the rest of the lead vocals in the suite."

Which part of that is inconsistent? I've said all along there's auto-tune on the record but I've also stated that what most people believe they hear as auto-tune is actually as a result of different types of vocal processing, most of which doesn't have the negative connotation that the term "auto-tune" does.

I definitely agree with your point that some may be scrutinizing the recordings to the point of hearing what they think is autotune when in fact it is some sort of other effect. 

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if someone has cried “autotune” in some cases based on some other effect. But I do think the particular lines I was referencing on Al’s lead on “From There to Back Again” are awash in autotune. To some producers and engineers, this is probably the more subtle side of using it. But I know these guys’ voices pretty well, I’ve been listening to them since I was a kid. It’s pretty ingrained, and I’ve listened to a lot of Al recordings from very recent times; I’ve heard him sing in person and I’ve heard recorded examples of his voice processed a variety of ways. That particular recording has Al’s voice run through some form of autotune which smoothes out his voice until it’s more slick and processed than a slice of Kraft cheese. Still sounds like Al, all the evidence is there that he’s singing a great lead. But it has been needlessly autotuned in some fashion, giving that computer/robot-like quality to his voice.

Now, what others have been discussing, some of the Kanye-type stuff, is different. That is the modern use of autotune as an effect (and sometimes the byproduct being covering up someone who can’t sing). This is the use where it starts sounding more like Frampton’s freaking talkbox or actually more like a vocoder. I’ve even read some articles where the producers of that Cher song from the late 90’s tried to keep their “method” of getting that sound (basically turning autotune up to freaking 11 on purpose) a secret and didn’t mind if people thought it was some sort of vododer-type effect. In any event, this use of autotune is rampant on modern recordings, and is being used to sound very obvious, as an effect.

So when people are saying “if you sing well, autotune doesn’t work”, this is only partially true. If we mean singing a “straight” style of singing, where one is more or less on key and a decent to good singer, then autotune indeed won’t get that over-the-top vocoder type of sound. To get that sound, you probably have to purposely kind of sing rather monotone and flat. Brian’s leads on the early shows of the C50 tour partially got this effect. He wasn’t flatting a note here or there. He was singing like Brian does, which is all over the place. So in some cases, his voice was so “off” that autotune was creating those weird effects. It was more jagged-sounding than Kanye and the like, because it wasn’t meant to get that effect.

Where autotune is used more subtly is to take a mediocre singer, one who generally is on key but has control issues and sometimes sings slightly flat or sharp, and fix those individual notes. Done on a note-by-note basis (rather than the producer dialing it up to full blast for the entire track), this can be done subtly, sometimes almost seamlessly. Kind of more evil and tricky, but at least less obtrusive, and at least somewhat similar to the spirit of old school ideas like “punching in” or “flying in” vocal fixes.

But if you turn autotune up relatively high on someone who is pretty much singing just fine, you get what Al sounds like on “From There to Back Again.” There isn’t a note or two subtly fixed. It just runs everything through and sounds like a very slight vocoder-type robot effect.

That's the thing: when superstar a and superstar b get together to do a 'duet', the performances never suck, but the songwriting often takes a back seat to the novelty of having the two stars on 1 song. 

This isn't a problem with Brian it's a problem all through the music industry.  Put two stars together, it often doesn't sound good.

I've been saying the same thing for 5 years on here Donald.  Save your breath, nobody's intelligent enough to see the similarities. 

If the sh*t's not live in a room with no mic and you standing there hearing it, there's trickery involved.  That's a Fact, Jack. 

Brian's doing less to his voice (or Al's) than he used to.  ALSO A FACT, JACK

Fresh off Brian's Facebook page:

Like I said....Brian's Angels  ;D

Seriously though, I'll eat my hat if all three of these duets don't make the album. They're big names and appeal to the under-35 crowd.

I can dig space-age bossa nova, but can Brian really pull of sassy?


Preserving this for later.

Looking at the 3 stunning ladies brian has been spending some time alone with I wager Foskett has not been missed

"Okay, now shave your legs for the first time"  :-D

this also

Ah, but my hat eating is based on whether they'll be on the new album. I've already said the songs may very well be great for all we know. It would just make commercial sense to include them. Unless they go the "Best Buy" exclusive route and make them bonus tracks like the Carol King duets on TLOS (in either case, no hat will need to be eaten).   

Perhaps we'll have a hat eating contest.

.

Gaaaargh! GAAAAARGH! >:(

The feedback on the Facebook posting has been mostly negative. These are medium to hardcore Brian fans, so I'm not sure who they're hoping to win over with these duets. I don't know if those artist's fan bases are going to be running out to spend a dollar or so on an iTunes download. Maybe they'll check it out on Spotify or YouTube. It makes it somewhat more likely that the middling Brian fan might pass on this album, mostly because it sounds like a muddled concept. Not a duet album (not with only three duets), not a Beach Boys Mach II-minus-Mike-n-Bruce, not a Jeff Beck collaboration. 

You know, if we were hearing early reports of the BW88 album, people would be furious about a project that featured guest appearances from Lindsey Buckingham, Terence Trent D'Arby, Jeff Lynne and the lead singer from the Dream Academy.

There is nothing new or unusual or concerning here. The album will rise or fall on its own merits.

.

Brian Wilson wants to be on the radio, even though he doesn't listen to the radio. At least the radio stations they...er...he's aiming for. He wants a hit. He can't do it by himself. He's proven that.

I remember the Brian "I've never written a single note or word of music because I think it will make money" Wilson. I don't know if HE has changed. Let's just say that THINGS have changed. Simply put, very simply put, Zooey, Kacey, and Lana (oh Lana, oh Lana dear) give him a better chance at achieving that. Actually it's his only chance. And if they don't work, you still have Frankie "I'm a cork on the" Ocean. Hey, what better name to be working with Brian Wilson, the genius behind The Beach Boys.

Nice post, Sheriff, right on the money IMO...and, hell, Brian really should just do what he wants at this stage. If we think and wish and hope and pray he and the ladies will give us some flavors of emotion that might not happen using the usual format. And if it's good and it sells, possibly we'll see BW out there with the ladies, which would be a very nice turnabout for all the years that M&B trotted out Stamos.

Brian wants to reach beyond his already existing fanbase, and have an actual, played-on-the-radio, licensed-to-TV-and-movies hit. Having Lana Del Ray sing on one of his songs gives him a shot, if that song is great (granted, a big if).

He was saying exactly the same thing to Joe Thomas back in 1996-1997. He wants hit records, and he wants them played on the radio. That's the only way Brian can truly measure success. If he truly cared about anything else, he would have never worked with Joe, and he would have deserted major labels decades ago. The fact that he clings to both suggests to me that these things are really and truly important to him.

Eh I don't know what to think.  In the grand scheme of things these collaborations probably don't matter much as Wirestone stated.  Then again I understand the antipathy from Beach Boys and Brian Wilson fans as it's probably more than fair to criticize Brian Wilson for such moves.  In 1983, Paul McCartney caught all types of hell from Beatles fans and the press alike for his collaborations with Michael Jackson some going so far as to term the McCartney-Jackson collaborations as the work of a "desperate pop star looking to remain relevant with modern audiences".  It's worth remembering that Macca was just entering his forties around 1983.  For an artist in his seventies to be collaborating with artists young enough to be his grandchildren is certainly going to raise some eyebrows.

As for the "Brian's Angels" reference.  As a huge "Charlie's Angels" fan, Brian casts out well as Bosley, Murray Wilson as Charlie (giving instructions over an intercom seems to be right up his alley) and we need to find roles for the other Beach Boys as well.  

And in some ways, I find that sad. Not in all ways; of course recording artists want their stuff to be heard. It's human nature. I remember Bob Dylan saying in an interview, and I'm paraphrasing, "I don't want them (records) put in boxes in a warehouse somewhere..." But the way Brian appears so desperate, and in my opinion he appears very desperate, it's a side of Brian that I don't particularly care for.

I still long for the Brian Wilson who recorded music because he had something to say - musically. He made albums to express himself. Repeat - HIMSELF. Not ideas that others were feeding him; his ideas. I don't know if that quote of his about not recording music to make money was entirely true; he was much younger and much poorer then....and more driven. Of course he was recording music for reasons other than art. But don't you think that his art was always at the root, at the heart of the songs.

Why is Brian recording this album? Does HE have anything to say? Sometimes, not all the time but sometimes I wish that if Brian didn't have anything that he really wanted to express musically, maybe it would better to just NOT record an album. Now people will say how do I know whether it's any good until I hear it. You can't pre-judge. Yes I can. People opine that Brian can record whatever he wants and who am I to decide for him what he should record. That's not the point. They are missing the point. Fans are allowed to have expectations or wants or desires of an artist. Most of it is based on history anyway. That's called being a fan, short for fanatical. We're allowed to think and feel anyway we want about an artist or the artist's music. And, hey, wouldn't it be great to proven wrong.

Wirestone, this wasn't directed at you. I just piggybacked on your post to vent. I just felt like saying something. ;D :police:

His chances of getting played on radio with or without these duet partners is slim to none. It's not him, entirely, it's the way the industry works now. What radio format would play his music? The same with the likelihood of getting a chart hit. And even if he gets a chart hit, it would sell in the thousands, not the millions. So, Brian really shouldn't be trying too hard to achieve something that no longer tangibly exists for him or his peer group.

It would not surprise me in the least if it is part of a campaign to raise interest in both the movie and album. Brian plus Al, David, Blondie and Beck equals old guys and less interest.

Brian and some new-blood raises the potential interest in the album plus the young, new listeners may then want to check out that Brian guy's life story on the big screen.

I guess it depends on how you define interest.  Older groups and musicians are still able to draw in young audiences (thereby generating interest) to their concerts year in and year out.  Concerts by popular acts of the sixties and seventies aren't anywhere near the "exclusive baby-boomer" gatherings that some may have predicted them to be and that would include the C50 tour of 2012.  Lots of positive feedback on that tour from ticket buyers of all ages.  Now the draw of Brian Wilson as a solo artist is another matter entirely and unfortunately this very talented musician suffers from the fact that he never really established himself as a solo act during his prime years much like many of his contemporaries did once the successful bands they came up with in the music industry folded.

The main problem is with as KittyKat mentioned is the way radio is formatted today where acts of Brian Wilson's generation has been marginalized to the point of having virtually no presence on the airwaves. 

Something that nobody seems to pick up on...many are going on and on about not liking this move because Brian is shooting for having a hit, but nobody is talking about how this also might mean that Brian just may well be really working his ass off in order to make that happen, not just ' oh, let's get a guest here and not bother trying to sound decent' like he did on GIOMH. Or rather, what was done for him.

Lana Del Ray can't get played on the radio?

Brian could put out records for a coterie audience of long-time fans, like, say, Todd Rundgren does, but maybe Brian still wants what he's always strove for -- popular success. He still sees himself as a pop artist, not a cult artist.

What are you talking about? I just logged on here, read this, then went over to Facebook...

I mean, seriously, if you're going to post reports about what's happening on another site or news feed or whatever else, at least make it an accurate report.

For those interested, the majority of reader comments (just under 175 as of 10:49 EST) in that Facebook entry are positive, excited, some fans of Zooey posted heart icons, some fans of Lana are excited, some folks are completely unaware of who any of the musicians are, some are asking where is Jeff Beck, one person is suggesting Brian is producing *two* albums as we speak, some are posting the same stuff as appears in this thread...

But again, let's at least tell the truth when reporting something from another site not everyone may visit, deal?  :)

I'd personally like to "autotune" this whole thread to remove the errors (deliberate and not), but that's another story.  ;D

This just posted to Brian's Facebook:

If you want to see exactly what the Facebook "response" is to that post, head over there and read with your own eyes, free of errors, inaccuracies, distortions, and the like. It takes a few minutes and will explain a lot.

EDIT: Cyncie beat me to it!  :)

SHOTS FIRED

Oh snap

Who the hell wrote that on Brian's Facebook  :lol

Awesome message

Well done Brian and management!

And it hasn't been anywhere near "mostly negative", but the few negatives there still seem to have struck a nerve, which is a shame. Just like a lot if this thread has been, a g*ddamned shame.

I LOVE BRIAN WILSON!!!

Just for being Brian Wilson!

Good on him!  a shame he still has to fight for his artistic freedom as he says, after 50 years!!!

Stupid People..... and we are the smartest species???.....  ::)

RickB

Who gets the feeling that the person who wrote that post was also aiming it at this board

... Just a thought

I find it incredibly sad that he had to write this. Damn. :(

At the same time, I'm glad to see that he's really passionate about this album!

Be careful not to judge the bullshit of a few agitators to be representative of the majority.  :)

It's rare to see Brian fight back like that - IF THAT IS HIM.
Either way, it's pretty ballsy of them to up and use "f***" in a Facebook post.

For those of you keeping score at home:

Collaborators:
Jeff Beck, (Don Was), (Jim Keltner), Al Jardine, (David Marks), Vinnie Colaiuta ,Tal Winkenfeld, Blondie Chaplin, (Burt Bacharach), Kacey Musgraves, Zooey Deschanel, Lana Del Rey, (Frank Ocean), Matt Jardine
[Parentheses signifies uncertain involvement]

Songs:
"Right Time", "Guess You Had to Be There", "Metropolis", "He Come Down", "Sail Away", "Last Song", "Sharing a New Day", "On the Island", "Special Love", the Life Suite

I stole this from Judd

I think people declaring music they haven't even heard one second of a "failure", a "disaster", or any of the other negatives is considered 100% bullshit far beyond this board and Facebook.  ;D

...and the same thing goes for movies.

For those comparing this (which we have not heard) to GIOMH, I must ask the following...did Brian show the least bit interested in it during the 'promotion' (if we can even call it that) of that album? This is the most hyped I've seen Brian about any of his solo projects, BWPS excepted.

I thought the same thing.

If the shoe fits...

That's true. Plus the fact that I think this is the longest he's ever worked on an album. I do believe we've passed up the Smile sessions...

I stole this from Bubbly Waves

It's a strange contradiction. We love this guy's music because he dared to get out of the box. But, then we want to keep him stuck in the box he made in 1966.

That's a valid point, yes. The fact that no one has heard it yet somehow folks here and on Facebook already know what it sounds like enough to form a negative opinion is infuriating enough for an outside observer. How about the guy actually making the music who is reading this stuff?

good point cyncie!

A very good point.

We should all hang our heads.

Not everyone is doing that, so there isn't as much of a "we", right?

I like it.   :thumbsup

It was a small minority, yes.

But hey, at least I can check "get told off by brian wilson" off my bucket list.

There is most definitely a liberal use of that pitch correction effect going on throughout the reunion album.  Same with their live album.  But if you *really* want to talk about horrible use of pitch correction, look (or hear) no further than Paul McCartney's live album, Good Evening New York City.  Holy crap do they take it to another level...

Except it probably wasn't even Brian that wrote it. 

By the way, has anyone actually told Brian he's working on a new album??? 

I really doubt Brian said/wrote most, if any of that. Why do they continue to do this sort of stuff?

well cause maybe 'others' have Brian's interest at heart....

perhaps he didn't write it, but being Brian, who knows.....

but it sound like someone is 'pissed' just the same,

RickB

Save your money, man.

Well, as silly as that "love & mercy" signoff is, it might as well be Brian. I think it'd be dumb to start speculating this is an attempt by the 'handlers' to prevent negative publicity, especially considering we haven't heard a thing yet. Either way, as stated above, someone's pissed.

Poor Brian, having to read criticism of decisions he din't even make. Did you ever think it might be a good thing that people realize that Brian did not pick up the phone to call Lana Del Rey to be on his album, and maybe he's not that crazy about the idea, either, and the people criticizing or being skeptical are actually in Brian's corner? Brian isn't stupid and perhaps his saying he's not quite sure who Lana is is his way of saying, in a passive aggressive way, help, get me out of here, folks. Brian also told the Irish Times he's sick of collaborators. Maybe he's not happy with the way things are going, either.  Some fans would rather defend Brian than Joe Thomas or his management. Let Joe and Melinda see what they're writing on Facebook and maybe they will change what's on the album and make it more Brian-centric in the end.

BTW, I don't believe Brian wrote that paragraph on Facebook. I'm thinking Michael DeMartin or his wife. Either that, or they "gently urged" him to put a stop to the negative talk and guided him in what to say. It flies in the face of what he told the Irish Times, and that was an objective outsider who got the words directly from Brian.

I don't think it's Brian that wrote that. He wouldn't say "f*** with the formula". Even Mike has said he never said "f*** with the formula".

I thought that same thing. That small bit makes me suspicious.

Honestly, it does surprise me that anyone would have thought it a good idea to say that.

You seem to know a lot about this new album project and what's happening behind the scenes, can you fill us in on any more details about the music and the studio sessions? I'm curious. 

What makes it even more suspicious is that the "Brian" response exactly paraphrases what some of the fans were saying in the thread below that. There were a couple of people who mentioned the "f*** with the formula" thing.  That "Brian" response, which seems to be from someone in his management team, is a little more revealing about what's going on in Brian land than his people may have wanted. They probably should have re-thought that and just shut up and let the fans argue among themselves. There were more people saying nice things and defending Brian against the criticizers than there were people doing any criticizing. His management seems very controlling of the dialogue around Brian. I haven't been on the blueboard in a long time but I wonder if they censor discussions there. They might as well delete the negative comments instead of posting that weird response.

Why simply and rationally defend Brian's work when you can throw in yet another subtle stab at Mike and be totally transparent, too? Don't they realize this sort of stuff, over time, only serves to further harm Brian and the Beach Boys' image and legacy?

I'll grant you this is one of the more minor examples, but these guys are so obvious and transparent and, again, all these small little things add up in the long-term. Don't they care? Don't they realize any short-term gain from the stuff they do is negated by the long-term damage it does?

I didn't say anything about Brian trading lead vocals with a twenty something; I talked about trading vocals with Alan and Blondie , and that should not be considered a duet And my point is that the Beach Boys songs were not considered duets , because they weren't, same as some of these new songs.

Hey Ray, thanks so much for hangin' around here. Anyways, music-wise, from what you've heard, what Beach Boys or Brian Wilson albums would you compare it to? And how do Brian's vocals compare to his recent work? Anything as sweet as "Summer's Gone"?

None of this would be happening, either, if they simply would not keep making statements and posting photos in the studio of a work in progress. People can say all they want how folks shouldn't jump the gun until they hear the released record, but I don't recall any other artist having that many constant updates about what's going on in the studio, and it's human nature to try to figure out what the final product could wind up being with the given information. I'm sure when bands like Fleetwood Mac were taking years to make an album, no one knew what was going on or who was in and out of the studio, or which tracks were rejected and which ones made the cut. I suppose the Internet creates the demand of constant updates. Still, not a good thing when they're still up in the air as to what they want the final album to be.

You're welcome.  I would say that Brian's vocals sound like "Summers Gone" and "Pacific Coast Highway" , my opinion , a bit better but that's a subjective opinion.  As to what Beach Boys / BW record to compare it to ; that's tough as this is really different in many ways. I love the background harmony blend of Brian/Al/Blondie/Matt ; sounds brilliant to me. Hard to compare it though to any of its predecessors ; I have to think about that one.

Glad you're here Ray! I'm personally excited over the album.

Thanks, I am as well.  I think it's close to being finished

i'm not totally signed off that the album will be bad

but when the time comes that we hear snippets and samples...

and it turns out there is even one second of identifiable autotune...

(http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-smith.gif)

That is great Ray! Would it be ready in time for the release of the movie?

Gee I hope so !  I think it will be finished in the next several days

Of course Brian didn't write that, as we do here: he's always admitted he's not comfortable with computers. He said way back that Melinda shows him comments, he replies and she types in those responses. Old history. Are all the words actually his ?  Who knows, who wasn't there ? I'm guessing the overall tenor is his. Sounds like it.

.

Give me a "Deluxe Edition" with the "original versions" of the duet tracks and I'll be stoked. Michael Jackson's most recent album had this, with an original version of the track without Justin Timberlake. I know it's different since the released version was remixed and reworked by Timbaland. But it got me hoping that they could do a similar thing here. Sorry for the alarmist post the other day! If Brian is actually bummed about comments like mine, that sucks. But this is a place for hardcore obsessives, and if I can't whine and moan about Joe Thomas and my suspicions about his dubious influence here, then where can I???  ??? :)

I'm sensitive, too, Brian. I don't think your feelings are more important than your fan's rights to express their opinions. I dunno, maybe I'm burned out on Brian Wilson, or at least the whole scene around him and the list of rules that are supposed to be obeyed. He's turned into the Wizard of Oz in the minds of some of his fans.  I'd rather hear an album by Al Jardine or go to an Al Jardine show. He's neurotic, too, and he certainly doesn't have Brian's gifts,  but at least no one puts him on an unassailable pedestal where he can do no wrong and no one is allowed to criticize him. Talent and a gift doesn't give you the right to disrespect people's rights to have an opinion.

This sounds amazing.

Often a negative tone comes about due to a lack of information. If you sign on again Ray, can it be suggested to those that decide these things that a little bit of detail about release dates for both the album and the movie would not go amiss. Both were started last year and we still a none the wiser for either of them.
Thanks.

Much as I'm looking forward to the whole deal, this is the bit that has me salivating. Call me a fan, can't help it…

So do we want Phil's Wall of Silence or leaks? We oughta present a unified front

An album cover and a release date are all I'd need. :P

I'm sure it's Brian who wrote the message, just like I'm sure that it's Brian who keeps updating his status with regurgitated quotes from musicians about how great he is. If Brian's proven anything over the last fifty years, it's that he's boastful and full of himself. ::)

+1   8)

Poor Brian, having to read criticism by people who don't actually know whether he made (or agreed with) a particular decision or not.  No matter how sure of themselves they are.

I'm really sick of fandom's tendency to treat the objects of their fandom as a Rorshach test.

Regards,
Jon Blum

I actually went to the second show of that. Excellent performance from Paul and his pitch was fine at the show. One of only two times I've seen my mother cry over a man (the other being BW at the Highline Ballroom in 2011)! I have the live album but haven't listened in awhile...I seem to remember "Drive My Car" being the worst offender on the auto-tune front? Is that an accurate memory?  

Anyway, pitch modulation (whether natural or otherwise) can get really funky when you start involving delay processing. I'd really encourage people on this board to spend a bit of time on YouTube learning about ADT (especially how it purposely introduces pitch modulation) and VocAlign. VocAlign is really helpful for doubles and harmony stacks in the music world and is really heavily used when doing ADR in the film/tv world. While it does an incredible job, when overdone it can get things so locked in that they sound unnatural (like Al and Brian's harmonies on FTTBA).

As a Mets fan it's always been a whole heckuva lot of fun to criticize every decision their management team makes...Who needs to be privy to contract negotiations, clubhouse interactions, internal scouting reports or monthly finance reports when you can just tell the GM to sign a SS for $12mi/yr from the informed perch of one's living room couch?

oops

Do you know what's really sickening? Having fans tell other fans how they are supposed to think and feel. Who the hell are you?

Oh, shudder, fans are stating and opining what kind of music, album, and collaborators (or lack of) that they PREFER from their favorite artist. And on a rock & roll message board no less. How dare they do that! Fans have just as much right to express skepticism or displeasure at what they are reading as people who are posting optimistic feelings. And I'll repeat - what they are reading. Of course they haven't heard the music, but it's not the music they are criticizing. They are speculating and predicting on a message board about "things" that they don't care for.

Brian's Facebook message/response falls right in line with the rest of the decisions being made about this...er...project. He probably didn't think of it, he probably didn't compose the content, and he probably didn't physically type it. But they want us to believe he did. In my opinion, of course...

Did Brian post that or author it word for word? Probably not. My guess is that it was Melinda that wrote it, given the time of day that the post went up, probably reflecting Brian's reaction to some comments on the FB thread, as well as possibly those on this board. But your phrasing also seems to suggest that Brian has no input, creatively or otherwise, in this entire project. Am I misunderstanding? Or are you just referring to the public "updates" that we've been getting?

Hard to tell. If Brian's entourage is to be believed in that Brian is lucid, capable, and making all choices, then we must take his word in a recent interview about being fed up with collaborators. Yet, we've counted how many collaborators in this current project already?

There's also Beck's account: he sat in the studio with Brian, who didn't utter a word; and then he (Beck) was handed an arrangement alledgedly written by Brian- who would not speak with him.

Each one of Brian's solo albums has triggered the very same discussion topic: how much input does he have? How much of the decision-making bulk is his? There must be like 30 threads on that subject here.

Sometimes he seems so out of it that it's hard to imagine that he can manage to direct an album project. BUT, on the other hand, no one here runs to the record store to buy the latest Wondermints or Scotty Bennet album-- his collaborators are never as good or inspired on their own as when they work with Brian.

Don't care for duets, and would only do so if:
1- they inspired Brian as a songwriter
2- they inspired Brian as a producer
3- they boosted record sales

I don't believe any of that is happening.

As for the "Brian" post on his FB page... We know he didn't type it; doesn't sound like him; does not help. As for the ubiquotous "Love and mercy" signature, it has become as stiff, unnecessary and bothersome as the "Cheers, xxxxxx" we have to read here at the end of some posts.

Just a guy.  That's all I need to be, to have the right to say when I think people are talking bulls***.

Which is what this is.  Not one of us knows whether Brian looked over Melinda's shoulder at Facebook and she transcribed what he said, or what.  Not one of us knows whether he liked the idea of collaborating with Lana/Zooey/Kacey/whoever or not.  People here are inventing insights they don't have.


Read the posting I was responding to:  it had *nothing* to do with the music, and *everything* to do with making up a mental state and attributing it to Brian.

We can speak for ourselves; we do not have the right to speak for Brian.

Regards,
Jon Blum

It always surprises me that so many folks who dislike and dismiss Brian's solo work feel so passionately about these things. He's not going to go the Rick Rubin route. Heck, he's not even going to go the Andy Paley route. The auto tune and slurring are here to stay.

Brian has made the decisions he's made and put out the music he has. We can't change a single note of it. He's over 70, and bar some miraculous change, we likely won't get too many more albums from him. If this stuff bothers you so much -- if BW is indeed such a shell of his former self -- please don't bother with it. Leave the record to those of us who have generally enjoyed his solo work. Everyone will be happier.

It's interesting that many folk here question whether Brian makes his own posts on FB, yet don't put their own names to their posts here.

Would Brian's posts be more authentic if he used a pseudonym? Would that make them as acceptable as posts here?  :wink

:hat

I still think it’s funny that something like 15 years after Brian’s website first appeared and posts attributed to his name started appearing, we’re still debating whether he writes them. I think we can probably mostly agree (hopefully all agree) that Brian isn’t sitting and typing the stuff himself. Someone else almost surely does that. That’s probably not uncommon even among younger, more computer savvy music industry personalities.

The question has always been, do they just transcribe what Brian says verbally? This we’ll probably never know with 100% certainty. One’s “literary” voice, or “written” voice, is often different from their spoken voice. Brian doesn’t talk in person the way “his” posts and letters are written. If he’s not typing them himself, it’s pretty obvious that someone else is at the very least molding and editing Brian’s words. There actually is somewhere in between writing it all yourself and having someone else write it without having any input yourself.

A number of years back, I wrote website content and correspondence for a band; one without a record deal but fronted by a movie/TV star, so they had a pretty big following for a supposedly “indie” band. Long story short, these guys weren’t writing any of the stuff on their website (this was pre-facebook, so mainly it was website and message boards). Their manager/associates would dictate stuff to people including myself, we’d write it all out, and hopefully the band would at least approve it. Now, we weren’t writing actual posts or e-mails attributed to the band members. The stuff we were writing was not “signed” by or attributed to any particular person. It was just general stuff attributed to the band’s web team, message board moderator, etc. But the same thing could apply to an individual music star. Someone tells them what’s going on on their facebook page, the star relates the gist of what they’d like to respond with (or someone suggests to them that they should respond), and that commentary is then molded into a “post”, which we can only hope that person at least “signs off” on.

As far as negativity on the new album, I don’t think it’s a bad thing if Brian actually knows that maybe not every fan will swallow anything he releases without question. I wouldn’t feel bad for Brian about it; however valid or invalid any criticisms are (more invalid I would suppose since we haven’t heard the freaking material yet), Brian and his team have already marginalized any criticism in their minds clearly. Someone who isn’t hot on duets with contemporary stars has already been lumped in with the proverbial buzzkills that didn’t like “Pet Sounds” and “Smile” back in the day.

I’m fine with some duets. Just put an album out and let’s get everything moving. Maybe some of the tracks will suck. I’m still hoping some of the Jardine/Marks/Chaplin stuff makes the cut. If there is any sort of “duets” type of theme there, maybe a Beck track or two could still find its way on there too.

This infantile bickering doesn't become us.

(http://media.tumblr.com/fc7add541bc98a476183973c06ab43d3/tumblr_mvlwuoZ9cT1qakpx1o1_250.gif)

When Brian said that he doesn't need collaborators, he was talking about song-writing collaborators.  Here is what Brian said (if it was really Brian  ::) )

“I’ve had it with collaborators. I still work sometimes with Scott Bennett – he writes lyrics – but he’s the only one I work with. I don’t really know who would want to work with me at this stage. Young people? People my own age? I don’t know. I’d be very interested if someone approached me. I’m open to that.

“But I think the solution is that I should really try to write lyrics myself. I wrote a lot of lyrics for The Beach Boys. The other band members wrote, but their lyrics weren’t as good as Van Dyke or Tony. They were just not as good as writers.”

As far as I know, he has no collaborators on the new record.  Joe Thomas may be one, I don't know.  We'll have to wait to see the songwriting credits.  We know he has recorded with backing musicians, backing vocalists, guest musicians, and guest vocalists for the new album.  Brian's used all of these throughout his career.  We don't even know if there are duets (Ray, correct me if I'm wrong).  Perhaps the three female singers are going to sing lead on entire songs with Brian doing backgrounds.  We just don't know yet.

Also, there is a huge difference between writing songs that you want to get played on the radio, and writing songs for money.  We all know that Brian's motivation has always been trying to get songs played on the radio.  He never cared about the money.  Hell, he left very large checks uncashed for weeks.    

That Irish Times article shows a very talkative, up-beat Brian Wilson.  It gave me the impression that he has reflected on his career, and has decided to live the rest of his life in peace.  He doesn't want drama.  He doesn't need to be told what to do.  I believe that the sentiment in the Facebook post came from Brian, regardless of who put fingers to keyboard.  Yeah, I believe Brain does have an agenda these days.    

Billboard:

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6114184/brian-wilson-tells-doubters-to-back-off-it-kind-of-bums-me-out

LostArt - Great thoughts, great post! Besides putting perspective on the issues being debated, I'd also like to remind some of us here that there is a difference between a "collaborator" and a "guest artist".

In all fairness maybe some of the posters here don't follow other forms or genres of music as much as what they're into.

Let me just say that in the world of top-40, pop, dance, R&B, even some areas of country and bluegrass to go really niche, and blues...the "guest artist" is and has been more than common on these charts for well over a decade.

Here's the thing: It's not 1965, it's not 1972, heck it's not even 1992.

Take a look at any Billboard rap singles chart from the past decade or so. Note how many "guest artists" are on songs that charted. You'll see countless credits with the abbreviation "feat. so-and-so" next to the artist's name. Does this mean they "collaborated" as in writing and producing the song, or does it mean they sang a hook vocal or did a breakdown section?

Look what won a Grammy from 2013 "Get Lucky"...Daft Punk feat. Pharrell Williams. Pharrell sang the lead vocal...Daft Punk wrote and produced the song. Are people pissed that Daft Punk brought an outsider in to sing that song?

Maybe...they as producers thought he had the right voice and delivery for their song, not to mention the right kind of throwback 70's funk/dance vibe where he knew how to deliver the right performance for their grooves. Hmmm.

How about this single from last year, one of the bigger sellers in pop and dance from 2013:

Blurred Lines by Robin Thicke, feat. T.I. and Pharrell. So there are *TWO* featured guest artists, one of them Pharrell who co-produced with Thicke and a guest rapper.

Why mention this?

Just to say it's the nature of a lot of the music business in 2014, and has been for some time.

It's not 1965 where Capitol has to edit out "thank you, Dean" so they don't have to pay Dean Torrance for being on a single he wasn't supposed to be involved with by contract, or anything of the sort.

It's also a way to allow artists to work with *other artists*, or if there is a song that needs a female voice, to actually bring in a guest female vocalist while still having it be their own album.

It's kind of a liberating thing for artists or producers, right?

And as far as songwriting...again go to a lot of the bigger-selling top-40 hits of the past 10 years or so and notice how in some cases there are literally "teams" of songwriters upwards of a half-dozen or more names in some cases who are credited for writing a song. And, as happens often, in many cases these "collaborators" never worked in the same room or even on the same continent to create that hit.

So forgive me if I don't agree with some comments that base a perception of "collaboration" or "guest artists" or whatever else on idealized notions of what it was like 50 years ago in the music business.

Because it isn't. And that's how the game is played in 2014.

Ultimately it's about the song itself after it's been finished and we can hear it, right?

Bands do this all the time on Facebook/Twitter/Instagram to drum up interest/intrigue in an album. And much of the time there's no confirmed release date, too.

People are talking about the album, right? Billboard posted a blog about Brian's response, right? From a marketing standpoint, this is working. Now, the album just has to be good.

No, the album doesn't have to be good. It just has to have a fan base that will buy and uncritically praise no matter what this particular artist does, or has his people doing for him, whether it be Joe Thomas or whoever else he has doing a lot of heavy lifting for him.  Brian has turned into one of those kids in soccer who automatically gets a trophy for participating. It doesn't matter how he plays that day, if he only plays a few minutes, or if the team loses, he gets a shiny gold cup.

I suppose that's also true of a legend like Bob Dylan, who has enough good will and great work in the distant past that he can coast on his laurels, but I don't think his fan base gets angry if a fan or anyone else dares to criticize him, and Bob certainly seems to care less if someone criticizes him.  You won't catch Bob Dylan taking to Facebook posting a "poor, pitiful me" message if someone is skeptical about something he's doing.

Wilson's different, that's all. He's always been super-sensitive to external criticism and has canned stuff in the past just because some guy off the street was indifferent to it.  If Dylan canned everything that anyone was indifferent to, he'd've not released half the stuff he has.

You can't hold Wilson's super-sensitivity against him. It's probably the root of some of his greatest pieces of music.

It has to be good for non-Brian Wilson superfans to buy it, which is clearly what he and his camp are aiming for.

Nothing new about the album in that article

Just had a question...I have a copy of a magazine article from 1966 where it describes Brian Wilson working in the studio, and it describes some unusual scenes like horn players talking into their instruments, a group of guys doing "underwater" chants, the Beach Boys doing vocals on a song called "Heroes" at Columbia, Brian overdubbing upright piano and grand piano parts over each other...what's all that about, what was going on with that article reporting things that are happening in the studio, unknown songs like "Heroes" being recorded, all these things about an album or albums that no one knows yet what they will be?

Then I have another article, from earlier in 1967, showing some photos of the Beatles recording something...there are brass instruments in the studio, John Lennon seems to be trying to play a French Horn, there are all kinds of music stands and instruments set up with microphones...I don't see them with guitars...and they don't mention anything about what this new album will be. What the hell are the Beatles doing with brass instruments? Why would they publish these photos of them in the studio recording an album like this...we have no idea what they're doing! Have they gone "orchestral", are they becoming a brass band? Has Lennon ditched guitar to take up the horn?

Seriously, too much confusion. Bands shouldn't print articles like this with photos, their fans might get the wrong impression, especially before anything has been decided around how the album will be released. The Beatles playing horns? Brian overdubbing pianos? What kind of music is this?  :lol

Edited because I asked myself "Do I really care?" and the answer was "Nope."

It's an unfortunate aspect of the music business today although I will concede as you mentioned in the end it probably doesn't amount to all that much.  It's nitpicking (but hey we are diehard music fans and it's what we do) but I've always preferred my record labels to have the name of the primary artists period: The Beatles, The Beach Boys, The Who.  Maybe it's just because what I've been familiar with for years but personally feel that the "featured" credit somewhat dilutes the talents of the primary artist as if they need the secondary artist's name to be credited on their record in order to move product.  It's almost as if they are saying to the consumer: "Well you might not be a fan of this artist but they are collaborating with this other artist that you might like, so maybe you'll buy this record".

From a marketing standpoint: it's genius.  From an artistic standpoint: It's pathetic.  

In short when the primary artist is significantly more marketable than the secondary artist credited on the sleeve (The Beatles: Get Back featuring Billy Preston would be a good example of this) there is really not much of an issue as all the artist is doing is giving credit to someone who helped them out on their record.  The problem or issue occurs when the primary artist is less well known than the secondary artist or in the case of McCartney-Jackson in 1983 are marketing to entirely different fanbases.  The reason being is because it makes the artist who should be the primary look as if he needs the secondary artist credited on his sleeve to sell his product which equates to making him seem/stay relevant with consumers which is a message that in my opinion that any artist in the truest sense of the word should never send out to his public.  

As I mentioned it's an unfortunate aspect of the music industry today although matters to few because few actually take the time to think these things through like the diehards do.

I guess we know where VDP stands on this.

Van Dyke Parks ‏@thevandykeparks 5m
Release Brian! http://www.stereogum.com/1686119/new-brian-wilson-album-may-feature-lana-del-rey-frank-ocean-zooey-deschanel/news/ …

There might also be superfans of Frankie Pacific Ocean Blue, Lana Dear Rey, Kacey Musgraves, Jeff Beck, Al Jardine, Blondie Chaplin, David Marks, Don Was, Jim Keltner, Vinnie Colaiuta, Tal Winkenfeld, Burt Bacharach (really? Missed that one!), Lana Del Rey, Matt Jardine (which I guess is mostly us) and Zooey Des Chanel ready to boost sales – y'know, the gotta have everything superfans – , just as I'll be likely to buy their material that has Brian on backing vox, cos that's what (some) fans end up doing.  So there's a defo commercial angle both ways.

And I'm not complaining.  Just saving up.

John, I'm totally with ya on this:

"From a marketing standpoint: it's genius.  From an artistic standpoint: It's pathetic".  

But not this:

God Bless California
For It Marks My Faith To See
You're The Only State With The Sacred Honor
....to sink into the sea

I was a lot more excited at the prospect of Brian working with Jeff Beck than I am with him working with modern female pop vocalists. For all we know the results may be fantasitic but as a fan I'm entitled to say it's not what I'd want or expect from the guy if asked.

Wow, really? There's nothing mean about what I said. Brian is out in the public eye and putting himself out there, he needs to be able to take feedback, which is what those fans were giving him. They weren't even criticizing him, they were mildly critical of his choice (or his manager's choice) of duet partners. Life requires one to be able to take feedback and criticism. You have to deal with that fact no matter what job you have in life. We all get performance reviews.

You're really talking about regular, long-term healthy folk though. Brian has issues which make the scenario a tad different.

A bit like criticising a guy with the gout for not being able to run for the bus.  It's what you can't see that turns it into a different kettle of fish.

First, as I said it's the nature of the music business in 2014. Anyone can disagree on principle or integrity issues or whatever, but that's the way it is.

I have more of an "issue" with artists who I won't name marketing their songs by releasing them as background music for commercials selling products like the iPod, or in McCartney's case some product I don't even remember where his new song was the jingle.

But hey...that's how it's done. They reach more potential listeners using a so-called "work of art" as background jingle music in a commercial than they do by the old methods. I don't necessarily agree, but if the goal is more listeners and more buyers, that's what will be done to promote the song.

What i don't understand, or necessarily agree with, is the problem with crediting guest artists or collaborators. Again, it's not the 1960's so if, say, Eric Clapton were to have played a guitar solo on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" in a modern scenario, I'm sure he'd get a credit.

Isn't there also a truth in advertising notion at work? When that song was released in 1968, and Clapton's contribution wasn't mentioned at all, how many listeners assumed it was one of the Beatles playing that guitar part? At that time, that's just not how the band did things, but at the same time does that preclude any guest spots on a band's album getting credit for the contributions?

Some of this is anachronistic thinking assuming things should or will be done as they were in a different era, and again in a time when a new single is released to sell iPods for Apple as much as it is released for fans of that artist to buy, things have changed and so should assumptions about how music will be delivered to the fans and listeners.

Whether it's right or wrong in fans' opinions is separate from the way it actually is done to get the music out and to get people to listen and/or buy.

Well I think it goes without saying that many here see the entire business of these collaborations as being disrespectful to Brian Wilson's legacy just based on whom he is collaborating with and the disparity between the talents Wilson possessed in his prime and at his peak powers and what his collaborators are capable of doing in the prime of their careers (which for those who haven't noticed is right here, right now).  But the other side of that coin is that younger musicians who choose to collaborate with legendary figures such as Brian Wilson usually have nothing but respect for the person who they are collaborating with.  I remember watching that video of Brian Wilson and Zooey Deschanel at the Hollywood Bowl a few years ago, and my initial read on that video is that Zooey was having a legitimate "fangirl" moment sitting next to Brian Wilson at The Hollywood Bowl.

I also remember something I believe Springsteen said regarding the last record Clarence Clemmons ever made which happened to be an appearance on a Lady GaGa single.  I believe Springsteen mentioned that Clemmons would've have been pleased to have gone out on top, contributing to a modern hit record.  

Yeah but would he get a credit on the outer sleeve?  That I'm not too sure about.  I have no problem if the collaborators are given credit in the liner notes and in fact think the sixties practice of not giving collaborators credit at all is equally ridiculous to the crass commercialism that exists today in marketing records.  I'm just saying I would have issue if one of my favorite bands released a single today and had the "featured" tag stuck onto it. 

In the particular case of his apparent upcoming album, it might be a *tad* unfair to undertake a performance review of something we haven't heard yet. I think employers when conducting a review usually wait to review something until it has actually occurred.

I'm not super enthused about what this album may be shaping up to be. It doesn't help that Joe Thomas is the guy the helped bring us "Stars and Stripes." I'll probably be even more bummed if they elbowed tracks with the other BB's appearing in order to shoehorn in Frank Ocean.

I also think this idea that Brian fans blindly buy and love whatever he does is partially overstated, in two ways. First, Brian and BB fans are sometimes some of the most cranky, jaded, cynical bunch I've seen (sometimes with good reason considering what the band has put out there at certain times). Secondly, sycophantic fans are not unique to Brian. Every artist with a following has a faction of fans like this, that can't bring themselves to judge anything negatively. I've seen it for years from McCartney fans, and from many others. Then you get fans who reject negativity from other less sycophantic  fans (and some trolls, etc.), creating a super-uber-positive-defensive aura around their artist.

One can actually be positive but also realistic. I remember back when the Beatles were getting ready to release "Free As A Bird", some TV show got into some music industry event or awards show and started asking various "celebrities" what they thought, about a song that hadn't even come out yet. Chrissie Hynde offered rather dryly that it sounded like a good idea, but "let's hope it doesn't suck."

That's kind of where I'm at with Brian and the BB's. Let's hope it doesn't suck. They already f-ed up two years ago the best group thing they had going since the 70's. Now we can only hope whatever they scrape together individually or collectively doesn't suck.

Surprised to see tastemakers like Pitchfork and FACTMag run the story on their sites today as well. Not everyday/month/year that Brian graces their news feeds.

This thread has become truly bizarre.

Do all bands have fans like this?

I'm embarrassed to be considered a part of it.

The reactions to the Beatles doing "Free As A Bird" makes an important point, especially what Chrissie Hynde said about it. Before she heard the song, she said "I hope it doesn't suck."

With any upcoming album or release of any kind, don't we all share that thought?

There has to be a difference between saying that, and suggesting that it will suck, then posting such things not just on fan message boards but on the artist's own Facebook page...especially considering no one outside the actual making of this music has heard a second of the actual music.

Take Chrissie Hynde's example as a reasonable way to respond in these cases, and also take it as coming from a musician and songwriter who I'm sure would react as strong if not stronger than Brian if *her fans* started posting the kinds of statements we've seen in reaction to an announcement that Chrissie Hynde was going to be releasing new music.

At the most basic level, it's not even giving the artists like Chrissie or Brian a fair shot, and it's putting that negativity of seeing the glass as "half empty" before the drink has even been poured.

What is fair game and which I have no problem with is/was those musicians who publicly said they didn't like "Free As A Bird" after hearing it. There were the groups of diehard Beatle fans who had a problem with that, and my take is and was that's everyone's right to say they didn't like something as long as it's been released and actually listened to in order to form that opinion.

Is it too far beyond logic to see a difference between "I hope this doesn't suck" and "this is going to suck" when talking about a project which no one has heard?

Wow.

Unless there are Pink Floyd fan communities where any news of something Roger is doing is met with bitching about David and vice versa, or Stones boards where it's Keith versus Mick, or Boston fan boards where a mention of Tom Scholz gets Barry Goudreau fans bent out of shape, I'd say hopefully not.

There are people who think Frank Ocean and Lana Del Rey suck. They also had no prior connection to Brian, so no one owes them anything. If Brian and his people had chosen different, generationally compatible duet partners, people wouldn't object. Some people like Frank and Lana, and others don't. It doesn't matter that they haven't heard the duets with Brian yet. If you don't like an artist, you don't like it. What if Brian cut a track with Eminem? Or Kanye West? I think people are going to have an opinion in advance of hearing the tracks, even if they do wind up being not half bad.

You should have read comments on made about Mick Jagger dueting with Taylor Swift and Katy Perry on the last Stone's US tour on a couple of fan boards. It was not favorable, especially with Taylor Swift. And it wasn't entirely people dissing Taylor (though they did, people who like Stones music are not ever going to be into Taylor's music, whether it's actually bad or good), but the combination with Mick. And why he would choose to do duets with her in the first place. Something about grandpa singing with a woman young enough to be his granddaughter. It just looked ridiculous, the clash between their ages and musical styles. Stones fans were upset and weren't afraid to voice their opinion about it.  They thought it was an example of Mick Jagger being mercenary and trying to stay relevant and winding up looking silly. No one thought Keith could possibly be in favor of it, though of course, Keith didn't do anything to stop it, so he was just as "guilty."

I have long wished that Brian's albums could become more like Quincy Jones' records. Quincy is the only name on the cover, but the credits inside are as long as those at the end of a superhero movie. And Q doesn't sing, doesn't play anything on the record, doesn't write the songs...and yet, he is the artist, the creator of the album. Brian, it seems to me, has even greater right to do this, since he DOES write, play and sing on his albums, in addition to being the producer and arranger. Everyone wants to be on a Quincy Jones album and he will have very current young artists right next to old-timers...and it works. Why can't we afford Brian the same level of control and respect?

Maybe it's because I'm younger than many posters here (27), but I don't understand why anyone would write off this album because Frank Ocean, Lana Del Ray, Zooey Deschanel or Kacey Musgraves are singing on it. It's not Brian performing their music -- which would be artistically pathetic -- it's today's artists contributing to Brian's modern songs.

Hasn't it long been said that you can't make Brian do something he doesn't want to do? And that if he's forced to, he'll just shut down? Sure, Brian probably didn't know any of these artists before the sessions started, but if he didn't want these songs or singers to be part of his album, they wouldn't be.

That's quite a generalization, and frankly one that doesn't give listeners much credit. I certainly like some music from both the Stones and Taylor Swift. (I also dislike some from both.)

I think one thing people may be discounting is that Brian Wilson, who needs neither money nor respect at this point in his career, records music for fun. It's easy for fans to talk about artistic expression and commercial potential, and I'm sure those are real factors. But when Brian goes into the studio, maybe, just maybe, it's because he feels like it. He's been doing it his whole life, and it's fun to make records! And so maybe Brian wants to shake things up by bringing in some other voices, and so he asks his management to find some young people he can sing with - no one too scary or intimidating, not Paul McCartney (and it's not like those super-star collaborations ever go well anyways), just some new voices. You know?

Maybe they're his new Marilyn.

If this is the fun island (or whatever it was called) concept then I'm really happy.  Sounds like the Zooey track is from that idea at the very least.

Be nice to have a concept like TLOS.

Also important to note that Kasey Musgrave, Lana Del Rey and Frank Ocean are all artists on labels owned by the Universal Music Group. As is one Brian Wilson.

Already raised here:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,17691.msg455079.html#msg455079

Wasn't that another thread...?

^ This

As you noted the ridiculous quotient in that particular pairing was off the charts.  Your comment actually brings up something that I've wanted to touch on for the longest time and that is the discrepancy in how modern music acts are viewed by the musicians of the nineteen sixties versus the generation of music fans who experienced the music of the nineteen sixties as fans and later found their own success in the music industry in the mid-late seventies.  One thing I've always been taken aback by (and am quite frankly proud of) is how passionately the artists of the "Springsteen era" of rock music defend the legacy of rock and roll music.  You can hear the level of respect and admiration that these musicians have in their voices whenever these artists talk about musicians like Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, Little Richard, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Beach Boys and the rest.  Quite contrastingly you can hear the level of disdain they have for the crop of modern musicians that have come up in the past few decades often voicing opinions that are shared by many classic rock fans that these modern acts on their best day are singers but don't even come close to being musicians.

However, it's interesting that artists like Brian Wilson, James Taylor or The Rolling Stones seem to be more embracing of these modern acts than the generation of musicians that followed them. Maybe because the artists of the nineteen sixties feel at this point in their career they have nothing left to prove and are virtually bulletproof in terms of their legacies although you can obviously argue that same points for a lot of the artists of Springsteen's era as well.  It just seems to be that the artists that came up in the industry in the mid-late seventies seem to be far more conscientious and protective of their music and legacies than the era that preceded them on many levels.  For example tell me the last time you heard a Springsteen, Mellencamp or Petty song in a television commercial or being used to promote a conservative politician without having it immediately pulled?  

I can tell you right now beyond a shadow of a doubt and to the point where I would bet money on this: You will never see Taylor Swift do a guest spot on one of Springsteen's albums or a guest appearance at one of his concerts.  

PS: Just bringing this back round to Brian Wilson.  I remember reading an interview with him less than a year ago where he was asked what artist in his mind defined modern music (or music as it exists in 2012/2013) and his response was: Paul McCartney.  I believe he also proffered Macca's name when asked a similar question at The Grammy Awards about what modern artists he listened to although I could be misremembering that particular response from Brian.

I'd argue there is nothing admirable about defending the legacy of rock and roll music. It may be the least rock and roll thing one can do.


Yet whatever respect and admiration they have for them, it apparently stops when that generation of musicians began doing anything beyond what they fell in love with and canonized (in this case, working with younger musicians, as you note in your next paragraph as happening). In other words, they're worshiping the corpses of people who haven't even died yet.

As for the views of classic rock fans about modern music, they are mostly irrelevant. Not as good as in my day, aren't even musicians, blah blah blah. It's an age-old complaint. Tastes usually are formed in a person's teens and twenties, as their life experiences rush through corresponding exciting moments, and ossify shortly thereafter. Then people disdain the newer music ... which is fine, because it isn't made for them.

What's funny is that anyone cares at all (about what anyone else makes or likes). Wait, is it funny or just sad?

As I recall, most of the odd range of artists that Mick Jagger dueted with on his last tour were all connected to the same concert promoter as the Rolling Stones. So, maybe there is some kind of business demand for synergistic cross promotion between acts that are on the same label or promoter group.

Maybe?

I'd rather not go around the Mulberry bush again on this one because there really is no definitive answer in this debate.  You can easily make the argument that many people of each generation despises the music of the ensuing generations (for example it's probably not too much of a stretch to say that most baby-boomers dislike rap) and that is a common trend that has been ever thus.  But you can also argue that what qualifies as popular music today is so banal and devoid of any value that it's not at all surprising that it rates so low with music fans who either came up in or prefer music of a previous generation.

I still think there is something admirable about defending what you love and believe in and what had a major impact on your life.  I think that is part of the essence of who we are as human beings to take the experiences that are close to, make them a part of your life and defend them at all costs.  Patti Sciafa mentioned on the "Born To Run" DVD that there is this inherent dream of rock and roll music in that it has the power to move you and deliver you which is obviously something that it has done for a great many people.  I don't hold anyone at fault for wanting to defend that and in defending that passion or what you are passionate about is essentially what the rock and roll music or the love of rock and roll music has taught me and I suspect many others.

But seriously, classic rock fans are the worst.

Perhaps I could have worded my response to that particular part differently. Maybe what I should have just noted how very un-rock and roll it is to defend the legacy of something created to be rebellious, young, aggressive, sexual, etc. To grow old with and defend the institution is the antithesis of rock and roll, so it's ironic, is all.

As for what is admirable, I'll rescind my statement, not that I totally disagree with it, but that I'd rather more carefully consider it.

And yes, this isn't a topic to be rehashed, especially in this thread and forum. That's what General Music Discussions are for. Sorry, all. (Not really sorry, though.)

Yep. And this one too.

It's not Pleasure Island. Thankfully.

I want pleasure island! :-D

Thankfully?

You just killed my hopes

I think a lot of people are over that now.

One day Brian Wilson will sneak into the recording studio with his moog synth and belt out an album of beautiful Pleasure Island tunes.

I think it was mainly going to be covers, a couple of leftovers from the Scott Bennett sessions, and a "Pleasure Island Theme."

Nobody's questioning your RIGHT to say whatever you want; I'm questioning the content of what you're saying. Just in your above post, you are referring to what people are saying as "bulls***". That is condescending and pompous, as if what you write has merit, but if others don't agree with it, it's bulls***.

You're mentioning things like "none of us knows whether he liked the idea of collaborating with Lana/Kacey/whoever or not." Of course we don't know. Who said that they did know? People are offering WHAT THEY THINK, not what they know. It's offering opinions, it's speculating, it's trying to get inside the mind of the artist. It's called being a fan. And, it's called a rock & roll message board. But, you, Jonathan, don't seem to get that. You disrespect posters with smug, condescending responses - primarily because posters' views don't agree with yours.

You also wrote, "We can speak for ourselves; we do not have the right to speak for Brian." Again, that's exactly what people are doing, speaking for themselves. I am speaking for me. I ain't speaking for you. And, I don't see anybody speaking for Brian Wilson. Trying to figure him out? Yes. Speaking for him? No. And the reason we have to try to figure him out is because he gives you basically nothing in the way of HIS thoughts and feelings. He or hiswifeandmanagers give us what THEY want us to know. It's rarely what we want to know. And, I think THEY want it that way. I don't think they really want us to know too much. See, there I go again...speculating. Or as you call it...bulls***

I really wanna hear Brian working with Lana Del Rey. I think she has an amazing voice, a really cool attitude and she's just...perfect in every sense :)

Imagine her singing 'Honkin' down the highway', you know? That kind of obscure post-surf pop melodies are perfect for her voice. And if she has a saying in the words, we might actually get something very interesting there.

Dont care about Zooey, she's cute and a big fan of Brian, but naah, her music sucks. Dont know the other people.

Well that's fairly disappointing.

I thought it was supposed to be Love You Part II. My life will never feel complete now :(

It's both, ToneBender631. It's both Brian's input and the public updates. In regard to Brian's input into his own career, everybody has an opinion or a gut feeling or an educated (or uneducated) guess as to how much Brian is actually involved. And, like EVERY issue, there are varying takes and degrees on the issue. Everybody has an opinion! And, guess what, they aren't going to all agree. Some people think that Brian is on top of things and is very involved in decisions. Conversely, others think that Brian is being led, talked into things - and, starting at the very beginning - having ideas as to what to do suggested by associates other than Brian. Which is basically saying that the ideas as to what to do are not even Brian's. It doesn't matter where I fall on the scale, but it does bother me when people can't at least let fans have an opinion based on whatever means they are using to form such opinion. Which leads into the public updates that many times form opinions.

I have learned from being a Brian Wilson fan for forty years that his "team" or advisors are going to let us know what THEY want us to know. And, I have found that it isn't always true. I don't have to expand on the reasons why the public releases aren't true. Let's just say that Brian's team is very, very protective of his image. So, after years and years of being fed untruths, you become jaded and cynical and questioning. And, again, some people don't like when you question things. They consider it disrespectful of Brian. Like Brian Wilson cares what a fan from Palookaville things about his dueting with Joey Deschanel or Billy Ocean...

I truly love you, SJS.

I want to see a cd cover with Brian sitting on a throne wearing bling. a hat with a feather in it, a red robe and sunglasses with two hot half naked babes standing on both sides of the throne.. ;D

Speaking of album covers, is the cover for GIOMH the worst of all time?

It is pretty ugly, but it's done by the Sgt. Pepper cover designer, so they thought it was an honor. They would have been better off with Mark London as designer.

If all three duets that Brian recorded are released, and he tours and uses any of the songs in his sets, how will they be done? If they're love duets, he'd have to have a female singer. I suppose he could bring Taylor back. Or he could have one or two of those women touring with him, and be their opening act or vice verse. She and Him, Zooey's band, toured with Emmylou Harris last year, which would seem like an odd pairing, but the shows sold well and brought in both groups of fans. It could be a kinder, gentler alternative to touring with someone as hard-hearted as Jeff Beck.

That's pretty symbolic of GIOMH's failure: using someone famous and well-respected with the assumption that it will automatically make your product better.

Good question as there is a marketable difference between a collaboration and a duet.  For example Paul McCartney has never performed "You Want Her Too" in concert because it's a song that needs to be performed with a collaborator for it to make any sense.  Brian Wilson however has performed "How Could We Still Be Dancing" as a solo performance a song that he traded off with Elton John on GIOMH.

It would depend partly on how the songs actually are constructed: are they true duets, or just songs where lines are traded? And either way, is a female essential, or could a male singing in the same register (let's be honest, several members of the BW band could handle the vocal ranges of these women) handle the chore?

But a joint tour with, for example, She & Him seems feasible. The latter crowd would almost certainly enjoy BW, and a certain segment of BW fans woudln't hate showing up early to catch S&H as an opening act. (It would absolutely be a thrill for M. Ward and Zooey to have the experience.)

Just remembered re M. Ward ... after all, Brian is down a guitarist with Jeff out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhEuD6hG3vk

Yep , sadly rather like the music contents   ::)

I really want a release date for this thing

Wow. What a thread. 17 pages of talking about next to nothing. I must join in!

I don't know what page features the link to Zooey D. singing Wouldn't It Be Nice. But gosh, she does
a nice job. Not an easy melody to pull of for a vocalist.  And it is live.  I think.  Even if she is basically
an amateur...a nice job.

So I'm rooting for her and the old guy.  Who knows.  To me the problem is putting out an "album"
(12 bloody songs)--an ancient pose given to us by Bob Dylan and the Beatles.  Why not put out
one song?  A great song.  Even this old fart (yours truly) purchases songs one-at-a-time these days.  

 

And this 24 year old buys albums and still loves the artform that is an LP.

Which makes you...an anecdote.  Nothing wrong with that.

I'm just gunna harbour a dream of what could be (!) until we get more details/hear tracks/reality

"It's called Pleasure Island: A Rock Fantasy. It's about some guys who took a hike, and they found a place called Pleasure Island. And they met all kinds of chicks, and they went on rides and — it's just a concept. I haven't developed it yet. I think people are going to love it — it could be the best thing I've ever done."

(http://cdn.baeblemusic.com/images/bblog/6-11-2014/wilson-main-846.jpg)

Imagine Brian, Al, Blondie and friends duetting with 'the chicks', taking in all the fun rides, ft Hal Blaine as Pleasure Island tour guide/barker :D

It could be the best thing in a long time!

And the back cover can be Mike, Bruce, and Stamos stuck in Kokomo looking over at the others wishing they could have joined them.

Reading this over again, I feel compelled to comment on one last thing because I wonder if it's a common experience others share: For me the reason why I find myself defending rock and roll has to do with the reason I embraced it in the first place which had very little to do with rebellion.  Personally I look at the embrace of rock and roll music as a means of rebellion as being as antiquated as Elvis Presley appearing on the Ed Sullivan Show and Sullivan refusing to allow him to be filmed below the waist.  To me that is something that is back there in the fifties with phrases like "juvenile delinquency" or whatever tag you want to stick on it.  I understand that the rebellious nature of rock and roll music is still a draw to some but as the decades have rolled on, those people who view rock and roll music in that regard have from at least my standpoint become the minority.

For me, my first experiences with rock and roll music was one of a positive nature.  Much like John Lennon, I felt that rock and roll music was the first thing to really get through to me during the years when I was searching for some form of identity outside of what had been given to me by my parents during my formative years.  But it wasn't a form of rebellion against what I had already known as it was actually my mother who turned me on to The Beatles and The Beach Boys in the first place as they were her favorite bands.  But regardless that music was really the first medium that ever had anything positive to say to me.  It was a new experience but at the same time felt like I was being embraced by an old friend that I had somehow lost along the way and was now rediscovering.  I don't know if I'm explaining it right but as John Denver once put it, it was like "coming home to a place I'd never been before".  So from that standpoint my initial experience with this music was a positive one, not one borne out of anger or malice towards someone else or a group of people.  So my feeling is that since this music entered my life all those years ago and from my first experiences with it felt so familiar and comforting, what would that say about me if I didn't defend it at those moments where I felt it needed defending?  

My guess is that experiences such as the one I just related to you all are far more common (or at the very least becoming far more common) than the experiences of people who embrace rock and roll as a vehicle to let out their aggressions on a particular subject or group of subjects.  I really think that in the main those experiences went out decades ago and the only people who revel in them are those who try to recreate or reappropriate those experiences in order to feed their own desires.  

It looks like it was done by the Sgt. Pepper designer's teenage daughter, who didn't get around to finishing her high school journal collage. It is awful.

Interesting. I don't think it's accurate to say those experiences "went out," because it has been repeated again and again in every era of rock and roll, though evolving out of what was once considered rock and roll. But I certainly wouldn't dispute anyone's individual experiences.

Didn't the sgt pepper artists also do the TLOS cover too. That was also pretty poor

kind of gives me an idea for another thread...we've all ranked the albums, songs, ect...but not the album covers. Could be interesting. Or not, I dunno.

Merged Howie's Billboard post with here as well. Going to try to keep all discussion related to this in one place. I'm certainly going to be adding my two cents in soon. Hopefully my shift keys will stay functioning...this laptop is about had it!

actually I like the cover! and I like the concert poster for the album (which is the cover)..... I have it signed and hanging in my house...

its no sgt. pepper....... but to me, nor is 'pepper' to the 'pet sounds' cover....

the 'pet sounds' cover is 'da bestest'..

to me the worst would be the BW 2004 'Smile' album cover ...... very bland indeed..

RickB

".....to me the worst would be the BW 2004 'Smile' album cover ...... very bland indeed.."




True, but aren't we glad the real deal was held over for the BB release a few years later?

I actually really 'love' Brian and the guys 2004 version of 'Smile'........ incredible actually... I got so drunk and 'off' on that at the time...

BUT........ the cover was a down play just the same.......

(it should have had a 'GIOMH' cover kind of appeal)......... much like the original 'Smile' artwork.......

each to their own I guess..

RickB

And now i'm going to thrown in a whole dollar. Forget the two cents.

First of all...I get quite angry when I read posts about how so and so has no talent, and their music sucks, ect. It's one thing to say that you don't like something. Music is subjective, and not everybody is going to like the same stuff. But despite what some may feel, you cannot have a sustained career without possessing some modicum of talent. As a songwriter myself, I cannot claim someone has no talent just because I don't like their sound. That's just...wrong. For someone to work on something, to put their all in it, and then get told that they're hacks, or that what they did has no redeeming value? Well, it had value to the person who made it. Obviously I'm not referring to novelty hits that were intentionally bad for comedic value.

Second...people are acting like Brian's working with Lady Gaga or something. (That would be a massive clash of styles on a personal AND musical level!) I know the common belief seems to be new=bad. Modern=trash. I think there was a certain bald headed musician who has been criticized over the years for allegedly feeling that way in 1966. What was his name? I'd Love to remember.... In any case, actually try reading up on these folks first. I run a bit hot and cold with Lana Del Rey, but when she's 'on' she does have an interesting vocal style and is certainly not a cookie-cutter pop princess. (Personally, I think Marina Diamandis would be a better fit, but what the hell do I know!) Kacey Musgraves I'm not too familiar with, but she's also an accomplished writer for others in addition to her own work. I personally love She & Him (M.Ward is not only a talented musician, but was a pretty cool dude the times we talked...almost led to a collaboration had fate not intervened, but that's a story for a different time...), so I'm happy as hell to see Zooey on board as well.  'In the Sun' is one of my favorite songs of the past 5 years.
And if Brian does work with Frank Ocean?  He's definitely one of the better hip hop artists around, and is highly underrated.

The kicker is, Brian's put out very safe music in his solo career. I've liked most of it, but he's taken very few chances. Until now. I said this earlier, and it got ignored, so I'll say it again...this is nothing like GIOMH. Did Brian do any real promotion for that, aside from that infamous interview where he was apparently in a bad state? Of course not...even though it is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me, and works on the level of 'official bootleg', GIOMH was the classic 'zombie Brian' who couldn't give two shits. That's not the case here. Hell, don't believe me. I'd personally take huge stock in what Ray has said in this thread. He'd know. I swear, I think if 1966 Brian was here there'd still be pissing and moaning.

Was thinking the same last night.

"You're writing a song about dogs barking because of vibrations? WTF!"

Lost in all this is the fact Brian is writing lyrics again...

Brian wrote lyrics on TWGMTR. "The Private Life of Bill and Sue." Lyric writing is not his strong suit,  but if that's how he wants to express himself, so be it. His child-like zaniness worked well enough on "Love You."

The fact these artists were shoe-horned in at apparently a latter stage of the album making process, after months of work, make people wonder a bit about what it will turn out to be. Along with Brian's statement on Facebook last night. If that even was Brian. That was ill-advised no matter who was responsible for it, IMO, and he should have let the fans sort it out for themselves, because he had more pro than anti people posting. He got coverage for that post today, but there is an unflattering tone to the stories on Billboard and Facebook, mainly centered around what people have observed here on this board and the blueboard, as well (I was surprised in checking out the blueboard that there are some less than laudatory posts on it), that the album has changed directions after a different emphasis in earlier publicity releases.

When Brian started out working on this album, it seemed like a chance to get his creative vision for the Beach Boys out there, minus Mike Love. Al, David, and Blondie were on board. That generated a lot of fan excitement. The Jeff Beck thing was something I think people weren't quite as excited about. But the chance to have a new Beach Boys type project, in the wake of the C50 PR fiasco? It looked like a chance to turn lemons into lemonade. I think if that Beach Boy presence is preserved on the album, and people get some good songs with Al and Blondie contributing vocals, then no one will care that much about the duets with the newer artists. If they're good or fantastic duets, that will be a bonus.

I know about TWGMTR...he wrote lyrics on Spring Vacation, Bill and Sue, and Strange World. He wrote lyrics for Good Kind of Love off TLOS, as well as Oxygen to the Brain, along with Message Man  and Just Like Me and You. Point is, this is something he's rarely done unless he's fully engaged, so this a real good sign

All I know is that if Joe Thomas is producing and the songs are Landy/Paley outtakes than its going to blow. The new vocalists could be cool if it works well in the contexts of the individual songs, and don't feel like unnecessary decoration to bolster sales among a younger demographic.

I'm skeptical about Kacey and Frank, though. Country and hip hop singing might not be a comfortable fit with his music.

This is a weird, weird project and we'll see if it turns out to be a debacle. I tend to think it will.

The Musgraves song probably will sound like a Lay Down Burden type trip.

As for Zooey..go listen to She and Him's song 'In the Sun' and get back to me. Video is meh...just listen to th err song on some decent headphones.

I agree that M. Ward is a talented guy. I'm not really crazy about his voice, but he's a very good musician and songwriter. I wouldn't mind seeing Brian collaborate with him, with or without Zooey.

I knew him through Dick Johnston (Daniel's brother) and he at the time fancied himself more as a guitarist/songwriter who also sang. I doubt thats changed in the past 7 years.  He would work well with Brian. He's a fan too

...And there we have another of the classic Big Lies:  dismissing people who aren't prejudging the album as a disaster as "uncritically praising".  When you're pretty clearly "uncritically bashing" it -- given that you haven't heard a single note of the music to critique it.

Regards,
Jon Blum

The BWPS cover looked like actual clip art. Really a missed opportunity. Almost as bland as the Imagination cover art.

Actually, the Imagination cover made me laugh. A friend of mind showed it to me, and I said on instinct: hey, is that the son of Brian Wilson? He had to laugh out loud, immediately grasping what I meant.

Good idea, but my answers are fixed for years now: Wild Honey and All Summer Long. You may write that down sir.

I like Brian's photoshop facelift on the back cover.

The only bad BW album cover, in my opinion, is Lucky Old Sun. It looks borderline unfinished. The rest are bland at worst, I think.
And Reimagines Gershwin looks awesome!

Also we kinda-ish already did album covers rankings:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14939.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14939.0.html)

That Lucky Old Sun cover is gorgeous... !??!?

People seem to be using Lady Gaga as a yardstick of what's rubbish about modern pop music, but actually she's one of the few very talented people in the charts over the last few years. She's a musician, a songwriter, delightfully weird, and has a great head on her shoulders for someone who got so famous so young. I'd love to hear a true BW/Gaga collaboration. It could make Love You seem like a Joe Thomas production. Imagine if Brian took Beyonce's part in this track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVBsypHzF3U

If Frank Ocean has any say in his role on the album that could be great too.

I'm not a huge fan of Lana Del Ray, her music seems like a studio creation of the bland king of indie Dave Sitek, but i'll reserve judgement until i hear the track. Maybe Brian'll make good use of her.


On a separate note, I'm glad Brian's camp have spoken out about the excessive negativity surrounding the new album, but i'm disappointing they invoked BW's right to "foda with the formula". A, this phrase is a loaded one in terms of BB fandom, and suggests that what we're about to receive will be a gamechanger on a par with Smile (instead of perhaps the album that GIOMH should have been). And B, getting a bevy of young popular female popstars isn't really fodaing with the formula, it's rigidly adhering to a formula of aging sales-declining new-target-demographic-outreaching 60s and 70s popstars. If Brian's camp had claimed their right to stick to the formula, based on the fact that Brian has given us all the great music over the years, that'd be closer to the truth :)


On yet another note, has anyone been so poorly served by artwork as Brian in his solo career? GIOMH, WIRWFC, TLOS, Disney, Pet Sounds live... all of which suck mightily. The Gershwin one is good, though, and I have a soft spot for Imagination.

The current debate makes me think of starting a Lady Gaga vs. Zooey Deschanel vs. Conchita Wurst poll.

I think the release date announcements and all the marketing are controlled and will be done by Capitol ; I don't believe that BriMel can preempt the record company on any of this.  I assume it would be the same with the movie, which I believe is finished.

"Excessive negativity" ?  Maybe thirty posters on a handful of fora ?  At first I was mildly amused but having slept on it, something of an over-reaction on the part of Brian's management.

Any publicity is good publicity tho'…!

Exactly. I think that it's pretty correct to assume that this all is part of marketing. It's meaning is to start people speculating. And it worked.

I first saw the Facebook user comments when they numbered around 175. It was posted in this thread that a majority of them were negative, but after reading them that was shown not to be the case. As Andrew said, it wasn't that many and the excitement/positive posts outweighed the negatives by far.

This was also just as the statement from Brian was posted.

I think it may just have been something of a precedent, to be honest. Maybe that's why the "story" got picked up by several other outlets. We don't see an artist's Facebook page or web site or whatever else confront something like this too often.

I also think the absurdity of what some of the negative comments were being based on may have been a factor in why a response was even posted in the first place. That's ground I've covered too much already in this thread, but I stand by it. If you're going to go negative on something, at least base your opinion on something resembling the truth. It's actually a win-win situation, because if/when the truth does come out those folks won't look like fools.

Andrew above mentioned the number of negative leaning comments at around 30 in that Facebook comment thread.

Consider this: Was it better to address it head-on, forcefully, and directly when the number was only 30 rather than have it spin out of control, potentially getting *really* ugly and deflecting attention away from the actual topic of announcing details of a new album?

I think it was. It was kind of refreshing in a web culture where a "hands off" or ignore type of approach leads to dozens of additional flamethrowers coming on board to get in a few digs while the topic is raging, which leads to more bad feelings, flame wars between posters and visitors, and ultimately a situation where opinions far removed from the truth end up getting spun into the truth, and it happens as the subjects of the flame wars sit back and take the hands-off approach not wanting to get involved.

So in this case, water was thrown on the flames before it got out of control. That was refreshing, and it did at least slow down some of the stuff going on.

And you have to assume it was effective...even here, the old tactic showed up from the political world.

The message was posted...it called out the negativity directly and succinctly, not to mention with a bit of frustration and disappointment too having to read this on a fan community, and immediately the origin of the message itself became the topic the negativity was transferred to. Brian didn't write this, Brian wouldn't have said this, Brian didn't know about this, who wrote it, who said it, etc...

Totally missing the point, but deflecting the message itself by calling into question the origins of the words as much as the words themselves is the moment where it's grasping at straws to find something to bash after being challenged.

I'm amazed that so much negative energy is spent trying to go negative on Brian Wilson, of all people, on projects that haven't been heard nor seen by anyone bashing them. At least listen or watch first, right?

From Brian's Facebook:

Maybe Brian is feeling a little betrayed right now, or his management is. They had to deal with Jeff Beck's negative comments recently. They had to deal with his daughter Carnie, while kindly defending her father against Beck, saying that he's scaling back on his career right now, even though he's spent over a year working on a new album, while also touring with Beck during part of it and planning some new tour dates. He had to deal with Jeff Foskett not only leaving his band, but going to join Mike Love's Beach Boys. Brian may claim he's glad for Jeff, but at some level, it might feel like a personal rejection (and some people keep saying Brian is hyper-sensitive to rejection and criticism). Al is playing one date with Mike and that was publicized in Rolling Stone magazine. Not only that, but Al is, or at least was, planning to try some writing and recording with Mike. I wonder if that's what Brian was referring to in the Irish Times when he spoke about not thinking too highly of the lyrics in songs he wrote with other Beach Boys.  He wrote songs with Al as well as Mike, and I suspect Al wrote many of the lyrics of their few collaborations.  Al extending an olive branch to Mike in such a public way may be prompting Brian and his management to downplay his contributions on the new album in favor of publicizing these duets. The material may have turned out the same way no matter what (Al and the female singers will both be on the album), but they are changing the emphasis of what they want to highlight on the album, and instead of being a total positive, it didn't go over that well with the entire group of diehards who post on the Blueboard and on Facebook. They should take it as a compliment that Brian's hardcore fans want to hear all Brian, all the time, instead of shoehorning other singers in. Not to mention the fact that being able to take criticism is part of the game, whether the material has been heard or not.  It's called gossip, which is also part of being in show business.

I agree, this was the original premise and now this project seems to be meandering and morphing into something else. I really dont know what to make of it at this juncture.

So just watching &  waiting.

Maybe I haven't paid attention enough, but what exactly are you referring to?

I wouldn't worry about Musgraves fitting in. Pop in country garb; she'll fit fine. I am clueless about how Ocean will fit, but he's a good singer and I'm sure can can fit. (Not saying I'm sure it will work, but that I'm sure it could work.) it's not like he's writing and producing Brian.

Jeff Beck's still gonna be on it. Ain't he?  ???
We've been promised a lot of things - rock and roll, a collection of instrumentals including "Metropolis", a 'life suite', and most recently these duets. I'm still a bit confused about whether or not these are all gonna be on the upcoming album or split into 3, although it certainly doesn't look like the latter at this point (as well as the fact that they've evidently been recording all three anyway), so no wonder it's taken so long. I like to hope this is gonna be something long crammed with everything; it'd only be fitting for what an album with "Last Song" implies. I don't think it's right to jump to the conclusion that these duets were last-minute decisions (if they even are 'duets', per se; the guests may just be there to add a few brief backing vocals); Brian and co. may have always had female vocal parts planned.
But again, no way to know until we've heard it. I wish some people were more open to all this... as ghostwritten as that Facebook message might look, they do have a point that we aren't letting them do their thing. And we aren't complaining about publicity grabs with these big names or anything, we're complaining about their voices simply being on the album that isn't even complete yet. Why are we so grouchy? People protested at the mere sight of Brian holding a bass a while back.

Ray, what's your favorite song that you've heard so far from Brian's new album?

We don't know for sure if that was Brian writing that... because we'd have to believe that either A. he reads all the negativity (highly doubtful) or B. somebody reads him all the negativity (why would they?).  So I throw the bullshit flag on that one.

Also, something similar which may or may not have been Brian was posted years ago on his forum, by 'him', because people were complaining about "Silent Night", which he had released for free to his fans.  The tone and everything was the same, he said he considered it a christmas card and if you don't like it throw the card in the trash.

So I would imagine it's either him, or someone who's been with him for a long time who wrote BOTH condemnations :)

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Here's what it comes down to.  Yes, Brian, you've earned the respect of all of us, especially your fans, but you've also made some GREAT music over the last 25 years, and some HORRIBLE music over the last 25 years.

We love and respect you, and want to hear YOU be YOU, because that typically lines up with what we consider the GREAT music you've done over the last 25 years.

When we hear you're recording songs with people and you don't even know their name, and they're the latest industry darlings... talented as they may be, they have about a fifth of your talent.  So it seems to us, with the LIMITED INFO we have, that the songs may end up being pretty crappy; it's happened before. 

I HOPE WE'RE WRONG! 

God Bless Brian whether he makes the great music he's capable of or the half-interested, disheartening music he phones in sometimes.

I would say "Sail Away" with Blondie ; tied with two others I don't know the titles of with Al and Blondie and "On the Island" with Zooey Deschanel on lead .

Eh I don't know about that talent and the evaluation of talent is subjective.  If you want to be completely politically correct about it you could say "So and So doesn't have much talent" as oppose to "So and So doesn't have any talent" but to me the difference between the two statements is so small that I couldn't fault anyone from making either/or.  It's all subjective anyhow and as Ron pointed out in many cases in evaluating talent, people tend to compare one person's talents comparatively speaking to another person's.  Through that process many of those same people then use the comparative process to judge the markup as to who is talented and who isn't.  The problem with your analysis of all art having any type of legitimate value simply due to the fact that it had personal meaning to the artist himself is that there are artists out there who urinate on canvas and call it art or an expression of their art.  That doesn't necessarily mean it has any true value.  Since we are speaking within the realm of subjectivity I've heard quite a bit out of the modern music scene over the past twenty years that I would put on the level of someone relieving themselves on a piece of canvas.

 ???

So not a duet then?

Have? I don't think we've been promised anything, just told what Brian has been working on.

I love that it seems that Blondie will be on more than one song. That in itself will be good enough for me.

Also a song (or two) with Al and Blondie and Brian all together? Ah! Even if the other stuff sucks, I'm sure this stuff will be cool. Let's just hope all the stuff with the fellow Beach Boys doesn't get elbowed out for a duet with Wiz Khalifa.

I don't think Big Star is as good as The Who.

 :-D

Still, for better or worse, the Imagination cover art gives a good impression of the album's overall sound...

With regard to the negativity aspect , Brian was unhappy with some negative feedback from his own Facebook fans ; talking down the artists that he felt had done great work on his songs. He wanted to put the brakes on that negativity and that's what he did....essentially he just wants people to give this cd a listening chance before they respond to it ; that's the gist of what I got from when I spoke to him last night.

Do you mean in terms of his facebook page or in general?  Because the negativity on this forum since the announcement of the collaborators has been running rampant pre and post Wilson's reaction.  In my humble opinion the only thing Brian Wilson speaking up did was add indignant voices to the already negative voices.  Indignant because these voices are now upset that a musician is saying they can't have a negative opinion on his career.  To draw a comparison: It's kind of like when Shane Victorino and Jimmy Rollins told the Phillies fans that they shouldn't boo them.  Victorino got run out of town and Rollins still gets booed if not more so.  

Ray, do you think Brian wrote that Facebook post himself or did he have help with it? I have a hard time with him using the "f*** with the formula" verbiage.

John.  Totally in terms of his FB page . The only Smiley Smile he is aware of is the album !

You have to find a better comparison than Philadelphia fans.....they booed Santa Claus at an Eagles game !

Nail on head.

If any musician of Brian`s stature were to go on Facebook and read comments about music that hasn`t been released yet then it wouldn`t be the smartest move.

Mikie; I doubt very highly he sat at a keyboard  and banged out the message but I am certain those were his sentiments....the Wilson's know Zooey Deschanel pretty well , for example . She followed the UK "SMiLE" tour and in my recollection even babysat the girls one night, so I guess it bothered the hell out of him that someone he really likes, who did a great job on his record , was getting slammed .  My two cents anyway.

There was negativity on the Blue board, as well, but Brian and his management don't post there much. He has more followers and page hits on Facebook, so that's where they decided to take a stand. I do give them credit for not deleting the negative fan posts on either Facebook or the blue board.

I think it's tougher for classic artists and people who represent them to calibrate social messaging.  It's just such a different, more rough and tumble world from what older artists grew up experiencing.

As I said earlier, I think you are an invaluable part of this board Ray, and I hope you stick around.

However, I gotta ask if he knew Zooey so well, why he called her "Joey" during that MySpace thing. He seemed like he hadn't a freakin' clue who she was, even though she is a reasonable big movie star and a pretty popular musician.

May have just been Brian being Brian, plus it was a number of years ago...

I think he was just slurring.

I think he started to say Joey , and tried to segue into Zooey , and it came out somewhat slurred.

This is the kind of information that helps fans NOT be negative about things.  Again, it comes down to ignorance or a lack of information on our part.

If I hear he's doing songs with people (again, he doesn't know Lana's name, mispronounced Zooey's) that he's not familiar with, it raises the hair on the back of my neck thinking the guy's being forced to do ARTISTIC work with people he has no connection to.


Now that more info comes out (He's fairly close to Zooey, etc.) that will help change the negative perceptions.

I don't think his management should care one way or another, for a couple reasons.


1. Those of us who have a problem with it are diehard fans.  I will buy an album of Brian snoring as long as it's less than about 50 bucks.  I'll certainly buy whatever this album turns out to be.

2. None of the fans are saying "Brian doesn't have it anymore" they're saying "Brian's so much better than this". 













If Brian wants successful, popular songs that get radio play, philosophically he should understand that something like that is a challenge.  If everything that flowed from that harmonious pen of his went straight to #1 that wouldn't be much of a thrill would it?  If everybody swooned over every drop of news on duet partners, where's the challenge in that?

What would be a thrill is, info leaking about a new album.  All of the die hard fans poo poo'ing it.  The album coming out, blowing everybody away, and having a #1 hit. 

Much more satisfying... I hope he wows us again and this isn't GIOMH but more like "That's why God made the Radio".

That's what I've been saying for several days on this thread. Stressing the ignorance part of it. Same with the film. And unfortunately a lot of what the man has been doing recently has been subject to this ridiculous criticism based more on ignorance than any real notion of what's been going on as the projects move through the production process, and what will be a finished product.

When it happens here, it's sad but predictable, as there are agendas beyond the actual projects. But when it showed up on Facebook where people need to "like" the page, it's assumed they're fans willing to be a bit more open-minded before criticizing something in the works, and a few comments obviously struck a nerve which led to a strong reply. Then a thank you in return, posted today.

We've had people like Ray post here before, and they don't post any more, because some half-wit tries to be smart, or thinks they know more than he does.

Surely, you aren't referring to me Andrew? I think I have contributed a studied opinion, but have also wisely deferred to people like you and Ray who I understand are bound to know a whole lot more.

When you say "Rock album!" then it doesn't happen..

then you say "Jeff Beck" then Jeff goes around saying it won't happen...

Then you wait a year and a half, and start popping up what seems to be half-assed collaboration ideas....

It's no surprise that things get a negative response, by some.

WTF is going on over there?

That's the ignorance I'm talking about, and it's not the fans fault that they're uninformed, if they're trying to promote an album by releasing info they're doing a pretty piss-poor job of it.

AGD: Surely you're talking of yourself, then?  ... I can't think of a better example of 'thinks they know more than he does' ?  You're being hard on yourself, however, you're not a half-wit.

No, of course not - just a general observation badly couched. I was thinking of Steve Gaines in particular.

Ron: you keep thinkin' it's what you're good at.