"Even when it comes to his father, Murray Wilson, who also happened to be the first manager of The Beach Boys and the man who deafened Wilson with his fist, Brian Wilson doesn’t mull over his misfortunes."

But in his book Brian writes, "When I was out playing in my neighborhood, between my house and another, a kid hit me in the head with a lead pipe.  His name was Seymour, I think, either his first or last.  The feeling was just shock at first, but the next day I realized I couldn't hear as well out of my right ear."   

 

Which book are you referencing? But beyond that, were you really more interested in this detail than the inspiring tone of the review and the book?

And right here is why some of you are not getting the fact that this place has double standards. Your very response to Jim Murphy's post is indeed cheer leading a book you yourself admit have not read. Yet you have been taking part in nitpicking conversations in numerous threads about Mike's book. Murphy's question is legit. Why is it you need to jump in with a "who cares about details it's Brian's book isn't that enough". My paraphrasing of course but that is what you are saying. Oh.... I see... it's only OK to point out discrepancies in Mike's book in comparison to what's been printed or said in the past but not Brian's. I always though Brian's dad hit him with a board, or guess it was a kid with a pipe, or I guess it was his dads fist, or......get my point? ...probably not. And before you jump the gun and label me a Mike apologist or creep or kokomo head or whatever label "you people" (an expression you have used describing those that would have a different viewpoint from yourself) go ahead and bore yourself reading anything I've posted here over the years. Seen Brian 5 times solo, only seen Mike at the c50 since Carl died.

There is a little click on this site that has become tiresome and is chasing off decent fans and posters aside from those being banned.

Also, that thread about some idiot claiming we should all be killed has no freaking business in GENERAL ON TOPIC DISCUSSION. Explain how that is relevant to Brian or the Boys music? That would be like if say a band member from one of the "camps" was convicted of a serious crime, something ugly like rape, and people were talking about it here.....that would be wrong correct.... that would be.....oh wait a minute, forget it.

Hack that Landy was, it still seems weird to me that he would stand by that diagnosis for so long had he not believed it.

had he not believed that it would make him very wealthy

I'll grant you that...yes. Landy was a slime and the big picture for him was getting rich at Brian's expense. That said, didn't anyone question Brian being diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic? That is a serious and major mental disorder. It's not like he was diagnosed with having pneumonia when he really only had a bad cold. I'm pondering this because it seems to me anyone close to Brian seemed to have accepted Landy's diagnosis even if he was off. If that is the case, then it would clear up a lot of the debate about Brian's state all the way back into the '60's. The debates about Brian just being a drug casualty and such.

I paged through Leaf's Beach Boys book this morning and was surprised to see the paragraph about Landy diagnosing Brian as a paranoid schizophrenic based on Marilyn's description of Brian's behavior. The thing that jumped out was that this was Landy 1 during 15 big ones era. To the point of this post...I guess I assumed Landy considering Brian a paranoid schizophrenic happened during the Landy 2 eightees. Can anyone shed light as to wether or not Landy stood by his "diagnosis" of Brian during their entire relationship together? Hack that Landy was, it still seems weird to me that he would stand by that diagnosis for so long had he not believed it. Didn't anyone else question it?  Carl, Dennis...anyone or everyone else believe Landy's diagnosis accurate?

Not the whole side but I would say LA album. Side two starts with a 10 minute disco song...huh?

Of course we all know the history, but tying into the Cars thread, disco was dead and New Wave was where it was at so the Beach Boys put out a disco song, 2-3 years too late. They really did continue to blow it.

Yes, I think The Cars are one of the great pop/rock bands of all time

Yes...that is what I'm realizing. Top notch band on many levels. Seem to be overlooked and kind of forgotten. The box set has all six of their albums remastered  and its under 50 bucks so that's probably the way to go.

I've done a search and can't find a thread about The Cars.....so....

I never paid them much attention in the hit making years but have been listening to their greatest hits a lot lately and looking back at old footage.....this band was fantastic. "Let's Go" and "Just What I Needed" are two masterpiece hit single gems on par with many of the Beach Boys greatest from their early days. As Ben Orr is long gone, I regret not having seen them live in their time. The entire band really clicked. New Wave at it's best.

One question for any fans out there....do you recommend the new remastered box set? I only have a 2 cd greatest thing from a while back and am thinking of at least getting their first two albums. Thoughts...? Thanks.

Schizoaffective Disorder and Schizophrenia are separately defined in the DSM with different signs.

Right...but many of the symptoms are similar if not identical. Complicating things further, a patient can see three Psychiatrists and is liable to get varying diagnosis and treatment methods.

In any case my two cents on this thread is not intended to debate medical definitions and such. One last time.....it should not be that hard to get a factual answer as to if Brian heard voices well before taking LSD or not. 1963 as mentioned in the film? 1964? 1965? Debating what extent drugs played a roll or cause and affect is a separate issue. You would think Brian or someone would know.

And further...try and get a clear definition of the difference between schizoaffective and paranoid schizophrenic. Most of the symptoms are identical. I doubt the upcoming book will clear things up, but you would think that Brian or someone very close to him would be able to say with some certainty when the voices indeed started. Some of the stuff regarding Brian and the Beach Boys is in fact pretty cut and dried, but no one ever seems to take the time to clarify.

Lorren Daro is full of sh*t and everything he said had to be taken with a grain of salt.

At least Brian thinks so, anyway.

I guess you have to use your own judgement.  VDP backed him up.  What is his reason for lying exactly?

This idea has been beat to death already. Only a handful of people believe Darro's claim. Furthermore, if Brian himself who has always BS'd people indeed told Darro's he faked it that still means nothing. Parks or Darro or anyone else isn't gospel because they hanged with Brian for a short spell and did LSD with him. Like I said in my longer post further up....you're talking about people with their own bias. They don't even have to be "lying" per say, more like spinning their possible roll in Brian losing it.

It's not that it doesn't add up so much as that people "that were there" have their own bias and also didn't and don't know everything just because they spent some time with Brian. No one that tripped with Brian is going to want to admit that maybe it was a really stupid thing to do.

The real problem is that Brian for most of his life, has said things in interviews that contradict other things he said or eventually will say. I just watched the 76 or 77 interview with Brian talking about the Love You album and how he did a lot of cocaine and it messed up his mind and caused him to spend all that time lying around his room. This interview, at a time when MANY people have attested to the fact that he was constantly asking people for cocaine. There is one person that posts here frequently, that knew Brian on a personal level and gives the impression that Brian never really did a lot of drugs. Well he did. That does not mean by any stretch that his mental problems were a result of street drugs. I don't think they were. I also believe the drugs that really caused additional permanent problems for Brian outside his mental issues were the ones Landy fed him.

Trying to determine when Brian first started having auditory hallucinations is actually a very interesting topic. One of those things that sort of really does matter for anyone interested in historical accuracy.

1. He has always stated that the voices began a week after taking LSD

2. It's highly likely that the '1963' claim in the L&M film came from Ledbetter

In response:

1. Really? What are your sources?

2. What would be the point of that, or further, why claim someone heard voices earlier than they did?

Street drugs were bad for Brian and I believe they are bad for almost anyone. Still, I find it very hard to believe that his LSD trips caused him to hear voices. Even if there is evidence of Brian saying that himself at some point, it does not mean it to be true.

 “Marcella.” Tell me what you remember about tracking that song.

Right, one of my favorites, yeah. Carl did a great job, he was really good. “Marcella,” y’know, I’m gonna tell ya, I was having mental difficulties during that time and I didn’t even know if the guys got in the studio and recorded ‘Marcella’ without me on it! So, I said, ‘I wanna be on it!’ So I overdubbed my voice on it.


Hands down that's my favorite line from the interview. Cool stuff like this would not have ended up in a run of the mill interview by a non-fan of Brian's. Very Cool!

I merged the threads and changed the title of it at that time to make it obvious that this was the thread to discuss the issue.

 

Fair enough. A few days ago when a couple of members here that are connected to music media expressed concerns that this remain in "on topic" I was totally in their camp.  I give you credit for moving several foolish threads off of that page in response.

However, and this this is just a however....I also read here that Guitarfool is a moderator at Brian's site as well. If so that seems like a conflict of interest. I don't even know if that's fact or fiction, but if true, in light of some other recent drama around here, it seems not quite right. And before I get a lecture from Guitarfool that's not my intent nor to imply conspiracies. It's just that negativity regarding Brian in any form is not tolerated on Brian's site and I hope that is not being factored into this forum for any reason. I have read outright insulting horrible stuff about Al  looking like death and have to endure OSD and his derangement syndrome concerning Mike on a daily basis.

Myself...I have little negative to say about Brian, but I sincerely hope an open forum will remain an open forum even if an unpleasant black eye comes from Brian's camp. Had someone in Mikes band, messed up, I'm pretty darn sure we would be up to 60 pages by the usual suspects on how once again Mike tarnished the brand. And I'm sure it would not be in the sandbox.

For the record I agree with and respect MANY of Guitarfools posts. Same way I felt about Andrew.

What legitimate reason was there to change the title of this thread? I feel a rant concerning censorship coming on that may end up in myself getting banned from this forum. This mind you is coming from someone that usually stays away from stirring the ----

Don't rant and get banned! I think it was just due to two separate threads being combined. I think it was apolitical.

Really? You think or know? i don't see where that was stated. I was done commenting on this subject itself but I'm seeing a bigger picture that seems amiss.

What legitimate reason was there to change the title of this thread? I feel a rant concerning censorship coming on that may end up in myself getting banned from this forum. This mind you is coming from someone that usually stays away from stirring the ----

I suggest people stop referring to articles or Scott's side of the "story". He was convicted and found guilty. Any reasonable person knows cases like this almost never end with a conviction if the accused is not guilty. The trials never get that far. The truth here really sucks but people need to face it.

Egohanger1966 posted a Facebook rant from a friend of Bennett's yesterday that was almost immediately deleted. Well it was there long enough for me to read and it was pathetic. Stating he committed no crime and he loves his wife and the usual crap people spew when someone they care about screws up big time. I don't doubt the guy loves his wife but that has NOTHING to do with having been really stupid and breaking the law. And enough about alcohol. It's an excuse for people with bad tendencies and judgment to act terrible.

People of stature are rarely convicted even when they are blatantly guilty and deserve it. I HATE that this happened, but I'll be damned if I'm going to rationalize an ugly event because I like the guys work and he has a ton of talent. I don't intend to post again about this as it will just start sounding too judgmental.

As far as love and mercy goes.....that's between the people truly involved in this case. Forgiveness is between them. I'm just a fan of some music by a person involved.

As stated earlier, this thread is the definition of on topic. Member of Brian's band, an incident on Brian's tour, etc., etc.

Agreed...as ugly as it is. We got to what, 80 pages of Pamplin's nonsense and this is dumped into the box after a few days. Not Brian's fault or anyone else associated with the band but this IS a big deal. Scott was not just a "former keyboard player". He has been a huge part of Brian's band all along and cowrote a lot of songs. He's all over every live performance with Brian out there including the c50 stuff. I actually lost sleep last night thinking about this.

Since Bennett has posted here is he now banned too?

Just so this thread. Somewhat speechless. Also trying not to let emotion weigh in but after sifting through a lot of these pages...a couple of points.

Sorry, but Bennett is a pig. The truth can hurt but it is what it is. No excuses, no " yes but "....a freaking creep and a criminal. Nice people are funny when they are drunk, creeps are ugly when they are drunk.

Some of you mentioned suing the casino. That is moronic. Bennett is the rapist. Some of you also mentioned his life being ruined. Don't count on it. Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, Bill Clinton....just a few other pigs that come to mind and millions of people overlook the fact that they are pigs because of other more noteworthy accomplishments.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again.  Imagine "Love You" performed or even re-recorded without all the dated synths.  Instead bring in Brian's band and a more complete production.  If I remember correctly, even Carl Wilson once remarked that the album was "unfinished" or something along those lines.

That would turn it from an album that is half loved and half hated by the fanbase into an album that's hated by the entire fanbase. The songs just wouldn't work with a mid-60's style backing band. The lyrics are childlike and silly, and the synths add to that feeling. Adding Brian's backing band would make the ridiculous lyrics stick out like a sore thumb.

I would substitute fan base for hardcore fan base. The average BB fan that was in the audience at say a C50 venue has no idea the album Love You even exists. It pretty much went straight to the discount bin when it was released. Performing this entire album live would not delight too many people so it won't happen.

Rab, Maybe calm down and re-read what my gripe is. I never said Andrew didn't foul up or compared the perceived trolls to him. The guy is done here and yet the same "annoying" people carry on business as usual. Never satisfied, never happy unless they are "annoying" people.

It's like the movie sparticus!

Yes! One of the best scenes!

When is this going to stop? Seriously...when? Ever? AGD could be a pain and if he crossed the line so be it but seriously....years and years of this from the usual suspects. Explain to me what the difference is between this stuff and listening to two 9 year olds laughing at each others fart noises. Several people have already tried to politely point this out in this very thread and on it will go. For better or for worse at least Andrew was a walking encyclopedia of Beach Boys history and had a reason for being here.

[no interruption whatsoever]

My personal hope is that after a sufficient cooling-off period, the mods and the owner of this board will consider a probationary reinstatement for AGD. Of course that is up to them, but that's my wish. On a scale of 1-10, Andrew's ability to suffer fools was hovering at about 0.4, but the key is to ignore 90% of the aggravating stuff that happens here.

As for "faking it" and doing good work after, this is indeed a murky point. But consider there was no interruption whatsoever in Brian's output after this incident. The problem is that shading the incident around words that kinda sorta cover the description of the episode ("nervous breakdown," "panic attack," "meltdown," "hysterical episode" et al) leaves us all a bit too much wiggle room to argue "definitively" through the type of "geometric logic" that got Humphrey Bogart's character into so much trouble in THE CAINE MUTINY.  Let's await further information/testimony and keep in mind that the obsessive search for "truth" sometimes has an unintended impact, which results in a great researcher being banned from a place where his contributions have been vast.

It could also be reasoned that Brian's output continued at the same pace because an immediate stressor was removed( the road) and another one soon would be.  (Murry). However the problems resurfaced because other stressors exacerbated the condition.  Treating the symptoms not the cause is a good explanation.

Well said.

Agree 100% about the stressor being removed allowing him to continue. I also agree there was no apparent interruption in output after the plane incident, however there would soon be a huge decline in output. Also, much more time went into albums like Pet Sounds, Smile, the GV single. The time frame and cost of GV is ample evidence of a man going in a direction beyond a perfectionist.

So, the thing Brian wanted out of the way, touring was out of the way and things in the studio didn't exactly become smoother.

Then Brian's life is made "easier" by bringing the studio to him right in his own house, again things didn't exactly become smoother.

Then with each album over the next few years Brian is less and less involved, thankfully the Beach Boys really blossomed and made some fine records.

Then Brian seemingly washes his hands of the whole thing over the next few years until a quack is brought in to save him and get him to do what everyone thinks he loves and wants to do again.

So in '76 a man with a shockingly gruff voice is finally recording again on 15BO and then Love You but it sure as heck does not seem to be the same guy anymore. He wasn't.

Nothing fake or exaggerated is needed. There is/was a clear trajectory that started after the plane incident. Street drugs and a number of other things contributed to Brian's life unfolding as it did but it is my firm belief that the biggest factor was the mental health issue plain and simple.

If Brian had truly been incapacitated by the pressure and had a true "nervous breakdown," he would have been much less able to embark on a period of his greatest artistic growth--which is precisely what occurred when he was able to get off the road.

...

Your point about people who break down not being an out-and-out mental case actually supports the notion that someone would engineer such an episode.

While I don't disagree with much of your post, it is certainly the case that people have authentic panic attacks that don't hinder their ability to proceed afterward with their work. That someone did good work after a panic attack is no evidence that the panic attack was 'faked' or 'engineered' or whatever.

When Brian openly states that he faked the airplane incident, I'll believe him. Until then I will stick with the status quo. There is way too much nutty speculation on this board and I just found the AGD ban thread today so I'm at a loss as to figure out the fact from fiction here anymore.

Thanks. Pretty bad mistake for someone claiming to be such a fan of the album.

I listened to the whole thing again and from a composition standpoint I can understand the praise but that's all. The production, vocals, lyrics......the whole thing sounds like a demo.

Sorry, but there would have been no reason to fake breaking down on a flight in a convoluted attempt to get out of touring. The entire premise reeks of conspiracy nonsense. Brian simply would have DEMANDED that he was going to stay home without PRETENDING to be on overload and ready to crack. He was under immense pressure and it got to him, and on the flight band mates witnessed it.

That paragraph from Darro also uses the term SUPPOSED mental illness. I find that totally idiotic as well. Having a breakdown in flight or mental problems does not mean one is some kind of flat out mental case. Most mental illness is subtle....the kind of thing that would escape most people that are not around the affected person day in and day out. And even then, it can come off as just a kind of mild personality disorder rather than something more serious.

Lastly, not that the film is 100% accurate, but since Brian LOSING IT is kind of a huge main theme in the narrative, and Brian and Melinda and Darian are on record saying they got it right it would be more than a little far fetched to one day learn that we were all duped. Speaking of films, even the crappy TV movie that had Mike's blessing had the airplane scene did it not? I don't think L&M would have included a scene that in reality was just a ploy.